Jury Awards BJJ Student 46 Million Dollars after this Testimony
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- A jury awarded Jack Green 46 million dollars after suffering a catastrophic injury during a sparring session gone wrong. Rener gracie, internet personality and advocate for Gracie University, an online course where you can earn a blue belt in BJJ, gave this testimony to the courts to win Jack the case.
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"bjj is absolutely unsafe wtf guys"
Such a poetic way to summarize all our thoughts.
Anyone who calls it ‘the gentle art’ has clearly never been encouraged during a roll with elbows to their ribs or been knee-barred 😂
😂😂😂
@@ThePaulkitchen somebody said the leaning art would be a more fitting translation. You don't go against force with force, you lean. You go around the problem. Not like western wrestling, where you, you know, wrestle😅
But even that semantic argument should not hold a candle. Bjj became a sport and nowadays our top athlete is juicing so much he can't lift his arm above his head.😅
Every BJJ guy watching this video is currently injured, prove me wrong. I have a broken finger and a pulled rotator cuff as I type this.
I don't know about you guys, but if my coach broke my neck during casual sparring because he couldn't execute a technique safely, I'd be pretty angry...
but that student has experience already. i don't think it's the instructor fault. I think it's the student fault for angle his head whatever way so that it breaks like that
@@richardsavila I don't fucking know. I never said reddit. 🤷
@@IamG3XHe was a white belt don't lie
at least you know then that bjj works right?
thanks Norm
I thought he overstepped when he sold every member of the jury a Quickflip hoodie.
😂😂😂😂
LOL
😂😂😂
The sad part is I’m not entirely sure he didn’t do this 😂
😂
My old coach would purposefully partner the newer people with the more advanced practitioners for safety . I Never saw a newer person get injured with that pairing . It was almost always when it was two newer people .
Yep! You want to roll with more advanced people so that your mistakes get found out. Improper techniques can work at least semi-regularly on lesser skilled opponents.
Exactly it would be way more unsafe to just have two white belts going at it 😂😂😂
It's usually always white on white violence
Honestly the only reason you wouldn't would be to protect your more advanced students from injury. Spazzy white belt energy is far more likely to cause an injury to their training partner than vice versa.
Newbies are unpredictable and dangerous and sometimes you have to recognize that dealing with that crap isn't worth your gym fees.
I’ve only ever been injured by brown belts and a single blue belt.
“It’s actually industry standard to f*** your move up because you suck at jiujitsu.”
Gold! This definitely is industry standard!
Spot on.
However, in this case, being a black belt, and especially being an instructor, he definitely should know that such a move is a potential neck breaker, and not to perform it at all in a roll until you have it absolutely nailed in drilling. He also should know that any rolling partner might not know to expect it, or how to safely receive it. Even when I was a higher white belt, I would have inherently know that such a move is potentially highly dangerous.
This case is partly: shit happens in jits sometimes; and partly the instructor was definitely negligent. As for the humungous payment, well that's just situation normal in the US these days.
Ikr, that comment made me feel very industry compliant
The bright side of the whole tragedy is the large amount of awareness it created in the BJJ community to the SAFE way to perform that back take
@@keres993 Best channel ever. Jits AND wrestling. As a Jits guy, I especially love his wrestling vids, I learn so much from them.
And it only cost 46 million and someone’s spinal cord for that “awareness” 😅
There is no such a thing as a safe back take. It is your responsibility to roll with it safely and to defend yourself all time.
Usually people who are getting injured are spazzy white belts or unathletic people who couldn't perform a back roll without neck injury but came here bc the marketing machine conviced them that bjj is a safe and easy sport and even your grandma could do it and finnaly, there are people who are too egotistical to tap.
I'm so fed up with the stupid safety rules that only created to babysit theese people.
People who says pressure passing and knee on belly makes you a mat bully are the same ones that tries to kick and elbow my face during the warm up roll....
Theese people.just want to cry bully you too give up and let them win, or play a whole different sport with them with their made up ruleset...
I think it is unsafe to jerk your partners. There shold be a standard, that during rolling you are responsible for not making any power moves. Same with cranks, banana splits, scissor sweeps, heel hooks etc. Be aware that you can cripple somebody.
@@Ilja903 what is your argument? It is undetermined what do you mean by jerking or power move.
Is performing a sweep, a submission or a pass in a controlled manner a power move?
Why is a neck crank or a banana split is different from dislocating or breaking someone's shoulder?
I won't hospitalize anybody, i will let it go in time, but if you feal a little pain in your neck or elbow tomorow because you were too stubborn to tap, don't blame me. Also you are a shitty training partner....
Just please for the love of god don't go to competition or open mat. Or visit new gyms. Stay in the mall fitness center...
Hope your well out there. Cant wait to see you back 💪💪💪
The editing and entertainment value of these videos are improving at a ridiculous rate 😅 well done
I'm an ex-instructor under Rener, and I'm still in their system as a student. I agree with you. What Rener got right, what he got wrong (overreach), 100%. I left partly because he's all about money, and I just want to teach jj to my community without all the hassle and random payments. For example, you guys don't know, he invented a re-certification scheme which any instructor under rank of black belt has to pay money every 2 years to keep their license. I walked.
If you are not a black belt but an instructor under him it kind of makes sense considering you are using his name on the line. Many affiliates pay affiliate fees each year as is. More surprised you allowed to be instructor so early considering how many black belts there are today why not just get BB and be competent enough to teach all your own and using your own judgement learned and earned. Sounds like there’s little more to the story. 😅 either way props on being all about just for the love of teaching good to see.
What academy is not a business?
@@Zen-fe6oq Rener charges instructors $450 per month plus $5 per student. It's a lot of money. Plus, he just made up the recertification thing. It didn't exist for 10 years prior. That's 1000 intructors x $250, good chunk of money just out of the blue.
@@melahi7 so, greed is good?
@@ucraznmonkey the every 2 year fee is $250 for recert?
hope you guys are doing okay would love to see some content from you two just to know how you're doing 💜
What happened brother? Why dont you upload
Honestly I can't lie I thought rener did a pretty honest job.
Big point he emphasized was accidents don't exclude liability. When I'm rolling with my training partners it's my responsibility to make sure they don't get hurt especially if they're white belts.
Accidents happen, this was an accident, but it doesn't change the legality of the situation.
The reality of the situation is the black belt did something that injured the white belt, in addition to that it was done improperly, and in addition to THAT it was just generally one of the least safe options he had from turtle in order to obtain back control.
Unless, you sign a waiver.
If you own or work at a gym, you have to be an absolute tyrant about getting people to sign waivers.
@@shrimuyopa8117 signing a waiver doesn't give you freedom to do whatever you want to someone. You could have the best waiver out there, and still lose a case like this if you hurt somebody seriously.
Rener lied sbout industry standards
@@chrisadmaley Yah probably in California and with Rener Gracie hyping up the move to be more than it really was.
11 years training so far resulted in 3 surgeries, broken toes/fingers, countless sprains etc. i have competed but wouldn’t say I am a serious competition guy. We just train hard and injuries happen.
Rener is a born salesman, with all the good and bad that comes with it…
That said, I really enjoyed training at his school, and the environment they’ve created. It is definitely more of a hobbyist school, but the jiu jitsu knowledge there is definitely deep.
Life is better with Wiltse content ❤
I find it extremely hard to believe that a black belt instructor breaking a white belt's neck is not negligent in extreme
Ding ding ding ! Right on the money. Even if he was a blue belt or a purple belt, it's just not justified to be negligent at an open mat like that
The way you are saying it is not wrong, but the purpose of the move here is not to break someone's neck. If he neck cranked the hell out of this guy and paralyzed him, that would be totally different.
You have a supposedly white belt who has mat experience of a purple belt and competition experience. He was a tough roll. And often time the intensity picks up and injuries happen.
Plus it's not the first time they rolled.
Sad situation all around, but Rener Gracie is a snake in the grass. He is pathological liar and a scam artist. He reminds me of a classic cult leader, hits all the personality traits.
Have you guys seen the video? With the white belts grappling background I don’t think he had to take things easy on that student, the move really doesn’t look that dangerous
100% agree, there is reasons behind why white belts/lower belts are not allowed to use some technics.
@@octaviovazquez5397 it’s definitely dangerous. It’s definitely negligence. I have a hard time with the level of negligence they ruled on, though.
Control is the name of the game.
We need more videos!! Where you at!?
Pretty much agree 100%. I'm not on the Rener hate train but he seems like a very strategic choice for an expert witness considering his philosophy on white belts training differs from the entire rest of the bjj community, and he is very good at charismatically describing jiu jitsu to an uneducated audience.
well said. In fact this kind of indicates a mistake on the part of the defense attorney who did not choose a more sympathetic expert witness to counter Rener's statement. Obviously the defense could have chosen someone like Wiltse to counter Rener. Or maybe someone else who has a lot of competitive credentials.
Prosecution invited many experts but most of them said that it's just a freak accident and the professor shouldn't be liable. Rener is a snake in the grass.
@@AbsoluteADCC Source? I’m curious
@@PeterJames143 I think the defense used Clark Gracie
He should have used Danaher. Widely renowned as the world’s leading coach, articulate, deliberate, and includes this rolling back take as part of his FUNDAMENTALS series.
This happened in 2018. The verdict would have come out sooner, but have you seen how long it takes Rener to get to the technique in his videos?
Seeing the video where Rener explain his analysis of the move that happened is pretty compelling, and white belts don't usually know where to roll or when to tuck. And coming from his own coach makes me think that he should be a little bit more concerned, specially when your student don't know what to defend the move.
I got caught in a similar back take and turned my head the wrong way, I yelled out my neck my neck and the purple belt instructor let off quickly. He was like “you’re supposed to roll with it”. I was a pure white belt, I had NO idea wtf was going on! Luckily we’re both 145 lbs. so it wasn’t bad.
The white belt in question isn't bleach white. Dude competes and was probably swiftly on his way to blue.
@@aplus1080 yes but the problem is that regardless of being a "seasoned" white belt, he was still a white belt. Instructor should have known better, specially when it was said that that specific technique wasn't taught.
@Andre Alcantara would you think that the instructor was still in the wrong if it was a hobbyist blue belt? Or a blue belt woman? Or a blue belt that has just recently returned from a break? Since a competitive white belt would be on level with any of those options and If you consider either of the blue belts smart enough then the white belt should be too
@@jcpbd1776 Yes I would. Even if you are a black belt that pays for class, the instructor should have his students health as priority. Specially regarding neck/spine
A simple rule I once saw on a Gyms wall was "If you Injure somebody here then you can return when they do, no exceptions!" .. I agree with it
Stupid. I mean good to say maybe to remind people to take care of their partners but injuries are a fact of any sport let alone combat sports. And sometimes it’s the injured persons fault
@@j.m.436 plenty of grappler out their intentionally cranking, intentionally leaning to hard into their subs.. to many getting sexual arousal at the idea of permanently injuring somebody, anybody, a sparring partner even, they couldn't care
Not a bad rule if it's due to recklessness, but I've been injured for 6 weeks due to a great training partner accidentally snapping my finger during rolling. We're both super chill blue belts and weren't going hard - it just happens sometimes. I'd hate for both of us to miss the thing we love just cause I got unlucky.
@@mysty0 Guys like that get sorted out quick smart. No head coach worth his salt will let that go unchecked. Ideally with a polite, firm instruction; and if it persists, by rolling with an enforcer who will then teach him all about pain; and if it still persists, by being kicked out.
@@dadthelad sorry Keith but I call Bollocks on that.. seen far too many Clubs where its those who are In and everyone else. Ive watched as those on the inside circles are complete dicks to the rest and gaslight anybody who dares complain. Dont say it isn't so because everyone here knows it is
I think it was pretty clear that Reners business model was to sell out every possible marketing opportunity even slightly related to bjj. Eventually, they gave him enough money for him to be willing to sell bjj out itself.
20 seconds into this vid and there's already misinformation. GU stopped awarding blue belts online years ago.
Also, "temporarily" quadrapeligic is absolutely an understatement. Man had a great recovery, but hes still insanely disabled, can barely run. Has practically no mobility. He technically walk but he will never move the same again. His body is seriously damaged.
Rener just announced that he's donating the 100k to Spinal Cord Injury Network International, so take that into account when making a judgement.
That’s what a politicians do. He’ll make a donation to make ppl chill out an then market his new “Gracie Certificate” an spread fear porn that if your gym doesn’t have it you’re at a risk. I’m sure insurance companies will raise their prices an impact smaller gyms. Smh
Here come the people that are angry that he donated the money to charity!
@@Danlovestrivium nah
Rener thinks he’s clever but that 100k donation simply helps his tax situation
For you to say Rener’s BJJ is watered down? His grandfather is Helio. I train at a Gracie U and I do so because they don’t believe you have to roll hard every time. Many older blackbelts can’t or don’t any more because they are injured or hurt. Nothing wrong with training at a level that is sustainable especially if you don’t desire to compete.
As for the accident, should there be a higher standard for a blackbelt especially an owner and 2nd degree world class practitioner to practice safer moves on a student regardless of skill level? Why should the onus be on the student to react correctly in a split second when there are way more safer moves available? Rener is correct in his assessment and Rener is a great ambassador for BJJ because he is making it more accessible for everyday people.
Wiltse could destroy rener easily
@@PhillipBlackburn-ik5bb if that is your standard for choosing a school, all the power to you. I choose to train at a school where I can feel safe and train sustainably til my later years.
@@cerebus77 yes it is my standard
It’s been a minute since you all posted. I hope you all are doing well and taking care of yourselves!
Personally, I think some injuries are expected in BJJ. It isn't a safe sport. You're an idiot if you think you'll never get hurt. On the other hand, I do NOT think it is reasonable for a student to expect that his instructor might break his neck and make him a quadriplegic. So, I may not agree with all of Rener's testimony, but I still think the jury got the decision correct.
Thank you for telling the truth and publicly expressing these observations.
This video correctly mentions how injuries can happen with BJJ and sparring. This is really an issue separate from this case. As someone age 61 who has done Judo competitively starting age 12 until the joints stopped cooperating, and BJJ for decades, I understand that people I randori-spar with can be bad training partners (especially strong white belts) and put me at risk for injury even though I think I am pretty good at protecting myself. However, when a student is learning from an instructor and paying that instructor to teach him, white belt with no vs some experience or a belt with some color, not good for the instructor to be doing a dangerous move that the author of the video stated was not properly performed. If I am to be injured and get my neck broken from improper technique, I could imagine that happening by sparring with someone in the class that is unsafe. I would not think of it the same way if it came from the black belt instructor I was paying to teach me. I would bet my neck it would not happen if I were sparring with Rener, which I have done many times. There is a distinction between sparring with people in your class or in competition and being a student of the person you are paying to teach you, and that distinction is really not addressed in this video. Just my 0.02.
It's up to the defense team as to what to pay expert witnesses.
"bjj is absolutely unsafe wtf guys" Brilliant, let's try to make it even more unsafe by negligently and incorrectly performing techniques as a black belt. Great plan.
I see comments saying Renner is a snake. Idk-if you’re totally wrecked for life from a freak accident like this, it changes things. I doubt many calling him a snake would just shut up and move on with their quasi-life after an accident like that.
If I got my neck broken in such a scenario, I would pray to God I had Rener on my side to win me some compensation and recourse
A few things I believe were taken out of context:
1. BJJ is known as the gentle art based on being able to subdue an appointment without causing catastrophic harm i.e., knocking someone out or slamming them on their head, and I believe it is agreed upon that it is the most gentle art if compared it to the big 4:boxing, muay thai, judo and wrestling.
2. I don’t know how we you are telling a man who’s family basically invented the art, how the art is supposed to be practiced.
3. The student was originally getting zero compensation for medical bills which is why Rener decided to testify on his behalf and donated his compensation to spinal cord research so Im also not sure why he is being besmirched in this video. He is a stand up guy who devoted his life to the art of jiu jitsu and his family is responsible for it being where it is today period.
4. Not all his students “suck” starting with Brian Ortega who went from white to black belt under him and has fought for the UFC feather weight title twice, getting there mostly with his jiu jitsu.
You can also thank his family for the UFC existing.
Just because his family “created” it doesn’t mean his way of teaching it is representative to how it is taught but the vast majority of gyms today.
You are 100% correct, I couldn't have said it better myself. If only the m*r*on who runs this channel had bothered to read about the entire context of the case he wouldn't have made this idiotic effing video.
There's a bit of post in your fallacy
@@spencerp.8835 Find me a place of any serious education that doesn't have a curriculum. 95% of these gyms don't have any sort of tracking program and most of these instructors don't even know what they're going to teach that day until they get to the gym. I'd be willing to bet that these same gyms have zero idea of what any of their students have been taught even if that's the only place that student has ever been for training. Defending the argument that better tracking of what students have been taught and actually having a curriculum in order to ensure a students are getting a well thought-out education is just plain ignorant.
@@pymebones explain the fallacy
Well, now we know from the Reddit thread what's going on with you. It's great to hear things are on the up and up for you now.
It's pretty obvious, from all the threads and people that you are well loved in the community. Hope that helps you feel better in the long run.
Take your time, well, not toooo much time, 😄, and feel better and return when possible. Stay close to your brother, because he's the rock in your life right now.
Why no videos in the past few months?
Coach Brian from Teach me Grappling made a pretty good case that this was a case of negligence
I agree 100% with coach Brian’s take on this case.
I saw his video explaining the mistakes made and it does make a lot of sense..
The OP is a perfect example of why BJJ is considered a Cult.. the Heirophants are all in defense mode pontificating to the Sycophants.. all brainwashed into ignorance
Coach Brian is a Grappler, not a BJJ purist, he doesnt march to the beat of the BJJ drum
@@tribalman9668 yes but after listening to Andrew's video all the way I also agree Rener's testimony contains several false or questionable statements
I didn’t agree with Brian, his hindsight is 20/20 of course.
One thing people may not be aware of is the gym itself is not on the hook for the $46 mill - the insurance company used by the gym is responsible for the compensation. This verdict will definitely drive up the premiums clubs pay for insurance in the future though 😅💰
No BJJ school has insurance with a $46,000,000 limit. They’re going to have $1mm or $2mm, $5mm absolute top
Just because the settlement is 46 mil doesn't mean he'll actually get that
Its been a minute since you guys uploaded vids. Hope u and bird are all good
Injuries are common in BJJ .
I've torn ligaments in both my kneecaps in competition and also slipt disk in lower back during takedown training.
I feel sorry for the coach because of the guilt he must have felt injuring a student and also hope that the injured student makes a 100% recovery with he's health.
I can't like this comment enough.
You should have trained in a better school and none of those injuries would have happen.
Wiltse Bros are a gawddamn treasure! Thanks for this gem! 😆😆😆
I'm gonna transition to online jiujitsu now lmao
@Joe wishing you a speedy recovery man 🙏🏽don't train too hard
I actually stopped training because I realized how messed up you can get. I had to weigh out the benefits after I got rolled weird on my neck. Too much on the line right now to get that jacked up
I agree 100%. I had to stop training after 7 years at Rickson's school because of a neck injury -- I got 2 badly herniated disks from getting stacked while I was triangling a guy. He fell forward over me and my neck got folded so my chin tucked into my chest. I temporarily lost some function in my left hand and fingers for a few weeks. Orthopedic surgeon told me I'd be foolish to continue training in BJJ in my 40s. Significant neck injuries are quite common in my experience.
@@johnnybrew Not saying this is in any way your fault but you could just release your triangle when you feel the stack is becoming more and more successful. Ideally the guy shouldn't have been able to stand if you hooked the leg. Injuries happen for sure but a lot are avoidable.
@@gregeaster3335 'not my fault but i could have just let go'. Well, not really. I'd been training for 7 years already without that sort of injury, and then it happened quite suddenly. It happens and it's part of the game.
@@johnnybrewI’m sorry but this is a dumb take in my opinion. Your surgeon obviously doesn’t know too much about BJJ and probably thought it’s like Judo or something hence why he said that. Surely the solution would be to do Jiu Jitsu and change your game and not going for moves that could potentially injure the neck.
@@gregeaster3335 Exact same injury occurred to another black belt at Rickson's school in about 2009. It' wasn't a fluke. Listen to Joe Rogan's podcast when he discusses BJJ with other fighters - everyone agrees that BJJ comes with risk of serious injury. Everyone gets hurt at some point.
Such a great editorial I watched it twice! Thanks Andrew!
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+44
I love how you have Rener peaking out behind your chair when you mention him! Lol! Spit my coffee out on my computer, LOL!
I’ve trained karate for 35 years and have always made a point of cross training at any dojo that’ll have me. When you’re the new kid especially from another discipline you’re seen as a scalp so you get a harder session. I think that’s what has happened here - although a low grade he was apparently tough and experienced so got a harder session. I got my mcl torn in the same circumstances - a jitsu guy wanted to show me how good he was and got carried away.
Now this is some quality content.
As an MMA guy and dad, I have visited a lot of BJJ gyms, including Rener's affiliates, and I'll be honest, I agree with some of their safety practices and thought some of it should be standard. I'll say this, if it's about JUST self defense, you only really need a blue belt to defend yourself. If you can't defend yourself against an untrained guy at blue belt, change gyms. BJJ at the most part, only become injury prone when they do extra shit that don't work, or shouldn't be done for self defense anyway. Like berimbolos, inverting, heel hooks, etc... These moves are VERY injury prone and is unnecessary for self defense. Like take the video, wtf does a white belt need a rolling back take for? White belt should be all about stuff like kuzushi, elbow escapes, and triangles.
You don’t think inverting works for self defense? I literally saw my late friend invert at the beach on some mofo, both of them drunk af, he inverted while dodging a punch. He then butterfly that guy almost into the bonfire, while yanking a shoulder lock on that guy who swung. All in self defense. It’s why I do BJJ now bro. After he died being a dumbass on a motorcycle… “i will remember him by living full throttle.” Just not literally in a motorcycle like his dumb ass. 😂
A rolling back take is like late 90s jits it’s not overly complex just not mandatory on average joes. ( Leo veria used it during this time on everyone). The only purpose I could see for self defence wise is Lots of us citizens have wrestling experience since a it taught in schools and will have strong turtle base. odds are slim you run into one but definitely more likely then another jits guy. The roll is you just peeling them from turtle with your body weight. His head got caught in a freaky manner resulting in a spine lock and break
Andrew is becoming a wizard with the edits 🤣, keep the content coming bro!
At this point the BJJ community would be a lot better off if the Rorion side of the Gracie tree would just f*ck off into obscurity.
I would not want to train with you or anyone at your gym.
That's why no one will remember your name.
I feel you’ve made a lot of valid points on this video. Definitely game me some food for thought
100% agree with the BJJ is unsafe. It is just a case of WHEN not IF you get injured
I am currently a member of a BJJ school associated with Gracie University. I'd be reluctant to say "we all suck" I myself have taken opportunities to cross train at sports BJJ clubs on a handful of occasions and I did surprisingly well when rolling against their students. Something I took away from those experiences was just how different the training mentalities between the clubs were, but putting that point to one side for the moment, at it's core we were all just doing the same things, Throwing up triangles, hunting for heel hooks, going for back takes. It's all Jiu Jitsu, we all have a deep love and a vested interest in this awesome martial art!
How do you know heel hooks if you are from Gracie University? Do they teach heel hooks for novice ?xD
BJJ is unsafe? Compared to what?
Muai Thai, boxing, kukokoshin, climbing trees? Sitting on the couch? Walking up the stairs ?
If You’re comparing it to other martial arts, what other martial art enables you to express it 100%.
@user-km6ex8pw5n leg locks aren't covered in the beginner curriculum (white belt) They're taught at blue belt and up to my knowledge.
@CJ-mm4gc idk 🤷🏻♂️ just accepting the fact injuries are inevitable in BJJ, you're going to get injured at some point if you train long enough
Sorry Andrew, you're wrong. If you're a black belt that runs a gym and you break someone's neck, you're responsible.
Agree ! the duty of care is higher on upper belts......otherwise let's all just rip Kani basami's, jump closed guard, jump guillotine, flying armbar and flying triangle every white belt and lower belt to ensure we really put those white belts in their place
I would rather have Ryron as a training partner than someone who just tries to beat me up and win at all costs - ruclips.net/user/shortsnhc3-7aTqXs?feature=share
Rener looks like the type of person who would split the money with the student...
He trapped the guys arm. Made all the pressure on the neck. If your a black belt you should have better control.
Rolling back take, elite move taught in beginners classes world wide. Between these and scissor takedowns when I was a whitebelt, I’m surprised I escaped with my life.
Because most people have awareness to not cripple their partner for life, minus white belts.
Bro, when will be your next video? Don't be a RUclips blue belt pls 🙏
Andrew, will you please explain the logo character? What is it?
Damn man. I just found your content.
I'm new to grappling.
38 years old.
White belt jiu-jitsu.
Like really green. I searched all these videos and yours are the only ones that I connect with.
I found your shit and fell in love. Watched all of it.
Connected with your depression, anxiety, ADHD and bi-polar confessions.
All your shit hits home with me even though I'm a peasant old white belt.
Your content is Gold! And if it means that much to me then I know it touches thousands.
Your real as fuck and that's what we need.
Don't know what's going on in your life but I hope your okay.
Can't wait for your next video.
God bless you.
White belt V white belt sparring is the MOST dangerous combination.
Tried panda for the first time last night. Scooped up some orange chicken. I have my first tournament at the end of the month and need all the help I can get. Thanks bro.
Love the videos keep going
Pretty balanced response. I'm a fan now...everyone knows you stomp guys out and now I see you've got the gift of gab
Rener is articulate and was clearly a carefully considered choice for the attorney looking for someone willing to sell out the art.
Good take. The plaintiff's attorney scored big with Rener, that's for sure. It's amazing how much BS flies in court. You can agree with the verdict and with Rener's choice to testify and still find issue with the claims he made.
How was the art sold out?
@@michaelcampbell8398 By claiming there is an industry standard when you inherit one of the first large gyms in the USA, even though there are plenty of gyms with just a dozen white belts and a blue belt and do comp bjj only. By telling a jury how a gym with a membership of hundreds runs is how every gym is expected to run. By giving online blue belts, which is not industry standard, and claiming someone else isn't following a standard.
@@michaelcampbell8398 because everyone knows that’s what the weavers for and it has effected the sport over night. I enjoyed the hard workout and know gyms are afraid to let people actually try because of this crap
@@Spiritof_76 yep reners a weasel
the edit on the elites popping up on screen is absolute gold
Thank you for this!!! Oss 🤙🏿
where have you been?
The most accurate take on this whole thing I've seen so far.
Love the courtroom background! Judge, Jury, and Executioner Wiltse.
rumor is he back with daisy fresh but now we get 0 content casue there so scared for someone else to release content from there place .. kinda cringe them acting like there to good for somneone elses content not rembering andrew was the face of there brand but they forget that
Yeah I'm wondering what's up. Where did you hear that?
@@Aaron-bd9sj Just social media and andrew said he not allowed to film there .. and watching all there social media , #ihavenolife LOL
I find it disgusting that this guy (wistle)would try to blame the white belt for his injury in such a disingenuous manner. He brings shame on the martial arts community, caring more about insurance costs than the welfare of people.
1s, he tries to downplay the man's injuries..."temporarily paralized"... who here would sign up to be paralyzed for a week, let alone several years fighting to get some movement back, never to be the same again.
Then, to be deceptive, pretty much flat out lie about the man climbing a mountain....he would have you think the man is climbing mountains like Tom Cruze mission impossible.... if you actually watched the film, he walked a mountain trail with several people assisting him along the way. Walking a mountain trail and climbing a mountain are two different things.
Then, to say the white belt spiked his head.... how?? The video shows the instructor launching himself over the man's head, holding him in basically a one arm in bear hug, forcing the man over his own head. By that logic, if someone punches you in the face, it's your fault for running into his fist.
Explain how a white belt "failed to tuck his neck." How can you fail to avoid a move you don't see coming? How is Greener supposed to know what the black belt was planning to do. He could have just rolled to the side he trapped the arm on... what a sensible person would do. Why trap the arm and then roll over the man's head?
Where do you think most of that money went?? Do you think they doctors and lawyers worked years for free? Wistle talks about how much a soul is worth.... how much is your spine worth? The ability to run and complete at the highest level.... how much is that worth? I'm pretty sure Mr. Greener didn't see half the number you came up with. It appears this man cares more about insurance costs and winning a throphy than actually people, and that's sad.
You are the goat andrew
Great points made...personally I think there was a lack of control in the roll which considering the level of the black belt equals negligence. I tell my students all the time to look out for each other as well as to tap early and often. I express often that loss of control and the failure to tap will most likely result in injury. The culture that we are building on my team is one of camaraderie. We train hard but we look out for each other. Thank God Mr. Green made a recovery. Don't really have any comments on Rener, he is what he is.
> there was a lack of control in the roll which considering the level of the black belt equals negligence
Well said. With great power comes great responsibility.
Agreed. Negligent and reckless but not malicious or intentional. Its definitely not something I would ever do to my students.
"it's actually industry standard to fuck your moves up" lol lol 😂 this hits too close to home
Glad you spoke out
You're not realizing it, but you're not arguing that he wasn't negligent, you're arguing that negligence is the industry standard. That's not how the law works
Random Gracie University blue belt student here. Couple of things for the comment section.
1. Rener and Ryron have Almost 40 thousand students in 196 countries I believe. (Looked on the website) Sounds like great business, and great for jiu jitsu to me!
2. You don’t get a blue/purple/brown belt online. You have to go to an official certified training center to test, and roll in person with an instructor who as went to the G.U. In California and proven themselves.
3. Ask yourself, what have I bought/watched off of BJJ fanatics or instagram that I apply to my jiu jitsu? That’s online training my friends. Ryron and Rener just did it better.
4. Gracie University Jiu Jitsu is so watered down it got Brian Ortega to the UFC (which their father started with the same watered down JJ if I’m not wrong) ranking 3rd in the world. (Hard work and dedication got him there, but you know what I’m saying)
Keep it real, keep it playful, but keep it safe. In my opinion that’s what Rener is saying. He protected the student over a fellow black belt instructor, accident or not. That speaks highly of his character.
The instructor should be behind bars, for a long time. A black belt making that move on a white belt. He's a criminal and should be treated like one.
A lot of Rener bashing just to say he was being honest & you have a slightly different opinion. I think tying up the arm before using the guys head to flip over was a big mistake that outweighs most other points.
I wouldn't say Jack was temporarily a quadriplegic. He still has a lot of everyday difficulties, has a limp, a cane, and will likely be effected by this for the rest of his life.
It's a risk we all take. He should take responsibility for his life choices. You walk in the gym and sign the liability wavor, own it. Guy got slopy with a move he didn't crank a reverse guillotine. Dush bag move suing a guy for a ridiculous about of money.
@@letstalkcaliber704 As someone who got paralyzed myself, until you actually go through that shit and realize just how bad being paralyzed is, and how it effects every single little aspect of your whole life and your families, that whole "You know what you sign up for" macho tough guy shit goes right out the window when your hospital gown is soaking wet from your mom's tears. If Jack felt the dude was responsible I'm not surprised that he Sued. I don't know the specifics of this case so Im just going to leave it there.
@@theguy1633 How you got paralyzed, if I can ask?
@@letstalkcaliber704 The only choice Jack made was attending a class. It isn't his job to know everything about the move, it was the coach's.
@@theguy1633 it's not about being macho it's about the fact that you sign a wavor but when a freak accident happens you sue. What's the point of the wavors if anyone can just sue?. At worst it was a sloppy back take attempt. No malicious intent in the slightest and wasn't a particularly dangerous move just a freak accident. It had more to do with the way he reacted than the instructor. Honestly if he tried suing to cover medical bills I'd understand but 46 million is absolutely ridiculous greedy af. Then the dude goes writes a book or something. Self righteous prick. My instructor was in bad car crash. Could have wreck an old lady and put her in the poor house. Choose to just cover his cost. His body was wrecked he couldn't walk, pissed himself randomly and his dick didn't even work. He was never quiet the same but he built himself back up into a better man the most and is training and competing again. That was completely the other drivers fault but he choose not to wreck someone's life more than it already had been. This prick doesn't know how to protect his neck which he should and he blames the instructor. Again suing to cover medical bills is one thing, getting a little extra another suing for $46 million makes you a complete jackass.
I teach jitz at a college and always have day 1ers and spazzy young bucks coming in. I PREACH safety. In this life nobody leaves unscathed.
@@gyrate1998 🤣🤣
Boy hell no. You can't recklessly put weight on someone's neck like that. What are you talking about?
Rener has always been about the 💰💰
Gracies have always been about the money*
Not just him, pretty much every "Gracie" cult gym seems to follow this path.
Look at how the UFC was created. Gracie has been dishonest from the beginning.
In what ways?
@@theinfjgoyim5508 Not that bullsh!t again. A tournament of guys trying to beat the crap out of each other with only 2 rules, and that's dishonest?
Rener was not paid $100K for just this statement. He was paid that over the course of the last two years during multiple outside inquiries that has taken his time away from his businesses and family. Of that sum though, he's gone ahead and donated that money to the Spinal Cord Injury Network.
And proceeded to shit on the community as a whole
What proof do you have?
@@tylertime3624 he posted an explanation on his Instagram. Plus I train under him.
Great analysis and insight, thanks for the video
Any belt level is welcome to roll with any other in the gym I train at. I'm a 58 year old Blue Belt and consider it a privilege to get to roll with and learn from our Black Belts.
the rolling back take is one of my fav moves i can execute well and never have i thought of the danger
generally you dont roll over you roll at an angle
Agree ... 100%. It is indeed, Industry Standard to execute moves in 'less-than-perfect' fashion ... after all, our partners (in rolling) are NOT COMPLYING!! I'd ask Rener if he has ever witnessed an injury on his mat - if he has - then there it is, an instance of 'less than perfect' execution ... if he denies ever having witnessing an injury on his mat - I would suggest he's telling fibs. let's keep in mind, one of the main thrusts of BJJ, is to dominate and submit a non-compliant training partner; as such, it is a semi-violent and constantly changing dynamic, taking place between two people - and it would more the exception rather than the rule, wherein both participants were fully aware of each others capabilities and responses. A Jiu Jitsu mat, is to a large degree, a chaotic environment. Injury is part an parcel of Jiu Jitsu practise ... in stepping onto the mat, we all accept the risks ... just as we do when driving our car, swimming the ocean, hiking, etc. People will be injured playing lawn bowls FFS! I won't presume to guess at Rener's motivations - he is correct of course, in pointing out the 'sub-standard' execution of the technique in question; but if this sets a precedent (unsure of how the law works in the USA) then the Jiu Jitsu landscape might be in for a shock, moving forward. One can foresee a myriad of lawsuits in the future, a massive hike in insurance costs s - or worse, the practise of Jiu Jitsu might even become an 'uninsurable' activity. Yikes! My feeling is that Rener put the focus on 'improper execution'; (in that I agree) - but I don't feel that's where the focus should be ... perhaps that should have been the purview of the defending attorneys. Combat Sports are inherently dangerous activities ... in short - shit happens! As instructors , we can do a lot to mitigate injury, but no matter how diligent we are in bringing such measures into effect - people are people, they will react in weird ways, do weird things, execute sub-standard versions of techniques they know well, etc ... even monkeys fall out of trees.
Your comment is probably the best articulated and well thought out post I've read covering many aspects such as the inherent risk of the sport, insurance premiums going up significantly and the potential of this move may become banned, we'll see the long term results of this ruling in the months and years to come.
I have a cervical injury, and both shoulder laburnums torn. And an MCL tear that healed well. 11 years of bjj.
Did Rener really say "industry standards"? I didn't hear that from Rener's video statement. Does anyone know if that's a direct quote, and if so, is there a transcript somewhere of his testimony?
Yes. The “industry standard” quote is one thing that is why the community is up in arms so much.
It’s from his testimony and there are transcripts you can find online. I believe trumpet dan posted them.
"Industry standard level of care" is a legal term that needs defining in cases like this so that the jury can have a handle on what is expected behavior so they can determine if something was negligent or not. Using it in a legal setting doesn't mean someone is claiming to, or wanting to control the entire industry - it's saying "No, you shouldn't walk into a BJJ gym and expect to get your head crushed into the mat so much that your neck is broken", but in a way that the legal system can understand and use.
@@dannyday5211 correct.
However it is not industry standard to not allow white belts to roll, nor is it that white belts have their own class
@@ArashidoSylvanLake So you just said "correct" but then re-iterated the same thing I was initially replying to. "Industry Standard Of Care" is not claiming to control anyone else's gym. It's about white belts being reasonable in the expectation that they're not going to get murdered when rolling. If that were the standard, good luck getting either insurance OR white belts.
California lawyer and BJJ student here. The defense has stated they will appeal. Court arguably instructed the jury incorrectly on assumption of the risk. That’s a big deal in a case like this.
Ok i was a walk in and spard purple and brown belt. It was great ass kicked work out. My neck was sore for 3 days. Had a great time.
I just watched reners response to the accusations and I agree with him. He wasn't saying the move itself was dangerous, He was saying performing the move incorrectly is dangerous. We shouldn't be rolling (especially in the gym) to prove dominants or feed the ego. We should be rolling to learn with each other and be cautious of our partners. I have only been learning jiu jitsu for 2 weeks and my second roll with a higher belt I attempted a triangle and he stacked me to where it like my neck was about to snap. I verbally tapped at that point cause wasn't about winning, it was about learning while being cautious. Problem was the guy I was rolling felt he was threatened by my attempt and his ONLY intention was to get out. Getting out of a submission isn't bad but doing things with no caution will have its consequences
Rener’s self serving PR bulls***t leads to the pretend striking faux martial arts world. The unfortunate guy had a terrible thing happen. But BJJ doesn’t need to stop being reality tested in the gym every day because of these freak events.
Anyone is going to try and get out of a triangle. The lesson for you there is to release your legs as soon as you knew it was going wrong not blame the guy for escaping the triangle attempt
@@paul8972 I understand that now. My point is performing these things on people who don't understand. Especially people who have just begun
@@paul8972 and sometimes you may not have the time to release or tap. Perfect example is the jack greener case
@@paul8972 that’s his point. You don’t know what you don’t know, and moves that quickly out your neck in jeopardy can be devastating
I have been training in Gym at Gracie University for almost 8 months now and love it. I will, however, say that coupled with my weight lifting (Didn't get injured with weights before) I have had several injuries from the totality of my training: groin, neck, tailbone, all minor. As far as me being able to be handled by someone from a sport BJJ gym, I would say its very probable, but I don't train to compete, I enjoy training jiu-jitsu for self defense and get needed time for rolling in my 300+ member gym.
Awesome video Andrew
The black belt broke his partners neck.
Wiltse is very wrong when he says bjj is extremely dangerous.
A black belt should be able to roll SAFELY with a white belt.
If you can't do that - you're not a black belt.
Dangerous if you arent safe about it. Just accepting it as something that just happens is pretty negligent. Should have complete control of the situation the higher skll you are.
If he took the side of the school and said the person injured was at fault you could call him a sell out; since he's supporting the person who was injured in this situation I think he did the right thing. No reason to insult the man
Best breakdown I’ve seen so far. Very fair to both sides. We’ll done.
You knows what's crazy at the current gym i train at the black belt instructor was kinda having a go at me for warming up before class, I said I was slightly injured from training and he was like people dont get injured in bjj, i was like what the fuck is this guy talking about and then after class I wasn't rolling with everyone so he mentioned I don't roll enough and asked to roll with me I was like alright, mid roll he ends up cranking my elbow we both heard around 3 or 4 pops. That was about 3 weeks ago and my elbow is still sore 😫
@@als6308 it's the only gym in the country 😔
There are few things as dangerous as two white belts going at it so I think it should be standard to pit them against higher belts as much as possible rather than the other way around.
Dang, this channel is gold