Sorry for taking so long to respond to this, I don't get notified of new comments very well and comments that aren't on my harem video get buried easily. The short version is that there are loads of inconsistencies with the dub of the original Steins;Gate (which should have been a template for how to dub 0) such as the constantly reversing name order (Rintaro Okabe/Okabe Rintaro) and another one is the conspicuous way in which certain character's catchphrases are butchered - TUTURU and Faris' "nyan" suffix come to mind here. There's also the fact that different people wrote the first two episodes and the remainder of the series - the discrepancy is obvious and it results in a very messy dub, especially on a dialogue level. Then there's the fact that they couldn't even keep the voice cast consistent for the entirety of the series, swapping out Mayuri from episode 14 onward. I understand it was kind of unavoidable due to Ashly Burch's prior commitments, and is likely something that will be fixed in the home video release of the series, but seeing as that is yet to happen, I have to judge the dub as it is now; not how good it could be. The fact of the matter is I released this video when about 4 episodes were out, and the seams were yet to appear as obviously as they did later on. It's a competent dub - something that would have even been considered excellent once upon a time given changing standards - but it very much lives in the shadow of its older brother in the impeccable Steins;Gate dub, and no matter how much they scrub it up for the home video release (which, who the hell knows when that's coming out?) I think based on its very foundation, Steins;Gate 0's dub always will be.
I have to agree with you honestly,I found the Dub to be phenomenal. I've played the Visual Novels and I think the dub is doing a fine job of representing the games.
Same here, though admittedly I watched the series first, then played both VNs, now watching 0, so I was probably influenced a bit by doing it in that order.
Not sure why but there's something that makes me really enjoy how you structured and present this discussion video. been watching a few already and they have me hooked as well got me thinking on a few things I've never really thought of like the whole dubbing thing and how they handled certain scenes like in black lagoon n such. Subbed!
I really dislike Leskinin's voice in the dub. But on the flipside, Daru's voice in the sub is much more trash. Steins;Gate and Steins;Gate 0 both have hits and misses in both versions. If you watched the Japanese dub of the original, you got the best Engrish in all of anime and one of the most memeable lines ever, but if you watched the English dub, you got a fucking poem about Ruka being a trap, which not only was impeccably voice acted, but is also one of the most hilarious scenes in all of anime. I think that for all of the impossible to workaround translation differences, Steins;Gate and Steins;Gate 0's English dubs handled both very well, and should be commended for its effort instead of panned by weeaboos cuz they don't like Ashly Burch's voice as Mayuri. I don't like Daru's voice in the sub. That doesn't mean that the Japanese dub is bad.
That's a pretty even-handed way to look at it. It's not often that either one will be entirely better than the other these days, so we shouldn't act like it is. I try to take the middle path on the entire issue. And you make a very important distinction between "I don't like X" and "X is bad."
I really love Mayuri's dub voice. She sounds light and delicate and fairy like but also has the vocal pitch and cadence of a real, actual English speaker. And with a very very slight hint of country bumpkin. Yes she sounds a bit more sarcastic and less childish, but I prefer that to sounding like a generic kawaii anime chick.
In response to how English dubs could localize Maho translating Leskinen's English into Japanese... They could do it by making zero attempt to localize! As silly as it sounds, consider the anime-adaption of the manga, Monster. In that adaption, they are living in Germany - and everyone is speaking Japanese. The main character runs into an English-speaking couple, who speak no German at all.... to which the main character accommodates them by responding to them.... in Japanese. All three languages are in Japanese, even though it's implied that German or English are truly being spoken :)
It's an incredibly delicate balance to strike, and the viewer has to extend some form of charity. However, when you have shows like Everything Becomes F - where two Japanese actors have a 5 minute scene of them both speaking total English - it's difficult not to come down hard on some of the weaker attempts. This is one of those things that should be evaluated on a case by case basis, I think.
I'd argue one thing the dub could have done to keep the "Lintahlo" effect without making it seem like Leskinin can't pronounce R's when he hears them is to have him say "rin-TAR-o" instead of the proper Japanese inflection, but considering he's the only one who ever calls him Rintaro, it might just come across as something akin to the actors saying "sa-su-ke" rather than "sas-ke." But alas, I agree with your assessment from four years ago. The dub suffers from having an inconsistent writing team. They really need to have some kind of translation bible for the Sci;ADV series, because the stylistic inconsistencies are present in the VN translations as well. Things like using the "Hack" Woolseyism instead of "Super-Hacka" didn't carry over to Steins;Gate 0, and it's a shame because the anime has no TIPS screen to tell us that "Super-Hacka" means "a skilled hacker that doesn't actually exist." "Hack," of course, is known to mean "an unskilled person." So while the meaning is different, the effect is the same because Okabe is clearly using it because it sounds cool, and Daru is offended because it belittles his skills. Worse still, the dub suffers from an egregious mistranslation that they should have been able to spot due to the context. In the sub, Okabe tells Amadeus the reason he called Kurisu "Christina" is because he "couldn't say her name normally." In the dub, he says it was because "he wasn't sure how to pronounce her name." Ordinarily, this would be a fine translation, except they show Amadeus getting embarrassed by this. Why? Because the context is clear that the *reason* he "couldn't say her name normally" was because he had a crush on her. Side note: The blu-ray did *not* have Ashly Burch redub Mayuri's dialogue. It didn't even have Megan Shipman redubbing Ashly's lines.
Given the last bit of your comment there, it seems that the initial promise of what they used to call Broadcast Dubs has been broken, and that there is no fixing stuff for the home video release - meaning shows are forever languishing with sloppy dubs. What an utter shame. Thank you for bringing this to my attention and for your thoughtful comment. EDIT: I distinctly remember the Chaos;Child dub having a bit where the main character was voiced by a different actor in the dub as a vocal pick-up. I wonder if that ever got fixed...
That's true, but if the English VA said it the Japanese way that would just sound totally off. A very important part of dubs is having a cohesive cast - one that sounds like they belong together and co-exist in the same world. If a character arbitrarily inflected his Ls and Rs like a Japanese person (especially when he's one of the only non-Japanese in the show) that would just sound off.
Leskinen is part Finnish. He could have been saying Rintaro with a Finnish accent and speak Finnish in the conference and it would have all made sense. The funimation dub sucks. Period.
I know that Leskinen is a Finnish name but is there any evidence to suggest that he even speaks the language? Having played the visual novel - admittedly a long time ago now - I don't remember there being any reference to it whatsoever. Besides which, even if he did, Maho doesn't, so having her translate Finnish would be inaccurate to the source material - something the dub would then be (rightly) criticized for. It seems to me based on some of the negative responses I saw to this scene that FUNimation were damned either way, but I'm glad they made the decision they did. Also, I personally can't stand having accents in dubs. While I don't want to discredit the work of accent coaches, it NEVER sounds genuine and I'd rather they didn't bother. If an actor doesn't have that accent, either don't cast them or don't give the character an accent. Finally, the dub really doesn't suck. You could correctly point out plenty of its failings but I'm not interested in throwing the baby out with the bath water.
That's a funny bit of trivia! Seems to me there's no denying Leskinen's Finnish influence and heritage, and it has done from the beginning, but there's also no reason to believe he himself is a first generation immigrant or anything. Surnames transcend generations, and there are people living all over the world with surnames that hearken back to countries they don't live in. So yeah, I agree.
Or you can just watch the show in its original dub. Problem solved. No confusion anymore. No more misinformation. Original dub watchers wont need to get angry anymore on english dub watchers who dont get stuff or spread misinformation. Everyone would be on the same wavelenght. There wont be 2 versions anymore. There wont be 2 fanbases clashing against each other anymore. There will be only one original version everyone would be watching. That would be for the best.
I'd rather diversify the ways in which a piece of media can be enjoyed and risk some in-fighting among fans than only have one monolithic way you *must* consume it. Choice as a consumer is almost always the preferable outcome. The way you're framing this is kind of bizarre though; dubs don't need to not exist for people to not get mad at each other, people can just develop nuanced perspectives on the issue. So no, I disagree that it would be for the best.
Each character is delivered differently. Okabe talks in older language. Mayuri seems a drunk smartass Kurisu's tsundere's heart's gone Moeka fits somewhat but all her script is still wrong especially ep12,it's ruined. Rukako is not all cutesy. Suzuha's a tomboy and talks rude? Sometimes characters spoil what comes next (iirc end of ep20) Plus all the issues in the script you already said(there's more but a paper is not enough) It's a good dub that disregards the source material
I suppose that really brings in to question how closely an adaptation should follow the source material. I think that there could just as easily be someone who thinks that the characters have changed from visual novel to anime - personally I think that Suzuha comes across as way less aggressive at the start of 0's anime as she was in the visual novel when she was trying to convince Okabe to use the time machine. Dubs are adaptation just like visual novel to anime as far as I'm concerned. Your complaints are kind of vague so I don't fully understand them, but of course you're entitled to feel that way. To me, I feel like it was a valiant - and successful - effort to bring an absurdly Japanese show to a Western audience. I don't feel like the source material was disregarded, so much as it was adapted. I'll direct you to two things I said in my video that I think are important to consider when looking at dubs: -"Sure, it’d be great if we could get a one to one translation of every joke and eccentricity of the source material" -"all while faithfully representing the **intent** of the original script" I think that it's only fair to give some breathing room when adapting Japanese to English as much as from manga to anime. If you think that Steins;Gate's dub was given an inch and took a mile, that's totally fair. I just don't agree, really.
i can't argue on personal preferences, but there are key elements that are badly portrayed, to the extreme and even the *intent* ends up different. of course, if my arguments seem vague to you, all i can say is that we have a different understanding of what makes steins gate what it is. moeka's "i'm sorry" in ep°12 makes me throw up, and it's only one thing out of many. about zero, it has got a different pace and things are adapted in a different order, there are some things that are skipped, just like it happened on the first anime. but, the things that are adapted are quite faithful and so are the characters. note that i played both vn's in original japanese without translations. i played a bit of the first vn's official english with a friend, and the script wasn't particularly good either
I feel same about Kurisu, the voice just feels too submissive and girly, considering how it is almost opposite of her character. The english Dub did her voice perfectly imo.
Regarding the point I made at 6:50 - it didn't.
Why do you say this?
Sorry for taking so long to respond to this, I don't get notified of new comments very well and comments that aren't on my harem video get buried easily.
The short version is that there are loads of inconsistencies with the dub of the original Steins;Gate (which should have been a template for how to dub 0) such as the constantly reversing name order (Rintaro Okabe/Okabe Rintaro) and another one is the conspicuous way in which certain character's catchphrases are butchered - TUTURU and Faris' "nyan" suffix come to mind here. There's also the fact that different people wrote the first two episodes and the remainder of the series - the discrepancy is obvious and it results in a very messy dub, especially on a dialogue level.
Then there's the fact that they couldn't even keep the voice cast consistent for the entirety of the series, swapping out Mayuri from episode 14 onward. I understand it was kind of unavoidable due to Ashly Burch's prior commitments, and is likely something that will be fixed in the home video release of the series, but seeing as that is yet to happen, I have to judge the dub as it is now; not how good it could be.
The fact of the matter is I released this video when about 4 episodes were out, and the seams were yet to appear as obviously as they did later on. It's a competent dub - something that would have even been considered excellent once upon a time given changing standards - but it very much lives in the shadow of its older brother in the impeccable Steins;Gate dub, and no matter how much they scrub it up for the home video release (which, who the hell knows when that's coming out?) I think based on its very foundation, Steins;Gate 0's dub always will be.
Funimation actually made the meme lord leskinen say the "where are the Japanese shaman girls" line from the vn so 10/10
Leskinen was a stand out for me early on, and if they keep treating him the way they have been, I can't wait for some of the later scenes with him.
Tfw SG0 dub is better than SG0 sub
So I said
We should come soon
Holy cow
Nice!
@@misuzu1flv629 Hahahahaha!
okok
I have to agree with you honestly,I found the Dub to be phenomenal. I've played the Visual Novels and I think the dub is doing a fine job of representing the games.
Same here, though admittedly I watched the series first, then played both VNs, now watching 0, so I was probably influenced a bit by doing it in that order.
Leskinen: "Hurry up"
Leskinen: "Fire!"
he sounds so dead....
HolyCow!So I said we should come soon
Cause he didn't saw the japanese shaman girls.
Not sure why but there's something that makes me really enjoy how you structured and present this discussion video. been watching a few already and they have me hooked as well got me thinking on a few things I've never really thought of like the whole dubbing thing and how they handled certain scenes like in black lagoon n such. Subbed!
Thanks for saying so. I'm glad you like what I've already got and are looking forward to what's yet to come.
I have but one question...
WHERE ARE JAPANESE SHAMAN GIRLS LINTAHLO?
"Steins;Gate is one of the most overwhelmingly Japanese anime I've ever seen", the predecessor Chaos;Head (at least the VN) has it beat by a
I really dislike Leskinin's voice in the dub. But on the flipside, Daru's voice in the sub is much more trash.
Steins;Gate and Steins;Gate 0 both have hits and misses in both versions. If you watched the Japanese dub of the original, you got the best Engrish in all of anime and one of the most memeable lines ever, but if you watched the English dub, you got a fucking poem about Ruka being a trap, which not only was impeccably voice acted, but is also one of the most hilarious scenes in all of anime.
I think that for all of the impossible to workaround translation differences, Steins;Gate and Steins;Gate 0's English dubs handled both very well, and should be commended for its effort instead of panned by weeaboos cuz they don't like Ashly Burch's voice as Mayuri. I don't like Daru's voice in the sub. That doesn't mean that the Japanese dub is bad.
That's a pretty even-handed way to look at it. It's not often that either one will be entirely better than the other these days, so we shouldn't act like it is. I try to take the middle path on the entire issue.
And you make a very important distinction between "I don't like X" and "X is bad."
I really love Mayuri's dub voice. She sounds light and delicate and fairy like but also has the vocal pitch and cadence of a real, actual English speaker. And with a very very slight hint of country bumpkin. Yes she sounds a bit more sarcastic and less childish, but I prefer that to sounding like a generic kawaii anime chick.
Loved the sub when I first watch Steins;Gate, but after re-watching it on dub. I personally enjoy it much more that I continued Steins;Gate 0 on dub.
In response to how English dubs could localize Maho translating Leskinen's English into Japanese...
They could do it by making zero attempt to localize! As silly as it sounds, consider the anime-adaption of the manga, Monster. In that adaption, they are living in Germany - and everyone is speaking Japanese. The main character runs into an English-speaking couple, who speak no German at all.... to which the main character accommodates them by responding to them.... in Japanese. All three languages are in Japanese, even though it's implied that German or English are truly being spoken :)
It's an incredibly delicate balance to strike, and the viewer has to extend some form of charity.
However, when you have shows like Everything Becomes F - where two Japanese actors have a 5 minute scene of them both speaking total English - it's difficult not to come down hard on some of the weaker attempts. This is one of those things that should be evaluated on a case by case basis, I think.
**Japnese shaman girl**
-leskinen
i thought i watch gigguk video or i am....
Kanade Tachibana yeah he sounds like Gigguk
Where? Japanese shaman girl wa doko ni irundai, lintalho?
I'd argue one thing the dub could have done to keep the "Lintahlo" effect without making it seem like Leskinin can't pronounce R's when he hears them is to have him say "rin-TAR-o" instead of the proper Japanese inflection, but considering he's the only one who ever calls him Rintaro, it might just come across as something akin to the actors saying "sa-su-ke" rather than "sas-ke."
But alas, I agree with your assessment from four years ago. The dub suffers from having an inconsistent writing team. They really need to have some kind of translation bible for the Sci;ADV series, because the stylistic inconsistencies are present in the VN translations as well. Things like using the "Hack" Woolseyism instead of "Super-Hacka" didn't carry over to Steins;Gate 0, and it's a shame because the anime has no TIPS screen to tell us that "Super-Hacka" means "a skilled hacker that doesn't actually exist." "Hack," of course, is known to mean "an unskilled person." So while the meaning is different, the effect is the same because Okabe is clearly using it because it sounds cool, and Daru is offended because it belittles his skills.
Worse still, the dub suffers from an egregious mistranslation that they should have been able to spot due to the context. In the sub, Okabe tells Amadeus the reason he called Kurisu "Christina" is because he "couldn't say her name normally." In the dub, he says it was because "he wasn't sure how to pronounce her name." Ordinarily, this would be a fine translation, except they show Amadeus getting embarrassed by this. Why? Because the context is clear that the *reason* he "couldn't say her name normally" was because he had a crush on her.
Side note: The blu-ray did *not* have Ashly Burch redub Mayuri's dialogue. It didn't even have Megan Shipman redubbing Ashly's lines.
Given the last bit of your comment there, it seems that the initial promise of what they used to call Broadcast Dubs has been broken, and that there is no fixing stuff for the home video release - meaning shows are forever languishing with sloppy dubs.
What an utter shame. Thank you for bringing this to my attention and for your thoughtful comment.
EDIT: I distinctly remember the Chaos;Child dub having a bit where the main character was voiced by a different actor in the dub as a vocal pick-up. I wonder if that ever got fixed...
seeing how its not strictly a ri or li sound but somewhere in the middle someone could've just told the va to say it the japanese way
That's true, but if the English VA said it the Japanese way that would just sound totally off. A very important part of dubs is having a cohesive cast - one that sounds like they belong together and co-exist in the same world.
If a character arbitrarily inflected his Ls and Rs like a Japanese person (especially when he's one of the only non-Japanese in the show) that would just sound off.
Leskinen is part Finnish. He could have been saying Rintaro with a Finnish accent and speak Finnish in the conference and it would have all made sense. The funimation dub sucks. Period.
I know that Leskinen is a Finnish name but is there any evidence to suggest that he even speaks the language? Having played the visual novel - admittedly a long time ago now - I don't remember there being any reference to it whatsoever. Besides which, even if he did, Maho doesn't, so having her translate Finnish would be inaccurate to the source material - something the dub would then be (rightly) criticized for.
It seems to me based on some of the negative responses I saw to this scene that FUNimation were damned either way, but I'm glad they made the decision they did.
Also, I personally can't stand having accents in dubs. While I don't want to discredit the work of accent coaches, it NEVER sounds genuine and I'd rather they didn't bother. If an actor doesn't have that accent, either don't cast them or don't give the character an accent.
Finally, the dub really doesn't suck. You could correctly point out plenty of its failings but I'm not interested in throwing the baby out with the bath water.
That's a funny bit of trivia! Seems to me there's no denying Leskinen's Finnish influence and heritage, and it has done from the beginning, but there's also no reason to believe he himself is a first generation immigrant or anything. Surnames transcend generations, and there are people living all over the world with surnames that hearken back to countries they don't live in.
So yeah, I agree.
It would be more interesting in the Amadeus presentation part if Leskinen speaks Finnish and Maho translates them to English in the dub
Or you can just watch the show in its original dub. Problem solved. No confusion anymore. No more misinformation. Original dub watchers wont need to get angry anymore on english dub watchers who dont get stuff or spread misinformation. Everyone would be on the same wavelenght. There wont be 2 versions anymore. There wont be 2 fanbases clashing against each other anymore. There will be only one original version everyone would be watching. That would be for the best.
I'd rather diversify the ways in which a piece of media can be enjoyed and risk some in-fighting among fans than only have one monolithic way you *must* consume it. Choice as a consumer is almost always the preferable outcome. The way you're framing this is kind of bizarre though; dubs don't need to not exist for people to not get mad at each other, people can just develop nuanced perspectives on the issue.
So no, I disagree that it would be for the best.
Gross, Monica Rial.
Plot Twist:He is Donald Trump's cousin
thank god i understand japanese, the dub ruined steins gate and other works
I don't know what to tell you other than the fact I think you're wrong.
Each character is delivered differently.
Okabe talks in older language.
Mayuri seems a drunk smartass
Kurisu's tsundere's heart's gone
Moeka fits somewhat but all her script is still wrong especially ep12,it's ruined.
Rukako is not all cutesy.
Suzuha's a tomboy and talks rude?
Sometimes characters spoil what comes next (iirc end of ep20)
Plus all the issues in the script you already said(there's more but a paper is not enough)
It's a good dub that disregards the source material
I suppose that really brings in to question how closely an adaptation should follow the source material. I think that there could just as easily be someone who thinks that the characters have changed from visual novel to anime - personally I think that Suzuha comes across as way less aggressive at the start of 0's anime as she was in the visual novel when she was trying to convince Okabe to use the time machine. Dubs are adaptation just like visual novel to anime as far as I'm concerned.
Your complaints are kind of vague so I don't fully understand them, but of course you're entitled to feel that way. To me, I feel like it was a valiant - and successful - effort to bring an absurdly Japanese show to a Western audience. I don't feel like the source material was disregarded, so much as it was adapted. I'll direct you to two things I said in my video that I think are important to consider when looking at dubs:
-"Sure, it’d be great if we could get a one to one translation of every joke and
eccentricity of the source material"
-"all while faithfully representing the **intent** of the original script"
I think that it's only fair to give some breathing room when adapting Japanese to English as much as from manga to anime. If you think that Steins;Gate's dub was given an inch and took a mile, that's totally fair. I just don't agree, really.
i can't argue on personal preferences, but there are key elements that are badly portrayed, to the extreme and even the *intent* ends up different. of course, if my arguments seem vague to you, all i can say is that we have a different understanding of what makes steins gate what it is.
moeka's "i'm sorry" in ep°12 makes me throw up, and it's only one thing out of many.
about zero, it has got a different pace and things are adapted in a different order, there are some things that are skipped, just like it happened on the first anime. but, the things that are adapted are quite faithful and so are the characters.
note that i played both vn's in original japanese without translations. i played a bit of the first vn's official english with a friend, and the script wasn't particularly good either
"we have a different understanding of what makes steins gate what it is"
Hey man, that's totally fine. The important thing is that we both love it.
I can’t stand the steins gate sub tho daruos voice pisses me off
I feel same about Kurisu, the voice just feels too submissive and girly, considering how it is almost opposite of her character. The english Dub did her voice perfectly imo.
DUB is for fools or normies.
Someone hasn't watched Golden Boy
Dubs just shouldnt exist ngl