I emailed Paul years ago about adding a subwoofer to 2-channel system. He responded to me with wonderful advice and encouragement. Here’s what I learned. 1. Buy a subwoofer. 2. The sub should always sound natural. 3. You should never notice it’s there. I bought an Elac 10” sub with a passive 10” additionally with a 400 watt BASH amp. If you set it up correctly it should fill in the bass, never color the sound. It’s made such a huge difference. I’m so pleased he talked me in to it. Thanks Paul.
I'm a huge proponent of buying the biggest woofer you can possibly afford. My theater is 1200 square feet and I have (13) 18-inch subwoofers in it. My bedroom is 16x16x12 and has (4) 15-inch subwoofers in it. Solid, tight, controlled, bass is all about moving air effectively. The more cone area and amplification you have (i.e. big power, big drivers) the less you have to increase gain. The less you have to increase gain, the less those drivers have to move for the same amount of sound. The less those drivers have to move, the more controlled those super low notes become! I have response clear down to 6Hz in my theater and it's amazingly controlled. If I had the money for 24" drivers, I'd have those instead. So yes, buy the bigger drivers because no one has ever set up a listening room or theater and said "you know, I wish my subs were smaller", LOL!
In case this information is useful: my experience of running large PA systems (usually with 10 sub cabinets per side, for scale context) I’ve noticed I needed a mixture of sub sizes. We have subs with dual 18” drivers that have, surely, lots of low end, but because of the physical sizes of the woofers, getting them to move quickly and catch transients is difficult. So we also add in cabs that have 15” and 12” woofers. They can “kick in” faster and catch transients more quickly, so therefor give a clearer low-end representation. The higher drivers handle the 160 down to 60Hz range, the 18” drivers handle the 60Hz downward range.
It is all about price/performance/size. You could use a whole bunch of 10 inch woofers to the same effect the only problem is you would need a bunch more of them. This would likely cost more and would likely be much larger. For instance Phil Jones uses 16x5'' drivers in one of is bass cabs and it goes down 20hz. In the end there is more than one way to skin a cat. pjbworld.com/cms/index.php/products-cabinets/
@@howardskillington4445 The quality of low bass is almost always better and has lower distortion with larger cones. Check distortion measurements at data-bass.com.
@@gregworrel2623 Absolutely! Like we say in the engine rebuild community, there's no substitute for displacement! Back to speakers, A well engineered smaller woofer may approach the output & quality of a less engineered larger woofer, but it would also end up costing the same or even more! I'd rather have the larger, low-tech woofer for simplicity & serviceability. High tech speakers can be a nightmare to modify or repair when they stop working. A simple, robust piece of equipment can be repaired beyond the life of its owner!
“Two 8 inch drivers have more square footage than a single 12” This is not true! A 12 inch driver has about 10% more surface area than two eight inch drivers.
@@mikaelmllersnnichsen539 Your math is correct . A typical 8 inch driver has about 210 cm^2 of surface area . A typical 12 inch has about 500 cm^2 surface area . So two 8 inches will have about 16% lower surface area than one 12 inch , and on top of that also lower max excursion (on average).
Hi Paul. I am glad to listen again. I've been wandering off in the land of historical sewing. I keep wondering about home construction, especially insulation and how that has impacted fashion design. I'm sure it has also impacted home acoustics over time as well.
Room size matters to the volume (aka sound pressure level in db) the sub can produce without distortion. For example, A small 8" sub isn't going to be able to hit 105 db reference level with low distortion.
If you put in drivers specs into a program like winISD you see that, generally speaking, 1 bigger woofers extends deeper than 2 or more smaller ones. But that's just a general guideline and not true in general. Especially if the drivers are of the same type. But using DSP or any type of EQing, it is possible to get deeper response of several small ones compared to a big one. It all comes down to how hard a driver has to work at a given frequency to achieve a sufficient amount of air displacement, hence soundpressure. But big woofers need much bigger boxes so if space is a criterion, often several small woofers beat a big one. Some say small woofers respond "faster" but I'm not sure if that's relevant for frequencies below 60Hz...
I always found 12” to be the sweet spot for subs for me. 15” and bigger are low and loud but too slow, 10” and smaller are nice and fast but lacking the low frequencies and volume.
@@Steven--- you’re ignoring the point that there is far more mass to move and they move to an excursion decided by the physical design of the motor assembly. It’s physics. They travel to th limit identified in the electrical signal fed to them. A poorly designed 12 can be slower than an excellently designed 18 but apples to apples the 10 or 12 will be quicker and more responsive.
@@rapfreak7797 My 18" can play clearly till 100hz so unless you want to go above that then its not slow. Although I think its not necessarily a slowness that linits it higher but driver membrane resonance. If you would dampen the driver membrane you should be able to go higher.
i am under the impression that yes the larger cone surface area will increase bass both in depth and db. but to a point the more the cone moves the more distortion it creates. so for tight detailed bass you want as little cone movement as possible.
In the physical science model of a given conventional woofer operating on an infinite baffle (half space, 2pi spherical) at flat frequency response (constant SPL with respect to frequency), there is an inverse square relationship between excursion and frequency, quadruple excursion required at halved frequency (one octave lower), 9,900.0% increase (100x) in excursion required at 90.0% reduction (1/10) in frequency (one decade lower). A restatement of the model holding excursion constant and allowing SPL to vary as a function of frequency, likewise a woofer operating on infinite baffle, at constant excursion it exhibits a 12_dB/octave high pass slope in the frequencies of interest. This can be more generalized, where SPL as being largely a function of volume*velocity of the pistonic diaphragm (other aspects held constant) which is the product the RMS velocity and swept volume of the diaphragm exhibiting sinusoidal linear pistonic motion. In the preceding paragraph, that simplifies to relative change in excursion requirements. Close proximity to a room boundary adds boundary reinforcement, +6_dB for each rigid boundary added, a room corner having 3 boundaries (however one boundary may already be include in voltage sensitivity specification if measured in half space and not corrected to free field). The point source propagates -6_dB per doubling of distance, -20*log(n) where n=d2/d1, where d2 is the propagation distance between source and listener, and d1 is the reference distance. Most usually in voltage sensitivity ratings, 2.83_Vrms is used as the reference voltage and 1.0_m is used as the reference distance. So, if meters are used in the calculation, d1=1.0_m and d2/d1=d2. And for example, propagation over 2.0_m distance is -20*log(2)= -6_dB relative to SPL at 1.0_m distance. At 4.0_m distance, -20*log(4)= -12_dB relative to SPL at 1.0_m. There are also considerations of interference of Eigentones associated with the room's modal response (fundamentals and integer harmonics up through the Schroeder frequency), possible Helmholtz resonances among rooms (enclosed compliant air volumes) interconnected with doorways, hallways, air vents and ductwork, and there may be some low frequency cabin gain in a sufficiently tight, rigid, small space. For that cabin gain, don't underestimate the needed rigidity and tightness. A reinforced concrete wall backed by earth offers good rigidity, while a wall construction of gypsum wallboard and/or plywood over studs stuffed with insulation is just an acoustic low pass filter with some frequency dependent damping.
Also, some in the comments thread are comparing woofers by nominal sizes, and it should be mentioned that the nominal sizes of woofers can be misleading as a representation of the effective pistonic diaphragm diameter. The Thiel-Small parameter "Sd" is the associated area (usually stated in square centimeters), and that can be converted to a diameter, which is usually much smaller than the nominal diameter. Consider that the OD of a conventional woofer surround is attached to the frame and does not move as the woofer excurses, while the ID is attached to the woofer cone and moves with the cone as the woofer excurses. The venerable Peerless 12 inch XLS model 830500 (now out of regular production, but still available to OEMs by special order in large quantities) provides a good example. The outside diameter of the frame's conventional circular mounting flange is 308_mm (12.13_in), and the effective pistonic diaphragm diameter is 244_mm (9.61_in). Xmax is 12.5_mm peak, 25_mm peak-peak. The Peerless 8 inch XLS model 850491 (likewise now out of regular production) has a truncated frame, the outside diameter of the circular portions of the mounting flange is 225_mm (8.86_in), and is 205_mm (8.07_in) across the flats of the truncated portion of the mounting flange. The effective pistonic diaphragm diameter is 173_mm (6.81_in), and Xmax is 10_mm peak, 20_mm peak-peak. Relative to the 8 inch XLS, the 12 inch XLS has 25% longer stroke and 41% larger effective pistonic diaphragm diameter, and 99% larger radiating area. Diameter comparison: 244/173= 1.41 which is a 41% increase. Area comparison: 1.41^2=1.9881 which is a 99% increase. (You can calculate the ratio of the areas long hand to find the same result as the square of the ratio of the diameters.)
@@janetyer7147 Have you written books on this stuff?!! You explained stuff so well... I always wondered about what you said... intuitively the cone indeed can move more to and fro in the center than at the edges joined to the surrounds which in turn is glued to a fixed rim... thanks once again for wonderful explanation.
Paul I know you aren't writing these in advance but I do wish you would try to be a little more careful in your word choice. It is not that an 8 inch woofer can't produce low frequency. I have heard plenty that can. It is usually that they can't produce enough to be audible. At this very moment I am listening on ear buds and just to check I pulled up a tone generator. These couple mm drivers are able to reproduce a 20hz tone. This only works because they are in the sealed cavity of my ear very close to my ear drums. Even then it was fairly quite so it would be covered up by louder frequencies when listening to music. The point is that drivers can go lower than people think. The problem is that smaller drivers usually don't go loud enough at low frequencies to matter.
The amount of air that must be moved increases exponentially as the frequencies go down. The amount of air that can be moved is a function of the surface of the drivers and their throw or movement back and forth. Then one has to calculate how low they can go. It's relatively simple and things like driver diameter don't really give that much information. Of course, neither do marketing releases...
I have used the likes of kef and rel before. But wasn't too keen. I went for a bk electronics 12 inch woofer paired with my monitor audios for my hifi. Built by a smalll company in the uk (essex) with the optional high pass lead. Sealed design and find 12s are the perfect balance in my room. Nice tight controlled bass, not interested in extention when it comes to music. Just tight a clean. Tuning of the box and port design is a major factor too. I also have an svs pb2000 pro for my home cinema. Not so good at music. Kind of sloppy if im honest, but for extention in action scenes jesus does it throw some air! It just doesn't give up! Both 12s but totally different bass output. Detailed controlled depth of a sealed and sheer brute force of the ported svs. Totally agree with you on subwoofers for music! Its amazing how you can look at a huge subwoofer when bought and you think, look at this elephant in the room. But once set up, close your eyes. It just disappears! Had many comments from friends asking how my monitor audios go so low. They don't even know i have a subwoofers. They have to be told.
Given that watts is now relatively cheap with class D amplification, a sub with an 8-inch driver can now reach lower frequencies and play louder in ways that were impossible just 15 years before.
I have always wondered why I could place my subwoofer with the ears... Today I played with the phase and finds out it’s perfect at 157 degrees out of phase... And it’s a big 15 inch sub... So it’s also the phase there’s important...
A 12" sub-woofer will go deep. But it will not be a nimble as an 8" sub-woofer. Assuming the same build quality, where both size woofers share a common frequency, the smaller driver will probably be faster in being activated, and this could result in tighter bass. At volume, the larger woofer will move more air. But if you have a quality 8" or 10" sub-woofer, then you will have to go pretty loud to reach their straining point, to where the 12" woofer is still in its comfort zone. In the end, there is really no way to know which size or which brand will sound best with your equipment in your room. Like most things audio, you have to hear it in your listening room. It is the only way to really know which is best for your listening environment. Cheers!
All things being equal, that is; a larger cone size needs a comparably bigger enclosure volume to maintain bass depth over a smaller unit. A bigger driver alone doesn't go deeper per se, though it has more output for a given excursion. So, it's the relation between the driver size and enclosure volume mainly that determines the extension, right?
Interestingly, bass players often are not as concerned with making the 42 Hz fundamental (of a common 4-string bass) loud as they are concerned with midrange articulation. Hence the smaller drivers.
Hopefully this long project duration means they are doing amazing stuff. I like to see an outstanding SPL, transient and low distortion response in the bass through servo feedback. They should also include active phase optimized cross-over filtering. If PS Audio can do great amps and speakers...they seriously need to combine the skills to the next level. What we don't need is just another 1980s engineering-level sort of old-school passive speaker that won't beat what we've seen before.
Put bluntly, and ever so more important with bass: there's no replacement for displacement, and headroom is your friend. It's why I have a pair of high efficiency, 15"-loaded tapped horn subs in my home set-up. 20 cf. volume per cab, and the 15" cone area is force multiplied via the tapped horn loading into the equivalent of roughly 2x 18" direct radiating woofers - per sub. Anyone believing such capacity isn't about bass quality fails to realize the prevailing logic behind minimizing cone movement; the less movement the lower the distortion and the cleaner the bass. Only one proviso: size, but for those who're able to accommodate it, it's a win-win.
It's a complex relationship with the loudspeakers... You don't want to pair a 12-in sub with 4-in bookshelves. If you had a 6.5" speaker bass driver, you would want to pair with a 8-in or 10-in sub... has to be small enough for the loud speakers to reach down to the crossover frequencies. So "yes" sub size matters, in different situations.
A 12 is 144 and two 8’s are 128, so the single 12 is larger. We skip the pi and halving the diameter when comparing round areas in the water distribution business for speed of comparison.
@@geoff37s38 yes it does. The only unique factor in the equation for the area of a circle is? The diameter/radius. All the rest is constants. Therefore, solving for the difference in diameter squared gives you a quick method for comparing cross sectional area of a circle.
cone area = max output. every time the cone area doubles you get 6DB more output. this assumes the cone excursion is the same. lets say you have two 12" woofers, one has a max excursion of .26 inches and the other has a max excursion of .13 inches. the woofer with .26 inches excursion will have 6DB greater max bass output than the .13 inch excursion woofer. HOWEVER, the .13 inch excursion woofer will likely have greater effiency . put simply.....get the biggest most cone area speakers you can afford IF you like very loud music.
No, you are not anywhere near correct in your numbers. The nominal size of a woofer can be misleading as a representation of the effective pistonic diaphragm diameter. The Thiel-Small parameter "Sd" is the associated area (usually stated in square centimeters), and that can be converted to a diameter, which is usually much smaller than the nominal diameter. Consider that the OD of a conventional woofer surround is attached to the frame and does not move as the woofer excurses, while the ID is attached to the woofer cone and moves with the cone as the woofer excurses. The venerable Peerless 12 inch XLS model 830500 (now out of regular production, but still available to OEMs by special order in large quantities) provides good example. The outside diameter of the frame's conventional circular mounting flange is 308_mm (12.13_in), and the effective pistonic diaphragm diameter is 244_mm (9.61_in). Xmax is 12.5_mm peak, 25_mm peak-peak. The Peerless 8 inch XLS model 850491 (likewise now out of regular production) has a truncated frame, the outside diameter of the circular portions of the mounting flange is 225_mm (8.86_in), and is 205_mm (8.07_in) across the flats of the truncated portion of the mounting flange. The effective pistonic diaphragm diameter is 173_mm (6.81_in), and Xmax is 10_mm peak, 20_mm peak-peak. Relative to the 8 inch XLS, the 12 inch XLS has 25% longer stroke and 41% larger effective pistonic diaphragm diameter, and 99% larger radiating area, which is very nearly double, and is very much more than the 13% increase that you stated. Diameter: 244/173= 1.41 which is 41% increase. Area: 1.41^2=1.9881 which is 99% increase (You can calculate the ratio of the areas long hand to find the same result as the square of the ratio of the diameters.)
Take no notice of those polite or diplomatic people who tell you size doesn’t matter. It emphatically does! I must correct paul on this:- a 12 inch sub has a surface area of 113 square inches. A 8 inch sub has a surface area of approximately 50 square inches. So, 2 8 inch subs have a total surface area of roughly 100 square inches and therefore their combined surface area is actually less than that of a 12 inch sub!
Room has huge impact on subwoofer ULF! The reinforcement from a room is huge. A subwoofer outdoors in an open will have much less SPL power as there is no reinforcement from walls or an enclosed space.
Random things on the table can be used as a demo of a speaker cone :-) Paul is great at improvising. Small rooms can get away with smaller drivers. My Etymotic ER2XR earbuds with a fraction of an inch of diameter can do excellent deep sub bass into the rooms called "my ear canals".
It's about excursion bigger drive has less excursion for a given amount of air what is less distortion in the driver. as you hear with car subwoofers there is tons of distortion from the driver. and you have to take into account the size of the box for low frequency has to be bigger that's why isobaric loading is the best for subwoofer because you half the size of the given volume better control low frequency roll-off
Woofer size does not determine how low in frequency a woofer will play. If that were true then it would be impossible for headphones to play low bass. Any size cone can play any frequency. The difference is the SPL that can be produced. The bigger the cone and the greater the excursion, the louder it can play at any given frequency. So to play low bass at volumes that are useful for music and movies, big cones have a huge advantage.
Incorrect. Two 8in drivers do not have more cone area than one 12in driver, the 12 has approx 115 sq in compared to approx 100 sq in for two 8 drivers. This could have been explained far more clearly. Tapping the driver cone with a finger will demonstrate the 12 cone has a lower natural resonant frequency compared to an 8. This is a very important factor and determines how low the driver will go without unacceptable distortion. In general, a 12 will go lower but at the expense of speed and transients due to higher cone mass. It is not “about total mass” as Paul incorrectly states, it is about piston size/throw and the ability to pressurise the room.
Room size / volume is important for lower frequencies because of the length of the sound wave needs room to hit in...there is also room resonance/acoustics that play their part too. So many other factors play into a sub as well, more importantly what you want the sub for is even more critical; music or movies? Larger subs are usually slower (less accurate) but deeper, also box size plays into it as well and this usually results in more SPL which are better suited for movies. Technically Paul is correct that two 8" subs can go lower than a single 12" but I have never seen this in a real world application...so far; mainly because of driver design plus box size. To get one sub that can do both music and movies you will pay through the nose for sadly. www.jlaudio.com/collections/home-audio-fathom-v2/products/f113v2-gloss-home-audio-fathom-v2-powered-subwoofers-96142
You can play a tiny 1" speaker at 25hz but it will never be able to move enough air mass per second for you to hear it. Play the same 1" speaker at 2500hz and you are now moving 1000 times more air per second.
@@stonefree1911 Well I know they were working on them. Paul even showed us some prototypes in past videos. I just want to know when they're coming out, even if it won't be in the near future.
The speaker enclosure has almost everything to do with how low in frequency you ca go and still hear sound. try to compare the bass reproduction in a 10L enclosure and a 80-100L enclosure....
I've run into the opposite. Have 6.5 in bookshelves that produces more bass, tighter base, than towers with three 5-in drivers. I'll take one legit driver over cheap multiples any day.
Reproducing bass frequencies is a very complicated subject and unfortunately there are so many variables to consider that Paul could never possibly cover them all. This audiophile disease is going to kill me
Can anyone tell me the difference between a car subwoofer driver or a subwoofer driver used for home theater? Can I use a car subwoofer driver in a home theater?
2 8" drivers don't produce lower frequencies, and the single 12" driver doesn't produce lower frequencies either. Lower frequency simply put means the driver moves slower over a given time period. What Paul was talking about and again his cocktail napkin math is way off is the ability to "couple" with the air or put another way to get air moving at the same frequency aka speed as the driver. Air is a group of molecules of a certain density in space, the air molecules having a physical mass and size. One of the physical laws of the universe simply state that things at rest tend to stay at rest. Air has a resistance to changing it's at rest state to being moved. A woofer's surface traps some air and shoves it forward and back causing a wave in the space it sits in. This wave moves in the room in a more spherical shape the lower the frequency gets and more like a narrowing conical shape the higher the frequency gets. The narrowing effect is due to the air requiring more energy to move faster, aka at a higher frequency, so any angle off axis to the driver's forward and back movement gets absorbed more the higher the frequency goes. And to drive a speaker surface at higher frequency using the same energy levels requires the size of the speaker to get smaller because that air resistance is there. That's why tweeters are smaller than midranges and woofers are bigger. How they move the air most efficiently depends on the frequency they are trying to move the air. A small tweeter can reproduce frequencies down to 20 Hz and lower, it just requires more surface area to get it moving with any volume level. Conversely a woofer can reproduce 20Khz signals, but would require more wattage to drive at that frequency and need to be made to a more rigid and stronger level to survive for long because of that air resistance being worse the higher the frequency. So to sum up, better coupling to the air at lower frequencies means you can drive the air mass at higher volume levels at those harder to drive lower frequencies. Being able to reproduce higher volume levels mean you get to actually hear those frequencies at the listening level of the rest of the frequencies being reproduced. So the more air you can couple to, the more you can balance the lower frequencies' volume to the rest of the higher frequency material being reproduced. There are other issues other than just size, you need to support that larger moving mass against being deflected off axis by the air's resistance to moving. The more you try to move air, the more you need to counteract deflection from air resistance. AKA larger stiffer spider, larger voice coil and larger magnet, stiffer cone, more accurately sized surround and mated to the cone more accurately as well, more perfectly centered cone and more equidistant from the coil it needs to be. It's cheaper and easier to a speaker manufacturer who also manufactures their own drivers to use smaller drivers in groupings to get more air moving at low frequencies. Also smaller drivers allow narrower cabinets which means wider acceptance with general market trends for "attractive" designs.
Loudspeakers and subs really pressurized a room and your ears. That is why you should clear your ears sometimes if you hear a drop in lower and mid range sounds Eg pinch nostrils, close mouth, breath out gently. Like after a swim.
I am SOFA KING curious as to who PS Audio chose to supply their drive units! Eminence perhaps? Theyre american. Or did they go for some fancy European supplier. Cant imagine they went Asian, not that it all really matters, but it sorta kinda does for the real hair splitters out there! Is that a PASSIVE RADIATOR I spy with my little eye back there? THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME, RELEASE A DAMN SET OF SPEAKERS ALREADY PAUL!
So many things not entirely accurate with those 2 simple statements. All air movement results in sound, vibration is movement, and sound is caused by the ear drum being vibrated/excited usually by air movement but you could be underwater or drowning in an oil drum for that matter and hear things.
Please someone educate this man before he starts telling nonsense. How low driver can go depends of many factors, two most important are box design and driver design. Even very small drivers can go low but not with the same spl. If you want to go an octave lower wits the same spl you will need 4x more cone area so lets say 4 drivers instead of one. One driver will go also low but with less spl than 4 drivers obviously
He trips up over his own words quite often. It's "mass". Pertaining to what? Moving mass of driver? Cone? No, it isn't. It's displacement of air volume, which can affect air mass movement. Cone surface area and travel (excursion) have no direct relation to cone mass. True, larger cones tend to require more massive material, but there is no direct relation, as larger, more efficient drivers generally use materials of lower density and higher quality than smaller, cheaper, less efficient woofer drivers. I do get a kick out of these video clips, though. One intriguing aspect of following these videos is finding the errors.
How does this technical dude not know what liner XMax is or a driver's Fs,or the true cone area that includes half the surround .... also why did he not mention coil size weight And it's penalty on efficiency,with the use of more watts to be louder... Just a all around horrible explanation of crucial differences in woofer's sizes and the correlation of effect... Somebody please start this man a GoFundMe (he needs more schooling). sorry not at all feeling bad...
I emailed Paul years ago about adding a subwoofer to 2-channel system.
He responded to me with wonderful advice and encouragement.
Here’s what I learned. 1. Buy a subwoofer. 2. The sub should always sound natural. 3. You should never notice it’s there.
I bought an Elac 10” sub with a passive 10” additionally with a 400 watt BASH amp. If you set it up correctly it should fill in the bass, never color the sound.
It’s made such a huge difference.
I’m so pleased he talked me in to it. Thanks Paul.
Great to hear that Chris is still part off Paul's team. Note to Paul. We need to see more of Chris.
Chris Cross ❌
as soon as he becomes more..... _comfortable_ in front of a camera.
I'm a huge proponent of buying the biggest woofer you can possibly afford. My theater is 1200 square feet and I have (13) 18-inch subwoofers in it. My bedroom is 16x16x12 and has (4) 15-inch subwoofers in it. Solid, tight, controlled, bass is all about moving air effectively. The more cone area and amplification you have (i.e. big power, big drivers) the less you have to increase gain. The less you have to increase gain, the less those drivers have to move for the same amount of sound. The less those drivers have to move, the more controlled those super low notes become! I have response clear down to 6Hz in my theater and it's amazingly controlled. If I had the money for 24" drivers, I'd have those instead. So yes, buy the bigger drivers because no one has ever set up a listening room or theater and said "you know, I wish my subs were smaller", LOL!
In case this information is useful: my experience of running large PA systems (usually with 10 sub cabinets per side, for scale context) I’ve noticed I needed a mixture of sub sizes. We have subs with dual 18” drivers that have, surely, lots of low end, but because of the physical sizes of the woofers, getting them to move quickly and catch transients is difficult. So we also add in cabs that have 15” and 12” woofers. They can “kick in” faster and catch transients more quickly, so therefor give a clearer low-end representation. The higher drivers handle the 160 down to 60Hz range, the 18” drivers handle the 60Hz downward range.
It is all about price/performance/size. You could use a whole bunch of 10 inch woofers to the same effect the only problem is you would need a bunch more of them. This would likely cost more and would likely be much larger. For instance Phil Jones uses 16x5'' drivers in one of is bass cabs and it goes down 20hz. In the end there is more than one way to skin a cat. pjbworld.com/cms/index.php/products-cabinets/
And that is why I have an 18" subwoofer.
There are, of course, other qualitative issues to consider.
@@howardskillington4445 The quality of low bass is almost always better and has lower distortion with larger cones. Check distortion measurements at data-bass.com.
@@gregworrel2623 Absolutely! Like we say in the engine rebuild community, there's no substitute for displacement!
Back to speakers, A well engineered smaller woofer may approach the output & quality of a less engineered larger woofer, but it would also end up costing the same or even more!
I'd rather have the larger, low-tech woofer for simplicity & serviceability. High tech speakers can be a nightmare to modify or repair when they stop working.
A simple, robust piece of equipment can be repaired beyond the life of its owner!
What? Only one??? 😀
@@larryeckerdt9750 😂😂😂😂
Note to Chris: Please check Paul's calculations and resulting confusions before you let him turn on the camera.
“Two 8 inch drivers have more square footage than a single 12” This is not true! A 12 inch driver has about 10% more surface area than two eight inch drivers.
It's straight math: a 12" has slightly bigger (i.e.: ~10%) cone area than 2 x 8" dittos. r² x pi.
@@mikaelmllersnnichsen539 Your math is correct . A typical 8 inch driver has about 210 cm^2 of surface area . A typical 12 inch has about 500 cm^2 surface area . So two 8 inches will have about 16% lower surface area than one 12 inch , and on top of that also lower max excursion (on average).
No, but approx 13inches more on a 12inch driver than two 8.
also a 12 will usually have a higher linear travel than a 8, unless it's a very beefy 8''.
Paul didn't have his calculator on him to do PI()* R^2.
That 8” in a nice horn enclosure. 👍🏻
2 of them in Martin Audio MLX subwoofer enclosure like design for maximum SPL.
Hi Paul. I am glad to listen again. I've been wandering off in the land of historical sewing. I keep wondering about home construction, especially insulation and how that has impacted fashion design. I'm sure it has also impacted home acoustics over time as well.
Paul seems like such a hard worker, it’s inspiring.
This guy is cool, and not cool at the same time. Bless his heart
I guess Paul meant 2x 8" is a larger area than a single 10".
Room size matters to the volume (aka sound pressure level in db) the sub can produce without distortion. For example, A small 8" sub isn't going to be able to hit 105 db reference level with low distortion.
If you put in drivers specs into a program like winISD you see that, generally speaking, 1 bigger woofers extends deeper than 2 or more smaller ones. But that's just a general guideline and not true in general. Especially if the drivers are of the same type.
But using DSP or any type of EQing, it is possible to get deeper response of several small ones compared to a big one.
It all comes down to how hard a driver has to work at a given frequency to achieve a sufficient amount of air displacement, hence soundpressure.
But big woofers need much bigger boxes so if space is a criterion, often several small woofers beat a big one.
Some say small woofers respond "faster" but I'm not sure if that's relevant for frequencies below 60Hz...
I always found 12” to be the sweet spot for subs for me. 15” and bigger are low and loud but too slow, 10” and smaller are nice and fast but lacking the low frequencies and volume.
I have 18s, they aren't slow. They don't have to travel as far for the same volume.
@@Steven--- you’re ignoring the point that there is far more mass to move and they move to an excursion decided by the physical design of the motor assembly. It’s physics. They travel to th limit identified in the electrical signal fed to them. A poorly designed 12 can be slower than an excellently designed 18 but apples to apples the 10 or 12 will be quicker and more responsive.
@@rapfreak7797 My 18" can play clearly till 100hz so unless you want to go above that then its not slow. Although I think its not necessarily a slowness that linits it higher but driver membrane resonance. If you would dampen the driver membrane you should be able to go higher.
i am under the impression that yes the larger cone surface area will increase bass both in depth and db. but to a point the more the cone moves the more distortion it creates. so for tight detailed bass you want as little cone movement as possible.
In the physical science model of a given conventional woofer operating on an infinite baffle (half space, 2pi spherical) at flat frequency response (constant SPL with respect to frequency), there is an inverse square relationship between excursion and frequency, quadruple excursion required at halved frequency (one octave lower), 9,900.0% increase (100x) in excursion required at 90.0% reduction (1/10) in frequency (one decade lower). A restatement of the model holding excursion constant and allowing SPL to vary as a function of frequency, likewise a woofer operating on infinite baffle, at constant excursion it exhibits a 12_dB/octave high pass slope in the frequencies of interest.
This can be more generalized, where SPL as being largely a function of volume*velocity of the pistonic diaphragm (other aspects held constant) which is the product the RMS velocity and swept volume of the diaphragm exhibiting sinusoidal linear pistonic motion. In the preceding paragraph, that simplifies to relative change in excursion requirements.
Close proximity to a room boundary adds boundary reinforcement, +6_dB for each rigid boundary added, a room corner having 3 boundaries (however one boundary may already be include in voltage sensitivity specification if measured in half space and not corrected to free field).
The point source propagates -6_dB per doubling of distance, -20*log(n) where n=d2/d1, where d2 is the propagation distance between source and listener, and d1 is the reference distance. Most usually in voltage sensitivity ratings, 2.83_Vrms is used as the reference voltage and 1.0_m is used as the reference distance. So, if meters are used in the calculation, d1=1.0_m and d2/d1=d2. And for example, propagation over 2.0_m distance is
-20*log(2)= -6_dB
relative to SPL at 1.0_m distance.
At 4.0_m distance, -20*log(4)= -12_dB relative to SPL at 1.0_m.
There are also considerations of interference of Eigentones associated with the room's modal response (fundamentals and integer harmonics up through the Schroeder frequency), possible Helmholtz resonances among rooms (enclosed compliant air volumes) interconnected with doorways, hallways, air vents and ductwork, and there may be some low frequency cabin gain in a sufficiently tight, rigid, small space. For that cabin gain, don't underestimate the needed rigidity and tightness. A reinforced concrete wall backed by earth offers good rigidity, while a wall construction of gypsum wallboard and/or plywood over studs stuffed with insulation is just an acoustic low pass filter with some frequency dependent damping.
gold comment. thanks Jane for neatly explaining loads of info!
Also, some in the comments thread are comparing woofers by nominal sizes, and it should be mentioned that the nominal sizes of woofers can be misleading as a representation of the effective pistonic diaphragm diameter.
The Thiel-Small parameter "Sd" is the associated area (usually stated in square centimeters), and that can be converted to a diameter, which is usually much smaller than the nominal diameter. Consider that the OD of a conventional woofer surround is attached to the frame and does not move as the woofer excurses, while the ID is attached to the woofer cone and moves with the cone as the woofer excurses.
The venerable Peerless 12 inch XLS model 830500 (now out of regular production, but still available to OEMs by special order in large quantities) provides a good example. The outside diameter of the frame's conventional circular mounting flange is 308_mm (12.13_in), and the effective pistonic diaphragm diameter is 244_mm (9.61_in). Xmax is 12.5_mm peak, 25_mm peak-peak.
The Peerless 8 inch XLS model 850491 (likewise now out of regular production) has a truncated frame, the outside diameter of the circular portions of the mounting flange is 225_mm (8.86_in), and is 205_mm (8.07_in) across the flats of the truncated portion of the mounting flange. The effective pistonic diaphragm diameter is 173_mm (6.81_in), and Xmax is 10_mm peak, 20_mm peak-peak.
Relative to the 8 inch XLS, the 12 inch XLS has 25% longer stroke and 41% larger effective pistonic diaphragm diameter, and 99% larger radiating area.
Diameter comparison:
244/173= 1.41 which is a 41% increase.
Area comparison:
1.41^2=1.9881 which is a 99% increase.
(You can calculate the ratio of the areas long hand to find the same result as the square of the ratio of the diameters.)
@@janetyer7147 Have you written books on this stuff?!! You explained stuff so well... I always wondered about what you said... intuitively the cone indeed can move more to and fro in the center than at the edges joined to the surrounds which in turn is glued to a fixed rim... thanks once again for wonderful explanation.
Paul I know you aren't writing these in advance but I do wish you would try to be a little more careful in your word choice. It is not that an 8 inch woofer can't produce low frequency. I have heard plenty that can. It is usually that they can't produce enough to be audible. At this very moment I am listening on ear buds and just to check I pulled up a tone generator. These couple mm drivers are able to reproduce a 20hz tone. This only works because they are in the sealed cavity of my ear very close to my ear drums. Even then it was fairly quite so it would be covered up by louder frequencies when listening to music. The point is that drivers can go lower than people think. The problem is that smaller drivers usually don't go loud enough at low frequencies to matter.
Look up the KEF KC62. It’s a great read and the sub seems to defy known laws
The amount of air that must be moved increases exponentially as the frequencies go down. The amount of air that can be moved is a function of the surface of the drivers and their throw or movement back and forth. Then one has to calculate how low they can go. It's relatively simple and things like driver diameter don't really give that much information. Of course, neither do marketing releases...
I have used the likes of kef and rel before. But wasn't too keen. I went for a bk electronics 12 inch woofer paired with my monitor audios for my hifi. Built by a smalll company in the uk (essex) with the optional high pass lead. Sealed design and find 12s are the perfect balance in my room. Nice tight controlled bass, not interested in extention when it comes to music. Just tight a clean.
Tuning of the box and port design is a major factor too.
I also have an svs pb2000 pro for my home cinema. Not so good at music. Kind of sloppy if im honest, but for extention in action scenes jesus does it throw some air! It just doesn't give up!
Both 12s but totally different bass output.
Detailed controlled depth of a sealed and sheer brute force of the ported svs.
Totally agree with you on subwoofers for music! Its amazing how you can look at a huge subwoofer when bought and you think, look at this elephant in the room.
But once set up, close your eyes. It just disappears!
Had many comments from friends asking how my monitor audios go so low. They don't even know i have a subwoofers. They have to be told.
Great video. thank you. Can you make the same video but explaining Pro audio driver vs High excursion ?
Given that watts is now relatively cheap with class D amplification, a sub with an 8-inch driver can now reach lower frequencies and play louder in ways that were impossible just 15 years before.
Well, pushing an 8” driver to the bloody edge is going to sound worse than a 12” driver on cruise
I have always wondered why I could place my subwoofer with the ears...
Today I played with the phase and finds out it’s perfect at 157 degrees out of phase...
And it’s a big 15 inch sub...
So it’s also the phase there’s important...
A 12" sub-woofer will go deep. But it will not be a nimble as an 8" sub-woofer.
Assuming the same build quality, where both size woofers share a common frequency, the smaller driver will probably be faster in being activated, and this could result in tighter bass.
At volume, the larger woofer will move more air. But if you have a quality 8" or 10" sub-woofer, then you will have to go pretty loud to reach their straining point, to where the 12" woofer is still in its comfort zone.
In the end, there is really no way to know which size or which brand will sound best with your equipment in your room. Like most things audio, you have to hear it in your listening room. It is the only way to really know which is best for your listening environment.
Cheers!
All things being equal, that is; a larger cone size needs a comparably bigger enclosure volume to maintain bass depth over a smaller unit. A bigger driver alone doesn't go deeper per se, though it has more output for a given excursion. So, it's the relation between the driver size and enclosure volume mainly that determines the extension, right?
All other things (excursion, power handling and so on) being equal, yes.
How about using two smaller drivers back to back? Like the KEF KC62
The Kef KF92 is better...(£2,000)
‘This is the same reason why some bass players use 2 or more smaller drivers in their cabinets for the last several years. 2x10 or 4x10.
Interestingly, bass players often are not as concerned with making the 42 Hz fundamental (of a common 4-string bass) loud as they are concerned with midrange articulation. Hence the smaller drivers.
No replacement for displacement!
How was this not the first comment out there??? I know I’m not the only smartass who watches these!
"I know I’m not the only smartass who watches these" There's two of us but I was tangled up in the metric system
Yes, there is...
*Power adders.*
Greetings from Albuquerque New Mexico today.
Paul tell us where you are with your new speakers
Hopefully this long project duration means they are doing amazing stuff. I like to see an outstanding SPL, transient and low distortion response in the bass through servo feedback. They should also include active phase optimized cross-over filtering. If PS Audio can do great amps and speakers...they seriously need to combine the skills to the next level. What we don't need is just another 1980s engineering-level sort of old-school passive speaker that won't beat what we've seen before.
that's why i used sealed subs. Can do 100db at 8hz.
Edit:
Actually my limit is 116db at 17hz and 111db at 8hz.
That shouldnt be hard for me either i hit a 156.8 at 30hz
How big a woofer will the new PS Audio speakers have? Is that the new speaker’s woofer? Can’t wait for the release of the new speakers!
Put bluntly, and ever so more important with bass: there's no replacement for displacement, and headroom is your friend. It's why I have a pair of high efficiency, 15"-loaded tapped horn subs in my home set-up. 20 cf. volume per cab, and the 15" cone area is force multiplied via the tapped horn loading into the equivalent of roughly 2x 18" direct radiating woofers - per sub. Anyone believing such capacity isn't about bass quality fails to realize the prevailing logic behind minimizing cone movement; the less movement the lower the distortion and the cleaner the bass. Only one proviso: size, but for those who're able to accommodate it, it's a win-win.
It's a complex relationship with the loudspeakers...
You don't want to pair a 12-in sub with 4-in bookshelves. If you had a 6.5" speaker bass driver, you would want to pair with a 8-in or 10-in sub... has to be small enough for the loud speakers to reach down to the crossover frequencies. So "yes" sub size matters, in different situations.
Greetings from near Patagonia Argentina
Oh Paul......a thirty pound subwoofer. How cute! You should check out the MTX JackHammer for comparison.
This was good insight. Xmaxx and power to move the mass next 😍
Mariposa sheriffs had a tv show like cops i believe. Ps those are some really nice looking drivers that chris designed.
Morning Paul. Great info.
Mariposa is in the northen Sierras near Yosemite.
Bro. FS is derived from compliance, mass and mechanical Resistance simply put. 12" drivers can be built to have a higher fs despite moving mass
A 12 is 144 and two 8’s are 128, so the single 12 is larger. We skip the pi and halving the diameter when comparing round areas in the water distribution business for speed of comparison.
A bit more accurate is the simple mental arithmetic. An 8 area is 4X4X3 =48. A 12 area is 6X6X3=108.
@@geoff37s38 comes out the same with less work. The 3 is redundant and doesn't change the outcome, so skip it and save the time.
@@The340king your method is for a square, not a circle so it does not work out the same.
@@geoff37s38 yes it does. The only unique factor in the equation for the area of a circle is? The diameter/radius. All the rest is constants. Therefore, solving for the difference in diameter squared gives you a quick method for comparing cross sectional area of a circle.
Cool drivers that they use.
So medium size is best for frequency response?
Are horizontal mounted better than vertical mounted?
cone area = max output. every time the cone area doubles you get 6DB more output. this assumes the cone excursion is the same. lets say you have two 12" woofers, one has a max excursion of .26 inches and the other has a max excursion of .13 inches. the woofer with .26 inches excursion will have 6DB greater max bass output than the .13 inch excursion woofer. HOWEVER, the .13 inch excursion woofer will likely have greater effiency . put simply.....get the biggest most cone area speakers you can afford IF you like very loud music.
Now, Paul leaves me curious for subwoofer size and standing waves😝
Good quesiton and a good answer!
As always, good information, nicely presented. But, in point of fact, a single 12" woofer has about 13 per cent more area than a pair of 8" woofers.
No, you are not anywhere near correct in your numbers.
The nominal size of a woofer can be misleading as a representation of the effective pistonic diaphragm diameter. The Thiel-Small parameter "Sd" is the associated area (usually stated in square centimeters), and that can be converted to a diameter, which is usually much smaller than the nominal diameter. Consider that the OD of a conventional woofer surround is attached to the frame and does not move as the woofer excurses, while the ID is attached to the woofer cone and moves with the cone as the woofer excurses.
The venerable Peerless 12 inch XLS model 830500 (now out of regular production, but still available to OEMs by special order in large quantities) provides good example. The outside diameter of the frame's conventional circular mounting flange is 308_mm (12.13_in), and the effective pistonic diaphragm diameter is 244_mm (9.61_in). Xmax is 12.5_mm peak, 25_mm peak-peak.
The Peerless 8 inch XLS model 850491 (likewise now out of regular production) has a truncated frame, the outside diameter of the circular portions of the mounting flange is 225_mm (8.86_in), and is 205_mm (8.07_in) across the flats of the truncated portion of the mounting flange. The effective pistonic diaphragm diameter is 173_mm (6.81_in), and Xmax is 10_mm peak, 20_mm peak-peak.
Relative to the 8 inch XLS, the 12 inch XLS has 25% longer stroke and 41% larger effective pistonic diaphragm diameter, and 99% larger radiating area, which is very nearly double, and is very much more than the 13% increase that you stated.
Diameter:
244/173= 1.41 which is 41% increase.
Area:
1.41^2=1.9881 which is 99% increase
(You can calculate the ratio of the areas long hand to find the same result as the square of the ratio of the diameters.)
Take no notice of those polite or diplomatic people who tell you size doesn’t matter. It emphatically does!
I must correct paul on this:- a 12 inch sub has a surface area of 113 square inches. A 8 inch sub has a surface area of approximately 50 square inches. So, 2 8 inch subs have a total surface area of roughly 100 square inches and therefore their combined surface area is actually less than that of a 12 inch sub!
Maraposa is near Yosemite if I remember my California geography? Beautiful area of California.
Hi Paul if you think size matters in a sub check out the low frequencies of the new KEF KC 62 sub you’ll be surprised for it’s size.thanks Tony.
Room has huge impact on subwoofer ULF! The reinforcement from a room is huge. A subwoofer outdoors in an open will have much less SPL power as there is no reinforcement from walls or an enclosed space.
Time to Que up the Back to the future opening scene........
Random things on the table can be used as a demo of a speaker cone :-)
Paul is great at improvising. Small rooms can get away with smaller drivers. My Etymotic ER2XR earbuds with a fraction of an inch of diameter can do excellent deep sub bass into the rooms called "my ear canals".
That's a doggy question 🐶🐶🐶🐶 - Wooof Woof Woof !!!
Great talks , thanks dear
It's about excursion bigger drive has less excursion for a given amount of air what is less distortion in the driver. as you hear with car subwoofers there is tons of distortion from the driver. and you have to take into account the size of the box for low frequency has to be bigger that's why isobaric loading is the best for subwoofer because you half the size of the given volume better control low frequency roll-off
Hi Paul, mariposa means butterfly in Spanish
Paul your cable management is embarrassing but I still give ya thumbs up )))
What’s the compromise as you go larger?
Sounds like it how I pick my girls all about the cone size. 👍✌️👌💯
😂larger the worse she moan.
Woofer size does not determine how low in frequency a woofer will play. If that were true then it would be impossible for headphones to play low bass. Any size cone can play any frequency. The difference is the SPL that can be produced. The bigger the cone and the greater the excursion, the louder it can play at any given frequency. So to play low bass at volumes that are useful for music and movies, big cones have a huge advantage.
Incorrect. Two 8in drivers do not have more cone area than one 12in driver, the 12 has approx 115 sq in compared to approx 100 sq in for two 8 drivers.
This could have been explained far more clearly. Tapping the driver cone with a finger will demonstrate the 12 cone has a lower natural resonant frequency compared to an 8. This is a very important factor and determines how low the driver will go without unacceptable distortion. In general, a 12 will go lower but at the expense of speed and transients due to higher cone mass.
It is not “about total mass” as Paul incorrectly states, it is about piston size/throw and the ability to pressurise the room.
That and resonance frequency.
Room size / volume is important for lower frequencies because of the length of the sound wave needs room to hit in...there is also room resonance/acoustics that play their part too.
So many other factors play into a sub as well, more importantly what you want the sub for is even more critical; music or movies?
Larger subs are usually slower (less accurate) but deeper, also box size plays into it as well and this usually results in more SPL which are better suited for movies.
Technically Paul is correct that two 8" subs can go lower than a single 12" but I have never seen this in a real world application...so far; mainly because of driver design plus box size.
To get one sub that can do both music and movies you will pay through the nose for sadly.
www.jlaudio.com/collections/home-audio-fathom-v2/products/f113v2-gloss-home-audio-fathom-v2-powered-subwoofers-96142
You can play a tiny 1" speaker at 25hz but it will never be able to move enough air mass per second for you to hear it. Play the same 1" speaker at 2500hz and you are now moving 1000 times more air per second.
Pauls speaker size comparisons have been off lately
Speaking of PS Audio speakers... when will the Sprout speakers be arriving?
Don't hold your breath...
@@stonefree1911 Well I know they were working on them. Paul even showed us some prototypes in past videos. I just want to know when they're coming out, even if it won't be in the near future.
When items in the room shake,rattle and roll you don't hear it. It is then just right.
Only comment that 2 8” woofer surface is lower than a 12” one, perhaps you get more dynamics, but the total surface is lower.
My gastroenterologist said the same thing about my colon. My wife is upset either way.
We miss Chris and your lunchtime videos ...
The speaker enclosure has almost everything to do with how low in frequency you ca go and still hear sound. try to compare the bass reproduction in a 10L enclosure and a 80-100L enclosure....
IMHO I would rather have more smaller woofers then one big one. They can move faster and give more snappy bass instead of the booooooom.
I've run into the opposite. Have 6.5 in bookshelves that produces more bass, tighter base, than towers with three 5-in drivers. I'll take one legit driver over cheap multiples any day.
That is what the girl said to the soldier.
Reproducing bass frequencies is a very complicated subject and unfortunately there are so many variables to consider that Paul could never possibly cover them all. This audiophile disease is going to kill me
Seek help.😊
Can anyone tell me the difference between a car subwoofer driver or a subwoofer driver used for home theater? Can I use a car subwoofer driver in a home theater?
How does (2) 8" woofers produce lower freq's than (1) 12" ?
How does the posi trac on a '72 Plymouth work? Nobody knows, it just does!
2 8" drivers don't produce lower frequencies, and the single 12" driver doesn't produce lower frequencies either. Lower frequency simply put means the driver moves slower over a given time period. What Paul was talking about and again his cocktail napkin math is way off is the ability to "couple" with the air or put another way to get air moving at the same frequency aka speed as the driver. Air is a group of molecules of a certain density in space, the air molecules having a physical mass and size. One of the physical laws of the universe simply state that things at rest tend to stay at rest. Air has a resistance to changing it's at rest state to being moved. A woofer's surface traps some air and shoves it forward and back causing a wave in the space it sits in. This wave moves in the room in a more spherical shape the lower the frequency gets and more like a narrowing conical shape the higher the frequency gets. The narrowing effect is due to the air requiring more energy to move faster, aka at a higher frequency, so any angle off axis to the driver's forward and back movement gets absorbed more the higher the frequency goes. And to drive a speaker surface at higher frequency using the same energy levels requires the size of the speaker to get smaller because that air resistance is there. That's why tweeters are smaller than midranges and woofers are bigger. How they move the air most efficiently depends on the frequency they are trying to move the air.
A small tweeter can reproduce frequencies down to 20 Hz and lower, it just requires more surface area to get it moving with any volume level. Conversely a woofer can reproduce 20Khz signals, but would require more wattage to drive at that frequency and need to be made to a more rigid and stronger level to survive for long because of that air resistance being worse the higher the frequency.
So to sum up, better coupling to the air at lower frequencies means you can drive the air mass at higher volume levels at those harder to drive lower frequencies. Being able to reproduce higher volume levels mean you get to actually hear those frequencies at the listening level of the rest of the frequencies being reproduced. So the more air you can couple to, the more you can balance the lower frequencies' volume to the rest of the higher frequency material being reproduced.
There are other issues other than just size, you need to support that larger moving mass against being deflected off axis by the air's resistance to moving. The more you try to move air, the more you need to counteract deflection from air resistance. AKA larger stiffer spider, larger voice coil and larger magnet, stiffer cone, more accurately sized surround and mated to the cone more accurately as well, more perfectly centered cone and more equidistant from the coil it needs to be. It's cheaper and easier to a speaker manufacturer who also manufactures their own drivers to use smaller drivers in groupings to get more air moving at low frequencies. Also smaller drivers allow narrower cabinets which means wider acceptance with general market trends for "attractive" designs.
@@robertspringer9477
The same as '72 Dodge.
Mariposa Folk Festival?
Music for butterflies.
So what about my small in ear headphones? They can shore make some low noise😛 haha just kidding I understand the idea👍😃
You look like an older Bob Odenkirk
Mariposa, CA Norcal Sierra foothills.
Size and excursion = spl
Size DOES NOT determine fs or Qts.
Psssssst...
Loudspeakers and subs really pressurized a room and your ears. That is why you should clear your ears sometimes if you hear a drop in lower and mid range sounds Eg pinch nostrils, close mouth, breath out gently. Like after a swim.
press 7 repeatedly
I am SOFA KING curious as to who PS Audio chose to supply their drive units! Eminence perhaps? Theyre american. Or did they go for some fancy European supplier. Cant imagine they went Asian, not that it all really matters, but it sorta kinda does for the real hair splitters out there! Is that a PASSIVE RADIATOR I spy with my little eye back there? THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME, RELEASE A DAMN SET OF SPEAKERS ALREADY PAUL!
Maybe it’s Italian?
@@PooNinja Are you thinking Faital? I know ive seen that magnet design somewhere come to think of it.
Air movement is not sound. Sound is vibration.
So many things not entirely accurate with those 2 simple statements. All air movement results in sound, vibration is movement, and sound is caused by the ear drum being vibrated/excited usually by air movement but you could be underwater or drowning in an oil drum for that matter and hear things.
@oh ok explain how frequency transmission is possible through space. There’s no air.
Please someone educate this man before he starts telling nonsense. How low driver can go depends of many factors, two most important are box design and driver design. Even very small drivers can go low but not with the same spl. If you want to go an octave lower wits the same spl you will need 4x more cone area so lets say 4 drivers instead of one. One driver will go also low but with less spl than 4 drivers obviously
hmmmm, whats different with your hair?
Only his hairdresser knows..............................
It’s not 30 pounds 🥴
He trips up over his own words quite often. It's "mass". Pertaining to what? Moving mass of driver? Cone? No, it isn't. It's displacement of air volume, which can affect air mass movement. Cone surface area and travel (excursion) have no direct relation to cone mass. True, larger cones tend to require more massive material, but there is no direct relation, as larger, more efficient drivers generally use materials of lower density and higher quality than smaller, cheaper, less efficient woofer drivers.
I do get a kick out of these video clips, though. One intriguing aspect of following these videos is finding the errors.
My first subwoofer was so loud, when i turned the volume all the way down, it still shook the couch. Great for music, way overkill for movies
Qsc audio
How does this technical dude not know what liner XMax is or a driver's Fs,or the true cone area that includes half the surround .... also why did he not mention coil size weight And it's penalty on efficiency,with the use of more watts to be louder... Just a all around horrible explanation of crucial differences in woofer's sizes and the correlation of effect... Somebody please start this man a GoFundMe (he needs more schooling). sorry not at all feeling bad...