Tim Lerch and Dr. Geoff Yule - A wide ranging conversation about Guitarists and Hand Health
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- Tim has a fascinating conversation about a very important subject. World class hand surgeon Dr. Geoffrey Yule shares important information about your hands. Arthritis, tendinitis and more.
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My heart goes out to all of you who have commented about your difficulties. I will eventually respond to each comment personally but for now know that I admire your courage and perseverance in spite of your struggles. Thank you for sharing about your challenges.
The following could help:
~ Using 9's or even 8's (also hybrid sets).
~ Playing a 24.75” instead, and a thin and comfortable neck.
~ As low an action as you can get while notes still work, even accepting a bit of string buzz.
~ Warming the hands, and being aware of / lightly using muscles before you play.
~ Only play as much as is needed, rest in between playing in a session, focus on minimising the flexion of muscles, fretting only as much as is required.
~ Turning the gain or volume up so you can pick lighter, or using a compressor pedal especially.
~ Straitening the wrists and using compression-wear like a sweat band (can wear up on forearms too).
What an excellent idea, Timothy. You and Dr Yule add a badly needed dose of dignity to RUclips, both content and visuals. Thank you.
My hands aren't healthy at all. Every time I play, they catch on fire. Thanks for this very important video.
It's interesting that Dr. Yule mentions the psychological aspect of physical pain. Some years ago I developed chronic pain in various regions of my body, including both my wrists. I had to stop playing for 2~3 years and ended up pretty debilitated at age 21-24, to the point of not being able to walk. (I was more depressed for not being able to play guitar than to walk). No traditional medical procedure worked for me. Icing, painkillers, corticosteroids, physical therapy... It turned out that the whole thing was... "psychological". It was basically an anxiety response. I stumbled across a book called "Healing Back Pain" by Dr. John Sarno and it healed my pain completely.
I believe having a strong spirit and a balanced mind is the best way to prevent these kinds of health issues.
I had 4-5 years of wrist pain from playing guitar. Just like you, no conventional medicine really helped. I also stumbled across John Sarno and a month later, no pain problems. And still no problems 8 years later despite playing guitar 20-30 hours a week. It’s pretty incredible - Years and thousands of dollars on medical care to help and what finally worked was a $12 book on Amazon Kindle
@Tharshan Ruben Ravichandrarajan There are two other books. "The Mind-Body Prescription", and "The Divided Mind". I didn't check them out but i'm sure it's worthwhile.
There's a lot of content on RUclips, including Dr. Sarno's Interviews and documentaries, which is worth checking out too
Wow, thank you for this. I just got out of a traumatic period punctuated with an injury. The injury left me hopeless to play as it legit hurt to begin with. As part of just caring for myself I found a better less drama filled place along the way. My neck can play plenty of guitar now if I'm smart about it. It was trying to heal in a toxic situation that was hopeless, not my neck. Great share. I felt silly, tyvm.
I have been dealing with this for about a year and a half, arthritis in both thumbs. I did cortisone shots that worked, and then they stopped working. I have done massage, pills, sports therapy etc etc for my thumbs. Last thing was my doctor said I need surgery.... I fixed it myself by going on a carnivore diet. Problem solved. I'm not saying that is the way to go, but it healed me, amonst healing other semi permanent things I have been dealing with.🙂👌
Was it 1st carpal metacarpal joint?? Thanks
After dealing with pain from worn out cartilage in my fretting hand for several years, I opted for a CMC arthroplasty. It is a painful and intrusive procedure that takes a long time to heal. Now on the other side of it by several years, I can play guitar again. It is not a perfect solution. I cannot play any guitar except my low-action electric for any length of time and do not own any except it. But my playing time went from an hour a week to up to ten or twelve if I push it. That is a huge thing to me that I thank and praise God for.
Thank you sensei! Your story about sliding your finger up and down the "B" string brought back a beautiful memory from my childhood. In the early 50s, my favorite uncle returned home from military service with a Stella acoustic. He knew a few chords and sang. It was amazing to me. I soon figured out how to play "Tom Dooley" by sliding up and down the "A" string. God, that was delightful!!!! And the beginning of a life of music for me.
At 75, I find it still it delightful; not necessarily easy any more. Thanks for thinking of us and generously sharing on all levels. Dave
The Stella plywood guitar-- they should have been illegal. See Mason Williams song "$13 Stella." He learned to play on one just like me.
@@williamstanford7994 Great tune! Spent many hours on my uncle's Stella. I was too young to know how bad it was. To me it was magic.
My first guitar was a donated Stella. The best sound I ever got out of it was when I threw it down the back stairs.
I've been dealing with De Quervain's Syndrome for close to 2 years now. The root cause was overuse, mostly due to drumming, and drumming with somewhat poor technique. I did play guitar on top of that, which I'm sure worsened the situation. I tried to use the time at home during the pandemic to advance my playing, and unfortunately I overdid it.
As someone who obsessively researched, tried things, and received treatments, the only things that worked for me were the following:
1) Using a proper brace, which keeps your wrist and thumb in a fixed position. You want to prevent the stretching of the tendon which caused the issue.
2) Eventually doing range of motion and strengthening exercises.
3) Shockwave therapy, in particular, when the issue became chronic.
4) Deep tissue massage in the forearms, as tightness in the forearms and hands can be a part of the cause.
5) Wearing athletic tape, simply to be more aware of the position of my thumb and wrist.
Early on, stretching only made the issue worse, laser therapy did not help, and icing did nothing other than temporarily relieve pain. I dug into hot-cold therapy, and there's no evidence to suggest it helps. I went to A lot of these treatments have very weak science behind them, so don't expect to find some sort of miracle. These injuries suck, and there isn't a single, perfect solution out there.
Another important finding was regarding inflammation. This is how the body heals injuries. Inflammation following an acute injury is natural - why do we try to combat it? Taking naproxen or even getting a cortisone shot only offers temporary relief. Some research even suggests it hinders the healing process. The takeaway here is to avoid interfering with the bodies natural healing process. Heat will provide relief, and improve blood flow.. That's about it.
If the condition becomes chronic, escalate to something like shockwave. There is also PRP therapy, if you have access to that type of treatment. I wasted dozens, if not hundreds of hours trying to fix a problem that takes time to heal. Find a good physio therapist quickly and follow their guidance.
Also, let this be a reminder that nothing is permanent, and there's no guarantee that you'll be able to play for your entire life. Enjoy what you have while you still have it! Music is an amazing gift and we all need to cherish it while we can.
I manage my tendonitis problems with regular deep massage of the forearm muscles, stretching, wearing a wrist brace (only at night), and taking anti-inflamitories when it's really acting up. I work on a computer all day. I paniced and thought it would only get worse, but it can improve.
thank you!
Thank you both so much.
This made me realise that there is even more reason to have a well set up guitar.
Soaking my hands in very hot water with added dissolved epsom salts really seems to get things feeling pretty good for me. I' m in my 70's
Thanks for the video. I've played the guitar since 1961 and earned two music degrees in classical guitar performance. The reason I bring that up is that an awful lot of practice went into that with the result that I have had nine surgeries on my hands, and I have never received a word of criticism about my technique. Nevertheless, I had carpal tunnel and trigger finger operations galore. Repetitive motion injuries were the diagnosis. I'm completely healed now and retired, so no complaints. I had a marvelous surgeon, and I have no visible scars. I've never had tendonitis though. Self-taught guitarists should beware of the baseball bat left hand grip so common among "ear" players. My advice would be to acquire a good book on classical guitar technique and spend the time to retrain your hands. In the long run it will be worth it.
Hello William,
Thanks for sharing your experiences. What good book/s on classical technique would you recommend for this purpose? KRs, E
@@EasyBreather000 "The Art of Classical Guitar Playing" by Charles Duncan would be an excellent starting point. It may be out of print, but you should be able to find a copy on the web if it is. Good luck.
Hello again William, thanks for this recommendation, it's very much appreciated. I found it on Amazon, still available in print or as a kindle version. After reading a little of it on preview I've decided to buy a copy ! I'm sure it'll be very useful to me on my journey. Thank again for your help and happy 2023
Thank you Tim and Dr Jeoff.
Excellent information gents.
I have carpel tunnel on my right thumb/wrist for 7 years now due to guitar playing and mostly using mouse with computer, long hours as a photographer doing post prod.
Been avoiding surgery and found help with exercises, stretching, rotating hand/wrist, using brace at night that keep thumb-hand-wrist in line.
Also applying cold-heat helps a bit.
I am 70 yrs old and playing since 9. I do believe the joy of music and playing has been the best medicine of all.
I had hydraulic dissection done on mine, very effective and non invasive.
I teach my students to play barre chords with the thumb not touching the neck at all.
Thank you Tim for this info! Very helpful. I have problems in the left thumb joint at the base of the hand. So much so I stopped playing to rest my hand. This had a positive effect but still not complete. I decided to try physical therapy. I had less than 55% of grip strength...my right hand has 100 lbs grip strength but my left only had 40 lbs. I couldn't hold things like a glass or half gallon of milk. Well it has been 6 months of twice a week therapy doing various treatments but now I have 90 lbs of grip strength in my left hand and once I am warmed up I can play again. I played a 5 hour new years gig last night pretty much pain free. Huge difference :) I say this so people know that physical therapy can help with your hand problems. Oh by the way I am 70 years old and have been playing for about 55 years. Thx Tim love your channel!
Thank you for talking about this issues. Would be great for a future conversation about Carpal Tunnel and Cubital Tunnel syndrome. I had a really bad case of Cubital tunnel about 7 months ago and it was depressing and frustrating. it is slowly getting better. in my experience Collagen, Hydration and Anti-inflamatory foods like (Turmeric, Ginger, Garlic, Strawberries, etc.) Really helps. My best wishes to all, Stay Healthy!
Thank you!
Aw man we all need more information like this as older players! I have stopped playing mostly because my hands and joints ache all the time. I believe I hand a severed nerve in my hand around my thumb muscles. So when I do play I often move my thumb position around to keep my left hand relaxed as possible. Right hand is also has osteoarthritis as diagnosed by my family doctor. Who didn’t bother to recommend anything. We have to self advocate for our overall health these days . Great interview Tim !
I finally got to see a chiropractor yesterday who believes she can help me with numbness in my left hand (no pain though). I've been to other doctors over the past couple of years who have either misdiagnosed or want to resort to surgery on both wrists for carpal tunnel symptoms which I have no symptoms of at all in my right hand. The chiropractor has been the only hope I've had in a few years of being able to play guitar regularly again. I've been making a living as a musician and music educator for most of my adult life except for the last few years (I'm 62). I had experienced CTS about 10 years ago but used the Montgomery Method by Dr. Kate Montgomery to reverse the symptoms and keep it away for the better part of a decade. At this point the symptoms are stemming from different motions, postures etc than in the past..
As far as arthritis is concerned I've noticed a positive effect as long as I continue taking my daily supplements of glucosamine w/ chondroitin. The hand exercises, stretching and massage of The Montgomery Method appear to help as well.
I'm going to see the chiropractor again next week and discuss the options for treatment. It's going to cost me as chiropractor treatment isn't covered under regular medical treatment (I'm Canadian). But I'd rather sell a couple of guitars to cover the costs just to allow me to play again. I hoping and praying these treatments will give me the results I need. I hope Source is listening! Thanks so much for addressing these medical problems we have as guitar players, Tim!!! It's something that is probably overlooked more than it should be. Great information in this video.
For good arm and hand position, I recommend this. Sit straight and relaxed in a chair. Form a chord, keeping your thumb on the back of the neck. Now, lay the guitar face down in your lap, holding the chord. Raise the guitar back into playing position, moving your arm only at the elbow. This is, more or less, the optimal playing position.
Great video Tim. Thank you. I recently damaged my left index finger in a carpentry accident. I sustained serious damage to the DIP joint of my index finger. Fortunately I have been seeing a very respected hand surgeon. Not sure how it is going to heal and function in the future. After playing guitar for more than 50 years, this is obviously a serious situation you me. The information and insight provided in this video was a blessing.
I work in the trades and am near retirement. I would always hope that somehow if an injury occurred, music would still come out of me and some other form. Are used to play bass and seven guitar and I know it doesn’t require as much physical dexterity. Hopefully you can still make some awesome music, sir, but I feel your pain.
Joe Charles Really important topic. I have recently had symptoms which sopped my playing cold. I have nodules on my joints and palms. So I stopped playing and started a few hand exercises to increase my circulation in my hands. The nodules on my palms and finger joints have subsided. But who knows, not me. I will carry on with this.
Que ejercicios realizas? Ya estas bien?
“Dig it for the moment that it is” I love that, I don’t have many of those ailments yet 😌🤞🙏. even so, this information is very useful. Thank you for posting. Happy 2023 🎉
I'm 69 and retired 3 yr's ago. So i've been playing about 25 hour's a week and 4 week's ago started having wrist and hand pain. Thanks for this video Tim & Jeff. Also some finger yoga vid's helping.
After playing guitar for over 50 years, arthritis and trigger finger started plaguing my left hand. I gave up playing and actually sold off or gave away almost all of my guitars. During recovery from hand surgery, the physical therapist told me that I needed to start playing again as therapy. I actually have had to buy a new guitar. It is like starting over again. I am playing like when I was 8 at age 64. I can’t really make a D chord. Practice makes perfect.
Excellent ! I figure out I had a wonderful guitar teacher, I think she didn't know anything about anatomy but she taught without a world the right things to do.
I'd studied classical guitar for two years with her, the few things I learnt still help me today.
Great educational video. BTW Tim Lerch=The Dude
Thank you Tim and Dr. Geoff!! This was gold.
Such a good discussion and one that could benefit players of all ages. If you get the good doctor back for a 2nd episode, is there another discussion around the tendons in the forearm as they relate to repetitive gripping?
Take a look at Chris Poland hand as well for one of those folks who overcame an injury and became a mind blowing player.
At 63 with a history of rheumatoid arthritis in my family, plus a job that was very hard on the hands. This video gave me all sorts of good advice and hope.
I retired early last year because I could no longer do my job. It took 6 month before I could play again on a regular basis.
This timely topic is fearful to players of certain ages--the dreaded physical deterioration that prevent them to keep on playing. The arthritis in my hands seem to migrate from one joint to another or one finger to another. It has been going for a few years. What's curious is that the thumbs never have any problems. Thank you Tim and Dr. Yule.
I started using hand grippers and I noticed my ability to play without burnout improved.
I'm 65 now and retired, plenty of time to practice and play for the joy of it now. All would be great if it wasn't for arthritic pain creeping into my right thumb (picking hand) along with some tingling/numbness in the tips of my index finger and thumb on my left (fretting) hand. Lots of good information here, things to consider - things to do & not do. Much more than I knew before I watched your talk with Dr Yule. Thank you Tim!
Great topic - I'm 58. I've been playing for several hours daily for over 7 years. Mostly a short scale acoustic guitar. You can see how and what I play on my channel if your're intersted. Here's what work's best for me to manage hand pain:
1) Guitar set-up: LOWER YOUR ACTION: For some reason most guitars are set-up with sky-high action from the factory. There's a lot BS about this and "tone". Ignore it. Trying to play a guitar with high action is like trying perform a ballet wearing combat boots. It aint gonna be pretty. SLAM THOSE STRINGS DOWN until they buzz, and then raise them just enough to stop the buzzing. Use a little neck relief (truss rod adjustment) to deal with any temperture or humidity induced buzzing Set the nut height first. USE LIGHT GAUGE STRINGS. Rick Beato did an excellent video about string gauge and tone. The bottom line is that you'll sound better, and everything is easier when you use the lightest strings availible. Especially for amplified / electric playing. Don't rely on techs to do your set-up. Learn how to do it yourself. It's not hard, and there's lots of good RUclips content on how to do it well. String gauge affects action via tension and diameter, so if you change gauge, you'll probably need to re-set the action. Do it. You'll play better and your hands will thank you.
2) Hand care: I'd say "learn to use a light touch" but that might take years if you're like me, and learned to play on a crappy guitar with high action. Muscle memory is a b*ch, and unlearning the whole vice-grip playing style you developed over the first few years playing that POS will take years. Lower your action (see above) and you'll instictively develop a lighter touch without hving to think about it. You'll still have a death grip on the neck most of the time, which is good for barre chords anyway. Avoid barre chords when possible BTW. Learn how to use a capo to lighten the load. SILICONE BANDS: I buy 4" silicone rubber bands and keep them on my wrist most of the time. I place them around all my fingers and thumb and then OPEN my hands repeatedly between songs and before and after practice. One of the root causes of tendenosis is overdevelopment of either flexor or extensor muscels relative to each other. Sure - guitar players can crush unopened cans of chicken soup with their vice like grip strenth, but they are like infants OPENING their hands. Silicone bands are cheap and durable and provide resistance for exercizing opposing muscle groups in your forearms and hands. Add more for more resistance as you progress. This one thing worked better for me than everything else - including pills and herbs and heat and cold. Balance your hand strenth. I also use a spike green monster ball I got on Amazon for myofacial relief. It helps "release" the facia and treat acute pain from over-use. Great for neck and back pain too. There's science behind this. I'm also looking into near infared theraphy. Google it. Again, there's science behind this suggesting it helps cellular repair via mitochondrial modulation. Know how good sunlight feels? that's NIR radiation penetrating deep into your skin and reaching bones and tendons and such. Super-cheap incadescent heat lamps (not LED) put out the most. They are usually red for NIR radiation. Finally, are you getting enough protien? Seriously. If your over 50, your body needs more and more protien to repair muscle and connective tissue as you age. A LOT more protien. Look into it - Supplementing with protien shakes has helped arthritis all over my body.
3) Hand position and all that: Basically, try to align your palm and wrist in one plane as much as possible while you play. This is impossible if you sling your guitar down by your balls trying to look cool. The best players keep their guitars right under their t*ts. That's why guitars are shaped like that. It's so you can rest one of your t*ts on it. This will make it FAR easier to align your forearm (where the strongest muscles are) with your palm (which is the foundation of your fingers) The more you bend your wrist, the more strenght you'll need to play the same chords and notes. It's just physics. Forces don't like changing direction.
4) Take periodic rests. This is one of the hardest for me, because I lose track of space and time while playing. I'd say "set a timer" but I end up not noticing them lol. Playing for me involves a sort of dissociateve flow, and before I know it, 2 or 3 hours might elapse. Still - try to take breaks and stretch.
I really enjoyed this video. I'm was very worried I was slowly crippling my hands. Not because I care about the pain, but because I was thinking it might end my playing prematuarly. Seems that there are or were plenty of world class guitarists with horribly disfigured, crippled hands.
... I find that very reassuring! =)
If you have inflammation, lower your carbs and QUIT SUGAR. We're a carb and particularly sugar-addicted culture and almost all our physical ailments come down to over-consumption of these. If nothing else, ponder this: Cancer LOVES sugar. 'Nuff said. HAPPY NEW YEAR TIM!! 😁✌
Thank you! How rare it is to hear the truth about RSI and inflammation. Diet is the key. Too many have gone under the knife without considering the enormous influence diet has on the body.
@@NietsdlogKram The only thing second to diet is exercise but diet is actually more important. In fact, the most important factor if you need to lose weight is diet...and it is NOT by restricting calories. Sugar, grains and seed oils are the worst things we can eat, yet "modern" medicine(see: behind-the-times) tells us to reduce salt and switch to a more plant-based diet. The actual science shows the complete opposite of this. The long-and-short of it is we all need to become our own, personal health advocates because no one else has any skin in the game. :)
And don't forget that carbs mostly come from plants.
Plants defend themselves amongst other toxins, with oxalates.
Oxalates bind with several minerals but it loves calcium, creating CalciumOxalateCrystals.
Needle shaped crystals, which form 80% of kidney stones. And if they form in your joints, we call it arthritis!
Also taking away calcium from the blood, forces the body to take calcium from your bones, which we call osteoporosis!
Go Ke to Car ni vore 😍 👍
@@NietsdlogKram are you keto or carnivore?
@@m007mm I've been Keto for 2 years. It can be challenging but it's the only thing that has radically alleviated digestive inflammation for me(and joint stiffness/inflammation along with it!). I've recently attempted a diet more akin to carnivore but have found it a bit extreme for me. No one of us is alike, so we all need to figure out what works for us individually. Many of us do not need to restrict carbs as much as Keto would indicate (under 40-50g/day, though some would have you believe below 20g/day). It all depends on your health issues but the reality is that, by the time most of us are 45-50 years old, we've consumed way too many carbs most of our lives and the vast majority of our health problems are directly related to this. Particularly pre-diabetic conditions, type 2 Diabetes , hypertension, obesity and general poor metabolic health.
If you're interested in any of this, check out Dr. Stephen Phinney, Dr. Paul Mason, Dr. Ken Berry and Dr. Nadir Ali on RUclips. Also Cronometer is a free app I use that makes Keto a lot easier. (it allows you to track what you eat, so you know how much protein, carbs and fat you consume daily) Cheers.😄
I'm now 51 yo, and have been playing guitar for about 35 years. I have mild arthritis which can be bothersome at times, but I have had some other major setbacks over the past 2 years that have been difficult to overcome. Firstly, I had a full rupture of my bicep of my fretting hand arm. That took about a year before I could even consider picking up my instrument again. Once I healed and was back to playing, I sliced through the thumb of my picking hand, fully rupturing the tendon. I have regained most of my range of motion now but it was a long road. Both instances were freak accidents. I take a good while to warm up my fingers and stretch the muscles of my forearms both in flexion and extension as most muscles of the hand are actually located in the forearm with long tendons that stretch to the fingers. Great video!
I'm 36 and I started experiencing arthritis in my index finger joints the last year or two. Taking glucosamine/chondroitin helps quite a bit, as does taking a tumeric supplement, wearing compression gloves also seems to help quite a bit. The thing that helps the most is soaking my hands for about 5 minutes in hot water before I play every time, religiously, this seemed to pretty much stop my finger from hurting. I find it to be far more effective to submerge my hands in a bowl/sink full of hot water as opposed to just running hot water over them, the heat seems to get in a lot better this way. Hope this helps someone!
Thanks especialy about turmeric ,its most powerfull mixed with ground pepper
It's the CalciumOxalateCrystals...
Look at the C.a.r.n.i.v.o.r.e.D.i.e.t...
@@m007mm I appreciate the advise I will look into it. I've tried strict diets like Paleo and keto in the past for limited periods of time. Keto seemed to do the most good for my psoriasis and joint pain so that's what I'm doing at the moment.
@@neilbush9873 Yes, most supplements will have Bioperine (black pepper) in them for enhanced absorption.
@@CJRSTV look at Mikhaila Peterson, she had arthritis since she was a child. 2 joint replacements. Not sick anymore.
Thanks for a great interview. Such an important topic. Years ago I developed tendinitis in my left hand and elbow and had to stop playing for about 18 months. I attended the Musicians Clinic just outside of Toronto and there were all sorts of musicians getting treatment there from young players like me about to go off to music college to highly experienced career musicians. Everyone’s situation and circumstances are different but for me I started taking Tai Chi lessons which helped and technique lessons with a studio musician who was classically trained. He told me I was playing with way too much tension, wasn’t breathing when I was playing. We also talked a lot about posture. I only had about 2 or 3 lessons with him but I think the Tai Chi and those lessons are the reasons I’m still playing today.
The only time I don’t feel right in my hands is when it’s very hot and humid out. Not sure why that is. There’s no pain, just feel really stiff and tired in my hands when I have to play. Been like that for decades so it’s not a recent thing.
Thank you for making this video Tim. I wish this was available in 2010 when I started having trigger finger on both hands at the same time. After 2 years of trying various treatments I ended up getting a surgery then another one a year later. Now I have arthritis in first joint of index finger (fretting hand) and trigger finger in ring finger. The arthritis makes it very difficult to control the pressure I am putting on the string. Mostly it is too much pressure which I need to lessen. Anyway, I have been struggling with these issues and I am glad to see a guitar player focused video.
We are already drugged by plant "medicine"...
Plants defend themselves amongst other toxins, with oxalates.
Oxalates bind with several minerals but it loves calcium, creating CalciumOxalateCrystals.
Needle shaped crystals, which form 80% of kidney stones. And if they form in your joints, we call it arthritis!
Also taking away calcium from the blood, forces the body to take calcium from your bones, which we call osteoporosis!
Go Ke to Car ni vore 😍 👍
And experience a second youth!
This could not have come to me at a better time. Thank you so much.
Yes we are getting older. So far I’m relatively healthy but I’m afflicted from my military experiences and had to stop working as a lawyer. Now I’m able to relearn music. But it can be a struggle and I take it one day at a time. I strive to learn something each day. Lucky for me, you provide so much ear pleasing material. I bought you giant sips mug to express my appreciation of your work and philosophy.
Thanks for this great video on an important subject that concerns many. You cover some fantastic recommendations for relieving hand stress. For me, the carnivore/ketovore diet is another solution and will be for those with auto-immune issues. In selecting a proper diet for YOU one size does not fit all however one change that will enhance anyone's woe (way of eating) is to cut out the harmful foods. What is a harmful food? Anything that comes neatly packaged and has an ingredient list with more than three items on it. I practice what I preach. Im in my late sixties have been a 90/10% carnivore (10% fruit, veg, or dairy) for over a year now and it has made a huge difference in my hand pain level when playing guitar. Given a choice I would rather quit the SAD (standard American diet) woe than to give up guitar playing because my hands can't function thru the pain. Oh, and another benefit (there are many) to a proper diet is increased mental clarity for remembering those difficult and lengthy chords, notes, and phrases to the songs we love to play and listen to. 🎼
Tim, thank you and Dr.Geoff Yule so much for taking the time & making the effort to produce such a helpful video! I had tendonitis in my left palm in 1971. I got a cortisone shot almost immediately, and although it fixed my pain problem I needed to figure out the CAUSE of the problem. It turned out that it was the neck of the guitar I was playing: It was too small for my large hands! I had nothing to hold onto! I noticed, however, that when I'd pick up smaller 12 fret Martins of the day (00-21, etc) that it required way less effort despite the neck being huge. My hand now had something to curve around naturally, thus making the angle of my fingertips naturally meet the string/fret contact points. Additionally I noticed that larger fret wire made it even easier to press because there was no need to also be pressing the fingertips against the fret board. I'm now 71 and have not had any further hand issues. All my electrics (strung .013-.054) now have Warmoth necks with 1.75" nut width, boat-neck profile & Stainless steel 6100 jumbo wire. My acoustics mainly have 1 & 13/16" necks patterned after my 1930 Gibson L-5, which has an extremely large rounded V profile.....anyway.....thanks again for the this video!
Im 57 and play pain free for about 40 hours a week for decades now. The key is being efficient in all movement and in applying pressure. Find ways to play with both hands in their most relaxed state possible. They said Paganini looked like he had a feather touch.
@@60Burst by his handshake. We did that in the old days.....Im 200.
@@leegollin4417 Great answer! Maybe, he'll stop asking stupid questions.
After 61 years of playing, arthritis took its toll on my left hand CMC and MP joints. I just can't play more than a few minutes which is a heartbreaker when an exceptional Tele and a custom made MIDI/acoustic sit languishing on their stands. I'm going to have surgery on it in the next month or two.
Thanks
Kind of late to the party. Very interesting indeed. I have no problems in the hands at all. Been playing .10 gauge stings on my electrics and mediums on my acoustic. Bending the Kossoff thing and am happy to be able to do all that even at almost 65. But now, since I saw this video I'm a bit alert and wondering if I should better step down to .9 strings just a s a precautious attempt to not run into any potential problems. Not sure if this question can even be answered at all. I guess it won't hurt but man I love .10 gauge so much better. Not trying to vent into the infamous epic debate.
This is pure gold. I shared this on the Tdpri telecaster forum.
Brilliant and generous. Thank you both from a member of "the constituency".
Nice to see you here Michael - really appreciate all you do, you have such great touch, fluidity, tone & taste. Keep on keeping on my friend
Fascinating, and informative, thankyou!
Dear Tim,
thanks for looking into this often overlooked topic. Whenever I fell pain in my joints, I listen to Django Reinhardt. He could only use two of the fingers of his left hand and was still able to make great music. That is what counts. To make the best of it under the circumstances.
It takes effort, but no effort means no reward.
Please keep posting videos, I can learn so much from your explanations! Take care!
I am 75 years old and have some bad arthritis in my left thumb, especially. Cannot even bend it. Been playing 61 years, just starting number 62. Just went through hip replacement in July and November. Some people think leaky gut syndrome is the cause of arthritis.
I quit Ibuprofen and switched to Tumeric extract which can be used as a supplement whereas ibuprofen seems to have a pernicious effect if used over extend periods if time.
Andres Segovia played over 90. I am almost 57, no problem with fingers. If I play barre I push little with my fingers and more with whole arm.
I don't know the exact percentages, I do it by feel.
Wonderful video Tim and Geoff! Thank you so much!
I find this discussion extremely interesting at this time in my guitar journey. I've been playing for forty-five years now, and I know that my largely self-taught approach, which includes the death grip, has taken some toll on my hands, especially the fretting left (I'm a lefty who plays righty, which always felt more natural). I've suspected for decades that I've suffered some nerve damage, as my writing became even poorer than it was to begin with. I'm especially curious about the thoughts of other guitar players who primarily play acoustic archtop, in the style of Allan Reuss (my guitar hero), Freddie Green and Eddie Lang. The relatively high action and heavy strings that were a necessity in the late '20s through at least late '30s are still favored today by many who play acoustic archtops, in the belief that these two elements are required to get that authentic sound. Too, many of us feel that electric archtops and amplification naturally make the player back off in playing swing rhythm. I run 13s on all my guitars, acoustic and electric, with the 13 and 17 swapped out for 14 and 18 on my acoustics, and my tech, per my instructions, set my Loar 700 up so that I could achieve better projection on rhythm while still being able to play chord melody/chordal solos with relative ease. I'd be interested to hear if others have felt the effects of this somewhat uncompromising approach.
Thanks Tim. It’s very kind of you to organise such informative content. Love your playing and love your channel.
As a long time guitarist (21yrs), medium time rock climber (6yrs), I highly recommend hangboarding aka fingerboarding for finger and hand strength. It has taken me over several plateaus and my hands have never felt better and stronger.
Thanks!
0:50 "Muddy Waters" nice reference
Helpful objective discussion.
Awesome Video! Thank you so much! I am 43 and have problems with my fingers and my wrist, but I love guitar so much, so quitting is no option. Would love to see more videos with Dr. Yule! Keep up the good work!
Thank you both for this important video!
Hi Tim and Geoff.
I usually refrain from commenting but I just wanted to explain my appreciation for this video.
I am a 27 yo guitarist ( I also play the drum kit which has complicated my hand difficulties further) I’ve been suffering with extreme pain in my left hand for approx five years. I often go see a masseuse and ask for a massage in between my left thumb and index finger. They look at me like I’m crazy. Anyway I believe this video will be really useful to me . Thankyou again
This is a great episode. Thank you.
I have used the hot and cold water before a gig for decades. A pharmacist in the 70's told me about a topical creme called MYOFLEX. Haven't seen it in a few years, but there is a creme on the market now called SPORTSCREME in a green and white tube. Both cremes share an ingredient called ( Trolamine Salicylate - 10% ). It is basically odorless and doesn't have a heat effect. Rubbing alcohol is helpful. I will do the hot and cold water, then apply the creme and wash it off when I get set up at the gig. Also light massaging of the fingers and hands helps me. Wearing light gloves when possible on your job or working outside goes a long way in protecting your hands. Hope these temporary solutions may help my fellow musicians.🙂🎸
I recently acquired a Godin Grand Concert Duet Ambience guitar, which is awesome. However twice this week, and the first in over fifty years of playing, I had forearm pain when playing it after 30-45 minutes. After a YT vid from Richy Molina with describing being uncomfortable playing an older Godin, in the forearm and shoulder, it opened my eyes to this potential issue. With your conversation with Dr. Yule, I now understand so much more about what is happening with my New-to-me Godin. Thank you both for the timely discussion!
Thank you for this. I’m dealing with a hurt hand and my main concern is my guitar playing! and was happy to see this episode. Just saved me a Dr visit!
Thanks for sharing this conversation, Tim & Geoff. ❤
Great video. Super interesting. Very smart people here. Thanks Tim.
Excellent discussion, thank you!!
I battled tendonitis for 25 years. I quit eating bread, grains and legumes and anything else that causes inflammation. Just recently I quit drinking alcohol My tendonitis went into remission in my 50's and as long as I don't cheat on my diet my hands are healthier than they were when I was 32. Another thing that's a huge help is the Egoscue Clinic. They focus on posture and that too has not only cleaned up hand problems but it has also fixed my hip. Egoscue does therapy through video so no matter where you are check them out. The diet has been the biggest factor for me and I would put money down that it will be for you as well. Alcohol is the most inflammatory. To top all that off, after I quit booze my blood pressure dropped from 126/80 to 110/80. I'm now 62 and I can practice long hours with no problems. I know how frustrating this can be so I hope this helps someone out there suffering like I did for so many years.
Wow I needed this. My main job as a communications fiber optic splicer has taken a toll on my hands and fingers. Guitar is my escape from life, but the pain remains. Cheers, and Happy New Year!!
Great discussion Tim, and Dr. Yule! I did watch your previous “hand” video and found it helpful. This discussion with, as you said, “someone who knows what he’s talking about,” was great. At 70 yrs of age, I’ve had trigger finger issues (and two shots), as well as diagnosed arthritis in my hands, so although I’m nowhere near Keith’s situation(!!), I am feeling it. So, yeah, this topic hits home for many of us in this demographic. Oh, and long live stoicism😁. Be well🙏👍!
Fascinating stuff, I was hanging on every word! Tim, thanks for the insight and latitude to veer off a bit from your usual. And Dr. Geoff, thanks for the knowledge and the ability to package it in a way that is understandable to non-medical folks. (I've had tendinitis and radial [not carpal] nerve issues since 2008. Managing them with strategies that include exercises, sleep, "natural" anti-inflammatories, and increased awareness of the mechanics of playing.) This is much-needed subject matter, especially for those of us of a certain age.
Great video and so needed! Remember that we all started in a place that is smothered by the international wanting to be like the greatest that ever played! Pushing without remorse to do the impossible,but not knowing how much attention was put into how they would need to play it over and over again easily. And that is an inherent issue of study as to the suttle differences between players as to how there muscl memory landed in that song or line and there will always be a bit of different challenges for anyone else who wants to play thru perfectly and retrain there naturally occurring motion to say the least must have some detrement to lucid function of the joints and all functional components. Is it more a mental preparation than a physical that would prevent problems assuming no standing issues apply?
Thanks Tim :)
I did a quick YT search and didn't come up with any Dr. Geoff Yule videos. I believe he could provide an excellent YT channel on his own!
He and I will do another very soon to answer many of the questions that have been posted in the comments.
Wow what an informative video. Thanks Tim for making this and thanks Dr Yule for sharing your expertise.
I'm 22 and you're one of my favorite guitarists Tim. I appreciate the video though. I had some technique issues when I started playing 5 years ago that gave me some issues until I learned to fix them.
That's awesome!
amazing video!
thank you so much!
looking forward to number 2 !
Thanks to both of you for this frank and informative discussion!
I had surgery to repair a distal bicep tear in my left arm. Now I have neuropathy in my fretting hand and pain in the two joints of my thumb.
Bravo! This is how people should use their social platform. Super informative, great positive energy, and such a realistic & encouraging vibe. 🤘🏻As a luthier and a guitarist, I appreciate this content. We gotta take care of our meatbags!
Thank you so much Tim and Dr Yule!
great video on a vitally important topic for this community. Short of getting into that precious flow state when one is applying the perfect amount force at the most efficient angles,...its good to hear some expert advice for those times we need to remind ourselves to avoid bad habits.👍
Great video, something I worry about. Thank both of you for this.
Happy New Year!
Great concept for a video, thanks. Personally, I've noticed that over the past few years as I've worked to keep my sodium intake below 2K mg per day, my finger joints dramatically feel better. If I go on a week bender of salty foods, my knuckles are the first part of my body to become stiff and sore. Within a week after cutting back, my hands feel much better. Hope that helps someone...anyone.
Really helpful! Moire of this would be great for us old guys!
Such a great talk - thanks! Been playing string instruments for decades. I do have Dupuytren's Contracture in both hands (similar to trigger finger, although I believe it's classified as an autoimmune condition?). Never had carpal tunnel or RSI issues, but I do have some ulnar nerve entrapment - once again this appears to be a genetic issue, as I have an accessory muscle (aka Anconeus Epitrochlearis) causing the problem. So far I've been able to manage this through exercise and "nerve flossing".
Thanks Tim. Anyone who wants to keep their hands in good condition should avoid the mistake Clapton made.
What did Clapton do?
@@ledaswan5990 I can't tell you on this platform without being deleted. You can watch his interview on un-sen-sored platforms where you don't have to misspell everything to avoid the al-go-rhythms. I will give you a site in the form of a riddle to avoid deletion. Female dog - ute.
I had 5 trigger fingers after an emergency spine reconstruction. I got rid of then through Grandmaster Dr Kam Yuen, who, unfortunately just passed. But keeping the fingers open? I cannot recommend the Curable app enough.
Singer Aimee Mann told me about it when I had hypersensitivity to covid, which she had, too. I was out of other options and Cracks worked on my SPINE before my eyes, etc (other areas affected at the CNS from Covid Delta and 1st Covid vax shot).
ANOTHER important stretch is to stretch your fingers backwards, NOT to squeeze a ball. Squeezing a ball reinforces the locking. Stretching the fingers in a certain way backwards also helped me keep my fingers opened after the a trigger fingers were opened by Dr Yuen. (I did have one steroid injection in my thumb from a different time the thumb stayed shut.)
And, throughout my teenage years I had severe carpal tunnel, and on my early twenties I was talking to Vernon Reid (Living Colour, etc), he said I had tendonitis because I played an hour to an hour and a half after high school and work, and then played a minimum of 6 hours every Saturday and Sunday (practice &/or gigs).
He said that's akin to running two miles a day avx then running two marathons every weekend. So play the same amount a day. That made sense.
But PLEASE try Curable.
I've had a meditation practice for 34 years, but I approached that app with a Beginner's Mind. Don't say "I know this already."
I have spine injury and after 2 weeks of using Curable, it released the memory of physical pain through the latest neuroscience studies.
Ice, ice, ice.
🙏🏻🎸
Good information. I've been playing for about 50 years( classical, pop, jazz, teaching). I have never had any tendonitis, or carpal tunnel issues, but over the last 5 years have been having some stiffness and trouble reaching chords and scales with 1st or 4th finger stretches. I Had a TFCC tear ( made playing a c chord in open position painful) fixed with a cortisone shot. The biggest problem seems to be a 2nd finger(middle) metacarpophalangeal joint doesn't hyper extend like the others. That same finger has a dupuytren's chord that has been treated with Xiaflex but has returned. The contraction isn't too bad, but along with the hyper extension issue, makes playing the "C" shape chord in higher positions with a bar very slow and almost impossible. Even ascending scales are slow. I have been depressed about this for a while and your discussion about a good attitude and still get joy from playing even if you can't do what you used to be able to do was helpful. PS-- love your playing.
I am younger guy looking to pursue music, so this is helpful for me to look out for my physical health related to my occupation!
What a great and helpful video. Happy New Year!
Thanks for posting this Tim!
I have noticed quite a lot of guitarists than I know or have met have curved index fingers curving towards the pinky fingers on both hands. Coincidence? I also have psoriasis so psoriatic arthritis is something I worry about. Shawn Lane was an insanely gifted guitarist who had psoriatic arthritis and was given steroids and ultimately passed on from complications from his condition.