Tim Lerch - The Myth of Levels in Learning Music (Please click the “Thanks” button )
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2024
- Just a bit of rambling about how to keep music learning fun.
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Interesting rant. I'm always learning even at 73. However I care less about the competition that is promoted in the US. I play for me and enjoy the time. It helped me through the service in 69 and with the loss of my wife in 2016 to illness. Music is joyful and fulfilling.
Truth
I can’t add to that. My life experiences support your comment. For me, it was late-night therapy to deal with stress from work and family situations. Although it still functions that way, I find unspeakable joy when I’m playing my guitar-any time, day or night.
I agree about the competition factor. I’m about the same age. Music, to me, is about personal joy and getting to my personal best.
Seriously?! This video released on the day when I was getting down on myself for not being better at scales and technical exercises. You really are the best. Thank you for this.
So glad to be of service. 😇
I always feel I need to get better at some technical thing or another then remember that it's about the music. Just gotta focus on the music...
For what it's worth, if you feel the playing is a little stodgy at times, try alternate tunings. Even a simple Drop D tuning can open up a world of ideas. Or try playing without a pick for a few days. I've been playing for 50 plus years and one thing I know, Tim is telling the truth! And his timing IS perfect - as is his wisdom!! 👍
I enjoy the “process.” I even enjoy the physical feeling of my fingers touching the strings. I had performance anxiety at one point, and, during an interview with Robben Ford, asked him for advice. He said simply, “F*** ‘em (i.e., the audience), just play!”
Spoken like a true zen/Buddhist practitioner. The supramundane rather than the mundane. I've heard the same advice about meditation. Beginner's mind.
Perhaps we should look at 'levels' as signposts along the road of our own musical journey. While I think a certain level of dissatisfaction with our own skill level drives us forward to achieve greater things, I try not to let a label dampen my enjoyment of playing. Btw, @Tim Lerch I'm current enjoying your Jazz Blues Foundations course, learning a lot and as you say, having fun with it 😊 . Thank you, Sir.
'the progress takes care of itself if you enjoy the process '. Wise words indeed. That was an amazing and enlightening video, thank you.
Brilliant. I think I can summarize: Play for beauty and joy, not for pride.
Reminds me of the writer Allan Watts . He said, don’t try , just be. For guitarist don’t try be a guitarist….
Just be one! and make music however simplistic or intricate.
Nice guitar: Collings I-30 LC !! Wow: looks & sounds stunning :-)
Beautiful!
Is that like a Casino Coupe?
@@newgunguy4176 It's like an ES-330 or a really fancy Epiphone Casino. No center block and dual P-90s.
This video was interrupted by an ad promising to take my soloing to a new level, no lie!
Yep that’s what I’m talking about.
When I was a freshman at Berklee many guitar students thought you Must have an archtop to be a Real jazz guitarist. Then we saw and heard Lenny Breau with a Hagstrom 12 string with 6 strings on it . He proved our theory wrong. And he opened with Dont Think Twice by Dylan instead of a jazz standard. Didnt that guy hear about the Jazz Sheriff? Guess not.
Thanks Tim, this was exactly what I need to hear this morning. I’ve been practicing a lot lately, getting up at 5 every morning so I can get 2 hours in before work, and feeling like I’m not getting anywhere.
Anyone else think about Bob Ross when watching this? Enjoy like a child playing in the muck…brilliant!
If you understand this idea, you’re always next level. Thanks for sharing this thoughtful insight Tim. Take care.
A “level” implies a checklist or something. Everyone’s list will be different. Everyone’s style is different. It’s a moving target. If there’s something that interests you, learn that.
I’m just wary if the notion of “Levels” being imposed on a student from outside and adding pressure and dissatisfaction to the learning process.
100% agree. I strive to improve quickly so I can play clear and confidently and not drive my neighbors nuts and let them enjoy the occasional guitar from time to time. When it storms out, I play like a jerk on loud. Haha. No one hears (I think)
My example of this are those musicians (no names) who try to impress people by playing tune XYZ at 400 bpm. Generally speaking, I hate that. Those people also tend to play the head, then solo in the exact same way that they would over ANY song. I like to improvise too, but great melodies are what people tend to remember.
"The details don't take away the mystery"
Bullseye: you got a point! Healing !!
This is some high level wisdom right here.
I see what you did there 😆
yeah man, I hadn't played for a couple years because of this reason. It became just like another job and joyless.
A more important guitar video I have yet to see. I accidentally discovered (at age 69) recently, primarily due to my right hand being hit with severe chronic tendonitis, that developing chops for it's own sake is a loser's game. If those chops don't help you make the music that's raging in your head, then those chops are useless.
Lee Ritenour said something similar in one of his interviews, where he suggested that no matter what "level" you think you've managed to reach, always try to make music. That way, you'll always be a winner. I think Eric Johnson may have said something along those lines too.
Thank you so much for reminding all of us (well, me..!!) about the real reason we play music.
How very Zen of you Tim, a lesson that can be applied to many facets of our lives.
Perhaps the best piece of advice one could get. A story: A student goes to a Zen master and says, "Master, I want peace. how do i get it?" The master replies: first get rid of "I". That is ego. Then get rid of 'want'. That is desire. what are you left with?" This talk is the essence of Zen Mind, Beginners Mind. In the mind of the beginner all things are possible. In the expert's mind there are limited options. Most of us, including myself are guilty of being competitive at the expense of being joyfully creative. Learn the craft but remember why you are doing this. Thank you, Tim. As usual you are a bright light in the wilderness.
Hearing this has taken me to another level
Music is about creating magic. Complexity is fascinating but is not magic. Not even substitute for magic. I think what is more important than "level" is experience. And experience means the ability to be creative on stage without yielding to a pressure to try to play above your ability - playing too many meaningless notes. When I go to a jazz jam I am fully aware I cannot fool professional musicians that are with me on stage - I can play a lot of notes but they will see right through it. What I can do is play something that is melodic and evokes emotion - and it does not matter how many notes it packs. And maybe every now and then it touches magic too.
PS. And yes - you need to play every notes as if it was the most beautiful sound ever produced. Sure - you may end up failing but if you do not approach it like that then you are setting yourself for failure. Attitude and conviction are big part of success.
Even John Scofield is still working on Louie,Louie!!! See end of Beato interview and listen!!!
Hello Tim, I think what you said here is very important... I am 74 years old now and retired. I began my guitar adventure in 1960. After earning a degree in music and in education I talk guitar, songwriting, and composition for 45 years... I always believed the most important thing to instill in music students was a true understanding of the joy of music. It doesn’t matter if you were a concert performer or a front porch picker! The important thing is the fun. That wonderful feeling that lifts you from the Mundine to something really wonderful..Thank you so much for your comments
You are a very wise man , Mr. Lerch.
I, a part of the anonymous masses, have always enjoyed your playing. I believe I first found your work due to my love for Ted Greene.
I think Ted would be proud of you for this video, Tim. What you lay out here is an accurate representation of how mindful expression and intuitive learning can impact our musical experiences. This is powerful stuff.
I think that what you are interpreting as "levels" has a lot to do with personal guilt. You make comments about the comparison (not being as good as someone else (Joe Bonamassa and playing the "wiggly wiggly" lick). From my experience, the levels-learning approach is taught as a crude version of self-assessment, where self = can you play this lick exactly? What you lay out here is a bona fide counter method to guilt, one that allows students to learn at their own pace, while noting their steady progress. Nothing could be more authentic.
Who wouldn't want that instead of guilt and levels? Brilliant work, Tim. Thanks again for sharing these thoughts.
So how should a student change their perception from a level-based approach? What would you recommend, Tim?
Thank you. I would suggest examining the process rather than being obsessed with progress. If you are really “ in it” the progress takes care of itself.
That's true, but only with experience you can achieve this "level" of consciousness, in everything: music, sport, work, and start enjoying the journey.
Preach it Tim!
true, constantly striving to get to some higher level at any point in learning music is futile. If you do, then you aren't in the moment, and will never truly enjoy, appreciate or share what you're doing now. Learning music is something we do over the course of a lifetime before we're too old to do it anymore. And, the only concern I have about that is who will eventually get all my guitars
HEAR, HEAR!!! I’ve never understood the need to measure ourselves - I play as it’s an adventure and it brings me joy! 👏👏👏
Been playing guitar for many years with a long break in the middle. That break I took from the instrument truly helped me get the joy back into it. I used to be the "I'm supposed to learn this, I'm supposed to learn that" kind of person and always felt frustrated. After a few years, I took my guitar back out of the case and started with a new mindset. The key for me is "what is it that I want to express with my music? Can I do it freely? If yes, good, if not, what am I missing? What technique or piece of theory would help me achieve my goal?". This has changed my playing completely. I got back to learning how to fret triads because I wanted them to sound beautiful and that practice taught me much more than I ever learned before. Learning with joy is the key, find the beauty in what you do and you'll be fine
I don't know how to deal with this. On one hand it makes perfectly sense, on the other hand it is the opposite of what I'm doing, and if I look for fun I'm afraid I lose control on my progress, to which I'm strongly motivated. However this speech will keep me thinking for a week.
I really don’t think progress is dependent on the idea of levels, moving through levels may produce linear progress but music isn’t linear and neither are you : ) if you play with curiosity and a clear intention you’ll make progress. What I’m talking about in this video is process. Let your innate love for the music be your guide rather than an arbitrary set of sign posts that falsely indicate “progress”
I've played things on guitar for 35 years and was in several loud rock bands. Last year I quit my last band (as of now), and I feel like I've learned the guitar all over again. My focus as a performing guitarist and vocalist was on getting my parts right, but I had stopped exploring or really trying to connect with the instrument. I rarely picked it up outside of band practice unless we had a big show coming up or a particular song that was giving me trouble. I did my part capably, but not much more than that. I knew just enough theory to get by, and I went decades without truly practicing in a mindful way. When the band stuff ended, I got back the the joy when I set aside the productivity mindset: having to *do* things with my playing, as in make records, form new bands, play shows etc. I just started playing to play. And it also feels like I've improved drastically as a player over the last year, despite that not directly being the goal. I started practicing with more structure and focus than I ever had before. I push myself, but not in a way that is at all competitive. I just want to make music that sounds good to me. I get up early and have a one-hour practice routine that I reevaluate weekly with an emphasis on slow playing, tone, fundamentals, and a few songs/riffs that I want to fine-tune. I approach it like meditation - alert but relaxed. A great way to start the day and I can't wait to plug in my guitar when I wake up.
Devil's advocate here. I think I know where you are coming from and while I think levels can be an arbitrary and overused construct, it provides a framework of reference for improvement--a way to chart progression. They are easy to apply and we are familiar with the concept because we have used them from K to 12 and beyond.
As a tone deaf adult learner I really need structure to slowly peel away at playing and learning theory because youtube is one hell of a firehose--thinking in terms of levels can be a useful checklist. And while I completely agree you want to keep drudgery to a minimum and joy to the maximum, somethings you just have to have the discipline to grind if you are not comfortable with just memorizing tabs. Its great to be able to do, but I want to know what I am doing too. Love your videos btw.
Not just a great musician but a beautiful human being
A good reminder. Thank you for levelling with us. :D
I like the way you think. Thanks.
What a great topic. Such an existential problem. What makes us happy? I recently noticed on RUclips a discussion about a young up and coming being “technically “ better than B B King. This is a moot point. Does the music touch your heart and soul? That’s the determinant for me . It’s not a competition and some of the most potent music is simple.
Many years ago I saw a concert by George Van Epps and learned an important lesson. As he played you could see that he had a real joy in playing. In fact, he just kept playing until people started since he was talking to a group of guitarists he spoke about his methods of learning and what he said was that he was a lifetime learner. Yet, at the same time, he enjoyed the music he played at every step. Of course, this didn't mean that he didn't work hard and, that he had days of playing scales and such. As far as I'm concerned, there has to be a certain amount of study in sometimes it can be bored but you then take what you've learned and you play trying to incorporate those skills.
I've been playing for 50 years and I to find that every day I desire to learn more and, for me, that is part of the joy of being a musician.
Thank you Tim, for making this video.
nice... f'ing zen, Tim. Tonight as I was heading home I was thinking maybe I should learn Spanish to relax and I think wait, what happened to guitar for relaxation? For 40 years I said I wouldn't "study" guitar and then the last 10 I studied jazz. With mixed results. Sometimes I think I've forgotten how to play guitar all together. So thank you for reminding us what its all about.
"There's no level to beauty" This is amazing 👏
Very kind, generous chat Tim. Wondering if you wouldn't mind speaking a little bit about overwhelm with regards to how much there really is(has always been) to learn? Totally agree about "finding joy-in-process" and accepting where one is in the process but some of us have literally spent a lifetime struggling with (and avoiding) feeling overwhelmed by the amount that there is to learn. I'm in my mid-fifties now and only began to hang up the "hair shirt" a few years ago. The decades I have spent comparing myself to others feels like such wasted time but I suppose it's part of the process as well. We only know what we know, when we know it. It certainly is an education (life, that is...)
Great advice. I've always tried to enjoy creating music wherever I'm at. I'll never be able to play like John McLaughlin or Joe Pass, or "insert name here". It's totally about the process..! I love making stuff up on the spot with sympatico musicians. Been playing and learning for over 45 years and definitely will continue learning for the rest of my days. But playing in the moment is my favourite place to be. Thanks for a great reminder of why we play!!
Or sigh Lenny Breau
good video Tim, I started learning at 55 and every day , I'm learning something or discover something on the guitar that gives better insights and all these small progressions make me what I am as a free time musician today. That gives the joy ! knowing thtat It's a constant progress that evolutes with small and bigger steps.
I often wonder how much being easily amused plays into one's longevity in playing an instrument.
I think it really benefited me to honestly be able to just enjoy making melodies with the open strings before I even owned a guitar...., but also have a drive towards excellence.
Same thing when I learned to play cowboy chords or movable barre chords or to play by key or shell chords or how to use chromaticism............
I guess it's often also about questioning oneself about being loved for playing which neurotically takes over the love of playing for its own sake. Playing also involves expressing oneself and wanting to be heard, acknowledged, recognised, loved, admired, oh dear... we lose ourselves and the most basic truths and feelings. Like "next level" translates to "more likes", "more attention", "more fame" etc. And then you just feel empty and stupid because you basically sold your soul for an illusion, for hot air. I guess the real "next level" is simply coming back, again and again, to where you're at.
Perfectly said Sir: However; I only have 1 level: and that is to master my Fred Sokolow lessons until I remember and play them perfectly, then if that doesn't pack out the Stadium, then I guess I'm better than the Stadium
Enjoy 😊
Bingo ! Thanks Tim
Oh man do I ever wish my parents hadn’t named me Level.
Yeah deffo identify with the idea of levels/comparisons which is a hangover from School's /universities and kinda perpetuated throughout formative life experience ...
I love this. Thank you so much, Tim. 😊
Epiphany=Joy, approaching satisfaction and contentment.
Thank you 🥰
.
Yes, thanks.
Wow that collings is a special looking guitar . And sounding
Thank for your words and feeling for music
You're absolutely right. The key is the word 'play'.
I agree with you 100 % ... I am 66 and still growing but my main creations that are lovely just address my feelings .... Feelings are never the same... Lately I play every day and I am just in Love with music and my Guitars that have different tones and give me different ideas and colors . I don't want to sound like someone else. I want to sound like me.... Thanks a lot .... Just play ....
I love you Tim Lerch for pointing this out. I truly agree. Music is about finding joy. Of course, there are struggles and hurdles one has to overcome. But we can always make music that sounds pleasing wherever we are on our journey. 😊
Thanks for this « little rambling »… it helped me enjoy playing guitar today ❤
You’re kind of the jazz version of what @ActiveMelody channel is for blues…
You both make me want to appreciate playing guitar « at my current level » 👍
Great video! When I was twelve years old, I got my first guitar and I often played 'Satisfaction' by the Rolling Stones. My time feel was bad and my tone control was even worse, but the feeling I got was phenomenal. It was an escape. It gave me comfort. I felt peaceful. No thoughts about the future and no thoughts about the past. Just pure experience! It's been 30 years, I still play the guitar and it still makes me very happy. Thank you Tim :) I agree with everything you say in this video.
thanks,tim hermoso y verdadero....
i do four things - listen, technique, my own music and learn music of others. and i agree with what you said in the video.
Thanks Tim! I recovered the joy of learning/playing guitar with your courses for solo guitar from Truefire
Thank you for being willing to put honesty and music above the common advertising approach, loved this
Thanks for this. Had not watched this one and today was the day I needed to hear exactly this.
Thanks for the reminder. Such an important lesson
Jeff Bridges could play you in your bio-pic. Thanks for this video!!!
Great words. Thank you.
I think another way to sum up what you said is to play for the joy of playing, and not to become better. There will be times in which becoming better will make sense, and it will contribute to your happiness. But if we are always preoccupied with “becoming” better then we lose all joy!
thank you for reminding us of the joy of music 😊
A very timely reminder for myself. Thanks
An old saying is “don’t miss the journey for the destination”.
Great word brother!! 🙏
You are blessed by the Universe. P-90s! Cool guitar.
Thank you Tim.
Tim: This is so thoughtful and sublime. Thank you.
To reinforce what you are saying, I have a friend that is a great sax player. He went to college to study jazz. He still plays gigs. But he dropped out of Jazz School, probably a good move and got a degree in statistics. He is very smart. But, he was always tense and unhappy with his playing. I would tell him, enjoy what you are doing, enjoy the process. You will be better. He admonished me "it's not about enjoyment it's about practice and improvement". He is certainly a better sax player than I am a guitar player but I think maybe I enjoy it more than he does or at least it doesn't cause me ulcers. Peace
As somebody who struggles with music theory, these words help me relax a bit. Especially when I feel I'm getting nowhere. Sometimes I just forget that when I get to the next plateu I forget to enjoy the view and play about a while.
Thank you for the golden words!
Thanks Tim I really needed to hear that. I kinda lost the joy lately and didn't feel what I played anymore. That speaks directly to my heart
Right on!
Thank you wise man. I like your way of thinking, it reinforces what I started to think in recent years. I come from a classical music background and as a teacher I have noticed a loss of joy in some of my students as they progress technically. I started to focus more on the authenticity of their playing, being present in every note they play, regardless of tempo or sound. The results are mostly positive but it is still a work in progress. Also, I like your playing, thanks for this channel.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, I fall victim to self- imposed pressure to be good/ better. It has robbed me of joy and keeps me as a slave to practicing with the hope of being better. It is only recently that I'm enjoying the moment while I'm playing. I'm learning that joy in playing is accepting and appreciating "what is" this moment rather than thinking in this moment "what could be"
Thank you again for this most important lesson.
Thanks Tim - for such a sage insight - thanks Nick Australia
You’ve been the Number one influence for me to pick up my guitar and really learn it. But even more important… You are a true shaman musician. And the magic that flows through you and outwards both from musical expression and words of inspiration, is your viewpoint… And your expression of that viewpoint, which makes you an outstanding human being, then radiates outwards expressing itself through your teaching, through your guitar playing .
Stay close to who you are. Always continue to inspire. Thanks
I totally get what you’re saying Tim..! Great advice.!
Thoughtful and perceptive...a comment from one of the anonymous masses who regularly watches your always valuable clips.
beautiful, thanks Tim!
Very well put.
Great talk. Lot of wisdom. I'm going to have to come back to this one regularly when I get down on my ability.
Thanks for sharing all this musical wisdom Master Tim Yoda. I almost can hear you changing words through the frases wile teaching us connect to the force (music)
I couldn’t agree more!!
Absolutely!!! Thx for posting!
I found this to be one of your most meaningful, enjoyable and helpful lessons/discussions. Thank you!
This definitely helps! Thanks Tim
Amazing insight! Thank you
The store cashier recommended Mel Bay books to me in the early 1970s, and guitar magazines really cater to advertisers. I ended up teaching myself from scratch.
The best words from the zen tele master