Debunking the gear-crashing monster - LEGO 42113 V-22 Osprey fundamentally flawed?
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2024
- The LEGO Technic 42113 Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey set was cancelled because of its military relations, but as it was discovered soon it has another dark secret. It seems to destroy quickly some of its internal gears even when operated normally. How and why does it happen? Can it be fixed? Check out all the details in this video!
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Click here for the disassembly guide and the photos about the fixed setup - racingbrick.com/2020/10/lego-technic-v-22-osprey-design-flaw-details-possible-fixes/
@GD_Jacobzamboni I checked your solution but it makes a linear connection between the 2 gears on the same level (and reverses the rotation meanwhile). The point of the three 8 tooth gears is to connect the lower and the upper sections, to transmit power between them.
Cheap plastic. This year has been bad for Lego quality IMO
How much money was the 200 ⚙️
10 EUR
It's not really abou quality change, the 8 tooth gears can take only this amount of force. If you put them in a not completely secured position then the slight changes in the forces will make a tiny dent at some point and after that the gear gets ruined quickly.
"I need enough gears for tests"
*Proceeds to order 200 of the tested gear*
How many tests did you do exactly?
A lot.. I used at least 50 gears
@@RacingBrick Damn bro
@@RacingBrick That's dedication :)
@@noscil9403 we all technic fans ofc
Exhaustive research, impressive.
Thanks! It took some time (and a few gears) :)
@@RacingBrick well done.
Cancelling the V-22 due to it's "militaristic" origins is complete and utter bull, since Lego has released UCS sets for the Sopwith Camel and Fokker Dr.1, both of which are fighter aircraft from WW1. Not to mention the various Chinook inspired helicopters released for multiple Lego City sub-themes.
Exactly. And don't forget about Indiana Jones theme with Nazis in it. Lego just used excuse that sounded better than admiting to pretty huge design flaw.
The chinook is also in civilian use. That why they don’t have a probleem with building a chinook
It's not actually because of the design, it's due to the fact this is a licensed set with Boeing and Bell, who are military contractors, thus buying this set is literally directly funneling money to a war effort
A problem I could see the technic engineers missing is the thermal expansion of the rotor clutches after an extended period of time that increases the resistance of the clutch.
For what it's worth, mine really broke down once I tried swooshing it around while the rotors were spinning (diving, tilting etc.), which I think is safe to assume most kids would have done. Great video, keep it up!
I always admired Lego's stance, until they discovered that there is too much money in fantasy weapons, and that these are OK.
I respect the choice either way, but to nix the osprey but market any number of star wars vessels seems inconsistent.
Let just forget about the nazi flying wing from the Indiana Jones series cus $$
@@TheRandompaint TBH, that one still counts as a fictional aircraft, that particular plane never existed, so it's the sam as a Star Wars ship.
@@eliaspeter7689 the Horten Ho 229? Because that plane did exist
@@tarbogamer5867 The Ho-229 was a prototype that flew 1 or 2 times... you're stretching it buddy😁
@@tarbogamer5867 The Ho229 was a jet powered flying wing design with no conventional rudder surfaces - the one in the movie was not based on a real aircraft, was piston/propellor driven, had rudders, and looked completely different to the Horten. The only 'similarity' was that it was a flying wing design.
Having said that, the core of the debate (military/weaponry and Lego) is probably still valid, as most people wouldn't be able to tell it wasn't a real WW2 German aircraft - it's a ridiculous excuse either from Lego, or people who complained to Lego about it (I'm assuming somebody complained). It's a very fine line. Basically any aircraft and especially helicopter has a potential military application, armed or not. The V22 often flies unarmed. Lego has made an *obvious* CH47 Chinook replica (which flies armed), something very close to a Merlin, something very close to a CH53.....something very close to an F35 *cough* excuse me, 'Air Race Jet' (lol, sure)...the list goes on. I guess they didn't call them by their names, but still. Frankly, even if they want to be pedantic about 'no weaponry', then the simple fact that the type has an unarmed variant is good enough. Lego states that 'they aim to avoid realistic weapons and military equipment' - which basically means taking something without weapons, and slapping a non-military paintscheme on it, and calling it a 'rescue' aircraft (as they've done with many helicopters already) - why the Osprey got singled out remains a mystery to me, unless they wanted an easy out for a flawed design of course....
Horribly engineered disaster that wrecks itself and is a huge waste of money?!
Just like the real V-22!!
Really?
HAVE YOU BEEN OR SEEN A REAL V22 IN PERSON, HAVE YOU BEEN IN A V-22?! NO, SO SHUT UP.
@@brickmastersk8658 salty much?
The v22 is a nightmare to work on
@@brickmastersk8658 lmao, never seen someone react so strongly towards a V-22
@@brickmastersk8658 Any amount of research will show you that, yes they do malfunction quite a lot. Why do you think the military rarely uses them?
I also have the same experience with the 8z gears. None of them in my model is damaged in any sort, even after some weeks of playing w the functions.
It would make sense that a lego version of a fundamentally flawed aircraft would also be fundamentally flawed. And it's still a problem with the gear box!
Lmfao
Tiltrotors, even though flawed, are probably my favorite type of vehicle and I love every single kind (cars, ships, trains, you name it, they're all awesome) so that says quite a lot. Not only are they cool but they also show extreme levels of ingenuity and show what us as a species is capable of
@@midgetman4206 Yeah, when will we get a gunship variant tho?
Man I really wanted this set because I like the osprey.
Aliexpresssss....
There is another way to weaken the clutch force for the propellers - the “Black Technic, Axle Pin 3L with Friction Ridges Lengthwise and 2L Axle”, 18651. This piece has less friction at the pin end than the blue friction pins. I’ll post a link with an example of how this could be used - not sure if it has enough friction to allow the propellers to turn, though.
Softer clutch here: imgur.com/a/jzDK2Op
@@stevenpatton8628 interesting, I'll test it for sure
I'm amazed those clutches to the two rotors are so stiff!
I wonder if the clutches eventually bind due to heat from friction.
@@SuperAlgae interesting idea
@@SuperAlgae that sounds likely. Any normal wear that they would exhibit would just wear down the friction nubs and make them *less* frictiony.
0:29 idk if I’m being dumb here and it’s intentional but does anyone think this looks like a dragon
No that’s just how it’s cast
Dinosaur*
@@philswift9705 thats alot of damage
Yes it looks
I cant un see it now lol
I've said this before you are the great technic detective!!!
I agree!
Detechnive!
You can also fix it with 4 of this small things to put them on the axis and 2 rubber bands, so you have a slip clutch and no components get damaged if the rotors stops...and the rotors dont start at full speed they are running faster and faster with correct rubber bands, little bonus effect :D
this is why i try very hard to not include 8 tooth to 8 tooth connections in my MOC's (also because i dont have many not broken ones)
hearing those gears reminded me of the old Cahdok & Gahdok Bionicle set that had a function that grinded the gears in it very loudly...
Ahaha same
Wow, great video! I have some ideas too:
1. Instead of three 8z gears, maybe two 16 tooth gears
2. It might be possible to replace/add a "old school" 24 tooth spur clutch gear, that might "slip" more easily
These need a redesign of the gearbox, currently there's no space for them
@@RacingBrick Also only using 2 gears the rotors would spin in the wrong direction.
@@SuperCougar1963 yes but its better than gear crushing
R.I.P to all of those poor gears that were destroyed.
Kedves Balazs! Wasn't expecting to hear that when I opened this video! Your english is really good!
Igazán köszönöm :)
3:54 i builded a clutch on my GBC then goes to an acatator
The blades friction protection is for one on both sides therefore the friction is the combination of both. Then there's some pre-gear reduction before that for more speed (making the friction clutch even stronger) what I propose is that the motor just has its own clutch before it even gets to any of the gearboxes. Therefore the entire system will be torque limited and it will protect all of the gears. But I don't know if that's possible with the assembly.
I have never liked putting 8 tooth gears in that configuration, they dont spin smoothly, as if they're too tight or binding. I think this is the reason for the failure
Yeah when I put three together they are not as smooth as putting a bigger one next to it
@@hunter7476 it seems fine until the shafts are supported properly on both sides, then it's too tight. It would interesting to see if the drivetrain would be more reliable with less support, to allow some extra clearance on the gears
@@MonticelloSkateTeam yeah true it depends on what I’m using it for or the application and the way it’s mounted too
The rotor clutches should have decreased resistance if the axles rotate slower. Maybe if some gear ratios are switched it's possible to reduce the resistance of those friction clutches without reducing their friction while at the same time keep the rotors spinning at unchanged speed...🤔
As a mechanical engineer, I find the only REAL issue with technic is that you cant easily greasy the gears.high torque with plastic is always tricky tue to how much every part flexes when it the parts start to grip
Can you help me. I am looking for all the parts of the motorized system for the osprey. I got an osprey set but, it didn't come with the motorized system
I honestly think the gear issue was the main reason they canceled the set. The whole military thing was just extra encouragement to cancel the set.
Even with gear problem Lego still can release updated version,just like they does in 8043 Motorized Excavator or Land Rover Defender
Jesus, the Osprey is so cursed even the LEGO version has problems.
At least it's just the tiny gears. I'd imagine they're pretty cheap to buy in bulk. Also I believe there are reinforced variants
But in order to fail... it has to get stuck... and honestly, why wold you stop the rotors AND keep it running?
Since the rotors touch the ground when they are tilted forward it will happen for sure. Obviously you don't want to let it run for minutes, but the stress adds up with time. And since this is a toy for kids, safety systems inside should be there to protect the person but also the structure.
I thought that they were 12 tooth beveled gears at 0:38 😂
I would have imagened you'd burn out the friction pins before you proke the gears.
also the new plastick Lego is using isn't exactly as strong as the old plastick was when new and the new gear design for the eight tooth is oviusly not that strong eather. At this point the best thing to do might simply be to redesign the eight tooth AGAIN instead.
I mean - you yourself have had it that the gears were destroyed in just a couple of seconds. The parts have tolerances and if those just happen to be on the bad side for this model it can break just from testing out the functions of the model. That is one serious flaw.
Great video. Could you please do a follow up discussing the newer solutions that appeared online.
ha a 3 8-as fogaskereket kicserélitek 2 16-os fogaskerékre, akkor nagyobb az erő átvitele, és valószínűleg kisebb sérülés lesz. lehet nem fér be, de ha hátrébb hozzuk akkor már elférhet.
if you replace the 3 8 gear with a 2 16 gear, the power transmission will be higher and there will probably be less damage. it may not fit, but if we bring it back it may already fit.
A nagy kérdés hogy hova viszed hátra :)
@@RacingBrick Egy modelt készítek róla, már elkezdtem. Ide nem tudom csatolni a képet róla. van olyan email címed, ahova majd küldhetem a javítást?
@@kasapeter5661 itt RUclips-on az about fül alatt találod az e-mail címet
@@RacingBrick megtaláltam
@@RacingBrick tegnap este elküldtem emailban a javítást
Was this the actually reason Lego had to pull this set off shelves? Not the military war vehicle reason people were saying?
Don't think a set would be fully cancelled because of a construction problem, it happened before and it was corrected
@@RacingBrick That's a shame, I do hope Lego realizes that not all military vehicles are used for war. Like the Osprey is primarily used for rescues and transport. It's also a pretty nice build that I hope the designers are fully appreciated for. When I made the Mega Bloks Halo Falcon set, the first thing I thought was how I could motorize it, even if I had no motorized parts. I could buy all the parts individually but that could end up more expensive than the retail price.
@@MrMiraculon Not to mention Lego has no problems making UCS sets for the Sopwith Camel and Fokker Dr.1, both fighter planes from one of the bloodiest wars in history.
@@matthewseligman5470 they're creator sets, not UCS
I think LEGO should start to make metal gears
Then the metal gears would destroy the plastic axles and so on. Wherever metal meets plastic, metal wins.
@@RacingBrick or LEGO could redesign their gears
@@RacingBrick In this case it doesn't seem like the axles are too weak? I'd expect both the axles and (plastic) gears to get damaged in that case
I just bought one of these from ebay, and just went ahead and ordered parts for the various mods to reduce damage. I saw another version of the gearbox fix that uses some L shapes and so on too, I wonder if it braces the assembly better? I just put the list of parts down and bought everything I could possibly need during the build.
Ah, it hurts to hear the clicking\jamming noise from the motors and gears. At least it's for an expariment.
Replace the gears with belts in that section, stress will just slip the belt.
Could you see if third party companies that make this set such as lepin have the same problem and if replacing all 6 of the offending gears with metal versions solve the problems?
You could try replacing those with a chain drive
Good idea but it does not fit in the same place
Great review!!
Who would try to spin stopped propellers for 3 whole minutes? It just doesn't make any sense. If the blades are stuck then you should upper the blades or torn off the engine, not trying to force the whole thing
To try to simulate the effect of a longer period where a kid playing with the set would accidentally or willingly stop the blades for a few seconds, but a lot of times. All the other reports of the "faulty construction" were based on scenarios where the system was blocked and forced for a certain time.
How are the friction pins not slipping enough to let the system move freely independently of the rotors? Also maybe there's a way to add more slip points in series to the rotors.
If you replace the friction pins then thr system slips too much and the rotors won't rotate
So, what I am seeing is, the solution to the breaking gears is not do block the rotation. Basically, if you don't do stuff that it isn't designed for, it won't break.
Practically yes, but you need to remember that it is a toy, played by kids, and there will be scenarios for sure when it gets blocked. Especially because it will block if you try to run it tilted forward. This means the wear will add up and sooner or later the gears will get damaged.
@@RacingBrick since the set was canceled, I highly doubt any were purchased by parents for their kids, I bet every single set was bought by adult Lego fans
@@pokemaster123ism I'm totally sure that it was not designed with the future cancellation in mind.
Add silicon grease to clutch parts? Or should there be a clutch between driving motor and parts taking damage?
There is a brick-built clutch but even that is too much. The transmission between the two layers needs reinforcement with more gears and stiffer support.
Watching and hearing those gears crunch hurt me on the inside
I think 8-tooth gears are weak. Especially when they are used together.
I'm not much of a builder but it would solve most problems if somewhere sold metal replacements for the gears of technic sets to avoid this problem all together
Metal gears would then destroy plastic axles, it does not solve the issue only puts it elsewhere.
@@RacingBrick very valid point, I can see even with the metal axles it destroys the bricks, there's a video of a metal axle stress test and the metal just destroys everything if its under any stress
I don't have this set but after looking at your review and this video I have a thought. In combination with your solution in this video what if you changed the final drive gears to the rotors (Tan 12 tooth Beveled Gear and the Black 12 tooth Beveled Gear) in the Black Pin Connector Toggle Joint with a Tan 12 tooth Beveled Gear and the Tan 20 tooth Beveled Gear. I know this would make the rotors spin slower but would increase the torque prior to the simple clutch. As I don't have this set I'm not sure if the 20 tooth gear would have enough clearance between other gears in the assembly.
Honestly it seems that the main flaw of this design was not putting a clutch gear before the gearbox. Honestly shocked this didn’t come up in testing, as it would likely solve the problem.
Woulda been nice to get one.....
so this is why the custom made metal 8 tooth gears are always sold out
What if you replace those gears with metal ones??? I watched a video where a guy used metal lego axle and gears to make a crane
Not only was this set banned, it had stuff like this. Truly cursed
Salute to this man who sacrificed his gears for the video! 🤣
Would love to know the part numbers for the temp fix solution.
Is it still worth building despite the gearbox problems?
The 1x5 0.5 liftarm is 11478, the rest is also part of the build (3L axle, gears, bush), you can check the numbers on rebrickable - rebrickable.com/sets/42113-1/bell-boeing-v-22-osprey/#parts
Thanks, new to this but have the set and wanting to have it usable
@@FourPlay26 I mean you should be good if you don't block the rotor blades.
Thanks
How did you get one of these
Weren’t they recalled at the last second
i have the same problem and i dont get is how?
i just love the comparisons
Not sure why I'm watching this - I mean it's not as if I'm ever going to own this set is it?
Pretty sure that anyone else that owns this set will keep the box sealed for re$ale.
You can still build it from parts
Could we fix it with our RC Motors and controller system to make it really fly like RC plane …?!
No
1 I thought It wasn't produced 2how do you fix it
Afaik there were sets produced and even delivered to shops because the release date was approaching and directly before relase Lego asked them to send them back.
doubt itl be cancelled. theyl likely just make a new iteration and possibly recall the flawed ones.
It is already cancelled
Another Great Video. Thanks!
Van programozható egységed Legohoz, amúgy nagyon szép az angolod :D
What if you added more friction pin clutches?
more clutch means more resistance, higher stress on the motor
You working with lego or cold starting a diesel truck?
?
Yeah, that sounded more like an engine on a winter morning than a lego gearbox
*shudders
I wish I had this set it is so cool
Great video! Say... What is this software @8:22? :)
LDCad
i made a conveyer with a same clutch at 3:54
How does he have this if it was cancelled
Because a limited stock reached the retailers before it was cancelled. Unfortunately this means that nowadays you can only buy it on the secondary market (e.g. eBay) for a much higher price.
És mi lenne, ha a szárny felőli szürke 28as fogaskerékről lenne, egy ugyan ilyennel, levezetve a hajtás, a középső tengelyre? Oda a 3as hosszabbító helyére, még be is lehetn tenni egy kettest, és mindössze annyi lenne a különbség, hogy egyes funkciók iránya invertálódna, amit matricázással meg lehetne oldani, nem? Én nem látom egészben a szettet, magam előtt, szóval lehet, hogy valamit nem vettem észre ezzel kapcsolatban, de remélem ettől függetlenül segítségedre lehettem.
He's crunching the gears, not the numbers
Én eddig nem is tudtam hogy magyar vagy! Pedig már pár éve nézem a videóidat
Hát látod, mik ki nem derülnek ennyi idő után :)
quality control in Lego... :)
Wow I didn't even knew you are hungarian! Great
tl;dr dont jam the rotors .... clearly you never had deal with RC servos or RC helis gears are expendable. best thing to would be build in a fuse gear that thats cheap and easy to get better your cheap gear get stripped then burn out the motor.
in areas where i expect a servo to take load i use plastic gears because its better they strip out then burn out the servo motor and gear sets are like 2 bucks and new server is 40 bucks. same thing in tail rotor drive there are lots of plastic gears that will strip out if the rotor hits something or jams this again protects the main drive motor. likely the small gears are being used a fuse gear here there cheap and easy to get hold of.
You clearly missed the point that this is a kids toy and it might be jammed unintentionally, but on other LEGO builds in general there are safety systems preventing the not only motor damage but the damage of other parts as well.
Excellent video. Bought this model from Aliexpress. Fake Lego, but actually very good quality and exact replica of the Lego version, INCLUDING this exact gear box defect.
Why was it canceled
Cuz Lego didnt have policy to produce modern military vechile
Perhaps put grease on the gears to fix it?
good video like always
wear and tear both rhyme with pear
They also rhyme with bare and mare.
I think most people break the 8 tooths by using 2 functions at once
That does not have a significant effect, blocking the rotors matters
8 tooth gears looks so fragile anyways... they should have used soemthing else than theese
Can you try my two mods in the thread as well?
I will test other options going forward, will have a look at your solutions as well
one question tho, why did they stop making that set so early
maybe it was for the better this didn't get released
Just got one of the unlabeled kits, without the simple hub or motor. Is there any way to get a simple hub to teh US? Thanks. Did you ever put a 88012 in the opsrey?
Really cool video
Make the gears out of metal
And then they can destroy the axles...
Just use other gears?
if 8t gears mesh with 8t gears, you need 16t, I don't think there are more comparisons if 2 years that are 16t in total
Watch the video, no other gears fit in that 1 stud wide space. A complete redesign is needed if you want to use other gears.
@@ShunTechnicBricks dude can you read I said 2 gears that have 16t in total
Just like the real Osprey!
Ouch my ears are not having fun
A Kockaáruháztól vagy a Kockashoptól is rendelhetted volna a fogaskerekeket
Igen de bricklinken olcsóbb
@@_LLevi_ de hosszabb a kiszállítás
Bricklinken is rengeteg magyar eladó van, ezt is az egyikőjüktől rendeltem és 2 nap alatt itt volt a csomag.
@@RacingBrick És nincs vám?
@@akoshorvath-risko5838 Magyarországról magyar eladó küld neked egy csomagot, hol lenne vám?
Power up technicly
this physcally hurts to watch
8:24 это что? lego digital designer?
LDCad
Sound like a heli