I bought a bag of these and loaded 100 or so to test out. My primary MO behind loading them was so my wife could enjoy shooting trap with me... She loved them so much I had to try them. They are extremely fun to shoot. Like shooting a 28 gauge. 15.2 grains Red Dot Win209 primer Winchester universal hull. Great shooting load.
One interesting side effect- the extra weight, smaller petals and raised nubbin in the shotcup mean these wads fly a lot further than the 0178-12. We're not in Federal Flight Control territory by any means, but they go about ten yards further than most 12 gauge clay wads. Now there's a thing you know.
Tuesday evening fired 75 shells loaded with these wads and did not find any, although I admit I did not look terribly hard. I expect the small petals are mostly responsible for the extra flight distance of the wads, less of an "air brake" effect.
Great stuff, I too have a shotmaker. you are exactly correct in what you stated about promotional 12 ga 100 rounds packs at discount stores. I believe that for the person that reloads for performance with a particular shooting discipline you can't replace crafted loading for your needs. Making shot is a big down payment, however, a person will recover the cost if they are thrifty and keep their eyes open at garage sales, local advertisements, recycling stations and over the internet. My range had a lead program in place, you as a member could screen out bullets and slugs from the embankment and take it home, this enabled the club to get rid of lead from the facility at no cost to the club. I'm sitting pretty good on lead as I won't be needing more it for many years. as lead has became a commodity and risen in price dramatically many shooting ranges have began to get in on it and sell reclaimed lead for a hefty profit. My suggestion to people that cast or make shot is to attend their clubs meetings and challenge those in charge to look out for the members if they start a lead program. Great stuff, keep up the good instruction.-Dave
I have the remains of a heavily used shot maker and one of these years I'll get it back in operational shape. It's one of those things that might have to wait for when I'm retired. The local guy who I buy shot from makes nice stuff, all screened and nicely graphited . He's retired and making and selling shot pays for his shooting.
I hate to air out dirty laundry, however, Clubs need to be accountable to the membership. Our club has to prove the assets of the club and can be brought forth at any time, a few years back a friend of mine (Who is an accountant) did just that, Unannounced to the membership funds were drawn from a general fund and also each shooting group had a fund of their own. After looking into the shooting groups, it was discovered that certain groups could not hold their own and primarily funded by the general fund, it was also discovered that this was a practice that needed to be approved by the membership voting on it and that was never done. also assets in the way of gear that belonged to the range had to be shown in inventory. It was surprising what was gone. a ransom rest with all our inserts was found in a guys garage. Much of what was donated through the DCM was gone as well, it was given to the range to support shooting programs, gear that is used in match like spotting scopes and stands, Mats, jackets and gloves. and yes.. Rifles were missing with no accountability to were they were and who had them. I have difficulty trusting clubs as trickery is abundant in raising dues to the yearly members. Saying "We had to pay for this, or we had to pay for that" in reality those things were paid for in grants from the NRA and the State for safe shooting range programs. Things like Baffles, brems, fences and new gravel for the forward of the shooting line. I have a hard enough time with trust. I believe that our range is up to it again with the recovery of lead from the berms and shotgun area calling it Our "Lead management program" and they are keeping and spending that money on uncountable things or people. I need to bring about another audit to the board. Once again, it pays to keep an eye on the cookie jar watchers in the club. Go to the meetings and be an advocate for the membership. Believe this, they looked into putting dollar machines that would turn the targets tio face you for a certain amount of time, and all you got as a member was one hour out of the day on your card access, any more than that and you would have to pay for it, 10 minutes for a dollar at a time.-Dave.
If your only access to shot is the commercial made stuff shot shell reloading is certainly not a cost saving hobby like it used to be, unless you are reloading the less used gauges.
That’s awesome I need to try it I load 7/8 my self and I like it also I have little under a half a bag left of 7.5 I will do those in 3/4 ounce stretch out that little bit of shot 😄
I started hand loading small rifle earlier this year before all the crap hit.. Then all the shelves went empty for my favorite shotgun shells so I decided to but reloading gear for 12gauge. I would like to do 20 and 410 also but started with 12.. So I go through all the stuff and I love buying gun stuff.. I am a kid in a candy store and it makes my wife happy to see me happy,, but right away noticed that there are some unsavory people buying up all the presses and selling them for a markup on ebay. I paid twice as much for the Lee Load all 2 than Lee's website sells it for. I figured ok, I can handle 50 extra bucks. But then couldnt find primers... I finally got my hands on 200 primers, because they had a crappy covid limit on how many you could buy.. But I understand they want everyone to get some. So I wantnt complaining to much.. Got some wads that I had no idea what I was buying and some #8 lead shot at the local gun store.. Well they had 1 pound of some Win AA super-handicap and I figured,, it will work.. So of course the next step is to find a load data book so I dont blow my face off.. Well... Let me tell you,,,, Just like primers,, They are all sold out of Lyman's 5th edition.. And just like the presses, I look on Amazon and they are wanting 130 to 200 bucks for the Lyman 5th edition book... At that point I was fed up with frustration. 200 bucks for a 26 dollar book.. I emailed Lyman's and I plan on emailing Lee Precision too.. Just outrageous how greedy people are.. Now I cant load crap because I dont have a load book.... Unless you can give me a recipe for Win 2 3/4 inch hulls, CCI 209, CB4100-12B wad, and AA-super-handicap powder im stuck with crap I cant use. I sent off a email to a couple places to see if they could send me load data, and from what I can tell, that AA super-handicap is pretty new and not a lot of info on it yet.. I got some recipes but not for that CB4100-12B wad.. Its a good thing I have a stockpile of ammo and my shotguns arent my primary defense..
A lot of folks new to reloading are facing the same frustrations. From what I gather it is not the manufactures that are price gouging but rather some retailers and resellers. For load data I suggest you check out www.hodgdonreloading.com, they have free load data and that includes data for WinchesterAA super-handicap powder. Hopefully you can find a load that works will the components you have.
My wife and I started a shooting trap a couple months ago, just changed to Olympic load from 1⅛ oz because she was getting discouraged. Ammo can be found in Ontario for $67/250 and reloading looks like quite an investment in equipment.
There are lots of used shot shell presses out there if one wants to try reloading at reduced cost. The big issue is the price of shot. It makes sense for me to reload shot shells because I have a source of locally made shot that is at a reasonable price.
I’m looking at these wads for rabbit loads possibly 3/4 oz of number 4’s or 6’s should work. Will probably use old Remington RXP hills with cheddite primers and tightwad.
Would this be equivalent to a .28gauge in terms of recoil? I am looking to get my wife and 12yo niece into shooting skeet and am unsure which way to go? Smaller caliber or lighter loads. Any help would be appreciated.
Yes, you approximate a 28 gauge load and recoil with shells loaded with these wads. However most 12 gauge guns are going to be too big and heavy for most 12 year old gals to effectively swing. Claybuster also makes a 3/4 oz 20 gauge wad, you might want to consider a lighter, shorter 20 gauge gun and load that 3/4 oz wad.
You ever use cfe 223 powder, if so how do you measure it properly? I tried the lee dipper 1.6 cc i get different weights with every scoop, i was told this ball powder is not recommended with a drum powder dispenser since it tends to leak a lot.
No, I have not used CFE 223 powder. If you have a drum type measure I expect it would work well in it, unless it is the Lee "Perfect" measure which does not work well with ball powders.
I looked at a bunch of tables for the sts hulls and alot of them call for a rem 209p primer but I can only find rem sts primers. I checked a few forums and haven't found any reliable info. Do you have any info on this?
According to the Remington website "Premier STS primers can be substituted for Remington's previous 209 primers without changes in published reloading formulas". www.remington.com/ammunition/components/primers/209-premier-sts-primers
Different brands of primers have various amounts of priming compound in them and this effects how vigorously they ignite the powder, this changes the pressure and velocity somewhat. As shotguns operate at relatively low pressure a load developed for one primer could turn into an over pressure load if the primer is substituted with one of another brand.
I'm Canadian like yourself, new to shotshell reload but i would like to reload #00 buck. I'm not too concern about performance any suggestion on what wad to use? The powder i've in mind is Hodgdon and i got myself a Lee Load All after viewing your video. Any suggestion to where i could get #00 shots? its either an hour drive from me or another province. Thank you
Wad selection is dependent on the hull, primer and specific powder you plan on using. My recommendation is to purchase a copy of the Lyman Shot Shell reloading manual, or other reputable load data, and review the selection of loads to see which ones use a hull, powder and primer that you can source. This process will leave you with a list of wads that may be suitable. I use a variety of wads for different loads so I cannot recommend any specific one. As for a source of 00 buckshot the commercial ones I have used were purchased either at gun shows or local gun shops, but casting your own is a better long term solution. Sorry I cannot be more specific with answers.
Shots not cheap anymore. I have bought reclaimed shot. Basically 6 7 and 8 shot mixed together. It's almost half the price. Paterns are trippy. Works great on turkeys.
I've had no issues with the cushion section collapsing on the ones I have loaded. It sounds to me like you are trying to load a combination of components that are too big/long for the hull. I have come across loading data that just does not "fit" in the recommended hull, I'm not sure why they publish such data but they do. If the load does not fit without crushing the wad don't bother trying to load it, try something else that fits properly. While wad pressure was required for old style fiber/cork wads significant wad pressure should not be required with modem plastic wads. Be suspect of any load data that tells you to put any amount of force on a modern one piece plastic wad with a cushion section.
Actually lead shot is still manufactured and widely sold. It is not permitted for hunting in some situations, for example in north America lead is not allowed when hunting migratory game birds.
I bought a bag of these and loaded 100 or so to test out. My primary MO behind loading them was so my wife could enjoy shooting trap with me... She loved them so much I had to try them. They are extremely fun to shoot. Like shooting a 28 gauge.
15.2 grains Red Dot
Win209 primer
Winchester universal hull.
Great shooting load.
Yeah, they are truly mild to shoot. I found my skeet scores do suffer a bit from the smaller shot charge, but it's about having a challenge anyway.
One interesting side effect- the extra weight, smaller petals and raised nubbin in the shotcup mean these wads fly a lot further than the 0178-12. We're not in Federal Flight Control territory by any means, but they go about ten yards further than most 12 gauge clay wads. Now there's a thing you know.
Tuesday evening fired 75 shells loaded with these wads and did not find any, although I admit I did not look terribly hard. I expect the small petals are mostly responsible for the extra flight distance of the wads, less of an "air brake" effect.
Great stuff, I too have a shotmaker. you are exactly correct in what you stated about promotional 12 ga 100 rounds packs at discount stores. I believe that for the person that reloads for performance with a particular shooting discipline you can't replace crafted loading for your needs. Making shot is a big down payment, however, a person will recover the cost if they are thrifty and keep their eyes open at garage sales, local advertisements, recycling stations and over the internet. My range had a lead program in place, you as a member could screen out bullets and slugs from the embankment and take it home, this enabled the club to get rid of lead from the facility at no cost to the club. I'm sitting pretty good on lead as I won't be needing more it for many years. as lead has became a commodity and risen in price dramatically many shooting ranges have began to get in on it and sell reclaimed lead for a hefty profit. My suggestion to people that cast or make shot is to attend their clubs meetings and challenge those in charge to look out for the members if they start a lead program. Great stuff, keep up the good instruction.-Dave
I have the remains of a heavily used shot maker and one of these years I'll get it back in operational shape. It's one of those things that might have to wait for when I'm retired.
The local guy who I buy shot from makes nice stuff, all screened and nicely graphited . He's retired and making and selling shot pays for his shooting.
I hate to air out dirty laundry, however, Clubs need to be accountable to the membership. Our club has to prove the assets of the club and can be brought forth at any time, a few years back a friend of mine (Who is an accountant) did just that, Unannounced to the membership funds were drawn from a general fund and also each shooting group had a fund of their own. After looking into the shooting groups, it was discovered that certain groups could not hold their own and primarily funded by the general fund, it was also discovered that this was a practice that needed to be approved by the membership voting on it and that was never done. also assets in the way of gear that belonged to the range had to be shown in inventory. It was surprising what was gone. a ransom rest with all our inserts was found in a guys garage. Much of what was donated through the DCM was gone as well, it was given to the range to support shooting programs, gear that is used in match like spotting scopes and stands, Mats, jackets and gloves. and yes.. Rifles were missing with no accountability to were they were and who had them. I have difficulty trusting clubs as trickery is abundant in raising dues to the yearly members. Saying "We had to pay for this, or we had to pay for that" in reality those things were paid for in grants from the NRA and the State for safe shooting range programs. Things like Baffles, brems, fences and new gravel for the forward of the shooting line. I have a hard enough time with trust. I believe that our range is up to it again with the recovery of lead from the berms and shotgun area calling it Our "Lead management program" and they are keeping and spending that money on uncountable things or people. I need to bring about another audit to the board. Once again, it pays to keep an eye on the cookie jar watchers in the club. Go to the meetings and be an advocate for the membership. Believe this, they looked into putting dollar machines that would turn the targets tio face you for a certain amount of time, and all you got as a member was one hour out of the day on your card access, any more than that and you would have to pay for it, 10 minutes for a dollar at a time.-Dave.
Its so much fun to reload and shoot shotshells, its just too bad its so expensive!
✌🏼😎👍🏼
If your only access to shot is the commercial made stuff shot shell reloading is certainly not a cost saving hobby like it used to be, unless you are reloading the less used gauges.
@@314299 It is now, at an average of 15$ if you can find a box... wmart in my area will only sell one box per day IF they have any.
That’s awesome I need to try it I load 7/8 my self and I like it also I have little under a half a bag left of 7.5 I will do those in 3/4 ounce stretch out that little bit of shot 😄
Yep, it does let you shoot more. Light recoil too.
I started hand loading small rifle earlier this year before all the crap hit.. Then all the shelves went empty for my favorite shotgun shells so I decided to but reloading gear for 12gauge. I would like to do 20 and 410 also but started with 12.. So I go through all the stuff and I love buying gun stuff.. I am a kid in a candy store and it makes my wife happy to see me happy,, but right away noticed that there are some unsavory people buying up all the presses and selling them for a markup on ebay. I paid twice as much for the Lee Load all 2 than Lee's website sells it for. I figured ok, I can handle 50 extra bucks. But then couldnt find primers... I finally got my hands on 200 primers, because they had a crappy covid limit on how many you could buy.. But I understand they want everyone to get some. So I wantnt complaining to much.. Got some wads that I had no idea what I was buying and some #8 lead shot at the local gun store.. Well they had 1 pound of some Win AA super-handicap and I figured,, it will work.. So of course the next step is to find a load data book so I dont blow my face off.. Well... Let me tell you,,,, Just like primers,, They are all sold out of Lyman's 5th edition.. And just like the presses, I look on Amazon and they are wanting 130 to 200 bucks for the Lyman 5th edition book... At that point I was fed up with frustration. 200 bucks for a 26 dollar book.. I emailed Lyman's and I plan on emailing Lee Precision too.. Just outrageous how greedy people are.. Now I cant load crap because I dont have a load book.... Unless you can give me a recipe for Win 2 3/4 inch hulls, CCI 209, CB4100-12B wad, and AA-super-handicap powder im stuck with crap I cant use. I sent off a email to a couple places to see if they could send me load data, and from what I can tell, that AA super-handicap is pretty new and not a lot of info on it yet.. I got some recipes but not for that CB4100-12B wad..
Its a good thing I have a stockpile of ammo and my shotguns arent my primary defense..
A lot of folks new to reloading are facing the same frustrations. From what I gather it is not the manufactures that are price gouging but rather some retailers and resellers. For load data I suggest you check out www.hodgdonreloading.com, they have free load data and that includes data for WinchesterAA super-handicap powder. Hopefully you can find a load that works will the components you have.
@@314299 Sweet.. Thank you. I knew there was a reason I hit the subscribe button..
My wife and I started a shooting trap a couple months ago, just changed to Olympic load from 1⅛ oz because she was getting discouraged. Ammo can be found in Ontario for $67/250 and reloading looks like quite an investment in equipment.
There are lots of used shot shell presses out there if one wants to try reloading at reduced cost. The big issue is the price of shot. It makes sense for me to reload shot shells because I have a source of locally made shot that is at a reasonable price.
I’m looking at these wads for rabbit loads possibly 3/4 oz of number 4’s or 6’s should work. Will probably use old Remington RXP hills with cheddite primers and tightwad.
That ought to work.
wow, never knew anyone made something that light. I think even 3/4 oz is light for a 20ga, definitely saving some money on lead
It certainly does make a bag of lead go further.
Would this be equivalent to a .28gauge in terms of recoil? I am looking to get my wife and 12yo niece into shooting skeet and am unsure which way to go? Smaller caliber or lighter loads. Any help would be appreciated.
Yes, you approximate a 28 gauge load and recoil with shells loaded with these wads. However most 12 gauge guns are going to be too big and heavy for most 12 year old gals to effectively swing. Claybuster also makes a 3/4 oz 20 gauge wad, you might want to consider a lighter, shorter 20 gauge gun and load that 3/4 oz wad.
Cool
I shot 75 shells loaded with these wads and they performed quite well. I like them.
You ever use cfe 223 powder, if so how do you measure it properly? I tried the lee dipper 1.6 cc i get different weights with every scoop, i was told this ball powder is not recommended with a drum powder dispenser since it tends to leak a lot.
No, I have not used CFE 223 powder. If you have a drum type measure I expect it would work well in it, unless it is the Lee "Perfect" measure which does not work well with ball powders.
My RCBS Uniflow loves CFE223 and H335
I looked at a bunch of tables for the sts hulls and alot of them call for a rem 209p primer but I can only find rem sts primers. I checked a few forums and haven't found any reliable info. Do you have any info on this?
According to the Remington website "Premier STS primers can be substituted for Remington's previous 209 primers without changes in published reloading formulas".
www.remington.com/ammunition/components/primers/209-premier-sts-primers
How does the brand of primer affect the re load ?
Different brands of primers have various amounts of priming compound in them and this effects how vigorously they ignite the powder, this changes the pressure and velocity somewhat. As shotguns operate at relatively low pressure a load developed for one primer could turn into an over pressure load if the primer is substituted with one of another brand.
I'm Canadian like yourself, new to shotshell reload but i would like to reload #00 buck. I'm not too concern about performance any suggestion on what wad to use? The powder i've in mind is Hodgdon and i got myself a Lee Load All after viewing your video. Any suggestion to where i could get #00 shots? its either an hour drive from me or another province. Thank you
Wad selection is dependent on the hull, primer and specific powder you plan on using. My recommendation is to purchase a copy of the Lyman Shot Shell reloading manual, or other reputable load data, and review the selection of loads to see which ones use a hull, powder and primer that you can source. This process will leave you with a list of wads that may be suitable. I use a variety of wads for different loads so I cannot recommend any specific one. As for a source of 00 buckshot the commercial ones I have used were purchased either at gun shows or local gun shops, but casting your own is a better long term solution. Sorry I cannot be more specific with answers.
@@314299 thank you
I reload the 3/4 ounce 20 Guage for my grandsons.
That would make a nice light recoiling shell for young fellows to shoot. I have a couple bags of 3/4 oz 20 gauge wads to try out.
Do you tighten up your choke a bit when you shoot skeet with these?
No, I used the same cylinder bore chokes that I usually do. Switching to Improved Cylinder might be a good idea.
Yes, IC might concentrate the pattern a bit better given the 3/8 oz reduction in pellets vs the standard 1 1/8 oz payload.
Shots not cheap anymore. I have bought reclaimed shot. Basically 6 7 and 8 shot mixed together. It's almost half the price. Paterns are trippy. Works great on turkeys.
1/2 price sounds good to me. I've never had the chance to try reclaimed shot. How clean is it?
It's very clean. Here is where I get it. redlandsshootingpark.com/reclaimed-lead-shot-for-sale-shipment/
And of all places California. This is about the best shotgun club here in the inland empire. 20 minute drive for me.
Are those for tapered hulls?
They work in tapered hulls but I think there is also reloading data so that they can be used in tube type hulls as well.
Are you and Gungeek do anymore gun chats
We have recently tried doing live chats on YT but they have given us issues, that is to say they did not work....
Every time you guys do a chat I can never comment. Fix that.
@@nrainfidelforlife Gungeek generally hosts the chats. We have had no success in running one if a few months.
Those wads SUCK!
The loads that I have tried to load all say to compress the wad by such and such pounds, but when you try to do it the legs collapse!
I've had no issues with the cushion section collapsing on the ones I have loaded. It sounds to me like you are trying to load a combination of components that are too big/long for the hull. I have come across loading data that just does not "fit" in the recommended hull, I'm not sure why they publish such data but they do. If the load does not fit without crushing the wad don't bother trying to load it, try something else that fits properly. While wad pressure was required for old style fiber/cork wads significant wad pressure should not be required with modem plastic wads. Be suspect of any load data that tells you to put any amount of force on a modern one piece plastic wad with a cushion section.
They do not make a lead shot anymore because of the wildlife
Actually lead shot is still manufactured and widely sold. It is not permitted for hunting in some situations, for example in north America lead is not allowed when hunting migratory game birds.