I use the M10-R for personal work, but still have an M10-P as well. You are right about the color and contrast. The R relies like most modern cameras a lot more on post processing. It exposes more on the highlights. With the M11, Q2 and SL2 Leica even introduced highlight weighted metering. That makes the cameras a bit more ‘fool-proof’ in terms of exposure. The R files also look a bit flatter because Leica dialed-down contrast a bit. Again, relying on adding that in post, like most modern hi-res cameras. With the M10 Leica attempted to emulate the images of the legendary M9 CCD sensor, but they found out that in the meanwhile many started to prefer the more ‘modern’ and ‘cool’ look. Fortunately, it’s still easy to do in post. What shouldn’t happen though are the frequent lock-ups. My R doesn’t have that (nor the P by the way) and it also doesn’t have a reputation for it like the M11. Make sure you have the most recent firmware and if that doesn’t help, have your camera inspected.
Thanks so much for sharing all of that. I totally get what you’re saying, and completely agree. Definitely more modern. While the added latitude is nice for editing and color grading, I do really like the M10 colors and contrast more. But I’m getting more comfortable with the M10R files. Good news, the camera hasn’t locked up on me since the initial issues. Did a new video about it, so check it out! Thanks again, Jacob!
Really interesting. Also doing a lot of research on these cameras... the M10-R is looking the most promising except for battery performance. But this is the first time I hear someone not happy with the look. Consensus seems to be the better sensor alone is worth the M10-R over the M10. But the look of the files is super important to me... so thanks for the info.
I think if I had the M10R first, I would say the M10 is green shifting and metering darker haha. But it just happens to coincide with my personal preferences, and I'll admit that. The bigger issue is the freezing.
I absolutely agree with you! I went from M10 to M11, was hoping that this will be the perfect camera... But I discovered the same issues as you. M11 has ugly magenta looking WB, colors from M10 was so lovely. And of course bunch of freezes that I had in just few months of using it. I used M10 for 2 years without any issues. Now I'm thinking about getting M10 again...
Oh sorry to hear that. Well I thought M11 will be THE M camera for me. I had M8,M9,M10 before. Unfortunately this one is the less reliable, so far. Can't wait for your M11 impression. @@davidherring
Congrats of getting the M10R. I was using the M10P then switched to M10R Black Paint & Silver chrome. Below are my experience to share with you. (Please note that the M10 is similar to M10P). 1. Color Science - The color science between M10/M10P & M10R are different. For me, I prefer the color of M10(P) as I thought it is more Leica look. After using for a while, I am get used to the new color science. BUT a lot of users prefer the M10R color, because it is flat and more easy to do color adjustment. (I have read a lot of reviews of M10R and most reviewers thought this is an advantage.) 2. Metering - If you are using rangefinder, the camera is using center-weighted metering regardless of what metering you choose. Only when using live view, then the Spot / Multi-field metering is in effect. In my experience, the metering are the same. Please note that the base ISO of M10(P) is ISO 160 and M10R is ISO 100. It may result that the M10(P) is +1/3 EV. 3. Freezing Problem - I don’t encounter this problem when using M10P & M10R. Maybe I seldom use Live view to shoot. My GUESS is the SD card problem. I would suggest you to try other brand SD card. Personally, I am using Sandisk and Sony, either USH I or II, I don’t have this problem. For me, the ONLY thing I don’t like the M10R is the noise. The M10(P) images are more clean even at ISO 8000. Some of my M10R images have a lot of noise even at ISO 800. Have discussed with Leica but could not find out the reason why. For normal situation, the M10R image is usable at ISO 6400 or lower. It is understandable as the sensor is more megapixel. (A lot of reviews said the M10R high ISO performance is better than M10(P).😔) Hope the above information is useful for you. Cheers!
This is awesome! Thanks so much for sharing. After spending some time with the M10R, I'm starting to feel better about it. I did set it up a bit different to get the exposure dialed in more to my liking, but you're 100% right about its ability to be graded. It's much more dynamic when I edit...I'd say 2x more than my M10 files. I still like the M10 straight out of the camera, but definitely starting to prefer working with the M10R files. I'm probably going to drop a video in a week or two about the current state of things, which are much better than what I reported in this first impressions video.
First complaint I’ve read on the noise on R compared to predecessors. I’ve had / have 6 digital M’s and the R is far superior to any of them. I would cap M240 series bodies at 1600, but would try to avoid anything over 800. I wouldn’t let my M10 go above 3200. I cap the R at 12,500, where it’s completely useable. I found this hard to believe when doing initial research, but it easily holds true. Add the increased dynamic range, better highlight recovery and quieter shutter and I couldn’t be happier. I didn’t find the exposure example of the window useful given that the R photo had the window in much more of the frame. Regardless, I don’t use in camera meters (find reflected light useless), so can’t comment otherwise.
I’ve never used an M10 but for similar reasons to yours I added a second hand M10r to my M9P. I also work professionally, but mostly as a documentary photographer. Re the color,, now I usually move 10 points to the green and add about 500 degrees. I didn’t experience any freezes, but this week I had to send an S3 to Wetzlar due to freezes.
Hi Dave, just a quick response as someone with an M10r after having most of the previous digital Ms. I love it! it is easily the best digital m I have used, I much prefer the colours, the highlight roll off and and the files seem more natural. I didn't like the M10 files, to me they looked like my work cameras (sony, canon) but the M10r are different. I have had it for 18 months without a single lock up. I say stick with it and you will be rewarded!
Thanks for sharing! I’m sticking it out. Adjusting my mind from the M10 haha. You’re right about the range. Definitely seeing improvement in the highlights.
I would hate to be dependent on digital imaging. I have a Sony A7Rii, which I use for a few technical applications in the studio, but the extraordinary quality of the best films is where it's at for me. More resolution? .. ;-) I use classic Hasselblad with superb Zeiss lenses. Even more resolution? .. Linof 4x5, 5x7 .. 👌 That said, I value your review on these M10 models. Thanks for this video. 🤝
I think one of “problems” with buying a Leica M is that a lot of owners don’t really use the camera all that much. That is why you find so many mint condition bodies for sale (even though an M shows its wear much quicker than a Nikon). As a result of these cameras barely being used, the word about problems like the camera freezing, doesn’t get talked about enough. I had freezing issues with the M9 and M240, but not the M10. I suspect you’ll always get those issues with the M10-R and your solution will be to just remove the plate and pop out the battery in an instant. That is what I used to do with the M240. Sucks….but it worked.
I'm still a novice and just bought a Q3 and sold my Sony gear as I wanted to take more considered artistic shots and not Snap when travelling or out on the street shooting. I think you need to reduce the variables by using the exact same lens when comparing as I am sure that that will have some bearing....Let me know how that goes I am hanging with you !
I have a TL2 and been thinking about an M camera. I've been kicking around the m240, m10, and m11. I've ruled out the m240 because it's just getting too old for me (I plan to keep the camera for at least 5-10 years and the m240 is already around that old). The m11 just seems to have WAY too many issues going on, especially for the amount it costs new. It's unacceptable. The m10 is the one that seems to be tried and true, a real workhorse. Any of the used m10's that are out there and come up for sale, they've obviously been used and put through their paces so any issues on that particular body would have arisen already over the years. Awesome video and thanks for sharing it. Also, if it makes you feel any better a few days ago I used my old Seagull 205 film rangefinder that has NO built in meter. Had to do it all by hand meter lol!
have you done a review of the Leica 50mm summilux line up? older and newer versions? I'm considering the version 2 or 3 to be used with the Leica MP. Thinking of staying away from the clinical extra sharp newer lenses.
I have an M10-D and I've experienced a freeze on it but narrowed it down the the Sony metal Tough SD cards which work perfectly fine in my Sony cameras and my Ricoh GR3. When I use my SanDisk cards I've never had an issue. It wasn't the live view because well there isn't one. It didn't happen all of the time, I could go out shooting for a day and sometimes it would never happen, other times it would happen once or twice in the day. I don't know what makes the difference since they have similar speeds but I've never had the freeze with my SanDisk cards. Thanks for the info on the M10-R I've been considering it as a second body :)
Thank you for your sharing, I'm following up on this. Btw, I own a M11 and SL2-S and really love them both. From the shots I personally have the preference for M10's result. Again, thanks for your sharing. I enjoy your channel.
few things: 1. you need to use the same lens on both cameras. Coded Leica lenses are corrected by the camera. also same f stop on different lenses migh give different brightness so really, test with the same lens on both cameras. 2. My Leica Q used to freeze on me with Lexar cards, I swithched to Sandisk and never again... also had freezing ussues on my M9 with cards that were too fast for the old M9, so do check with other cards.
Love your channel and subscribed. I can't help but notice that you are taking photos with your blue light in the background, I'm pretty sure some of this blue light affects your photos, and affects them differently on different sensors. Furthermore, when you mix lights as you have in your room (blue and yellowish), you will get unpredictable results. I think each camera is trying to deal with the blue-yellow mix differently.
The lesson (re needing to crop) should not be that you need to change the camera (for higher pixel count) but that you need to change your distance from your subject - i.e. that you need to learn to previsualize the image as you shoot and position yourself accordingly. Your eye/viewfinder should do the cropping real time.
This is so nerve-wracking! I just found your channel and this video and now I can't wait to watch the follow-up. I was planning on getting a M10 R, but maybe I should go for the M10 instead?
I was pretty happy with the M10-R, and I believe that I actually prefer it over the M11. The M11 that I borrowed froze very often, even with the latest 1.6.1 firmware. In the past I also had a shutter get stuck closed on an SL2-S, which was fortunately repaired under warranty by Leica. It was discouraging waiting about 3 months to have the SL2-S repaired, but Leica does have good customer service and I was happy that the camera was repaired under warranty especially considering that I purchased it from 6ave and not a Leica Retail store. Regarding the differences that you noticed in the colors, I agree - I do like the images of the M10 better than the M10-R (while watching in 4k 2160p on my desktop monitor. The color differences that you picked up are real, but I do feel that the benefit that outweighs the color difference is the ability to crop and change your compositions in post-production with the M10-R, which I think is especially helpful when using a rangefinder.
Congrats on your M10 purchases :) I have the same feeling with my Q2M. Somehow I like to shoot with the Leica much more then with my Sony cameras lately. Since you posted an update video on this topic, I'll check it out now - leaving a comment here for the algorithm :D
The strange metering, files sizes (although adjustable) + greens and yellows on the M11 and M10r sent me back to the M10-p. 2 beater M10-ps for work and play, and I'm all good. Cheers!
I am not sure if this is useful to you, or if you are still around to read it, but I think much of your problem could be mitigated by switching profiles and metering patterns. You can select center weighted metering, which is how all film Leicas worked, as well as up to the M9 I believe. You will have to be conscious of where you point it, but it will be more consistent if you are good at identifying neutral grays. Since there is no AF, focus wherever you need to, and then point the camera at a neutral grey and recompose. It's quicker and more reliable than it sounds. Regarding the profiles, I came from the S006 and SL2 to the S3, which shares a sensor with the M10R. I also did not like the color. I found that part of the problem was Adobe. I started using Cobalt Imaging profiles which are a lot more accurate and neutral than Adobe's version, and I greatly preferred them to even my own custom profiles. If you would like to keep the camera but try another look, I would encourage you to try those two suggestions and see if it helps.
The freezing is the exact reason that I sold my SL2. Walking around on my own, no big deal. But multiple times it froze up on me during jobs, in front of clients, in front of talent. Holding up shoots, breaking the flow of serious and sensitive portrait sessions, etc. Just unacceptable. So disappointing to me as otherwise it was truly my favorite digital camera I have ever used. I'm using an A7RV now myself, which I'm not stoked on. Always felt like Sony's were more of appliances than cameras, but it works...it works.
I bought an M-10R secondhand like you and had major freezing problems. I could not pin it down like you have. I think it is related to SD cards but Couldn’t definitively say that. I ended up sending it to Leica and they replaced the logic board in it for free. Since I got it back, I have had no issues. I would reach out to Leica. It took 4-5 weeks to get it back.
I'm hoping this isn't the case. The local Leica shop believes its card related. All of my cards are the same... Lexar 1667x. And I've tried multiple cards and the issue is the same.
There is concern of too many megapixels that affect the outcome. Many experts agree the sweet spot is 24 megapixels for a digital camera. One video about the Leica M10-R showed the dissatisfaction of a buyer actually returning it whilst the camera store agreed that amount of pixels actually made the photos too digital compared to one having 24 megapixels...!
Sorry to here about you freezing issues on the m10r. I have both the R and the M10M, the R for over a year now and the M10M for over 6 months and neither have frozen on me and I shot both almost every day. Hope you can find a resolution as the R is a good camera and the details you can pull from the shadows is outstanding. However highlights blown can’t get back the detail. Knowing that, there are times that I will override the meter settings and blow the highlights.
I must say that I agree with you. I much prefer the colours on the M10 file. I think the light meter works differently on the different Leica camera. My Leica CL digital tends to overexpose, so a lot of photos without adjusting some of the settings and underexposing a bit may look a bit too washed out for my personal taste. After using that camera for well over a year and a half I know know how to achieve the type of exposure I like. I would also like to have a higher resolution camera, but I must admit that the image quality coming out of the crop sensor of my Leica CL digital is pretty awesome. Regards Manu from the UK
all digital M cameras did freeze at some point, very very annoying and a shame that leica didnt fix it once and for all. that was the reason why i sold my M-P type 240 back in 2015-2016, it just happened so many times. and just as i sold it, leica released a new firmware, where many people said it fixed the issue. later my M10M did freeze a handful of times then never again and my M10R never froze so far
Just found your Video, I don't own am10 but I think people think that more mg pixes are going to be better. I like to punch in on my photos too.. but found that unless you want to make a large print it's not going to matter. Back in 2005 I had the Olympus E330 with a 50mm lens. I Shot my Daughter's Wedding. Gave her the card and she had enlarged photos made . I was Shocked to see how good they look. 8mg pixel camera. Just use the M10 .
I think it really comes down the the photographers needs and work flow. Artistic principles aren't a one-size-fits-all, and while some people are fine with lower megapixels, others need massive sensors. At the end of the day, it's all about what works for the user.
I am not seeing what you are seeing in the two images, one from M10, the other from M10R. But I think that what you are seeing is much more important than what I am seeing. Never neglect, disregard, or devalue how you feel as you use your tools and produce your images. Thanks for taking us along on this journey!!
Question please. I also really enjoyed Leica digital m’s. I currently use an m240. I shoot in like a concert situation at my church. I really need more iso performance. I currently shoot at around iso 1600, f2, 30th sec. What upgrade should I get? M10, m10r, or 11. Thank you and love the channel!!
I have an original M10 and the M10M. I think the M10M has frozen on me a couple of times in two years, so you may have just been unlucky. Blown highlights for me is the curse of digital cameras so metering that alerts us to that very real danger makes sense to me. Totally understand the enthusiasm for Ms, though. Nothing comes close, once you come to love the whole process, feel and what it brings to one's work.
Thanks for sharing. I haven’t had issues focusing with the M11 and 90 or 135 lenses. It’s more muscle memory and experience I think. You work at it, you’ll get it.
I have been weighing up between buying the m10, m10p and m10r. Enjoyed the initial comparison. I would stick with the m10 for me. I like not editing too much and if the m10 gets you there quicker it is more enjoyable for me. I just need to see now if there is freezing issues with the m10p. Looking forward to the updates.
Fortunately, I'm feeling better about the M10R. It stopped freezing... not sure why... but it's been fine since I made this video. I don't know where you're located, but if you're near a Leica store, visit them and introduce yourself, and get to know the team there. They definitely made me feel much better and confident that this camera would be good for the long haul, and if not, they'd take care of it.
Had freezing issues with the M10-R new I bought and ultimately sent it back. Was using san disk 128GB class 10 cards. Went and bought the M11 finally. The lighter weight and extra battery life and usb-c charging did it for me. Have to say though, loved the color science of the M10-R much more then the M11… And camera shake is real in the M11… the little things show up even more then in the M10-R. Trade offs with every “upgrade”.
Honestly, any camera would be fine, but you would stylistically determine what you want in a lens selection. If you want tight, compressed images, go with longer lenses. If you want a big and wide scene, then go with a wider lens. When I shoot in very big mountain landscapes, I often use a 16-35 to get it all. But other times, I like putting a 135 on my camera for high detail and punched in landscapes.
Good luck with solving the issue with freezing. Alas, it’s not something uncommon with M cameras. I had the same problem reversed, my M10 froze and the R never did. I got an M11 and it occasionally froze, now I have another one since few weeks and nothing so far. It’s like a finicky girlfriend, never a sure thing!
Oof, the M10 shot looks great SOOC, has more of that Leica look. I'm currently deciding on what to get, this has made me think more towards the M10-M or just the standard M10.
I own an M10-D and honestly at first I didn't like that the M10 is slightly warmer than my previous M9 and M 240, I personally like cooler colours in general, but slowly the M10 colours grows on me, and I do think that there is something about the M10 colour that makes the images pops more. I wanted to get the M10 R as my second body, but when I tried it, it does exhibit a slightly different tone to its colour rendering that I ended up not getting one. So I do agree with your point. I think the M11 colours is a tad more closer to the M10.
@@davidherring I just found your channel now and a'm literally watching the rest of your videos now haha. Great contents BTW, I always love to see more contents about Leica cameras from a user's perspectives. Please keep em coming. Subscribed!
Hi Dave, do you have the latest firmware? And where does Q2 fit in between this two cameras? If i would be you, i would sell both Leicas, and save for the M11. Take care!
Hey Patrik, yes, running the latest firmware. Also running excellent SD cards. Tried 3 different cards and different batteries, and it's still freezing. Took it out this morning and same thing... froze after 14 shots. As to where it fits... I treat my Q2 as a run-and-gun with the autofocus, and a wide 28mm lux lens. It's for fast past, family stuff with the kids running around, or other times where I just want autofocus but retain the Leica look and feel.
Never had that problem with mine, just tried it with the same suspect settings and had no issues over several attempts to recreate your problem. Feels like you have a faulty camera.
Thanks for sharing. Spent today at my local Leica shop and we couldn’t reproduce the problem, but they gave me some things to try and were so helpful. Can’t beat Leica SF / Camera West!
Sell M10 and get M8 to go with your M10R…best of both worlds and gives bigger focal length options for your lens collection. This is my kit and I love it.
I’m curious, do you expect that every sensor in every camera will render color exactly the same? Also, regarding the freezing issue, this is a used camera. Is it possible that the freezing issue is why it was for sell? By the way, I have owned a M10R for nearly 2 years and it doesn’t have a freezing issue.
I definitely expect the same sensor to have the same colors across a brand. Uniformity in a system is a big part of why someone shoots that brand. Leica SL, Q, and M cameras all have a similar look, more dependent on the lens than the sensor. I would have expected the M10R to have the same colors as the M10, which just more dynamic range (1 stop I believe) and more resolution. Not everyone is dishonest in selling used gear. The seller is local to me, and my local Leica shop knows him and I and vouch for both of us. He didn’t sell it because it was freezing. I believe him when he says that. Just because we’re having two different experiences with our M10R doesn’t make things right or wrong. Glad yours has gone two years without freezing. Mine didn’t go through two hours. ✌🏽
@@davidherring I agree the color science of a brand should be similar. However, the M10 and M10R have the same processor but different sensors which could account for the slight difference in color. For example, my M10R files are not exactly like my SL2S files. Oh by the way, I didn't say it never froze, I'm sure it has but not to the point that I can recall a specific incident. I wouldn't say any device with software operating on a processor has never frozen. That said, freezing should not be systemic or recurring problem. Good luck but I highly doubt that problem will cure it self.
To this day you hear a lot of people mentioning "the Leica look" in reference to what they are getting out of their new(ish) ditital Leica cameras. And they may even display some photos as if to buttress their claims. Leica look? Really? And how exactly is it distinguishable from the "look" produce-able with any number of other digital cameras? I know what the "Leica look" referred to years past and have seen little if any evidence of it in recent years, indeed decades. Over this time, photos taken with newer Leica cameras (i.e. digital bodies) have exhibited less and less and now virtually no "Leica look." This is, I believe, largely a consequence of the processing of images by digital cameras (vs film). Increasingly, certainly post M8/M9, Leica digital cameras have become indistinguishable from other digital cameras in the "look" of the images they produce. Another point to be mindful of, and this is really THE point, the so-called "Leica look" was actually associated with the results relatively few photographers were able to 'squeeze' out of their Leica cameras . . . actually, their Leica/Leitz lenses (and, indeed, alternatively branded cameras/lenses). The vast majority of images taken by lesser souls with these cameras/lenses were indistinguishable from the vast majority of images taken with alternatively branded cameras/lenses. Bottom line, the "Leica look" is and always has been produced more by the photographer and less by the equipment, be it Leica equipment or otherwise. Using a Leica camera/lens will not in and of itself gift you the "Leica look."
This bright window compositions were totally different and would easily account for the metering differences you mention. You talk about punch, but you don’t say whether you are shooting jpegs or RAW? More punch in jpegs, and maybe the settings or processing algorithms differ between the two cameras. Also the sensors are not the same, so it would be unlikely the color gamut is exactly the same. On the final point, my M10R does not freeze up, and never has. So likely you need service on that camera. All in all I don’t find these comparisons to be very well done. Sorry.
Who the heck pays for an M and then uses liveview? The whole point of using a rangefinder camera is to use the rangefinder to focus. Unless you are a freaking zone focusing hip shooting monster, of course. Anyways it’s not your fault. It’s Leicas fault that they went so low as to include a liveview. What the heck… they should’ve not had a screen on it either.
It’s pretty amazing how loyal Leica customers are! Every single digital m camera up to the m11 has had serious issues that would have seriously damaged any other camera company. But I do find the photography very interesting from people who use the cameras regularly
Yep my M11 bricked up and was replaced. However, it now works as designed is very special, the images are great. My hit rate is also great, it makes you think about what you’re doing far more, maybe that’s why the pictures are often great.
@@bertyboy7126 I don’t want anyone to have issues with there cameras and am glad it didn’t happen to you. That said from the m8 sensor issues and the one today having locking up issues it’s been pretty serious problems.
Was it revealed from the person you bought the M10R from that it froze frequently ? I had an M262 never a problem now a Q2M never a problem. Return the M10R the person who sold it knew it froze thats why they sold it In your M10/M10R comparison were you using the same lens? I love Leica but they are like a high maintenance woman temperamental and Leica service is not the best
It wasn't disclosed, and he said he never had the issue. He's been very friendly and helpful and is committed to working out whatever needs to be done. I'm trying every possible solution before returning it, but it feels like it may be inevitable. Yes, it was the same lens... the Leica 50mm Summicron V5.
@@davidherring I was thinking of getting an M10 used for around 5K I'd return that camera whoever you bought it from is full of it. It was freezing and they sold it give it back to them. They will wind up trading it in at retail and getting hosed. Just curious how much you paid? VS buying from a Leica store?
Ah, the megapixel trap. Megapixels don't matter anymore - not for a loooooong time and not unless the work requires output in different aspect ratios for different formats with heavy crops. So many people think they need 40 megapixels or more - but they don't. They just don't. It's a myth, a marketing lie. Even the 18MP of the Leica M9 were more than enough. Most people should be fine with the 10MP of the M8. There are physical limits to increasing the megapixel count on a given sensor size and expect more optical resolution, due to diffraction. The M11 is already pushing that boundary where diffraction kicks in at f8 on the M11. If I had an M11, I would probably set it to the 36MP pixel binning setting and be done with it. Regarding the metering differences, that's curious. When not using live view, both cameras do center weighted metering off the white and grey shutter curtain blades. Side by side, the blades are exactly identical, so any difference would be in the meter electronics or firmware. Only in live view do both cameras apply any different meter setting, e.g. multi/evaluative or spot. When using the rangefinder, take your metering with the center portion of the frame, then set your exposure settings and recompose. I use the M10 and the MP (analog). I did compare both meters and the M10 meters >95% the same as the MP when compared in manual metered mode - as it should. The MP's shutter curtain has a perfectly round, white circle in the center, rather than full horizontal stripes across the entire shutter curtain. Not sure if/why they chose to make changes with the M10R. On the freezing issues: good thing I opted for the M10... :) Since the M10P, M10M and M10R are all build on the M10P platform, it would explain why all three models have the freezing issues.
Thanks for sharing. I do think megapixels have a place when cropping. Not necessarily in print anymore. And certainly not in terms of quality of images. But the ability to crop is why I use high megapixel cameras.
This was maybe the most rubbish Leica related video I have ever seen. Learn to manual exposure. I can't believe someone call himself a "pro" and makes auto exposures.
I use the M10-R for personal work, but still have an M10-P as well. You are right about the color and contrast. The R relies like most modern cameras a lot more on post processing. It exposes more on the highlights. With the M11, Q2 and SL2 Leica even introduced highlight weighted metering. That makes the cameras a bit more ‘fool-proof’ in terms of exposure.
The R files also look a bit flatter because Leica dialed-down contrast a bit. Again, relying on adding that in post, like most modern hi-res cameras. With the M10 Leica attempted to emulate the images of the legendary M9 CCD sensor, but they found out that in the meanwhile many started to prefer the more ‘modern’ and ‘cool’ look. Fortunately, it’s still easy to do in post.
What shouldn’t happen though are the frequent lock-ups. My R doesn’t have that (nor the P by the way) and it also doesn’t have a reputation for it like the M11. Make sure you have the most recent firmware and if that doesn’t help, have your camera inspected.
Thanks so much for sharing all of that. I totally get what you’re saying, and completely agree. Definitely more modern. While the added latitude is nice for editing and color grading, I do really like the M10 colors and contrast more. But I’m getting more comfortable with the M10R files. Good news, the camera hasn’t locked up on me since the initial issues. Did a new video about it, so check it out! Thanks again, Jacob!
Really interesting. Also doing a lot of research on these cameras... the M10-R is looking the most promising except for battery performance. But this is the first time I hear someone not happy with the look. Consensus seems to be the better sensor alone is worth the M10-R over the M10.
But the look of the files is super important to me... so thanks for the info.
I think if I had the M10R first, I would say the M10 is green shifting and metering darker haha. But it just happens to coincide with my personal preferences, and I'll admit that. The bigger issue is the freezing.
I absolutely agree with you! I went from M10 to M11, was hoping that this will be the perfect camera... But I discovered the same issues as you. M11 has ugly magenta looking WB, colors from M10 was so lovely. And of course bunch of freezes that I had in just few months of using it. I used M10 for 2 years without any issues. Now I'm thinking about getting M10 again...
I have an M11 coming for a trial, as my M10R is heading to Leica for an electrical problem. I'm actually really excited to try it.
Oh sorry to hear that. Well I thought M11 will be THE M camera for me. I had M8,M9,M10 before. Unfortunately this one is the less reliable, so far. Can't wait for your M11 impression. @@davidherring
Congrats of getting the M10R. I was using the M10P then switched to M10R Black Paint & Silver chrome. Below are my experience to share with you. (Please note that the M10 is similar to M10P).
1. Color Science - The color science between M10/M10P & M10R are different. For me, I prefer the color of M10(P) as I thought it is more Leica look. After using for a while, I am get used to the new color science. BUT a lot of users prefer the M10R color, because it is flat and more easy to do color adjustment. (I have read a lot of reviews of M10R and most reviewers thought this is an advantage.)
2. Metering - If you are using rangefinder, the camera is using center-weighted metering regardless of what metering you choose. Only when using live view, then the Spot / Multi-field metering is in effect. In my experience, the metering are the same. Please note that the base ISO of M10(P) is ISO 160 and M10R is ISO 100. It may result that the M10(P) is +1/3 EV.
3. Freezing Problem - I don’t encounter this problem when using M10P & M10R. Maybe I seldom use Live view to shoot. My GUESS is the SD card problem. I would suggest you to try other brand SD card. Personally, I am using Sandisk and Sony, either USH I or II, I don’t have this problem.
For me, the ONLY thing I don’t like the M10R is the noise. The M10(P) images are more clean even at ISO 8000. Some of my M10R images have a lot of noise even at ISO 800. Have discussed with Leica but could not find out the reason why. For normal situation, the M10R image is usable at ISO 6400 or lower. It is understandable as the sensor is more megapixel. (A lot of reviews said the M10R high ISO performance is better than M10(P).😔)
Hope the above information is useful for you.
Cheers!
This is awesome! Thanks so much for sharing. After spending some time with the M10R, I'm starting to feel better about it. I did set it up a bit different to get the exposure dialed in more to my liking, but you're 100% right about its ability to be graded. It's much more dynamic when I edit...I'd say 2x more than my M10 files. I still like the M10 straight out of the camera, but definitely starting to prefer working with the M10R files. I'm probably going to drop a video in a week or two about the current state of things, which are much better than what I reported in this first impressions video.
Hi, Galen, I also use m10R, thy the new Lightroom ai denoise, it's really help.
First complaint I’ve read on the noise on R compared to predecessors. I’ve had / have 6 digital M’s and the R is far superior to any of them. I would cap M240 series bodies at 1600, but would try to avoid anything over 800. I wouldn’t let my M10 go above 3200. I cap the R at 12,500, where it’s completely useable. I found this hard to believe when doing initial research, but it easily holds true. Add the increased dynamic range, better highlight recovery and quieter shutter and I couldn’t be happier.
I didn’t find the exposure example of the window useful given that the R photo had the window in much more of the frame. Regardless, I don’t use in camera meters (find reflected light useless), so can’t comment otherwise.
@@clawdawg7248 thanks for sharing!
I’ve never used an M10 but for similar reasons to yours I added a second hand M10r to my M9P. I also work professionally, but mostly as a documentary photographer. Re the color,, now I usually move 10 points to the green and add about 500 degrees. I didn’t experience any freezes, but this week I had to send an S3 to Wetzlar due to freezes.
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Dave, just a quick response as someone with an M10r after having most of the previous digital Ms. I love it! it is easily the best digital m I have used, I much prefer the colours, the highlight roll off and and the files seem more natural. I didn't like the M10 files, to me they looked like my work cameras (sony, canon) but the M10r are different. I have had it for 18 months without a single lock up. I say stick with it and you will be rewarded!
Thanks for sharing! I’m sticking it out. Adjusting my mind from the M10 haha. You’re right about the range. Definitely seeing improvement in the highlights.
@@davidherring good luck Dave
100% agree.
I would hate to be dependent on digital imaging. I have a Sony A7Rii, which I use for a few technical applications in the studio, but the extraordinary quality of the best films is where it's at for me. More resolution? .. ;-)
I use classic Hasselblad with superb Zeiss lenses. Even more resolution? .. Linof 4x5, 5x7 .. 👌
That said, I value your review on these M10 models. Thanks for this video. 🤝
Thanks for sharing!
Honestly, if you just disclosed that you only had m10r for the day right at the get go, I believe many people wouldn’t click into this.
Thanks for the feedback.
I think one of “problems” with buying a Leica M is that a lot of owners don’t really use the camera all that much. That is why you find so many mint condition bodies for sale (even though an M shows its wear much quicker than a Nikon). As a result of these cameras barely being used, the word about problems like the camera freezing, doesn’t get talked about enough. I had freezing issues with the M9 and M240, but not the M10. I suspect you’ll always get those issues with the M10-R and your solution will be to just remove the plate and pop out the battery in an instant. That is what I used to do with the M240. Sucks….but it worked.
Yeah, there are def collectors out there. That said, I’ve never met one. All the Leica owners I know use their cameras everyday.
Got an M10p never s problem. Got a M10r never a problem. Im retired and out several times a week every week taking pictures. Leicas are very reliable.
I'm still a novice and just bought a Q3 and sold my Sony gear as I wanted to take more considered artistic shots and not Snap when travelling or out on the street shooting. I think you need to reduce the variables by using the exact same lens when comparing as I am sure that that will have some bearing....Let me know how that goes I am hanging with you !
Thanks for sharing! I definitely think there is wisdom and growth with one camera and one lens.
I have a TL2 and been thinking about an M camera. I've been kicking around the m240, m10, and m11. I've ruled out the m240 because it's just getting too old for me (I plan to keep the camera for at least 5-10 years and the m240 is already around that old). The m11 just seems to have WAY too many issues going on, especially for the amount it costs new. It's unacceptable. The m10 is the one that seems to be tried and true, a real workhorse. Any of the used m10's that are out there and come up for sale, they've obviously been used and put through their paces so any issues on that particular body would have arisen already over the years. Awesome video and thanks for sharing it. Also, if it makes you feel any better a few days ago I used my old Seagull 205 film rangefinder that has NO built in meter. Had to do it all by hand meter lol!
My Rolleiflex has no meter so I get it! I agree… the M10 is very solid and stable. Love shooting it!
I shoot with Nikon and Lexar cards are prone to problems. I started using San Disk and no issues at all
I’ve only had issues with San Disk. Now I use Lexar haha
@@davidherring that's funny
have you done a review of the Leica 50mm summilux line up? older and newer versions? I'm considering the version 2 or 3 to be used with the Leica MP. Thinking of staying away from the clinical extra sharp newer lenses.
I have an M10-D and I've experienced a freeze on it but narrowed it down the the Sony metal Tough SD cards which work perfectly fine in my Sony cameras and my Ricoh GR3. When I use my SanDisk cards I've never had an issue. It wasn't the live view because well there isn't one. It didn't happen all of the time, I could go out shooting for a day and sometimes it would never happen, other times it would happen once or twice in the day. I don't know what makes the difference since they have similar speeds but I've never had the freeze with my SanDisk cards. Thanks for the info on the M10-R I've been considering it as a second body :)
Thanks for sharing, Matt! It hasn’t frozen on me since this initial issue so hoping it resolved itself and won’t happen again.
@@davidherring Good to know. I'm actually watching your "I Was Wrong ..." video now lol it came up lower in the search results.
@@mattblasi8796 Haha RUclips must prioritize complaints over confessions
Thank you for your sharing, I'm following up on this. Btw, I own a M11 and SL2-S and really love them both. From the shots I personally have the preference for M10's result. Again, thanks for your sharing. I enjoy your channel.
Thanks for sharing and I appreciate the kind words!
few things:
1. you need to use the same lens on both cameras. Coded Leica lenses are corrected by the camera. also same f stop on different lenses migh give different brightness so really, test with the same lens on both cameras.
2. My Leica Q used to freeze on me with Lexar cards, I swithched to Sandisk and never again... also had freezing ussues on my M9 with cards that were too fast for the old M9, so do check with other cards.
Thanks for sharing!
Love your channel and subscribed. I can't help but notice that you are taking photos with your blue light in the background, I'm pretty sure some of this blue light affects your photos, and affects them differently on different sensors. Furthermore, when you mix lights as you have in your room (blue and yellowish), you will get unpredictable results. I think each camera is trying to deal with the blue-yellow mix differently.
Thanks for the feedback!
The lesson (re needing to crop) should not be that you need to change the camera (for higher pixel count) but that you need to change your distance from your subject - i.e. that you need to learn to previsualize the image as you shoot and position yourself accordingly. Your eye/viewfinder should do the cropping real time.
Thanks for the tip!
This is so nerve-wracking! I just found your channel and this video and now I can't wait to watch the follow-up. I was planning on getting a M10 R, but maybe I should go for the M10 instead?
I loved the M10R, but ultimately ended up with the M11.
@@davidherring No worries, I took over yesterday. ;)
@@ruthlobner8114 M10P is far enough
@@davidherring I went down again to the M10P. but always return to M8 🙂
I was pretty happy with the M10-R, and I believe that I actually prefer it over the M11. The M11 that I borrowed froze very often, even with the latest 1.6.1 firmware. In the past I also had a shutter get stuck closed on an SL2-S, which was fortunately repaired under warranty by Leica. It was discouraging waiting about 3 months to have the SL2-S repaired, but Leica does have good customer service and I was happy that the camera was repaired under warranty especially considering that I purchased it from 6ave and not a Leica Retail store.
Regarding the differences that you noticed in the colors, I agree - I do like the images of the M10 better than the M10-R (while watching in 4k 2160p on my desktop monitor. The color differences that you picked up are real, but I do feel that the benefit that outweighs the color difference is the ability to crop and change your compositions in post-production with the M10-R, which I think is especially helpful when using a rangefinder.
Thanks for sharing!
@@davidherring No problem! I actually just updated my comment as I had initially responded before finishing the video. Keep up the great work!
Congrats on your M10 purchases :)
I have the same feeling with my Q2M. Somehow I like to shoot with the Leica much more then with my Sony cameras lately.
Since you posted an update video on this topic, I'll check it out now - leaving a comment here for the algorithm :D
Thanks! I agree… shooting Sony way less these days.
The strange metering, files sizes (although adjustable) + greens and yellows on the M11 and M10r sent me back to the M10-p. 2 beater M10-ps for work and play, and I'm all good. Cheers!
Thanks for sharing!
I am not sure if this is useful to you, or if you are still around to read it, but I think much of your problem could be mitigated by switching profiles and metering patterns. You can select center weighted metering, which is how all film Leicas worked, as well as up to the M9 I believe. You will have to be conscious of where you point it, but it will be more consistent if you are good at identifying neutral grays. Since there is no AF, focus wherever you need to, and then point the camera at a neutral grey and recompose. It's quicker and more reliable than it sounds. Regarding the profiles, I came from the S006 and SL2 to the S3, which shares a sensor with the M10R. I also did not like the color. I found that part of the problem was Adobe. I started using Cobalt Imaging profiles which are a lot more accurate and neutral than Adobe's version, and I greatly preferred them to even my own custom profiles. If you would like to keep the camera but try another look, I would encourage you to try those two suggestions and see if it helps.
Great comment. I’m going to check those out! Thanks for sharing.
The freezing is the exact reason that I sold my SL2. Walking around on my own, no big deal. But multiple times it froze up on me during jobs, in front of clients, in front of talent. Holding up shoots, breaking the flow of serious and sensitive portrait sessions, etc. Just unacceptable. So disappointing to me as otherwise it was truly my favorite digital camera I have ever used. I'm using an A7RV now myself, which I'm not stoked on. Always felt like Sony's were more of appliances than cameras, but it works...it works.
I hear you. I use an A7RV as well for commercial work, and it kind of feels like a computer with a lens. Doesn’t really inspire me.
I bought an M-10R secondhand like you and had major freezing problems. I could not pin it down like you have. I think it is related to SD cards but Couldn’t definitively say that. I ended up sending it to Leica and they replaced the logic board in it for free. Since I got it back, I have had no issues. I would reach out to Leica. It took 4-5 weeks to get it back.
I'm hoping this isn't the case. The local Leica shop believes its card related. All of my cards are the same... Lexar 1667x. And I've tried multiple cards and the issue is the same.
There is concern of too many megapixels that affect the outcome. Many experts agree the sweet spot is 24 megapixels for a digital camera. One video about the Leica M10-R showed the dissatisfaction of a buyer actually returning it whilst the camera store agreed that amount of pixels actually made the photos too digital compared to one having 24 megapixels...!
Thanks for sharing. In my experiences, the *actual* expert is the user who uses what they need for the jobs they have.
I had the M11 sold it and buying an M10 P, it’s the best one Leica made. The colors for my taste are the best.
The M10P is an incredible camera and of the 10 line, it’s definitely the best!
@@davidherring yes, but in general the M10 is great. The latest is not always the best. Thanks for the videos
Sorry to here about you freezing issues on the m10r. I have both the R and the M10M, the R for over a year now and the M10M for over 6 months and neither have frozen on me and I shot both almost every day. Hope you can find a resolution as the R is a good camera and the details you can pull from the shadows is outstanding. However highlights blown can’t get back the detail. Knowing that, there are times that I will override the meter settings and blow the highlights.
Thanks Thomas! I’ve been shooting with no issues for a few months myself. Looks like it just had to work itself out haha.
I must say that I agree with you. I much prefer the colours on the M10 file. I think the light meter works differently on the different Leica camera. My Leica CL digital tends to overexpose, so a lot of photos without adjusting some of the settings and underexposing a bit may look a bit too washed out for my personal taste. After using that camera for well over a year and a half I know know how to achieve the type of exposure I like. I would also like to have a higher resolution camera, but I must admit that the image quality coming out of the crop sensor of my Leica CL digital is pretty awesome. Regards Manu from the UK
Thanks for sharing! Exposure is definitely a tricky thing on Leica sensors, but when you find your sweet spot it’s perfect!
all digital M cameras did freeze at some point, very very annoying and a shame that leica didnt fix it once and for all.
that was the reason why i sold my M-P type 240 back in 2015-2016, it just happened so many times. and just as i sold it, leica released a new firmware, where many people said it fixed the issue.
later my M10M did freeze a handful of times then never again and my M10R never froze so far
My M11 funny enough has only frozen on me one time, but I know so many people have had countless issues with that camera.
Just found your Video, I don't own am10 but I think people think that more mg pixes are going to be better. I like to punch in on my photos too.. but found that unless you want to make a large print it's not going to matter. Back in 2005 I had the Olympus E330 with a 50mm lens. I Shot my Daughter's Wedding. Gave her the card and she had enlarged photos made . I was Shocked to see how good they look. 8mg pixel camera. Just use the M10 .
I think it really comes down the the photographers needs and work flow. Artistic principles aren't a one-size-fits-all, and while some people are fine with lower megapixels, others need massive sensors. At the end of the day, it's all about what works for the user.
I noticed many people who use Lexar SD cards have the freezing issue. Never happened to me with SanDisk.
Yeah I’ve heard some of the same.
I am not seeing what you are seeing in the two images, one from M10, the other from M10R. But I think that what you are seeing is much more important than what I am seeing. Never neglect, disregard, or devalue how you feel as you use your tools and produce your images. Thanks for taking us along on this journey!!
Thanks for sharing Bert! Always appreciate your comments!
Question please. I also really enjoyed Leica digital m’s. I currently use an m240. I shoot in like a concert situation at my church. I really need more iso performance. I currently shoot at around iso 1600, f2, 30th sec. What upgrade should I get? M10, m10r, or 11. Thank you and love the channel!!
M11 if you can swing it. Battery life and clean performance at 1600.
I have an original M10 and the M10M. I think the M10M has frozen on me a couple of times in two years, so you may have just been unlucky. Blown highlights for me is the curse of digital cameras so metering that alerts us to that very real danger makes sense to me. Totally understand the enthusiasm for Ms, though. Nothing comes close, once you come to love the whole process, feel and what it brings to one's work.
Thanks for sharing! Agreed, blown highlights are a pain. As tech gets better hopefully this improves as well.
我覺得旁軸連動測距的精度很多時候不足以支撐那麼高的像素，特別是涉及大光圈和長焦鏡頭
Thanks for sharing. I haven’t had issues focusing with the M11 and 90 or 135 lenses. It’s more muscle memory and experience I think. You work at it, you’ll get it.
I have been weighing up between buying the m10, m10p and m10r. Enjoyed the initial comparison. I would stick with the m10 for me. I like not editing too much and if the m10 gets you there quicker it is more enjoyable for me. I just need to see now if there is freezing issues with the m10p. Looking forward to the updates.
Fortunately, I'm feeling better about the M10R. It stopped freezing... not sure why... but it's been fine since I made this video. I don't know where you're located, but if you're near a Leica store, visit them and introduce yourself, and get to know the team there. They definitely made me feel much better and confident that this camera would be good for the long haul, and if not, they'd take care of it.
I've had an M10-P for around 3 years now, it's never locked up on me. I've always found it to be really reliable. Hope this helps.
Had freezing issues with the M10-R new I bought and ultimately sent it back. Was using san disk 128GB class 10 cards.
Went and bought the M11 finally. The lighter weight and extra battery life and usb-c charging did it for me.
Have to say though, loved the color science of the M10-R much more then the M11… And camera shake is real in the M11… the little things show up even more then in the M10-R. Trade offs with every “upgrade”.
Trade offs for sure. Thanks for sharing!
Dave, love the video! What camera would you recommend for long distance landscape shots?
Honestly, any camera would be fine, but you would stylistically determine what you want in a lens selection. If you want tight, compressed images, go with longer lenses. If you want a big and wide scene, then go with a wider lens. When I shoot in very big mountain landscapes, I often use a 16-35 to get it all. But other times, I like putting a 135 on my camera for high detail and punched in landscapes.
Good luck with solving the issue with freezing. Alas, it’s not something uncommon with M cameras. I had the same problem reversed, my M10 froze and the R never did. I got an M11 and it occasionally froze, now I have another one since few weeks and nothing so far. It’s like a finicky girlfriend, never a sure thing!
Thanks for sharing! It's interesting to hear everyones experiences.
Oof, the M10 shot looks great SOOC, has more of that Leica look. I'm currently deciding on what to get, this has made me think more towards the M10-M or just the standard M10.
I love the idea of a monochrome camera, but I don’t know if I could do it. But I also always look at them online haha.
@@davidherring no I feel you. It’d be great for my night time events but I love colour too much. Maybe one day we will have enough space for both 👀
I own an M10-D and honestly at first I didn't like that the M10 is slightly warmer than my previous M9 and M 240, I personally like cooler colours in general, but slowly the M10 colours grows on me, and I do think that there is something about the M10 colour that makes the images pops more. I wanted to get the M10 R as my second body, but when I tried it, it does exhibit a slightly different tone to its colour rendering that I ended up not getting one. So I do agree with your point. I think the M11 colours is a tad more closer to the M10.
Thanks for sharing! One day I may swap over to an 11, but I’m getting comfortable with the M10R now. New video about all of this tomorrow!
@@davidherring I just found your channel now and a'm literally watching the rest of your videos now haha. Great contents BTW, I always love to see more contents about Leica cameras from a user's perspectives. Please keep em coming. Subscribed!
Following up on this
Hi Dave, do you have the latest firmware? And where does Q2 fit in between this two cameras?
If i would be you, i would sell both Leicas, and save for the M11. Take care!
Hey Patrik, yes, running the latest firmware. Also running excellent SD cards. Tried 3 different cards and different batteries, and it's still freezing. Took it out this morning and same thing... froze after 14 shots.
As to where it fits... I treat my Q2 as a run-and-gun with the autofocus, and a wide 28mm lux lens. It's for fast past, family stuff with the kids running around, or other times where I just want autofocus but retain the Leica look and feel.
Never had that problem with mine, just tried it with the same suspect settings and had no issues over several attempts to recreate your problem. Feels like you have a faulty camera.
Thanks for sharing. Spent today at my local Leica shop and we couldn’t reproduce the problem, but they gave me some things to try and were so helpful. Can’t beat Leica SF / Camera West!
Sell M10 and get M8 to go with your M10R…best of both worlds and gives bigger focal length options for your lens collection. This is my kit and I love it.
Thanks for the idea!
I agree with you that the m10 pic feels better.
Shooting the M10R today trying to change my mind.
You sound like a Sony shooter that was handed a leica M.
Ok
Question from the floor, are you using the exact same lens on both bodies? ✌️
Yep, always in videos like this.
Bigger Pixels = A More Film-like Look. Unless you’re clients are noticing a lack of detail go with your gut and forget about the pixel peeping.
Thanks for sharing!
I’m curious, do you expect that every sensor in every camera will render color exactly the same? Also, regarding the freezing issue, this is a used camera. Is it possible that the freezing issue is why it was for sell? By the way, I have owned a M10R for nearly 2 years and it doesn’t have a freezing issue.
I definitely expect the same sensor to have the same colors across a brand. Uniformity in a system is a big part of why someone shoots that brand. Leica SL, Q, and M cameras all have a similar look, more dependent on the lens than the sensor. I would have expected the M10R to have the same colors as the M10, which just more dynamic range (1 stop I believe) and more resolution.
Not everyone is dishonest in selling used gear. The seller is local to me, and my local Leica shop knows him and I and vouch for both of us. He didn’t sell it because it was freezing. I believe him when he says that.
Just because we’re having two different experiences with our M10R doesn’t make things right or wrong. Glad yours has gone two years without freezing. Mine didn’t go through two hours. ✌🏽
@@davidherring I agree the color science of a brand should be similar. However, the M10 and M10R have the same processor but different sensors which could account for the slight difference in color. For example, my M10R files are not exactly like my SL2S files. Oh by the way, I didn't say it never froze, I'm sure it has but not to the point that I can recall a specific incident. I wouldn't say any device with software operating on a processor has never frozen. That said, freezing should not be systemic or recurring problem. Good luck but I highly doubt that problem will cure it self.
To this day you hear a lot of people mentioning "the Leica look" in reference to what they are getting out of their new(ish) ditital Leica cameras. And they may even display some photos as if to buttress their claims. Leica look? Really? And how exactly is it distinguishable from the "look" produce-able with any number of other digital cameras? I know what the "Leica look" referred to years past and have seen little if any evidence of it in recent years, indeed decades. Over this time, photos taken with newer Leica cameras (i.e. digital bodies) have exhibited less and less and now virtually no "Leica look." This is, I believe, largely a consequence of the processing of images by digital cameras (vs film). Increasingly, certainly post M8/M9, Leica digital cameras have become indistinguishable from other digital cameras in the "look" of the images they produce. Another point to be mindful of, and this is really THE point, the so-called "Leica look" was actually associated with the results relatively few photographers were able to 'squeeze' out of their Leica cameras . . . actually, their Leica/Leitz lenses (and, indeed, alternatively branded cameras/lenses). The vast majority of images taken by lesser souls with these cameras/lenses were indistinguishable from the vast majority of images taken with alternatively branded cameras/lenses. Bottom line, the "Leica look" is and always has been produced more by the photographer and less by the equipment, be it Leica equipment or otherwise. Using a Leica camera/lens will not in and of itself gift you the "Leica look."
Thanks for sharing.
This bright window compositions were totally different and would easily account for the metering differences you mention. You talk about punch, but you don’t say whether you are shooting jpegs or RAW? More punch in jpegs, and maybe the settings or processing algorithms differ between the two cameras. Also the sensors are not the same, so it would be unlikely the color gamut is exactly the same. On the final point, my M10R does not freeze up, and never has. So likely you need service on that camera. All in all I don’t find these comparisons to be very well done. Sorry.
Thanks for sharing!
UHS-IIはメーカー推奨されていません。
Thanks for sharing
Who the heck pays for an M and then uses liveview? The whole point of using a rangefinder camera is to use the rangefinder to focus. Unless you are a freaking zone focusing hip shooting monster, of course. Anyways it’s not your fault. It’s Leicas fault that they went so low as to include a liveview. What the heck… they should’ve not had a screen on it either.
Cool
It’s pretty amazing how loyal Leica customers are! Every single digital m camera up to the m11 has had serious issues that would have seriously damaged any other camera company. But I do find the photography very interesting from people who use the cameras regularly
Ha yeah, any other brand I'd throw up a peace sign and move on! But I am very loyal to Leica. Proven heritage and excellent gear...when it works.
Yep my M11 bricked up and was replaced. However, it now works as designed is very special, the images are great. My hit rate is also great, it makes you think about what you’re doing far more, maybe that’s why the pictures are often great.
Great way to summarize the Leica experience!
owend just about all m leica cameras and never had one single issue
@@bertyboy7126 I don’t want anyone to have issues with there cameras and am glad it didn’t happen to you. That said from the m8 sensor issues and the one today having locking up issues it’s been pretty serious problems.
Why would you wanna apply a lut to onscreen lightroom footage in which you're doing critical color stuff...
No LUT on the screen recording.
Ah okay, guess I misunderstood this one, I was just wondering what was going on@@davidherring
Was it revealed from the person you bought the M10R from that it froze frequently ? I had an M262 never a problem now a Q2M never a problem. Return the M10R the person who sold it knew it froze thats why they sold it In your M10/M10R comparison were you using the same lens? I love Leica but they are like a high maintenance woman temperamental and Leica service is not the best
It wasn't disclosed, and he said he never had the issue. He's been very friendly and helpful and is committed to working out whatever needs to be done. I'm trying every possible solution before returning it, but it feels like it may be inevitable.
Yes, it was the same lens... the Leica 50mm Summicron V5.
@@davidherring I was thinking of getting an M10 used for around 5K I'd return that camera whoever you bought it from is full of it. It was freezing and they sold it give it back to them. They will wind up trading it in at retail and getting hosed. Just curious how much you paid? VS buying from a Leica store?
@@walkingmeditation61 I don't mind being transparent about it. I got it for $5200. The local Leica shop has them used at $5995.
@@davidherring thats a nice price, I just don't trust EBay and what happened here is a good example of why. You have a nice CH. by the way
All the gear and no … 24mp is more than plenty to allow cropping.
Thanks for the comment.
The M10 is so much nicer.
I’ve gotten in a good rhythm with the M10R and feel good with it.
Ah, the megapixel trap. Megapixels don't matter anymore - not for a loooooong time and not unless the work requires output in different aspect ratios for different formats with heavy crops. So many people think they need 40 megapixels or more - but they don't. They just don't. It's a myth, a marketing lie. Even the 18MP of the Leica M9 were more than enough. Most people should be fine with the 10MP of the M8. There are physical limits to increasing the megapixel count on a given sensor size and expect more optical resolution, due to diffraction. The M11 is already pushing that boundary where diffraction kicks in at f8 on the M11. If I had an M11, I would probably set it to the 36MP pixel binning setting and be done with it.
Regarding the metering differences, that's curious. When not using live view, both cameras do center weighted metering off the white and grey shutter curtain blades. Side by side, the blades are exactly identical, so any difference would be in the meter electronics or firmware. Only in live view do both cameras apply any different meter setting, e.g. multi/evaluative or spot. When using the rangefinder, take your metering with the center portion of the frame, then set your exposure settings and recompose. I use the M10 and the MP (analog). I did compare both meters and the M10 meters >95% the same as the MP when compared in manual metered mode - as it should. The MP's shutter curtain has a perfectly round, white circle in the center, rather than full horizontal stripes across the entire shutter curtain. Not sure if/why they chose to make changes with the M10R.
On the freezing issues: good thing I opted for the M10... :) Since the M10P, M10M and M10R are all build on the M10P platform, it would explain why all three models have the freezing issues.
Thanks for sharing. I do think megapixels have a place when cropping. Not necessarily in print anymore. And certainly not in terms of quality of images. But the ability to crop is why I use high megapixel cameras.
Unless you print anything large. You can really see the difference between 16-20 and 50 mpix file on a 100x70cm print.
This was maybe the most rubbish Leica related video I have ever seen. Learn to manual exposure. I can't believe someone call himself a "pro" and makes auto exposures.
Hope you heal.