A Gatling Revolver? With firearms & weaponry expert Jonathan Ferguson
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- This series is all about weaponry wrong turns and the Dimancea pistols are prime examples that begs the question, "Who thought this would be a good idea?".
In an attempt to improve on the already venerable revolver design, this Romanian take is as striking as it is confounding.
0:00 Intro
0:53 Dimancea Revolver & History
2:52 Firearm Markings & Details
3:40 Second Variant
4:37 Even More Firearm Details
8:09 Firearm Disassembly
17:41 Fate of the Dimancea
20:35 Outro
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Not going to lie when I heard "Gatling revolver" I was hoping for a little multi barreled pistol with a hand crank on it.
Same
"One conscript, he spins the crank, the other, he mows down enemies like fist of drunken god"
@@Fridelain Or you have a set of handlebars on either side, a small crank protrudes out the back which you grip firmly with your teeth.
Multi-barreled rotating revolvers (called pepperboxes) were a thing for a while, but they're not that interesting mechanically.
@@alltat Well that's because a pepperbox is essentially just like a traditional revolver with long cylinders and no single barrel, the cylinder itself are short barrels. Maybe a oversimplification, and there was a variety of designs including carbines and shotguns, but not exactly Gatling guns either, anymore than a 1860 colt army is.
So many of the weapons designers of that era in attempting to make a "more modern" firearm simply ended up creating Rube Goldberg weapons it's amazing.
Wasn't expecting a 8:18 Ferguson sprite
But it was nice to see :)
I was, since it's at 2:01 already.... XD
@@DaisOfDestruction It's been on once, I didn't expect it any more times.
As an autistic person I really appreciate that the "subscribe" reminder quietly appeared on screen and wasn't accompanied by annoying sound effects like in other youtube videos.
@@Maedroth It's nice to see Jon becoming the celebrity he deserves to be lol
Definite Star Wars blaster potential with these.
Absolutely!
Yea
For sure!
Was just coming to comment this as well, hah.
Keep the likes at 66 please
The little subscribe animation is so cute 😭
"Innovation in the wrong direction."
I shall used that one (credited, of course) in future conversations.
The sprite banner is a better answer to subscription reminders than a cutaway shot. Regardless of how short it is, it'll hurt engagement with viewers skipping through it. A cute sprite is on brand and effective.
I didn't know you guys featured jigsaw puzzles.
Jokes aside, thanks for showing this to your viewers. This sort of delightfully strange stuff is why this channel is great.
Glad you enjoyed it!
tbh I would think about buying a gun jigsaw that gives you an accurate feeling of working on a gun without needing a gun licence
This is how you build a revolver while avoiding every patent in existence.
"all the practical ideas were taken, so I kinda worked with the shit ones"
- cpt. Dimancea, most likely
These old strange revolvers are super fascinating, I’d love to see you guys take a look at the LeMat revolver as well.
Yes, but they were so overcomplicated that i doubt they were ever reliable.
Given how few survived until today, this only reinforces my impression.
Though i agree with them being fascinating, definitely.
I always love to see some LeMat coverage, but I would be surprised to see it from this channel. As far as I know, almost historical LeMat revolvers were shipped to the U.S. for use in the American Civil War. They were shipped from France via the U.K. so it's not out of the realm of possibility that the Tower has one in its collection, but I'd be surprised. It's been a while since I looked at C&Rsenal though, I should see if they covered it on their Repercussion series.
The Le Mat revolver was also made in both London and Birmingham as apparently the Paris made ones had some serious quality issues.
@@williampratt1066 From what I can tell (though I'm far from an expert) the gun was never produced in Birmingham, but they were stamped with proof marks in the Birmingham proof house leading to the belief that they were. It was also never properly produced in London that I can tell, but the London Armoury Company made a few illegitimate ones. Apparently only two of those survive, but I'm not sure where they are today, so if we're lucky perhaps they're in the Royal Armouries collection.
I fully admit, I'm going off the Wikipedia page for this. They do have citations for the information above, but it's all from books that I don't own, so I can't verify it with the primary source.
@@Mankoi1701 a few years ago a book titled something like le mat the man and his gun was published it was a sort of companion to the reproduction Le Mat revolvers so might also be about as accurate as Wikipedia…..
It's not oftern you see an over-engenered Romanian Steampunk pistol, Nice!
It was specially designed for hunting vampires. Successful too. You see any vampires around today?
@@MrSloikathey laughed themselves to death 🤣
As a Romanian, it makes me very proud to see firearms designs conjured by my people getting more recognition!
I wonder if we’ll get a video on the Orița SMG one day as well!
Honestly, having seen C&Rsenal's videos on how surprisingly complex revolvers can be on the inside, this design seems kind of brilliant. Rather than having several little parts that go back and forth, , it's basically got one big part that just rotates around in a circle. It may be big, heavy and ugly, but it seems like it would work pretty well.
Thanks Jonathan and team. The design philosophy here seems to be "if it ain't broke, fix it until it is".
I think a lot of those design elements would have looked more at home in a magazine fed repeating pistol.
Several European investors produced a flurry of such designs not long before the first self loading pistols were invented. So I wonder if any of those early efforts influenced Dimancea?
Or was he perhaps more into other kinds of machinery design, where reciprocating mechanisms driven from rotating drives would have been commonplace back in the 1880s.
That sort of fits with my thought, which is that, aesthetically and ergonomically, it really reminds me of a Mauser C96.
@@jchance4d4 It is even more like some of the early Mannlichers but predates all those self loaders by about 10 years.
What an unusual way to build a revolver. I find it hard to believe that Philip Webley and Charles Scott would take on the contract to make these awkward things.
By the way Kynock was not bought out by Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI).
The company became part of Imperial Metal Industries. I remember this from using Eley shotgun cartridges back in the 1970's and asking my father why the lettering on the paper cases had two different companies names mentioned . He shrugged his shoulders and said something about corporate takeovers and partial nationalisation to ensure a supply of ammunition for the armed forces. Another success in Birmingham, just like British Leyland.
fascinating - good of you to reference your mate Ian - love his videos too - and (of course) your collaborations.
Jonathan Ferguson, firearms & weaponry expert at the Royal Amouries Museum in Leeds, in "What is this weapon?" at 4k, hell yeah.
My next guess was going to be "Rubbish Romanian Revolver." Dang.
I don't think Jonathan would dig up the Md. 1915 the C&Rcenal discussed again in their recent revolver video to give us back-to-back Romanian handguns episodes. 😉
For Americans...trash Romanian revolver
Brilliant video thanks Jonathan
Fabulous, thanks for the education
Very impressive alliteration! Respect!
Really interesting video thank you Jonathan
Always great content 👌👏salute from Chicago.
Truly a fascinating design there are a few parts of that I find to be a very clever way of of doing it, such as the double sprocket, I gotta admit I kinda like it😁.
Love the new subscribe animation that's a nice touch well done guys.
Lovely video, as always, but I absolutely love your watch!
Great video
A fantastic clockwork revolver. Might not have been very successful at the time, but I think it's amazing
hehehe that little subscribe pixel thing at 8:16 is cool. at first I thought my PC was acting up :D
would be even better, if pixel jonathan would fly away with rocket shoes!
Love that Subscribe animation
Kynoch. Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time. When I was young I recall seeing Kynoch branded sporting ammunition at the now defunct Navy Arms Co. store in New Jersey.
AFIK ammo was their main thing, they made a lot of Webley ammo during both wars and in between them, an awfully large amount of shotgun ammo, mostly for bird hunting.
I kind of like it aesthetically, and it's always interesting to see how a designer takes a different approach, even if it shows why conventional designs are, well, conventional.
Hello Jonathan. I was recently eatching "Cunk on Earth" and to my surprise i found she had a segment with you.
Please, im dying to know what were tour thoughts throughout the interview. Also were there any parts that were included but youd love to mention?
Interesting video & pistols. Wonder if the designer was interested in water or windmills as the sprocket turned 90° to the work done always puts me in mind of those mechanisms.
❤❤A biro spring out of a click pen will have a spring the rite side ,need to shorten it but to easy.
love your vids mate !!
The way it unloads reminds me of the Merwin & Hulbert revolver.
From the 1880s-90s or so, it seems. It obviously requires cartridges to fire (not a front loader), what caliber is it? If some obscure named round, what diameter of bullet? (You mentioned it later.)
I have been a collector of mostly more modern arms (WW1 - prior to WW2) and have never seen one of these, living or dead, so to speak. I likely would not buy one, but I'd certainly notice.
And I thought a Colt double action revolver was complicated!
By the way, that front sight shape was used on the early S&W revolvers until the early 1950s or so (phased out over a period) and is generally referred to (in my experience) as a 'half-moon' sight.
Fascinating development.
Striker fired revolver? I was unaware such a creature existed!
You said the Webley label didn't give you any new information, but it kind of does. It shows that it's been incomplete for quite a while, based on the age.
It seems the front (barrel) design of the first Smith & Wesson DAs was pretty popular back in the day.
Nice watch, btw.
What were the advantages Dimancea claimed?
@RoyalArmouries @JonathanFerguson I was wondering what address I should use to send you something if you wish to have them? I picked up two Lone Star British Guards toy soldiers manufactured in the 1950's that I thought you'd like. What could make them interesting to you is that they're part of a series that are carrying EM-2 rifles. They're not overly rare but an oddity in that they carry the EM-2. Happy to send them to you as a gift, for you for personal use or the museum.
Samuel Colt filed several patents in the UK after 1851, and he was not present in England to do so. He applied via his agents and with local legal representation. As far as I can see, his applications (some on behalf of his company after he died in 1862) were granted without controversy.
Pretty cool. I think what killed it was its action. Double-action-only revolvers are not a good idea because there is no possibility of taking an accurate shot. DA/SA is the way to go.
I was struggling to remember its name and went for the wrong guess anyway, so congratulations to Pierre-Louis Comte!
1:22 So, this predates all other unorthodox Kynoch revolvers with latches on the back and such like? This all makes sense now.
1:58 This animation was unexpected! I though something went wrong in editing with the patent number.
5:22 Not in the _World of Guns._ 😁
5:47 Why would one go this route at that point? Hadn't Albini's 1868 patent for swing-out cylinder safely expired by that point? Was it a strange way to compete with Merwin & Hulbert?
14:59 If your sword has such a thin tang, you'd better not touch it! 😉
15:23 An interesting feature of this gun is its short frame in the grip area, reminding me of the Enfield revolvers of the time.
18:23 It wouldn't be surprising for this gun to end up in the French revolver trials that were going on at the time, it was striker-fired, after all, and we know that a transfer bar, or a spring-loaded firing pin, if you prefer, almost made it to the final Mle 1892.
Thank you, Jonathan, that was enlightening!
Had the word Sprocket on the tip of my tongue...
Imagine in this era a lot of artisan skill was required, maybe transfer from clock makers?
At least it was bold & novel. Unlike today where everything must get through a focus group...
Or simply too afraid to try novelty - like electric cars with false grilles.
Design brief - Take one revolver and put some turny and slidy things on the back part. And some springs and mystery things. And some uneccessay reciprocating stuff. And a pointy wheel thing. Ooh and a another roundy-round back and forth up-and-downy thing.
in 1992 on a trip to Bucharest, the British Embassy arranged for me to go round the national arms museum, which at that point was not open to the general public. I was interested as I had a 6.5mm x 54 MS factory long barrel, sporting Mannlicher Schoenauer rifle, supposedly made for the Romanian market in 1911. I was followed all round the museum by two gentlemen in trilby hats and trench coats, who I think had been watching too many 1930's spy movies.
Ah, yes, a reloading mechanism that requires grabbing firmly onto the hot barrel. Top tier engineering.
This is the type of gun you get pulled on you in Revachol.
I can imagine a pairnof German engineers examining this.
"Hans! Ein revolver! Mit sprockets!"
"Too complicated, Johan, too complicated."
😂😂
I thought the Marrs pistol was weird . This one takes the prize
Wait what pistol from the other week we're talking about?
WANT!
I can see how the designer possibly considered this kind of (c)lockwork easier to time because it only runs on sprockets, but that's a lot of "ifs" with those little wheels not having quality issues with machining. Maybe they were thinking about some savings with only using cylindrical springs. Even then, it creates more problems than it could possibly solve. I can also see how it wouldn't be popular with anyone who expects access to the lockwork any easier than playing this 3d puzzle.
Geez giving German Engineers strokes with this one
The internal parts are called "gubbins?"
I thought the official term for the collection of bits and bobs was "giblets."
That's when they're meaty
I remember seeing the video that Ian did years ago about the chain firing gun and I thought it was the literal chain firing volcano pistol, but instead he meant chain as in 'constant resetting and shooting' giving us the world's first 'fully semi-auto' firing gun. Jonathan gave gave very long answer to what this does and I still don't know ifmhe a swerved really what it does. Either way, this was a silly gun that didn't need to be invented. Having 6 shots ripple off one after the other wasn't very practical at all
If you enclosed the cylinder so it wasn't an obvious revolver, this would make a decent blaster in SW.
That loading sequence would look sexy af with a speed-loader.
Idk why, maybe its just how the tang goed down into the grip, the aesthetic of this revolver makes me think of the madsen mg
I have to know more about your wristwatch. I presume it's a Casio Calculator Watch with an aftermarket band on it, but I may be wrong. Can you tell us more?
I guess the Dimancea pistols prove that sometimes even engineers can have a 'revolving' door policy on design ideas! 😂
Me thinking... There are fully automatic weapons with less parts than that thing. It must have come out of a nightmare!
From the complexity of the thing it looks like Dimancea did his apprenticeship with a Swiss sewing machine manufacturer !
Ahh.. I spy a Casio Calculator watch !
Needed to keep track of all the parts of this revolver XD
I don't understand why Jon and Ian don't make rubbings of various firearm impressions.
it's always stressful dissembling spring loaded things,
one wrong move and pieces ricochet across the room, never to be seen again.
Obviously this is a museum and so preservation is more important than function... But I wonder if you could take the guts of the white example, put a spring from a pen in where the missing spring would go, put it in the body of the dark example, and get a functioning revolver.
Secondary use as melee weapon? I wouldn’t want a clout round the ear from it.
Hey! It really is Mr Blammo, 🤣
this thing musy have been very expensive.
this looks like cross between the martini khyber pass pistol and a smith wesson no3. i gotta say, definitely one of the weirdest guns i have ever seen.
Wow ! How complicated
Dimancea is a near homonym of dementia. Significant?
I was so far off on twitter lmao
I still can't figure out what it does different, because it looks so differently, I'm confused, I don't know how any nation could even consider it, with all the other good revolvers of the time available
Did sum one ack him to make a revolver that does the same stuff as sum of the best out there, but you have to do it ur own way and it is definitely not going to be cheaper or easier to make then a typical revolver
That revolver is 'good idea fairy' incarnate.
Big, clunky, overengineered and kind of impressing anyway. Now i really want one for a steampunk outfit.
Only 36 huh? I wonder if Fireplace Guy has one?
"Mine works, Ian's doesn't" 😏
6:01 for all those who dont like these videos.
8 Bit Jonathan is retro-cool, but where is the rest of the game...?
This almost feels like an attempt to avoid *every single* patent possible.
I am glad I am not doing that in the field
I suppose revolvers are a bit Gatlingy in their own right, apart from the single barrel and all. What the frigg am I talking about now?? Nice video all the same old cork. Jolly good in fact, what?
🏴☠️
My main question is why...?
0:46 Blood red... of course it's Romanian. Dimancea is probably from Transylvania.
Why?
"Gubbins"? What am I watching, LMM? 😁
Whenever I see a design that isn't a "first of its kind" yet seems weirder than the market leader, i always try and ask myself, "OK, what perceived shortcoming was the designer trying to overcome? Patent avoidance, a perceived flaw, a perceived new capability, etc.?"
For the life of me, I cannot fathom *what* he thought he was doing, unless it was purely the ego-boost of inventing a new gun.
the audio on this channel sucks, I can only hear part of what's said part of the time, and I'm watching this on a full surround theater system not a phone.
It should've been illegal for the Gatling Gun company to make a bigass revolver that inexplicably doesn't have a crank handle that rotates and fires the cylinder as you crank it. It's just not right, I say.
When a revolver is made by a machine gun designer.
A simple DA gateloader would have been better in every way
That is the way to overengineer a perfectly functional mouse trap. Hmm, let's see, I can add 6 more parts to the two that function perfectly well, in the name of "innovation".
Over complicated just a bit.
Someone had to give Germany a run at making way over complicated guns
Is it pronounced Ky- nock or Kin - ock ?
Hopefully Jonathan can be the Keeper of Firearms and Artillery forever, because there's absolutely no one else who is going to be able to fulfil this role better than him. And how tragic it would also be that if he gave up his job he'd also have to give up his Section 5 authority, and could no long hold any of these pistols or (most) rifles ever again, such is the ridiculousness of British firearms laws.