Hate to be that guy. But I feel compelled to share some knowledge about magride. APR seems to be pushing the narrative that the magride in the Audi's is either on or off. That not only is inaccurate but utterly false, hence why the car has Comfort, Auto, Dynamic and Individual modes. I really dislike when companies start looking at things they can sell just to make $$$. Profit driven. Typical business mentality. First let's establish that this product is not from APR this is a rebranding. This product is The DSC Sport Controller. All APR did was paying $$$ changing the logo for theirs and they didn't even bother to change the shape of the logo. Second the S3 suspension is not bad. And is not fair compared it to the likes of a Corvette a 2 door sport car capable of going toe to toe with the best European SuperCars. The S3 is a 4door saloon. And the suspension behaves like such. Is it soft? yes. Is it harsh? not really. Is it bad? No. Could it be better? Yes. What you should be wondering is the effects of constant aggressive so called "real time" adjustment and life expectancy of the dampers. Magnetorheological fluid are subject to thickening after prolonged use and need replacing and cannot operate at extremely High/Low temperatures. As this fluid assumes properties comparable to a solid when in the "on" state, up until a point of yield. The yield stress is dependent on the magnetic field applied to the fluid, but will reach a maximum point after which increases in magnetic flux density have no further effect, as the fluid is magnetically saturated. What sort of parameters have been set in place in the calculations to avoid over aggressive adjustment better than the OEM Audi did to avoid this? Unknown because neither APR or DSC will say. APR recently make a FAQ... In it they said and I quote. Does this wear out the stock shocks, springs, bushings, tires more quickly: We have no quantifiable data to say this will wear out your stock shocks more quickly. However, this will lessen strain on various components due to the switch between aggressive and comfort through the way it’s always adjusting in real time. This will extend your usable range and life for various components, such as your tires. This answer is utter Bullshit. They claim they don't have quantifiable data. Well no worries I do. This is one of many studies. Choosing this one because of how recent it was published. Publish in April 13,2022 Title: Influence of temperature on magnetorheological fluid properties and damping performance. iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-665X/ac6346/meta I'm going to compress and simplified a bit, it goes to explain as follows: Magnetorheological fluid temperature rises significantly from atmospheric to 257.7°F with decrease in damping force by 66.32% at higher loading parameters. In other words on a racetrack or over a hard spirited drive is totally doable to be able to heat the fluid in the dampers to those temps. I have. Does Audi Race in TCR with magride on the RS3 LMS or Cupra or GolfR? No. Why? Mostly cost. Have they? Yes with the R8 but they have different mag dampers than the S3 obviously. Anyways After a scenario like this of let say having the car in Dynamic Mode on a racetrack doing sessions particle characterization will reveal particle morphology has not changed but the saturation magnetization of the particles is reduced by 57% at higher temperatures on or above 260.6°F. It has been observed through thermogravimetric analysis that, the life of the fluid is reduced marginally. Through scanning electron microscope image it is confirmed that deterioration of the particles starts after 392°F, if the fluid is operated for a prolonged amount of time. In other words. This product while cool will significantly reduced the life of the dampers, that by they way they're not cheap to buy. Have that in consideration before buying this product. Are magride good? yes. Does the S3 has good magride? To drive as Audi intended yes. To extract performance and ultimate handling not really. Is the product worth it? Can't say till I try it. But if you are so annoyed about the magride. Bilstein schocks, some DCC cancelation kit and called it a day. Or maybe check first that you don't have a bad magride damper. Also I know you are excited about this product and you are giving APR the advertisement. But saying that after 60 seconds of driving at low rural speeds you could feel the difference is not accurate. That is called PLACEBO EFFECT. Very few people who drive are that tuned into the car enough to "feel" the difference in suspensions behavior. Example Professional Race drivers. At the bare minimum I would take my S3 to a racetrack and do a before and after comparison hitting the same corners over and over, during a few sessions to really tell if there's a significant change in ride quality behavior. While data logging. Regardless if the product makes the car better or worse.
and a few retorts to some points above: #1, I don't care if APR just copied another product and put their name on it. Most companies do that. Everyone is free to find the cheapest "brand" for this controller. I went with APR because of my past history with them on this channel as well as them working with me to make it more obtainable. #2, "the S3 suspension is not bad." pure opinion and nothing else. no point in arguing on this one as every person will think a different thing. 90% of the people I talk to say the magride is too harsh in dynamic, you are one of the exceptions. #3, all the science stuff, well i read it, I appreciate your expertise on it, but don't care much about it. I go by feel and real-drive experience. #4, my first 2 min drive was nothing close to placebo. 100% the bumps were less jarring. You don't need to believe me, anyone that tries this will find out for themselves. I "feel" changes more than anyone I have ever come across on the channel, and yes I am weird and unusual. Eccentric even. Conclusion, thanks for all your thoughts, I hope it gets me some additional views on my channel. and i will continue to test this setup and drive hard when i can. (only weekends, i am in traffic every weekday.) GO TEAM!
Awesome mod bro! I haven't heard about it but then again I have no 'mag ride' (DCC) in my GTI.. It's one of my main regrets when I configured my car, should have ordered it..
i thought DCC andmag are only on AWD but maybe im wrong. maybe you can get a DCC for the front diff too? ohh im tripping, never mind.. i just realized shocks have nothing to do w AWD..
@@LastHumansGarage You were tripping bro.. LOL. In Europe you could even order it on the Golf 1.0 liter 3 cilinder spec... Even on the R it's an optional extra
Can't wait to see a future video after you've driven it for a while. I'm also always in dynamic. It's a little harsh, but it definitely bothers the wife in the passenger seat more than it does me. Not sure how I would ever convince myself it's worth $1200, but still an interesting possibility.
well, its on sale for around 1000 right now, but still, a lot of money for sure. still loving the second day, but havent got a chance for wide variety of driving style until i go to work on monday.
Thanks for the review. You bought a spoiler from me last year! Would you mind sharing the tune that ships in this? I have the dsc version and am intetested in comparing.
rumor is not quite as good as the mag controller, but plenty worth it, specifcially, i have heard of people using these w lower springs when i did a search.
Hi， I made a decision to get my APR SCU after watching your video. I received it today and installed it within 10mins. First feeling was, the car feel slow as it is much more stable, 100kmh feels like 70. However , I feel that high speed rebound is rather big, it won't settle down at once but rebound for 4 times in comfort mode, 3times in Auto, 2 times in dynamic. In which section should I tune?
well.. when i get into DSC suspension talk it takes me 30 mins just to wrap my head around all the settings again. I'll give you 2 mins of my thoughts.. Rebound is easy to adjust. Find a later video called Magic Carpet Ride. it has an actual chart in it to make it easier to understand. But anyhoo... you are referring to high speed shock adjustment only.. so you need to touch the "rebound high" setting for all 3 modes you can put the car in. on my setup, my settings for high speed rebound are the same for all 3 driving modes... 10% for the fronts.. and 20% for the rears.. This means 10% stiffer rebound than stock in the fronts.. and 20% stiffer rebound in the rear. and even i am thinking about adjusting my rebound at some point, still testing.
@@LastHumansGarage Thanks a lot for your reply. I am programming the values following your table. But I am not increasing the Shocks max current from 900mA to 1500mA, some kind of scary feeling :P
@@QWB8994 the 900 max in default file is incorrect, they shocks can take more, this was tested by someone else before i even tried it. its the magic carpet ride.
hi Wooi Ping - I’ve been seriously considering the controller for months.. how has your experience been so far? is it up to your expectations? My biggest complaint is how hard bumps and holes on the road feel, wondering if the controller made any difference with bumps for you
automatic isnt really automatic.. its just a setting like everything else. you control the low and high voltage of the shocks for comfort, AUTO, and dynamic. all 3 modes react to the exact milli amps settings you prescribe in your controller settings.
@@LastHumansGarage And the APR controller does things differently how exactly? Does APR or the individual user have a way to log what is going on with the suspension/controller to verify it is doing something different from the OEM or is this just a seat of the pants we think it's doing more than the OEM?
@@heathlyons9268 dude.. the shocks have a controller. the stock one is non adjustable. you take that controller out. you insert APR controller. You set every shock to how you want it to react. You can believe what you want.
@@LastHumansGarage Dude.. don't get all defensive. I find the unit interesting, but I'm not one to purchase something based solely off of claims vs actual data. How about a follow up video showing us all how it allows the user to control each individual shock and what it is actually doing.?
@@LastHumansGarage as in being more reactive to changing conditions of the road and adjusting depending on the feedback it’s receiving. It just seems that when you pick a setting, it sets one static configuration (I.e soft for comfort, stiff for Dynamic, and that’s it: it’s not truly variable).
@@LastHumansGarage I’m getting the feeling that what I’m asking isn’t fully understood so I’ll ask it this way: I have a sportbike; a 2018 Honda cbr1000rr sp with semi-active ohlins suspension. The suspension control unit actively monitors road conditions with over 100 calculations every second to determine optimal compression and rebound settings to help maintain the best suspension configuration while riding. Does this unit offer that?
As a 2016 S3 owner I think the standard suspension is just fine and not squishy. I don’t have a RUclips channel where I need to modify my car constantly for content so therefore I’d never change the stock adjustable suspension. I’d love to hear more about that phone mount.
you almost say that like an insult like i force out videos, but probably a language barrier. therefore, watch this episode for your phone mount. ruclips.net/video/8xwW6B2WYLY/видео.html
@@LastHumansGarage sorry I as not being critical since I’ve followed you with my WRX and GTI and now my S3. I think the WRX and GTI demographic is much more close to modding but the S3 is not a group that is as heavy into modding for performance. The 4-6 people I go on drives with who have S3’s and RS3’s don’t have more than a stage 1 at most for mods. I showed them your channel and most are interested in detailing their cars and some interior mods (everyone with S3 wants those stitched knee bolsters like RS3).
That is a neat mod. Even though I am not in the car. I can feel how it rides. Very smooth
It is still in testing, each time i drive it i am amazed even more. i havent done hard driving yet tho.
Awesome video! Lots of fun! So good to spend Saturday with you.
thanks DC comic
Hate to be that guy. But I feel compelled to share some knowledge about magride.
APR seems to be pushing the narrative that the magride in the Audi's is either on or off. That not only is inaccurate but utterly false, hence why the car has Comfort, Auto, Dynamic and Individual modes. I really dislike when companies start looking at things they can sell just to make $$$. Profit driven. Typical business mentality.
First let's establish that this product is not from APR this is a rebranding. This product is The DSC Sport Controller. All APR did was paying $$$ changing the logo for theirs and they didn't even bother to change the shape of the logo.
Second the S3 suspension is not bad. And is not fair compared it to the likes of a Corvette a 2 door sport car capable of going toe to toe with the best European SuperCars. The S3 is a 4door saloon. And the suspension behaves like such. Is it soft? yes. Is it harsh? not really. Is it bad? No. Could it be better? Yes.
What you should be wondering is the effects of constant aggressive so called "real time" adjustment and life expectancy of the dampers.
Magnetorheological fluid are subject to thickening after prolonged use and need replacing and cannot operate at extremely High/Low temperatures. As this fluid assumes properties comparable to a solid when in the "on" state, up until a point of yield. The yield stress is dependent on the magnetic field applied to the fluid, but will reach a maximum point after which increases in magnetic flux density have no further effect, as the fluid is magnetically saturated.
What sort of parameters have been set in place in the calculations to avoid over aggressive adjustment better than the OEM Audi did to avoid this? Unknown because neither APR or DSC will say.
APR recently make a FAQ...
In it they said and I quote.
Does this wear out the stock shocks, springs, bushings, tires more quickly:
We have no quantifiable data to say this will wear out your stock shocks more quickly. However, this will lessen strain on various components due to the switch between aggressive and comfort through the way it’s always adjusting in real time. This will extend your usable range and life for various components, such as your tires.
This answer is utter Bullshit. They claim they don't have quantifiable data. Well no worries I do.
This is one of many studies. Choosing this one because of how recent it was published.
Publish in April 13,2022
Title: Influence of temperature on magnetorheological fluid properties and damping performance.
iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-665X/ac6346/meta
I'm going to compress and simplified a bit, it goes to explain as follows: Magnetorheological fluid temperature rises significantly from atmospheric to 257.7°F with decrease in damping force by 66.32% at higher loading parameters. In other words on a racetrack or over a hard spirited drive is totally doable to be able to heat the fluid in the dampers to those temps. I have. Does Audi Race in TCR with magride on the RS3 LMS or Cupra or GolfR? No. Why? Mostly cost. Have they? Yes with the R8 but they have different mag dampers than the S3 obviously. Anyways After a scenario like this of let say having the car in Dynamic Mode on a racetrack doing sessions particle characterization will reveal particle morphology has not changed but the saturation magnetization of the particles is reduced by 57% at higher temperatures on or above 260.6°F. It has been observed through thermogravimetric analysis that, the life of the fluid is reduced marginally. Through scanning electron microscope image it is confirmed that deterioration of the particles starts after 392°F, if the fluid is operated for a prolonged amount of time.
In other words. This product while cool will significantly reduced the life of the dampers, that by they way they're not cheap to buy. Have that in consideration before buying this product. Are magride good? yes. Does the S3 has good magride? To drive as Audi intended yes. To extract performance and ultimate handling not really.
Is the product worth it? Can't say till I try it. But if you are so annoyed about the magride. Bilstein schocks, some DCC cancelation kit and called it a day. Or maybe check first that you don't have a bad magride damper.
Also I know you are excited about this product and you are giving APR the advertisement. But saying that after 60 seconds of driving at low rural speeds you could feel the difference is not accurate. That is called PLACEBO EFFECT.
Very few people who drive are that tuned into the car enough to "feel" the difference in suspensions behavior. Example Professional Race drivers.
At the bare minimum I would take my S3 to a racetrack and do a before and after comparison hitting the same corners over and over, during a few sessions to really tell if there's a significant change in ride quality behavior. While data logging. Regardless if the product makes the car better or worse.
only fair to release this post, which i found in my review section. i give all sides a chance to provide input.
and a few retorts to some points above: #1, I don't care if APR just copied another product and put their name on it. Most companies do that. Everyone is free to find the cheapest "brand" for this controller. I went with APR because of my past history with them on this channel as well as them working with me to make it more obtainable. #2, "the S3 suspension is not bad." pure opinion and nothing else. no point in arguing on this one as every person will think a different thing. 90% of the people I talk to say the magride is too harsh in dynamic, you are one of the exceptions. #3, all the science stuff, well i read it, I appreciate your expertise on it, but don't care much about it. I go by feel and real-drive experience. #4, my first 2 min drive was nothing close to placebo. 100% the bumps were less jarring. You don't need to believe me, anyone that tries this will find out for themselves. I "feel" changes more than anyone I have ever come across on the channel, and yes I am weird and unusual. Eccentric even. Conclusion, thanks for all your thoughts, I hope it gets me some additional views on my channel. and i will continue to test this setup and drive hard when i can. (only weekends, i am in traffic every weekday.) GO TEAM!
The excitement of men getting new mods and toys! APR
those exciting days used to be weekly... now, monthly..
@@LastHumansGarage as long as they're still comming. A little excitement is all we need
Looking forward to the long-term review! Wonder how this module would pair with the MSS Springs and MagRide on my '20 S3 🤔😁
Awesome mod bro! I haven't heard about it but then again I have no 'mag ride' (DCC) in my GTI.. It's one of my main regrets when I configured my car, should have ordered it..
i thought DCC andmag are only on AWD but maybe im wrong. maybe you can get a DCC for the front diff too? ohh im tripping, never mind.. i just realized shocks have nothing to do w AWD..
@@LastHumansGarage You were tripping bro.. LOL. In Europe you could even order it on the Golf 1.0 liter 3 cilinder spec... Even on the R it's an optional extra
@@LastHumansGarage my 2020 gli has the lsd and dcc
and add in a Haldex Tune! :)
Can't wait to see a future video after you've driven it for a while. I'm also always in dynamic. It's a little harsh, but it definitely bothers the wife in the passenger seat more than it does me. Not sure how I would ever convince myself it's worth $1200, but still an interesting possibility.
well, its on sale for around 1000 right now, but still, a lot of money for sure. still loving the second day, but havent got a chance for wide variety of driving style until i go to work on monday.
Looking forward to a longer drive review with this mod!
me too
Thanks for the review. You bought a spoiler from me last year!
Would you mind sharing the tune that ships in this? I have the dsc version and am intetested in comparing.
ill see if i have a backup, i used my DSC file from the beginning.
I see they also make this for the Golf R wth dcc wonder how much of a difference would it make since I'm also on lowering springs
rumor is not quite as good as the mag controller, but plenty worth it, specifcially, i have heard of people using these w lower springs when i did a search.
Hi， I made a decision to get my APR SCU after watching your video. I received it today and installed it within 10mins.
First feeling was, the car feel slow as it is much more stable, 100kmh feels like 70.
However , I feel that high speed rebound is rather big, it won't settle down at once but rebound for 4 times in comfort mode, 3times in Auto, 2 times in dynamic.
In which section should I tune?
well.. when i get into DSC suspension talk it takes me 30 mins just to wrap my head around all the settings again. I'll give you 2 mins of my thoughts.. Rebound is easy to adjust. Find a later video called Magic Carpet Ride. it has an actual chart in it to make it easier to understand. But anyhoo... you are referring to high speed shock adjustment only.. so you need to touch the "rebound high" setting for all 3 modes you can put the car in. on my setup, my settings for high speed rebound are the same for all 3 driving modes... 10% for the fronts.. and 20% for the rears.. This means 10% stiffer rebound than stock in the fronts.. and 20% stiffer rebound in the rear. and even i am thinking about adjusting my rebound at some point, still testing.
@@LastHumansGarage Thanks a lot for your reply.
I am programming the values following your table.
But I am not increasing the Shocks max current from 900mA to 1500mA, some kind of scary feeling :P
@@QWB8994 the 900 max in default file is incorrect, they shocks can take more, this was tested by someone else before i even tried it. its the magic carpet ride.
@@LastHumansGarage oh, then I should have followed everything in your table , thanks again! Will update you soon, btw my S3 is a sportback.
hi Wooi Ping - I’ve been seriously considering the controller for months.. how has your experience been so far? is it up to your expectations? My biggest complaint is how hard bumps and holes on the road feel, wondering if the controller made any difference with bumps for you
How does this compare to using the individual setting with suspension set to automatic?
automatic isnt really automatic.. its just a setting like everything else. you control the low and high voltage of the shocks for comfort, AUTO, and dynamic. all 3 modes react to the exact milli amps settings you prescribe in your controller settings.
@@LastHumansGarage And the APR controller does things differently how exactly? Does APR or the individual user have a way to log what is going on with the suspension/controller to verify it is doing something different from the OEM or is this just a seat of the pants we think it's doing more than the OEM?
@@heathlyons9268 dude.. the shocks have a controller. the stock one is non adjustable. you take that controller out. you insert APR controller. You set every shock to how you want it to react. You can believe what you want.
@@LastHumansGarage Dude.. don't get all defensive. I find the unit interesting, but I'm not one to purchase something based solely off of claims vs actual data. How about a follow up video showing us all how it allows the user to control each individual shock and what it is actually doing.?
@@heathlyons9268 look up my video called magic carpet ride. I show settings.
So it sounds like it’s turning it into a dynamically adaptive suspension?
i dont know if youre joking or being serious, but the magride is already a dynamic adaptive suspension. this just allows more fine tuned adjustments.
@@LastHumansGarage as in being more reactive to changing conditions of the road and adjusting depending on the feedback it’s receiving. It just seems that when you pick a setting, it sets one static configuration (I.e soft for comfort, stiff for Dynamic, and that’s it: it’s not truly variable).
@@Treizez34 yes what you said is correct.
@@LastHumansGarage I’m getting the feeling that what I’m asking isn’t fully understood so I’ll ask it this way:
I have a sportbike; a 2018 Honda cbr1000rr sp with semi-active ohlins suspension. The suspension control unit actively monitors road conditions with over 100 calculations every second to determine optimal compression and rebound settings to help maintain the best suspension configuration while riding. Does this unit offer that?
As a 2016 S3 owner I think the standard suspension is just fine and not squishy. I don’t have a RUclips channel where I need to modify my car constantly for content so therefore I’d never change the stock adjustable suspension.
I’d love to hear more about that phone mount.
you almost say that like an insult like i force out videos, but probably a language barrier. therefore, watch this episode for your phone mount. ruclips.net/video/8xwW6B2WYLY/видео.html
oh, and modding is nothing to do with youtube. you either mod, or you don't.
@@LastHumansGarage sorry I as not being critical since I’ve followed you with my WRX and GTI and now my S3.
I think the WRX and GTI demographic is much more close to modding but the S3 is not a group that is as heavy into modding for performance. The 4-6 people I go on drives with who have S3’s and RS3’s don’t have more than a stage 1 at most for mods. I showed them your channel and most are interested in detailing their cars and some interior mods (everyone with S3 wants those stitched knee bolsters like RS3).
@@arainla oh damn, those fancy thigh pads?