IGDA Toronto 2013 Keynote: Neil Druckmann, Creative Director & Writer, Naughty Dog
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- Write with the Flow -- The Last of Us Story Post-mortem
The IGDA Toronto Chapter Committee is extremely pleased to kick-off the 2013/2014 season with a very special event!
In writing The Last of Us Naughty Dog set out to raise the bar of character-driven videogame narratives. Neil Druckmann, Creative Director and Writer of The Last of Us, will deconstruct several iterations of the story, explaining why the narrative needed to constantly evolve over the course of production.
Neil Druckmann is the Creative Director and Writer of The Last of Us. He previously worked as Designer and Co-writer on Uncharted: Drake's Fortune and Uncharted 2: Among Thieves. Neil is also the writer and creator of the graphic novel, A Second Chance at Sarah.
Thanks to Andy Borkowski of AM 640 for recording the event for us!
"the last of us" as told by my right earphone
mono-chads win again
I would give anything to redo my first experience of playing this game.
why?
because it was amazing. Maybe some people didnt enjoy it as much as me. But my 1st time through, it was awesome. Almost sucks beating good games like these.
PBPproductuons1 true.
I remember being really excited and stopping because I just didn't want it to end. I didn't want to finish the story. On the other hand I wanted to keep going and see more of the world of the Last of Us.
Same here
My respect for NaughtyDog has only heightened now, after watching this video.
6 years later oof
It took them one year to drop like a rock.
How about now
When Neil mentioned his "Ah HA!" moment after becoming a dad, it reminded me of Masashi Kishimoto the creator of Naruto. Kishimoto had never been really big on romantic stuff since he had never really been in a relationship before, he spent just about all his time with his brother. It wasn't until he finally got married to his wife and had a kid that he was able to develop some of the most heart warming stuff i've ever seen such as when Naruto finally meets his parent and how perfect it all flows together.
I don't know, I just like this comparison.
RIP left earbud users
thank god i thought mine were broken
😂
Id never had thought a video game would be one of the most memorable experiences in my life, the way Naughty Dog constructed it to take me through an emotional ride of tears and happiness. Thank you to everyone one who contributed to it, the directors, designers, actors, writers, fans, and everyone reading. You've all made this a beautiful masterpiece, and I am breath-taken by how this was all pulled off.
HOLY CRAP Tess was supposed to be a bad guy? Glad that didn't happen, her character was AWESOME.
The thing about it is all interpretation - you can judge Ellie's final nod in the end as an acceptance that she will grow from that, or you can judge it as a rejection of the lie on face value. I think the point to note is that even Neil calls it an interpretation of the ending - not the set in stone "correct path." Most importantly, though, it depends on what you saw in the game, not what the director intended or what you were told to interpret.
You can see the parallel between Tess’ storyline (from the original pitch) and Abby’s in TLOU2.
Neil expanded upon the idea of a person seeking revenge against Joel, and made it a whole new game. And doubled the empathy by living/playing this character.
The seeds for TLOU2, were always present in his mind.
The interesting moment is that the different perspectives thing was a gestating idea of Druckmann since the beginning of time. It was touched in TLOU1 but in TLOU2 it's gonna be pushed even further.
Man i wanna ask him a million questions, this man is a genius.
Such honesty from him about Jak and Dexter. There aren't alot of developers out there who take such consideration in their projects.
My respect for this guy has only increased after this.
i'm just 10 min into the video and already love it. i'm an artist and the effect of ideas growing for along time and how good they become, because they get so much more dense and complex / original, is well known to me. they kinda grow and get a almost natural feel in opposite to all the generic stuff we get normally. and the better these ideas get, the more they feel like: i'm gonna explode if i don't realize them. and that's art.
Nah, it's a interesting argument Neil makes for the ending, but I can easily see Ellie choosing not doing that. The downside with his attempt to make a strong female character is his insistence that she has to remain solitary and independent. I had no problem interpreting that Ellie knew Joel lied, but cared for him as well, and was willing to accept his faults and move forward. He's not her father, but I didn't see her shunning him either. It's not weak of her to want to keep him in her life.
Completely agree, and I just went on a huge rant about this all these years later until I saw your comment saying pretty much the same thing, albeit in a lot less words lol. Oh well. I just can't relate to Neil's position regarding Ellie's ending AT ALL. It seems to contrived and shallow. Joel is the only father figure Ellie has ever had in her life, they risked everything for each other. They've saved each other countless times. To think Ellie would totally shun him and move on from him because he saved her life and told a white lie to shield her from everything....it's silly. She is still a child at this point. She may have been forced to grow up fast in this world, but the bottom line is she's still a child and Joel is looking out for her best interests. She would have to see that. If she really wanted to sacrifice her life to make the cure, she'd be free to do it on her own in the future. There are other doctors in the world looking to create a cure, it's not like Joel killed the only one.
Joel didn't rob Ellie's ability to make her own decisions because the fireflies never gave her the chance to make her own choice in the first place. They were going to kill her to create the cure whether she agreed to it or not. She was a guinea pig to them, nothing more. The ends justified the means to them. She was reduced to an acceptable loss, rather than a human life, by Marlene. Marlene was playing god and Ellie's destiny was never truly in HER hands throughout the events of TLOU. That wasn't the fault of Joel, but Marlene. Joel saved her life so that she would be alive in the future to make her own choices.
RetroCNY agree 100%. I wish the game had addressed this through Joel’s dialogue, explaining to Ellie that she was just a firefly experiment and her life and her survival is worth more than that
Thanks for uploading and sharing this, It was worth every minute.
Gee as a headphones user my right ear really enjoyed what Neil had to say!
L Dallas yeah lol
Sound only coming out of the right side
Also... She states her greatest fear is ‘being alone’. So why would she want to leave Joel and be alone when he’s the only person on the planet that cares about her what so ever?
I’m trying hard to see he’s interpretation of the ending because he’s the writer and a sequel will obviously be based on this interpretation if they continue the story of Joel and Ellie. But I’m still having trouble seeing it the way he described.
I’ve been a huge fan of this game since release and this is my first time discovering this video. Thank you for uploading. 🙏🏿
I agree, but I'd like to thank you guys for uploading/filming this so much! Even More people should see this!
I think he meant that she might leave him emotionally, not physically. It's not that she won't stick around, she just wants to be more independent and make her own choices instead of being told what to do. I don't think she will actually leave after all they've been through. It wouldn't make any sense, to me at least. Neil has said it many times: "What was intended isn't important. It's what you believe that matters."
This explains a whole lot
I got goosebumps watching that ending again. TLOU IS THE BEST!!
Seeing as how he wrote it, it's not really an opinion. That's what the ending is.
A stereo audio would have been appreciated
I didn't think I was going to watch the whole thing, but it was definitely worth it. Incredibly stimulating.
The greatest writer in video games. Neil's a fucking rockstar now after this game.
Pun intended? Hehe
SurvivalHorrorMaster Maybe if he worked for Rockstar. This was a naughty dog game.
My interpretation was that now, he's the REAL Rockstar, better than Rockstar games XD
Do you still think that?
@@SidPil He's even better with Part 2. Wholeheartedly yes. So glad he got promoted at ND.
Can anyone else hear that music very faintly in the background?
+Sonicisunleashed2008 darude - sandstorm
there a reason why this video is THE most popular video on the channel. The brilliance of druckmann.
The only thing I don't like about the ending is how you walk to the end cut-scene. It is confusing as a gamer because you expect you are going to play a little more, then the cut-scene happens and the game ends. I understand they wanted to put you in Ellie's shoes for the last scene, but they could have left it ambiguous.
That's because I am on the radio.....and recorded this event! Small World!
I would have loved to have been there..ahh everything ND makes me go nuts with enjoyment. Love Neil with all his dorky-ness lol
He's a fanny
And he admits he's super introverted hahahhah
If you aint talented or have programming/comouter skills then youd look like an idiot there.
How is it that we never see the "turned" getting turned and transform into infected ?
"She loves him but she also hates him for what he did"......Neil has said The Last of Us was about love, while Part 2 is about hate.....hmmm
Well more accurately, "revenge is bad".
@@65firered this is true. Also game is awesome imo
well
4 years ago...
This game is the best game ever, I just want to say that except maybe for uncharted I felt like joel I felt like a father and I killed the doctor just because I could see him one step to close to her I killed him without thinking twice and that is the power of this videogame. Giraffes!!
He has always been a good creative mind, but his pitching and ideas need direction, which Bruce Straley worked with very well. They worked amazingly together, I don't understand why would they ever stop working together.
Wow thanks I thought my headphones were broken and threw them out
Naughty Dog didn't come this far to let us down. I look forward to them defining yet another generation in the future.
Hmm really interesting to hear what Neil was going for with the ending. I was one of the ones that suspected Ellie didn't buy what Joel was saying but I did think that she'd be able to perhaps try to understand why he lied to her and they'd go off together to Tommy's despite it. Interesting that that was completely not what Neil was going for, that the "Okay." meant while she loved him for doing what he did for her she also hated him for taking that decision away and desired to move on without him. Makes me pretty fucking depressed if I'm honest, I loved the two of them like father/daughter duo in a way. What a God damn game this was man, incredible. Can't wait for TLOU2, after hearing this I'm intrigued on just where we will start off and with whom.
Totally agree on every point. I thought the same at the end of the game; loved them for their father/daughter relationship; was actually at least a little happy that she chose to accept his lie (out of love, without believing it); and was extremely depressed to hear Neil say it meant something quite different. As for a sequel, I WAS ok with the idea that they wouldn't revisit Joel and Ellie. Then I could just imagine they made it to Tommy's and I could leave them there, safe, in my head. I thought it would be cool to see Ish's story in the sequel, from the time he gets on his boat, to the sewer community, and beyond its collapse. But now I want to know what happens between Joel and Ellie. Does she leave him? Does he go after her? Does she find out he slaughtered all those Fireflies? WHAT HAPPENS?
dbrtube
Absolutely. Was really depressing to hear as I was almost certain that because their connection was so strong she'd be able to understand and accept the lie. But as Neil said she wanted her life to mean something and the choice was taken away from her by a person who she cared about/trusted so while she still loves him it's easy to see why she's angry with him in my opinion. Anyway, rambling on I love this game so much I'm able to talk about it for hours... As you are I'm super excited to continue their story, can't wait!
***** Yeah, definitely played it! I didn't get the same impression you (and plenty others) got though. Lot of people were saying that we learn from the DLC that Ellie understands Joel's selfishness because she effectively did the same with Riley. I don't really see it that way though.
In The Last Of Us, Ellie wanted to sacrifice herself for the cure, she makes that pretty clear at the end of the game. It's unclear whether or not Joel knew that she wanted to sac herself, we have that one scene where Marlene says, "this is what she'd want. And you know it." and then Joel looks down maybe because he does know it or maybe because he's just thinking about what his next move is going to be, but he still was "seflish" and took the decision from her because he didn't want to lose her even if it meant saving everyone.
In Left Behind, it's different. I don't think Ellie was selfish with Riley at all really. It was kinda clear that Riley wanted Ellie to tell her not to go with the fireflies. We learn that when Ellie says, "This is what you've wanted for so long, who am I to stop you?" and Riley replies with, "The one person that can." And that's why at the end when Ellie does tell her, "Don't go" Riley immediately rips off the chain. She wanted to be with Ellie more than she wanted to join the fireflies she was just waiting for Ellie to ask her to stay.
dbrtube That is only his interpretation. If Neil and the gang wanted you to see what he felt the ending meant to them, they wouldn't have left it as ambiguous as they did. It allows for anyone that fully invests in the experience to draw their own interpretations so that they can share with others in what they took away from the game after the credits rolled. Your interpretation is not wrong in any sense. I at first also came away feeling the way you did about Joel and Ellie's relationship and where they would go from there. But I also understood, and even came to accept, how it could have went both ways. You're not wrong by any means, it's just how you felt towards it.
Jacob Anderson They left it ambiguous, but Neil basically told us how Ellie felt about Joel; she loved him but hated him and desired to move on without him and how she "has a good bullshit detector" so she didn't believe the lie. He's not same random guy here, he's the creative director of The Last Of Us, his interpretation of the ending is THE interpretation of the ending... And that's why its so god damn depressing to hear his take on it.
This is by far the best game i have ever played
You can interpret that "okay" in more than one way. If you think about it from Elle's perspective, and think about her whole arc, Neil's interpretation makes perfect sense.
Personally, I feel that Neil's interpretation is the most honest and completes Ellie's arc in a great way.
in the end, we play for Ellie to feel the betrayal as an option, right? while the option can be after the winter to play for the Ellie to the end, except hospital
my right ear enjoyed this
I hope they return to Jak and Daxter one day, they never told the story about how (SPOILERS) Jak went back in time to become Mar and make Haven City.
Neil you need to make a Last of Us 2 we all wan't it!!!!!!!!!
As much as I'd love to see a prequel to last of us I don't think there should be one.
I feel like him and his team should branch off into new things.
Same, I only want to see another last of us game if it does the characters justice.
I don't think they can out do Tlou or if they did, it could end up being too similar. I just miss Joel and Ellie :(
LN Games :)
It's a coming man
39:56 - Neil Druckmann's interpretation.
1:04:15 - He acknowledges that his interpretation of the ending isn't the intentional ending. Yet he fails to see that as consumers of his product, we see him as a writer/creator and so we always see the writer's opinion on the story as factual correct. Because after all he is the creator behind it all. The one who knows the story and everything tied to it better then we do.
This is why when writers of famous pieces of work shouldn't really give in depth interviews/speeches on their work, specifically on endings. As now this restricts players from their own interpretation.
Now that the story is branching into TLOU2, our interpretations of the story plays no part here and the story will follow Druckmann's ending. Meaning his ending is now canon and can't be refuted.
he said his interpretation because any thing was the subject of the team's discussion, which means it wasn't his ending, but the whole team's
As they made an open ending they can make an open start\prehistory
maybe in the style of Joel's 20-year-old hole
Being a hard core Jak fan, I actually dug alot of their early concepts for this reboot of Jak and Daxter surprisingly. I think it would have been really cool and interesting to see that game.
I am a true fan of Naughy Dog since the first Crash Bandicoot .. and I finished every game you guys deliver ... But there is no game in the entire world that I can be more exited about more than Jak 4.
yeah me neither,if she decided she was going to leave him why did she say 'okay',i think it makes a lot more sense that she was accepting his lie at the end,showing how much their bond had developed
The whole presentation is quite amazing, the game itself brilliant and the ending can be perceived simply as a stroke of genius,but...man, concept of the Daxter look bad ass:) I can't help but notice that he looks exactly like Rocket Racoon from recent Guardians Of The Galaxy trailer. Love to see that in a game someday.
That's kinda why i think this ending is so special tho cuz there is more than way of interpreting it.
Fighting back the tears. Amazing speech
40:12 only problem with Neil's interpretation is that Joel robbed Ellie of a choice - this is FALSE. The Fireflies forced Joel's hand because THEY in fact are the ones that didn't give Ellie or Joel a choice or any closure for each other.
@@lrsb1678 Amen to this LRSB. Just finished the game again last night and I felt disgusting killing the Fireflies in the hospital tbh. First time that's happened in nearly 10 years of playing this game, that was my 15th or so playthrough. The Fireflies and Joel didn't give Ellie any say in the matter - they both attempted to control her, and they both attempted to pull a fast one on her. Fireflies through leaving her unconscious and Joel through his lying.
Sadly I wish Joel never lied but if he didn't it wouldn't be such a dang good game.
Its what Ellie wanted, she made that clear in the scene after the giraffes and its why she cut Joel off in Part 2 once she learned the truth
@@KoolAidManOG But she never had the chance to express that. So was Joel just supposed to infer?
It's unethical to kill someone for the lives of others without their consent.
Take this quote:
"The first ethical dilemma is known as “organ transplant” and it supposes that you are a doctor with five patients in need of various organ transplants. Without those organ transplants, all five patients will die. The dilemma arises when an innocent bystander arrives at the hospital and you, the doctor, now must choose to either let this innocent bystander walk away while your five patients die, or to kill the innocent bystander and get the sufficient organ supply needed to save all five patients.
With this dilemma, there is consensus across the general public and the philosophy community that it would be morally impermissible to kill the innocent bystander even if it means the likely survival of all five patients."
It depends on how you interpret Ellie's 'okay.' I see it as Ellie sort of saying to herself, "Okay. He's actually going to lie to me about this. I can't trust him anymore, I know what I need to do." She already basically did confront Joel and accused him of lying when she asked him to swear to her.
She doesn't hate Joel completely, but she knows that if she can't trust him, than who can she trust? She needs to be independent.
Eventually, children have to leave their parents.
Yaa Pittsburgh , I live near Pitt tooo.. Brother we are
lol wonder if he was guessing he would know he would have 1 hour of questions.. Thats great..shows how many people absolutlety love this game
My left ear feels so lonely! Sure there must be a mirror somewhere with stereo sound? jesus
Totally did not expect to hear that much about their future plans. That was so cool to hear that they're thinking about a new IP and also they could continue with TLoU.
Strange as it sounds it would feel kind of almost overwhelming to have another TLoU because the first one was quite heavy, but we'll probably get something a bit different from the other ND team next so after that game I'd be totally ready for another.
she wasn't trying to kill anyone directly I think from her point of view she was trying to save humans from extinction
So he craps on good written female characters because they are too attractive?
Yeah, that's totally not sexist at all. It's totally progressive and not dismissing their accomplishments because they are too attractive.
Well said! WE WANT A NEW JAK AND DAXTER GAME ND! Millions of fans are still waiting.
I wish this was more noticed. Anyone here from Gameranx's video?
Practically Famous I'm here from grant voegtle.
Him and his daughter have matching hair cuts :)
fuckin loved this. I don't have a daughter but thank you for this role model for others.
It makes perfect sense actually. Her saying "Okay" is a lie too in a sense. She's SAYING "Okay", but on the inside she realizes she has to leave him because he's taking her freedom away. He's being almost like an overbearing parent.
Wow, I wish I had been there for this.
This was very interesting.
I would love a new Jak & Daxter but I'm more than happy
with The Last Of Us, one of the best games I've ever played.
the "okay" would signify "okay... this is how you are, I need to carry on..." makes sense to me and something I can relate to personally...
Man i wish there was a new Jak and Daxter game..
I'm glad we got The last of us though, it was a great story.
And i loved the alternate ending, all that singing :)
My right ear enjoyed this
This video has no sound for me...
Turning on 7.1 on my headphones makes it stereo :D
They should include this with the game
36:18
Should've also recorded the drinks bit ;) But thanks for uploading this. Was very insightful.
my right ear enjoyed this!
Wow that was long, but I love hearing Neil talk about this amazing game.
Dat ending
:,) Every time
As a major fan of this game ( The best i played ) I also had a hard time trying to understand it. I was in Joel side through all the game, specially, towards the ending. After thinking about it even more, i realised that Ellie still love him but as any daughter would do it. Kids love their parents but they do it in a kinda selfish way ( Is strange. When they need them, they know they will be there for them, so they start exploring new thing without thinking in them) I did it myself
I have to side with Neil on this. You could really tell he was genuinely upset at the state of women in video games. I'm a big Metal Gear Fan, but when I saw the picture of Quite...*sigh* and the fact her name is "Quit" doesn't give a good first impression. I still don't know what the characters about though, sooo I'll have to wait and see.
The closest thing I can think of, in-terms of good female character in MGS is The Boss
I'm exited to see what Neil and the team is going to do next.
i disagree but see your side of it too
and btw i understand that difference,i was just saying how that part showed in fall showed how she was not ready to continue the mission without joel because he was more important to her..
again thats just what i got from it
A 5th Jak and Daxter game made by Naughty Dog almost 8 years after Jak X, is hardly considered as a franchise being 'raped'. Especially if that franchise is loved by many. Ratchet and Clank is still amazing after all the games they've put out and I eagerly await 'Into The Nexus'.
I just downloaded it and played it with mono sound and that was fine ;)
So damn interesting!
Man they wanted to reboot Jack and Dexter... we got the Last of Us wich is the best game ever but we lost a Jack and Daxter reboot dang it.
My left ear is lonely.
I could listen to Neil talk about TLOU for hours!
thanks
My idea for the last of us 2:
We continue from where we left off. Joel and Ellie going to to Tommy's place. During the journey, Ellie will start feeling the symptoms of being infected. Joel will notice and realise Ellie is turning into an infected creature. Once they got to Tommy's they realise Tommy's place has been attacked so they have moved to a different location. Joel and Ellie will then meet new characters along the way and will meet people who are also just like Ellie. Bitten but not turning. Yet. They then find out that there are people who are special enough to make the infection process slow down. So it takes weeks for them to become infected.
Joel and Ellie fails to find a cure and has lost hope. Joel will lose another daughter. Then Joel finally admits she lied to her about what happened at the fireflies hospital. He then shows Ellie that he got bit whilst looking for a cure for her. Ellie and Joel are now both infected. Ellie recalls what happened between her and Riley
She then say to Joel, lets just wait it out. We can go crazy together etc. Etc. They did. They both fell asleep. Sun rises, Joel wakes up. Ellie is dead. Ellie killed herself. Joel then realises he is the cure. But it was too late to save Ellie. Joel then decided to share his immunity to the rest of the world. The thing he didnt do before. However, he will have to die to get the cure. And he did.
20 years later, we get an epilogue of people living normally like the infection never happened. Joel took the cure away from humanity on TLOU 1. Joel returns the cure for humanity on the sequel. The end.
Prexto Rex I really don't like this idea. No offense. I hate the fact that Joel and Ellie die
You suck, bro
@@aashrithmadagiri6711 heh, about that...
correction: all the enemies that have a choice whether or not to kill are male
yeah but that says that she cared more about the vaccine then joel,which i dont think makes sense since she was clearly ready to abandon the entire mission when she found out joel was gunna leave her in fall
Guy at 1:01:00 has a great radio voice. Does anybody notice that?
Damn I miss this naughty dog
Intention of the creator is not everything. Neil said it himself, "intention means nothing." Art (I believe video games are art) is meaningless if you can't interpret it in different ways.
A new Jak and Daxter game just needs to happen at some point in the near future. STOP TESTING MY FAITH NAUGHTY DOG!!
Neil is too cool.
UNITY LESSONS LITTTT :fire: :100: Kappa
Men and women are equally represented in the multiplayer. I guess there were issues with time/budget so they had to cut them out of the SP.
holy shit! I hope they find some way to put some similar sequence in The Last Of Us 2 when a character is being tortured and you go back in time and all that stuff, it would be so cool and climatic...
I know right. But now that we know, I have a feeling that some people would think that, that would just be a recycled idea if you know what mean.
PBPproductuons1 I know but still, it would be cool to see something like that
Yeah. Def agree.
plz no last of us 2, jak 4!!!
***** whaat? please stop asking for another jak or crash, it won't happen, and when Uncharted ends, when TLOU ends, I won't be begging for other one, because things must evolve, anotherwise the franchise would just end up felling recicled and old, like a lot of other franchises that don't end in order to make more money, now it's the last of us time!
Any chance of a video with fixed sound?
its possible thats what he meant,though in that case he should have been more specific,and yeah the great thing is no ones really wrong about the ending