Two games that I wish had this Nemesis mechanic to keep players glued for hours and hours of procedurally generated storylines after the main story finished are: 1. Ghost Recon Wildlands - imagine having those cartels also betray each other for a drug turf power play. Or, El Suenio being replaced or betrayed by that annoyingly DJ guy for overlord😂😂 2. The other game is Mount And Blade: Bannerlord II. There are so many potential relationships between leaders that can exploit this mechanic
The gameplay of both games, Shadow of Mordor & Shadow of War is still only an Assassin's Creed copycat. And, they didn't even implement voice & cutscenes for the ``female skins´´ we can play! Also: Mission content is repetitive as beep. 🤔
@@Akekala I would have loved to see this system, or similar, in Starfield. Especially going NG+. New main quests that feel different each new game. Generating new baddies and stories driven by what the player has done.
@@AnEggShellWhite True, I just wanted to remark that this isn't going to last forever, is just a matter of time. The industry isn't going to die after all.
Early on in the game I let a slave orc kill me just to see what would happen. He became a captain. I thought this was cool. The story took me away from this area for a really long time. When I came back he was overlord. I felt weirdly proud of him. It was the one fort I never took.
I had similar but more hands on. I let the dumbest, weakest looking orc in a camp kill me and then tried to see how far I could get him up the ranks without making him my follower and by having as little personal interaction as possible. In the end he ended up part of a big fight a one of my bodyguards killed him. I proceeded to "aggressively demote" said bodyguard.
Imagine if a mafia or gang-related games use this kind of system for the hierarchy. So you climb up from the bottom, intimidate other members or enemy and eventually became the boss.
Also if i remember correctly when i played it, the Godfather game from 2006 PS2 got hierarchy mechanic where you rank up from Outsiders to Don of New York. It's so fun taking over the other gang turf and progress trought the ranks.
I can also imagine a superhero game where villains and heroes have a hierarchy. And as a new metahuman, you rise and fall as you build your own legend.
@@austinjnr2775 let's hope they make something new with this. And they perfect it for a sequel to the Hogwarts Legacy games because they owe us a story after kidnapping our Main Character to do as they wanted.
@@Quincy_Morris Why? You saying people would rather use boring ideas than good ideas? If people can patent their good ideas, then there's less incentives to make those ideas better or to actually use those ideas.
Dude, I got a Olog once hat legit came back 5 fucking times, maybe even more I don't even know 4 of those times where by my hand, and that included the execution finisher where ya cut off a couple of limbs and his head, and I went "Surely he's dead now" And nope, he came back After that I recruited him, and then he came back after being killed by some other captain At that point I just went "Fuck it, he'snever gonna die"
I loved that game. But I stopped playing after I finished the story, I had some "orc story" but I got tired after a lot of hours and I decided to stop leveling and just finish the main story. I still remember that piece of sh*t lvl 72, I had to conquer everything on the area to kill him. The first times I died were so stupid but he became so hard after that. And the betrayals were fun.... I killed all of them >:( ......
@@flaviocampos3581 I once deleveled a captain like 5 times because I didn't want to kill him after he betrayed me, and he had the iron will perk after all those times, even after the fith when I drove him mad. Decided to keep him around as a meme as he was super underleveled compared to the rest so I said "Fuck it, I'll let him live" Toatally didn't come back to bite me in the ass later...
I think the real treasure was pressing R2+triangle to brutalize an orc and cackle maniacally as their brothers/friends run in horror, terrified from seeing their friend get stabbed in the neck 43 times.
Ar-Karo’s story sounds compelling, a rise in power, from a simple trooper, to a powerful captain, to an undying monster, to a faithful companion, to an immortal overlord
Reminds me of that video about the opposite, an orc who starts off as a level 60 member of talion's army but his attempt to save his brother leads him to lose everything, even his mind Someone in the comments did a whole 3 paragraph breakdown of it
I still remember in my original playthrough of Shadow of Mordor, there was this uruk called Zunn Blackheart that would always come and fight me. Zunn and I would exchange battles, sometimes of me killing him and other times the other way around. Zunn would ambush me in the wild, and his body parts being replaced with more machines as the days gone by and of me killing him multiple times. Eventually at the end of the story before I fight the Hand, Zunn fought me for the one last time and I finally cut his head off. What a glorious system, this
Lovely. You reminded me 'Telling Stories with Systems" video, in which Mark told us how great epic narrative can emerge from games that don't have a plot at all, like Civilization.
@@victormorales2172 I’m planning to give it a playthrough soon after watching this video! Just really caught up with life at the moment due to Covid. I played Shadow of war back in 2015 so it’s been a while and I’m quite excited for it.
Exactly the same thing happened to me! They made me think I killed my greatest enemy off, and then BOOM, there he is with an orc spec ops squad, right before the boss fight. Still one of my most memorable moments ever.
Small chance to cheat death? In Mordor, I killed a orc named "... the Unkillable" over 7 times and he kept coming back until his face and body were covered with metal plates, scars and others. He really lived up to his name
He didn’t just cheat death, he became unkillable. I believe it can only happen once in a save so it’s extremely rare and it just makes cheating death more common on only that one orc.
SOW had one of my favorite gameplay moments to this date. I raided a fortress and the Orc Warchief taunted me with my "spy" held hostage and executed him in front of our army. Only I never put a spy in his fortress. He killed his own captain and made the takeover easier for ME. It was fantastic. The nemesis system rules
It'd be interesting to see someone make another push in this direction using text-to-speech, the resources needed are much less and for "monster" voices they usually work fine since you can filter it until it sounds right.
It sucks that the Nemesis System has only been used in one franchise and nothing else. Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War are some of the best action games I’ve ever played, and at least 1/3 of why is because of the Nemesis System. The closest thing we’ve seen when it comes to replication of this system was the bounty hunter system in Assassin’s Creed Odyssey, which was just a lazy husk of what the Nemesis System actually was, and Watch Dogs Legion, which was more of a “playable character” system. Here’s hoping Monolith’s next game continues the Nemesis System cause the system is fantastic.
@@dazzle9712 i don't think it's any close to compare, kuva lich literally won't affect anything in the game except if you choose to fight him yourself.
I love the nemesis system. One time i was attacking my nemesis, aka my punching bag, and about t shame him for the fifth time. BUT, then a captain ambushed me to tell me he was betraying me. And then 3 other captains showed up immediately after him to say they were betraying me too. I died by them, and then spend a few hours hunting them down one by one and shaming them down to humiliating obscurity, who all either die by accident or instant mortality weaknesses. Love it.
I had a single betrayal so far, and when it happened i just shamed him repeatedly. I shamed him so much he broke and could only repeat a single phrase, "Angry" his name became the deranged and went from level 6, to level 58, jesus christ man.
It's even more impressive considering that the game is fully dubbed to other languages, with quality voice acting too. I'm playing sow in spanish for latin america, and it was a pleasant surprise to hear some of the most talented voices from the dubbing industry around here.
Let's add to the fact that Overlords can get anxious to a spy in his ranks to the point he will kill a captain or warchief thinking he's a spy. The dialogue of one of your orc will be along the lines of "We didn't put any spy there. He just killed one of his defenders."
I don't get it right why, in these weeks, everytime I play an online feud, I always find Captains with the Iron Will trait. It's really annoying! I can't recruit any of them anymore, and the only thing I usually do is to shame them.😡
The bad point is when they cheat death and betray you they all got the "Iron Will" trait... and if you lvl them doen they may lose some resistances along the way ... i usually just kill them when they came back
Kind of. You can spoil someone new to the game by telling him what surprises the orcs have in store for him. So for instance, someone would never expect a breakdancing orc, but now that he is told about one appearing in general, he will not be as surprised to see it himself.
@@eothorn3217 sadly no. But, there's a title called "The friendly" and he's just a bud everytime you encounter him he goes "Hey man, how about we just talk it out?" "Yo, you're pretty cool, can we like, not fight and stuff?". Your priority must be to recruit him and keep him safe.
Broke an Immortal orc once and he got stuck in a loop. I shamed him so much he wanted to die but couldn’t. Then he developed a “fear of the Gravewalker”, so he would show up randomly, beg me to kill him then realize he is supposed to be scared of me and run away.
I had one orc that I shamed so much he became deranged and kept saying "Mix it up, you mix it up". He was level 85 and I shamed him until he was level 1.
Holy crap this is the most liked comment I’ve ever got. Since you guys liked it show much I’ll tell you guys how my immortal orc finally stayed dead. One time when he was running away I summoned a Drake and it so happened to spawn directly in the path he was running. Of course he had a deadly weakness to fire with his level being so low. The drake burned him to a crisp and for whatever reason (maybe because it wasn’t me that killed him that time? I don’t know. ) that was the death that stuck.
One of the coolest orc encounters I had was this one orc bodyguard I was hunting down. I revealed a handful of information on him then behind me I heard, “Ranger! Find anything interesting??” Then I proceeded to turn him into my own spy
I wish you talked more about the deranged trait. There’s a sliding scale that pushes the orc afflicted to go more and more crazy. It’s really cool and a bit haunting
I had a very tragic storyline similar to GMT's "Stitch", except my Olog betrayed me, gained the ability to nullify being turned, and was eventually driven mad. His high Player Interaction score caused him to be repeatedly brought back to life, to be a huge nuisance to me in whatever late game encounter I was doing. He gradually lost his mind through his brushes with death until eventually he was a gibbering mad blob capable of only one thought: kill the gravewalker. I had taken this proud being, broken it's will, forced it to fight for me in arena matches, placed it in charge of my most powerful fortress; of course he rebelled against my iron hand! Twice broken, he was doomed to wander the lands as an exile; his once noble spirit destroyed and his keen mind shattered, his only thought revenge against the human who had made him into this wretched thing. He was finally slain during his ambush on my ambush - by his replacement bodyguard, some recent recruit hastily pressed into my service that despite his stats, would never reach the glory of his predecessor. As a player, I was so frustrated to have this happen! I made this guy into the power that he is, and now he's my immortal surprise nemesis? He was so cool, and funny, and now I just dreaded seeing him scream "ARGABLAGADAAA!!" and extend a simple encounter into a ten minute slog. Defeating him would only mean hearing him scream at me again 30 minutes later. It felt like the game giving me a huge middle finger. His story, though, was so powerful and tragic that it's stuck with me for years! It was a real, "wait, am I the baddie?" moment where I realized that Talion was just Sauron in a different form. 😲
i've always wanted to try this game, & 18:30 has convinced me to buy it. I am a HUGE fan of compelling procedural stories. I can't wait to play it, get inspired, & get sued for trying to innovate making some inspired indie game 🙃
The Nemesis System in a Batman game with the “Nemeses” being crime lords of various gangs would be incredible. Imagine starting with Carmine Falcone, Penguin, Black Mask, and others as “Overlords” and as the game evolves, cool new procedurally generated Batman villains and gangsters rise through the ranks.
The game was always fun, people just deprived themselves of the experience for the longest time because of the arguably ridiculous overreaction to the market back when the game came out.
@@chrismarple How? You could buy Orc's and chest with items (nothing that you cant have with regular playing), but there wasn't option ''buy this and win the game''.. And it is solo player game, so who cares about microtransaction.
I remember doing the arena mission in shadow of war for my first time. I defeated all the other captains and then HE walked in, Grublik the Immovable. Responsible for dozens of my deaths, has killed my favorite captains on several occasions and has caused me to rage quit Shadow of Mordor entirely. So when he walked into the arena with his spear and shield I, no joke, turned off the game for a day because I knew what was bound to pursue. The next day after hours of trial and error I was finally able to defeat him only for him to cheat death and remain in my game until the final mission against sarron and his army. And this is the reason I love the nemesis system. It can create situations like that and can leave an impact on peoples playthroughs.
There was this one cunt that i couldnt beat killed me like 40 times so instead i recruited him because i was tired of dealing with him after i recruited him i got a trophy named "If you can't beat them" lowkey my most humiliating moment in gaming afterwards i banished him and made him turn insane and killed him he cheated death... kuga the machine
@@K4inan no you don’t understand. I played on this one save. For a WHILE. I swear the game learned. This one guy had everything I hated to fight against. Also I may be very bad at the game but I’m pretty sure being bad at the game makes the game better.
The video has been out for a while and I am not sure if anyone will see it, but I just wanted to leave the story of Pushkrimp the "Many Titles" here: Upon entering the fourth zone of the game for the first time I was ambushed by an epic level Uruk named "Pushkrimp the Sickly". His body was swollen and green which gave him a unique look so after beating him with relative ease (he was an archer and not that strong for an epic orc) I shamed him to a lower level so that I could recruit him later. Before I even got to do that he fulfilled a mission, which involved killing some Caragor and became "Pushkrimp the Beast Slayer" complete with a nice animal hat that covered his deformed head. I was quite impressed by his quick recovery from being shamed and recruited him for good. Together we killed and recruited quite a few Captains until I decided that it was time to go after one of the Warchiefs. I obviously wanted to take Pushkrimp, my best follower, with me and sent him to infiltrate. The time for the challenge came and we faced the Warchief and his two bodyguards. Things started out well with Pushkrimp quickly taking care of the first bodyguard, a rather imposing Olog, and executing him with his crossbow. However, when the other two enemies were almost down a third orc (that's another story but the guy is a real bastard, believe me) ambushed me and put me in the ground with his "No Chance" Trait. That stung a bit, but the feast held by the Warchief offered me a chance for revenge. When I finally had him cornered Pushkrimp showed up out of nowhere, and betrayed me at the worst moment, calling out my weakness. In his mind, he had already surpassed me when I died in front of him and now he was his own Uruk again. With some trouble, I managed to fight back until Pushkrimp made an escape. After taking care of the Warchief I started to hunt him down. He had been my best guy and I wanted him back. However, as it turned out his betrayal had given him an iron will, which I had to break first. After numerous encounters, in some of which I had to fail the finishing moves to keep him alive, I got my Pushkrimp back, although he was "The Shamed" now. The orc hunt continued for a time with him at my side and it felt just like before. Unfortunately, the good times came to a brutal halt, when I engaged multiple captains in an ambush. The fighting got really chaotic and at some point, Pushkrimp must have gotten killed. I only realized it when looking at the army screen after the battle and it was quite a shock. I had wanted to make him Overlord at some point to reward him for his help, but now he had just died in a manner that was not spectacular at all, hell, I had not even seen it. Luckily it was not my last meeting with Pushkrimp. When I was about to take down another Warchief he showed up on his Caragor, cheating death and betraying me at the same time, because I had abandoned him on the battlefield and now he wanted revenge. His newly revived self was quite over-leveled and we had our most hard-fought fight yet. In the end, I still succeeded and decided to shame him, because I wanted him back in my ranks. That proved to be a bit much and poor Pushkrimp broke, turning into "the Ruined". For now, I am debating what to do with him: I would really like to make him Overlord, although he won't care anymore. At the same time, I would like to see what kind of nemesis he can become for me if I leave him to continue his hunt. And then there is the option of finally delivering his scarred body and soul the mercy he deserves. He always had a point when he betrayed me after all. Only, I am not sure if I can even kill him at this point...
I almost had the same experience with Pushkrimp (yea, i meet with an orc with the same name). He was also swollen, but in my game he carried a giant spear and a shield. I play this game that; if i found a cool looking orc then i command him to my side, but Pushrimp was neither cool nor interesting at first so i just killed him without any struggle. Obviously he then came back for revenge and he looked even more disgusting, but it was my first playthrough in Shadow of War, and this was my first connection with an orc so i decided to keep him with me. He was my number one bodyguard, we killed many uruks, gologs, caragors together. I had a lot of fun with him by always prioritizing to keep him alive which gave an extra challenge for the game... until one day he betrayed me, and i was so angry with him that i humiliated him to something like lvl4. After that he couldn't talk, only babling in himself - i took his mind and drove him crazy. I could not decide what to do with him so i just ignored him for sometime. After Pushkrimp betrayal and madness i focused on the main story of conquering the first fort. Unfortunately Pushkrimp died in that first battle... but i feel that after my massive humilliation towards him, death was the best option that he could have had.
I’ve gotten so many amazing stories from this game I have around 182 hours I believe from me just killing captains and conquering everything in Mordor. I now almost have all regions completely controlled with all slots filled with friendly captains that all have amazing stories and character developments. I remember my friend and I playing this game for hours on end during sleepovers as we’d do the craziest of shit and meet the funniest of captains and have just an all around fun time. I must say that one of my most old and favorite of captains in this game that I have is Amûg the Head Lopper. I’ve had this captain since the very start of my playthrough and I do not regret it. I’ve taken this guy all over Mordor to help take all of the fortresses and help slay all overlords and warchiefs, he was my right hand as we’d saved each other more times than I can count. Now after his long adventure he’s had, I’ve set him as overlord of Cirith Ungol of the Terror citadel, he’s earned it for sure.
Heres my story: My nemisis was "luga of the flies" He was a assassin in a early story mission, and i dropped a fly nest on him and killed him, he came back as "luga of the flies" (He was called something else before, but l don't remember it), with his face and shoulder being F-ed up and "hivey" (11:50). i then killed him 2 more times, cutting off his arms and legs (each time giveing me a legendary item) (he came back with a 3 pronged metal hand after one of these dismemberments (2:10 for example)). by the 4th time i encountered him, l decided l NEEDED to make him mine, so the next 2 times he ambushed me, l ran (5 encounters in all during the minis ithil arc/C1). Time passed, and eventualy, he became overlord of the area next to minus mogul. And i'm happy to say, he still is, though under my control. Edit: I think it might have been him!: 1:00 (though, i think the level is a bit too high)
My story starts with a little orc captain in shadow of mordor called "Mogg rock crusher" I decided to do some exploring after doing a handful of missions at the start of the game, and i found Mogg. I co uldnt brand him cause it was early game, so i killed him. He came back of course, and i killed him again. I think around this point i did the prompt and moved him to shadow of war, but anyway, i kept playing. I killed him again, and again, and again, until he was messed up, barely living, and i killed him for good. Or so i thought. I played Shadow of war, and during the arena mission, who would show up but Mogg rock crusher, looking like he did when i must of accidentally moved him to shadow of war or something. So i killed him to progress, a nd later he came back as mogg the hook. I lost to him, and he got killed by the mysterious savior tribute guy. Then i did the mission with the necromancer orc, and i was sad to see mogg among the undead, meaning it would be impossible to recruit him. To this day, he was the orc i had the longest feud with, and is pretty much the face of this series for me.
I knew a orc once. First name Tärz. I thought I'd kill him but Instead he killed me. I found his new place and shamed him. He ambushed me later on and I accidentally killed him with poison. He cheated death and become Tärz the poisoned, I proceeded to shame him when he became deranged. I decided I'd tracked him down and shame him again, when I started searching he ambushed me now babbling like an idiot, that was when I he died of poisoning again. I was bummed as I wanted to shame him. Cut to half hour later and he ambushes me again when in the heat of battle I used his mortal weakness against him and stealth killed him. I thought for sure he was dead and joking thought "if he comes back I'll recruit him and make him my overlord." Wouldn't you believe it he comes back and I do exactly that. What a spectacular game. The amount of awesome stories you get makes the price tag worth it.
"First, it's important that you can actually remember and distinguish between these different orcs" I reinstalled Shadow of War after going over a year without playing it and my save had been stored on the cloud so it was still available. I was very surprised at how many of the orcs in that save I remembered, even when revisiting starting locations.
10:52 Even though this was a pre-written and pre-recorded line, you only experienced it as a result of a procedural generation system. And yet it gave me chills like it was a major story moment, because of the connection you conveyed through your telling of your playthrough.
Honestly, Shadow of War is a brilliant game, not just the Nemesis system. The combat is fantastic with how much variety and power its willing to give you, the artdirection is superb and only adds on the style of the movies, and the story is suprisingly emotional at times. The ending is one of the few that ever managed to make me shed a tear.
I kinda wanted to dominate Sauron and take over Mordor but hey the ending we got opens a potential sequel where we can play as Nazgul Talion and dominate humans instead of Orcs in the pursuit of the One Ring, that would be AWESOME!
Shadow of war managed to redeem the story of the series. Throughout the first game I couldnt help but feel like they were spitting on the themes of the lord of the rings e.g. Power corrupting. They turned it around with the sequel and it actually fits into the world now
I love playing through the game, it's really fun, but I wish there was more endgame content than just orcs and forts. Like when you unlock all your cool necromancy powers you don't get to do anything with them because there's no quests, no people to talk to, no new things other than fortress defence, no nothing. Really fun to replay, but nothing to do but replay
Finally got the answer to: "why isn't the nemesis system in more games?" and kinda sad and disappointed about the answer. I hope somehow, someway other game devs find a way around this patent and maybe even make something better or WB let the patent expired. It honestly feels like they stump alil bit of growth in the gaming community. But, I guess we'll have to see.
its so shitty for a developer as beloved (and one of my personal favorite studios) to just say like "hey this is a great idea... no one else can use it". its not quite like but almost like Infinity Ward saying "hey call of duty 1 is a fantastic game... no one else can ever make first person shooters anymore, because we patented it". Its a rehash of PUBG suing Fortnite, just because they share an immense similarity doesnt mean there aren't key differences in style and substance.
@@quinnmarchese6313 Namco Bandai patented minigames in loading screens, though the patent ran out around 2015ish. Just nobody's really bothered to do any of them in modern titles, since loading is now either front-ended as a one-and-done when you boot up, or is hidden in increasingly clever ways.
It's not as bad you think. Another studio could always purchase use it and sell it as well. But, I do agree that this is shutting out a very cool feature that could be used in unique ways for future titles outside the lotr universe
It is entirely designed to stumt growth. That is the entire purpose of copyright, at least when employed by corporations. Fuck copyright. All it does is stifle creativity.
I had an obsessive Ork who fell in love with my dead body and he kept escaping or coming back from the dead so I recruited him and he’d fight alongside of me constantly complimenting me and mentioning how he loves me but wants to kill me
I'll never forget the orc that gave me the most trouble. Luuga the Wrestler. And the fact that I can remember his name without fail means the Nemesis System is something we need to see more of.
I love how the orcs leading your army comment on it too, like, they look at you and say things like "wait, we didn't have a spy, did we?" "that stupid paranoid just killed one of his own!"
@@RodWaffle I went to kill a Warlord once and he killed one of his own orcs thinking it was an spy. I died, retried it and he killed another one, my spy still alive. When I finally beat him down, my spy said "The shrakh was so paranoid he killed all his allies and trusted me, what an idiot".
One of my best experience’s in the game was in the early game before I got the ring of power. I kill some no name orc captain with fire and he becomes “the flame of war” (strong and badass as hell). He proceeds to kick my ass multiple times and becomes overlord. When I finally get the ring of power within the story he is now the overlord of one of the toughest fortresses in the game. So through the entire campaign I have this rival I am set on fighting. Three forts later I fight through his captain’s and war lords, Infiltrate spies into his fortress only to finally face him in a epic duel and defeat him! One of the best gaming experience’s I’ve ever had.
I gotta say, it was pretty brilliant how, in a video discussing the way the nemesis system creates stories, you use the stories created to make ongoing stories in the video and keep viewers engaged. Halfway through, I was like "damn that Maku, I gotta see how he takes him down now," and then it hit me
I remember being absolute blown away by shadow of war and being convinced that system would show up in loads of games after that. what you've said about trademarking makes alot of sense and is incredibly frustrating
This reminds me, I had a nemesis named Krosh the Machine. The man always came back, he came back five times before I cut off his head and he was dead for good. Then in a later mission, a necromancer revives all your dead nemesises as weak zombies and when I ran into Krosh, instead of the usual zombie gargling, he just. Stared, while the music got more and more intense.
Yeeeah, this happened to me too. The orc that got made into "the Machine" kept coming back again and again, even after chopping his head off, and when I thought I managed to kill him, that necromancer brought him back. NIGHTMARE SHIT.
I think the epilogue is terribly underrated. Spoilers below: The fact that the story there goes on pretty much infinitely, which you could technically say, until Talion joins the Nazgul, is pretty cool imo. The endless amounts of sieges you can play gives it such a real feeling.
I had two Nemesis Orcs that were blood brothers that kept saving each other and kicking my butt so I recruited both of them and ended up making them both really strong teammates of mine and they were my best friends because they saved me alot, miss those guys, I’ll always remember you Bûr and Gûrshu
Up until this day, I never knew there was an interaction in which the orc breaks your sword and you lose it!!! This is such a cool detail, quite a marvel. Like this video! Keep it up, I'm loving these!
Even better, if you get revenge, you get your sword back, 5 levels higher (can even crack the max level that way) and with upgraded rarity. Basically the most powerful weapons of the game can be created by getting it back after being broken
I never played these games, but all I heard was "Yeah, the Nemesis system is pretty cool." I would've never thought that it's actually this deep, dynamic and well executed. The amount of voice-overs that must've been made for this is just incredible. It seem very underappreciated.
There are around 300+ different personalities, all of them with 40 unique voicelines + generic voicelines shared by orcs interpreted by the same voice actor, so... Yeah, it took A LOT of effort that was underappreciated because of controversy :c
The game really does build a relationship between you and the orcs. When an orc first betrayed me, I shamed him over and over into oblivion out of anger. When my Architect died, I nearly cried. Still miss that bearded old olog wearing a Tudor flat cap.
Loved hearing about the villains generated in your adventures and it makes me really curious to try the games. Thanks for the video and what I can only imagine was a ton of time spent delving into the system!
The actual gameplay is pretty awful TBH. Their main way of changing/growing the orcs is making them increasingly invincible. In the first game it's fine because they gain resistances slowly over the game. Maybe a warchief will have invincibility to some type of attack and resistance to some other. In the second game that's every random captain, and instead higher lvl enemies are just invincible to every attack type but one. It sucks all the fun out of the game frankly. No creativity, no skill, just do what it tells you to.
@@compassionatecurmudgeon7025 Maybe stop it with the misinformation? The orcs in the second game function the same, they gain strengths and lose weaknesses as they level up and Talion also gains abilities that allows him to more easily take advantage of weaknesses that the orcs still have. And on that topic, the system is set up so orc captains will have a minimum of three weaknesses even at maximum level - and that is without taking into consideration the things that captains will never be able to adapt or be invulnerable to such as the spectral glaive - there is never a point where a captain will only have one weakness, it is quite literally hard coded that way. Invincibilities also only last as long as captains are not dazed or afraid of anything since their fear overrides their strengths. Maybe your experience comes from fighting hacked online orc captains?
@@MyDreamCrusher I mean they function the same, except start higher level and have more strengths and less weaknesses from the word go. Yes, there are technically multiple weaknesses, they're often environmental weaknesses that aren't an immediate or practical option. It still feels deeply artificial and restrictive. Perhaps it wouldn't have killed the game for me on its own, but the plot also left me completely cold and I completely didn't care which generic orc was the leader of a faction that doesn't move or do anything that would depend on the nature of its leadership. To put a finer point on it: Those invincibility attributes force you to take a slower pace and think, which doesn't help when stopping to think makes you see all the seams in the narrative and gameplay. It broke the magic and left me just seeing everything as hours of wasted time rather than challenges to overcome. The nemesis system is a neat trick, but it doesn't actually *do* anything. The impacts that it has on the game world are minor and unpredictable, as such it offers no new choices to the player. It does autogenerate the equivalent of flavor text for the generic bosses. Sure they added fancy graphics, but there are plenty of more intricate and impressive interactions in gaming. Heck, dwarf fortress generates a history before each game that creates major historical figures, sees empires rise and fall, betrayals, environmental disasters etc. and then also generates structures, people, and towns in accordance with that history. My experience was sitting unmoved as the game acts like a crackhead fisherman with no arms arms and no legs, throwing plot hooks out time and time again sloppily by mouth and with no strength. None of them ever get close. Eventually I just feel sorry for the metaphorical game paraplegic wiggling on the dock. 'You're not enjoying this either are you buddy?' *muffled affirmation noises* 'Remember the hobbits buddy?' *calmer affirmation noise* 'Think about the hobbits...' *muffled* 'hobbitses?' 'Yea' *BANG*
Some of the best parts of it are the things that can go completely forgotten or unmentioned, from captains you walked out on that way later when you re-enter their zone will reference how time has passed and you're both more then you used to be. how in secret many captains are willing (or desperate to prove themselves) to be challenged by you. i even had interactions where i got scolded by one captain for going after another. along the lines of "Hey you should have paid attention to me!" and above all, Captain's loyalty. it is a painfully difficult thing to get. and you can lose it in an instant. but its beyond satisfying to tag along with your mates. fighting off all Mordor has to offer and promote one of them to be a warchief only for them to suddenly jump out and save you when your about to get killed. genuine emotion comes from that. the highs and lows.
My favourite olog, whom I considered my hand, and took a while to get and who I really wanted for a bit. I used him to fight in pits for loot and while I overlooked my citadel which he helped fight for, he betrayed me and I fled. I shamed him and to my dismay, he became a maniac. I had to kill him.
@@videoms1271 Aw that sucks bud, been there and had to do alot of experimenting with the nemesis system before i got to understand their loyalty, and even then it can just be a bugger of a suprise when they do turn their coat again. can you try finding an older save or do you have him in your garrison too? that way you could try again.
Shadow of Mordor brought me one of my most memorable rivals, “Mozu the Mountain”. No matter how many times I killed him, he wouldn’t stop returning, eventually he quite literally was a metal mountain with how many scars I put on him. He was “the machine” but twice as armored. It wasn’t just me destroyed him over and over again, he was killing me regularly as well. I sent 3 captains and myself just to kill him. Then, I stopped playing Mordor and switched to War. A year or two later I came back to Mordor to finish the game. On one of the final missions, he returned. After all of these years, I saw my worst nightmare once again. But after playing Shadow of War, my skill has greatly improved. I easily put him down one, final, time…
@Psycho restart the game have a good time trying new ones, see if you can point the game in the right direction by Purposely dying to an orc or Something along those lines to get The story to build. That's what I did When my stories got boring.
I have met an ork on the very beggining in Minas Ithil. He was enraged by everything which made him hard to kill, hard to posess and he killed me a few times, and vice versa. He kept coming back until I finally got him into my ranks, upgraded him, made him a bodyguard. But the nemesis relation must go on, so he betrayed me, I killed him, and he is yet to be seen again Come back Tuka the survivor I miss you
I killed such an ork at the beginning of my first playthrough. He was revived by Zog the eternal and immediately killed everyone he could reach, including Zog.
The epilogue actually offers a lot of interesting things with the nemesis system, you can consider it a test of how much you interacted with your own followers because they will for once matter. Additionally sieges are some of the most brutal experiences out there and can lead to the presence of new nemesis orcs and the death of beloved followers at the hands of potential new ones. While I dont like how the orcs never react to your new *theme* its made up for when considering just how deep it is in other places. TLDR epilogue is worth it.
You can have interactions with followers, you just need to make sure you fight alongside them and not let them do all the work, show them why your in charge and you'll notice a change in their behavior.
You can walk around the fortress to see them drinking and singing with the troops, sharing anecdotes, mock-fighting each other, bullying slaves, etc. you can even call in your bodyguard and if you just walk alongside him he'll start talking to you
it's sad that the only thing remembered about shadow of war is the lootboxes even though, they're gone. replayed it last year and had so much fun with the nemesis system
@@ToxicBastard I blame Kotaku and Polygon's reviews of the game, they were the ones who initially suggested that the endgame of SoW took "tens of hours to complete" (if you are that bad just play on a different difficulty setting, but in reality they probably didn't even know the game had those) and that the loot boxes somehow allowed you to "skip the grind" which was not even remotely true. Jim and tons of other reviewers just ran with these headlines because it fit their narrative.
@@TheMasterMind144 exactly, the sieges were awesome but hard, especially if you had shit orcs and forgot to upgrade stuff, so obviously it's going to be hard for a game journalist who plays like a child. Whenever a journo complains something is too hard I make a mental note that it's probably not a game my mum could play, because that's all it means; like Yahtzee criticised Overlord 2 for its spider temple puzzle (something I beat as a child) I have to wonder: does being a journalist make games ten times harder or something?
I haven't played the shadow series in a long time( i should probably finish it one day) but nothing will ever beat my first play through where I killed an orc who was afraid of bees with bees and have that same orc show up 5 hours later covered in bee stings looking for my head. Magnificent
Unfortunately they've been trying at it for years now and kept getting rejected. But it seems they finally found one judge who agreed to pass it. I wonder how....😑
@@spiritorange8325 copyrighting game systems is a prick move since it would be like if call of duty or halo copyrighted the fps genre or more accurately if titanfall or mirrors edge copyrighted advance movement the nemesis system could spawn an entire sub-genre for the rather stale button mashers like batman and mordor if they were allowed to grow but that claim is going to hamper alot of studios
Not really. A patent is really promising as it means there could be potentially a new addition to the series or a spin off or side game featuring the system. There are also ways in practice to get round it. Many games have copied the system and there have been no court battles yet. Regardless, the games are still in their eyes after all this time.
It’s great to have long relationships with the other characters and a game that remembers your actions. It’s a pity that so many of the interactions are about negative reactions. How would this look like with positive interactions? Eg teach each other something new, exercise together, organise a party together, listen to each others story.
Actually now that I think about it, the nemesis system, but focused on wholesome stuff is something I need. I unironically think this can work in something like GTA (maybe in 6 but that's coming out after I pass away so) where it acts as a more fun way of making side activity/side content and is essentially a way to encourage the player to take a break from committing 6th degree muder for no reason. Maybe I want it because I'm lonely irl, that'd be crazy....
I remember the first time an Orc saved my life, I was so thankful I made him overlord, and buffed him slightly, as I was already deciding whether or not I should keep my current. It was such an incredible relief.
I was so motivated to try to add a system like this into my game, only to find out they put a patent on it. AAA disgusts me sometimes. It’s such a broad system. That is not ok.
Just do it. I think the patent has been in pending status for six years, and other AAA studios are already releasing lite versions of it. Plus, if it ever were granted and enforced, a big studio sued would easily invalidate those shit-tier claims in court before you even show up on the radar of WB's lawyers. Gameplay lawsuits are unheard of anyway, except for big deals like the battle royale genre. Seriously, it's impossible to build trivial things like a generic online shop without violating over a dozen patents. Just don't worry unless the holder is known to enforce it, or you'll never release anything. (Also, death to the assholes who stopped ventilator production in the EU during the pandemic because the devices used metaphorical tabs for the UI. That's literally the whole patent: tabs for the UI of medical equipment.)
@@samcook6250 That sounds neat, actually. I'm guessing each faction would have some sort of hero units that can get promoted over the course of a campaign. I'd say the cool thing about doing it on an RTS is that even your own heroes can be made part of the system.
Same here. But I am also worried that it might be to big a workload for an indie game. Though I was also inspired somewhat by One Piece. Since its a western game I thought it be fun to generate outlaws like mii fighters and give them titles. When a low level gang member escapes or kills you they would have a chance to get a title like Zane the swift legs and their bounty would rise. Their bout could get higher over time and they would become more infamous with more wanted posters and npcs talking about them
I recruited an undead Olog from another player's game. He was absolutely god tier. My undefeated bodyguard and the leader of my armies. UNTIL I was ambushed by one captain while hunting a different captain. They downed me, causing my god tier bodyguard to betray me. My greatest ally who I kind of cheesed to even have in the first place suddenly became the ultimate villain of my whole campaign. I kind of hope someone recruited him from my game as well so his legacy never ends.
One of my favorite stories is when I was playing, there was this one general that just kept killing me. Eventually I would beat him and decapitate him. I was finally so relieved to have gotten rid of him. Until I was clearing out an area, then there was an encounter, I read the name, saw his face and was horrified. I quickly thought, HOW ARE YOU ALIVE I DECAPITATED YOU. He then replies with like they sewed his head back on or something. A gaming story I'll never forget.
Oh! I did my thesis on this, looking through the lense of dance choreography to see how many concepts would stick. These games (taking Mordor to be the prologue to War's larger systems) are unprecedented in how continuously and comprehensively everything is always meaningfully moving and adapting, while the player is pushed to continuously move and adapt as well. Like an improv group tango on a tiny seesaw dancefloor, rolling around on a ball. Even down at the navigation level, you're constantly prompted to adapt to patrol routes and hunts, or to rush off before folk come to investigate your activities, all the while knowing that enemies will actively learn and adapt to however you've been playing the game. This comes in directly when choosing between the many ways to defeat or avoid every enemy, as every enemy is uniquely weak or strong to each specific buttonprompt, modifier, and combo move available just then. All the way up at the macro level, standing still or using the menu systems never happens without the rest of the gameworld moving along and learning, and every single thing you do gets quantified with a different kind of ability unlock tokens that changes the playing field again. Lots of games have all this stuff, but in no other game is every dynamic bit so tightly balanced and linked to every other bit across so many layers of scale. Moreover, everything, even paratextual menu stuff, is explicitly diegetic and meaningful. The whole thing becomes this epic of a guy resisting, but thereby only integrating deeper into Sauron's necromantic hellscape trap. There's themes of toxic macho masculinity being an endless torment here, of bigman power plays condemning you to a life of weakness and repeat death. All the while, Tolkien's unspoken orc world gets humanized and perfectly slotted into that original author's metaphysical intent and racial pantheon, as this kind of gleefully vulgar postcolonial war-elf parable that Tolkien would've never wanted to directly describe in his day. And they even do fitting new craft and language philosophy stuff! My Tolkien soul was content. And the thesis well enough received.
Wow - that is excellent work. I can imagine that you had a memorable and interesting thesis defense when discussing how you related the game mechanics as designed by the developer into a critique of how this fits into Tolkien's literary themes. It would be really interesting to sit in on a thesis defense in which your faculty committee had professors who are interested in game design along with literary scholars who have deep knowledge of Tolkien's work. Congratulations on generating an interesting thesis (and just for completing it - as that is no small accomplishment)!
@@rayjones1455 Oh no the whole process of doing this was a mess : ) I had game studies tutors who couldn't seem to follow along with me trying out new terms to describe games with, and who admittedly never did understand dance. Then my other tutors were theatre/dance experts who hadn't ever considered games. And no one had any interest in Tolkien, or in these games specifically. I burned out hard situating my work as broadly yet meaningfully as possible in these three separate fields, so everyone could keep up and provide input. Because I was making such impressive extra effort, I suppose, everyone just kept encouraging me to keep going like that, and I ended up only finishing a fragment of the work when I got my grades and had to quit academia for health reasons. The project came together well enough for me, but I don't imagine anyone who tutored me actually got the full picture and intent. Thanks for the compliments though, mr. Jones : ) Really appreciate it. I might one day do that full comparison of Mordor to MarioMaker, Last Guardian, and NobyNoby Boy, to round out a logical model of radically opposed rubrics for fully meaningful, dance-like systems of player movement direction in games.
I've played this game on two different computers over a few hundred hours, I've never seen "the Stitch" as a title. Not once. This game continues to surprise me, even years later.
I played this game recently because of this video. I poisoned a barrel and then an alchemist captain appeared behind me and said "thats not how you do it mate" it was so surprising and interesting
I really want more living systems like this. Another dream I always had playing Elder Scrolls: Bandits actually go out and make decisions, if they pillage and win, they take their spoils, whether it was gear or goods/money to be traded with sleazy merchants, they actually use that gear and maybe start to snowball. Eventually, they start recruiting more and their faction controls a lot of the land. Though, with certain scalability factors taken into account, not everyone is gonna become a bandit and they can only reproduce and supply food to a certain extent, the nation, guilds and freelancers trying to get rid of bandits also adjust their response appropriately, to keep threats they recognize in check. If Bandits become so unified it's boring, then internal conflict arises and they split up again, some camps going independent altogether. They'd then also actually pose problems to the player, the world state could even get partially ''ruined'' if you let them get powerful enough to come together to clear a small village or take out somewhat vital npc's, which would take away trading options etc. for the player. Ideally we'd then also have a town population system, and responses from the nation at large to take the town back if still occupied, and then rebuild and repopulate, with new traders/craftsment etc. and their own traits as well as how those traits fare in the environment. All of that happening in real time, though things can be simplified into numeric simulations when away from the player, as long as it's accurate enough and takes significant and precitable enough factors into account. For example, the chance they'd find a bear on their route to a small town, and how much of a number that would reasonably do on them in their state, little things like that. Taking factors we have a hand in into account is also important, if we helped a faction set up shop, that's a much bigger issue than a bear, this would be very satisfying to interact with. If it's a game with a lot of differences in kind rather than differences in values, it's gonna become hard to meaningfully quantify a lot of factors though, but I don't think these bandits have to be all that complicated and mostly just fluctuate in stats, with a few special resources like ranged weapons, stealth and a few kinds of utilitarian magic, as long as one side of the equation is simple, the interactions shouldn't be too hard to predict with an acceptable margin of error. Different patrols and arising conflicts etc. simulated all around the world, until you get close enough and it transitions into a true in-game event, or alternatively, somehow reach the levels of performance required to fully run it all without abstraction... Incredibly ambitious and I've definitely learned not to expect things like this to work anytime soon (No Man's Sky/early Starbound/supposed Skyrim prototypes etc.), but I hope one day it becomes feasible. When Skyrim came around, a lot of word was going around about a dynamic civil war, I thought they'd finally start making small steps towards systems like this, seemed like the next step up from Oblivion's janky attempts at dynamic systems with a sense of life to them, but alas. Of course, that's a lot of processing required, assuming you can even create a stable enough ecosystem with interesting interactions to begin with, but I just know there's some nerds somewhere out there trying to crack these problems without compromising what makes it so interesting.
When you recognise the absolute potential of the Nemesis System being implented into different games....but are constantly dissapointed by fads like Battle Royale & mobile gaming & microtransactions overshadowing it. WHY WON'T DEVS & PUBLISHERS SEE THE POTENTIAL OF THE NEMESIS SYSTEM?! Edit: *Video mentions Monolith have a patent for Nemesis System* .....Oh. That makes sense, but still; I'd still enjoy seeing it implemented in other game genres, stories and themes, to explore the seemingly endless possibilities of the "faceless/nameless grunts" actually having a purpose past something to shoot/kill/defeat, and have some character to them.
And there’s a sanity meter patent from Eternal Datkness and here we have games like Amnesia who use their own version of it. I say screw patent law, long live inspired plagiarism.
Idk, the system is certainly neat but in my playthrough I just demolished every orc on our first encounter and thus didn't get to witness any real narrative. The closest it ever came was sometimes an orc would cheat death just to give me the chance to decapitate him a second time. My big "nemesis" in the story was some orc I didn't even recognize.
@@Clownbelt-u2s I came to know that there were patent for game system because of this. It is ridiculous. And i agree with you screw patent law, long live inspired plagiarism.
@@creativecredence850 This is a weakness of the nemesis system, If you are very good or are in late game things can get boring. But we can hope that the system will grow more because of advancement in gaming industry and it will get more perfected
After learning the system and hearing improv all I thought about was “They could finally make a half decent D&D game” with a much more complicated version of just a nemesis. It would need like a really good ally system and a unique quest generation option (or it could be fan made like the recent AC games).
Funnily enough I was thinking of using SoW to best explain how D&D works to people who never played before simply because it captures that "the player makes the story" energy so well.
I had an orc in shadow of war named Narug the merciful. He would always humiliate me but never killed me. He would always run. Finally, after many death threats, I killed him. He was the greatest enemy I’ve ever face and, even though he was fun, I was glad to see him go. Later on, I was walking around my fort and listening to the orcs speak to each other. One of my captains were at a bonfire, I went to see what he wanted to say, after hearing it I left through the gate, but, suddenly enemies appeared out of nowhere and then I saw him, Narug the merciful, still alive and well. I was shocked he was still alive. Swiftly, he killed one of my favourite captains, the one at the fire, he was with me since the beginning and helped me the most during the siege of the fort, cutting his head off so I couldn’t resurrect him. I was saddened but, at the moment, filled with rage and revenge. I attacked fast and hard until I finally got him on his knees, the last word the scum said was “You were lucky, ranger” after all I did, he still didnt respect me. Tbh I was happy when my sword penetrated his heart.
I remember facing a foe in the snowy mountains. Rakuka the Black-Tooth. He was too much for me, but as I awaited death, it did not come. He declared that I was a waste of energy, and walked away. Naturally I was furious, but what could I do against an enemy who was 13 levels above me. I decided to press onwards for the time beings. However, during the final assault on the fort, guess who showed up, Rukuka himself. He sure did talk a lot of smack, saying how he wouldn’t be so merciful this time. After a grueling 1v1 fight, with all my captains watching alongside any remaining enemy prisoners, I managed to down him. He defied death, and tried to finish me, but my blade struck true. He said that he weeped for all the orcs I had killed, and asked if I even gave them a chance like he had given me. I think about that sometimes.
I can't believe how complicated and awesome the nemesis system is. Not only that but the developers had to make assets and write lines for every individual character and possibilities.
I got this game for Christmas and have been playing it for two months. Now I’m about to take on the final boss but I’m not ready to do it yet because I’ve had such an amazing adventure playing it!
Have you tried summoning him just to walk around instead of fighting? He'll randomly start talking from time to time and tell you stories or what he thinks on stuff, and they all have different things to say
Now I understand what made me re-play this game years later. I really enjoyed them the second time around, but just couldn't put my finger on what it was. You nailed it!
@@grigorirasputin6443 I love how you can sneak around and do stealth. When you get caught it's not like you're defense less. The combat and the counters and things you can do just flow really well.
@@grigorirasputin6443 It was a shame. They did take them out. It's kind of like the whole Diablo 3 thing. I'm not a fan of loot boxes but the game was good without buying any. I never struggled playing it without them.
I remember getting killed early on by one of the orcs due to his pretty op traits in shadow of Mordor. After a few attempts of trying to kill the orc and his followers he only got stronger. seeing him at the final showdown mission felt really impactful after all of that time in game.
Noita is so awesome, I'd love to see a GMTK video on it. The ability to make your wands overpowered as hell is satisfying and would make for a good 10-15 minute video I think
They now have a patent for this system, i really hope people contest them on this matter. Patenting intelectual proprety like this is really bad for the advance of the gaming industry
@@randomsimpson Its not that you cant EVER do it with your code its more like "We spent years on this and would like to be paid for that work" (because patent holders can sell their patented ideas and systems to other people)
@@kiddospagaragan9149 Yes, but the problem is the patent is a very vague, broad thing. Which will be used to drain smaller companies that can't afford to go on a battle with a big corporation. Exactly what played out with "minigames on loading screens".
One small thing I really like about the whole hierarchy thing is that when captains get promoted their appearance changes slightly seemingly signifying their new higher rank.
The "enormous" epilogue is mentioned as if it brings down the game, but it was massively shortened and adds in new, unique equipment with special abilities, aswell as unique Orcs in some of the sieges. Otherwise, this video is very, very good
There is probably a moment in this game that gave me one hell of an adventure thanks to the nemesis system I was just chilling in Lithlad going on a rampage killing captains to get gear and sell them for mirian, that was until I infiltrated an outpost and got alerted. I tried to fight back instead of running away with celebrimbor, we had killed over tens of them, but we got outnumbered heavily! I killed and killed until I was finally put down by a Savage orc named Dush. After he killed me, he got promoted to Captain and now became known as “Dush the Wanderer”. He was a poisonous mystic tribe slayer who was enraged by caragors, and had a fear of brutality. He was the cocky type, always scoffing on how he is the best warrior in the land. After tracking him down, he bluffed on how I was so weak and that he would be pleasured to kill me again. However, during our duel, I was able to overpower him and instead of killing him, I decided to shame him, giving him a fate worse than death. He ran away and I went along my way. Days passes and while I was helping my captains raid a camp, he showed up, ambushing us, vowing to me that he will get his revenge, due to the fact that I shamed him, causing him to get bullied by his own men. I overpowered him again, and shamed him again for his actions. The cycle kept continuing, I would track him down, he would track me, I would death threat him, he would ambush my captains trials, etc etc. However, with the amount of shaming I gave him, it caused his sanity to crumble slowly, then on one faithful day, during my captains Graug trial, he ambushed us yet again, and when I shamed him again, this time, the shame was so bad, he became a maniac! He escaped from within my grasp yet again. During this time, Celebrimbor already left me and I was in the Shadow Wars part of the game, I already garrisoned many of my Lithlad captains and warchiefs and transported them to Nurnen, Seregost and Gorgoroth to prepare the defenses, meaning, nobody was left to guard Lithlad besides my overlord. During this time, I was recruiting strong captains, but needed one who was so strong and op, he could hold the front gate all by himself just in case it get breached, thats when I discovered Dush The Wanderer was the perfect Captain I needed for the job. I tracked him down and led an assault on his camp with my captains and my Drake named Phoenix(yes I named my drake ty). After some fighting, I got him on his knees, finally dominating him and now he is one of my captains for my army. We went on many adventures, sabotaging many orc captains camps, their trials and ambushing them when they least expect them. We were a great team. To tell you he is an op orc would be a very big simplification. Since he was a slayer and a savage, his attacks are so fast, so aggressive, and deal so much damage, most captains he faces literally die within seconds, even those that can call in graugs, have epic determination, defender shields, sniper shots, marauder twin bolts or terror tribe chains, they all fell to him, while he barely gets a scratch on him. Since he is also a mystic, he had a morgul blade that lets him teleport and close gaps within a second. Meaning, even if the orc is a marksman or one who can prefers long range or dodging, he can still hit them. Also, since he is now a maniac, all he says is “Waaaaaaaaa!!!”, which was more funny and entertaining to me than his ego driven cocky side that kept taunting me when we were enemies. He also lost his weakness to brutality(mainly because maniacs can lose some of their weaknesses and he is a maniac after all, maniacs aren’t usually scared because they are insane). To reward all his efforts, I upgraded him to Epic(yes, the feats i told you a while ago, where he took dozens of captains in seconds were when he was a measly common, so imagine how strong he can be if he becomes epic or god forbid legendary) , finally giving him an elite gang that is just as aggressive as him. When I lost my fortress at Litlhlad, he is the one who led the charge against Sauron’s army with my men with his “Waaaaaaa!!!!” scream. With his help, we won the 2nd Battle for Lithlad. Everything was going well, until one siege back in Seregost caused 50% of my captains and 2 of my warchiefs to fall. So then, after making some decisions, I transferred Dush The Wanderer to his new region, Seregost. During many siege defenses, he was always the one who held back the enemy captains from capturing Point A, preventing them from progressing through my fortress. I also supported him in many missions just like back in Lithlad, ambushing camps, disturbing enemy orcs activities, doing some trolling, we had many adventures more. However, One day, I was bored and my orc men were bored too. I didn’t feel like going on a rampage with Phoenix or sabotage Az Teru The Beastmaster’s caragor pens for the 5th time. So i decided to fire up the Fight Pits and force my captains to entertain me and my orcs. It was going well, and since my captains were all legendary and had no weaknesses, things were going well. I then decided to put Dush The Wanderer in a fight pit for entertainment, without acknowledging the risks of the probability of him dying, because he is so powerful, there is no way he can die to a measely common dark assassin hunter orc(obvious foreshadowing). The fight started and everything turns out well, but during the half quarter, the assassin orc was somehow able to overpower Dush, and during the last 20 seconds, he was able to stab Dush and finally put an end to him. I was in shock , I saw my top Captain in both Lithlad and Seregost just killed by a measely common dark assassin orc in a fight pit. I was in despair, all those adventures I spent with Dush, all our fights, all our struggles, just ended there in that Seregost fight pit. I tracked down that assassin and instead of killing him, I shamed him until he became level 1(yo is this a parallel to how Dush became an unstoppable maniac, damn!). I showed no mercy and wanted him to suffer for what he did to my #1 Goated Orc. During one snowy night in Seregost, in the middle of the ice, I brutalized the assassin orc, who by that point became deranged, and his body was left there to rot. I finally made a rule to where I will never ever send any legendary/epic/any orc that has great abilities or skill set to the pit. From that point, I would usually only send into the fight pits random orcs I recruit, not my top captains, I was not that careless anymore. However, the story does not end there! After many days, guess who turns out to be alive all along! It’s Dush the Wanderer! He cheated death and was alive all along! I was breathing a sigh of excitement and relief. However it wasn’t the cheat death but stay loyal variation. He cheated death and went from “Dush the Wanderer” to “Dush the Gutless” , now having a scarred face covered in a sackbag. and was furious at me, and just screamed at me. He then rushed towards me with his triple strike, and I had to dodge it. It was a tiring fight, but i overpowered him and feeling betrayed again after his little rebellion during that one time, and despite me giving him mighty ologs and leveling him up, and supporting him on missions, he betrayed me again, I shamed him again. We were back to square one, where we were enemies again. I did some missions with my seregost captains, he would ambush me to troll with me. I trolled him when he was just chilling and drinking at his camp with his men, we were back to being nemeses. I then contemplated why he would betray me and not join my side again after surviving that pit fight turns out, it was because i never cares for him all along. Despite me giving him upgrades and supporting him on sabotage missions, I never actually saw him as an ally or a friend, I just saw him as a tool that is useful, and when I found a more powerful orc, I would just discard him. Despite all his contributions towards my war for middle earth, despite all his sacrifices to make sure my enemies fell, I didn’t care for him at all besides his usefulness. I never appreciated his sacrifices. Therefore, instead of using his betrayal to fuel my hate for him, I decided to reconcile with him. We had many fights within Seregost, but one faithful day, I lost my Seregost Fort. Then, on one great day, his Iron Will finally vanished during our fight, meaning I can finally recruit him again after all our struggles. We became General and Captain again, and I saw him as an actual ally now, not as a tool for my war. He led my Seregost forces against the new overlord, and me and him took down all the chokepoints alongside my Mystic captains and claimed the fortress, winning the 5th Battle for Seregost(yes seregost got attack a lot). Now being open minded, I finally upgraded him from Epic to Legendary and now for all his sacrifices, awarded him as the New Seregost Mystic Tribe Fortress Overlord. Tldr That was the story of Dush the Wanderer, who went from a Savage Grunt, to a formidable Mystic Captain nemesis, To Unstoppable Mystic Maniac, to Top Epic Captain of Lithlad, to Top Epic Captain of Seregost, To Fight Pit Loser, To Dush the Gutless(Ex Captain of the Gravewalker) who wanted nothing but vengeance on me, to allies again with Talion, to the New Overlord of The Mystic Tribe Seregost Fortress, what an story! Also I might Edit this soon with my xbox username so you guys can invade my Xbox shadow of war fortress and recruit Dush for your own so he can solo orcs for you guys, he is worth recruiting ;). I gotta update my fortress with some of my captains and warchiefs and level all of them to Legendary
@@amirsteinhart3301 they focused a lot less on your allies in shadow of war, and if they wanted to be the focus they betrayed you. There is basically no interaction between you and a really loyal Uruk, they just sit there and occasionally save your skin. Not optimal, if allied Uruks had the ability to interact interestingly with you I'd love it.
@@Lucifer_Nihilum There are a couple more interactions aside from the saves and betrayals, dominated captains can actually cheat death and come back to serve you (which happens rarely) and they also sometimes "ambush" you to give you gifts like intel or treasure orcs. The only thing missing is them referencing fighting other captains alongside you and getting saved by you.
Nemesis system is truly amazing and I think more games should try it. I still remember the goddamn orc captain from Shadow of Mordor when I played it way back in 2014. I don't remember his name but he was an agile and extremely resilient spearman. He wielded a poisonous spear that he could throw, he was invulnerable to stealth damage, he dealt massive damage and he had only one weakness - caragors. I first met him at the start of the game and he killed me. I was pretty confident that I have the skills to beat him but he proved to be too difficult at first. When I tried to hunt him down in revenge he was a bit surprised I'm not dead and the bugger killed me again because he was even stronger this time. He then popped up a few times out of nowhere when I was fighting other captains and we would always have those epic clashes but usually they would end with him escaping because he could run extremely fast or with me escaping when I felt too outnumbered. I managed to finally defeat him literally half a game later when he was at max level and I had way more skills than before. He was trying to escape but ran past a caragor pen so I opened it and it made him panic. In this vulnerable state I managed to set him on fire and catch up with him to finally cut off his head. I don't remember much about Shadow of Mordor's story but this persistent nemesis I remember to this day!
I’ve replayed the second game at least 5 times. This system is such an underrated feature. Don’t know how they could incorporate it a a game like Batman but for shadows it was epic. Think I’m gonna start a new play through.
Another game that uses clever AI for storytelling is The Sims. Here's a video on how that works - ruclips.net/video/9gf2MT-IOsg/видео.html
Two games that I wish had this Nemesis mechanic to keep players glued for hours and hours of procedurally generated storylines after the main story finished are:
1. Ghost Recon Wildlands - imagine having those cartels also betray each other for a drug turf power play. Or, El Suenio being replaced or betrayed by that annoyingly DJ guy for overlord😂😂
2. The other game is Mount And Blade: Bannerlord II. There are so many potential relationships between leaders that can exploit this mechanic
@@AkekalaWildlands was great, a system similar to SoW would of been a great opportunity.
The gameplay of both games, Shadow of Mordor & Shadow of War is still only an Assassin's Creed copycat. And, they didn't even implement voice & cutscenes for the ``female skins´´ we can play! Also: Mission content is repetitive as beep. 🤔
@@a.m.pietroschek1972it’s fun though and they changed quite a bit from ac
@@Akekala I would have loved to see this system, or similar, in Starfield. Especially going NG+. New main quests that feel different each new game. Generating new baddies and stories driven by what the player has done.
I really would love to see this Nemesis System applied in other studios, it has so much great potential
Yeah me too, but with WB patenting the Nemesis System the chances of seeing other studios to shake things up or even improve it are pretty slim.
@@deatheater161 At least in the near future, patents eventually expire after all.
@@troykv96 wouldn't call 2030 the near future
@@AnEggShellWhite True, I just wanted to remark that this isn't going to last forever, is just a matter of time. The industry isn't going to die after all.
@@troykv96 true, I still find the length of patents too long.
Early on in the game I let a slave orc kill me just to see what would happen. He became a captain. I thought this was cool. The story took me away from this area for a really long time. When I came back he was overlord. I felt weirdly proud of him. It was the one fort I never took.
I am so proud of your boy. 👍
cute... i guess
Better plot than Twilight
@@2112-c5w better love story - its an orc love story
I had similar but more hands on. I let the dumbest, weakest looking orc in a camp kill me and then tried to see how far I could get him up the ranks without making him my follower and by having as little personal interaction as possible. In the end he ended up part of a big fight a one of my bodyguards killed him. I proceeded to "aggressively demote" said bodyguard.
Imagine if a mafia or gang-related games use this kind of system for the hierarchy. So you climb up from the bottom, intimidate other members or enemy and eventually became the boss.
Yakuza 0 have the thing, not in mechanics but in story instead, the guy demoted from his rank so hard yet he still want to win against the protagonist
Also if i remember correctly when i played it, the Godfather game from 2006 PS2 got hierarchy mechanic where you rank up from Outsiders to Don of New York. It's so fun taking over the other gang turf and progress trought the ranks.
Basically Jojo: Golden Wind but without the Stands.
I can also imagine a superhero game where villains and heroes have a hierarchy. And as a new metahuman, you rise and fall as you build your own legend.
Territory control like San Andreas would be awesome
The nemesis system being patented and not used is one of the greatest sins in gaming history
He said upcoming Harry Potter games and I chuckled, since the Hogwarts Legacy game is the furthest game from a Nemesis system
its going to be used in the upcoming wonder woman game from the same studio
@@austinjnr2775 let's hope they make something new with this. And they perfect it for a sequel to the Hogwarts Legacy games because they owe us a story after kidnapping our Main Character to do as they wanted.
If people couldn’t patent their good ideas they would be less incentives to make them.
@@Quincy_Morris Why? You saying people would rather use boring ideas than good ideas? If people can patent their good ideas, then there's less incentives to make those ideas better or to actually use those ideas.
The research undertaken for this is as mind boggling as the Nemesis system itself.
This comment was 2 hours ago but the video was made 45 minutes ago. Wtf
Lovely Dan is a lovely Patron. GMTK supporters always get videos early :)
@@GMTK ohhhhh that makes sense
@@GMTK Hey Mark, lovely video. How long was your research for this video?
About three weeks for this one!
Great usage of Stitch and Maku to explain the procedural generation possibilities of the Nemesis system.
Thank you!
Dude, I got a Olog once hat legit came back 5 fucking times, maybe even more
I don't even know
4 of those times where by my hand, and that included the execution finisher where ya cut off a couple of limbs and his head, and I went "Surely he's dead now"
And nope, he came back
After that I recruited him, and then he came back after being killed by some other captain
At that point I just went "Fuck it, he'snever gonna die"
Yeah, that was a sick story and it was literally just a random game experience, I wish the game was on switch
I loved that game. But I stopped playing after I finished the story, I had some "orc story" but I got tired after a lot of hours and I decided to stop leveling and just finish the main story. I still remember that piece of sh*t lvl 72, I had to conquer everything on the area to kill him. The first times I died were so stupid but he became so hard after that. And the betrayals were fun.... I killed all of them >:( ......
@@flaviocampos3581 I once deleveled a captain like 5 times because I didn't want to kill him after he betrayed me, and he had the iron will perk after all those times, even after the fith when I drove him mad. Decided to keep him around as a meme as he was super underleveled compared to the rest so I said "Fuck it, I'll let him live"
Toatally didn't come back to bite me in the ass later...
I guess the real treasure was the orcs we killed along the way.
Gold
Pretty much sums up the franchise perfectly.
that's beautifully said
I think the real treasure was pressing R2+triangle to brutalize an orc and cackle maniacally as their brothers/friends run in horror, terrified from seeing their friend get stabbed in the neck 43 times.
I think the real tresuare was attacking my own orcs till they betray me then shame him till he screams
Ar-Karo’s story sounds compelling, a rise in power, from a simple trooper, to a powerful captain, to an undying monster, to a faithful companion, to an immortal overlord
And it’s completely unique to the player! No one else will have this interaction!
@@harrimcneilage6122 yes
Reminds me of that video about the opposite, an orc who starts off as a level 60 member of talion's army but his attempt to save his brother leads him to lose everything, even his mind
Someone in the comments did a whole 3 paragraph breakdown of it
@@historicflame972 do you know who the youtuber is?
@@Spider10v Zanar's Aesthetics
player interaction score: aka they turned plot armour into a gameplay stat
From plot armor to a plot point?
It works 🤷♂️
That makes me remember of some orc i killed 6 times and still cheated death once and another time.
@@usuariogoogle4347 I can see how this can generate a genuine grudge
Reminds me of an orc I killed 16 times before he ended up being killed finally in the endgame
I still remember in my original playthrough of Shadow of Mordor, there was this uruk called Zunn Blackheart that would always come and fight me. Zunn and I would exchange battles, sometimes of me killing him and other times the other way around. Zunn would ambush me in the wild, and his body parts being replaced with more machines as the days gone by and of me killing him multiple times. Eventually at the end of the story before I fight the Hand, Zunn fought me for the one last time and I finally cut his head off.
What a glorious system, this
Lovely. You reminded me 'Telling Stories with Systems" video, in which Mark told us how great epic narrative can emerge from games that don't have a plot at all, like Civilization.
@@palebluenarratives that’s exactly how I felt!
Have you played Shadow of War too? I recommend you to play it on the same system as your Shadow of Mordor playthrough.
@@victormorales2172 I’m planning to give it a playthrough soon after watching this video! Just really caught up with life at the moment due to Covid. I played Shadow of war back in 2015 so it’s been a while and I’m quite excited for it.
Exactly the same thing happened to me! They made me think I killed my greatest enemy off, and then BOOM, there he is with an orc spec ops squad, right before the boss fight. Still one of my most memorable moments ever.
"Design director Bob Roberts says there's a knob we can turn."
Yes, please tell me about the Bob Rob Knob.
Love that Bob is short for Robert, too, so the man's name is Robert Roberts.
William Williams/Williamson. Jacob Jacobs/Jacobson.
Bobert Robert
Bob lablaw's law blog
Small chance to cheat death? In Mordor, I killed a orc named "... the Unkillable" over 7 times and he kept coming back until his face and body were covered with metal plates, scars and others. He really lived up to his name
Small chance for the most of them, obviously if one cheats death the system is not counting the other times, but the flag sticks to it
He didn’t just cheat death, he became unkillable. I believe it can only happen once in a save so it’s extremely rare and it just makes cheating death more common on only that one orc.
Bro I had someone named exactly like yours who died 7 times and he was legendary
Mines nine and counting
@@crowbell3059 oh
SOW had one of my favorite gameplay moments to this date. I raided a fortress and the Orc Warchief taunted me with my "spy" held hostage and executed him in front of our army. Only I never put a spy in his fortress. He killed his own captain and made the takeover easier for ME. It was fantastic. The nemesis system rules
I love when that happens because even your orcs mention it. "Wait, we didn't have a spy there did we?"
God damn that's gameplay depth right there. Love these games
Dude Killed his own captain just to fuck with you
I believe your orcs comment on it when it happens. They ask whether we put a spy there
The number of voice lines in this game must be truly massive.
kinda yes, i can say i never truly heard the same thing twice
probably why it takes up 100GB
It'd be interesting to see someone make another push in this direction using text-to-speech, the resources needed are much less and for "monster" voices they usually work fine since you can filter it until it sounds right.
@@thiccboi5335 ??? I have the base game and its two story DLC downloaded, and it's only 52.5 GB...
@@CassidyCope I'm talking about shadow of war, are you talking about mordor?
It sucks that the Nemesis System has only been used in one franchise and nothing else. Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War are some of the best action games I’ve ever played, and at least 1/3 of why is because of the Nemesis System.
The closest thing we’ve seen when it comes to replication of this system was the bounty hunter system in Assassin’s Creed Odyssey, which was just a lazy husk of what the Nemesis System actually was, and Watch Dogs Legion, which was more of a “playable character” system.
Here’s hoping Monolith’s next game continues the Nemesis System cause the system is fantastic.
Warframe's Kuva Lich system is similar to the Nemesis system, in that it creates a randomly generated personal enemy.
@@dazzle9712 i don't think it's any close to compare, kuva lich literally won't affect anything in the game except if you choose to fight him yourself.
@@liberifatali6975 The lich'll confiscate parts of your reward in missions taking place in parts they own. That includes rivens and rare drops.
@@dazzle9712 ah... yes... i forgot abt that part lol
Warner bros patent protected it so no one can use it
I love the nemesis system.
One time i was attacking my nemesis, aka my punching bag, and about t shame him for the fifth time. BUT, then a captain ambushed me to tell me he was betraying me. And then 3 other captains showed up immediately after him to say they were betraying me too.
I died by them, and then spend a few hours hunting them down one by one and shaming them down to humiliating obscurity, who all either die by accident or instant mortality weaknesses.
Love it.
sweet ol revenge
Dame 😂😂😂
Kill Bill plotline
Lol
I had a single betrayal so far, and when it happened i just shamed him repeatedly. I shamed him so much he broke and could only repeat a single phrase, "Angry" his name became the deranged and went from level 6, to level 58, jesus christ man.
I can't even imagine the amount of work of the dubbing people to record so many lines for a game!
It's even more impressive considering that the game is fully dubbed to other languages, with quality voice acting too. I'm playing sow in spanish for latin america, and it was a pleasant surprise to hear some of the most talented voices from the dubbing industry around here.
Imagine a nemesis system like this with an AI that is able to make new voice lines as well.
@@Chaylubb Hopefully it's nothing like Watch Dogs Legion. The AI modified voices in that game were horrendous.
I played 35 hous of this game and not once the orc's dialogue repeated. Not. Once.
@@victormorales2172 can confirm the quality for Brazilian Portuguese
“Death cannot take you today! Just as it cannot take me…” I legitimately smiled from that
Ikr same!!
Ar-Karo: Did you really think killing me would be enough to make me die?
Big brain time
Shirou Emiya: CONFUSED SCREAMING
But, but, people die if they are killed!
Umh yes... I'm used to that being the case.
Who knew that Ar Karo was secretly Anos!
Let's add to the fact that Overlords can get anxious to a spy in his ranks to the point he will kill a captain or warchief thinking he's a spy. The dialogue of one of your orc will be along the lines of "We didn't put any spy there. He just killed one of his defenders."
"The vast majority of orcs will never cheat death" clearly they never had my gameplay experience
Well, on my 35+ hours playthrough, it happened only 4-5 times.
exactly
So true now I’ll try recruiting him
I don't get it right why, in these weeks, everytime I play an online feud, I always find Captains with the Iron Will trait. It's really annoying! I can't recruit any of them anymore, and the only thing I usually do is to shame them.😡
The bad point is when they cheat death and betray you they all got the "Iron Will" trait... and if you lvl them doen they may lose some resistances along the way ... i usually just kill them when they came back
The cool thing about games like this is they are infinitely replayable and entirely unspoilable.
Kind of. You can spoil someone new to the game by telling him what surprises the orcs have in store for him. So for instance, someone would never expect a breakdancing orc, but now that he is told about one appearing in general, he will not be as surprised to see it himself.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef there's a breakdancing orc?
I've played the game for 170 hours and never met any breakdancing orc
@@eothorn3217 sadly no. But, there's a title called "The friendly" and he's just a bud everytime you encounter him he goes "Hey man, how about we just talk it out?" "Yo, you're pretty cool, can we like, not fight and stuff?".
Your priority must be to recruit him and keep him safe.
@@eothorn3217 it was an analogy
Broke an Immortal orc once and he got stuck in a loop. I shamed him so much he wanted to die but couldn’t. Then he developed a “fear of the Gravewalker”, so he would show up randomly, beg me to kill him then realize he is supposed to be scared of me and run away.
That's why immortality is a bad superpower
I had one orc that I shamed so much he became deranged and kept saying "Mix it up, you mix it up". He was level 85 and I shamed him until he was level 1.
@@void2920 Getting your brain fried repeatedly also does a number on you
Holy crap this is the most liked comment I’ve ever got. Since you guys liked it show much I’ll tell you guys how my immortal orc finally stayed dead. One time when he was running away I summoned a Drake and it so happened to spawn directly in the path he was running. Of course he had a deadly weakness to fire with his level being so low. The drake burned him to a crisp and for whatever reason (maybe because it wasn’t me that killed him that time? I don’t know. ) that was the death that stuck.
@@chief664 Congratulations
One of the coolest orc encounters I had was this one orc bodyguard I was hunting down. I revealed a handful of information on him then behind me I heard, “Ranger! Find anything interesting??” Then I proceeded to turn him into my own spy
Oh shit! So it's like he knows he's being spied on!
I wish you talked more about the deranged trait. There’s a sliding scale that pushes the orc afflicted to go more and more crazy. It’s really cool and a bit haunting
I had a very tragic storyline similar to GMT's "Stitch", except my Olog betrayed me, gained the ability to nullify being turned, and was eventually driven mad. His high Player Interaction score caused him to be repeatedly brought back to life, to be a huge nuisance to me in whatever late game encounter I was doing. He gradually lost his mind through his brushes with death until eventually he was a gibbering mad blob capable of only one thought: kill the gravewalker. I had taken this proud being, broken it's will, forced it to fight for me in arena matches, placed it in charge of my most powerful fortress; of course he rebelled against my iron hand! Twice broken, he was doomed to wander the lands as an exile; his once noble spirit destroyed and his keen mind shattered, his only thought revenge against the human who had made him into this wretched thing. He was finally slain during his ambush on my ambush - by his replacement bodyguard, some recent recruit hastily pressed into my service that despite his stats, would never reach the glory of his predecessor.
As a player, I was so frustrated to have this happen! I made this guy into the power that he is, and now he's my immortal surprise nemesis? He was so cool, and funny, and now I just dreaded seeing him scream "ARGABLAGADAAA!!" and extend a simple encounter into a ten minute slog. Defeating him would only mean hearing him scream at me again 30 minutes later. It felt like the game giving me a huge middle finger. His story, though, was so powerful and tragic that it's stuck with me for years! It was a real, "wait, am I the baddie?" moment where I realized that Talion was just Sauron in a different form. 😲
@@galacticbob1 This was a really good read, thanks for sharing your story!
The nemesis system is literally 'what doesn't kill you make you stronger'
And sometimes “I died and got better”
@@aidanedwards8931 fun fact. I also got kuga the machine you see at 15:52. The guy returned 6 times after i killed him
@@mohammadnaghizade3544 same, i killed him, then he hunted me down, later (much later) i came back and recruited him
or weaker when shamed
@@johankhamaruddin3775 Maniac orcs : "YOU'VE ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD"
i've always wanted to try this game, & 18:30 has convinced me to buy it. I am a HUGE fan of compelling procedural stories. I can't wait to play it, get inspired, & get sued for trying to innovate making some inspired indie game 🙃
Try to teach viewers how to make a system like that then WB kicks the front door open
Hi
Fancy seeing you here! Love your content.
Get it now, maggot!
That was very cool.
The Nemesis System in a Batman game with the “Nemeses” being crime lords of various gangs would be incredible. Imagine starting with Carmine Falcone, Penguin, Black Mask, and others as “Overlords” and as the game evolves, cool new procedurally generated Batman villains and gangsters rise through the ranks.
I think Wonder Woman is a better fit with the nemesis system than batman. I can see the main villain of the game be ares the god of war.
You, my friend, are a genius.
@@cupcakes6919 nah
@@dyltube6395 so are you not going to elaborate?
@@cupcakes6919 nah
This game is VERY fun to come back to 4 years later with the market entirely removed.
I really dont know why they removed it from the store ....thankfully i bought sow as a disc
@@theintruder6085 tons of backlash saying that it was microtransactions, yet it was barely
The game was always fun, people just deprived themselves of the experience for the longest time because of the arguably ridiculous overreaction to the market back when the game came out.
@@theintruder6085 because it was pay to win
@@chrismarple How? You could buy Orc's and chest with items (nothing that you cant have with regular playing), but there wasn't option ''buy this and win the game''..
And it is solo player game, so who cares about microtransaction.
I remember doing the arena mission in shadow of war for my first time. I defeated all the other captains and then HE walked in, Grublik the Immovable. Responsible for dozens of my deaths, has killed my favorite captains on several occasions and has caused me to rage quit Shadow of Mordor entirely. So when he walked into the arena with his spear and shield I, no joke, turned off the game for a day because I knew what was bound to pursue.
The next day after hours of trial and error I was finally able to defeat him only for him to cheat death and remain in my game until the final mission against sarron and his army. And this is the reason I love the nemesis system. It can create situations like that and can leave an impact on peoples playthroughs.
There was this one cunt that i couldnt beat killed me like 40 times so instead i recruited him because i was tired of dealing with him after i recruited him i got a trophy named "If you can't beat them" lowkey my most humiliating moment in gaming afterwards i banished him and made him turn insane and killed him he cheated death... kuga the machine
I won't lie but I choked upon seeing "HE walked in" like some major Super Villainy was about to go down.
You can die in shadow of mordor? 😅😅
@@K4inan no you don’t understand. I played on this one save. For a WHILE. I swear the game learned. This one guy had everything I hated to fight against. Also I may be very bad at the game but I’m pretty sure being bad at the game makes the game better.
@@collincampbell7508 From what I've seen it would: Damn last chance is near impossible to fail.
The video has been out for a while and I am not sure if anyone will see it, but I just wanted to leave the story of Pushkrimp the "Many Titles" here:
Upon entering the fourth zone of the game for the first time I was ambushed by an epic level Uruk named "Pushkrimp the Sickly". His body was swollen and green which gave him a unique look so after beating him with relative ease (he was an archer and not that strong for an epic orc) I shamed him to a lower level so that I could recruit him later. Before I even got to do that he fulfilled a mission, which involved killing some Caragor and became "Pushkrimp the Beast Slayer" complete with a nice animal hat that covered his deformed head. I was quite impressed by his quick recovery from being shamed and recruited him for good.
Together we killed and recruited quite a few Captains until I decided that it was time to go after one of the Warchiefs. I obviously wanted to take Pushkrimp, my best follower, with me and sent him to infiltrate. The time for the challenge came and we faced the Warchief and his two bodyguards. Things started out well with Pushkrimp quickly taking care of the first bodyguard, a rather imposing Olog, and executing him with his crossbow. However, when the other two enemies were almost down a third orc (that's another story but the guy is a real bastard, believe me) ambushed me and put me in the ground with his "No Chance" Trait.
That stung a bit, but the feast held by the Warchief offered me a chance for revenge. When I finally had him cornered Pushkrimp showed up out of nowhere, and betrayed me at the worst moment, calling out my weakness. In his mind, he had already surpassed me when I died in front of him and now he was his own Uruk again. With some trouble, I managed to fight back until Pushkrimp made an escape. After taking care of the Warchief I started to hunt him down. He had been my best guy and I wanted him back. However, as it turned out his betrayal had given him an iron will, which I had to break first. After numerous encounters, in some of which I had to fail the finishing moves to keep him alive, I got my Pushkrimp back, although he was "The Shamed" now.
The orc hunt continued for a time with him at my side and it felt just like before. Unfortunately, the good times came to a brutal halt, when I engaged multiple captains in an ambush. The fighting got really chaotic and at some point, Pushkrimp must have gotten killed. I only realized it when looking at the army screen after the battle and it was quite a shock. I had wanted to make him Overlord at some point to reward him for his help, but now he had just died in a manner that was not spectacular at all, hell, I had not even seen it.
Luckily it was not my last meeting with Pushkrimp. When I was about to take down another Warchief he showed up on his Caragor, cheating death and betraying me at the same time, because I had abandoned him on the battlefield and now he wanted revenge. His newly revived self was quite over-leveled and we had our most hard-fought fight yet. In the end, I still succeeded and decided to shame him, because I wanted him back in my ranks. That proved to be a bit much and poor Pushkrimp broke, turning into "the Ruined". For now, I am debating what to do with him: I would really like to make him Overlord, although he won't care anymore. At the same time, I would like to see what kind of nemesis he can become for me if I leave him to continue his hunt. And then there is the option of finally delivering his scarred body and soul the mercy he deserves. He always had a point when he betrayed me after all. Only, I am not sure if I can even kill him at this point...
I almost had the same experience with Pushkrimp (yea, i meet with an orc with the same name). He was also swollen, but in my game he carried a giant spear and a shield. I play this game that; if i found a cool looking orc then i command him to my side, but Pushrimp was neither cool nor interesting at first so i just killed him without any struggle. Obviously he then came back for revenge and he looked even more disgusting, but it was my first playthrough in Shadow of War, and this was my first connection with an orc so i decided to keep him with me. He was my number one bodyguard, we killed many uruks, gologs, caragors together. I had a lot of fun with him by always prioritizing to keep him alive which gave an extra challenge for the game... until one day he betrayed me, and i was so angry with him that i humiliated him to something like lvl4. After that he couldn't talk, only babling in himself - i took his mind and drove him crazy. I could not decide what to do with him so i just ignored him for sometime. After Pushkrimp betrayal and madness i focused on the main story of conquering the first fort. Unfortunately Pushkrimp died in that first battle... but i feel that after my massive humilliation towards him, death was the best option that he could have had.
I’ve gotten so many amazing stories from this game I have around 182 hours I believe from me just killing captains and conquering everything in Mordor. I now almost have all regions completely controlled with all slots filled with friendly captains that all have amazing stories and character developments. I remember my friend and I playing this game for hours on end during sleepovers as we’d do the craziest of shit and meet the funniest of captains and have just an all around fun time. I must say that one of my most old and favorite of captains in this game that I have is Amûg the Head Lopper. I’ve had this captain since the very start of my playthrough and I do not regret it. I’ve taken this guy all over Mordor to help take all of the fortresses and help slay all overlords and warchiefs, he was my right hand as we’d saved each other more times than I can count. Now after his long adventure he’s had, I’ve set him as overlord of Cirith Ungol of the Terror citadel, he’s earned it for sure.
Heres my story: My nemisis was "luga of the flies" He was a assassin in a early story mission, and i dropped a fly nest on him and killed him, he came back as "luga of the flies" (He was called something else before, but l don't remember it), with his face and shoulder being F-ed up and "hivey" (11:50). i then killed him 2 more times, cutting off his arms and legs (each time giveing me a legendary item) (he came back with a 3 pronged metal hand after one of these dismemberments (2:10 for example)). by the 4th time i encountered him, l decided l NEEDED to make him mine, so the next 2 times he ambushed me, l ran (5 encounters in all during the minis ithil arc/C1). Time passed, and eventualy, he became overlord of the area next to minus mogul. And i'm happy to say, he still is, though under my control.
Edit: I think it might have been him!: 1:00 (though, i think the level is a bit too high)
My story starts with a little orc captain in shadow of mordor called "Mogg rock crusher"
I decided to do some exploring after doing a handful of missions at the start of the game, and i found Mogg. I co uldnt brand him cause it was early game, so i killed him. He came back of course, and i killed him again. I think around this point i did the prompt and moved him to shadow of war, but anyway, i kept playing. I killed him again, and again, and again, until he was messed up, barely living, and i killed him for good.
Or so i thought.
I played Shadow of war, and during the arena mission, who would show up but Mogg rock crusher, looking like he did when i must of accidentally moved him to shadow of war or something. So i killed him to progress, a nd later he came back as mogg the hook. I lost to him, and he got killed by the mysterious savior tribute guy. Then i did the mission with the necromancer orc, and i was sad to see mogg among the undead, meaning it would be impossible to recruit him. To this day, he was the orc i had the longest feud with, and is pretty much the face of this series for me.
@@noahsf7676
You're story fills my heart with warmth.
I knew a orc once. First name Tärz. I thought I'd kill him but Instead he killed me. I found his new place and shamed him. He ambushed me later on and I accidentally killed him with poison. He cheated death and become Tärz the poisoned, I proceeded to shame him when he became deranged. I decided I'd tracked him down and shame him again, when I started searching he ambushed me now babbling like an idiot, that was when I he died of poisoning again. I was bummed as I wanted to shame him. Cut to half hour later and he ambushes me again when in the heat of battle I used his mortal weakness against him and stealth killed him. I thought for sure he was dead and joking thought "if he comes back I'll recruit him and make him my overlord." Wouldn't you believe it he comes back and I do exactly that.
What a spectacular game. The amount of awesome stories you get makes the price tag worth it.
"deranged? I was deranged once theu put me in. A room'
@@Bacon2000.A rubber room, a rubber room with rats. I hate rats. Deranged? I was deranged onc-
You saw the potential in him and you took it, well played
this system would be sick in a dating sim
"she will remember that..."
I gently open the door.
@@Michael_Schumacher NOOOO
Like in a soap opera. The villain who was supposedly killed returns with memory loss, or something.
It will be a good NTR system.
"First, it's important that you can actually remember and distinguish between these different orcs" I reinstalled Shadow of War after going over a year without playing it and my save had been stored on the cloud so it was still available. I was very surprised at how many of the orcs in that save I remembered, even when revisiting starting locations.
This video also made me want to reinstall it
10:52 Even though this was a pre-written and pre-recorded line, you only experienced it as a result of a procedural generation system. And yet it gave me chills like it was a major story moment, because of the connection you conveyed through your telling of your playthrough.
i mean every quote is pre written, when this game was created there was no AI to generate this
Now I see why games like this take so long to make.
Millions, perhaps even billions of lines of dialogue
Honestly, Shadow of War is a brilliant game, not just the Nemesis system. The combat is fantastic with how much variety and power its willing to give you, the artdirection is superb and only adds on the style of the movies, and the story is suprisingly emotional at times. The ending is one of the few that ever managed to make me shed a tear.
SOW had too much pastel coloring for it's theme and the shadows, texture and lighting are not as detailed as the first game.
I kinda wanted to dominate Sauron and take over Mordor but hey the ending we got opens a potential sequel where we can play as Nazgul Talion and dominate humans instead of Orcs in the pursuit of the One Ring, that would be AWESOME!
Shadow of war managed to redeem the story of the series. Throughout the first game I couldnt help but feel like they were spitting on the themes of the lord of the rings e.g. Power corrupting. They turned it around with the sequel and it actually fits into the world now
I love playing through the game, it's really fun, but I wish there was more endgame content than just orcs and forts. Like when you unlock all your cool necromancy powers you don't get to do anything with them because there's no quests, no people to talk to, no new things other than fortress defence, no nothing. Really fun to replay, but nothing to do but replay
I thought it looked generic and janky, with elements from other games that weren't as smooth. The nemesis system is its only real claim to fame.
Finally got the answer to: "why isn't the nemesis system in more games?" and kinda sad and disappointed about the answer. I hope somehow, someway other game devs find a way around this patent and maybe even make something better or WB let the patent expired. It honestly feels like they stump alil bit of growth in the gaming community. But, I guess we'll have to see.
its so shitty for a developer as beloved (and one of my personal favorite studios) to just say like "hey this is a great idea... no one else can use it". its not quite like but almost like Infinity Ward saying "hey call of duty 1 is a fantastic game... no one else can ever make first person shooters anymore, because we patented it". Its a rehash of PUBG suing Fortnite, just because they share an immense similarity doesnt mean there aren't key differences in style and substance.
or that company that patented loading screen minigames
@@quinnmarchese6313 Namco Bandai patented minigames in loading screens, though the patent ran out around 2015ish. Just nobody's really bothered to do any of them in modern titles, since loading is now either front-ended as a one-and-done when you boot up, or is hidden in increasingly clever ways.
It's not as bad you think. Another studio could always purchase use it and sell it as well. But, I do agree that this is shutting out a very cool feature that could be used in unique ways for future titles outside the lotr universe
It is entirely designed to stumt growth.
That is the entire purpose of copyright, at least when employed by corporations.
Fuck copyright. All it does is stifle creativity.
I had an obsessive Ork who fell in love with my dead body and he kept escaping or coming back from the dead so I recruited him and he’d fight alongside of me constantly complimenting me and mentioning how he loves me but wants to kill me
So when did he betray you?
I'll never forget the orc that gave me the most trouble. Luuga the Wrestler. And the fact that I can remember his name without fail means the Nemesis System is something we need to see more of.
You forgot to mention that orcs can kill one of their own, that they think are a spy.
I love how the orcs leading your army comment on it too, like, they look at you and say things like "wait, we didn't have a spy, did we?" "that stupid paranoid just killed one of his own!"
@@EteamProductions "am I going mad or did he just kill one of his own men"
@@RodWaffle I went to kill a Warlord once and he killed one of his own orcs thinking it was an spy. I died, retried it and he killed another one, my spy still alive. When I finally beat him down, my spy said "The shrakh was so paranoid he killed all his allies and trusted me, what an idiot".
@@MrRogordo hahahaha
Yeah that’s hilarious, but unfortunately he decapitated Loki (necromancer) bc I planted a spy
One of my best experience’s in the game was in the early game before I got the ring of power. I kill some no name orc captain with fire and he becomes “the flame of war” (strong and badass as hell). He proceeds to kick my ass multiple times and becomes overlord. When I finally get the ring of power within the story he is now the overlord of one of the toughest fortresses in the game. So through the entire campaign I have this rival I am set on fighting. Three forts later I fight through his captain’s and war lords, Infiltrate spies into his fortress only to finally face him in a epic duel and defeat him!
One of the best gaming experience’s I’ve ever had.
I gotta say, it was pretty brilliant how, in a video discussing the way the nemesis system creates stories, you use the stories created to make ongoing stories in the video and keep viewers engaged. Halfway through, I was like "damn that Maku, I gotta see how he takes him down now," and then it hit me
Yes. That emergent story of "The rise of Ar-Karo the Stitch" felt more satisfying than most crafted game stories I've seen.
I remember being absolute blown away by shadow of war and being convinced that system would show up in loads of games after that. what you've said about trademarking makes alot of sense and is incredibly frustrating
This reminds me, I had a nemesis named Krosh the Machine. The man always came back, he came back five times before I cut off his head and he was dead for good. Then in a later mission, a necromancer revives all your dead nemesises as weak zombies and when I ran into Krosh, instead of the usual zombie gargling, he just. Stared, while the music got more and more intense.
Holy hell...
Did you kill him?
@@Phi_Lix yes. Easily.
@@thelonelylump4015 And did you ever see him again after?
Yeeeah, this happened to me too. The orc that got made into "the Machine" kept coming back again and again, even after chopping his head off, and when I thought I managed to kill him, that necromancer brought him back. NIGHTMARE SHIT.
I think the epilogue is terribly underrated.
Spoilers below:
The fact that the story there goes on pretty much infinitely, which you could technically say, until Talion joins the Nazgul, is pretty cool imo. The endless amounts of sieges you can play gives it such a real feeling.
I mean, there are only 10 sieges total, so I don't know about "endless"
@@blackvendaeta7104is more like siège the other player
@@blackvendaeta7104i remember the launch epilogue was like, 50+ sieges total?
I personally enjoyed it, but people made a lot of stink about it
I had two Nemesis Orcs that were blood brothers that kept saving each other and kicking my butt so I recruited both of them and ended up making them both really strong teammates of mine and they were my best friends because they saved me alot, miss those guys, I’ll always remember you Bûr and Gûrshu
You should have thrown them in the pit to fight each other to death!
@@l.b136 what happens if you send blood brothers to fight?
@@Shadowed_Ninja I believe they will fight to the death, but the winner will betray you in retaliation
"In the future, entertainment will be randomly generated"
-VeggieTales
Weedeater
Weedeater
Weedeater
Weedeater
Weedeater
Up until this day, I never knew there was an interaction in which the orc breaks your sword and you lose it!!! This is such a cool detail, quite a marvel. Like this video! Keep it up, I'm loving these!
Even better, if you get revenge, you get your sword back, 5 levels higher (can even crack the max level that way) and with upgraded rarity. Basically the most powerful weapons of the game can be created by getting it back after being broken
@@philippmeier3363 so if your sword is broken then does it mean you can't fight with a sword till you get revenge or what?
@@krishrocks11 No. In Shadow of War, you can have multiple weapons.
@@philippmeier3363 oO wow. I want hehe
@@philippmeier3363 game actually creates your own Anduril, so cool
I never played these games, but all I heard was "Yeah, the Nemesis system is pretty cool."
I would've never thought that it's actually this deep, dynamic and well executed. The amount of voice-overs that must've been made for this is just incredible. It seem very underappreciated.
There are around 300+ different personalities, all of them with 40 unique voicelines + generic voicelines shared by orcs interpreted by the same voice actor, so... Yeah, it took A LOT of effort that was underappreciated because of controversy :c
That ending, it must be heartbreaking when the orc that adventured together with you suddenly betrays you and you have to put them down for good :(
The worst part is if you don't kill them and they get the Iron Will trait so you can't recruit them again.
Well you just constantly shame them until they lose their iron will trait - then recruit them again.
@@aetherblackbolt1301 yeah, but they get crazy after you shame them 3-4 times, so their personality is gone, Brüz for example
The game really does build a relationship between you and the orcs. When an orc first betrayed me, I shamed him over and over into oblivion out of anger. When my Architect died, I nearly cried. Still miss that bearded old olog wearing a Tudor flat cap.
Loved hearing about the villains generated in your adventures and it makes me really curious to try the games. Thanks for the video and what I can only imagine was a ton of time spent delving into the system!
You can get the first one for pretty cheap on a lot of sales. The gameplay is pretty generic but it's still fun to play through for the orcs alone
The actual gameplay is pretty awful TBH. Their main way of changing/growing the orcs is making them increasingly invincible. In the first game it's fine because they gain resistances slowly over the game. Maybe a warchief will have invincibility to some type of attack and resistance to some other. In the second game that's every random captain, and instead higher lvl enemies are just invincible to every attack type but one. It sucks all the fun out of the game frankly. No creativity, no skill, just do what it tells you to.
You will not be disappointed
@@compassionatecurmudgeon7025 Maybe stop it with the misinformation? The orcs in the second game function the same, they gain strengths and lose weaknesses as they level up and Talion also gains abilities that allows him to more easily take advantage of weaknesses that the orcs still have. And on that topic, the system is set up so orc captains will have a minimum of three weaknesses even at maximum level - and that is without taking into consideration the things that captains will never be able to adapt or be invulnerable to such as the spectral glaive - there is never a point where a captain will only have one weakness, it is quite literally hard coded that way. Invincibilities also only last as long as captains are not dazed or afraid of anything since their fear overrides their strengths.
Maybe your experience comes from fighting hacked online orc captains?
@@MyDreamCrusher I mean they function the same, except start higher level and have more strengths and less weaknesses from the word go. Yes, there are technically multiple weaknesses, they're often environmental weaknesses that aren't an immediate or practical option. It still feels deeply artificial and restrictive. Perhaps it wouldn't have killed the game for me on its own, but the plot also left me completely cold and I completely didn't care which generic orc was the leader of a faction that doesn't move or do anything that would depend on the nature of its leadership.
To put a finer point on it: Those invincibility attributes force you to take a slower pace and think, which doesn't help when stopping to think makes you see all the seams in the narrative and gameplay. It broke the magic and left me just seeing everything as hours of wasted time rather than challenges to overcome.
The nemesis system is a neat trick, but it doesn't actually *do* anything. The impacts that it has on the game world are minor and unpredictable, as such it offers no new choices to the player.
It does autogenerate the equivalent of flavor text for the generic bosses. Sure they added fancy graphics, but there are plenty of more intricate and impressive interactions in gaming.
Heck, dwarf fortress generates a history before each game that creates major historical figures, sees empires rise and fall, betrayals, environmental disasters etc. and then also generates structures, people, and towns in accordance with that history.
My experience was sitting unmoved as the game acts like a crackhead fisherman with no arms arms and no legs, throwing plot hooks out time and time again sloppily by mouth and with no strength. None of them ever get close. Eventually I just feel sorry for the metaphorical game paraplegic wiggling on the dock.
'You're not enjoying this either are you buddy?'
*muffled affirmation noises*
'Remember the hobbits buddy?'
*calmer affirmation noise*
'Think about the hobbits...'
*muffled* 'hobbitses?'
'Yea'
*BANG*
Some of the best parts of it are the things that can go completely forgotten or unmentioned, from captains you walked out on that way later when you re-enter their zone will reference how time has passed and you're both more then you used to be. how in secret many captains are willing (or desperate to prove themselves) to be challenged by you. i even had interactions where i got scolded by one captain for going after another. along the lines of "Hey you should have paid attention to me!" and above all, Captain's loyalty. it is a painfully difficult thing to get. and you can lose it in an instant. but its beyond satisfying to tag along with your mates. fighting off all Mordor has to offer and promote one of them to be a warchief only for them to suddenly jump out and save you when your about to get killed. genuine emotion comes from that. the highs and lows.
My favourite olog, whom I considered my hand, and took a while to get and who I really wanted for a bit. I used him to fight in pits for loot and while I overlooked my citadel which he helped fight for, he betrayed me and I fled. I shamed him and to my dismay, he became a maniac. I had to kill him.
@@videoms1271 Aw that sucks bud, been there and had to do alot of experimenting with the nemesis system before i got to understand their loyalty, and even then it can just be a bugger of a suprise when they do turn their coat again. can you try finding an older save or do you have him in your garrison too? that way you could try again.
@@Noxims47314 and the worst part: Just now while avenging someone else I found him, Az-Teru, wielding a flaming weapon. Sadly I couldn't recruit him
Shadow of Mordor brought me one of my most memorable rivals, “Mozu the Mountain”. No matter how many times I killed him, he wouldn’t stop returning, eventually he quite literally was a metal mountain with how many scars I put on him. He was “the machine” but twice as armored. It wasn’t just me destroyed him over and over again, he was killing me regularly as well. I sent 3 captains and myself just to kill him. Then, I stopped playing Mordor and switched to War. A year or two later I came back to Mordor to finish the game. On one of the final missions, he returned. After all of these years, I saw my worst nightmare once again. But after playing Shadow of War, my skill has greatly improved. I easily put him down one, final, time…
My nemesies are an absolute blast
@@CrystallizedBlackSkull I can never get any good nemesis’s nowadays
@Psycho restart the game have a good time trying new ones, see if you can point the game in the right direction by Purposely dying to an orc or Something along those lines to get The story to build. That's what I did When my stories got boring.
Now that's a story
I have met an ork on the very beggining in Minas Ithil. He was enraged by everything which made him hard to kill, hard to posess and he killed me a few times, and vice versa. He kept coming back until I finally got him into my ranks, upgraded him, made him a bodyguard. But the nemesis relation must go on, so he betrayed me, I killed him, and he is yet to be seen again
Come back Tuka the survivor I miss you
I killed such an ork at the beginning of my first playthrough. He was revived by Zog the eternal and immediately killed everyone he could reach, including Zog.
The epilogue actually offers a lot of interesting things with the nemesis system, you can consider it a test of how much you interacted with your own followers because they will for once matter. Additionally sieges are some of the most brutal experiences out there and can lead to the presence of new nemesis orcs and the death of beloved followers at the hands of potential new ones. While I dont like how the orcs never react to your new *theme* its made up for when considering just how deep it is in other places. TLDR epilogue is worth it.
You can have interactions with followers, you just need to make sure you fight alongside them and not let them do all the work, show them why your in charge and you'll notice a change in their behavior.
You can walk around the fortress to see them drinking and singing with the troops, sharing anecdotes, mock-fighting each other, bullying slaves, etc. you can even call in your bodyguard and if you just walk alongside him he'll start talking to you
@@EteamProductions clevers have the best lines
@@ironbull08x93 Nahh, The Obvious is hilarious.
@@demutrudu6106 or the "one-worders"
it's sad that the only thing remembered about shadow of war is the lootboxes even though, they're gone. replayed it last year and had so much fun with the nemesis system
I blame Jim Sterling's corpulent ass
@@ToxicBastard, I blame the industry being stupid
@@pedroh.pereira8292 that too
@@ToxicBastard I blame Kotaku and Polygon's reviews of the game, they were the ones who initially suggested that the endgame of SoW took "tens of hours to complete" (if you are that bad just play on a different difficulty setting, but in reality they probably didn't even know the game had those) and that the loot boxes somehow allowed you to "skip the grind" which was not even remotely true. Jim and tons of other reviewers just ran with these headlines because it fit their narrative.
@@TheMasterMind144 exactly, the sieges were awesome but hard, especially if you had shit orcs and forgot to upgrade stuff, so obviously it's going to be hard for a game journalist who plays like a child.
Whenever a journo complains something is too hard I make a mental note that it's probably not a game my mum could play, because that's all it means; like Yahtzee criticised Overlord 2 for its spider temple puzzle (something I beat as a child) I have to wonder: does being a journalist make games ten times harder or something?
I haven't played the shadow series in a long time( i should probably finish it one day) but nothing will ever beat my first play through where I killed an orc who was afraid of bees with bees and have that same orc show up 5 hours later covered in bee stings looking for my head. Magnificent
It's so sad seeing that just a week after this video was published, WB Games (those selfish pricks) decided to create a patent for the Nemesis system
Unfortunately they've been trying at it for years now and kept getting rejected. But it seems they finally found one judge who agreed to pass it. I wonder how....😑
Brie B Well to be fair it is their creation
@@spiritorange8325 copyrighting game systems is a prick move since it would be like if call of duty or halo copyrighted the fps genre or more accurately if titanfall or mirrors edge copyrighted advance movement
the nemesis system could spawn an entire sub-genre for the rather stale button mashers like batman and mordor if they were allowed to grow but that claim is going to hamper alot of studios
@@Airsickword well they are a company and not a charity......... Nothing personal. Just business
Not really. A patent is really promising as it means there could be potentially a new addition to the series or a spin off or side game featuring the system. There are also ways in practice to get round it. Many games have copied the system and there have been no court battles yet. Regardless, the games are still in their eyes after all this time.
how to kill facinating gameplay/game design?
- patent
-microtransactions
Was looking for a comment like this, it really sucks how they undermined an otherwise great system just from corporate greed
No more mtx tho
bruh its long gone, just play it lol its not dead
It’s great to have long relationships with the other characters and a game that remembers your actions. It’s a pity that so many of the interactions are about negative reactions. How would this look like with positive interactions? Eg teach each other something new, exercise together, organise a party together, listen to each others story.
Sounds like the relationship system of the Sims.
Actually now that I think about it, the nemesis system, but focused on wholesome stuff is something I need.
I unironically think this can work in something like GTA (maybe in 6 but that's coming out after I pass away so) where it acts as a more fun way of making side activity/side content and is essentially a way to encourage the player to take a break from committing 6th degree muder for no reason.
Maybe I want it because I'm lonely irl, that'd be crazy....
@@gibleyman gta 5 had something really small like that, where a random theif steals money from a pedestrian, def would be cool if they improved on it
I remember the first time an Orc saved my life, I was so thankful I made him overlord, and buffed him slightly, as I was already deciding whether or not I should keep my current. It was such an incredible relief.
I was so motivated to try to add a system like this into my game, only to find out they put a patent on it. AAA disgusts me sometimes. It’s such a broad system. That is not ok.
Just do it. I think the patent has been in pending status for six years, and other AAA studios are already releasing lite versions of it.
Plus, if it ever were granted and enforced, a big studio sued would easily invalidate those shit-tier claims in court before you even show up on the radar of WB's lawyers. Gameplay lawsuits are unheard of anyway, except for big deals like the battle royale genre.
Seriously, it's impossible to build trivial things like a generic online shop without violating over a dozen patents. Just don't worry unless the holder is known to enforce it, or you'll never release anything.
(Also, death to the assholes who stopped ventilator production in the EU during the pandemic because the devices used metaphorical tabs for the UI. That's literally the whole patent: tabs for the UI of medical equipment.)
@@rikamayhem Thanks man, I'm thinking of adding it to my RTS game. If I keep on it ill send you the progress. :D
@@samcook6250 That sounds neat, actually. I'm guessing each faction would have some sort of hero units that can get promoted over the course of a campaign.
I'd say the cool thing about doing it on an RTS is that even your own heroes can be made part of the system.
#abolishcopyright
Same here. But I am also worried that it might be to big a workload for an indie game. Though I was also inspired somewhat by One Piece. Since its a western game I thought it be fun to generate outlaws like mii fighters and give them titles. When a low level gang member escapes or kills you they would have a chance to get a title like Zane the swift legs and their bounty would rise. Their bout could get higher over time and they would become more infamous with more wanted posters and npcs talking about them
I recruited an undead Olog from another player's game. He was absolutely god tier. My undefeated bodyguard and the leader of my armies. UNTIL I was ambushed by one captain while hunting a different captain. They downed me, causing my god tier bodyguard to betray me. My greatest ally who I kind of cheesed to even have in the first place suddenly became the ultimate villain of my whole campaign. I kind of hope someone recruited him from my game as well so his legacy never ends.
Olog appears in every player game and is predesigned to always betray
@@Sebastian-oz1lj I don't mean Bruz.
One of my favorite stories is when I was playing, there was this one general that just kept killing me. Eventually I would beat him and decapitate him. I was finally so relieved to have gotten rid of him. Until I was clearing out an area, then there was an encounter, I read the name, saw his face and was horrified. I quickly thought, HOW ARE YOU ALIVE I DECAPITATED YOU. He then replies with like they sewed his head back on or something. A gaming story I'll never forget.
Oh! I did my thesis on this, looking through the lense of dance choreography to see how many concepts would stick. These games (taking Mordor to be the prologue to War's larger systems) are unprecedented in how continuously and comprehensively everything is always meaningfully moving and adapting, while the player is pushed to continuously move and adapt as well. Like an improv group tango on a tiny seesaw dancefloor, rolling around on a ball. Even down at the navigation level, you're constantly prompted to adapt to patrol routes and hunts, or to rush off before folk come to investigate your activities, all the while knowing that enemies will actively learn and adapt to however you've been playing the game. This comes in directly when choosing between the many ways to defeat or avoid every enemy, as every enemy is uniquely weak or strong to each specific buttonprompt, modifier, and combo move available just then. All the way up at the macro level, standing still or using the menu systems never happens without the rest of the gameworld moving along and learning, and every single thing you do gets quantified with a different kind of ability unlock tokens that changes the playing field again. Lots of games have all this stuff, but in no other game is every dynamic bit so tightly balanced and linked to every other bit across so many layers of scale.
Moreover, everything, even paratextual menu stuff, is explicitly diegetic and meaningful. The whole thing becomes this epic of a guy resisting, but thereby only integrating deeper into Sauron's necromantic hellscape trap. There's themes of toxic macho masculinity being an endless torment here, of bigman power plays condemning you to a life of weakness and repeat death. All the while, Tolkien's unspoken orc world gets humanized and perfectly slotted into that original author's metaphysical intent and racial pantheon, as this kind of gleefully vulgar postcolonial war-elf parable that Tolkien would've never wanted to directly describe in his day.
And they even do fitting new craft and language philosophy stuff! My Tolkien soul was content. And the thesis well enough received.
Wow - that is excellent work. I can imagine that you had a memorable and interesting thesis defense when discussing how you related the game mechanics as designed by the developer into a critique of how this fits into Tolkien's literary themes. It would be really interesting to sit in on a thesis defense in which your faculty committee had professors who are interested in game design along with literary scholars who have deep knowledge of Tolkien's work. Congratulations on generating an interesting thesis (and just for completing it - as that is no small accomplishment)!
@@rayjones1455 Oh no the whole process of doing this was a mess : )
I had game studies tutors who couldn't seem to follow along with me trying out new terms to describe games with, and who admittedly never did understand dance. Then my other tutors were theatre/dance experts who hadn't ever considered games. And no one had any interest in Tolkien, or in these games specifically. I burned out hard situating my work as broadly yet meaningfully as possible in these three separate fields, so everyone could keep up and provide input. Because I was making such impressive extra effort, I suppose, everyone just kept encouraging me to keep going like that, and I ended up only finishing a fragment of the work when I got my grades and had to quit academia for health reasons. The project came together well enough for me, but I don't imagine anyone who tutored me actually got the full picture and intent.
Thanks for the compliments though, mr. Jones : )
Really appreciate it. I might one day do that full comparison of Mordor to MarioMaker, Last Guardian, and NobyNoby Boy, to round out a logical model of radically opposed rubrics for fully meaningful, dance-like systems of player movement direction in games.
I've played this game on two different computers over a few hundred hours, I've never seen "the Stitch" as a title. Not once.
This game continues to surprise me, even years later.
I played this game recently because of this video. I poisoned a barrel and then an alchemist captain appeared behind me and said "thats not how you do it mate" it was so surprising and interesting
I really want more living systems like this.
Another dream I always had playing Elder Scrolls: Bandits actually go out and make decisions, if they pillage and win, they take their spoils, whether it was gear or goods/money to be traded with sleazy merchants, they actually use that gear and maybe start to snowball. Eventually, they start recruiting more and their faction controls a lot of the land. Though, with certain scalability factors taken into account, not everyone is gonna become a bandit and they can only reproduce and supply food to a certain extent, the nation, guilds and freelancers trying to get rid of bandits also adjust their response appropriately, to keep threats they recognize in check. If Bandits become so unified it's boring, then internal conflict arises and they split up again, some camps going independent altogether.
They'd then also actually pose problems to the player, the world state could even get partially ''ruined'' if you let them get powerful enough to come together to clear a small village or take out somewhat vital npc's, which would take away trading options etc. for the player. Ideally we'd then also have a town population system, and responses from the nation at large to take the town back if still occupied, and then rebuild and repopulate, with new traders/craftsment etc. and their own traits as well as how those traits fare in the environment.
All of that happening in real time, though things can be simplified into numeric simulations when away from the player, as long as it's accurate enough and takes significant and precitable enough factors into account. For example, the chance they'd find a bear on their route to a small town, and how much of a number that would reasonably do on them in their state, little things like that. Taking factors we have a hand in into account is also important, if we helped a faction set up shop, that's a much bigger issue than a bear, this would be very satisfying to interact with.
If it's a game with a lot of differences in kind rather than differences in values, it's gonna become hard to meaningfully quantify a lot of factors though, but I don't think these bandits have to be all that complicated and mostly just fluctuate in stats, with a few special resources like ranged weapons, stealth and a few kinds of utilitarian magic, as long as one side of the equation is simple, the interactions shouldn't be too hard to predict with an acceptable margin of error. Different patrols and arising conflicts etc. simulated all around the world, until you get close enough and it transitions into a true in-game event, or alternatively, somehow reach the levels of performance required to fully run it all without abstraction... Incredibly ambitious and I've definitely learned not to expect things like this to work anytime soon (No Man's Sky/early Starbound/supposed Skyrim prototypes etc.), but I hope one day it becomes feasible.
When Skyrim came around, a lot of word was going around about a dynamic civil war, I thought they'd finally start making small steps towards systems like this, seemed like the next step up from Oblivion's janky attempts at dynamic systems with a sense of life to them, but alas.
Of course, that's a lot of processing required, assuming you can even create a stable enough ecosystem with interesting interactions to begin with, but I just know there's some nerds somewhere out there trying to crack these problems without compromising what makes it so interesting.
Thanks for explaining the Nemesis System in detail, it makes me appreciate the two "Shadow" games even more.
Basically Monolith patented "The Rule of Cool".
When you recognise the absolute potential of the Nemesis System being implented into different games....but are constantly dissapointed by fads like Battle Royale & mobile gaming & microtransactions overshadowing it.
WHY WON'T DEVS & PUBLISHERS SEE THE POTENTIAL OF THE NEMESIS SYSTEM?!
Edit: *Video mentions Monolith have a patent for Nemesis System* .....Oh. That makes sense, but still; I'd still enjoy seeing it implemented in other game genres, stories and themes, to explore the seemingly endless possibilities of the "faceless/nameless grunts" actually having a purpose past something to shoot/kill/defeat, and have some character to them.
the patent has not yet been granted, simply applied for. It's been 5 years.
And there’s a sanity meter patent from Eternal Datkness and here we have games like Amnesia who use their own version of it. I say screw patent law, long live inspired plagiarism.
Idk, the system is certainly neat but in my playthrough I just demolished every orc on our first encounter and thus didn't get to witness any real narrative. The closest it ever came was sometimes an orc would cheat death just to give me the chance to decapitate him a second time. My big "nemesis" in the story was some orc I didn't even recognize.
@@Clownbelt-u2s I came to know that there were patent for game system because of this. It is ridiculous.
And i agree with you screw patent law, long live inspired plagiarism.
@@creativecredence850 This is a weakness of the nemesis system, If you are very good or are in late game things can get boring. But we can hope that the system will grow more because of advancement in gaming industry and it will get more perfected
After learning the system and hearing improv all I thought about was “They could finally make a half decent D&D game” with a much more complicated version of just a nemesis. It would need like a really good ally system and a unique quest generation option (or it could be fan made like the recent AC games).
Funnily enough I was thinking of using SoW to best explain how D&D works to people who never played before simply because it captures that "the player makes the story" energy so well.
I had an orc in shadow of war named Narug the merciful. He would always humiliate me but never killed me. He would always run. Finally, after many death threats, I killed him. He was the greatest enemy I’ve ever face and, even though he was fun, I was glad to see him go. Later on, I was walking around my fort and listening to the orcs speak to each other. One of my captains were at a bonfire, I went to see what he wanted to say, after hearing it I left through the gate, but, suddenly enemies appeared out of nowhere and then I saw him, Narug the merciful, still alive and well. I was shocked he was still alive. Swiftly, he killed one of my favourite captains, the one at the fire, he was with me since the beginning and helped me the most during the siege of the fort, cutting his head off so I couldn’t resurrect him. I was saddened but, at the moment, filled with rage and revenge. I attacked fast and hard until I finally got him on his knees, the last word the scum said was “You were lucky, ranger” after all I did, he still didnt respect me. Tbh I was happy when my sword penetrated his heart.
I remember facing a foe in the snowy mountains. Rakuka the Black-Tooth. He was too much for me, but as I awaited death, it did not come. He declared that I was a waste of energy, and walked away. Naturally I was furious, but what could I do against an enemy who was 13 levels above me. I decided to press onwards for the time beings. However, during the final assault on the fort, guess who showed up, Rukuka himself. He sure did talk a lot of smack, saying how he wouldn’t be so merciful this time. After a grueling 1v1 fight, with all my captains watching alongside any remaining enemy prisoners, I managed to down him. He defied death, and tried to finish me, but my blade struck true. He said that he weeped for all the orcs I had killed, and asked if I even gave them a chance like he had given me.
I think about that sometimes.
Prak Jaws: 'Unintelligible Screams.' 'Translation: Allow me to introduce myself.'
Eyy, someone else that saw the nemesis system working at full capacity
Prak Jaws, the true nemesis.
I can't believe how complicated and awesome the nemesis system is. Not only that but the developers had to make assets and write lines for every individual character and possibilities.
I got this game for Christmas and have been playing it for two months. Now I’m about to take on the final boss but I’m not ready to do it yet because I’ve had such an amazing adventure playing it!
Today my bodyguard randomly showed up to deliver a treasure ork during a fight. Kinda suprised me because i have never seen such an interaction.
What?! That never happened to me!
Mine likes to show up out of no where and give me "gifts" like that it's a bit weird but I'm not complaing
@@pringlepenguin2448 perhaps he’s trying to become the favourite
Have you tried summoning him just to walk around instead of fighting? He'll randomly start talking from time to time and tell you stories or what he thinks on stuff, and they all have different things to say
Mine showed up with a worm
There are few things quite like having just finished work and discovering that there's a new GMTK episode. Keep it up, Mark!
My thoughts exactly. That feeling is better that sex. 😃
Now I understand what made me re-play this game years later. I really enjoyed them the second time around, but just couldn't put my finger on what it was. You nailed it!
A Gotham themed game with a home-made vigilante facing those kind of Nemesis would break every other games coming out during the year
I love the Orc that only says "Bloody"
This game is legit. Played all the dlc's as well. Underrated.
Criminally underrated
@@grigorirasputin6443 I love how you can sneak around and do stealth. When you get caught it's not like you're defense less. The combat and the counters and things you can do just flow really well.
@@RewdanSprites
If only they had not introduced the lootboxes on release...
@@grigorirasputin6443 It was a shame. They did take them out. It's kind of like the whole Diablo 3 thing. I'm not a fan of loot boxes but the game was good without buying any. I never struggled playing it without them.
@@RewdanSprites
True, lootboxes are irrelevant.
I remember getting killed early on by one of the orcs due to his pretty op traits in shadow of Mordor. After a few attempts of trying to kill the orc and his followers he only got stronger. seeing him at the final showdown mission felt really impactful after all of that time in game.
But when will gmt deep dive into noita 😬
Yay you got a checkmark
ohhh yeah!
Noita is so awesome, I'd love to see a GMTK video on it. The ability to make your wands overpowered as hell is satisfying and would make for a good 10-15 minute video I think
GMT still trying to beat Noita :p
Like your RoR2 c9ntent
I guess the true friends were the nemeses we made along the way
They now have a patent for this system, i really hope people contest them on this matter. Patenting intelectual proprety like this is really bad for the advance of the gaming industry
"We did this thing with our code, so now you can't EVER do it with your code. EVER!"
@@randomsimpson Now that's a villain speech if I ever heard one.
@@randomsimpson Its not that you cant EVER do it with your code its more like "We spent years on this and would like to be paid for that work" (because patent holders can sell their patented ideas and systems to other people)
Kiddos Pagaragan I would do the same thing it's good business Any company would do the same thing
@@kiddospagaragan9149 Yes, but the problem is the patent is a very vague, broad thing. Which will be used to drain smaller companies that can't afford to go on a battle with a big corporation. Exactly what played out with "minigames on loading screens".
patent game mechanics looks like: "i draw this circle, i patent it and everyone who draws the same or just similar - i can sue"
One small thing I really like about the whole hierarchy thing is that when captains get promoted their appearance changes slightly seemingly signifying their new higher rank.
The "enormous" epilogue is mentioned as if it brings down the game, but it was massively shortened and adds in new, unique equipment with special abilities, aswell as unique Orcs in some of the sieges. Otherwise, this video is very, very good
21:30 *Foreshadowing* Wonder Woman. 😃
When?
@@Lord0xThis year.
There is probably a moment in this game that gave me one hell of an adventure thanks to the nemesis system
I was just chilling in Lithlad going on a rampage killing captains to get gear and sell them for mirian, that was until I infiltrated an outpost and got alerted. I tried to fight back instead of running away with celebrimbor, we had killed over tens of them, but we got outnumbered heavily! I killed and killed until I was finally put down by a Savage orc named Dush. After he killed me, he got promoted to Captain and now became known as “Dush the Wanderer”. He was a poisonous mystic tribe slayer who was enraged by caragors, and had a fear of brutality. He was the cocky type, always scoffing on how he is the best warrior in the land. After tracking him down, he bluffed on how I was so weak and that he would be pleasured to kill me again. However, during our duel, I was able to overpower him and instead of killing him, I decided to shame him, giving him a fate worse than death. He ran away and I went along my way. Days passes and while I was helping my captains raid a camp, he showed up, ambushing us, vowing to me that he will get his revenge, due to the fact that I shamed him, causing him to get bullied by his own men. I overpowered him again, and shamed him again for his actions. The cycle kept continuing, I would track him down, he would track me, I would death threat him, he would ambush my captains trials, etc etc. However, with the amount of shaming I gave him, it caused his sanity to crumble slowly, then on one faithful day, during my captains Graug trial, he ambushed us yet again, and when I shamed him again, this time, the shame was so bad, he became a maniac! He escaped from within my grasp yet again. During this time, Celebrimbor already left me and I was in the Shadow Wars part of the game, I already garrisoned many of my Lithlad captains and warchiefs and transported them to Nurnen, Seregost and Gorgoroth to prepare the defenses, meaning, nobody was left to guard Lithlad besides my overlord. During this time, I was recruiting strong captains, but needed one who was so strong and op, he could hold the front gate all by himself just in case it get breached, thats when I discovered Dush The Wanderer was the perfect Captain I needed for the job. I tracked him down and led an assault on his camp with my captains and my Drake named Phoenix(yes I named my drake ty). After some fighting, I got him on his knees, finally dominating him and now he is one of my captains for my army. We went on many adventures, sabotaging many orc captains camps, their trials and ambushing them when they least expect them. We were a great team. To tell you he is an op orc would be a very big simplification. Since he was a slayer and a savage, his attacks are so fast, so aggressive, and deal so much damage, most captains he faces literally die within seconds, even those that can call in graugs, have epic determination, defender shields, sniper shots, marauder twin bolts or terror tribe chains, they all fell to him, while he barely gets a scratch on him. Since he is also a mystic, he had a morgul blade that lets him teleport and close gaps within a second. Meaning, even if the orc is a marksman or one who can prefers long range or dodging, he can still hit them. Also, since he is now a maniac, all he says is “Waaaaaaaaa!!!”, which was more funny and entertaining to me than his ego driven cocky side that kept taunting me when we were enemies. He also lost his weakness to brutality(mainly because maniacs can lose some of their weaknesses and he is a maniac after all, maniacs aren’t usually scared because they are insane). To reward all his efforts, I upgraded him to Epic(yes, the feats i told you a while ago, where he took dozens of captains in seconds were when he was a measly common, so imagine how strong he can be if he becomes epic or god forbid legendary) , finally giving him an elite gang that is just as aggressive as him. When I lost my fortress at Litlhlad, he is the one who led the charge against Sauron’s army with my men with his “Waaaaaaa!!!!” scream. With his help, we won the 2nd Battle for Lithlad. Everything was going well, until one siege back in Seregost caused 50% of my captains and 2 of my warchiefs to fall. So then, after making some decisions, I transferred Dush The Wanderer to his new region, Seregost. During many siege defenses, he was always the one who held back the enemy captains from capturing Point A, preventing them from progressing through my fortress. I also supported him in many missions just like back in Lithlad, ambushing camps, disturbing enemy orcs activities, doing some trolling, we had many adventures more. However, One day, I was bored and my orc men were bored too. I didn’t feel like going on a rampage with Phoenix or sabotage Az Teru The Beastmaster’s caragor pens for the 5th time. So i decided to fire up the Fight Pits and force my captains to entertain me and my orcs. It was going well, and since my captains were all legendary and had no weaknesses, things were going well. I then decided to put Dush The Wanderer in a fight pit for entertainment, without acknowledging the risks of the probability of him dying, because he is so powerful, there is no way he can die to a measely common dark assassin hunter orc(obvious foreshadowing). The fight started and everything turns out well, but during the half quarter, the assassin orc was somehow able to overpower Dush, and during the last 20 seconds, he was able to stab Dush and finally put an end to him. I was in shock , I saw my top Captain in both Lithlad and Seregost just killed by a measely common dark assassin orc in a fight pit. I was in despair, all those adventures I spent with Dush, all our fights, all our struggles, just ended there in that Seregost fight pit. I tracked down that assassin and instead of killing him, I shamed him until he became level 1(yo is this a parallel to how Dush became an unstoppable maniac, damn!). I showed no mercy and wanted him to suffer for what he did to my #1 Goated Orc. During one snowy night in Seregost, in the middle of the ice, I brutalized the assassin orc, who by that point became deranged, and his body was left there to rot. I finally made a rule to where I will never ever send any legendary/epic/any orc that has great abilities or skill set to the pit. From that point, I would usually only send into the fight pits random orcs I recruit, not my top captains, I was not that careless anymore. However, the story does not end there! After many days, guess who turns out to be alive all along! It’s Dush the Wanderer! He cheated death and was alive all along! I was breathing a sigh of excitement and relief. However it wasn’t the cheat death but stay loyal variation. He cheated death and went from “Dush the Wanderer” to “Dush the Gutless” , now having a scarred face covered in a sackbag. and was furious at me, and just screamed at me. He then rushed towards me with his triple strike, and I had to dodge it. It was a tiring fight, but i overpowered him and feeling betrayed again after his little rebellion during that one time, and despite me giving him mighty ologs and leveling him up, and supporting him on missions, he betrayed me again, I shamed him again. We were back to square one, where we were enemies again. I did some missions with my seregost captains, he would ambush me to troll with me. I trolled him when he was just chilling and drinking at his camp with his men, we were back to being nemeses. I then contemplated why he would betray me and not join my side again after surviving that pit fight turns out, it was because i never cares for him all along. Despite me giving him upgrades and supporting him on sabotage missions, I never actually saw him as an ally or a friend, I just saw him as a tool that is useful, and when I found a more powerful orc, I would just discard him. Despite all his contributions towards my war for middle earth, despite all his sacrifices to make sure my enemies fell, I didn’t care for him at all besides his usefulness. I never appreciated his sacrifices. Therefore, instead of using his betrayal to fuel my hate for him, I decided to reconcile with him. We had many fights within Seregost, but one faithful day, I lost my Seregost Fort. Then, on one great day, his Iron Will finally vanished during our fight, meaning I can finally recruit him again after all our struggles. We became General and Captain again, and I saw him as an actual ally now, not as a tool for my war. He led my Seregost forces against the new overlord, and me and him took down all the chokepoints alongside my Mystic captains and claimed the fortress, winning the 5th Battle for Seregost(yes seregost got attack a lot). Now being open minded, I finally upgraded him from Epic to Legendary and now for all his sacrifices, awarded him as the New Seregost Mystic Tribe Fortress Overlord.
Tldr That was the story of Dush the Wanderer, who went from a Savage Grunt, to a formidable Mystic Captain nemesis, To Unstoppable Mystic Maniac, to Top Epic Captain of Lithlad, to Top Epic Captain of Seregost, To Fight Pit Loser, To Dush the Gutless(Ex Captain of the Gravewalker) who wanted nothing but vengeance on me, to allies again with Talion, to the New Overlord of The Mystic Tribe Seregost Fortress, what an story!
Also I might Edit this soon with my xbox username so you guys can invade my Xbox shadow of war fortress and recruit Dush for your own so he can solo orcs for you guys, he is worth recruiting ;). I gotta update my fortress with some of my captains and warchiefs and level all of them to Legendary
Correction: I garrisoned my old seregost legendary captains and warchiefs, therefore, im levelling up new ones to legendary
This is proof that Burnout is what the game market is missing.
Rip burnout it was so awesome
uhhh imagine they make another game with a nemesis system AND a "friends system" of some kind, with betrayals and all.
they allready did that in shadow of war
@@amirsteinhart3301 they focused a lot less on your allies in shadow of war, and if they wanted to be the focus they betrayed you. There is basically no interaction between you and a really loyal Uruk, they just sit there and occasionally save your skin. Not optimal, if allied Uruks had the ability to interact interestingly with you I'd love it.
@@Lucifer_Nihilum There are a couple more interactions aside from the saves and betrayals, dominated captains can actually cheat death and come back to serve you (which happens rarely) and they also sometimes "ambush" you to give you gifts like intel or treasure orcs. The only thing missing is them referencing fighting other captains alongside you and getting saved by you.
@@TheMasterMind144 that must be new or very rare as I've never gotten that interaction.
I had an ally cheat death and immediately betray me because he was mad I let him die, I didn't know they could stay allied
I LOVED the ‘Shadow Of’ games. The lore. The music. The gameplay. All of it - going to play it again, thanks. 🙏
Nemesis system is truly amazing and I think more games should try it. I still remember the goddamn orc captain from Shadow of Mordor when I played it way back in 2014. I don't remember his name but he was an agile and extremely resilient spearman. He wielded a poisonous spear that he could throw, he was invulnerable to stealth damage, he dealt massive damage and he had only one weakness - caragors. I first met him at the start of the game and he killed me. I was pretty confident that I have the skills to beat him but he proved to be too difficult at first. When I tried to hunt him down in revenge he was a bit surprised I'm not dead and the bugger killed me again because he was even stronger this time. He then popped up a few times out of nowhere when I was fighting other captains and we would always have those epic clashes but usually they would end with him escaping because he could run extremely fast or with me escaping when I felt too outnumbered. I managed to finally defeat him literally half a game later when he was at max level and I had way more skills than before. He was trying to escape but ran past a caragor pen so I opened it and it made him panic. In this vulnerable state I managed to set him on fire and catch up with him to finally cut off his head. I don't remember much about Shadow of Mordor's story but this persistent nemesis I remember to this day!
Finally! I was running out of videos to distract me from making my game!
I’ve replayed the second game at least 5 times. This system is such an underrated feature. Don’t know how they could incorporate it a a game like Batman but for shadows it was epic. Think I’m gonna start a new play through.