I'll NEVER forgive Astruc for bassicely ignoring Adrien in the finale when he was the HEART of the conflict, for Gabriel's ( inconsistent) motivation, and the worst is that Astruc said on Twitter that he'll treat Adrien even worse from now on. And that REALLY annoys me.
@@ThinkBoxChris I honestly thought it was that joke that Thomas hates blond people (Chloe if you didn't get who the other character i was refering to was), but has funny has that meme is, it doesn't work has an explanation since Rose is blond and she is a miraculous holder, and Felix is blond and he got a redemption arc. So honestly I am not sure what characters he actually cares about, since he seems to flip a switch on which character is worth caring about tbh.
I hate derision so much, lol. They try to make a point for All the chloe defenders, by stating that "Chloe's Trauma doesn't justify her bad behaviour, stop defending her" but then that's the episode that.. tries justifying marinette's bad behaviour with Trauma.. come on, seriously?
At this point I'm just waiting for people making a fanfic about Chloe realizing she's in a show and fighting her creator ASTRUC where it's about a man vs god scenario and she is understanding herself why she acts like that even when she don't wanna act like a bitch Like it's an interesting story
honestly I think its even weird because what was the point? adrien was already not friends with chloe due to the oey aspect and has never appriached fixing that since the falling out side adrien dropping chloe again was a rehash that added nothing. the kim aspect felt weird as well when kim hasnt been into chloe since season1/2. he's had a girlfriend since than and mari has trusted kim with a miraculous..heck master fu did to where they had him scare her with spiders when HE is scared of spiders and didnt even make him that apologetic. was it to make adrien look unhinged and crazy for almost catacysming kim even though adrien paniced about hitti9ng hawkmoth the VILLIAN with the power before? like it just makes previous epsodes weird as hell when mari has strait up combined forced with chloe..she wast alwyas happy about it but girl kiterally joined forced with her to handle kagami. episodes HINGE on chloe being redeemable to some degree where mari had to learn even people who suck are complex and have their issues but CAN change if given the right direction. yet here they have chloe SO bad I don't understand how mari was able to stand up to chloe at all in origins.... like MAYBE its suppoused to point that mari was interested in jokey guys like kim before to try to set up a better basis for secert feelings for chat noir but its just ODD. makes even less sense when the whole point is that mari and adrien reflect eachothers flaws..both of their biggest isses stem from how they handle things and how they handle things are yhe opposite of eachother. Adrien showcases what happens if your TOO forward with your feelings. when you flirt and joke with your feelings and express them all the time(no matter if they are sincere) means that people might not take your feelings that seriously or even when you just expressing it because you ike them anddont expect them to like you back they could still feel pressure and be upset at it. while mari shows what happens if you hold back too much and that being intense without them knowing it isnt better..it just means you wont be called ot and wont realize when your crossing a line of being creepy and how being too shy could stop them and you from REALLY getting to know them. how you cant properly get your feelings across to contrast adrien who is actually better as getting his interest across..while mari often backtracked.
Hey, if they wanted to acknowledge Marinette's stalking, have someone in the show call her out and she'll learn what she's been doing was wrong. You know, some character growth?
@@ThinkBoxChris I liked the finale, for a few reasons and hated it for other I liked the finale, because it was nice to finally see heroes from the specials finally being relevant in some way, it also introduced some foreshadowing that Alya might wield the Black Cat Miraculous at some point, plus there was just Gimmi who was an absolute DELIGHT of animation Then we have the stuff I hated, which is just Gabriel. No further explanation required, and Lila somehow getting the Butterfly Miraculous, like...The fuck? And the wish which still makes no sense.... This finale was just bizarre but it certainly had way more potential than the writers allowed
To me, it's almost as if the writers were unable to break the status quo of the show because they were scared people wouldn't watch it anymore. So, they always go back to square one, and the pacing goes very slowly. It is a shame when you see all the possibilities and stories the show could have told, especially considering the number of characters.
Yes, and they tried to cramp everything in the last season and specifically in the last episode. And now they're even changing the animation. I just wish they were more consistent
Remember, it took seven years to get to the finale. That’s probably enough time to make an independent mascot horror game, a free world game or probably four seasons of an independent web cartoon.
@@ThinkBoxChris Not to mention that Marinette quickly became Gabriel's accomplice for lying to Adrien and everyone else about Gabriel helping Ladybug defeat Trash-moth.
@hdnallstars4471 no that shouldnt be the breaking point because they just got togeather itd feel cheap. Theyd need time apart, but still they should get past that
Another issue derision brings to the table is how Marinette's stalker tendecies are put into a different context. Prior to s5, Marinette did those things for comedic reasons. The writers had stated multiple times that Marinette's behavior and constant failing to get closer to Adrien was for shits n giggles (even though nobody found it funny, it ruined the character for lots of people), only to later reveal that everything was a god damn trauma response. If we pretend that this was planned from the start (which it very obvioulsy wasn't), that means the writers willingly used someone's trauma for unfunny jokes, which is super messed up.
Another problem is that Marinette Dupain-Pain did not have those "traumas" when she was dating Luka, even her relationship with him was more believable, honest and romantic. @@ThinkBoxChris
Historians have noted that Joan of Arc consistently referred to herself as "the maiden" ("la Pucelle" in French), clearly identifying as a woman. Eyewitnesses also described her as very feminine, with her bodyguard Jehan d’Aulon and others commenting on her beauty and shapeliness. Her so-called "male clothing" was actually practical military attire-armor to protect her from arrows and long leather hip-boots to prevent abrasion while riding. Until she joined the army, she wore a dress, as confirmed by two soldiers who escorted her to Chinon to see Charles VII and suggested she adopt a soldier’s outfit for practicality. During the campaigns, Joan returned to wearing a dress whenever possible. However, in prison, she continued to wear her military outfit to safeguard herself; she used the cords on this clothing to lace the boots, trousers, and tunic together into one piece, preventing her guards from undressing her during rape attempts. The bailiff, Jehan Massieu, reported that after Joan was forced by the court to switch to a dress, they maneuvered her into a "relapse into cross-dressing" by taking away the dress and giving her the soldier’s outfit again, leaving her no choice but to wear it. The judge then condemned her to death for this supposed relapse. The notion that Joan of Arc was transgender is a misconception based on the incorrect belief that she consistently wore male clothing as part of a male identity. This is contradicted by her own statements and her persistent use of the term "the maiden" to describe herself.
@rexturbo10 i mean everything can be i dont think we should discount it espically when stuff as warly as the 1930s suggests it. You have to realize that historians remove lgbt stuff from history and we typically find out about it after the fact so much so its a joke and even has a song written about it
@@ThinkBoxChrisWith all respect, while I certainly see where you are coming from, I also think you need to be careful of confirmation bias in your research. Even modern day scholars may have their own agendas and biases. That's why I recommend researching primary sources on top of reading commentary from scholars. I believe we have quite a few peices of writing preserved from Joan of Arc, and from just a quick read over some of her letters, she uses the pronoun of "her", constantly refers to herself as a maid, and furthermore refers to herself as a virgin multiple times. Granted this was a quick read through of some letters. I'm pretty sure there is a lot more of Joan de Arc's writing saved that may contain further relevant information. However, my general point is that when it comes to making strong claims about a historical figure, primary sources should also be a part of the research.
@irynda i understand that, and ill do better but in tjis case i did what i thought was enough based on the evidence i was shown. I looked at several articals and essays on the topic, somone using a certain pronoun in a letter is certsinly a damning statement devoid of context but we also have to think who was it to how far the idea of what trans was or even gender back then. Im not saying there wasnt diversity but its not impossible to assume the catholic state that Europe was at the time didnt really encurage that kind of language even in written form. And given who Joan was she probably didnt have access to a lot texts on the matter, so again i see where you coming from but its not exsactly as cut and dry as they used this pronoun in a letter being sent to someone that might be read by multiple people who could kill her if they saw it. Theres things to consider beyond that you know?
This makes me so glad I stopped halfway in between. I do not like how Felix gets redemption because... he straight up kills everyone and gets redeemed, but Chloe doesn't even come close to being that bad and she's irredeemable.
I don't get why people take that so seriously... He didn't KILL anyone. The fact that he was even able to reverse the effects and bring everyone back strongly implies they weren't dead. Its like putting everyone in stasis or backing them up onto a computer. Yet people say its genocide???
@@lasercraft32 Death has been reversed before in Miraculous Ladybug. And regardless, it doesn't change what he did, he acted like a child throwing a fit. Even Chloe wasn't that bad
I don't think Chloé will get redeemed. Especially since they retconned in a entire origin where. 1. Her mom being abusive doesn't mean shit. 2. She and Sabrina hurt Marinette for shits and giggles. Like hell Astruc literally jokes that she and Audrey will fucking die in a plane crash, I personally think he wants us to hate her like he did since S1.
Reminder that Marinette is lying about Adrien's ABUSER. Which falls squarely into abuse apologism. Therefore her reasons for lying are irrelevant because there is no excuse for abuse apologism. Also it's not about her.
I, and another RUclipsr known as Miraculously Gory, also known as MG for short, both agree that Derision is just so that Thomas has an excuse to make Marinette the victim instead of the stalker she CLEARLY has become.
I remember seeing Derision for the first time and being disgusted at how they were trying to justify her trauma. Even my mom immediately picked on it so quickly. It was a hard episode to finish. The worst part is when I searched on other people's reactions on the episode. They immediately defended Marinette and started hating Chloe and Kim a lot. It was really bizarre for me. So when MG and 2 other youtubers started talking about Derision's bs I was really happy. It felt like my mom and me were the only ones who thought that for a long time.
What make it worse is that Thomas said Chloe's trauma doesn't excuse her bad behavior but yet.... it's fine with Marinette??? Talk about double standard
@@ThinkBoxChris oh yeah! I’m glad they went somewhere, yet that somewhere lead me to more insanity. That being said, glad you’re back MLB wise. I know I’m loving this video when you said Derision is god awful. A true man of truth you are.
I'm so glad you made a video on this season. Like yes, this season started off getting me excited for what's to come with some of its plotlines, just for it to completely crash in the end and lead the buildup to nothing. There was so many good elements that were finally tackled but also fell flat on other elements. It also feels like it took way too long for the show to progress to where it's currently at. The finale also made me really made me not hopeful for season 6, and honestly if the identity reveal doesn't happen in season 6, and Lila's motivations and backstory isn't up to par for the way they've been building her up, I'm going to stop watching.
I got so excited over bunny noir (also because the outfit is good. You're right, the kid needs accent colors) because hey! Chat noir gets a new unification! And it's good! And he uses it effectively! It got my hopes up that maybe they're slowly trying to balance the two heroes, or atleast give Chat more time to shine. And I held out on that stupid hope until the finale, because SURELY Chat Noir would play a massive role in the finale. SURELY. There is NO WAY for him not to be in it. And then the writers found a way and I stopped watching the show ever since (except the Paris special, cause the concept was interesting and i lowkey like it, despite having some issues with it).
14:45 Not just that but her dad is neglectful and corrupt. Both of her parents suck. Melyne still had a good parent in her life. So that’s already an unfair comparison.
Not to mention that people have different coping mechanisms to parental abandonment. And Thomas Astruc had the gall to invalidate the feelings of that particular trauma.
They completely bulldozed Adrien's character after season 3. What happened to him? Like-- you love someone who kisses wax statues and passionately lusts over you? Worst thing, Marinette ALWAYS gets away with her crimes. And in the ending, that happens too. She gets with Adrien. Kagami, Chloe, and Adrien are all just wasted potential. Astruc should've made the whole story focusing on these three more than Marinette. Why? Because children can actually find these few characters *relatable* instead of learning from a character who has no morals and no interesting personality. Tbh I actually loved how Chloe was shown as a flawed teenager because that gave her room to improve, which she did try to do and they executed it so darn well in the season where she first became Queen Bee. But then later on, she becomes "evil" again and Astruc claims that she's irredeemable. Huh, I never thought that a literal minor that had been neglected by her parents, spoiled in an unhealthy way, and was never shown proper parental love from her own mother, is a born villain. Sure, nothing can condone her bad actions like almost killing passengers by misusing her bee miraculous, but does this mean she can't improve? No, of course not.
I agree that those characters are wasted potential but so is Marinette. She's a fictional character. She doesn't have control over how her character is written and never had control. She had the potential to be a better character, but the writers chose to write her the way she is.
@@faragi_dc But if she was written any other way way it automatically wouldn't be Marinette. It would be different character with the same name and maybe design; not the same character. With this logic, all badly written characters are wasted potential, even if they had NO potential to begin with.
As a person with BPD and other mental illnesses something in me alarms me of a person (most likely Thomas Astruc) with with a mental health disorder, because this idealization and black and white thinking isn't normal that he has to have to write this story like this and also his comments you have to think like that (my first impuls with things like that would also be to react like him, but I know that this isn't the right thing and that this thoughts aren't the truth).
Thank you for calling out the puppeteer 2 scene! That scene still actually makes me get chills. The kind where you feel like something is going to burn you! Aka the bad kind. I’m very thankful you aren’t afraid to call out the bullshit in this show!
Have Chat Noir find out about it. Or have Adrien find out about it via Gabriel. After that, Marinette finds out that Adrien is Chat Noir, and she is apprehensive about telling him who she is now because of it.
About the Chloe backtracking thing- there's a rumor that the reason she backtracked was because the episodes where she was honest with ladybug and actually broke down and seemed to be getting better were made while the maker of the show was gone. When he came back he was mad about it because apparently Chloe is based off his childhood bully. So he kind of just made them back track because he didn't want a redemption for her.
I had a childhood bully, but do know that they aren't bad people per se, even with me having BPD. I think he has to have a problem with even worse black and white thinking than I have and shouldn't write anything while not while he doesn't aknowlage all his problems.
being given banger after banger adrien moments was so fucked up of them because it made his absence in the finale feel like being beaten to death by chats baton IM SICK. based on prior seasons i went in with the sad but resigned assumption that he would have nothing to do in the finale but then we were treated to actually insane amounts of character development for adrien that treated him like the secondary lead HE ALWAYS WAS SAID TO HAVE BEEN. and it genuinely gave me hope the show was working up to having him actually contribute to the defeat of hawkmoth in a meaningful way. i thought we would get TEARS. i wanted him to see gabe and show us the climax of all that pent up rage and honestly if they had kept the one use abilities it would’ve gone crazy because imagine chat seeing who hawkmoth had been this whole time and absolutely fucking losing it. just wailing on gabe in a blind rage and even going so far as to cataclysm him again. and then timing out mid beating but still. going. HELLOOOOOOOO. we could even have gotten the whole power up thing when mari combines the 2 if adrien is out of commission after that (either sentimonster controlled or just straight up catatonic (no pun intended)) and we could’ve just gotten the explanation of “oh yeah the timeout is cancelled out when you have the literal 2 halves of the god of everything fused together” so she could’ve kept spamming her ults and it would’ve honestly made more sense than them suddenly developing adult brains at the age of 15 or whatever. like their prefrontal cortexes are still mushy as hell idgaf what they’re saying about growing up.
like all of his internal conflict where he regretted cataclysming monarch bc he’s “still a person” combined w his restraint w damacles even after all he went through was based on logic and empathy and his strong moral compass. but i really do think the (hypothetical) moment he sees monarch detransform into gabe he would cease to see him as a person deserving of his empathy and restraint. at least at the time. like the culmination of all gabe had done to him as a son and chat as a hero and what they had both done to mari and ladybug as well i don’t think based on what we’ve seen more recently he would ever view gabe as redeemable. and he sure as fuck wouldn’t be stupid enough to DETRANSFORM wWITHIN MIRACULOUS GRABBING DISTANCE OF THE ACTUAL SCOUNDREL AND LIAR OF A MAN THAT IS GABRIEL AGRESTE . gabe literally could’ve even gotten his win and somwhow snagged the miraculouses and reset the world but it would feel more like the pathetic cowardly way out that it was bc he was truly running away and yet continuing to make himself a martyr. the identity reveal would be earned and i think having mari there to be with adrien as they both realize they’ve always been each other’s rock and seeing this new dynamic and navigation of trauma would’ve been SUCH A GOOD SETUP FOR THE THE NEXT SEASON BECAUSE IT EXPLORES THEIR CHARACTERS AND DYNAMIC AND DEEP LOVE FOR EACH OTHER WHICH IS ALL WE EVER WANTED
im slamming my head into a concrete floor I HATE WHEN THIS SHOW IS GOOD BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT IT ALWAYS HAD THE CAPACITY TO BE!!!!!!!!!! AND WASNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ripping up drywall and eating it throwing my body across the ocean doing multiple backflips and crashing and dying I HATE THIS SHOW I LOVE THIS SHOW I MOURN WHAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN
Derision must be the worst miraculous episode. Yeez, simpleman is better than it. Yes. I think simpleman is better than derision. Atleast that episode wasn't meant to be an important episode. First off. Marinette's flashback makes no sense. She said she wouldn't fall in love with a friend of Chloé and make sure to know everything about them. Yet she falls for Adrien. THE SAME DAY THEY MET! Then there's Luka. She doesn't make sure to know his schedule, she didn't stalk him to another country, she didn't break into his room. And yet she's okay thinking about dating him? Just no. Second is Kim, or as I call him this episode, Tim. Because I refuse to think this is the same person. Kim was never heartless. He's dumb yes. But not heartless. Him saying Marinette couldn't take a joke when it clearly traumatized her is not something Kim would do. Then him saying lovestruck that Chloé is the most beautiful girl in the world. INFRONT OF HIS GIRLFRIEND! Like what the fuck!? He could have been seen feeling guilty before getting akumatized. But nope. Now Chloé. Thomas can go screw himself. He made Chloé in the flashback act more evil than in season one. Where the fuck did that come from!? Oh I know. It's because Thomas hate Chloé with a burning passion. Just. Fudge this man.
Fr like even Gabriel got a redemption and not Chloe she's just a kid!!! And Gabriel literally killed plp and so much more and he still gets redeemed?!? Like that statue thaatt was with ladybug and cat noir and now it's Gabriel? No just no...
@@simply_iris11 exactly! Thomas mean to tell us that you can be redeemed even if you're a terrorized. But you're irredeemable if you're an abused teenager who actually showed signs for wanting to change? He don't know how to write a redeemeble character at all
I HATE the fact that Thomas Astruc totally ignored catnoir in the finale like wtf bro I thought they would fight him together and catnoir deserves to know that his father was hawkmoth. The fact that they praised him at the end and made a whole statue made me furious I don’t want it to end like that like at least the movie they found out. ALSO Chloe’s redemption… we need that they did her so dirty he even confirmed in the next season she’ll stay the same no redemption I hate this.
i genuinely thought the ending was a parallel world where his dad died in the past instead of his mum as a result of the wish, until i saw that stupid statue! i was temporarily so invested in what the show would do with parallel worlds
38:15 funnily enough, stronger together is actually written around a leitmotif from the soundtrack of the show, under the name of "cat noir's broken heart". it played way back in glaciator when ladybug stood cat noir up, and then got incorporated into the movie.
Somethibg that frustrated me was the sentimonster reveal of Adrien/Felix. Fans theorized it, but the hints were here and there, almost as if coincidental and they just wanted to please the fans with the reveal.
Thats exsactly how i felt about it, it wasnt intenional but they saw fans say it and went "yeah that lets do that" because since when do sentimonsters age
@@ThinkBoxChris And it really meant nothing, sympathizing Felix (an underrated villain) at the last minute in contrast to Chloe or Sabrina, and the finale still invalodated Adrien and gaslit him. The movie, while extremely flawed and rushed the arc, was much better.
@@ThinkBoxChris no no I know you made this before London special...what I meant is this comment has one month ago and it has been more than a month so I was like "surely this guy knows this by now that Emilie is still de@d"
29:21 Plan for perpetual motion machine: 1: Get A Kiwami 2: Tell yourself you A beeg boi 3: Congratulations, your Yakuza Kiwami 2 now has infinite heat.
Don't you just love how back in season 1, Marinette's excuse for humiliating Lila is that she doesn’t put up with liars, especially when they're lies about her But at the end of season five, she lies to the whole world that Gabriel helped her defeat Monarch, which is also a lie about her. So she hates when someone else lies about her, but it's fine when she lies about herself
If I wrote that scene I would’ve made it so that she steps in for Lila’s own good. Picture this Marinette thinks that Lila’s lies will eventually get back to hawk moth and he might go after her so she humiliates her in front of everyone not just Adrian so everyone knows it wasn’t true and Lila is no longer at risk of being either followed or captured. But that’s just me
Good watch. I disagree on felix and kagami being good because to me it felt super rushed and a bit awkward/forced (they could have been friends for a while first imo) but everything else is pretty spot on. I still think it's tragic they just killed off Gabe though, since he's such a compelling character and it also just puts Adrien in an even worse position both as a character emotionally and in terms of his character development going forward. The idea of season 6 right now makes me I think the most nervous I've ever been for the direction of this show.
I really dont mind them getting together fast given their personalities are very blunt and to the point so it makes sense, plus im just sick of waiting for characters to get together. If you like someone asking them out is pretty common irl why make an audience wait when you can just get to the relationship?
Its not really stalking when he more rescued her from her shit life. Marinette stalking was bad because it was for reason pther thsn a sick joke. Here its more a white knight if anything that feels earned since we spend so little time with them before this its actuslly aloud to be good
@@ThinkBoxChrisDude, don't play semantics here, Felix stated, and I quote, "I know you. *I've been following you non-stop."* That's objectively stalking. If you follow someone without their knowledge or consent, that's stalking. Just because the show doesn't play it for *laughs* doesn't mean the show isn't casually displaying stalking behavior with its relationships. And "rescued her from her shit life"? And you know how he began rescuing her from her mother, who violates Kagami's autonomy as a person? By *kidnapping her,* violating Kagami's autonomy as a person. That is not okay, two wrongs don't somehow make a right. Tomoe is a bad mother but that doesn't suddenly make Felix's actions towards Kagami okay under any circumstances. You don't treat someone who's been abused and controlled their whole lives by actively undermining their own agency, that's beyond messed up actually. This is a criticism the main ship suffers from due to how Marinette controls the knowledge Adrien has of his dead abusive father, outright lying to him under the pretense of making him happy and it applies to Felix and Kagami here. I know you like Felix and Kagami as a pairing but that shouldn't blind you from actually seeing the problematic ways the show handles the relationship. This show has an unhealthy obsession of including stalking and other problematic stuff into its relationships, which is just horrible because this show is aimed at *children* who might get horrible lessons from the relationships portrayed in this show.
@ryancarson6962 dude literally took her from her monther gave her the ring to her freedom and made it so she felt heard and listened to. Her life isn't exsavtly secrect im not defending by saying hes not stalking full stop theres more to it then that. Marinette is actively following adrien for no reason beyond her felings for her. Felix legit only "stalked" her that morning, and i like them but im not so blind by that to not see how it can be bad but based on scope im more indifferent to that. Marinette is bad because its constant and manipulative felix only helped kagami and gave her knowledge i fail to see one insident of following someone for their benifit long term vs years of actual federal crimes being committed are comparable
i genuinely thought for the longest time that they would end miraculous with them getting together at the same time as the reveal cause the writers always seemed like cowards who couldn't properly write a relationship up to the standards they set, seeing as they spent almost nine years teasing them getting together. the intriuge of the reveal and relationship dissipated more every season, and it peaked mid season two
27:58 Emily was not resurrected, Gabriel made a wish to be reunited with her in the afterlife In this scene we are shown not Emily and Natalie, we are shown Natalie and Emily's sister whose name I don't remember P.S. Natalie and Gabriel never dated, Gabriel didn't really care about Natalie, he was just using her but Natalie had feelings for him, probably
I will say this. Since from what I've heard about season 6. Its a time skip or a mini time skip. Which could really work. They could add in new things, kinda a "fresh start". I do like season 5 and how it was written (although, I do have some problems with it.) I could see they tried with this one, at least. So, hoping that it's going to be good. Still mad that it took FIVE seasons to get here though. Also, side note. If Lila becomes the new Hawkmoth... they should use Felix more often or somehow take him off the show for a while. Given that Felix figured out the last Hawkmoths identity, rather quickly... which... how did they made the side character figure everything out BEFOFE the heroes? Add to the fact that he did this in like less then five episodes 😅😅 He's a smart character, which they (the characters) should make good use of him. Given that Felix is now on the heroes side now... kinda wished he was more of an antihero but what do I know. Knowing that he is a smart character, could give a bit of trouble. Because realistically, he could solve it rather quickly. So they might have to give an excuse as to why he isn’t here. Or make him go dumber as the story goes.... I hope that isn’t the case 😭
Thomas really tried to please the fans by "filling plot holes" or whatever, he kind of just made it worse. I was actually really shocked when the special was actually good.
16:00 I do have a theory, but it probably isn’t true by the way, so Chloe character assassination was apparently something to writers couldn’t really fix Because miraculous has story written up to season eight by this point, so there is a lot of story that already exist. But I think that all the stuff this season with Lila manipulating Chloe I think Lila was supposed to take that role set her up as the next villain, but Thomas changed it because he was pissed off about the fans reaction to the Chloe character assassination
Also, to be fair, it also could’ve been written like this. but even if it was written like this, I feel like you could still have changed it in the way so you didn’t upset the fan base
Adrien not being allowed to participate in the ending really ticked me off. I remember in the comments of your previous video, I mentioned how little of the Chinese/Asian aesthetic are tied to Marinette,the actual Asian character. Well, the same can be said for the plot. Marinette has no ties to the main plot. She has no relation to the main villain. That's *Adrien's* role. And yet she gets this final battle with someone who never really played a big role in her life up until she got her Miraculous, and even then, his role was in the background. The finale should have been *Adrien's* time to shine, or they could take out Gabriel as a *team.* Instead, they leave him in the dark like a child. Honestly, this is my biggest issue with the show: One main character has ties to everything going on, and the writers do so little with him. While the other main character has no ties to *anything* going on, and yet the writers cram *everything* they can into her story. This could have been an easy fix. How about this? In season one, Marinette has no idea how or why she has her Miraculous. Then, in season two, we find out that Marinette and Master Fu were related in some way. Maybe Master Fu is Marinette's great-great-something grandfather, making her a descent of that Guardian order thing Master Fu was a part of. THIS WAY, Marinette actually has ties to the main plot, just in the opposite direction, and she's not just "the special one." Guarding the Miraculous could become something of a family honor to her, and she hates Hawkmoth for disrespecting it. Like Hawkmoth has gone after Marinette's friends and family before, but it's never felt *personal* before. With this backstory, things can finally feel personal, and Marinette gets a real connection to her heritage and the plot.
And the sad part is this,and a lot of the main plot writing issues in the show could've been fixed with one simple change: Have Mari be an intern at Gabriel's company and have her be the apprentice to Gabriel in fashion design. I know that because of Thomas being incompetent,this perfect setyp would've been screwed somehow,but it's so simple,that I'm confused they've never thought of it.
@infinitedreamer9359 No, what's really sad is the writers were SO CLOSE to doing that in the season two episodes where we meet Chloé's mother. The solution was very simple. Just have Audrey stay in Paris at the START, and Marinette could intern alongside her, thus giving Marinette some level of access to Gabriel without him suspecting she's Ladybug. They could have worked with this.
@@frankielovejoy9928 I prefer the Mari internship/Gabe mentor idea because it solves a LOT of the main plot's issues in one go,provided the writers and/or Thomas were competent(which at this point they've proven they aren't but oh well) 1. It gives Mari some sorely needed development by focusing on why and how she wants to be a fashion designer,a trait which had no focus after S1. 2. It puts Mari and Adrien closer to each other earlier,which means that they can interact with each and develop their relationship with a better pacing.After all,Adrien is a model for his fathers company,so it's not crazy that they'd see each fairly often. 3, Mari being an intern and then being an apprentice to Gabriel in fashion as their relationship develops means that Mari now has more of a reason to be in the main plot Meaning that it hits harder when she eventually finds that that Gabe is Hawkmoth. 4.It gives a good way for Gabe to be a bit humanized,while not feeling contrived. Have Gabe see the potential in Mari to be a good fashion designer. Have him grow to be a mentor to her and in some ways maybe he see her like a daughter and him a proud parent when she takes in his lessons. The man runs a fashion label,so surely he does have passion for the craft and respects others who are the same right? 5. Mari being an apprentice to Gabe could easily serve as a catalyst for Adrien's own development in being his own person and not accept Gabe's abuse. He starts seeing the difference in Gabe's treatment between himself and Mari and that cause him to question things. Could also serve as conflict between the two. As for Gabe suspecting something? That's easy to deal with as magic is a thing in MLB. Have Fu give her some kind of charm that like W.I.T.C.H's Astral Drops. Or if not that, just have Alya be brought in a bit earlier and have her sub in Mari in the cases where her leaving would look suspicious.
@@frankielovejoy9928 This setup is simple to justify,the ideas were in place, and helps give a lot more of a solid foundation to the plot,I'm surprised too that the writers didn't think about using it. Then again,I wouldn't be surprised if in the beginning it WAS brought up by writers to Thomas,but he shut it down. Thomas really is to me the real cause behind MLB's awful writing because the man's in a position where he can veto ideas he doesn't like and Thomas being who he is,he often wants to the show to go HIS way to the detriment of the quality of the story. Thomas really needs to be put in a position where he doesn't have as much influence over the shows development, because he's proven that he can't be trusted with how he's ran his shown into the ground over the years.
I’m surprised people still ship Adrienette. Post-puppeteer2 Marinette just seems predatory. Think about it. Adrien is a sheltered kid who struggles to stand up for himself and shows signs of autism. He’s never known anything other than loneliness and neglect. He’s the perfect person to manipulate. Marinette gets a crush on him, then proceeds to stalk him to find more info about him. She tries to get him to like her using the info she knows about him. It’s just manipulation. Several other behaviors she has also mirror manipulation tactics. - She isolates him by separating him from his father, Chloe, Kagami, Lila, and anyone he might be friends with besides Nino. She also spends more and more time with him, making sure he barely has any connections outside of her - She tries to make his decisions for him, which makes it harder for him to stand up for himself and get out of the relationship - She lies to him to get out of bad situations. In Puppeteer 2, she tries to cover up her being weird with Adrien when she thought he was a wax statue. Already creepy behavior, but even worse when she can’t fess up to it. - Notice how she does nothing wrong and is never called out for her actions? That’s because the story is told from her perspective. Every episode revolves around her and other characters’ thoughts are almost never explored. She believes she is the victim, even when that’s not what her behavior shows. She justifies her behavior by telling herself it’s because of her trauma - She gives him excessive gifts which makes him overlook her stalking. Very similar to love bombing - The stalking. She invades his privacy, then uses the information to manipulate him. She uses his schedule to make plans to set up the narrative that she’s this amazing person, uses info to plan gifts for his special days to make herself look good, and she uses his weaknesses to propel herself (standing up to his father which she knows will make herself look better) - She pretends to listen to him, then ignores him. When Adrien tells her it’s best to leave Lila alone, she pretends to listen at first and doesn’t do anything, but then later makes a plan to expose her for everything. It makes the illusion of trust, but then she goes against his wishes when he forgets about it There’s probably even more problematic stuff if you dig deeper Marinette gets better in the later seasons but it doesn’t excuse her past behavior as she hasn’t been shown to learn from it, and would probably do it again when the time calls. I don’t get how anyone could support their relationship Edit: I realized that some of these points aren’t valid, however this ship still grosses me out
Oh the ladynoire from that alternate universe was actually possessed by Mikunette which is why her design is different and she takes the initiative of taking Gabriel down, it's the same with the pv ladybug: the design is different because she possesses the ladybug of that universe.
I feel like that wasnt properly explained because it really does feel like shes following him given the first time we see her its in the scarabella universe
@@ThinkBoxChris The moment I saw pv ladybug being replaced by Mikunette I just kinda assumed that was the case and that she just posseses each Marinette like how Alya posseses each Alya since it's an akuma/kamiko rather than the miraculous traveling interdimensionally. Show don't tell yipeee
@TrickiTrickstars it really doesnt come off thst way though. And show don't tell is such a subjective thing i can show you a mechanic but if i didn't tell you how it works i might as well just dobe a magic trick. Just a simple "youll be able to follow him via your other bodies across the mulit verse would be fine" or even the other lady bug holders would be some kinda consistency rather than just assuming wed get it
@@ThinkBoxChris I'm surprised Betterfly didn't end up saying "Ladybiquity, I'm giving you the power to travel between the different versions of your civilian form of different universes" bros didn't have the budget or time for that extra lipsync 😭 If they didn't wanna do that maybe they should've shown marinette from that universe being possessed but that would've been extra work and more elaborate than the first option.
@@ThinkBoxChriswell if it wasn't, they wouldn't have an excuse to throw in a revolution for "symbolism"...facts like a deputy mayor, an election, and Chloé being underage just get in the way of their idiot plot
honestly I'm torn on it. the thing is I THINK the reason adrien wasn't in the finally was more due to gabriel than adrien..because I THINK that Gabe had side effects from misusing the butterfly miraculous which was implied by the parallels the final battle had with collector(the whole please keepy adrien from knowing I took the book where gabriel agreed to not tell adrien in collector when mari asked where he praised her/was understanding of her coming forward even after shit hit the fan where gabe was surprisingly understanding and even answered her questions and showed vulnerabilty which echos how in the final battle marinette agrees to not tell adrien what gabriel did where she showed surprising understanding toward him). in collector not only did it have one of the best thorough apologies to adrien that the show didn't undercut to be insincere but it had a point that gabe akumatized himself without knowing if there would be side effects. The dude has been amplifying his own negative emotions over and over again while also simplying his motive to better project in on the akuma victims so they'd add HIS goal to their goals which had nothing to do with his goal. the show has pointed out that your emotional state when using a miraculous is VERY important. master fu just wanted snacks but the peaccks sensed his inner resentment toward the guardians and went ballistic eating everything miraculous related. marinette used her charm in bubbler to seperate chloe and adrien out of jealousy(even if we knot it freed adrien to transform into chat) where it immediatley caused her powers to power down which they revealed was a safty feature for younger miraculous holders to protect them from side effects. we saw that tikki could effect mari while in the suit when tikki was going gaga for gallets as well..and they've made a point of pointing out that using multiple miraculous not only put a strain on your body but could LITERALLY drive you insane. considering how we've see akuma victims are people who feel negatively and hurt and sad who then try to validate/get those feelings known in the worst ways no matter how valid their feelings are..where we've seen them get hyper agressive, make dumb decisions, be unable to REALLY think clearly or realize what they are doing wasn't REALLY going to fix their problem and was getting strangers and others involved which had nothing to do with their initial feelings/motives. an akuma victim can't be talked down or logied with even if they feel in control..we've seen illusions of it sometimes like with evilstrator who ditched his first motive of messing with chloe to go on a date with mari...but he was still VERY unstable and swung right back to it. akuma villians are hyper focused, get more agressive and will do things like attack people who have nothing to do with the situation to loved ones they'd never attack otherwise without a second thought even though normal them would NEVER. where SOMETIMES under certain circumstances they could be talked down a little or not attack someone who has a certain connection. like how in horrificator melanie didn't attack ivan or in santa claws the santa didn't attack adrien who had shown kindness while also showing parenst and grandparents will go after people they love under that influence without a second thought.
I think they were trying to go for the idea that due to usng his powers the wrong way Gabe had been amplifying his own negative feelings like he does with akuma victims as well as ampligfing his fixation where he starts to suffer from side effects similar to akuma victims only without a clear fix liek breaking a item. That would help validate that gabe DID genuinely mean his feelings of wanting to save his wife for his family and that he does genuinely care while ALSO explaining the times he went so cartoonishly evil and horrible as not something to be overlooked/dismissed becuase it woud be a side effect from misusing his miraculous. it would explain the times he'd do something that has NOTHING to do with his main motive of saving the mom like causing actual destruction or in the newyork special or when he'd act odd like attacking his son when we'd all assume that gabe would not akumatize his kid or like most parents he'd feel horrified and conflicted...where its due to the amplifying of his megative emotions and the hawkmoth persona that actually takes over. if thats the case it would explain that the times gabe finds out adrien is chat that Gabe becomes WAY worse..becuase one of the people grounding gabe to his orginal motive as civilian adrien who has nothing to do with the hawkmoth persona...which is why when he finds out its chat..due to amplifying his negative emotions over and over to fixate on battling ladybug and chat it makes teh hawkmoth persona take over and explaisn why he gets weird and cackles and get more agressive and just the WORST even though we've seen Gabe WILL hesitate when he believes adrien is in ACTUAL danger in the show where he refused to akumatized his son. so Adrien NOT being in the final battle feels like the point was so gabe never finds out adrien is chat..which means that is why mari is actually able to use civilian adrien as a subject to actually connect and try to get through to gabriel since adrien is still associated with just gabriel's civilian side. if this is what they were going for than gabriel being redeemable WOULD make sense since thematically te show has pointed out that the akuma villians are in fact people who are desperate and hurting who try to fix their own problems alone..but in the worst ways due to being unable to think clearly due to their negative emotions..just like how many upset people act out of emotional impulse. but that a point is these villians are in fact hurt depserate people where the way to solve the problem is to find the source of the problem is and acknowledge it..literlaly break it open(as its represented by a item) where THEN you get a chance to talk them down and get them help that they need. the big bad guy who they thought as simply bad actually being one of the most hurt and desperate trying to solve a problem on his own the wrong way DOES work thematically in the show and COULD work with the idea that gabe fought hawkmoth...like if a akuma victim had to fight/push back on the akuma persona. and a big factor for mari being there is mari and gabe have REALLY REALLY REALLY strong parallels throughout the show..that parallels and flaw sthey have in common don't get touche don properly enough in the show since teh shwo spent so much time trying to make you see gave as simply the worst/bad while trying to get you to see mari as the best/good. and mari is also honestly the trype t judge quickly and not be as merciful...girl holds grudges and judges quickly and is firm about her opinions until something forces her to change her mind..usually a situation exploading in her face first..Mari learned at the begining to be irm on bad people and not give them an d opening and that you can succefully push back on bullies this way. give no room fpr them to wiggle out where she is firm when she sees something as wrong which has pros and cons.. a pro is she doesnt let bad behaviour be excused...on the other mari tends to jumpt to consclusions quickly, judge quickly and it doesnt give much wiggle room for nuance... hence why mari learning nuance and that even bad people she thought of as evil could be complex and have their own issues and aren;t irrdeemable was important...so you COULD say that adrien and chat'sinfluence was there with her in spirit becuase it was adrien/chat that helped her really look at people from different angles and to know she should look a bit deeper since she misjudged adrien that first day and both adrien and chat are more patient and understanding that her at times where he more accuratle can put himself in other peoples shoes which is something she is consistantly weak at in the show. she's still a good person no doubt..but it IS something she struggles with. so her showing compassion toward hawkmoth could be see as growth for mari AND show the influence of adrien and chat. the main issue I have though is throughout the show they use CHLOE to really teach mari the lessons to give bad people second chances and that there can be more to their circumstances but then they said that chloe was irrdeemable...impying there was no point..so I DON'T understand mari giving gabril a chance when he's shown his worst to mari in particular this season. mind you the show has also made it clear that akma villains are victims who get taken advantage of and manipulated when at their lowest and that the REAL villians are the ones who enable and manipulate them...where chloe only started spiraling after Gabriel LITERALLY set her up to fail. targeted her family. took them hostage after telling her it was becuase of chloe that he targetted them..then led her to be isolated on a rooftop and cut hre means of communication then dug into her insecurities and took pollen and the other kwami's hostage where if chloe said no he would have keot them and she'd be alone with a uphappy villian with no way to defend herself. I get mari and others beliebing chloe was just being entitled about being queen bee since chloe doubled down after but chloe HAD accepted not being queen bee back in miraculoer and they dont know hakwmoth took her family and the kwami's hostage and that chloe only agreed after he freed them...like teh dude is a master emotional manipulator and set her up...and chloe being worse following that felt like chloe was over compensating and relying on being means as something familiar since she felt she burned her bridge with Ladybug since the side heros were revealed which paralleled how both mari and adrien relied on old familar behavior to try to lie to themselves and others that they were fine..using their crushes and old behaviour as distractions and coping mechanisms where they were lowkey pushing others away at times(especially mari). where we see chle is manipulated at other time slater by hawkmoth AND lila...only it shows how in real life you face the consequences if you manipluated or not and whathappens when you have bad coping mechanisms...the whole point of emotional manipulation is you get tricked into thinking its all your idea where your goig to struggle to see yourself as a victim since no one likes to feel they are out of control of themselves..... i honestly feel like a point is chloe faces karma but there is also something dark to it becuase mari and others havent noticed the manipulation and that chloe si also a victim as well..which makes sense for mari due to her not knowing everything we know and how mari responds to behaviour first...but does make me feel like a point is that mari is WRONG about chloe being irredeemable just like how mari often misjudges situatins and people in the show at times.
god i suddenly remember the incredibly weird stage play they used to indoctrinate Adrian about his backstory (i dont remember if this is correct ive only seen that episode once)
If Derision was only about the trauma and bullying part and not about the "justifying the stalking" part at all, I would have really liked the episode. Unfortunately, it tries to justify the stalking, which really brings it down. I also wished Marinette told Adrien about his father being Monarque, and I wished he didn't end up being seen as a hero by the parisians at the end of the season, because Adrien deserves to know what his father did, and deserves to be angry at him for how he was treated. He shouldn't have to feel conflicted about this because his father supposedly acted heroically, because, even if Gabriel had done a heroic action, which he didn't, but if he did, then he would still have been a horrible father. The parisians also deserve to know what he did. Oh, and Reverse-Gabriel's superhero name is Hesperia in French, I'm just putting that here if you don't like the name in the english version and you don't like to say it. I liked some parts of the finale, especially Marinette going off on Gabriel for mistreating Adrien that way BUT Adrien should have been there, especially considering how personal this confrontation would have been. Like, it's nice to see Marinette defend him and calling out Gabriel for his awful behavior to his face, but Adrien should have been present in the finale to do that himself, since he's the victim here.
I am sincerely asking this question Why are we considering a woman trans when she just liked to wear masculine things Like I don’t understand and it don’t make sense
Did no one listen when i said the other things or is it just the clothing bit that sticks out? Not the fact they were pretty androgynous to begin with or that they courted people of both genders and wore those clothes like theres more to gender then clothing but clothing does play a role in gender presentation. Like it is a part of it but its not the whole thing i even said
@@ThinkBoxChris oh lord so more movei story that's good but also more of this nonsense someone needs to get Thomas away from the show he has a very bad obsession with his fake daughter
I haven’t watched the special but seeing the clips you’re showing and hearing you speak on it I feel like I’m gonna watch it. It’s ironic how much the costume design looks so good for a special but not the actual show smh.
@@ThinkBoxChrisI just finished it and it’s so good!!!! Like love everything about it. HOWEVER also I didn’t like that when the reverted to good heroes their outfit (especially shadybugs) changed. At least leave her hair alone. 😭
The magic that prevents Kwames from being photograph or recorded also prevents people from reckonizeing the person in the costume or being able to connect the dots to figure out their identity ( unless someone does something stupid like saying "Dude" all the time when only one person in Paris says it.)
@seandunne6714 then the show needs to say that, kwamis cant interfer with each others magic, but it shouldmt hamstring the characters critical thinking skills. Magic should have some rhym or resson, not be made up a decade in to snipe at fans
39:59 …yeah, this kinda aged well. They uh- made her handicapped. She has prosthetic legs now for some reason and it’s not explained. Season 6 will either explain it well, or explain it horribly.
The episode where Zoey tells Marinette that she likes her and you clarifying it is 100% true. I mentioned this in an unrelated video, but once I came out to my best friend that I had a crush on him, we are happy that we are still friends and we both understand that it can never work because he is straight and I'm gay. And while I didn't have any kind of emotion from Zoey telling Marinette more than the other show, it still brings my mind back to the, "friend is gay and has a crush on their straight friend".
Ive been in a similar situation and its not fun, but im not mad at the trope here cause its not pinning its just a single episode and its done, i like that
Women can dress how they want. Dressing masculine does not make them trans. And Jeanne was literally a soldier, I think they all wear masculine clothing.
Did no one pay attention to the other points or yall just stuck on clothes like normal? Im aware clothes dont make a persons gender i know cis men in skirts and cis women in pant suits they're still their respective gender, same with trans people in opposite directions as well. Its not the clothes thats important it was everything else around the clothes, clothes was just thrown in to help my point. Also very funny everyone is pointing out the clothes as a gotcha but no one cares i called them bisexual
@@ThinkBoxChris This is so funny, speaking as a Trans person like. Yeah, uh, they can - but it takes a proper level of ignorance to go "Uh, yeah, Scholars have been discussing this topic for years and come to a pretty good conclusion about this person's Identity - and this is just the information we've got properly recorded. This follows an idea we have from other proto-transgender icons. HMM. But I disagree." Joanne of Trans Arc frfr
@KatieKat223 i gave sources in the description i didnt make this up, i didnt come up with it i head peoples concerns looked into it and came to my conclusion. How is that any different from any other kind or research? Further more its getting kinds frustrating when people only focus on clothing when i mention other factors that point to it from what I read. Im no trans expert i just repeated what i read as best i could, im not saying people are are wrong for disagreeing my issue comes in from how they decide to handle that disagreement. Like for example mocking me
28:12 The ONE thing I'll grant the ending is that was probably his wife's sister at the pool, with the wish saving only Natalie so he could join his wife in the afterlife. That said I prefered the film ending for him.
Color me surprised. I didn’t think you’d like the ship Feligami. But hey. Glad I’m not alone in that! Also great to see you again! Hope you’ve been doing well! ☺️😁
I think the reason why Derision was so bad was because the episode was used to excuse Marinette's stalking behavior, and not actually explain it. There is a difference between an explanation and an excuse. Thomas Astruc was deliberately trying to excuse Marinette because she was the main character and the hero of the story. Not even Chloé got the same treatment Marinette did. There is a reason why Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse, and this exemplifies it.
I honestly told my self to finish season 5 and I'm never watching this show again, I'm still going with that because I can't take the writing anymore. I will watch the paris special because it sounds interesting and might as well rap up any loses ends.
12:00 The tracker was tracking the Miraculouses being activated, not the wearer, unlike Safari's power in Passion. It's just strange they didn't come after her once she put both on at the end of Conformation, but that's a separate plot hole.
What annoys me the most is tge treatment of Chloe and the way they handled the end of the Gabriel arc. Like i will never be able to forgive the writers of this show for sending an abused chiod to oive with her abuser and then a few episodes later in tge finale let Adriend beoieve his father was a good person and make him look like the good guy and not give Adrien the chance to confront him. these children do not deserve this, this is literally excusing/justifying abuse/neglect and also forgiving Gabriel in the second cawe, who also has been terrorizing paris for an entire year. This show's writung just feels s9 out of touch with how real life worka sometimes and the messsages it's sending
Okay, your take Joan of Arc is really weird. All because females feel more comfortable in male defined clothing doesn't make them trans. If you want to debate about her sexuality, I have no problem with that. I'm just not cool with trying to take female representation of empowerment away to change it into something else.
This is honestly a take im seeing a lot. And i think people are misunderstanding a fundamental thing; i never claimed the clothing was tbe reason they were trans. People are getting the cause and effect baxkwords in this case, clothing and gender are independent i know people on both sides of the divide that wear clothes of any representation and frankly i dont care. People are focusing on the cloths because its an easy way to refute what i said without the other things i brought up. Im not saying my phrasing is perfect but i have sources thst id encourage people to read before just saying im taking away from women when that has nothing to do with this topic. Its also weirdly transphobic to immediately go "but your taking from women if this is the case" without thinking about the implications of how trans people might feel on this matter. Women have countless examoles of string enpowering figures, yes some even in the army, but you never hear about them because joan of arvh was noteworthy simply for the tragedy of it all and i think boiling them down to "women in army= good female rep" kinda misses the point of why they were even on war to begin with, regardless of gender. On top of that its not like i made this up and then wrote the script i heard people had issues with the episode did some reaserch and came to my own conclusions based on said research which i sorced. Its not a take if im just telling you my findings.
I think you didn’t get that part in the finale but Adrien literally became an Orphan it’s not her mom in the pool party it’s Felix’s mom….and this just make it even worse that Gabriel just choose to abandon his son 😩
@julietchristopher7578 people care about these characters and your aloud to, you clearly do given your saying theres still hope when thats just wishful thinking at this point. The series has shown us what it is hope died a long time ago
I agree, the series needs a reboot, with new writers, new animation, new everything. And I would rather have it as an anime, maybe a wanna be Sailor Moon, anything as long as the current writer team is out of the picture. Several characters also needs to be rebooted, such as Marinette and Chloe, after all, they are the representation of Thomas's middle school bully and daughter 😐 There is also many other fucked up things such as one of the artists of the show drawing Po*n ... or Thomas creating a comic where he depicts Marinette almost naked with a black man 💀 and many more...this franchise is dead and I lost hope in Season 4. I hope they can just either finish it off and forget about it or reboot it and actually make a great story out of it.
It'd be best you guys stop watching it instead of ranting about how bad it is ... I for one, feel completely indifferent when a show doesn't do it for me.... I don't even have time to rant about it.
Doesn't matter whom, as it's demonstrably true. (there'll likely never be a film about the WWII Battle of Samar, as the audience wouldn't believe it 😅😆)
@jimtaylor294 tom Clancy said it according to Wikipedia but the qoute he took from was mark twan's the only difference is he changed the line from "has to bs credible" to "make sense". As for that battle it seems semi intresting i mean if they can make a movie about the boardgame battle ship midly intresting then whoes to say an underdog story about ww2 wouldnt work? You know the academy loves those movie's
@ThinkBoxChris It'd make sense that Mark Twain would've said it, though odds are quite a few people before him had a similar proverb, as even Theater Plays have to worry about a level of believability that everyday life doesn't 😆 . I recommend Drachinifel's video on Samar. He illustrates quite well how insanely unlikely the result was, and how painfully outclassed Taffy 3 was. A more mundane example of what I was driving at would be those moments where something happens by accident that would pretty much be impossible intentionally 😉 . (like being tossed a Satsuma, only for it to bounce off your palm, and through some bizarre act of physics finds itself in the waste paper bin across the room... leaving yourself and the family member whom casually tossed it briefly stunned & then laughing)
My theory is that the reason Gabriel was later known as a hero is because later Marinette will accidentally reveal to Adrien that his dad was hawk moth / shadow moth / monarch, which would lead to having Adrien akumatized.
Also the last scene where Lilah saw something that geniuenly made her shocked could possibly be the kwami null. When kwamis are created they aren't created with a miraculous, which means that someone has to create a miraculous for null, which leads to my next question which is how are they going to turn back the miraculous to their normal forms now that Gabriel turned them into rings.
I love the points you made in this video. I don't want to defend the writing decisions for the finale of the 5th season, but I think there was stuff thought through when they chose to let Adrien out of the final battle with Gabriel and have Marinette lie to Adrien at the end. Considering Tomoe Tsurugi is still going to be a threat ("I will continue his legacy"), there might be more lore reveals in season 6. What if Marinette lying to Adrien foreshadows their possible break-up later on? I bet they won't just leave this possibility unexplored. There will be angst 100% for this lie in the future between Adrien and Marinette. I just hope there can be a way to make Adrien's reaction satisfying to hearing the truth.
at the end, i think that its not adriens mom but aunt. nathalie was hurt bc of the peacock miraculous, but at the ending scene we see that shes okay. i think that gabriel wished to save nathalie.
ngl i love your commentary, and honestly i would like to hear your opinion on the London/Time Travel special! Or would you rather save that for when season 6 airs as warm up? It opens such an interesting plot line, would like to hear your opinion!
@ Yeahh season 6 is supposed to release soon but has no air date? I’m assuming it’s next month, but we’ll see. Thanks for replying! Would love to see what you have to say about season 6 and the special when it comes out! Your points are made extremely well, and I agree with most if not all of them. Thanks again!!
This finale made me give up on the show. After everything, my expectations were at rock bottom for the finale. I would’ve been happy if A, the identity reveal happened and B. Adrien found out his father was a psychopath. But alas even the smallest of expectations were far too much for this show. It sucks too because they set up Adrien finding out about his father perfectly. He used his cataclysm on Gabe and now Gabe is dying. BOOM. Have him see in the finale that his dad is Hawkmoth or Monarch or whatever and then flip to his side, when he realizes this may be the only way to save the last parent he has. Provide actual conflict for Adrien to be the center of, instead of sending him away.
48:59 Ah shoot! I forgot to say this for the portion of “next season set up”. Sailor moon didn’t feel the need to set up their next villain till the next season came around, so I don’t know why the writers were so over eager to set up the next villain who CAN BE SOMEONE WITHOUT THE BUTTERFLY BROACH! Hell, if they had a gap season where the order of the guardians were the antagonists or had a bigger plot dealing with the reverse universe then I feel the show would get a lot less stale.
The Fate series and puella magi madoka magica treats Jeanne d'arc way better then this show has and in madoka magica she's on screen for 5 seconds and doesn't speak she just exist on screen for 5 seconds sigh I'm gonna go watch the movie and something that has romance in it that is well written
I was so confused by the final scene. Had to look it up to understand what exactly happened, and most ppl online didn’t quite know either. Now, I’m p sure the woman is Felix’s mom, not Adrien’s, whose mom and dad are now both dead. So, maybe Gabe’s wish was to cure Natalie? Idk, I really wish they’d clarified more. That being said, I’m glad for the status quo change. Lila is entertaining and deserves to be main villain, and now Adrien can live with Natalie and his aunt and cousin.
22:30 he's such a manipulator originally he was going to let Natalie die that's why he said "seems you really were loyal to me to the very end." FREAKIN CREEP!!!!!
In my opinion the finale of season 5 should have been the one time we swap to Adrien. Like imagine after seeing hawk Moth is Gabriel if she almost immediately removed her miraculous and sent tikki to take the Miraculous to Adrien and tell him everything and Gabriel seeing this through presumed security cameras takes marinette hostage potentially even Hearing that his son is getting the ladybug miraculous all without marinette knowing he's the holder of the cat Miraculous
Also good god this show… we finally get shit we want but it took to long and at times I’m like “at what cost” Thomas worked on code lyoko… how the hell did he screw up THIS badly Is it wierd of me to say I wanna write my own version of the show, to fix all the major issues?
@@ThinkBoxChris true very true I was just re-watching code lyoko on another binge (for like the billionth time XD) and I realize a lot of characters in Miraclous seems to have similarities to those of code lyoko… you cannot tell me Cat Noir (hero not Adrine) didn’t have some inspiration from Odd… or Chloe was the sissy of the squad… honestly… or- okay if I start listing everything we’d be here all day The question is what would be the biggest change the fandom wants (Chloe aside cause I think we all almost agree upon that XD)
48:05 if we’re being honest marinette going in for the fight isn’t that BIG of a deal, cat noir is normally the fighter/fights for time while ladybug comes up with a plan. so marinette with the cat miraculous would just take cat noirs role.
Since others have mentioned the issues I have with the pool episode where Marinette gets trauma, I'll mention other things that I haven't seen anyone else bring up. In that episode, there was a missed opportunity for GOOD writing. Like if the whole obsessive stalking thing didn't exist, it'd explain why she didn't like Chat Noir at first since he can be similar to Kim sometimes in the early seasons 😅 I don't like the fact that past Kim attempted to unalive her either when the present self didn't really do that. And the Shadybug episode is only good because the idea and name is so similar to a RUclips fanfic series I saw years ago. "Evil" Ladybug was named Shadybug and she was actually a criminal
I agree with you on this i just want to point out kim wasnt trying to hurt or kill her he was just trying to scare her and she tripped pff the diving board. Its still messed up but i don't want people thinking kim is psychopath.
Hey! Good to see a new video from you. I was wondering, how were you able to use 7-10 second clips from the show with no editing on the audio without getting copyrighted? (I’m always open to learning more about copyright so I’m all ears. 😊)
I just... do it really most content id picks up MUSIC if its over 5 seconds but clips of people talking can be anywhere between 10- 15 and not get caught so ibtend to stay in or around that if i can. I can get better/ longer results if i cut the clips up and remove pauses. The system is easy at catching unbroken shots but if the camera cuts it has a harder time iding the content. Does that make sense?
![Lets redesign Adrien Agreste!!! [x5]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vps7m5ahD7c/mqdefault.jpg)
I'll NEVER forgive Astruc for bassicely ignoring Adrien in the finale when he was the HEART of the conflict, for Gabriel's ( inconsistent) motivation, and the worst is that Astruc said on Twitter that he'll treat Adrien even worse from now on. And that REALLY annoys me.
Why though what did this kid do to him
@@ThinkBoxChris I honestly thought it was that joke that Thomas hates blond people (Chloe if you didn't get who the other character i was refering to was), but has funny has that meme is, it doesn't work has an explanation since Rose is blond and she is a miraculous holder, and Felix is blond and he got a redemption arc. So honestly I am not sure what characters he actually cares about, since he seems to flip a switch on which character is worth caring about tbh.
@malikpierre-louis3343 what he hates is being told his characters are recived differently then he wants them to be
@@ThinkBoxChris That works too honestly.
That's why the movie's finale is far far better.
I hate derision so much, lol. They try to make a point for All the chloe defenders, by stating that "Chloe's Trauma doesn't justify her bad behaviour, stop defending her" but then that's the episode that.. tries justifying marinette's bad behaviour with Trauma.. come on, seriously?
Omg how did i not make thst connection, thats hilarious when you put it like that, like what the hell man
At this point I'm just waiting for people making a fanfic about Chloe realizing she's in a show and fighting her creator ASTRUC where it's about a man vs god scenario and she is understanding herself why she acts like that even when she don't wanna act like a bitch
Like it's an interesting story
@dangdongtatoy3747 ooh that sounds like an intresting idea
honestly I think its even weird because what was the point? adrien was already not friends with chloe due to the oey aspect and has never appriached fixing that since the falling out side adrien dropping chloe again was a rehash that added nothing. the kim aspect felt weird as well when kim hasnt been into chloe since season1/2. he's had a girlfriend since than and mari has trusted kim with a miraculous..heck master fu did to where they had him scare her with spiders when HE is scared of spiders and didnt even make him that apologetic. was it to make adrien look unhinged and crazy for almost catacysming kim even though adrien paniced about hitti9ng hawkmoth the VILLIAN with the power before? like it just makes previous epsodes weird as hell when mari has strait up combined forced with chloe..she wast alwyas happy about it but girl kiterally joined forced with her to handle kagami. episodes HINGE on chloe being redeemable to some degree where mari had to learn even people who suck are complex and have their issues but CAN change if given the right direction.
yet here they have chloe SO bad I don't understand how mari was able to stand up to chloe at all in origins....
like MAYBE its suppoused to point that mari was interested in jokey guys like kim before to try to set up a better basis for secert feelings for chat noir but its just ODD.
makes even less sense when the whole point is that mari and adrien reflect eachothers flaws..both of their biggest isses stem from how they handle things and how they handle things are yhe opposite of eachother. Adrien showcases what happens if your TOO forward with your feelings. when you flirt and joke with your feelings and express them all the time(no matter if they are sincere) means that people might not take your feelings that seriously or even when you just expressing it because you ike them anddont expect them to like you back they could still feel pressure and be upset at it.
while mari shows what happens if you hold back too much and that being intense without them knowing it isnt better..it just means you wont be called ot and wont realize when your crossing a line of being creepy and how being too shy could stop them and you from REALLY getting to know them. how you cant properly get your feelings across to contrast adrien who is actually better as getting his interest across..while mari often backtracked.
@@dangdongtatoy3747That reminds me of the Korean series Extraordinary You.
Hey, if they wanted to acknowledge Marinette's stalking, have someone in the show call her out and she'll learn what she's been doing was wrong. You know, some character growth?
Yeah no i agree, but they clearly didn't want her to learn from it so they just wrote it out and honestly im fine with it because st least its over
That whole paragraph was grammatically problematic but I get what you're trying to say.
@@ajstudios9210 Fair but thank you
@@ThinkBoxChris They didn't want to because how dare we say anything about about Thomas's daught... I mean the protagonist
@thexecutor8730 pretty much yeah
I really wish Luka had stayed. I feel like he’d be Adrien’s inside help. Kinda like how Marinette had Alya. Really missed opportunity!
Even the plot device gets wasted. How is this show so pathetic?
omg thisss. astruc, when i catch u astruc 😔🤜
Do it man 👍🏻@@muui41
Bro the way I’m making a Fic with this concept rn
@@PanicBasedRiotYay!
The finale ... made it single handily unwatchable
Yep just like game of thrones
I remember when it was leaked online and people thought it was a bad, off season april fool's joke.
@@ThinkBoxChris I liked the finale, for a few reasons and hated it for other
I liked the finale, because it was nice to finally see heroes from the specials finally being relevant in some way, it also introduced some foreshadowing that Alya might wield the Black Cat Miraculous at some point, plus there was just Gimmi who was an absolute DELIGHT of animation
Then we have the stuff I hated, which is just Gabriel. No further explanation required, and Lila somehow getting the Butterfly Miraculous, like...The fuck? And the wish which still makes no sense....
This finale was just bizarre but it certainly had way more potential than the writers allowed
I don’t think the ending is bad, but I don’t think it’s good either. To me, it doesn’t make it unwatchable, but I do see where you’re coming from.
To me, it's almost as if the writers were unable to break the status quo of the show because they were scared people wouldn't watch it anymore. So, they always go back to square one, and the pacing goes very slowly. It is a shame when you see all the possibilities and stories the show could have told, especially considering the number of characters.
Yeah honestly the pacing is what killed this, it needs to go faster
This is a problem with Jeremy Zag-led shows. see: Power Players and Ghostforce.
Yes, and they tried to cramp everything in the last season and specifically in the last episode. And now they're even changing the animation. I just wish they were more consistent
Remember, it took seven years to get to the finale. That’s probably enough time to make an independent mascot horror game, a free world game or probably four seasons of an independent web cartoon.
But not enough to make a video game about murdering sexualized teenagers, all for a boy who is definitely not the Developer's self insert
@pokeystick5952 im sorry what?
@@ThinkBoxChris I think they’re referring to Yandere Simulator.
@genreproductions2706 oh right thar... thing exists i keep forgetting
@@ThinkBoxChris Everyone does
If the finale basically deleting Adrian not showing of how this bad this show and Thomas are at feminism idk what else
You have a point there
@@ThinkBoxChris Not to mention that Marinette quickly became Gabriel's accomplice for lying to Adrien and everyone else about Gabriel helping Ladybug defeat Trash-moth.
@hdnallstars4471 yeah thats also true, which im still angry at
@@ThinkBoxChris I wish Adrien finds out and breaks up with Mari
@hdnallstars4471 no that shouldnt be the breaking point because they just got togeather itd feel cheap. Theyd need time apart, but still they should get past that
Another issue derision brings to the table is how Marinette's stalker tendecies are put into a different context. Prior to s5, Marinette did those things for comedic reasons. The writers had stated multiple times that Marinette's behavior and constant failing to get closer to Adrien was for shits n giggles (even though nobody found it funny, it ruined the character for lots of people), only to later reveal that everything was a god damn trauma response.
If we pretend that this was planned from the start (which it very obvioulsy wasn't), that means the writers willingly used someone's trauma for unfunny jokes, which is super messed up.
That, that right there is the crux of the issue. It also proves my point they're making this shit up as they go
Another problem is that Marinette Dupain-Pain did not have those "traumas" when she was dating Luka, even her relationship with him was more believable, honest and romantic. @@ThinkBoxChris
Historians have noted that Joan of Arc consistently referred to herself as "the maiden" ("la Pucelle" in French), clearly identifying as a woman. Eyewitnesses also described her as very feminine, with her bodyguard Jehan d’Aulon and others commenting on her beauty and shapeliness. Her so-called "male clothing" was actually practical military attire-armor to protect her from arrows and long leather hip-boots to prevent abrasion while riding. Until she joined the army, she wore a dress, as confirmed by two soldiers who escorted her to Chinon to see Charles VII and suggested she adopt a soldier’s outfit for practicality.
During the campaigns, Joan returned to wearing a dress whenever possible. However, in prison, she continued to wear her military outfit to safeguard herself; she used the cords on this clothing to lace the boots, trousers, and tunic together into one piece, preventing her guards from undressing her during rape attempts. The bailiff, Jehan Massieu, reported that after Joan was forced by the court to switch to a dress, they maneuvered her into a "relapse into cross-dressing" by taking away the dress and giving her the soldier’s outfit again, leaving her no choice but to wear it. The judge then condemned her to death for this supposed relapse.
The notion that Joan of Arc was transgender is a misconception based on the incorrect belief that she consistently wore male clothing as part of a male identity. This is contradicted by her own statements and her persistent use of the term "the maiden" to describe herself.
Huh intresting everything i found pointed the opposite way, and i looked for a good hour or 2
@@ThinkBoxChris truth be told, most of that research could had been influenced by modern politics so if I was you I would be a little skeptical
@rexturbo10 i mean everything can be i dont think we should discount it espically when stuff as warly as the 1930s suggests it. You have to realize that historians remove lgbt stuff from history and we typically find out about it after the fact so much so its a joke and even has a song written about it
@@ThinkBoxChrisWith all respect, while I certainly see where you are coming from, I also think you need to be careful of confirmation bias in your research. Even modern day scholars may have their own agendas and biases. That's why I recommend researching primary sources on top of reading commentary from scholars. I believe we have quite a few peices of writing preserved from Joan of Arc, and from just a quick read over some of her letters, she uses the pronoun of "her", constantly refers to herself as a maid, and furthermore refers to herself as a virgin multiple times. Granted this was a quick read through of some letters. I'm pretty sure there is a lot more of Joan de Arc's writing saved that may contain further relevant information. However, my general point is that when it comes to making strong claims about a historical figure, primary sources should also be a part of the research.
@irynda i understand that, and ill do better but in tjis case i did what i thought was enough based on the evidence i was shown. I looked at several articals and essays on the topic, somone using a certain pronoun in a letter is certsinly a damning statement devoid of context but we also have to think who was it to how far the idea of what trans was or even gender back then. Im not saying there wasnt diversity but its not impossible to assume the catholic state that Europe was at the time didnt really encurage that kind of language even in written form. And given who Joan was she probably didnt have access to a lot texts on the matter, so again i see where you coming from but its not exsactly as cut and dry as they used this pronoun in a letter being sent to someone that might be read by multiple people who could kill her if they saw it. Theres things to consider beyond that you know?
This makes me so glad I stopped halfway in between. I do not like how Felix gets redemption because... he straight up kills everyone and gets redeemed, but Chloe doesn't even come close to being that bad and she's irredeemable.
Exactly I agree a rush redemption that doesn't add up especially since he literally cause hawkmoth to get the power to run amuck in Paris
Chloe deserves to be part of a better show like Infinity Train, Amphibia, Mob Psycho 100, Inside Job, Final Space or BoJack Horseman.
I don't get why people take that so seriously... He didn't KILL anyone. The fact that he was even able to reverse the effects and bring everyone back strongly implies they weren't dead. Its like putting everyone in stasis or backing them up onto a computer. Yet people say its genocide???
@@lasercraft32 Death has been reversed before in Miraculous Ladybug. And regardless, it doesn't change what he did, he acted like a child throwing a fit. Even Chloe wasn't that bad
to this day i'm still not convinced that felix x kagami isn't just kagami having stockholm syndrome
I don't think Chloé will get redeemed. Especially since they retconned in a entire origin where.
1. Her mom being abusive doesn't mean shit.
2. She and Sabrina hurt Marinette for shits and giggles.
Like hell Astruc literally jokes that she and Audrey will fucking die in a plane crash, I personally think he wants us to hate her like he did since S1.
It’s really tragic honestly
1. Felix🗿
Reminder that Marinette is lying about Adrien's ABUSER. Which falls squarely into abuse apologism. Therefore her reasons for lying are irrelevant because there is no excuse for abuse apologism. Also it's not about her.
I totally agree
I, and another RUclipsr known as Miraculously Gory, also known as MG for short, both agree that Derision is just so that Thomas has an excuse to make Marinette the victim instead of the stalker she CLEARLY has become.
Yeah thats just whats happened. If yall want we can discuss this more i have a twitter and discord
I remember seeing Derision for the first time and being disgusted at how they were trying to justify her trauma. Even my mom immediately picked on it so quickly. It was a hard episode to finish. The worst part is when I searched on other people's reactions on the episode. They immediately defended Marinette and started hating Chloe and Kim a lot. It was really bizarre for me. So when MG and 2 other youtubers started talking about Derision's bs I was really happy. It felt like my mom and me were the only ones who thought that for a long time.
@zenazinn6144 yeah i remeber when this came out twitter was fucking insane to the point that people were trying to make her crimes nonexistent
And it sacrificed Kim's character progression by doing so 😢
At least make present Kim feel remorse, it isn't even that big of an ask.
What make it worse is that Thomas said Chloe's trauma doesn't excuse her bad behavior but yet.... it's fine with Marinette???
Talk about double standard
SS5 made this show irredeemable in my eyes. It will never be saved no matter what they do now.
And thats the sad thing season 5 has a lot of good things and beats in there but its whole is weaker than its parts
@@ThinkBoxChris oh yeah! I’m glad they went somewhere, yet that somewhere lead me to more insanity. That being said, glad you’re back MLB wise. I know I’m loving this video when you said Derision is god awful. A true man of truth you are.
@@MGory828Good to see you here, MG!
Don't worry, they will get your hopes up again... then season 5 it again.
i hope they make season 4.1 and it retcons season 4 and 5
I'm so glad you made a video on this season. Like yes, this season started off getting me excited for what's to come with some of its plotlines, just for it to completely crash in the end and lead the buildup to nothing. There was so many good elements that were finally tackled but also fell flat on other elements. It also feels like it took way too long for the show to progress to where it's currently at. The finale also made me really made me not hopeful for season 6, and honestly if the identity reveal doesn't happen in season 6, and Lila's motivations and backstory isn't up to par for the way they've been building her up, I'm going to stop watching.
Yes exsactly thats the best way to put it
Agreed.
I stopped watching after the season 3 finale man this shit be crazy
I like how when Evil CatNoir changes his outfit and hair when he turns good, the hair is an orange tan color, which makes him look like a Lion.
That's a really nice touvh
мерчиндайз!💰
I got so excited over bunny noir (also because the outfit is good. You're right, the kid needs accent colors) because hey! Chat noir gets a new unification! And it's good! And he uses it effectively! It got my hopes up that maybe they're slowly trying to balance the two heroes, or atleast give Chat more time to shine. And I held out on that stupid hope until the finale, because SURELY Chat Noir would play a massive role in the finale. SURELY. There is NO WAY for him not to be in it. And then the writers found a way and I stopped watching the show ever since (except the Paris special, cause the concept was interesting and i lowkey like it, despite having some issues with it).
14:45
Not just that but her dad is neglectful and corrupt. Both of her parents suck. Melyne still had a good parent in her life. So that’s already an unfair comparison.
Exsactly thank you
Not to mention that people have different coping mechanisms to parental abandonment. And Thomas Astruc had the gall to invalidate the feelings of that particular trauma.
EXACTLY
They completely bulldozed Adrien's character after season 3. What happened to him? Like-- you love someone who kisses wax statues and passionately lusts over you?
Worst thing, Marinette ALWAYS gets away with her crimes. And in the ending, that happens too. She gets with Adrien.
Kagami, Chloe, and Adrien are all just wasted potential. Astruc should've made the whole story focusing on these three more than Marinette. Why? Because children can actually find these few characters *relatable* instead of learning from a character who has no morals and no interesting personality.
Tbh I actually loved how Chloe was shown as a flawed teenager because that gave her room to improve, which she did try to do and they executed it so darn well in the season where she first became Queen Bee. But then later on, she becomes "evil" again and Astruc claims that she's irredeemable. Huh, I never thought that a literal minor that had been neglected by her parents, spoiled in an unhealthy way, and was never shown proper parental love from her own mother, is a born villain. Sure, nothing can condone her bad actions like almost killing passengers by misusing her bee miraculous, but does this mean she can't improve? No, of course not.
I agree that those characters are wasted potential but so is Marinette. She's a fictional character. She doesn't have control over how her character is written and never had control. She had the potential to be a better character, but the writers chose to write her the way she is.
@@faragi_dc But if she was written any other way way it automatically wouldn't be Marinette. It would be different character with the same name and maybe design; not the same character.
With this logic, all badly written characters are wasted potential, even if they had NO potential to begin with.
As a person with BPD and other mental illnesses something in me alarms me of a person (most likely Thomas Astruc) with with a mental health disorder, because this idealization and black and white thinking isn't normal that he has to have to write this story like this and also his comments you have to think like that (my first impuls with things like that would also be to react like him, but I know that this isn't the right thing and that this thoughts aren't the truth).
Thank you for calling out the puppeteer 2 scene! That scene still actually makes me get chills. The kind where you feel like something is going to burn you! Aka the bad kind. I’m very thankful you aren’t afraid to call out the bullshit in this show!
Same as I. Although I’m pretty sure…Astruc saw my work, and maybe…you know? Hates me. I did slander his daughter for a good hour.
@MGory828 oh shit you too? Its a fun club to be in isnt it?
@@ThinkBoxChris Only 3 VE’s I made, yet people love my work. I also make people love my brutal honesty
Have Chat Noir find out about it. Or have Adrien find out about it via Gabriel. After that, Marinette finds out that Adrien is Chat Noir, and she is apprehensive about telling him who she is now because of it.
I think that vould work
About the Chloe backtracking thing- there's a rumor that the reason she backtracked was because the episodes where she was honest with ladybug and actually broke down and seemed to be getting better were made while the maker of the show was gone. When he came back he was mad about it because apparently Chloe is based off his childhood bully. So he kind of just made them back track because he didn't want a redemption for her.
Oh im aware haha very bog roumor
I had a childhood bully, but do know that they aren't bad people per se, even with me having BPD. I think he has to have a problem with even worse black and white thinking than I have and shouldn't write anything while not while he doesn't aknowlage all his problems.
This is one of those cases where the writers CAN write good stores but often CHOOSE not too for some bs reason
Youre not wrong
being given banger after banger adrien moments was so fucked up of them because it made his absence in the finale feel like being beaten to death by chats baton IM SICK. based on prior seasons i went in with the sad but resigned assumption that he would have nothing to do in the finale but then we were treated to actually insane amounts of character development for adrien that treated him like the secondary lead HE ALWAYS WAS SAID TO HAVE BEEN. and it genuinely gave me hope the show was working up to having him actually contribute to the defeat of hawkmoth in a meaningful way. i thought we would get TEARS. i wanted him to see gabe and show us the climax of all that pent up rage and honestly if they had kept the one use abilities it would’ve gone crazy because imagine chat seeing who hawkmoth had been this whole time and absolutely fucking losing it. just wailing on gabe in a blind rage and even going so far as to cataclysm him again. and then timing out mid beating but still. going. HELLOOOOOOOO. we could even have gotten the whole power up thing when mari combines the 2 if adrien is out of commission after that (either sentimonster controlled or just straight up catatonic (no pun intended)) and we could’ve just gotten the explanation of “oh yeah the timeout is cancelled out when you have the literal 2 halves of the god of everything fused together” so she could’ve kept spamming her ults and it would’ve honestly made more sense than them suddenly developing adult brains at the age of 15 or whatever. like their prefrontal cortexes are still mushy as hell idgaf what they’re saying about growing up.
like all of his internal conflict where he regretted cataclysming monarch bc he’s “still a person” combined w his restraint w damacles even after all he went through was based on logic and empathy and his strong moral compass. but i really do think the (hypothetical) moment he sees monarch detransform into gabe he would cease to see him as a person deserving of his empathy and restraint. at least at the time. like the culmination of all gabe had done to him as a son and chat as a hero and what they had both done to mari and ladybug as well i don’t think based on what we’ve seen more recently he would ever view gabe as redeemable. and he sure as fuck wouldn’t be stupid enough to DETRANSFORM wWITHIN MIRACULOUS GRABBING DISTANCE OF THE ACTUAL SCOUNDREL AND LIAR OF A MAN THAT IS GABRIEL AGRESTE . gabe literally could’ve even gotten his win and somwhow snagged the miraculouses and reset the world but it would feel more like the pathetic cowardly way out that it was bc he was truly running away and yet continuing to make himself a martyr. the identity reveal would be earned and i think having mari there to be with adrien as they both realize they’ve always been each other’s rock and seeing this new dynamic and navigation of trauma would’ve been SUCH A GOOD SETUP FOR THE THE NEXT SEASON BECAUSE IT EXPLORES THEIR CHARACTERS AND DYNAMIC AND DEEP LOVE FOR EACH OTHER WHICH IS ALL WE EVER WANTED
im slamming my head into a concrete floor I HATE WHEN THIS SHOW IS GOOD BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT IT ALWAYS HAD THE CAPACITY TO BE!!!!!!!!!! AND WASNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ripping up drywall and eating it throwing my body across the ocean doing multiple backflips and crashing and dying I HATE THIS SHOW I LOVE THIS SHOW I MOURN WHAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN
@@maliaisboringthis just encompassed my whole entire feeling of this show
Derision must be the worst miraculous episode. Yeez, simpleman is better than it. Yes. I think simpleman is better than derision. Atleast that episode wasn't meant to be an important episode.
First off. Marinette's flashback makes no sense. She said she wouldn't fall in love with a friend of Chloé and make sure to know everything about them. Yet she falls for Adrien. THE SAME DAY THEY MET! Then there's Luka. She doesn't make sure to know his schedule, she didn't stalk him to another country, she didn't break into his room. And yet she's okay thinking about dating him? Just no.
Second is Kim, or as I call him this episode, Tim. Because I refuse to think this is the same person. Kim was never heartless. He's dumb yes. But not heartless. Him saying Marinette couldn't take a joke when it clearly traumatized her is not something Kim would do. Then him saying lovestruck that Chloé is the most beautiful girl in the world. INFRONT OF HIS GIRLFRIEND! Like what the fuck!? He could have been seen feeling guilty before getting akumatized. But nope.
Now Chloé. Thomas can go screw himself. He made Chloé in the flashback act more evil than in season one. Where the fuck did that come from!? Oh I know. It's because Thomas hate Chloé with a burning passion. Just. Fudge this man.
Fr like even Gabriel got a redemption and not Chloe she's just a kid!!! And Gabriel literally killed plp and so much more and he still gets redeemed?!? Like that statue thaatt was with ladybug and cat noir and now it's Gabriel? No just no...
@@simply_iris11 exactly! Thomas mean to tell us that you can be redeemed even if you're a terrorized. But you're irredeemable if you're an abused teenager who actually showed signs for wanting to change?
He don't know how to write a redeemeble character at all
I HATE the fact that Thomas Astruc totally ignored catnoir in the finale like wtf bro I thought they would fight him together and catnoir deserves to know that his father was hawkmoth. The fact that they praised him at the end and made a whole statue made me furious I don’t want it to end like that like at least the movie they found out. ALSO Chloe’s redemption… we need that they did her so dirty he even confirmed in the next season she’ll stay the same no redemption I hate this.
I CACKLED at the "my suit has a really weird effect on you" line 🤣
i genuinely thought the ending was a parallel world where his dad died in the past instead of his mum as a result of the wish, until i saw that stupid statue! i was temporarily so invested in what the show would do with parallel worlds
That would have been so much better as a twist
38:15
funnily enough, stronger together is actually written around a leitmotif from the soundtrack of the show, under the name of "cat noir's broken heart". it played way back in glaciator when ladybug stood cat noir up, and then got incorporated into the movie.
Huh thats actually intresting and incorporats in my point about the light motife
46:14
Shadybug: That's a stupid name😒
Betterfly: SEE, I TOLD YOU IT WAS STUPID! WHY DO I KEEP LISTENING TO YOU!?!?!?😡
AU Nino: I don't know😅
Somethibg that frustrated me was the sentimonster reveal of Adrien/Felix. Fans theorized it, but the hints were here and there, almost as if coincidental and they just wanted to please the fans with the reveal.
Thats exsactly how i felt about it, it wasnt intenional but they saw fans say it and went "yeah that lets do that" because since when do sentimonsters age
@@ThinkBoxChris And it really meant nothing, sympathizing Felix (an underrated villain) at the last minute in contrast to Chloe or Sabrina, and the finale still invalodated Adrien and gaslit him. The movie, while extremely flawed and rushed the arc, was much better.
@OpticalSorcerer yeah youve got a point
I could buy felix being a senti, adrien _maybe_ for the duality, but kagami??!! Hell no.
27:57 "His wife and her girlfriend" this sent me and idk why
Glad someone found that funny
@@ThinkBoxChris if you watched london special then you should know that's not Emilie
@spagooba215 the London special that aired... after i made this?
@@ThinkBoxChris no no I know you made this before London special...what I meant is this comment has one month ago and it has been more than a month so I was like "surely this guy knows this by now that Emilie is still de@d"
@spagooba215 oh yeah no people have explained that to me countless times
29:21 Plan for perpetual motion machine:
1: Get A Kiwami
2: Tell yourself you A beeg boi
3: Congratulations, your Yakuza Kiwami 2 now has infinite heat.
Don't you just love how back in season 1, Marinette's excuse for humiliating Lila is that she doesn’t put up with liars, especially when they're lies about her
But at the end of season five, she lies to the whole world that Gabriel helped her defeat Monarch, which is also a lie about her. So she hates when someone else lies about her, but it's fine when she lies about herself
If I wrote that scene I would’ve made it so that she steps in for Lila’s own good. Picture this Marinette thinks that Lila’s lies will eventually get back to hawk moth and he might go after her so she humiliates her in front of everyone not just Adrian so everyone knows it wasn’t true and Lila is no longer at risk of being either followed or captured. But that’s just me
@Meamery Honestly, sounds better than what we got
Marinette is astruc and his ex's fictional love child. The ending makes perfect sense now.
Youd be suprised how much it explains
Source ??
@christ5431 go check his twitter
@@ThinkBoxChris oh😯😯
i also just remembered the episode where the spaceship gets sad🤣
23:40 Apple employees, you're tew funny😭😭
That finale was a disaster, on the same level as Star Vs
Facts! Absolute facts!
Good watch. I disagree on felix and kagami being good because to me it felt super rushed and a bit awkward/forced (they could have been friends for a while first imo) but everything else is pretty spot on. I still think it's tragic they just killed off Gabe though, since he's such a compelling character and it also just puts Adrien in an even worse position both as a character emotionally and in terms of his character development going forward. The idea of season 6 right now makes me I think the most nervous I've ever been for the direction of this show.
I really dont mind them getting together fast given their personalities are very blunt and to the point so it makes sense, plus im just sick of waiting for characters to get together. If you like someone asking them out is pretty common irl why make an audience wait when you can just get to the relationship?
i only watch this show with my sister, i cant remember most of what happened but i do remember we made fun of the finale alot.
Honestly i can drink to that, might as well find your own joy
Not us ignoring Felix stalking kagami
Its not really stalking when he more rescued her from her shit life. Marinette stalking was bad because it was for reason pther thsn a sick joke. Here its more a white knight if anything that feels earned since we spend so little time with them before this its actuslly aloud to be good
@@ThinkBoxChrisDude, don't play semantics here, Felix stated, and I quote, "I know you. *I've been following you non-stop."* That's objectively stalking. If you follow someone without their knowledge or consent, that's stalking. Just because the show doesn't play it for *laughs* doesn't mean the show isn't casually displaying stalking behavior with its relationships. And "rescued her from her shit life"? And you know how he began rescuing her from her mother, who violates Kagami's autonomy as a person? By *kidnapping her,* violating Kagami's autonomy as a person. That is not okay, two wrongs don't somehow make a right. Tomoe is a bad mother but that doesn't suddenly make Felix's actions towards Kagami okay under any circumstances. You don't treat someone who's been abused and controlled their whole lives by actively undermining their own agency, that's beyond messed up actually. This is a criticism the main ship suffers from due to how Marinette controls the knowledge Adrien has of his dead abusive father, outright lying to him under the pretense of making him happy and it applies to Felix and Kagami here. I know you like Felix and Kagami as a pairing but that shouldn't blind you from actually seeing the problematic ways the show handles the relationship. This show has an unhealthy obsession of including stalking and other problematic stuff into its relationships, which is just horrible because this show is aimed at *children* who might get horrible lessons from the relationships portrayed in this show.
@ryancarson6962 dude literally took her from her monther gave her the ring to her freedom and made it so she felt heard and listened to. Her life isn't exsavtly secrect im not defending by saying hes not stalking full stop theres more to it then that. Marinette is actively following adrien for no reason beyond her felings for her. Felix legit only "stalked" her that morning, and i like them but im not so blind by that to not see how it can be bad but based on scope im more indifferent to that. Marinette is bad because its constant and manipulative felix only helped kagami and gave her knowledge i fail to see one insident of following someone for their benifit long term vs years of actual federal crimes being committed are comparable
@@ThinkBoxChrisActually he stated he's been following her since the day he laid eyes on her...
@@julietchristopher7578At least Felix apologized for stalking Kagami. Marinette never did for stalking Adrien.
i genuinely thought for the longest time that they would end miraculous with them getting together at the same time as the reveal cause the writers always seemed like cowards who couldn't properly write a relationship up to the standards they set, seeing as they spent almost nine years teasing them getting together. the intriuge of the reveal and relationship dissipated more every season, and it peaked mid season two
AHHHHHHHB YOUR BACK!!!!!!
You don't know how long I've missed your videos so much
Aww thank you sorry for the break collage cicked my ass
27:58
Emily was not resurrected, Gabriel made a wish to be reunited with her in the afterlife
In this scene we are shown not Emily and Natalie, we are shown Natalie and Emily's sister whose name I don't remember
P.S. Natalie and Gabriel never dated, Gabriel didn't really care about Natalie, he was just using her but Natalie had feelings for him, probably
wait didn’t Natalie die tho or did Gabriel exchange places with her?
I will say this. Since from what I've heard about season 6. Its a time skip or a mini time skip. Which could really work. They could add in new things, kinda a "fresh start". I do like season 5 and how it was written (although, I do have some problems with it.) I could see they tried with this one, at least. So, hoping that it's going to be good. Still mad that it took FIVE seasons to get here though. Also, side note. If Lila becomes the new Hawkmoth... they should use Felix more often or somehow take him off the show for a while. Given that Felix figured out the last Hawkmoths identity, rather quickly... which... how did they made the side character figure everything out BEFOFE the heroes? Add to the fact that he did this in like less then five episodes 😅😅 He's a smart character, which they (the characters) should make good use of him. Given that Felix is now on the heroes side now... kinda wished he was more of an antihero but what do I know. Knowing that he is a smart character, could give a bit of trouble. Because realistically, he could solve it rather quickly. So they might have to give an excuse as to why he isn’t here. Or make him go dumber as the story goes.... I hope that isn’t the case 😭
Season 5 is Tomas astrucs going “ I hate Chloe and you shoudl too” really disappointing
This whole show is wasted potential.
Thomas really tried to please the fans by "filling plot holes" or whatever, he kind of just made it worse. I was actually really shocked when the special was actually good.
Right its so good, shame the rest is so bad. The special works because its a self contained plot
16:00 I do have a theory, but it probably isn’t true by the way, so Chloe character assassination was apparently something to writers couldn’t really fix Because miraculous has story written up to season eight by this point, so there is a lot of story that already exist. But I think that all the stuff this season with Lila manipulating Chloe I think Lila was supposed to take that role set her up as the next villain, but Thomas changed it because he was pissed off about the fans reaction to the Chloe character assassination
Also, to be fair, it also could’ve been written like this. but even if it was written like this, I feel like you could still have changed it in the way so you didn’t upset the fan base
Adrien not being allowed to participate in the ending really ticked me off.
I remember in the comments of your previous video, I mentioned how little of the Chinese/Asian aesthetic are tied to Marinette,the actual Asian character. Well, the same can be said for the plot. Marinette has no ties to the main plot. She has no relation to the main villain. That's *Adrien's* role. And yet she gets this final battle with someone who never really played a big role in her life up until she got her Miraculous, and even then, his role was in the background. The finale should have been *Adrien's* time to shine, or they could take out Gabriel as a *team.* Instead, they leave him in the dark like a child.
Honestly, this is my biggest issue with the show: One main character has ties to everything going on, and the writers do so little with him. While the other main character has no ties to *anything* going on, and yet the writers cram *everything* they can into her story.
This could have been an easy fix. How about this? In season one, Marinette has no idea how or why she has her Miraculous. Then, in season two, we find out that Marinette and Master Fu were related in some way. Maybe Master Fu is Marinette's great-great-something grandfather, making her a descent of that Guardian order thing Master Fu was a part of. THIS WAY, Marinette actually has ties to the main plot, just in the opposite direction, and she's not just "the special one." Guarding the Miraculous could become something of a family honor to her, and she hates Hawkmoth for disrespecting it.
Like Hawkmoth has gone after Marinette's friends and family before, but it's never felt *personal* before. With this backstory, things can finally feel personal, and Marinette gets a real connection to her heritage and the plot.
And the sad part is this,and a lot of the main plot writing issues in the show could've been fixed with one simple change: Have Mari be an intern at Gabriel's company and have her be the apprentice to Gabriel in fashion design.
I know that because of Thomas being incompetent,this perfect setyp would've been screwed somehow,but it's so simple,that I'm confused they've never thought of it.
@infinitedreamer9359 No, what's really sad is the writers were SO CLOSE to doing that in the season two episodes where we meet Chloé's mother. The solution was very simple. Just have Audrey stay in Paris at the START, and Marinette could intern alongside her, thus giving Marinette some level of access to Gabriel without him suspecting she's Ladybug. They could have worked with this.
@@frankielovejoy9928 I prefer the Mari internship/Gabe mentor idea because it solves a LOT of the main plot's issues in one go,provided the writers and/or Thomas were competent(which at this point they've proven they aren't but oh well)
1. It gives Mari some sorely needed development by focusing on why and how she wants to be a fashion designer,a trait which had no focus after S1.
2. It puts Mari and Adrien closer to each other earlier,which means that they can interact with each and develop their relationship with a better pacing.After all,Adrien is a model for his fathers company,so it's not crazy that they'd see each fairly often.
3, Mari being an intern and then being an apprentice to Gabriel in fashion as their relationship develops means that Mari now has more of a reason to be in the main plot Meaning that it hits harder when she eventually finds that that Gabe is Hawkmoth.
4.It gives a good way for Gabe to be a bit humanized,while not feeling contrived. Have Gabe see the potential in Mari to be a good fashion designer. Have him grow to be a mentor to her and in some ways maybe he see her like a daughter and him a proud parent when she takes in his lessons. The man runs a fashion label,so surely he does have passion for the craft and respects others who are the same right?
5. Mari being an apprentice to Gabe could easily serve as a catalyst for Adrien's own development in being his own person and not accept Gabe's abuse. He starts seeing the difference in Gabe's treatment between himself and Mari and that cause him to question things. Could also serve as conflict between the two.
As for Gabe suspecting something? That's easy to deal with as magic is a thing in MLB. Have Fu give her some kind of charm that like W.I.T.C.H's Astral Drops. Or if not that, just have Alya be brought in a bit earlier and have her sub in Mari in the cases where her leaving would look suspicious.
@@infinitedreamer9359 That could totally work. It frustrates me how these ideas were staring the writers in the face and they did nothing with them.
@@frankielovejoy9928 This setup is simple to justify,the ideas were in place, and helps give a lot more of a solid foundation to the plot,I'm surprised too that the writers didn't think about using it.
Then again,I wouldn't be surprised if in the beginning it WAS brought up by writers to Thomas,but he shut it down.
Thomas really is to me the real cause behind MLB's awful writing because the man's in a position where he can veto ideas he doesn't like and Thomas being who he is,he often wants to the show to go HIS way to the detriment of the quality of the story.
Thomas really needs to be put in a position where he doesn't have as much influence over the shows development, because he's proven that he can't be trusted with how he's ran his shown into the ground over the years.
I’m surprised people still ship Adrienette. Post-puppeteer2 Marinette just seems predatory.
Think about it. Adrien is a sheltered kid who struggles to stand up for himself and shows signs of autism. He’s never known anything other than loneliness and neglect. He’s the perfect person to manipulate. Marinette gets a crush on him, then proceeds to stalk him to find more info about him. She tries to get him to like her using the info she knows about him. It’s just manipulation.
Several other behaviors she has also mirror manipulation tactics.
- She isolates him by separating him from his father, Chloe, Kagami, Lila, and anyone he might be friends with besides Nino. She also spends more and more time with him, making sure he barely has any connections outside of her
- She tries to make his decisions for him, which makes it harder for him to stand up for himself and get out of the relationship
- She lies to him to get out of bad situations. In Puppeteer 2, she tries to cover up her being weird with Adrien when she thought he was a wax statue. Already creepy behavior, but even worse when she can’t fess up to it.
- Notice how she does nothing wrong and is never called out for her actions? That’s because the story is told from her perspective. Every episode revolves around her and other characters’ thoughts are almost never explored. She believes she is the victim, even when that’s not what her behavior shows. She justifies her behavior by telling herself it’s because of her trauma
- She gives him excessive gifts which makes him overlook her stalking. Very similar to love bombing
- The stalking. She invades his privacy, then uses the information to manipulate him. She uses his schedule to make plans to set up the narrative that she’s this amazing person, uses info to plan gifts for his special days to make herself look good, and she uses his weaknesses to propel herself (standing up to his father which she knows will make herself look better)
- She pretends to listen to him, then ignores him. When Adrien tells her it’s best to leave Lila alone, she pretends to listen at first and doesn’t do anything, but then later makes a plan to expose her for everything. It makes the illusion of trust, but then she goes against his wishes when he forgets about it
There’s probably even more problematic stuff if you dig deeper
Marinette gets better in the later seasons but it doesn’t excuse her past behavior as she hasn’t been shown to learn from it, and would probably do it again when the time calls. I don’t get how anyone could support their relationship
Edit: I realized that some of these points aren’t valid, however this ship still grosses me out
And this is why we ignore canon and I prefer fanfiction sometimes.
Oh the ladynoire from that alternate universe was actually possessed by Mikunette which is why her design is different and she takes the initiative of taking Gabriel down, it's the same with the pv ladybug: the design is different because she possesses the ladybug of that universe.
I feel like that wasnt properly explained because it really does feel like shes following him given the first time we see her its in the scarabella universe
@@ThinkBoxChris The moment I saw pv ladybug being replaced by Mikunette I just kinda assumed that was the case and that she just posseses each Marinette like how Alya posseses each Alya since it's an akuma/kamiko rather than the miraculous traveling interdimensionally. Show don't tell yipeee
@TrickiTrickstars it really doesnt come off thst way though. And show don't tell is such a subjective thing i can show you a mechanic but if i didn't tell you how it works i might as well just dobe a magic trick. Just a simple "youll be able to follow him via your other bodies across the mulit verse would be fine" or even the other lady bug holders would be some kinda consistency rather than just assuming wed get it
@@ThinkBoxChris I'm surprised Betterfly didn't end up saying "Ladybiquity, I'm giving you the power to travel between the different versions of your civilian form of different universes" bros didn't have the budget or time for that extra lipsync 😭 If they didn't wanna do that maybe they should've shown marinette from that universe being possessed but that would've been extra work and more elaborate than the first option.
@TrickiTrickstars yes exsactly thats all it would have taken, just different versions of her getting possed would have been perfect
Paris is a hereditary monarchy in this show.
Yeah but... it shouldn't be
@@ThinkBoxChriswell if it wasn't, they wouldn't have an excuse to throw in a revolution for "symbolism"...facts like a deputy mayor, an election, and Chloé being underage just get in the way of their idiot plot
It seems the revolution must return
Trust me they would have found a way to do it its france
am i misremembering or did they literally do that this season.
honestly I'm torn on it. the thing is I THINK the reason adrien wasn't in the finally was more due to gabriel than adrien..because I THINK that Gabe had side effects from misusing the butterfly miraculous which was implied by the parallels the final battle had with collector(the whole please keepy adrien from knowing I took the book where gabriel agreed to not tell adrien in collector when mari asked where he praised her/was understanding of her coming forward even after shit hit the fan where gabe was surprisingly understanding and even answered her questions and showed vulnerabilty which echos how in the final battle marinette agrees to not tell adrien what gabriel did where she showed surprising understanding toward him). in collector not only did it have one of the best thorough apologies to adrien that the show didn't undercut to be insincere but it had a point that gabe akumatized himself without knowing if there would be side effects.
The dude has been amplifying his own negative emotions over and over again while also simplying his motive to better project in on the akuma victims so they'd add HIS goal to their goals which had nothing to do with his goal. the show has pointed out that your emotional state when using a miraculous is VERY important. master fu just wanted snacks but the peaccks sensed his inner resentment toward the guardians and went ballistic eating everything miraculous related. marinette used her charm in bubbler to seperate chloe and adrien out of jealousy(even if we knot it freed adrien to transform into chat) where it immediatley caused her powers to power down which they revealed was a safty feature for younger miraculous holders to protect them from side effects. we saw that tikki could effect mari while in the suit when tikki was going gaga for gallets as well..and they've made a point of pointing out that using multiple miraculous not only put a strain on your body but could LITERALLY drive you insane.
considering how we've see akuma victims are people who feel negatively and hurt and sad who then try to validate/get those feelings known in the worst ways no matter how valid their feelings are..where we've seen them get hyper agressive, make dumb decisions, be unable to REALLY think clearly or realize what they are doing wasn't REALLY going to fix their problem and was getting strangers and others involved which had nothing to do with their initial feelings/motives. an akuma victim can't be talked down or logied with even if they feel in control..we've seen illusions of it sometimes like with evilstrator who ditched his first motive of messing with chloe to go on a date with mari...but he was still VERY unstable and swung right back to it. akuma villians are hyper focused, get more agressive and will do things like attack people who have nothing to do with the situation to loved ones they'd never attack otherwise without a second thought even though normal them would NEVER. where SOMETIMES under certain circumstances they could be talked down a little or not attack someone who has a certain connection. like how in horrificator melanie didn't attack ivan or in santa claws the santa didn't attack adrien who had shown kindness while also showing parenst and grandparents will go after people they love under that influence without a second thought.
I think they were trying to go for the idea that due to usng his powers the wrong way Gabe had been amplifying his own negative feelings like he does with akuma victims as well as ampligfing his fixation where he starts to suffer from side effects similar to akuma victims only without a clear fix liek breaking a item.
That would help validate that gabe DID genuinely mean his feelings of wanting to save his wife for his family and that he does genuinely care while ALSO explaining the times he went so cartoonishly evil and horrible as not something to be overlooked/dismissed becuase it woud be a side effect from misusing his miraculous. it would explain the times he'd do something that has NOTHING to do with his main motive of saving the mom like causing actual destruction or in the newyork special or when he'd act odd like attacking his son when we'd all assume that gabe would not akumatize his kid or like most parents he'd feel horrified and conflicted...where its due to the amplifying of his megative emotions and the hawkmoth persona that actually takes over.
if thats the case it would explain that the times gabe finds out adrien is chat that Gabe becomes WAY worse..becuase one of the people grounding gabe to his orginal motive as civilian adrien who has nothing to do with the hawkmoth persona...which is why when he finds out its chat..due to amplifying his negative emotions over and over to fixate on battling ladybug and chat it makes teh hawkmoth persona take over and explaisn why he gets weird and cackles and get more agressive and just the WORST even though we've seen Gabe WILL hesitate when he believes adrien is in ACTUAL danger in the show where he refused to akumatized his son.
so Adrien NOT being in the final battle feels like the point was so gabe never finds out adrien is chat..which means that is why mari is actually able to use civilian adrien as a subject to actually connect and try to get through to gabriel since adrien is still associated with just gabriel's civilian side.
if this is what they were going for than gabriel being redeemable WOULD make sense since thematically te show has pointed out that the akuma villians are in fact people who are desperate and hurting who try to fix their own problems alone..but in the worst ways due to being unable to think clearly due to their negative emotions..just like how many upset people act out of emotional impulse. but that a point is these villians are in fact hurt depserate people where the way to solve the problem is to find the source of the problem is and acknowledge it..literlaly break it open(as its represented by a item) where THEN you get a chance to talk them down and get them help that they need.
the big bad guy who they thought as simply bad actually being one of the most hurt and desperate trying to solve a problem on his own the wrong way DOES work thematically in the show and COULD work with the idea that gabe fought hawkmoth...like if a akuma victim had to fight/push back on the akuma persona.
and a big factor for mari being there is mari and gabe have REALLY REALLY REALLY strong parallels throughout the show..that parallels and flaw sthey have in common don't get touche don properly enough in the show since teh shwo spent so much time trying to make you see gave as simply the worst/bad while trying to get you to see mari as the best/good. and mari is also honestly the trype t judge quickly and not be as merciful...girl holds grudges and judges quickly and is firm about her opinions until something forces her to change her mind..usually a situation exploading in her face first..Mari learned at the begining to be irm on bad people and not give them an d opening and that you can succefully push back on bullies this way. give no room fpr them to wiggle out where she is firm when she sees something as wrong which has pros and cons.. a pro is she doesnt let bad behaviour be excused...on the other mari tends to jumpt to consclusions quickly, judge quickly and it doesnt give much wiggle room for nuance...
hence why mari learning nuance and that even bad people she thought of as evil could be complex and have their own issues and aren;t irrdeemable was important...so you COULD say that adrien and chat'sinfluence was there with her in spirit becuase it was adrien/chat that helped her really look at people from different angles and to know she should look a bit deeper since she misjudged adrien that first day and both adrien and chat are more patient and understanding that her at times where he more accuratle can put himself in other peoples shoes which is something she is consistantly weak at in the show. she's still a good person no doubt..but it IS something she struggles with.
so her showing compassion toward hawkmoth could be see as growth for mari AND show the influence of adrien and chat.
the main issue I have though is throughout the show they use CHLOE to really teach mari the lessons to give bad people second chances and that there can be more to their circumstances but then they said that chloe was irrdeemable...impying there was no point..so I DON'T understand mari giving gabril a chance when he's shown his worst to mari in particular this season. mind you the show has also made it clear that akma villains are victims who get taken advantage of and manipulated when at their lowest and that the REAL villians are the ones who enable and manipulate them...where chloe only started spiraling after Gabriel LITERALLY set her up to fail. targeted her family. took them hostage after telling her it was becuase of chloe that he targetted them..then led her to be isolated on a rooftop and cut hre means of communication then dug into her insecurities and took pollen and the other kwami's hostage where if chloe said no he would have keot them and she'd be alone with a uphappy villian with no way to defend herself. I get mari and others beliebing chloe was just being entitled about being queen bee since chloe doubled down after but chloe HAD accepted not being queen bee back in miraculoer and they dont know hakwmoth took her family and the kwami's hostage and that chloe only agreed after he freed them...like teh dude is a master emotional manipulator and set her up...and chloe being worse following that felt like chloe was over compensating and relying on being means as something familiar since she felt she burned her bridge with Ladybug since the side heros were revealed which paralleled how both mari and adrien relied on old familar behavior to try to lie to themselves and others that they were fine..using their crushes and old behaviour as distractions and coping mechanisms where they were lowkey pushing others away at times(especially mari).
where we see chle is manipulated at other time slater by hawkmoth AND lila...only it shows how in real life you face the consequences if you manipluated or not and whathappens when you have bad coping mechanisms...the whole point of emotional manipulation is you get tricked into thinking its all your idea where your goig to struggle to see yourself as a victim since no one likes to feel they are out of control of themselves.....
i honestly feel like a point is chloe faces karma but there is also something dark to it becuase mari and others havent noticed the manipulation and that chloe si also a victim as well..which makes sense for mari due to her not knowing everything we know and how mari responds to behaviour first...but does make me feel like a point is that mari is WRONG about chloe being irredeemable just like how mari often misjudges situatins and people in the show at times.
god i suddenly remember the incredibly weird stage play they used to indoctrinate Adrian about his backstory (i dont remember if this is correct ive only seen that episode once)
It was felix and kagami doing a stage play to tell marinette the back story
If Derision was only about the trauma and bullying part and not about the "justifying the stalking" part at all, I would have really liked the episode. Unfortunately, it tries to justify the stalking, which really brings it down. I also wished Marinette told Adrien about his father being Monarque, and I wished he didn't end up being seen as a hero by the parisians at the end of the season, because Adrien deserves to know what his father did, and deserves to be angry at him for how he was treated. He shouldn't have to feel conflicted about this because his father supposedly acted heroically, because, even if Gabriel had done a heroic action, which he didn't, but if he did, then he would still have been a horrible father. The parisians also deserve to know what he did.
Oh, and Reverse-Gabriel's superhero name is Hesperia in French, I'm just putting that here if you don't like the name in the english version and you don't like to say it.
I liked some parts of the finale, especially Marinette going off on Gabriel for mistreating Adrien that way BUT Adrien should have been there, especially considering how personal this confrontation would have been. Like, it's nice to see Marinette defend him and calling out Gabriel for his awful behavior to his face, but Adrien should have been present in the finale to do that himself, since he's the victim here.
I am sincerely asking this question
Why are we considering a woman trans when she just liked to wear masculine things
Like I don’t understand and it don’t make sense
Did no one listen when i said the other things or is it just the clothing bit that sticks out? Not the fact they were pretty androgynous to begin with or that they courted people of both genders and wore those clothes like theres more to gender then clothing but clothing does play a role in gender presentation. Like it is a part of it but its not the whole thing i even said
The movie did this so much better I really hope they ditch this madness and go with the movie
Thats the sad thing, theyre doing botb
@@ThinkBoxChris oh lord so more movei story that's good but also more of this nonsense someone needs to get Thomas away from the show he has a very bad obsession with his fake daughter
@oneofnone7947 yeah i agree, also get him away from totally spies that show does not need him
@@oneofnone7947Agreed!
@@ThinkBoxChris wait he was apat of total spies that's both disturbing and explains alot
I haven’t watched the special but seeing the clips you’re showing and hearing you speak on it I feel like I’m gonna watch it. It’s ironic how much the costume design looks so good for a special but not the actual show smh.
Right, its so good!
@@ThinkBoxChrisI just finished it and it’s so good!!!! Like love everything about it. HOWEVER also I didn’t like that when the reverted to good heroes their outfit (especially shadybugs) changed. At least leave her hair alone. 😭
@Hwaaha yeah right its so good but then the ending sours it a tiny bit
The magic that prevents Kwames from being photograph or recorded also prevents people from reckonizeing the person in the costume or being able to connect the dots to figure out their identity ( unless someone does something stupid like saying "Dude" all the time when only one person in Paris says it.)
Im not saying the magic the problem, my problem is that she cant figure it out via simple deactivate reasoning
@@ThinkBoxChris I'm saying that the magic prevents that.
@seandunne6714 then the show needs to say that, kwamis cant interfer with each others magic, but it shouldmt hamstring the characters critical thinking skills. Magic should have some rhym or resson, not be made up a decade in to snipe at fans
I will say despite not liking the story nor character development during s4-s5 it was never ever stagnant, it was always developing
That i will grant is a very good thing even though its bad development
Adrien Agreste deserves so much better than this.
39:59
…yeah, this kinda aged well. They uh- made her handicapped. She has prosthetic legs now for some reason and it’s not explained. Season 6 will either explain it well, or explain it horribly.
Still doesnt negate my point
Thomas astruc was joking about that, the girl with prosthetic legs is a new character.
The episode where Zoey tells Marinette that she likes her and you clarifying it is 100% true. I mentioned this in an unrelated video, but once I came out to my best friend that I had a crush on him, we are happy that we are still friends and we both understand that it can never work because he is straight and I'm gay. And while I didn't have any kind of emotion from Zoey telling Marinette more than the other show, it still brings my mind back to the, "friend is gay and has a crush on their straight friend".
Ive been in a similar situation and its not fun, but im not mad at the trope here cause its not pinning its just a single episode and its done, i like that
@@ThinkBoxChris me neither but a show that did it better, IMHO, is Dead End Paranormal Park.
@estebangutierrez160 okg yes i loved that show, and your right it did do this better
@@ThinkBoxChris i love that show too. It was awesome.
Women can dress how they want. Dressing masculine does not make them trans. And Jeanne was literally a soldier, I think they all wear masculine clothing.
Did no one pay attention to the other points or yall just stuck on clothes like normal? Im aware clothes dont make a persons gender i know cis men in skirts and cis women in pant suits they're still their respective gender, same with trans people in opposite directions as well. Its not the clothes thats important it was everything else around the clothes, clothes was just thrown in to help my point.
Also very funny everyone is pointing out the clothes as a gotcha but no one cares i called them bisexual
@@ThinkBoxChris She never had a romantic or sexual relationship with anyone. There's a good chance that she was asexual.
@@ThinkBoxChris This is so funny, speaking as a Trans person like. Yeah, uh, they can - but it takes a proper level of ignorance to go "Uh, yeah, Scholars have been discussing this topic for years and come to a pretty good conclusion about this person's Identity - and this is just the information we've got properly recorded. This follows an idea we have from other proto-transgender icons. HMM. But I disagree."
Joanne of Trans Arc frfr
@KatieKat223 i gave sources in the description i didnt make this up, i didnt come up with it i head peoples concerns looked into it and came to my conclusion. How is that any different from any other kind or research? Further more its getting kinds frustrating when people only focus on clothing when i mention other factors that point to it from what I read.
Im no trans expert i just repeated what i read as best i could, im not saying people are are wrong for disagreeing my issue comes in from how they decide to handle that disagreement. Like for example mocking me
everytime i watch one of your videos it only fuels me rewriting all of miraculous and i swear one day i will make a webcomic
Haha im glad i could be a motivator in that sense. Ill read it whenever its done if you want
I want there to be like a show reboot 10 years later or something like that. Like how other kids shows have been getting reboots lately, y'know?
Couldn't hurt
28:12 The ONE thing I'll grant the ending is that was probably his wife's sister at the pool, with the wish saving only Natalie so he could join his wife in the afterlife. That said I prefered the film ending for him.
Color me surprised. I didn’t think you’d like the ship Feligami. But hey. Glad I’m not alone in that! Also great to see you again! Hope you’ve been doing well! ☺️😁
Hey im just as suprised as you are but they passed my low bar of "not being icky".
And im doing well hope everyone is too
33:23 I have Saint Joan of arc for my conformation name at church…. I SEE THIS AS AN ABSOLUTE WIN
Aww im actually really happy for you about that
I think the reason why Derision was so bad was because the episode was used to excuse Marinette's stalking behavior, and not actually explain it. There is a difference between an explanation and an excuse. Thomas Astruc was deliberately trying to excuse Marinette because she was the main character and the hero of the story. Not even Chloé got the same treatment Marinette did. There is a reason why Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse, and this exemplifies it.
I honestly told my self to finish season 5 and I'm never watching this show again, I'm still going with that because I can't take the writing anymore.
I will watch the paris special because it sounds interesting and might as well rap up any loses ends.
12:00 The tracker was tracking the Miraculouses being activated, not the wearer, unlike Safari's power in Passion. It's just strange they didn't come after her once she put both on at the end of Conformation, but that's a separate plot hole.
What annoys me the most is tge treatment of Chloe and the way they handled the end of the Gabriel arc.
Like i will never be able to forgive the writers of this show for sending an abused chiod to oive with her abuser and then a few episodes later in tge finale let Adriend beoieve his father was a good person and make him look like the good guy and not give Adrien the chance to confront him.
these children do not deserve this, this is literally excusing/justifying abuse/neglect and also forgiving Gabriel in the second cawe, who also has been terrorizing paris for an entire year.
This show's writung just feels s9 out of touch with how real life worka sometimes and the messsages it's sending
Chloe deserves to be part of a better show like Ben 10: Alien Force, Amphibia, Infinity Train, Mob Psycho 100, Final Space, Arcane or BoJack Horseman.
Okay, your take Joan of Arc is really weird. All because females feel more comfortable in male defined clothing doesn't make them trans.
If you want to debate about her sexuality, I have no problem with that. I'm just not cool with trying to take female representation of empowerment away to change it into something else.
This is honestly a take im seeing a lot. And i think people are misunderstanding a fundamental thing; i never claimed the clothing was tbe reason they were trans. People are getting the cause and effect baxkwords in this case, clothing and gender are independent i know people on both sides of the divide that wear clothes of any representation and frankly i dont care. People are focusing on the cloths because its an easy way to refute what i said without the other things i brought up. Im not saying my phrasing is perfect but i have sources thst id encourage people to read before just saying im taking away from women when that has nothing to do with this topic.
Its also weirdly transphobic to immediately go "but your taking from women if this is the case" without thinking about the implications of how trans people might feel on this matter. Women have countless examoles of string enpowering figures, yes some even in the army, but you never hear about them because joan of arvh was noteworthy simply for the tragedy of it all and i think boiling them down to "women in army= good female rep" kinda misses the point of why they were even on war to begin with, regardless of gender.
On top of that its not like i made this up and then wrote the script i heard people had issues with the episode did some reaserch and came to my own conclusions based on said research which i sorced. Its not a take if im just telling you my findings.
I think you didn’t get that part in the finale but Adrien literally became an Orphan it’s not her mom in the pool party it’s Felix’s mom….and this just make it even worse that Gabriel just choose to abandon his son 😩
I legitimately though he saved them both, maybe they coulda said her name or something but still im half right he has one person to love him
I'd rather watch the 'Dexter' finale again than whatever Re-creation was.
I mean, it LITERALLY implies that all the characters died for the villain!
They need to erase the show and start from scratch it’s too far gone now.
Nope..... There is still hope ... The problem is you all take it way too seriously. forgetting the characters are fictional.
@julietchristopher7578 people care about these characters and your aloud to, you clearly do given your saying theres still hope when thats just wishful thinking at this point. The series has shown us what it is hope died a long time ago
@@julietchristopher7578After Marinette forgave a terroist aka Gabriel. I don’t think there’s much hope left.
I agree, the series needs a reboot, with new writers, new animation, new everything.
And I would rather have it as an anime, maybe a wanna be Sailor Moon, anything as long as the current writer team is out of the picture.
Several characters also needs to be rebooted, such as Marinette and Chloe, after all, they are the representation of Thomas's middle school bully and daughter 😐
There is also many other fucked up things such as one of the artists of the show drawing Po*n ... or Thomas creating a comic where he depicts Marinette almost naked with a black man 💀 and many more...this franchise is dead and I lost hope in Season 4.
I hope they can just either finish it off and forget about it or reboot it and actually make a great story out of it.
It'd be best you guys stop watching it instead of ranting about how bad it is ... I for one, feel completely indifferent when a show doesn't do it for me.... I don't even have time to rant about it.
"The difference between reality and fiction, is fiction has to make sense."
Who said that
Doesn't matter whom, as it's demonstrably true.
(there'll likely never be a film about the WWII Battle of Samar, as the audience wouldn't believe it 😅😆)
@jimtaylor294 tom Clancy said it according to Wikipedia but the qoute he took from was mark twan's the only difference is he changed the line from "has to bs credible" to "make sense".
As for that battle it seems semi intresting i mean if they can make a movie about the boardgame battle ship midly intresting then whoes to say an underdog story about ww2 wouldnt work? You know the academy loves those movie's
@ThinkBoxChris It'd make sense that Mark Twain would've said it, though odds are quite a few people before him had a similar proverb, as even Theater Plays have to worry about a level of believability that everyday life doesn't 😆 .
I recommend Drachinifel's video on Samar. He illustrates quite well how insanely unlikely the result was, and how painfully outclassed Taffy 3 was.
A more mundane example of what I was driving at would be those moments where something happens by accident that would pretty much be impossible intentionally 😉 .
(like being tossed a Satsuma, only for it to bounce off your palm, and through some bizarre act of physics finds itself in the waste paper bin across the room... leaving yourself and the family member whom casually tossed it briefly stunned & then laughing)
@jimtaylor294 ah i see ill probably look into it inbetween projects
My theory is that the reason Gabriel was later known as a hero is because later Marinette will accidentally reveal to Adrien that his dad was hawk moth / shadow moth / monarch, which would lead to having Adrien akumatized.
Yeah thats probably it
Also the last scene where Lilah saw something that geniuenly made her shocked could possibly be the kwami null. When kwamis are created they aren't created with a miraculous, which means that someone has to create a miraculous for null, which leads to my next question which is how are they going to turn back the miraculous to their normal forms now that Gabriel turned them into rings.
@TejpenOfficiell they showed that, marinette just made them into their original forms
I love the points you made in this video. I don't want to defend the writing decisions for the finale of the 5th season, but I think there was stuff thought through when they chose to let Adrien out of the final battle with Gabriel and have Marinette lie to Adrien at the end. Considering Tomoe Tsurugi is still going to be a threat ("I will continue his legacy"), there might be more lore reveals in season 6. What if Marinette lying to Adrien foreshadows their possible break-up later on? I bet they won't just leave this possibility unexplored. There will be angst 100% for this lie in the future between Adrien and Marinette. I just hope there can be a way to make Adrien's reaction satisfying to hearing the truth.
I really hope in season 6 they will give actual footage and character development to mark and Nathaniel as a couple 22:09
really good video, I enjoyed listening while working on the side :D
46:21
okay but you gotta admit this was absolutely hilarious he looks so stupid its so endearing
I will never forgive them for making the final fight between Marinette and Gabriel instead of Adrien and Gabriel.
at the end, i think that its not adriens mom but aunt. nathalie was hurt bc of the peacock miraculous, but at the ending scene we see that shes okay. i think that gabriel wished to save nathalie.
ngl i love your commentary, and honestly i would like to hear your opinion on the London/Time Travel special! Or would you rather save that for when season 6 airs as warm up? It opens such an interesting plot line, would like to hear your opinion!
Honestly im not sure yet, i havent heard anything about it or season 6 so well see
@ Yeahh season 6 is supposed to release soon but has no air date? I’m assuming it’s next month, but we’ll see. Thanks for replying! Would love to see what you have to say about season 6 and the special when it comes out! Your points are made extremely well, and I agree with most if not all of them. Thanks again!!
even if she have PTSD nothing change She still creepy
Im sorry are you calling me creepy or her creepy?
@@ThinkBoxChris ah Sorry Is marinette
@eleemaeli1830 oh ok
@@ThinkBoxChris don't worry i have nothing against you
@eleemaeli1830 im glad thank you for asking
17:58 You and IOTA seem to be in lockstep on that.
This finale made me give up on the show. After everything, my expectations were at rock bottom for the finale. I would’ve been happy if A, the identity reveal happened and B. Adrien found out his father was a psychopath. But alas even the smallest of expectations were far too much for this show. It sucks too because they set up Adrien finding out about his father perfectly. He used his cataclysm on Gabe and now Gabe is dying. BOOM. Have him see in the finale that his dad is Hawkmoth or Monarch or whatever and then flip to his side, when he realizes this may be the only way to save the last parent he has. Provide actual conflict for Adrien to be the center of, instead of sending him away.
48:59 Ah shoot! I forgot to say this for the portion of “next season set up”.
Sailor moon didn’t feel the need to set up their next villain till the next season came around, so I don’t know why the writers were so over eager to set up the next villain who CAN BE SOMEONE WITHOUT THE BUTTERFLY BROACH! Hell, if they had a gap season where the order of the guardians were the antagonists or had a bigger plot dealing with the reverse universe then I feel the show would get a lot less stale.
The Fate series and puella magi madoka magica treats Jeanne d'arc way better then this show has and in madoka magica she's on screen for 5 seconds and doesn't speak she just exist on screen for 5 seconds sigh I'm gonna go watch the movie and something that has romance in it that is well written
God speed and good luck to you
I was so confused by the final scene. Had to look it up to understand what exactly happened, and most ppl online didn’t quite know either. Now, I’m p sure the woman is Felix’s mom, not Adrien’s, whose mom and dad are now both dead. So, maybe Gabe’s wish was to cure Natalie? Idk, I really wish they’d clarified more.
That being said, I’m glad for the status quo change. Lila is entertaining and deserves to be main villain, and now Adrien can live with Natalie and his aunt and cousin.
22:30 he's such a manipulator originally he was going to let Natalie die that's why he said "seems you really were loyal to me to the very end." FREAKIN CREEP!!!!!
Ugh!! Ewww! That’s disgusting! 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮
In my opinion the finale of season 5 should have been the one time we swap to Adrien.
Like imagine after seeing hawk Moth is Gabriel if she almost immediately removed her miraculous and sent tikki to take the Miraculous to Adrien and tell him everything and Gabriel seeing this through presumed security cameras takes marinette hostage potentially even Hearing that his son is getting the ladybug miraculous all without marinette knowing he's the holder of the cat Miraculous
Also good god this show… we finally get shit we want but it took to long and at times I’m like “at what cost”
Thomas worked on code lyoko… how the hell did he screw up THIS badly
Is it wierd of me to say I wanna write my own version of the show, to fix all the major issues?
Code lyoko want his show though so he had someone fixing his issues but here he has free reign.
And not at all you certainly wouldn't be the first
@@ThinkBoxChris true very true
I was just re-watching code lyoko on another binge (for like the billionth time XD) and I realize a lot of characters in Miraclous seems to have similarities to those of code lyoko… you cannot tell me Cat Noir (hero not Adrine) didn’t have some inspiration from Odd… or Chloe was the sissy of the squad… honestly… or- okay if I start listing everything we’d be here all day
The question is what would be the biggest change the fandom wants (Chloe aside cause I think we all almost agree upon that XD)
48:05 if we’re being honest marinette going in for the fight isn’t that BIG of a deal, cat noir is normally the fighter/fights for time while ladybug comes up with a plan. so marinette with the cat miraculous would just take cat noirs role.
Since others have mentioned the issues I have with the pool episode where Marinette gets trauma, I'll mention other things that I haven't seen anyone else bring up.
In that episode, there was a missed opportunity for GOOD writing. Like if the whole obsessive stalking thing didn't exist, it'd explain why she didn't like Chat Noir at first since he can be similar to Kim sometimes in the early seasons 😅
I don't like the fact that past Kim attempted to unalive her either when the present self didn't really do that.
And the Shadybug episode is only good because the idea and name is so similar to a RUclips fanfic series I saw years ago. "Evil" Ladybug was named Shadybug and she was actually a criminal
I agree with you on this i just want to point out kim wasnt trying to hurt or kill her he was just trying to scare her and she tripped pff the diving board. Its still messed up but i don't want people thinking kim is psychopath.
I think it was confirmed that the person we see at the end was Amelie not Emilie.
Ive been made aware, but that kinda adds to my point all adrien has is Natalie now isnt that a little sad?
Hey! Good to see a new video from you. I was wondering, how were you able to use 7-10 second clips from the show with no editing on the audio without getting copyrighted? (I’m always open to learning more about copyright so I’m all ears. 😊)
I just... do it really most content id picks up MUSIC if its over 5 seconds but clips of people talking can be anywhere between 10- 15 and not get caught so ibtend to stay in or around that if i can. I can get better/ longer results if i cut the clips up and remove pauses.
The system is easy at catching unbroken shots but if the camera cuts it has a harder time iding the content. Does that make sense?
@@ThinkBoxChris It definitely clears things up for me. Thanks so much for your help.
@ACriticalRetrospective yeah no problem anything to help