When the Crimean War Went Full FUBAR - European History - Extra History
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- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2023
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Aristocratic Generals, miscommunication, and battlefield logistics brewed a disaster for those brave soldiers in The Light Brigade. Those who charge through cannon and fire, against all odds to capture Russian cannons on the battlefield.
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Double it and give it to the next person
*nonsensical
And almost a century later the British infantry would perfectly describe a situation like this "Lions led by donkeys".
So apparently this war was the modern origin/inspiration to the original quote. It was mentioned in a book in 1854 about how the "Scots Greys" and the British army were lions led by donkeys. It's even used by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels who said that of the forces at Sevestopol (referring to the forces that failed to take the city so most likely the Coalition forces.)
@@ajohnymous5699 I always thought the quote had its origin in WW1.
Lions led by donkeys is a myth that started in the 60s with the anti-war anti-natiknal service movement. A great deal of work is being done currently to reassess ww1 and the biggest takeaway is that 'lions led by donkeys' just isn't true.
Lions led by donkeys is a myth, British officer casualties were higher
@@ZechsMerquise195Specifically post-WW1. The Prime Minister at that time wanted to shift negative public opinions towards the generals instead of himself. While there was already a sentiment like that, said PM encouraged it even more. The British Army officers at that time were not prepared for a war like WW1, but that was the same for every other officers. They had to adapt, innovate, emulate what others did. Modern historians have now viewed most officers more as men put into massive operations never before seen yet trying their best to win and preserve their men lives rather than donkeys. In fact, the more seemingly successful units like Canadians and Australians did draw a lot from the already present forces. A city-born English unit was also as likely to achieve victories in storming + holding trenches as the Canadians and Australians according to statistics, but this was always ignored due to both politics and the numbers of individual attacks at the time.
"This is magnificent but this is nothing what war is about..." said French general Bosquet while witnessing the scene (but still sending some cavalrymen to relief his allies)
One of the reasons the Royal Navy has historically been esteemed over the British Army (other than the obvious priorities of an island nation with a far flung empire) is that the RN's officer cadre was (and even more so now) a meritocracy. You couldn't buy your way in or up the ranks. Prince or pauper everyone starts as a midshipman and proceeds from there skipping no rung on the ladder to whatever rank they hold on retiring from their final commission.
I’m glad you brought this up! It’s a yes and no to the meritocracy of the RN because in the early 1800s and before there definitely was the same nepotism and corruption found in the Army. While all officers would start as a midshipman, those with connections and wrath would often have their sons put on the lists of a ship without them actually going out to sea, thus fulfilling the required time before being able to take the lieutenants exam, which was often rigged heavily (I believe that Nelson’s Uncle was one of his examiners). Following lieutenant promotion was almost strictly based on your connections, Nelson became a captain so quickly because his uncle was the comptroller of the Navy who worked closely with the First Lord of the Admiralty. This being said there certainly was much meritocracy in the lower ranks as many middle class people would join the Navy as the army was typically seen as the more prestigious and would be filled up by more traditional aristocrats. Additionally it wasn’t unheard of for lower ranking enlisted to rise quite high up the ranks in the Navy, some becoming midshipmen or lieutenants (in rare occasions) or more typically becoming petty and warrant officers such as the sailing master or master at arms.
Anyways, long story short the Royal Navy was much more of a mix of meritocracy and nepotism, while not strictly being one or the other! Thanks for reading of you have! Have a good day!
-sincerely,
Some poor student writing a thesis on the RN in the age of sail
@@catdenvonwein2723this is awesome, can u elaborate more?
I think that one thing that bears emphasising is that "buying promotion" wasn't bribery or a corrupt practice, but the legitimate legal way one gained a commission and got promoted in the British Army. Whilst it was possible to gain a commission without purchase through merit, and be promoted for free, this was very uncommon outside of war time.
@@greencoatt Basically when a Navy man had a son he'd ask a friend or someone who owed him a solid to put his sons name on a ships manifest as a member of the crew, probably as a servant. As a man needed time in grade as a midshipman (3 years), plus 3 years as a volunteer, officers servant, or able seaman to learn his craft as a naval officer before you could take the Lieutenants exam. So men who had connections could jump the line and only do 3 years of sea duty before taking the exam.
Actually for the navy it wasn’t dissimilar to the army, as to purchase a commission you had to do exams, serve a certain amount of years and be the most senior of your rank of you wished to purchase a commission to the next rank (in their own regiment). The main reason the navy was favoured was mostly due to Victorian ideas coming out of the napoleonic wars and looking at events like Peterloo where a land army was seen as a tool of oppression, whilst the navy was seen as a tool of freedom, which can be seen as the British never had a particularly strong standing army in the UK
It's especially grim to note that one of the guys who caught the worst blame afterwards, Capt Nolan, was not only the lowest-ranking person in the Chain of Command that day, but was the only one to die for his mistake.
Literally killed trying to wave off the charge & save the commanders who despised him.
He couldve had the orders clarified
@@frog6581 Absolutely. Capt Nolan definitely bears some responsibility for not swallowing his contempt for Lucan & Cardigan and making the order clearer. But as the lowest ranking man there, his was lowest level of responsibility.
And he answered with his life.
I mean, as I see it he was one of the worst offenders. Not only he didn't clarify the order but his prideful demeanour and arrogance when answering the two requests by two different higher ranking officers made sure that no further attempts to clarify the orders were made and utimatelly led to the charge. Lucan and Cardigan received the order, asked to have it cleared when it seemed absurd, were treated with contempt by a lower officer who not only did not clarify them but reinforced the mistake by gesturing to the only target in sight, which was the wrong one, and followed their command. I see no scenarion in which Nolan isn't the absolute worst offender in this situation, followed by Raglan and only then the two officers who could not have guessed about an enemy position they were never aware of.
I mean, it was his refusal to clarify that caused this.
Thaaaat's the Brits for you. If you saved them from their own mistakes? How dare you make them look stupid by stepping in? Now you've just made the blame fall on your shoulders instead of theirs because they can use roundabout logic to go " WELL IF THEY DIDN'T INTERVENE I COULD HA- "
The worst sort of enemy. Not scared to die. Terrifying.
Yeah, comparing to current NATO shaking in fear and not even shooting down russian missiles flying into Poland or over Romania. Ukraine is the only country with balls.
@@KasumiRINAits not fear, it's strategically beneficial to not risk war by shooting missiles. Not like Ukraine had any choice
@@KasumiRINAWell, the reason why it’s much more risky to do that nowadays is cuz of something called the Nuclear bomb. The possible risk of escalation literally could result in Europe and the world being wiped out in nuclear hellfire, so it’s going to be a lot more difficult to convince the military and governments to take risky moves like that.
Such is the complex nature of 21st century politics and warfare…
@@openthinker6562 if you think Russia has the budget to recharge their nuclear warheads with a pre-war defense budget equivalent to what France spent to maintain their 300 nuclear warheads (much less maintain the entire nuclear triad, launch vehicles, and launch platforms)...
Then I got the eiffel tower to sell you.
@@prfwrx2497is that a gamble you’re personally willing to make? would you win that game of nuclear chicken?
The lesson from Kipling is still valid today. Politicians are only too happy to reap the rewards of loudly shouting 'support the troops' but nowhere to be found when it comes to actually supporting them.
I'm surprised you didn't also mention Iron Maiden's 'The Trooper' which is very much told from the point of view from one of the Light Brigade in that fateful charge.... which in turn presents this whole event to yet another generation.
Agreed.
god that reminds me of my childhood.
I'm thrilled that you noted the charge of the Chasseurs de Afrique and the charge of the Heavy brigade.
One thing to note The Horses were the worst Losses of the Charge the Light section was effectively turned in to foot soldier for a long time
The poem about the light brigade will always be the first thing that pops to mind for me with this war 😟
Not the Trooper? How many people even read the poem when Iron Maiden exist.
@@KasumiRINA Anyone who went to school in the UK at least
@@KasumiRINAI actually knew about the poem before I even listened to Iron Maiden
I learned about the poem in primary school. A citizen in a commonwealth nation.
You'll take my life, but I'll take yours too
You'll fire your musket, but I'll run you through
So when you're waiting for the next attack
You'd better stand, there's no turning back!
The bugle sounds, the charge begins
But on this battlefield, no one wins
The smell of acrid smoke and horse's breath
As I plunge on into certain death
a man of culture!
Yup. The one disappointment about the video was still no Eddie :(
I love Iron Maiden.
What a goddamn disgrace. Those men charged into hell, on bad orders, came out alive and scarred, and then got left in the dirt to rot. Those men deserved so much more for their dedication. The vanity of Victorian England knows no bounds, it seems, so long as something makes them look good, damned be the consequences.
and at the end of their triumph, the romans discard all that separates them from the enemy
in their defeat, they are no better
still happening today in the uk and usa
And what should society do? Keep pampering them? They were soldiers they fought and lost limbs for us, and in peace what use is to be a soldier? Is it that hard to find a job for those who did not suffer too much? Isn't there any support association, or shelters that can take care of them? Fame only serves those who continue to strive to maintain it, not those who stopped when they gained it.
If you think only Victorian England does that, then you are naive.
Also these calvary units are generally made up of aristocrat soldiers. So if you say the got left in the dirt to rot, then it was the aristocrats who rot.
This incident, along with the debacle of the Siege of Cartagena during the War of Jenkin's Ear (yes, that's its real name), stand out to me as prime examples of personal feuds between commanders leading to the suffering and death of the soldiers under their leadership.
How was that battle the result of personal feuds?
@@dominicguye8058 The battle itself was not, but the personal dislike and strategic disagreements between the army and naval commanders had a lot to do with how ineptly the siege was handled. Both men spent the rest of their lives blaming each other for the disaster, much like here.
@AviRox1154, the War of Jenkin's Ears doesn't exist. What does exist is the North American Threatre of the War of Austrian Succession...
Talk about taking initiative when confronted by one's ally's folly charge to eternity.
Without the French deciding to support the Light Brigade, losses would have been even greater.
There's also a great movie about this, 'The Charge of the Light Brigade (1968) which is rather faithful to the history of the charge.
You tell me that... I was tasked with watching it for the history subject in school, but found a wrong one, from the interwar period... Completely made up, and the charge alone obly took, like, last ten minutes of the movie
@@witoldtadeusz
Oh, the Erroll Flynn one? The one that led to the adoption of some safety measures because of the horses and stuntmen who were killed in the filming of the charge?
@@witoldtadeuszthats the 1930 one, it also resulted in over 25 horses being put down because the director used trip wires on the horses which resulted in errol flyn assulting him on set due to the animal cruelty.
I personally prefer the account of the Crimean War by Sir Harry Flashman. The fictional story is a fascinating look at British politics and society of that era. Worth the read!
"Wellington never lost a gun!"
@@tessat338 Well subtle trolling goes too far...
To say that the Charge of the Light Brigade was FUBAR would be like saying magma is a little too hot.
That was the mother of all massacres that isn't Pickett's Charge.
WWI. English at the Battle of the Somme and the Italian and Austro-Hungarian Empire in the 12 Battle of Izonso : just hold my beer.
@@alpharius4434I was gonna say, I was kinda shocked by how few casualties they took for how hard they hyped it up, 110 dead out of 600 light cavalry just charging directly into 50 cannons through a narrow valley? I would have expected like 3-400 at least.
@@connorbranscombe6819 That's still a 50% casualty rate. 25% casualties is usually enough to render a unit unserviceable
@@alpharius4434 Verdun and Gallipoli: (hold my beer, as well)
Also we're talking mother of all massacres, as far as the 19th century is concerned.
@@sean668 Yeah okay? Units suffer 25-50% casualties in warfare all the time, a US unit landing on DDay took 93% losses and remained combat effective.
Another unsung hero of the Light Brigade was Major George Mayow, who led the Brigade after Cardigan abandoned them. His leadership was a big reason any got out alive at all.
1. I LOVE how commanders used Napoleonic Wars tactics with RIFLES.
2. My 6yo daughter, Maddie, loves your views & says your horses are "cute".
Sadly this happened in every war btw 1845 and 1870, think about the frightening losses in ACW
Let's see
Raglan was an incompetent, who's only recommendation was that he served under Wellington at Waterloo
Cardigan was a certifiable lunatic, who was saved from being locked up somewhere because he was a peer of the realm, and RICH. This made him "eccentric", rather than a mental case
Lucan was not a lot better
Nolan was a cavalry FANATIC, who REALLY WANTED to be in a "hell-for-leather" charge against an enemy. He even wrote a book about it
Read "The Reason Why", by Cecil Woodham-Smith
Riding to death immortality and one of the best songs Iron Maden ever made.
This series is so interesting. I love this show so much
Anyone else hearing the opening riff to Iron Maiden’s The Trooper in their head as they watch this or is it just me?
I adore this channel you and your team always entertain me with how you explain the event/war and the animation is great keep up the good work :)
YOU'LL FIRE YOUR MUSKET BUT I'LL RUN YOU THROUGH 🎶
Keep up the good work. I have been watching for years and I hope this channel never falls into obsurity.
Miscommunication in the conveyance and execution of orders can still be dire today, even with near-instantaneous means of telecommunications. This instance was a famous example of the potential for miscommunication-induced utter chaos during times where people had to resort to couriers.
You'll take my life, but I'll take yours too
You'll fire your musket, but I'll run you through
When i learned this in school it was the poem only without context beyond “Crimean War, 1854”, so i didn’t even know what a “Light Brigade” was. I thought maybe they carried lanterns 😅
8:43 is the reason Veteran’s Affairs is so important. That it is poorly managed is not a reason to disband or shrink it, but to reform it.
I see no reference to Iron Maiden here, especially since they also did the song "The Trooper".
When you try to defend your reputation then die from getting the shits 💀
As we know, the Charge of the Light Brigade was actually caused by Harry Flashman.
Watching this movie
It is a shame such a celebrated warhero as Sir Harry Flashman is not acknowleged here.
Thank you for the video.
You'll take my life, but I'll take yours, too!
You'll fire your musket, but I'll run you through!
So when you're waiting for the next attack,
You'd better stand--there's no turning back!
The bugle sounds, the charge begins,
But on this battlefield, no one wins.
The smell of acrid smoke and horses' breath
As I plunge on into certain death.
Yay a mention for the very successful against the odds charge of the Heavy Brigade, Yay. An interesting point about the British army's choice of commanders. From 1845-46 and from 1845-49 the British had fought major wars in the Punjab against the Sikhs. Some parts of these had been mismanaged, by Sir Hugh Gough for example, but other had been very well led. This created jealousy within the home army. As a result almost no Sikh war veteran generals were given commands in the army being sent to Crimea. The only exception I know pf being Sir Colin Campbell. He was given command of the Highland Brigade and we met him at 'The Thin Red Line.'
So recent veterans ignored and commands of the army plus its divisions given to green officers and ancient dug outs.
Bruv this show made me gain so much brain cells throughout the years so thank you but rlly prob one of the best channels
Most vets are forgotten or only cared for by other vets. Its a sad truth.
If you want to see how this looks like? Watch the charge of Commander Erwin towards the Beast Titan.
iron maiden's the trooper starts to blair
You guys always make my day with these videos!🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤❤❤
Rudyard Kipling, master of the literary diss track.
0:47 "... riding to death and immortality."
Epic.
"Lord Look-on" is quite savage
This channel better live forever
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
'Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!' he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
An excellent book on this subject is “Hell Riders: The True Story of the Charge of the Light Brigade Hardcover” (2004) by Terry Brighton. The book is divided into four sections: 1) The Invasion of the Crimea, 2) The Charge of the Light Brigade, 3) The Last of the Light Brigade, and 4) Investigating the Charge. Sections 3 and 4 are the most interesting. Definitely worth a read!
I always liked to the contrast between the Light Brigade and Taffy3 at Leyte Gulf.
This has been an interesting watch, given Earl Cardigan is supposed to be an ancestor of mine. I know the story, but cheers for covering this in greater detail!
I wonder if the charge of the Rohirrim at Pelennor Fields in "Return of the King" was at least partially inspired by this charge. Seems like exactly the sort of thing Tolkien would have drawn from.
The neat thing is that you have a similar moment during the Second World War in an event called the Battle Off Samar.
A small group of destroyers and destroyer escorts charge a Japanese fleet, outnumbered and outmatched, in order to let the escort carriers escape. All of this happened on the anniversary of the Light Brigade's Charge while someone was on the radio trying to call for the brave few who threw themselves against all odds.
"Where is, repeat, where is Task Force Thirty Four? The world wonders."
Difference of situation there, as I'm sure you know, is that the destroyers had to do their change in order to achieve the objective of protecting the carriers; the Light Brigade was thrown into the fire in error.
@@eldorados_lost_searcher
The Battle Off Samar was also a blunder as well.
Admiral Hallsey decided to leave this meager force behind so he could go carrier hunting. As it turns out, the Japanese pulled him out of position so that they could slip their fleet past Hallsey to interrupt the naval landings of the Phillipines. Those destroyers were practically the only obstacle standing in front of them.
You'll take my life, but I'll take yours too
You'll fire your musket, but I'll run you through
So when you're waiting for the next attack
You'd better stand, there's no turning back
The bugle sounds, the charge begins
But on this battlefield, no one wins
The smell of acrid smoke and horses' breath
As I plunge on into certain death
My favourite historical events are the ones that send the top 3 cards of my Deck to my Graveyard in order to add 1 Level 4 or lower "Lightsworn" monster from my Deck to my hand.
Als König würde ich sagen, dass dieses Video exquisit ist
And this story was just a painful rerun of the Napoleonic Wars that had seen the same process of bought commissions, bungled brigade level actions and a lack of natural justice for those who made it home, for the generation of British soldiers who went to war before them.
Now that's some 300 Spartanic courage.
As a US Army officer, my captain's course used the Light Brigade as a case study of how to NOT communicate orders.
The Little Rascals was my first introduction to the charge. Thanks Alfalfa 😅
I have a British cavalry Saber from this exact battle.
Interesting that so many survived, given that I had always assumed that the casualties were even worse.
FYI: The 1st Minnesota Infantry Regiment on the Second Day of the Battle of Gettysburg in 1863 suffered 215 dead out of 262 men or a 82% casualty rate. The famous US 7th Cavalry Regiment of George A. Custer suffered 268 dead and 59 wounded out of approximately 700 men at the Battle of the Little Big Horn in 1876, a 45% casualty rate.
*"MY SOLDIERS, RAGE!*
*MY SOLDIERS, SCREAM!*
*MY SOLDIERS, FIGHT!"*
Its is such an interesting story to watch a great vid😊😊
Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
III
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.
There are more verses.
aye, new episode!
2:01 This has been the end of many european cavalrymen throughout history. Glory seeking and saving face, instead of patience and strategy
I have to thank the Flashman letters for my introduction to the Charge of the Light Brigade...tho fictional, it's largely accurate in the portrayal of the characters involvet
You mention Tennyson but not Iron Maiden?
"Death and Immortality"...I like that.
To this day the US Army uses this incident as an example to officers how NOT to issue orders
The opportunities at “80,000 Hours“ seem interesting, but what if I want to have a negative affect on the world? Do you or any of your sponsors have a recommendation?
Any oil company
This is like an argument I have with my dad.
"Dad, I need to find a boxcutter!"
"Look over there!" *gestures vaguely in the direction of the kitchen *
"Where?"
"Right- there, look with your eyes!"
*points in general direction of fridge*
"I don't know what you're pointing at!"
"I-" *sighs *
These people should not be running wars.
There was a basket maker in my town in Dorset Thomas Warr
It turned out he was one one of the light brigade who had reached the Russian guns
He was buried in an unmarked grave.
Twenty years ago a plaque was placed on his grave and the ceremony was attended by 11th Hussars and Kiplings poem was read
Anyone else not learn until this video that the title "Light Brigade" was opposed to "heavy" and not "dark"?
Probably part of the reason it's so storied. It really does call forth images of the soldiers bathed in light, as they charge into their doom.
I am very dissapointed that there isn't a reference to Iron Maiden's the trooper.
now i want to see an allohistory what-if scenario on if the order that led to the Charge was interpreted correctly
You tell me I watched this whole episode without getting a single Iron Maiden refrence?
We all know that the true culprit for the charge is actually private Leeroy Jenkins.
Oh, at the end "charge" is used like "left in thr charge of" very clever Kipling
In strategy games, it is always awful when you mis-click and move a valuable unit into terrible danger. It's weird to see it happening in real life. It would be funny, if it wasn't so grim.
Soldiers coming home to live in disability and poverty has always been how it works, and still is. Its an incredibly messed up system. These vets also are supposed to receive care for their injuries as a result of the war, but often don't even get the basics they need because its not all covered. Not even mentioning the other atrocities involved, but the military needs some serious restructuring
Since it wasn't mentioned in the Video, The Trooper by Iron Maiden is about the charge of the light brigade
Gotta say, as an essential worker during 2020 I also know the feeling of a rich stupid person ordering you to your doom.
I'm guessing you also know what it's like to be praised for your courage and resilience while not being compensated for it at all.
Up the Irons!
I know this has a serious note to it, but whenever I think about this charge, I immediately picture a snarling zombie man in a redcoat carrying a tattered British flag.😂
The poem perfectly describes this 'riding into deaths jaws'
The Trooper by Iron Maiden is all about the Crimean War
4:56 perfect summation
6:31 Chasseurs d'Afrique. There is a painting by Henri Félix Emmanuel Philippoteaux
This has "brother avenge me, avenge me, brother!" Vibes. If you know you know!
I hope you will make a video about the Ottoman soldiers in Balaclava where European historians tarnished their efforts to boost up Light Brigade charge.
Ottomans hold their ground until their last bullets and even in hand to hand combat against 10 to 1 numerical inferiority but then had to abandon their posts in few numbers, holding the Russians back enough time for Allies to assemble.
Note: I don't disrespect the soldiers of Light Brigade, they were brave men who did this charge because of the mistakes of idiots.
@@mr.tobacco1708watch episode 4 of this series, he described it, and also the way they were treated afterwards
My biggest takeaway is the Balaclavas are named after a city
"He withdrew to his private yacht and ate a champagne dinner" omg what
Some British dudes in the Bahamas: Man, we should write a song about this
*Iron Maiden intensifies*
From experience, I can say vague orders from on high are the rule rather than the exception.
Just a shout out to ds9 where I first learned about the light brigade
I imagine modern military commanders are very thankful for the instantaneous communication devices of the modern day. It's such a shame what happened to those poor men in the light brigade, both during the battle and after the war. While I'm not much a fan of the title of this one, thank you for another informative episode.
God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)
That's the best possible interpretation of Nolan's actions. He lined up to join the Charge even though they were pointed the wrong way. We don't know why Nolan rode ahead, but that was the wrong thing to do if he wanted to redirect the Charge - he should have rode immediately to Cardigan.
It was so weird to hear Tim McGraw recite the charge of the light brigade in the blindside while watch football
you may find an exposition of Lucans descendant and his disapearance in the last centuary amusing as an aside