For anyone who can't seem to reach Vivien's spreadsheet in the link (like myself) or prefers google sheets, I've made my own version of the spreadsheet Vivien describes in her video. I took inspiration from the photos and explanation she presented in this video. Thank you so much Vivien for the idea! Here's the link to my spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bm3KuZUmHkcypx7ejTU-QarpDWS94XMf-QzrozRlR88/edit?usp=sharing Just make a copy under file and you're good to go! Hope you guys enjoy. *There are sixty chapter and 100 beta reader slots
@@korennai Real life festivals such as the Pagan festivals celebrate the change/rebirth of nature. The God 'Saturn' was the God of harvest/wealth/abundance/time ... So around 'christmas' or Yule, folk had the Saturnalia which was filled with music, dance, and feasting. So what you need is: A special event in the natural world + A god or religious interpretation. Give your characters a reason to celebrate and then something to motivate them to do it again in a given amount of time.
You are precious. Hands-down my favorite authortube channel. This was super helpful, but I'm struggling with how to find betas when you don't have any books out. It seems like other authors are looking for the same thing so it's hard to find people that are willing to beta when you don't have a following yet.
That's a good set of tips. My file set up will work with those tips. Thank you. So glad it wasn't some off-the-wall tips that wouldn't fit with my stuff. That spreadsheet is genius, by the way. I hope the coloring thing is already programmed in. :)
I'm jealous you have so many Betas! I never needed a complicated plan for their feedback because I only ever had about two at a time. Haha! I hope your beta process is going really well!
I'll admit, this many betas at one time is a little crazy. I think with my next novel I'll stick to a limit of 10 and do two full rounds. Life always tries to pull me in different directions, so I think 10 will be a lot more manageable. Keep advertising for betas, though! Don't give up. It obviously helps to have a following before you look for betas, but keep asking around. It depends on how much free time each person has, so they might be free during January but not December. If you catch a good one, see if they'll beta for your next book too! That way you can gather up a go-to list for future works. Happy editing!
Hi I just found your channel through Bethany Atazada's channel and I love your content! I was hoping the beta spreadsheet is still available for download? I clicked the link and it took me to your website with a content calendar.
Ok that conditional formatting is a beautiful thing! I am now making a spreadsheet to organize all the royal bloodlines in my story instead of actually writing said story... 😂
Great advice. Thanks for the spreadsheet idea. I just finished NaNoWriMo, now it's time to edit, ugh. I'm so sad I missed the beta reader opportunity. Can't wait for the book. I read the teasers you have on your website and I'm hooked.
Awesome! Congratulations on finishing NaNo (I assume that meant you won it)! I'll be doing a rapid-beta read in a few weeks. Look out for an announcement on Twitter for that!
i did 4 drafts already and i think i search for betareaders after the 5th draft, that i soon going to work on. i need allot of work because much of it is unneaded sentences that mirrors the real world too much and also passive voice and unneaded words, fillers. i think when i rewrote that in 5th draft that i'm ready for betareaders. its my first book i'm writing so in that case; its scary considering i'm not quite sure of my writing style. when i finished the 4th draft, i wasn't that happy like normally. it still is hard to read. i think its because how bad my writing is that its painfull to read and that is what i need to change in draft 5. i would reread my book first before going to betareading process though.. how many drafts until too much?
what perks , if any, do you offer to your beta readers? do you use any incentives? i'm getting close to needing readers (yay!) and i was curious as to ways to get them and keep them coming back. thanks for your vids!!!!!
I don't offer any incentives. I had a lot of volunteers for beta reading, but I would suggest posting on every social media site that you have. Goodreads is my favorite because they have groups dedicated to finding betas. That's how I became one of Kristen Martin's betas for her debut :)
I'm writing, and illustrating, a graphic novel at the moment. I was wondering if you offer anything in the form of payment or reward to your beta readers? I plan on having a select few people review my work as it evolves. However I was worried about those people sitting on the material and not sending timely feedback. I'm self funded so a great deal of monetary compensation is not really an option. I'm a noob to all of this so I wanted to have it squared away before my story came to a review point. Thanks
Thank you for the spreadsheet! What a good system. Having gone through this process (mostly) do you think it's a bad idea to have someone read your work as you're writing it? Ex: Send them the first chapter while you're writing at the 3rd or 4th chapter? Or do you think it's better not to share it with anyone until you're done writing the entire copy?
I would say if you're a really experienced writer, you can try it. I would limit this to just a couple/few people though. If you're not an experienced writer, I wouldn't recommend it. For me, my betas pointed out issues that have a ripple effect throughout my novel. So I'm fixing those before sending out the chapters, which means I might be reworking Chapter 22 while my betas are giving feedback on Chapters 6-12. It gets difficult to keep their feedback organized, making sure nothing gets lost, *and* reworking scenes further into the novel. I believe, but don't quote me because I've never outright heard her say it, Jenna Moreci sent out chapters of TSC as she was writing. It seemed like she sent it out to critique partners and not betas, but again, I could have made that up based on my own crazy assumptions. Take away: it can be done if you're not going to confuse yourself. My first drafts aren't neat enough to do that, so I can't even dream of it. I go through a number of drafts before I get to that point, so finishing the novel is a must for me (and most writers).
Good points, makes sense. My next question, I guess, would be that I'm in a situation where I have someone I went to school with years ago who is interested in being a critique partner?/beta reader, but she doesn't write herself (that I know of). Do you think such an endeavor would contribute anything of value or would it just tangle things up and make it more difficult? I'm on the fence about it. Do you think it's a better idea to ONLY work this way with another writer while still in the process of writing the manuscript? Thanks for the videos :) I've watched a whole bunch of both yours and Jenna's
That's completely up to you. I find it nice to have someone I can bounce ideas off of while writing. It's best to do this with someone you completely trust, since you want your brainstorming to be unhindered. Again, I wouldn't really recommend having someone beta/critique before you finish your first draft. I ended up with draft number four-ish before having people look at it. Thanks for watching! Happy writing :)
Tough question! I've been working on this novel since July 2015, and it's changed a lot in that time. I didn't count the number of drafts but I would say about 3, not counting small fixes in between. Even then, I'm going through each chapter before I send it out to betas to fix issues they pointed out early on. So I guess it's really 4 :)
Generally, you send your betas *at least* the second draft. I ended up sending my fourth(ish) draft (I wasn't counting). You want to make your novel as strong as you can before asking for opinions!
I would say after your second-ish draft. It's best practice to make your novel as strong as you can before asking for other's opinions on it. Mine ended up being about the fourth draft before I started looking for betas.
:D When I blurred the names with the first pass, you could still make out what they were and for some reason "Crawford" needed more passes than the rest. You're a hard one to censor!
The FCC has tried to censor me sence I was thirteen! But they were not ready for this stedy flow of insanity mixed with homemade spaghetti. Because I don't give a truck and they were always out of luck! Reather it be a duck in the muck, or an ice hockey puck when people try to censor me they always end up saying.. Puppies! Because I distract them with puppies and run aways. :p (sorry I'm hyper today.)
Haha, coffee much? I'm battling a cold sitting at my desk at work...I want to be home so bad! (hence me being on RUclips answering comments like an awesome employee)
Vivien, seriously...I'm not trying to be harsh or rude. However, I probably have more experience in managing huge projects than twice your age. I've learned one thing along the way...you cannot lead by consensus and you are the leader of your novel. If you have 20 beta readers, you'll have 20 different opinions - NONE of which are your creative nature. So, my point is -- if you want to write a novel...YOU need to write a novel. If you need 20 beta readers to tell you where you're going wrong...I suggest you take up oil painting, or knitting. If you're a great writer, you're a great writer - PERIOD. If you're not...don't fool yourself any longer and ask yourself...do I really love my beta readers or do I really love the attention?
Vivien, I do wish you well. I'll even buy your book when you publish it. I actually enjoy watching your videos. Some are fun to watch. That said, take ownership of your destiny. Writing a novel by consensus is like picking a spouse by consensus...it will end in disaster. I think YOU have what's needed to be a winner. YOU have the creative nature needed to be successful. You need to grab success by the throat and drag it to your destiny. Forget what beta1 says or what beta2 thinks...what matters is what YOU think, what YOU want to write and how YOU want to frame your characters in your novel. YOU are the winner...stand up and take your rightful place. YOU write your book. Let everyone else read what YOU wrote! PERIOD!!!
I understand what you're saying, and someone may have already mentioned this to you because I'm super late, but beta reading is absolutely vital to the writing process. You as an author are too close to the story to see flaws, and if you decide to put out a product that no one's ever seen, it'll be a disaster. Beta readers don't change the story, they point out mistakes and areas for improvement. They're also a good way to gauge your market, and if you're looking into making writing a career, your market is very, very important. Your book is like your brain child--no one wants to admit their baby might not be a looker. But unlike real babies, you can tinker with your book until it's gorgeous. Hopefully you won't feel offended, and hopefully this makes sense :)
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
For anyone who can't seem to reach Vivien's spreadsheet in the link (like myself) or prefers google sheets, I've made my own version of the spreadsheet Vivien describes in her video. I took inspiration from the photos and explanation she presented in this video. Thank you so much Vivien for the idea!
Here's the link to my spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bm3KuZUmHkcypx7ejTU-QarpDWS94XMf-QzrozRlR88/edit?usp=sharing
Just make a copy under file and you're good to go! Hope you guys enjoy.
*There are sixty chapter and 100 beta reader slots
For the week of Christmas can you do mini-world building video about creating believable holidays for your book?
Ohh, good idea!
Yes! I second this.
@@korennai Real life festivals such as the Pagan festivals celebrate the change/rebirth of nature. The God 'Saturn' was the God of harvest/wealth/abundance/time ... So around 'christmas' or Yule, folk had the Saturnalia which was filled with music, dance, and feasting.
So what you need is: A special event in the natural world + A god or religious interpretation. Give your characters a reason to celebrate and then something to motivate them to do it again in a given amount of time.
You are precious. Hands-down my favorite authortube channel. This was super helpful, but I'm struggling with how to find betas when you don't have any books out. It seems like other authors are looking for the same thing so it's hard to find people that are willing to beta when you don't have a following yet.
I can't seem to find the spreadsheet :( I was really looking forward to using it.
The spreadsheet link just takes me to your website. It doesn't not download anything.
These suggestions are really practical - thanks!
That's a good set of tips. My file set up will work with those tips. Thank you. So glad it wasn't some off-the-wall tips that wouldn't fit with my stuff. That spreadsheet is genius, by the way. I hope the coloring thing is already programmed in. :)
I'm jealous you have so many Betas! I never needed a complicated plan for their feedback because I only ever had about two at a time. Haha! I hope your beta process is going really well!
I'll admit, this many betas at one time is a little crazy. I think with my next novel I'll stick to a limit of 10 and do two full rounds. Life always tries to pull me in different directions, so I think 10 will be a lot more manageable. Keep advertising for betas, though! Don't give up. It obviously helps to have a following before you look for betas, but keep asking around. It depends on how much free time each person has, so they might be free during January but not December. If you catch a good one, see if they'll beta for your next book too! That way you can gather up a go-to list for future works. Happy editing!
Hi I just found your channel through Bethany Atazada's channel and I love your content! I was hoping the beta spreadsheet is still available for download? I clicked the link and it took me to your website with a content calendar.
Ok that conditional formatting is a beautiful thing! I am now making a spreadsheet to organize all the royal bloodlines in my story instead of actually writing said story... 😂
I'm seriously in love with conditional formatting. I'm amazed every time the color changes in a cell. It's magic!
Great advice. Thanks for the spreadsheet idea. I just finished NaNoWriMo, now it's time to edit, ugh.
I'm so sad I missed the beta reader opportunity. Can't wait for the book. I read the teasers you have on your website and I'm hooked.
Awesome! Congratulations on finishing NaNo (I assume that meant you won it)! I'll be doing a rapid-beta read in a few weeks. Look out for an announcement on Twitter for that!
Vivien Reis yup. I won. Thanks
I'll definitely be watching for that!
SO HELPFUL THANK YOU
i did 4 drafts already and i think i search for betareaders after the
5th draft, that i soon going to work on. i need allot of work because
much of it is unneaded sentences that mirrors the real world too much
and also passive voice and unneaded words, fillers. i think when i
rewrote that in 5th draft that i'm ready for betareaders.
its my first book i'm writing so in that case; its scary considering i'm not quite sure of my writing style. when i finished the 4th draft, i wasn't that happy like normally. it still is hard to read. i think its because how bad my writing is that its painfull to read and that is what i need to change in draft 5. i would reread my book first before going to betareading process though..
how many drafts until too much?
what perks , if any, do you offer to your beta readers? do you use any incentives? i'm getting close to needing readers (yay!) and i was curious as to ways to get them and keep them coming back. thanks for your vids!!!!!
I don't offer any incentives. I had a lot of volunteers for beta reading, but I would suggest posting on every social media site that you have. Goodreads is my favorite because they have groups dedicated to finding betas. That's how I became one of Kristen Martin's betas for her debut :)
Great video, but the spreadsheet isn't downloading on my computer. Love the puppy cameo.
Charley Storm Just fixed the link. Try it again! Download link is at the top of the post.
I'm writing, and illustrating, a graphic novel at the moment. I was wondering if you offer anything in the form of payment or reward to your beta readers? I plan on having a select few people review my work as it evolves. However I was worried about those people sitting on the material and not sending timely feedback. I'm self funded so a great deal of monetary compensation is not really an option. I'm a noob to all of this so I wanted to have it squared away before my story came to a review point.
Thanks
How long is this process? A few weeks? A month?
I can't find the spreadsheet :(
Ah man, the spreadsheet is no longer available??
What kind of questions did you ask for the chapters you sent?
hahahh that was a pretty great intro lol
how do you find a beta-reader?
So you do your beta reading a chapter at a time?
your spreadsheet link doesn't seem to be working (at least not on my android phone) :(
JaeStories link is not working for me either
JaeStories Hm, I just tested it and it worked fine. Let me try from another computer.
JaeStories Fixed it! The shortlink is case sensitive...oops! Link to download is at the top of the post. Let me know if it doesn't work!
Spreadsheet link working now. You are GOOD!
YAY! Glad to hear! Thanks for letting me know :)
Thank you for the spreadsheet! What a good system. Having gone through this process (mostly) do you think it's a bad idea to have someone read your work as you're writing it? Ex: Send them the first chapter while you're writing at the 3rd or 4th chapter? Or do you think it's better not to share it with anyone until you're done writing the entire copy?
I would say if you're a really experienced writer, you can try it. I would limit this to just a couple/few people though. If you're not an experienced writer, I wouldn't recommend it. For me, my betas pointed out issues that have a ripple effect throughout my novel. So I'm fixing those before sending out the chapters, which means I might be reworking Chapter 22 while my betas are giving feedback on Chapters 6-12. It gets difficult to keep their feedback organized, making sure nothing gets lost, *and* reworking scenes further into the novel. I believe, but don't quote me because I've never outright heard her say it, Jenna Moreci sent out chapters of TSC as she was writing. It seemed like she sent it out to critique partners and not betas, but again, I could have made that up based on my own crazy assumptions. Take away: it can be done if you're not going to confuse yourself. My first drafts aren't neat enough to do that, so I can't even dream of it. I go through a number of drafts before I get to that point, so finishing the novel is a must for me (and most writers).
Good points, makes sense. My next question, I guess, would be that I'm in a situation where I have someone I went to school with years ago who is interested in being a critique partner?/beta reader, but she doesn't write herself (that I know of). Do you think such an endeavor would contribute anything of value or would it just tangle things up and make it more difficult? I'm on the fence about it. Do you think it's a better idea to ONLY work this way with another writer while still in the process of writing the manuscript? Thanks for the videos :) I've watched a whole bunch of both yours and Jenna's
That's completely up to you. I find it nice to have someone I can bounce ideas off of while writing. It's best to do this with someone you completely trust, since you want your brainstorming to be unhindered. Again, I wouldn't really recommend having someone beta/critique before you finish your first draft. I ended up with draft number four-ish before having people look at it. Thanks for watching! Happy writing :)
How many drafts did you write before you recruited beta's?
Tough question! I've been working on this novel since July 2015, and it's changed a lot in that time. I didn't count the number of drafts but I would say about 3, not counting small fixes in between. Even then, I'm going through each chapter before I send it out to betas to fix issues they pointed out early on. So I guess it's really 4 :)
Not sure if this is covered in another video, but how many edits do you do on a chapter before sending it to your betas?
Generally, you send your betas *at least* the second draft. I ended up sending my fourth(ish) draft (I wasn't counting). You want to make your novel as strong as you can before asking for opinions!
I guess the trick is deciding how much editing I want to invest into the story before letting others tell me what I need to change.
the link isn't working 😔
Were you on a cell phone or a computer? I think someone else said it didn't work on their Android but it did on their computer. Let me know!
I have the opposite problem. :( I need betas.
Goodreads has some great groups specifically for finding betas. Join them and make sure you read their guidelines/rules for posting!
Vivien Reis Thank you. :)
Do you still need beta readers???
but, how do i get betas?
Goodreads or Facebook groups are good places to start. They have groups designed around connecting beta readers to writers. Best of luck!
Vivien Reis i'll search... when should one search for betas?
When you feel you need their feeback.
I would say after your second-ish draft. It's best practice to make your novel as strong as you can before asking for other's opinions on it. Mine ended up being about the fourth draft before I started looking for betas.
Vivien Reis well, that is a problem then hahah thank you
Hey Vivien, do you pay all 15 of your beta readers?
Nope! I don't pay any of them. In my opinion, beta services should be free.
Beta readers are non professional person, means no need to pay. you can pay later if your work sells awesome, and thats also if you feel like it.
Very true. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine when I see people offering their beta services for a price :/
Good beta readers are hard to find. lol
They can harass me :) :P
:D When I blurred the names with the first pass, you could still make out what they were and for some reason "Crawford" needed more passes than the rest. You're a hard one to censor!
The FCC has tried to censor me sence I was thirteen! But they were not ready for this stedy flow of insanity mixed with homemade spaghetti. Because I don't give a truck and they were always out of luck! Reather it be a duck in the muck, or an ice hockey puck when people try to censor me they always end up saying.. Puppies!
Because I distract them with puppies and run aways. :p (sorry I'm hyper today.)
Haha, coffee much? I'm battling a cold sitting at my desk at work...I want to be home so bad! (hence me being on RUclips answering comments like an awesome employee)
Vivien, have you ever thought of simply writing your own book and doing your own "beta reading"...seriously!
But I love my betas :)
Vivien, seriously...I'm not trying to be harsh or rude. However, I probably have more experience in managing huge projects than twice your age. I've learned one thing along the way...you cannot lead by consensus and you are the leader of your novel. If you have 20 beta readers, you'll have 20 different opinions - NONE of which are your creative nature. So, my point is -- if you want to write a novel...YOU need to write a novel. If you need 20 beta readers to tell you where you're going wrong...I suggest you take up oil painting, or knitting. If you're a great writer, you're a great writer - PERIOD. If you're not...don't fool yourself any longer and ask yourself...do I really love my beta readers or do I really love the attention?
Calixto Hahaha, this is the best. P.S. I already know how to oil paint and knit. Collecting hobbies is my hobby 🤓
Vivien, I do wish you well. I'll even buy your book when you publish it. I actually enjoy watching your videos. Some are fun to watch. That said, take ownership of your destiny. Writing a novel by consensus is like picking a spouse by consensus...it will end in disaster. I think YOU have what's needed to be a winner. YOU have the creative nature needed to be successful. You need to grab success by the throat and drag it to your destiny. Forget what beta1 says or what beta2 thinks...what matters is what YOU think, what YOU want to write and how YOU want to frame your characters in your novel. YOU are the winner...stand up and take your rightful place. YOU write your book. Let everyone else read what YOU wrote! PERIOD!!!
I understand what you're saying, and someone may have already mentioned this to you because I'm super late, but beta reading is absolutely vital to the writing process. You as an author are too close to the story to see flaws, and if you decide to put out a product that no one's ever seen, it'll be a disaster. Beta readers don't change the story, they point out mistakes and areas for improvement. They're also a good way to gauge your market, and if you're looking into making writing a career, your market is very, very important. Your book is like your brain child--no one wants to admit their baby might not be a looker. But unlike real babies, you can tinker with your book until it's gorgeous. Hopefully you won't feel offended, and hopefully this makes sense :)