Hello Richard. One thing that I noticed watching your video is that your exposures appear to be inadequate. When you pull a sufficiently-exposed cyanotype from the contact frame, it should appear solarized with a partial reversal in some of the tones. The areas receiving the most exposure (frame border, deepest shadow areas, etc.,) should actually have received so much exposure that they have reversed in tone (appearing negative) and have a light powder blue color while other areas look positive with a stronger darker blue color. The effect looks much like some of Man Ray's Rayograms with both positive and negative areas. When the print hits the water bath, the reversed areas will quickly become positive again and deepen in tone. As others have said, a few drops of hydrogen peroxide in the final rinse will deepen the tone and blue color further. So, I suspect your main issue with the process is underexposure. There are many other things that can affect the quality of the image, but I would start with getting solarization to occur. Other problems might be using an alkaline paper (cyanotypes prefer acidic environments and can be bleached in contact with alkalinity) or the digital negative transparency not having a contrast curve applied to improve the emulsion response. The amount of ink or toner the transparency holds as well as the spectral characteristics of the inks, etc., can also affect the results. But those things are more advanced and I would worry about getting sufficient exposure on an unbuffered paper first. The textural fading you report appears to me to be the result of abrasion by the brush when applying the emulsion. I use a homemade glass coating rod (aka "puddle pusher") to minimize that defect and I also try to get the emulsion applied evenly with a minimum amount of brush contact. Letting the coating dry and then applying a second coat will also result in more even and stronger tones. As you have discovered, altering the ratio of the two solutions can affect the exposure speed, contrast, and final depth of tone as shown in this test: smieglitz.tumblr.com/image/25167941443. I like the images and think you are off to a good start with the process. I'd suggest going back to the original 1:1 solution mix double-coated on a cotton, unbuffered paper and expose to the point of solarization to see if that solves the issue of the image disappearing during processing.
Loved your video! I know you made this years ago, but I can currently feel your pain! I'm a printmaker and struggling with the chemical balances of cyanotype! Lovely to hear a fellow British accent too!
Hello there. I don't know how far you've got with your experimentation. I don't see any update. If you are still having difficulties I strongly recommend J.J.McAllister's youtube workshop on the topic: My/AP Workshop Ep1 - Cyanotypes & Digital Negatives. It is the most exact, precise description of the process. One thing he emphasizes is the fact that no two prints are the same. I don't do it quite as controlled as he does, but my results are fair most of the time. You'll also see that the solution goes through different colour variations during the exposure. Your prints are fine, the only thing is that they were not exposed nearly enough. The areas that you expect to turn the darkest would turn kinda grey. Or later, when you started messing with the ratio of the solution that probably interfered with the results. Those solutions need to be mixed equal parts, unless something went quite off when you added your distilled water. When I tried to do this on an overcast day, I had it outside for pretty much the whole afternoon and my image still washed away. I've been using the same product except I buy the liquid form, not the powder. I like to use mixed media paper, but I believe any other paper that is about 150 gms would work, though I haven't had much luck with watercolour paper. I hope you haven't given up on the process, it's great fun.
My guess is your water is the culprit. The solution, once dried on paper shouldn't look blue - it should look yellow. Are you using water from a faucet or distilled water? If distilled, I have no idea. If from the faucet, try distilled. You could do a pH test of your water - alkalinity will destroy the process. You want neutral or even slightly acidic water, but I've seen it recommended to use distilled water at least to mix the chemicals. I also recommend a bit of citric acid or vinegar in your initial bath for a few minutes - it will bring out a bit more pop and contrast. Many people add hydrogen peroxide to get the blue to pop, although it only speeds up the oxygenation and brings about the deep blue you should get after a day or so of drying.
Oops! I meant to reference Man Ray’ technique of re-exposing prints in the darkroom during development to partially reverse the tones in some of his portraits and nudes. That darkroom technique is really known as the “sabatier effect.” True solarization like you’ll witness with proper cyanotype (pre-development) exposure results from extreme overexposure and can be seen in the black sun landscapes of Ansel Adams and Minor White.
Another great, informative video. I enjoy the human element of your channel, Richard, it's good to see what enthusiastic photographers and printmakers can do without the pro equipment. It's all a learning process and I'd be interested in seeing how you progress with your endeavours!
Thank you Liam, yes I thought about it for ages before I finally just thought I'd give it ago even if I don't have the money or fancy kit others seem to have. As I mentioned before doing these videos is first a way for me to look back and see how I have progressed and if I can help others along the way to not make some of the mistakes I have all the better. Far too many people worry about making things perfect, man I know I got sucked in to the whole loves and likes, but in the end we loose sight of why we started in the first place. Like most things in life I seem to be late to the party and its pretty funny at 44 I'm learning things others have been at or done and forgotten about lol. Like all of these processes I think after lots of research I am going to buy the actual chemical compounds and do it the right way as these kits never seem to work as described, well at least for me lol. Thank you for commenting and the positive feedback, nice to hear I am at least heading in the right direction and helping others is my goal 😊👍
Richard, I really enjoyed this one. I think you have some pretty good results! I admire your patience. And you learned some things to NOT do, so I'd call that a success in itself. Thomas Edison found out hundreds of ways to not make a light bulb before he found the first correct way, so you're in good company! I now look forward to your videos so keep them coming.
Larry Selvidge haha thank you and a great way to look at it 😊 I think half the disappointment comes from watching others RUclips and seeing the great results, you kind of assume it's that easy, but as you say never having done something before you can't expect to be a master at it first time out of the gate. I have so many things I have never done and want to learn, this journey of discovering old processes is fascinating. Thank you for watching and thank you for the positivity, it is amazing for motivation 👍😊
After rinsing them you can place your print in water with a bit of hydrogen peroxide and that will make it a deep blue, if it's hot outside leave your print out in the sun for 4 minutes and that should work. I hope this helps!
Equal parts of each solution should give a dark green mixture It doesn't matter if the proportions are not exact. The exposure times are long. here in Australia. with very strong sun, it still takes 15-20 mins (but I use paper negs and that slows things up a bit).I would;t even bother doing it in cloud, even here-it takes forever! The correctly exposed prints look awfully dark, with the image a faint yellowish green. The image will always darken up after some hours or a day, but you can see what it will be like by adding just a splash of hydrogen peroxide to clean water after the prints has been developed and rinsed. Id the print is still too pale after that, then you know you will need a longer exposer. You are getting there tough! :-)
Thanks for this information, other RUclips videos i have been watching show yellow solutions and i was worried i wouldn't get an image as mine was dark green :/ Will try again, but need better paper, as a few times the image washed off :( I will get some more chemicals and try again if I am on the right track :)
Thanks I neglected to mention that although the working solution is dark green, it will look yellow on the paper. Its only green in volume. I think also he colour varies a little with how the original solutions were made. But Don't worry, it will always work. I use Arches Aquarelle paper., but most papers would work . If you use a textured paper though. you may get tiny 'scales'' where the solution makes microscopic pools before it dries. Just use a good plain surface and you won't go wrong. Also, use the solution you mix on the day you make it, same with he coated paper. The separate solutions can be stored forever though. :-) I have two albums of cyanotypes in two albums on Facebook‚ all public. facebook.com/terry.biggenden/media_set?set=a.1750184078334976.1073742031.100000302029032&type=3&pnref=story Good luck!.
Hi John, thanks again. Yeah I think in part watching a lot of RUclips doesn't help because you have an idea in mind how it is supposed to look and when you don't achieve the same results you get discouraged, well at least I do. I have had a crap week with things not going right and my parents health not being good again, so I nearly didn't do any videos, but needed something to keep my mind occupied. I still have lots of videos to edit for my training RUclips channel. Thanks again as always for the words of encouragement :)
Hello :) Nice image! I probably see what's causes the problem you're experiencing. You're using syringes with metal needles - a contact the solutions to any metal parts should be avoided due to contamination risk. We can discuss if such short contact with medical needle can contaminate the chemistry, but the problems you experienced are similar to those described by Malin Fabbri in his book when he mixed the solution in a rusty jar - the solution turned blue and he had problems with highlights. My second tought is what colour does your solution B have? If fresh mixed it should be opaque yellow-green. If it isn't, there's something wrong with that part. After all, you'll always lose some density when developing and washing the print, so it should be slightly overexposed :) I'm waiting for your next tries with cyanotype :)
Thank you so much for your reply and the great advice, I will loose the needles, just hope I haven't messed up the solutions already :( Solution B is a very dark green/blue colour, pretty much like the first test prints I showed at the end I am also wondering if I have put too much water in the solutions as they are very runny and it didn't say how much water to use, just fill the bottles so I did lol Will have another go without the needles and try to over expose it. Again thank you for all your help and being so kind as to share your knowledge :)
Hope you don’t mind me saying but I’ve noticed on all your videos the sound goes out of sync with the picture.. might just be my viewer but only seems to happen with your vids..anyone else mentioned this?
I have noticed if i play videos on my iPad then the go out of sync, double tap to skip back or forward seems to fix the problem. No one else has mentioned it on my videos specifically, but as i say i have noticed the glitch myself. Will have to keep an eye on it :/ but thanks
Do a bath of water & add a little hydrogen peroxide to give you the blue you are looking for. The print is supposed to darken over a period of 24 hours. Good Luck, have fun exploring & Thank You for the video.
Hello Richard. One thing that I noticed watching your video is that your exposures appear to be inadequate. When you pull a sufficiently-exposed cyanotype from the contact frame, it should appear solarized with a partial reversal in some of the tones. The areas receiving the most exposure (frame border, deepest shadow areas, etc.,) should actually have received so much exposure that they have reversed in tone (appearing negative) and have a light powder blue color while other areas look positive with a stronger darker blue color. The effect looks much like some of Man Ray's Rayograms with both positive and negative areas. When the print hits the water bath, the reversed areas will quickly become positive again and deepen in tone. As others have said, a few drops of hydrogen peroxide in the final rinse will deepen the tone and blue color further.
So, I suspect your main issue with the process is underexposure. There are many other things that can affect the quality of the image, but I would start with getting solarization to occur. Other problems might be using an alkaline paper (cyanotypes prefer acidic environments and can be bleached in contact with alkalinity) or the digital negative transparency not having a contrast curve applied to improve the emulsion response. The amount of ink or toner the transparency holds as well as the spectral characteristics of the inks, etc., can also affect the results. But those things are more advanced and I would worry about getting sufficient exposure on an unbuffered paper first. The textural fading you report appears to me to be the result of abrasion by the brush when applying the emulsion. I use a homemade glass coating rod (aka "puddle pusher") to minimize that defect and I also try to get the emulsion applied evenly with a minimum amount of brush contact. Letting the coating dry and then applying a second coat will also result in more even and stronger tones. As you have discovered, altering the ratio of the two solutions can affect the exposure speed, contrast, and final depth of tone as shown in this test: smieglitz.tumblr.com/image/25167941443.
I like the images and think you are off to a good start with the process. I'd suggest going back to the original 1:1 solution mix double-coated on a cotton, unbuffered paper and expose to the point of solarization to see if that solves the issue of the image disappearing during processing.
Wow! Thanks for taking the time to provide such detailed feedback.
Loved your video! I know you made this years ago, but I can currently feel your pain! I'm a printmaker and struggling with the chemical balances of cyanotype! Lovely to hear a fellow British accent too!
For darker blues I put a dash of hydrogen peroxide in my final rinse. great job love you creative enthusiasm!
Hello there. I don't know how far you've got with your experimentation. I don't see any update. If you are still having difficulties I strongly recommend J.J.McAllister's youtube workshop on the topic: My/AP Workshop Ep1 - Cyanotypes & Digital Negatives. It is the most exact, precise description of the process. One thing he emphasizes is the fact that no two prints are the same. I don't do it quite as controlled as he does, but my results are fair most of the time. You'll also see that the solution goes through different colour variations during the exposure. Your prints are fine,
the only thing is that they were not exposed nearly enough. The areas that you expect to turn the darkest would turn kinda grey. Or later, when you started messing with the ratio of the solution that probably interfered with the results. Those solutions need to be mixed equal parts, unless something went quite off when you added your distilled water. When I tried to do this on an overcast day, I had it outside for pretty much the whole afternoon and my image still washed away. I've been using the same product except I buy the liquid form, not the powder. I like to use mixed media paper, but I believe any other paper that is about 150 gms would work, though I haven't had much luck with watercolour paper. I hope you haven't given up on the process, it's great fun.
My guess is your water is the culprit. The solution, once dried on paper shouldn't look blue - it should look yellow. Are you using water from a faucet or distilled water? If distilled, I have no idea. If from the faucet, try distilled. You could do a pH test of your water - alkalinity will destroy the process. You want neutral or even slightly acidic water, but I've seen it recommended to use distilled water at least to mix the chemicals.
I also recommend a bit of citric acid or vinegar in your initial bath for a few minutes - it will bring out a bit more pop and contrast. Many people add hydrogen peroxide to get the blue to pop, although it only speeds up the oxygenation and brings about the deep blue you should get after a day or so of drying.
I've got nice results on Bristol paper with that solution at 1:1. But I was using Uv light...
Oops! I meant to reference Man Ray’ technique of re-exposing prints in the darkroom during development to partially reverse the tones in some of his portraits and nudes. That darkroom technique is really known as the “sabatier effect.” True solarization like you’ll witness with proper cyanotype (pre-development) exposure results from extreme overexposure and can be seen in the black sun landscapes of Ansel Adams and Minor White.
Another great, informative video. I enjoy the human element of your channel, Richard, it's good to see what enthusiastic photographers and printmakers can do without the pro equipment. It's all a learning process and I'd be interested in seeing how you progress with your endeavours!
Thank you Liam, yes I thought about it for ages before I finally just thought I'd give it ago even if I don't have the money or fancy kit others seem to have. As I mentioned before doing these videos is first a way for me to look back and see how I have progressed and if I can help others along the way to not make some of the mistakes I have all the better. Far too many people worry about making things perfect, man I know I got sucked in to the whole loves and likes, but in the end we loose sight of why we started in the first place. Like most things in life I seem to be late to the party and its pretty funny at 44 I'm learning things others have been at or done and forgotten about lol.
Like all of these processes I think after lots of research I am going to buy the actual chemical compounds and do it the right way as these kits never seem to work as described, well at least for me lol.
Thank you for commenting and the positive feedback, nice to hear I am at least heading in the right direction and helping others is my goal 😊👍
Richard, I really enjoyed this one. I think you have some pretty good results! I admire your patience. And you learned some things to NOT do, so I'd call that a success in itself. Thomas Edison found out hundreds of ways to not make a light bulb before he found the first correct way, so you're in good company! I now look forward to your videos so keep them coming.
Larry Selvidge haha thank you and a great way to look at it 😊 I think half the disappointment comes from watching others RUclips and seeing the great results, you kind of assume it's that easy, but as you say never having done something before you can't expect to be a master at it first time out of the gate. I have so many things I have never done and want to learn, this journey of discovering old processes is fascinating. Thank you for watching and thank you for the positivity, it is amazing for motivation 👍😊
I made some of these and then tinted them with tea. Looks awesome
Hey Richard, I thought these actually look decent! Keep on experimenting, great work so far
After rinsing them you can place your print in water with a bit of hydrogen peroxide and that will make it a deep blue, if it's hot outside leave your print out in the sun for 4 minutes and that should work. I hope this helps!
Equal parts of each solution should give a dark green mixture It doesn't matter if the proportions are not exact. The exposure times are long. here in Australia. with very strong sun, it still takes 15-20 mins (but I use paper negs and that slows things up a bit).I would;t even bother doing it in cloud, even here-it takes forever! The correctly exposed prints look awfully dark, with the image a faint yellowish green. The image will always darken up after some hours or a day, but you can see what it will be like by adding just a splash of hydrogen peroxide to clean water after the prints has been developed and rinsed. Id the print is still too pale after that, then you know you will need a longer exposer. You are getting there tough! :-)
Thanks for this information, other RUclips videos i have been watching show yellow solutions and i was worried i wouldn't get an image as mine was dark green :/ Will try again, but need better paper, as a few times the image washed off :( I will get some more chemicals and try again if I am on the right track :)
Thanks
I neglected to mention that although the working solution is dark green, it will look yellow on the paper. Its only green in volume. I think also he colour varies a little with how the original solutions were made. But Don't worry, it will always work. I use Arches Aquarelle paper., but most papers would work . If you use a textured paper though. you may get tiny 'scales'' where the solution makes microscopic pools before it dries. Just use a good plain surface and you won't go wrong. Also, use the solution you mix on the day you make it, same with he coated paper. The separate solutions can be stored forever though. :-)
I have two albums of cyanotypes in two albums on Facebook‚ all public.
facebook.com/terry.biggenden/media_set?set=a.1750184078334976.1073742031.100000302029032&type=3&pnref=story
Good luck!.
I know it may not have been the result you were looking for, but those are really great looking images and the texture is intriguing.
Hi John, thanks again. Yeah I think in part watching a lot of RUclips doesn't help because you have an idea in mind how it is supposed to look and when you don't achieve the same results you get discouraged, well at least I do. I have had a crap week with things not going right and my parents health not being good again, so I nearly didn't do any videos, but needed something to keep my mind occupied. I still have lots of videos to edit for my training RUclips channel.
Thanks again as always for the words of encouragement :)
They look great to me, especially for a first effort.
The girl model looks fantastic as well - is she professional?
Cheers
You need sun to make sun prints. Clouds don't cut it. You probably figured that out by now.
Hello :) Nice image!
I probably see what's causes the problem you're experiencing.
You're using syringes with metal needles - a contact the solutions to any metal parts should be avoided due to contamination risk. We can discuss if such short contact with medical needle can contaminate the chemistry, but the problems you experienced are similar to those described by Malin Fabbri in his book when he mixed the solution in a rusty jar - the solution turned blue and he had problems with highlights.
My second tought is what colour does your solution B have? If fresh mixed it should be opaque yellow-green. If it isn't, there's something wrong with that part.
After all, you'll always lose some density when developing and washing the print, so it should be slightly overexposed :)
I'm waiting for your next tries with cyanotype :)
Thank you so much for your reply and the great advice, I will loose the needles, just hope I haven't messed up the solutions already :(
Solution B is a very dark green/blue colour, pretty much like the first test prints I showed at the end
I am also wondering if I have put too much water in the solutions as they are very runny and it didn't say how much water to use, just fill the bottles so I did lol
Will have another go without the needles and try to over expose it.
Again thank you for all your help and being so kind as to share your knowledge :)
Richard Rollinson - My Analog Life You’re welcome :) I hope my advices will help :)
I have seen your work, so I am pretty sure they will :) I am booking on a Wet Plate course, so hope that goes better lol, really can not wait for that
Hope you don’t mind me saying but I’ve noticed on all your videos the sound goes out of sync with the picture.. might just be my viewer but only seems to happen with your vids..anyone else mentioned this?
I have noticed if i play videos on my iPad then the go out of sync, double tap to skip back or forward seems to fix the problem. No one else has mentioned it on my videos specifically, but as i say i have noticed the glitch myself. Will have to keep an eye on it :/ but thanks
Richard Rollinson - My Analog Life guess what? Watching it on an iPad lol..fair enough, cheers for getting back 👍
haha glad its not just my iPad, felt like throwing it out the window thinking it was broken lol
dont use running water , add a splash of vinegar to bath,
Do a bath of water & add a little hydrogen peroxide to give you the blue you are looking for. The print is supposed to darken over a period of 24 hours. Good Luck, have fun exploring & Thank You for the video.
Don't use a kit. Buy the raw dry chemicals from somewhere like Silverprint. Also having the right negative works wonders.