The MFR: When the AR15 meets the Sten, with firearms expert Jonathan Ferguson
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- Why on earth did Olympic Arms develop its AR-15 to use magazines from THE Second World War era, British sub-machine gun? Join Jonathan as he pulls apart this ‘PCR’ (politically correct rifle) featuring an AR15 body and Sten magazine.
0:00 Intro
0:37 MFR 9mm
1:20 oSTENtatious Magazine?
3:10 Converting 5.56 to 9mm
4:13 Firearm Markings and Features
5:20 A Wild Jonathan Appears
5:45 Firearm Internals
10:15 Relevance and Context
14:53 Outro
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Imagine finding this in a zombie apocalypse without a mag and then the sheer disappointment when trying to insert a 5.56 mag into it
No.
@@julianshepherd2038you have chosen your doooom
walking past 9x19ml mags/rounds for months until you realise
Maybe he/she was intending people to think it was not a real weapon!
It does use 9x19mm ammunition, though - which may be easier to obtain than 5.56mm in a zombie apocalypse scenario.
In this light the pink looks dangerously close to the orange used to mark toy guns
Indeed
I thought I was color blind.
Yeah. Seeing that in the thumbnail I thought "Is this going to be about a US airsoft gun? Weird."
@@andrewcastillo9558 I am and it just looks orange.
Jonathan, I can add some details to your presentation. During the 1980s and 90s I did a fair amount of business with Olympic Arms and often dropped by their plant outside of Olympia, Washington on my frequent trips to that state. Offhand I don't recall the name Bell, but I did chat a lot with the founder and owner of Olympic Arms, Bob Schuetz. The company originally began as SGW (Schuetzen Gun Works) and over the years offered an array of new production firearms, parts, and accessories aside from their AR series. These included the Safari Arms 1911 pistol, a plastic framed version of the Whitney Wolverine 22 pistol, and a bolt action magnum rifle originally manufactured by Bauska as the BBK, but rebranded the UltraMag. The AR was their bread-and-butter, and at the time they were the only such manufacturer demonstrating any innovation. As a result, in the 1980s they created some unique AR-based firearms before such things became so commonplace as now. This included a 7.62x39 AR and a series of pistol caliber carbines and conversion kits in 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, and 10mm. I purchased and still have a couple of their early 9mm kits. I had Bob modify them by replacing the traditional plastic handguards and barrel nuts with steel free-floating handguards with integral barrel nuts. This allowed me to quickly change barrel configuration from 4" carbine to 10" carbine. As you correctly assessed, in early production kits and carbines they used STEN mags because they were readily available and cheap. These magazines did not have a piece of metal welded onto the rear of each magazine. Instead they fabricated an aluminum block which was inserted into the magazine well and retained in place by snapping into the original lower receiver magazine catch. The bottom of the insert protruded from the magazine well and held a spring-loaded lever that functioned similarly to an AK mag release. Each STEN mag was fitted with a small Fillister head screw in back that would snap over the top of the lever as you inserted it into the magazine well. This held them securely in place. How effective was this arrangement? To be fair, we are talking about STEN mags, so it really depended upon the quality of the mags an owner purchased. I presume there were some complaints because Bob also devised another setup that used unmodified Sterling L2A3 magazines. The aluminum insert for this setup was very similar to the one for the STEN but not interchangeable with it. This system did not last long because Sterling mags were not nearly so common or affordable, but I did acquire one of these kits as well. I believe it was in the early 1990s they began modifying STEN mags to the style used in your sample. This simplified the kit by eliminating the adapter block. What I do find curious about your rifle is the fact that it has a 20" barrel. All the ones I remember from their advertisements were carbine length or shorter and used bolt carriers without any lightening slots cut in them. A full rifle stock might necessitate a lighter bolt carrier because of the longer spring it uses. Of course, the company was willing to accommodate the end user with most any modification he sought. If you wish, I can email you pictures of my kits for reference.
Thank you for your comment, I'm happy that I'm not the only one wondering about the barrel length. Could you give an insight on the fire rate of these? The bolt looks awfully light for the purpose.
@@F1ghteR41 I don't recall because I had no reliable way to measure it. The short barrel was designed to accept a MAC-10 or comparable suppressor. I put an AWC MK9 on it and it matted perfectly with the short steel handguard. The longer barrel could also accept a suppressor, but this added to the overall length. Now you have me curious. I think I may have an old VHS tape of me shooting it. If I can find it and time the shots, I'll post a followup response.
@@Paladin1873 Thank you!
Thank you for the information. I'm old enough to remember the '80s, and my recollection is that Olympic Arms was quite creative and innovative. The success of their products was a bit hit-or-miss, but at least they were trying things that other manufacturers weren't.
I have this but in .45ACP. It uses a modified M3 greasegun magaazine and has a 16" barrel. What they did to the greasegun magazine is they removed the outer piece of upper sheetmetal and welded it in place like the 9mm conversions. Without the reinforcing metal (outer layer) the magazine fits into a standard magazine well. The ejector spring in mine just broke last year and I had a local gunsmith make a couple of new springs for it. It is actually two springs in mine, one spring (heavier) is the ejector spring, the smaller but longer spring seems to hold the ejector spring over to the side. You can see the double springs at 9:21 in the video. Also my bolt carrier is not skeletonized.
My carbine shoots fine with this conversion. I've had it on several different lowers over the years (I bought it in the mid-90s . It was stated that it was a Dalphon conversion).
Up until about a year ago you could still buy parts (springs bolt head etc) for it from Oly Arms.
These look much better than the Glock conversions that make the magazine angle backwards.
As an aside H&R is bringing out a new version of the DOE Colt using a version of the original magaines.
Olympic Arms, a pioneer of sorts in AR configured 9mm PCC’s. This was the type of pioneer who, aiming for the Oregon Trail, would have gotten lost, gone round in circles and ended up founding Minot, North Dakota.
This comment made me literally lol. Thank you!
@@guywhocomments You’re quite welcome. Thank you for the compliment.
Sten mags at the time cost about 2 dollars each. The upper on an AR-15 is an uncontrolled part in the US so we can buy them online whereas the lower is a firearm and has to be bought from a dealer
I really thought Jonathan had an airsoft gun for this video
He should have shown the Nerf Fortnight AR15 for comparison
@@wyattr7982 lmao
I was thinking this is some shell for a biathlon gun.
So did I, seeing the orange tip 😂
@@wyattr7982 I know he has an example of the Nerf Fortnite SCAR-L, but I don't think he has their Mk 18 just yet.
I took my son to the Royal Armouries in Leeds last year and I can thoroughly recommend visiting, parking is close by and the exhibits were great. The live shows are interesting to.say the least and all the staff were great 👍
We're so pleased you had a nice time Andrew. Hope to see you back soon.
I guess the bright red on the muzzle device was so it would easily recognized as a conversion when it was stored with other ARs
Around 6:00 - The advantage of having a goofy magazine such that the lower receiver doesn't require modification is that in America the lower receiver is the serialized and restricted component that is actually 'the firearm' from a legal perspective. A conversion that only affects the upper receiver and requires a new magazine allows the owner to switch calibers simply by pulling the takedown and pivot pin to replace the upper. An individual who already has a legally owned AR lower can purchase the conversion kit via the mail, cheaper indeed because it doesn't have to go through a Federal Firearm Licensee and it's using a cheap, readily available, surplus magazine.
Another reason for pistol caliber carbines is that you can shoot them at indoor ranges that don’t allow rifle calibers.
I would say Jonathan answered his own question about the painted flash hider. That rifle is visually identical to a standard 5.56 AR-15 from the outside. If you look at a Colt 635, they have that huge hunk of rubber hocky puck-looking case deflector covering up half of the ejection port. They also have multiple roll pins punched through the lower to mount the block in the magwell to accept the much thinner 9mm mags.
So if you had your rifles in your safe or on a rack, all you'd have to do is glance at the ejection port and you'd immediately know that you were grabbing your 9mm Colt 635 instead of a 5.56 AR. That could be a life-or-death mistake if you were grabbing the rifle because someone just broke into your house in the middle of the night, or a massive inconvenience if you were grabbing your AR-15 to go to the range with your buddies and didn't realize until you got there that you accidentally brought your 9mm instead and now had nothing to shoot.
Painting the flash hider on this rifle makes it pretty much impossible to mistake this for your standard 5.56 AR in your safe or on your gun rack. You see that bright orange (you called it pink but it looks orange on video) flash hider and you know exactly what rifle you are grabbing...your 9mm instead of your 5.56. Painting the flash hider is also a good choice because that part can simply be unscrewed from the barrel and a stock black flash hider can be reinstalled for the "factory correct" look.
My concern is that someone would mistake this gun for a toy. In the US at least toy guns (airsoft on down) will usually have orange on or covering the barrel to make it clear to law enforcement or others that it is in fact a toy.
Through some google searching I have found it is apparently generally NOT illegal to make a real gun look like a toy, which is insane to me, proud firearms user, but I would recommend all fellow shooters to not make their guns look like a toy, for the obvious reasons.
Curious if the UK laws are any different.
Airsoft guns often have orange “flash hiders.” Split seconds do matters.
It's the most likely explanation I agree.
@@ThebearCornal In the UK airsoft guns have to be at least 50% brightly coloured (so a pistol for example would need either the slide or the frame painted bright blue, bright red etc). You can still buy real colour airsoft guns, no orange tip or anything, you just have to register with the retailer's association and go to 3 airsoft games over a 2 month period to prove you're actually going to use it for airsoft
@@ThebearCornalYes, the UK laws are very, very different. Most airsoft websites in UK will give you some starting information. Search for UKARA and/or VCRA. BTW, every airsofter outside the US (and many inside) think the blaze orange tip is an utterly stupid idea. If it looks like a firearm, it’s a firearm until proven otherwise, no matter whether it’s painted or (like mine) absolutely realistic.
About 20 years ago, I bought a Rock River Arms "clone" of the Colt SMG. It uses the Colt magazines which are double-stack, double-feed and have been absolutely reliable for me and no conversion required since it's a dedicated lower receiver. I can confirm that it's tremendous fun and cool as well. As far as practical use, it loses to a 5.56 mm AR in almost every category, although I can see why law enforcement would want one that's capable of automatic fire. IIRC, the U. S. Marine Corps uses the Colt SMG in limited numbers, so there's clearly some logic to them...but for us civilians, it's mostly just for fun. And, yes, Rock River does now make a version that TaKeS gLoCk MaGs if you just have to have that.
WRT the painted flash reducer, that well may have been to keep from mixing it up with one for a 5.56 barrel. Trying to force a 9 mm projectile through a 5.56 mm hole could give you a very bad day.
Love the dry humor.
“These would probably be more popular in the US.” When referencing pistol caliber carbines.
I’m so glad y’all at least have museums to see what guns look like.
Conversions for ARs are usually pretty easy, especially if you can keep the same hammer and buffer weight. Replaceable upper receivers are popular, but for .22lr you can even just replace the BCG and magazine.
I have an Olympic 9mm AR. The bolt is unique and the magazine adapter locks into a regular AR lower allowing for the use of STEN magazines, which I have many of since I have a nice STEN gun too. Reliable, accurate and fun to shoot.
It’s pink to show the “naughty” end
I'm a simple man. I see Jonathan Ferguson, I click.
You do right.
The 'Deluxe' model came with a Stirling magazine. 😉
Look at Mr Fancypants over here
Jonathan and RA team, I'd love to see a video explaining the different routes weapons typically arrive in your collection and how you might go about finding out their history! I'm always intrigued when there's some information missing or the exact provenance is unclear. Thank you for this series, another great video!
Olympic Arms made some cool stuff. Sadly went out of business in 2017. Using a Sten mag is funny, but I imagine someone out there has a warehouse full of those magazines. Just like the demand for Pistol-Caliber Carbines that are compatible with Glock mags.
This was probably an early 9mm conversion. The Sten mags were cheaper than Glock mags and just needed a modification to fit the standard mag well. All you had to buy was the upper and mags with no background check.
@@nasaboy87 In the 1980s they offered at least two versions of modified STEN mags and briefly a version using Sterling L2A3 magazines, but these were harder to come by than the STEN mags. In the early to mid 1990s they offered CZ75 and Beretta 92 magazine insert options, and eventually a full size plastic AR magazine with a 9mm insert.
Olympic operated about 40 miles south of where I live. I had been to the factory many times and interveiwed for a job once. They shut down about 8 years ago. I saw those 9mm conversions frequently. They were intended to compete with the Colt 9mm which at the time, really were the only 9mm AR15 competition out there.
I did a lot of work with the company, starting in the 1980s, and always visited the plant to chat with the owner, Bob Schuetz, whenever I flew into Seattle. I never did find out why the company shut down. Do you know?
@@Paladin1873 I can't say conclusively as I don't know. I mean, I know someone who worked there and coudl ask. But I suspect what happened is the principles just got to old and no one wanted to carry on? I know the job I applied for in the machine shop, was very low paying even for the time.
@@tomliemohn624 Thanks. I know Bob was getting pretty long in the tooth, but I presumed his son would take over the business. Maybe the competition from so many other newer companies was becoming too much for them.
Yes, the Sten mag AR conversions were not that great for reliability etc.. In the US the lower is serialized part so you could use the same lower for a 556 upper.
Also, there are some full-auto lowers that you can legally purchase. If you want an SMG, then theoretically you could obtain a full-auto lower and one of these uppers and you'd be all set.
@@t4nkychannel921 ive seen ar style uppers to be used with MAC-10 lowers just so you can have full auto... prolly shoots like absolute ass
I have an Olyarms in CA that is a pre 2000 registered assault weapon. I dont remember the designation but it is a car-15 lookalike with a 10.5 inch barrel and 5.5 inch flash hider with a collapsible stock in 5.56. At the time there were no local ranges that allowed rifle calibers so I ordered the 9 mm conversion in the same configuration from Olympic and a few converted sten mags before hi-cap mags were banned. I also have two of the other aluminum mag well conversion that have a flapper release which I prefer. Ive also got one of their straight polymer 25 round 9mm mags and was going to order more but Olympic closed up shop. The spring ejector works just fine but my bolt is not skeletonized. Ive shot thousands of rounds through the 9 MM conversion and very rarely have a malfunction. It is also very easy to bumpfire because i think it needs a heavier buffer. When i shoot it out in my super secret shooting spot out in the Mojave I can bumpfire all day long and im guessing it sounds about 700 to 800 rounds a minute. Recently I bought a flattop upper to replace the a-2 carry handle and drilled the three holes in the upper receiver to accomodate the ejector spring in my make shift machine shop/weld shop/paint shop and it fits under modern handguards .Its still my favorite AR as Im now at 13 ar15s .Number 14 is on its way as a stripped AR10 receiver. Side note... my Oly Arms 5.56 car -15 was a jam-o-matic so i bought a Bushmaster 16 inch Dissipater barrel with a Fulton Armoury
side cocker and it runs like a sewing machine with the Gisselle trigger and 55 grain GI ball, Cheers from behind enemy lines in Los Angeles county!
e
The Colt 9mm SMG is in Rainbow Six Siege know as the "Commando 9" if you ever do another video on Siege.
There is one in killing floor 2 also
This was quite the bizarre firearm, looks somewhat like the Colt 9mm SMG(hence the foreshadowing as you've specified). Thank you for explaining us how this love-child of a firearm works Jonathan👍.
The pink is to make sure you know it's 9mm not 5.56
Certainly makes sense. I look forward to all the 300BLK owners adopting neon pink flash or sound-suppressors...
Anything but orange tip is good
That's exactly what I was thinking, it makes it very easy to distinguish it if its sitting on a rack or on the bench with other A2's
I concur that most likely, the muzzle device was painted to discern at a quick glance the caliber of the firearm. In the same way, some mark their magazine for caliber destinations with each caliber in a different color.
A number of us with 300 B.O. were using lime green to I.D. 300 B.O. that was about 10 or so years ago.
the receiver might have been made in 1993 but who knows when that upper was made. it might be important to keep the lower because it might have been registered under the assault weapons ban allowing it to have the "assault" features instead of having a new purpose made lower but having to comply with the assault weapons ban.
Dear Jonathan,
Another reason for the conversion might be to reduce the risks of over penetration. Since it operates from a closed bolt it would be more accurate than a lot of 'pure' smgs.
Frank.
Also, the Olympic magazine adapter has a fixed blade type ejector which allows the use of any AR lower with the Olympic 9mm upper since no cross bolt ejector is needed. Kinda neat.
Very interesting
I spit my soda when Jonathan defined the mfr. Lol
Another Great Video Jonathan , Great Stuff Luv it '' 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
The 9mm PCC had a few additional selling points. Firstly, a lot of places in the US are very cold in winter and the 9mm can be readily used on indoor pistol ranges. Secondly, whilst firing almost any firearm without hearing protection is not recommended, the 5.56x45mm is particularly nasty indoors - therefore, accepting increased barrier protection as a tradeoff, the 9x19 is a more practical poposition for home defence, if you wanted to retain your hearing. Some police departments in the US might have wanted to have the same ammunition in their patrol carbines as in their pistols for administrative purposes. Lastly, these guns came in when 9x19 was still fashionable for SWAT teams etc. So, in some ways they made a lot of sense back then and they still do to a lesser extent.
One real reason for PCC is a lesser risk of overpenetration, critical for hostage scenarios. Also the US Department of Energy had their PCC for nuclear power plant security. Not sure why they didn't go for a regular MP5, probably cost.
Jonathan mentions the Hahn system of these sorts of magazine conversions, but if he's referring to the Hahn Precision guys who make 9mm mag blocks for current ARs to this day, then unless they used to do this, their Sten Magazine adapter is a drop in part into the lower and lets you use unmodified magazines. I believe the modified magazines were probably only offered by Olympic Arms themselves
1:00 Probably to be able to quickly visually ID it as not being a standard 5.56x45/.223 chambering
I know there’s a range at the RA, Leeds- I’d love to see a demonstration of these weapons
Keep up the good work
I suddenly hold big respect to Mr. Bruce Bell.
I was a bit confused when I first saw the bright pink muzzle, I was wondering why we were being shown an air-soft weapon because in the U.S. all air-soft weapons are required to have a bright orange muzzle to differentiate them from real weapons.
Olympic Arms and their AR-15 versions have always fascinated me
My department had 3 Colt SMGs. Initially we had problems with one, but some judicious stoning (similar to filing but done with a hard stone) created a very reliable weapon. Not on a par with the MP5, but nothing is. I also got to fire an integral suppressed version and it was very, very quiet.
I have a 9mm integrally suppressed AR15 and with the right ammo it meters 117dB. The noise of the bolt falling on an empty chamber is 114 dB. This thing is QUIET
@ExpatriotSilencers I know I was really impressed with the Colt version. I'm jealous of your weapon. I live in California and have retired from the police department, so I can only play with the cool toys when one of the guys invites me to "help sight in" some of the weapons. I live in California, so I can't even own a regular AR.
US federal law requires all toy guns to have a blaze orange tip on the muzzle to distinguish from real guns. Airsoft guns are also included in this category. Pistol caliber ARs and PCCs have risen in popularity in recent years. Probably due to ammo prices and marketing by the industry. I wander if the previous owner painted the muzzle as a joke because it shoots 9mm, which they considered was a wimpy cartridge? Less lethal means it's a toy? 9x19 is more than deadly put of a 9mm AR. The sten mag is interesting though, never seen that before. I guess colt 9mm mags weren't as available. Nowadays, it's usually glock mags, with colt mags in a far behind second. Neat little rifle.
The colt 635 has the ejector in the magazine.
I like the video thumbnail; it says to me "Jonathan Ferguson accidentally doing a comical impression of Al Pacino in the movie 'Heat' is the perfect metaphor for this pistol calibre AR-15 using repurposed Sten mags." 😂
Also, I suspect the muzzle brake is painted 'Airsoft orange' because AR-15 purists thought converting to 9x19mm was essentially the same as turning their beloved rifle into a toy.
Do the AN-94 next, it may already be on the list. But soon please!
Noted!
I have the 5.56 MFR I had no idea they had a sten pattern version
i thought it had some magwell adapter in it until he pulled it out with the big block on it
"Olympic Arms" and "a bit questionable" go together like bread and butter.
Thanks Jonathan and team.
It was very interesting to see this one. I'm glad someone found a use for all those surplus STEN magazines. My friends used to buy them for £1 each at arms fairs, because why not at that price?
I wonder what the original meaning of M.F.R. was? Was it anything to do with forged receivers? or was it just used by OA as their standard term for their "own brand" AR-15 rifles?
Umm. 😒 I think he covered the 'MFR' moniker!
@@grahampalmer9337 I must have missed its original meaning - I only registered its amended meaning after the assault weapons ban.
The reason for the Sten magazine is likelihood of being cheaper than a Uzi magazine. For the price of one Uzi mag you could get three in bulk for the same cost. If it didn't you put it away in box .when you had enough you broke them down . Put new springs in and continue to do so gill they fell apart. Then you tossed them.
After visiting the reloaded presentation a couple of times and chatting to your team members I understand that some staff have had the opportunity to fire the millennium gun, just wondering if there is any possibility of you posting a video of this? Thank you
Immediately when I read the Brand of the artifact in question, I had the story 'assemble' in my head.
Olympic Arms made a LOT of "AWB Malicious Compliance" products. Many didn't work 100% reliably, but they didn't have to. They were a statement.
They were more an 'artifact' of 1A-excercise, than 2A.
Amusingly, a lot of the 'experiments' OA produced, were predecessors in concept (or actual design), of the "Many Flavors" of AR15-platform descendants, today.
So, in a way: America's AWB actually had the opposite effect of desired. Instead of being a "restriction", it became an "Evolutionary Pressure".
I have a 635 that uses the original colt mags and its great, I built it from a real parts kit.
Good Lord, we had one of these!!! 😂
So. You've got two of them. A couple of times during the video we could see the rack behind & there's another AR type rifle with a 'HiViz' red flash hider in it. 😐
Interesting early Pcc. Any plans to write annother book.
Please tell me you have an Olympic Arms OA-98! I'd love to see that featured!
A quick search of the public facing Royal Armouries Collection Database shows that they do have one OA-96, serial number AUK0309.
This is listed as a "carbine" and as a 0A-96 not an OA-96. Its record does not list barrel length data or whether or not it has any kind of stock fitted. The database does not list any OA-98s (or 0A98s).
If you search the database for "0A-96" (n.b. "zero"A-96) you should get this item (object PR.12229) as your first hit.
Searching for "Oylmpic Arms" brings up three OA firearms, including the one featured in this video.
The database's public search engine is still misbehaving, so the #WITW quiz is helping me to learn workarounds for effective searches (in spite of the bugs).
Speculation: Getting the local police (or concerned citizens) to stop and think "Is that a toy...or an airsoft gun?" might have been exactly why the owner did that bright pink paintjob.
Good idea, but the required colour is "blaze orange" in the US and anywhere else I can think of. Plus this didn't come from a criminal context.
@@jonathanferguson1211 Fair point, although I'd note that the idea of a...what's a good term..."friendly" (?) paintjob in this theory is to avoid a criminal context...so maybe it worked? Can't cover the colour difference (maybe just what was on hand?) but if we assume the idea was to defuse that initial surge of adrenaline then it just has to be vaguely close.
Also wasn't there some concern about people disguising genuine firearms as airsoft and subsequent regulation? A 'close but distinct' scheme would solve such entanglements.
(Obviously the only way we'll ever know for sure is to find the painter and ask, but there might be some difficulties there...)
Nope it's a reminder that this weapon is 9mm not 556
Sorry, what I mean is that this came from a UK dealer, who has no need to avoid police attention or deceive, and since coloured tips aren't a requirement here, there would be no advantage in painting it as such. It's a crime to have even an imitation firearm in a public place without 'good reason' so you'd still be in trouble. Personally I think it's more likely that they wanted to easily distinguish it in their armoury/gun cabinets from 5.56 rifles. Even that is pretty wacky, since it won't accept a 5.56 mag @@Yuzral
Good point. A UK dealer/previous owner completely knocks out my reasoning - I'd seen AR and assumed 'Murrica. My bad.@@jonathanferguson1211
Mac-10s often took Sten mags, since the 90s. In fact, the polymer mags for the Masterpiece Arms Defender might still technically be Sten-Pattern.
Colt really did this with infinitely more elegance and grace, mounting a fixed spacer block in the magazine well (which adds the needed blade ejector), and then doing a clone of the Uzi's magazine with an added hold-open. Uzi magazines are a whole lot better, and it gives you more options for sourcing extra magazines (while also giving you more options for sourcing magazines for an Uzi, by the way).
This feels less like a product and more like some one-off newbie gunsmith project. If you were to use a British SMG magazine for something like this, the Sterling's magazine would be a far higher performing candidate (and I've seen a one-off home project 9mm AR which used them), but they're unfortunately less commonly available.
I've incidentally seen a handful of one-off 9mm and .45 caliber AR15 builds which DID use the original Stoner gas system, and apparently they do work, but they really do run right at the edge of reliability and takes a lot of tuning to get there, hence why doing just an unlocked blowback action which won't make a fuss is a lot easier.
In more recent years, some manufacturers have been experimenting with various delayed blowback actions, which I think is quite cool.
Olympic Arms was a sub par manufacturer of AR pattern rifles. The pink muzzle device was probably just to identify it as a non 5.56mm rifle
So as a citizen of the free country of the United States who has quite a bit of experience with ar series rifles I'll share some info. The painted muzzle device is very likely to indicate that it's a larger flash hider inside diameter. I don't go more than a month without hearing of someone putting a .223/5.56 muzzle device on a pcc conversion/build. The a1 upper is really more like a c7 upper which was popular with the Canadians I believe. The 9mm ar's that are super popular these days are usually a dedicated lower that takes pistol mags. I believe the reason the gas key is still present is due to how the bolt rides in the upper receiver. It helps guide the carrier as it travels back and forth in the upper. I can't recall if the gas key or the bolt has the ledge for the charging handle but I digress. Lastly you are correct on the skeletonized bolt carrier being there to match the reciprocating mass that is the carrier and the buffer. If you didn't change the buffer and the spring you would probably have cycling and reliability issues. Great to see some more arms from my home country.
Thanks, that seems to be the most logical reason behind the strange paint job.
In the states we use some AR t5s in 9mm for close pest control or to save on the cost of ammo.556 cost more than 9mm . Also most of these 9mm weapons use Glock 17 or 19 mags.
Jeez! You must have huge mice if you need 9x19 for pest control! 😮
@@grahampalmer9337 Coyotes and bobcats will most likely be the most common pests you will see
@@grahampalmer9337 more like close coyotes...556 may travel to far if missed
@@grahampalmer9337Reminds me of the Scottish bloke visiting Canada: “If that's a moose, how big are the cats??”
On the MFR, it looks like it's specifically copying the Colt Model 715, which was almost like inbetween the M16A1 and M16A2. It had the forward assist and brass deflector, and the new furniture and delta ring, but it retained the A1's simpler combat sights, and Colt offered it with the lighter A1 'pencil' profile barrel as an option, also foregoing the 3-round burst for the A1's Safe/Semi/Full.
The Colt Model 715 is very close to the C7 rifle which Canada adopted.
Still waiting for the Khybar AKMSU
It's on the list ;)
@@RoyalArmouries c:
Presumably the lower still works with a 5.56 upper?
I would think so except maybe with a different buffer and spring?
@@jamesferguson2353Correct
Olympic Arms were famous for being the ones who got Chinese steel core 7.62X39 banned from importation. They thought it was a great idea to make a 7.62X39 AR-15 pistol. With armor piercing pistol ammo being banned by law. No more Chinese steel core imports.
This lesson was apparently lost on several AK manufacturers when they made 5.45X39 pistols. Just like that, all 7N6 imports got banned.
In case you're wondering, the 5.56 is specifically exempted from the import ban. 🤠
Engineer: "need something for the new ejector..."
hey cool, something I can speak to...
I've had an early Oly 9mm upper for about 25 years, I bought it attached to an NFA registered select fire AR15 lower receiver. What really strikes me about your review is the skeletonized bolt carrier- my Oly 9mm bolt carrier is not only not skeletonized, the rear of it contains a metal plug, increasing the weight of the bolt carrier substantially. As I said, mine is old, over 25 years old, so I am curious why Oly went from one extreme to the other with the bolt carrier weight. What I can say is that mine works and has been extremely reliable for thousands of rounds. The forcing cone used to center the bolt works, and it works with lots of cheap garbage dirty ammo. Cleaning firearms is anathema to me, and I've never cleaned off the centering surfaces of the forcing cone bolt. It doesn't get dirty, by it's nature I reckon. The magazines- hoo boy, the magazines... you are obviously aware of Sten mags and loading of- so imagine trying to load Sten mags without the Sten mag thumb ring tool- because that's where you're at with this thing, because the extension welded on makes the Sten thumb ring mag loader unusable. Fortunately, there were a couple guys who came up with an aluminum bit that fits in the magazine well and allows the use of Sten mags unmodified. They have a large paddle release that acts on the unmodified Sten mag, while they use the stock AR lower mag latch to keep in place in the AR lower. Simple and practical and reliable.
The extractor- wickedly sharp from being honed by the bolt carrier! But also, very durable and reliable.
Blowback operated, so felt recoil is not much different than 5.56mm, it can have more of a 'bite' to it with big 147 subs but in full auto it's very controllable- I cut my barrel down to 8 inches and have a suppressor under the handguard and use a full length heavy buffer and a mid-weight spring, so the rate of fire is adequate, 750 or so.
I also have an early Oly Arms 9mm AR15 and mine has the same bolt that you describe. I also added a max weight buffer and the thing runs very reliably. I can only image a skeletonized bolt in this blowback configuration would be way too light.
My Oly Arms 9mm kits are from the 1980s. The bolt carriers do not have weights in them or any lightening cuts. One kit uses a magazine well insert that accepts a standard Sterling L2A3 magazine. A spring-loaded lever protruding from the bottom of the insert acts as the magazine release. The other kit is very similar but accommodates a STEN magazine. The STEN mag is slightly modified by the addition of a small Fillister head screw in back that locks over the top of the lever when you insert the magazine.
I had a 10-inch barrel length upper from this company in the 90;s and it worked well on my legal full auto lower. It used the same modified magazines. It is unfortunate that you have never been able to build ARs in your country since it is easier than you refer to the process. I have built several semiautos that work well using the Colt pattern magazines and a mag well adapter.
There is no law against home gun-smithing in the UK but all pressure bearing gun parts are covered by licensing legislation. So it is unusual for individuals who are not Registered Firearms Dealers to (legally) build firearms from (legally) procured parts.
As a consequence of the UK ban on the general ownership of centrefire self-loading rifles, they are some UK RFDs whose business includes the construction of custom AR style rifles for competition use.
This will include both manually operated (e.g. straightpull) models in centrefire calibres and .22 rimfire self-loading versions. The latter are popular for "mini-rifle" action shooting events.
Quite primitive in design compared to the Oly 9 that I have used. Full auto, short barrel with an integrated suppressor. The upper drops onto any AR lower and one uses a mag well adapter that screws into the well with their own system. The unit I used took the HK style MP5 mags. Again unique. The 1994 ban expired in 2004.
Am I hearing things, or did he say the Sten mags were plentiful & cheap in the 1890’s?
Seems more than a little mean to enjoy these presentations and not give a like. Always interesting stuff 👍🏼
We couldn't agree more ;)
"bright pink paint on this muzzle device which I'm afraid I can't explain" Well there goes my question! Peace!
Something most Americans dont realize these days is that we have Olympic Arms to thank for the banning of the import of cheap, surplus steel core 7.62x39mm ammo for civilian use. The company introduced the first semi auto pistol (an AR pistol) to the market in 7.62x39mm and since the ammo had a steel core (dispite being mild steel and more of a replacement for lead than for armor penetration) the cartridge then fell under the perview of a law which prohibited the sale of armor piercing handgun ammo to civilians and therefore illegal for import. A similar thing happened with the 7n6 5.45x39mm cartridge in the 2010s. Around that time there was talk about banning the import of steel core 7.62x54r since there was a company developing an AK style pistol in that caliber. They eventually decided not to bring the gun to market. Today most of this is moot since a lot of the cheap surplus 7.62x39mm came from China and 5.45x39m came from Russia both of which now have trade sanctions placed on them for most if not all types of consumer ammunition. I dont imagine there is much surplus 7.62x54r still floating around out there either. I suspect most of that which is remaining has probably been sold to the belligerent partys of the various wars which have occured over the last 20 years.
No, you have Congress and Presidential executive orders to thank.
The fact that it's an M16 bolt intrgues me. Since the lower receiver is unmodified from a standard AR-15 lower, could one hypothetically affix a select-fire "machine gun" reciever from an M16 or M4 to this and run it in automatic, or is there some other component missing from the upper that would prevent this?
Am I colorblind or what
that muzzle is orange or red, but nowhere near pink
Looks orange to me, too. Maybe the color degraded over time?
I think it might be the lighting or the camera. Making it bright enough to clearly see all the parts and details can sometimes wash out colors in odd ways.
@distractiblejeff1285
Maybe Johnathan is colour blind
Why am I seeing pink instead of orange?
Understanding Color Blindness - All About Eyes
Tritanomaly-faulty blue cone. This condition is the least common form of color vision deficiency. Individuals with tritanomaly see the world in shades of pink (standing in for orange, yellow, and red) and turquoise (standing in for blue, green, and violet).
Maybe it's Hunting Pink, the traditional fox hunting attire, which is actually scarlet. Got to keep up with English traditions :-)
You either have a crap monitor or it needs calibrating.
can i ask?... are you guys allowed to keep guns in your collection at the royal armouries that have the serial number purposefully removed?, like a really old/rare/expensive gun but with the serial number removed??
A serial number is not legally required here :)
Thank you for your comment. There will be a loud knocking on your door in 5, 4, 3, 2 .....
@jonathanferguson1211 As an American, that's really interesting to me. I know the idea here is that they help identify guns that may have been used in crimes, but with Britain having far less gun related violence, was it just not considered necessary? Sorry if I've got it all wrong.
@@jonathanferguson1211 thnx mate!!
@@distractiblejeff1285 In the USA Serial numbers are also used to prove ownership, to track weapons for administrative purposes, and to permit weapons. Needed for registration so the gov can come and seize them at a later time.
The ATF and presidency were really upset over the 80% receivers that lack a serial number.
This instantly reminds me of those old 8mm blank firing versions of the M16
Thinking about it, first time I saw it was when Tony Robinson (Baldrick), used it on the sketch show Who dares, Wins
In America some idiots will paint the end of their barrel pink to make it look like a toy gun because if they are a felon who can't posess a firearm it might make the police think it's an Airsoft gun a d not something that needs to be looked at. There are also people that do it as a joke for non-nefarious reasons.
Yes and the bad people also paint them in nerf branded coloring aka bright colors
what i wanted: the chassis of a Sten, basic tube gun, blowback system from AR, shooting 5.56 from AR mags UNDER MAG WELL.
I'm disappointed. it's just an AR converted to use Sten mags 😢
Did not see the frankenSTEN though. Ar15 stock with STEN magazine on the side and 1" thick tube
Is that neon pink? Looks like a redish orange to me. So, is the color of the recording off? Is my phone borked? Or are either myself or Jonathen some type of colorblind? 😅
Most men are colour blind to some degree. Anthropologists think it's a contrast/depth perception thing. I can't see it (sic) myself, but hey!
It's also why (most) women are better colour matchers than men.
Looks reddish orange to me as well, so it's certainly not just you.
It looks pink from some angles and then red or orange from others. Its probably the light sources which change how it appears.
It looked more red to me, but then again, I am red-green colourblind, so nuances of red and green constantly trip me up.
I'd guess this is for training, with simunition/marker rounds, at a time/place when 5,56 ones weren't either available, or wouldn't run the action, without loading them them to a point they'd be dangerous to shoot at your colleagues! that could explain the pink muzzle, as simunitions were available in pink and 9mm luger is by fair the most common round.
11:44 Sten magazines were plentiful in the 1890's? Did you intend to release this on 1st April, Jonathan?
This weapon is illegal in Canada (today) for so many reasons, but that painted muzzle device might be the most illegal part. (Disclaimer - my active knowledge on this is 12 years old and I haven't bothered to look it up again for a RUclips comment.) Like many countries, Canada requires toy firearms to have a bright, usually red, muzzle tip - but there was a brief period were folks were trying to hide their real (illegal) guns by putting bright red tips on them, so it's become a very significant office to put such a muzzle marking on an actual firearm.
I was close on the design look. Weird the thing has pretty much a safety orange muzzle and has a mag adapter like thing on a mag
If this a straight blowback action why would the bolt be lightened, shurely it would have to be as heavy as the sten bolt?
DEA formed by Nixon used colt 9mm carbines . Jumping in and out a helicopter in the jumgle they wanted an American subgun. Id have gone to mp5. My old 9mm mp5 clone with a forged receiver runs like a swiss watch.
I kind of reminds me of the Sherman Firefly😂
10:05 Did it 'Sproing'' there?
having a coloured barrel end that makes it look like a toy gun is probably not a good idea
I came across all sorts of modded ARs in the 80s everything from UK modded 9mm CAR15s to shotshell Colt Sporters with extended barrel liners . Colts man here had his workshop in Thundersley Essex but I doubt very much if he had anything to do with this. My guess here is that this conversion to a pistol calibre was done in order to attempt to register the rifle as a pistol after the 1988 Firearms Ammendment Act which eventually proved pointless as pistols would be banned in 1996 .
I believe this example was purchased by the Ministry of Defence Pattern Room from Conjay Arms Co., London in February 1999.
The 1988 FEA prohibited "any self-loading or pump-action rifle other than one which is chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges" so a 9mm AR self-loading rifle would still have been a Section 5 item after the act was passed.
The 1968 and 1988 Firearms Acts seem to rely on normal common sense definitions of the term rifle and pistol, so I think any rifled centrefire arm with a proper full stock would have been regarded as a rifle in court.
@@derekp2674 Yes of course . Kind of makes this a completely pointless curiosity whatever way you look at it when 223/5.56 was just as plentiful as 9mm P . An in house test rig perhaps for reload development data for a 20" barrel but still pretty pointless .
@@georgerobartes2008 Its entry in the RA database suggests it was produced as a training rifle. That said, I agree it was more likely to have been acquired as a curiosity than for any more specific purpose. It also seems to be the only 9mm calibre AR in the RA collection, at least as far as I could tell from the database.
@@derekp2674 Would RA list the Colt 9mm M635 under SMGs , as it would be odd for the RA not to have one ?
@@georgerobartes2008 I'm not a person who can give an official answer, but my observation is that the collection database is organised into a number of searchable fields. The Object Title field normally contains the makers name and model. But I don't think there are any fields specific to just whether or not an item is an SMG.
So, for example, searching using the two keywords Colt and 1911 produces a lot of useful hits. But changing to use 635 in place of 1911 gives no sensible hits.
Searches can be filtered using attributes such as calibre, for example some of the Colt 1911s come up as .455 calibre and some are in 9mm.
From what I've seen, the search engine finds keywords anywhere in an object's records. That said "submachine gun" does work great as a search term, because it won't necessarily find machine carbines or PDWs.
The search engine is also somewhat big ridden at the moment. It looks as though it can be trusted to find all Colts and then filter by calibre. Note that 9mm, 9 mm and 9 x 19 are all used to label 9 x 19 calibre arms.
But does it take sten mags?
Tarkov has a 9mm PCC, the STM-9, from the Russian Soyuz-TM
"The MFR" is an fitting name for a gun 😂
maybe it's just my monitor but i was certain that was an Orange tip not pink.
So , I finally got an acronym gun name correct after guessing SCAR meant Shit Colored Assault Rifle
Who knew Jonathan spoke dolphin!
Pistol caliber carbines have advantages in the home defense role as you would be throwing much less energetic projectiles through walls and such especially after they went through your target.
I think I also read that there was a time when some US law enforcement agencies did not allow all of their officers to deploy with full power ARs but preferred them to use pistol calibre carbines.
Hence some of these 9mm M.F.R.s were sold for law enforcement use.
@@derekp2674
Everyone can benefit from accuracy enhanced pistols.