This is what RUclips was made for. Information by enthusiastic people teaching about obscure things that you would have difficulty specifically researching or even finding unless you're interested in it already. Beautiful.
You are an excellent "natural teacher." You communicate an attitude of, "Hey! Check this out!" and it keeps me interested. You did a great job of showing me where and how this thing works. I write training for a living. You really have a talent for this!!
Jim Shockey im sooo offended at these gender assumptions, now I need to retreat to my safe place and from there I will book some therapy to get me through this HUGE traumer.
steve thornton Really? If you're planning to somehow bar us from making such innocuous statements, as I have observed people like you doing, than you will be causing far more pain than if you simply withstood these imagined offenses, or even better, understood them for what they truly were: an effort to control others so that you can avoid having to grow a spine.
The firing mechanism has remained unchanged and still relies on the same principles. Feed (cock) load (lock) fire (unlock) extract (eject). This is the same across bolt action rifles and electrically operated chain guns.The latter uses a chain which is fitted with a cam that runs across a rectangular path and works along side a Geneva drive to control dwell time between firing rounds.
All of our (now antique) Peerless Roll Leaf machines used a Geneva drive to index the next bottle into printing position. They ran 3 shifts for over 30 years with nothing more than a touch of grease from time to time. The were a quality cast iron construction and were fitted so closely that there was a very minimal orientation error that never seemed to increase over time. A truly remarkable design. Later machines used Camco Units and were very good as well but still a step down from the ultra simple Geneva drives. As a 5 year apprentice Tool Maker I was given the task of building one of the Peerless machines from a pile of scrap machine parts which required making a Geneva drive from scratch and rebuilding all the other moving parts with brass inlays and braze-ups and refit. No time limits (that I knew of) and a few weeks later I presented the finished machine to the General Manager of the printing department. He and his setup people and operators went over it with a fine tooth comb and gave me a thumbs up. The old Tooly's I was training under all gave me a round of applause when I came back to the department, a hand shake and an atta boy. One of the proudest moments of my 47 years as a Tool Maker. All manual machines and hand tools. Computers hadn't been invented yet except in big research facilities. I'm not sure that today's machinists will ever have any experience like that. For that I am truly sad.
Ironically I believe the shutter in a film projector was essentially silent because it was basically a fan wheel that rotated, intermittently blocking the light through the lens, not touching any other components so not making any noise.
FYI, sorry he is wrong about the sound. the projector is silent when there is no film in the projector. Film projectors require a upper and lower loop which is a buffer area. The loops flap which is the cause of the sound you associate with a film projector. This thing he is showing in this video is called the intermittent sprocket and is found only in professional film projectors, mostly 35mm and 70mm. 16mm and 8mm use a claw system.
Actually, really professional 16MM machines use a intermittent sprocket as well...I used to be a Projectionist, and I actually ran a few 16MM machines with a intermittent sprocket. Some manufacturers that made these were Norelco, Zeiss, and Kinoton.
It was designed in the early 1910s by a french engineer for a fighter aircraft, in a patrol operation he encountered a german aircraft, but crash landed after a fatal damage in the wings, he tried to burn the plane so the germans cannot find his sync meccanism, but failed and was taken as a war prisoner and her invention was mass produced for the new fokker airplanes. Interesting history...
Why was this in my recommended, why am I watching it and why do I like it so much? I suddenly have a huge fascination with gears and simple machines like this...
As a former projectionist, I can tell you that the sound from modern film projectors was not caused by this drive. If you ran the projector drive, you hear a slight clatter, as to be expected of the intermittent rollers. Most of the clacking actually came from the film expanding and shrinking due to the intermittent gear. When a projector is threaded, a small excess loop is left above and below the aperture, as the project feeds film into the projector continuously; however, the film has to stop for the slit second light hits the aperture to create a clear picture on the screen. The loops above and below the aperture expand and shrink rapidly due to this stopping motion and create the known sound of the projector clacking.
And you always knew when the loops were too small. It would get stupid loud. Nothing annoyed me more when someone would thread one for me and not leave me any clear leader to check the loops before runtime. More often than not they would leave me with the head of the first trailer in the gate.
and the intermittent sprocket is controlled by the 'cross box' with is a four slot version of this drive. Film sound, both optical and magnetic, runs at a constant speed, normal 'standard' for 35mm film is 24 frames per second.
I worked in a theatre with a film projector (a sort of "sensurround" theatre in a theme park) and most of the clatter on it was from the shutter between the lamp and the film. Before observing the operation, I had no idea that some projectors (if not all) had a shutter mechanism. (For those reading this who don't know, this smooths the image so you see flashing pictures rather than a massive streaked blur.)
@Inesophet you are absolutely right, RUclips keeps track of the videos you watch to create a profile of what you like for recommendations, but on a more creepy side, site's like Fakebook actually watch your facial expressions through your camera, with facial recognition technology. They also listen to you talk through your microphone . They then build a profile of things you like, dislike, interested in, ect, and they sell it..... This is also why you can (talk only) about something and then see it in a ad on fakebook or in a suggested Google search seconds later. ⚠️ 🙊🙈🙉 ⚠️
The Whalens "who cares what is recommended to you? Move on, loser." clearly you do since you're telling me to move on and plus the insult means you put in emotions in it therefore you do care about the recommended because you are said to me "Move on,loser" and if you really do not care you would have left this alone but no, you just had to say how much you *cough* "dont care" *cough* and also for you're information look at the likes and tell me straight in the face "who cares" stop trying to be cool and show the world how much you dont care when in reality your clearly care also "what is recommended to me?" well it's how i can find cool and awesome videos some channels i would have never find without it and it's very good to me but this video tho has nothing related to ANYTHING i watched yet it poop up even after i put a "not interested" on it so tell me also straight in the bloody as face! "what is recommended to you" but when am looking at this you seems to don't care about what is recommended to you, maybe it's because you "don't care" *cough* ohhh please.....
Much of the sound you hear in a film movie projector is the sound of the film being quickly advanced to the next frame by this mechanism as well as the shutter opening when the next frame on the film has been positioned briefly before being snapped closed again so the film can be advanced another frame. The film is kept with a certain amount of slack before the frame that is currently being shown on the screen. When the mechanism advances to the next frame, this slack is temporarily taken up, making the loudest contribution to the sound you hear when a move projector is playing a reel of film. This is why the projector is much quieter when you first turn it on to feed the film through the projector. The Geneva drive is still operating, but once the stiff film is fed through, the film its self makes all of the racket the way it is handled by the Geneva drive mechanism. Thank you fire sharing! I learned something new today! :)
I've had a brand new 3d printer sitting in its box for over 18 months now. It was a gift that i wasn't interested in. Ya know, i might just go ahead and start learning it. Thanks man, very neat video!
I used to repair machinery that assembled trigger sprayers, ( think windex or 409 cleaner). Some of them used a Geneva wheel to place the cap in position. A very robust and elegant mechanism. They very rarely needed repair. The pin was a roller so not much problem with wear. 1 cycle per second 24 hours a day.
I was just wondering the same thing about mounting the pin on a bearing. It seems like that would eliminate the wear problem entirely for most applications.
William Weibel I'm thinking: how about the device being created with a few polymers. Polymer example being 3D printing filaments. Specific properties for each part required, could be achieved using the correct 3d filament for each part. Nylon 3d filament for example; is a 3d filament polymer. The use of this kind of material(s) for the parts that make up the assembly of the "Geneva joint" (whichever one you use as the video lists a few examples of them from watch parts) would probably aid tremendously to the length of time the assembly would operate without maintenance. Also, As you suggested; I too would be very interested in the testing of of various complex joint assemblies with solutions only possible with today's technology. :-)
1 cycle per second is extremely slow. The video mentioned "hundreds of rpm". If the geneva wheel is only durable at 1 cycle per second or similarly small speeds, then it can be considered a very undurable mechanism.
What version replaced this? It's a mechanical invention. Are you just saying that mechanical has been replaced by digital? It hasn't been replaced. It's more popular and has replaced in some areas only. It will never make sense in all areas.
As for a military application, I have come across a magnification changing setup from a tank periscope: the changer is a drum with three positions that brings a different lens combination into the light path and has to do so very exactly.
I am a Mechanical engineer myself and here I was thinking I knew everything there is know about Geneva mechanism. Boy, was I wrong. Much respect to the research put into making this video.
I was thinking more taking a round off of a rack and placing it inline with the chamber to be inserted rather than the act of loading it into the chamber. I wasn't really considering hand guns in all honesty.
CK's channel. your a child charlie brown... revolver cylanders no our friend is correct it comes off a rack and loads it to the chamber, secrurely places it inside the chamber and fires it
The Model 1862 Gatling used a Geneva gear shape for it's loader. Obviously, it wasn't a gear. It had no timing or "stop motion" functions. Richard Gatling had used a similarly shaped device for a wheat planting device dating to 1839. The thickly cut "Geneva" wheel carries the paper or brass shell in the slot, and the outer surface is convex rather than concave. It's # 5 in the patent drawing found here: www.google.com/patents/US36836 . By 1893, Gatling had developed an electrically powered version of the gun that was supposedly capable of 3000 rounds per minute. it's amazing to see the increased complexity between the two weapons. The patent drawings for the 1893 gun can be found at: www.google.com/patents/US502185 .
In regards to military use, Australian inventor Arthur Bishop utilized the Geneva Mechanism in his tail wheel strut for the Bristol Beaufort Bomber which was in use by the RAF during WWII. The book Driven by Ideas: The Story of Arthur Bishop, a Great Australian Inventor by Clare Brown talks about this in greater detail and includes photos of the gearing used.
Some older gatling guns have a similar mechanism, where the firing pin is in a fixed location and the Geneva mechanism is essentially used to mechanically time when the firing pin mechanism triggers when a loaded barrel is in the proper position.
Just started looking around for a printable version of this mechanism! So glad to have the video from Angus to explain it, but the design is no longer available to download anywhere. Does anyone know of a repo where the old Patreon models can be accessed now? I'm happy to still pay for it.
"North American X-15 This aircraft has the current world record for the fastest manned aircraft. Its maximum speed was mach 6.70 (about 7,200 km/h) which it attained on the 3rd of October 1967 thanks to its pilot William J. “Pete” Knight." sr-71 blackbird speed is like 50% of world record... but hey at least u trayed and plenty of people bought that! :P
Bialy I believe that Computerfrenzy probably was referring to airbreating, production aircraft. The "X" on any airframe refers to its experimental status, whereas the "SR" classification referred to an airframe that was was NOT experimental, but was instead a "Strategic Reconnaissance" aircraft. Also, the SR-71 IS the fastest airbreating aircraft in the world, and still holds many speed records until this day. If the new SR-72 ever goes into production, it will likely overtake the SR-71 in every respect, but until that day arrives, the SR-71 still reigns supreme.
The X-15 appears to be more of a manned rocket than a plane, and used as an experimental craft for learning more about applied physics at those kinds of extreme speeds as well as reaching outer space (how does one steer without wind drag over control surfaces, etc..). The SR-71 was, by comparison, a successful production craft. As such, probably fair to call the SR-71 the fastest _production_ airplane (declassified). ;)
D otA Yes. And that is essentially exactly what I said in my post above, in which I explained that the "SR" designation was used for PRODUCTION airframes, and meant "Strategic Reconnaissance" aircraft. Also, a very important distinction is that the X-15, in which the "X," by comparison, stood for "Experimental," was not an air-breathing airframe. It was a manned, small capacity (by comparison to other rockets) rocket ship, whereas the SR-71 was an air-breathing, bat-out-of-Hell go-getter. It's unofficial record of Mach 3.5+, in an evasion maneuver to avoid a bevy of SAMs coming its way over Libya circa 1985 (or was it 1986?) highlighted the peak performance of the Pratt & Whitney J58 engines, which could churn out as much as 150,000 kNs at altitude.
Some years back, I worked on a machine that used a Geneva mechanism. This was an indexing drive that would advance a conveyor one step for each revolution of the main shaft. It was a cammed slot design in a cardioid pattern. As one had two cam followers and the drive plate had the slot. The machine was an AMF 3-175 bread wrapper.
The Brunswick A and the A-2 pinsetters for bowling used a pair of Geneva cams to shift the moving deck back and forth to allow for the setting of the bowling pins.
The Geneva stop's purpose is not prevention of overwinding a watch mainspring. Actually, the "overwound" spring is a myth. Mainspring breakage is by fatigue. If you intentionally try to overwind a watch, anything in the winding mechanism will break before the spring, probably including that stop! No, the stop was there to eliminate the very weak and the very strong torque of the spring at the beginning and end of winding. Out of 6 possible turns of the barrel, only 4 were used. The spring is "set up" one turn and stopped at the 5th. In this way, the spring is used where it gives the least variation in torque. Earlier watch movements were more sensitive to torque fluctuation, making their rate erratic. Modern mechanical movements have overcome this flaw almost completely by various means, so the stopwork is no longer needed.
What absolute BS! "No, the stop was there to eliminate the very weak and the very strong torque of the spring at the beginning and end of winding." That's RUBBISH! The ingenious backward and forward movement of the escapement mechanism (pendulum or wheel)allows for the varying spring force. That's the whole point of it!!!!! That's why spring powered clocks tick loudly when fully wound and softly when running out, but still keep correct time until they stop.
Remo Peter overwinding the spring doesn't break it but it does cause them to lose most of their tension. Thats why a lot of old clocks and watches tend to only run for a few hours before needing wound again
John Somerset - While it's true that a mechanical wristwatch can handle the varying torque from the main spring unwinding, I believe some of the most accurate pocket watches used a fusee to even out the force of the main spring. I am no expert, but I would not call the varying force a feature, but rather an engineering challenge that needs to be dealt with.
You asked for military usage examples. In the early 1960s the Geneva Drive was used in anti aircraft missiles to switch specific electronic functions on or off during flight.
The Heidelberg Windmill printing press uses the same principal for driving the paper gripper. In the partbook it's called the "Malthese cross" (part number T 1503).
The great grand daddy of the sprag clutch, lol. The useful duties for the mechanism are low speed, or incredibly low mass parts (the tool caddy indexer, and the projector aperture/sprag respectively). Granted, not incredibly suited to cnc mill operations, but could probably find plenty of use in a pipe factory, or sawmill. As for military use, I humbly submit the breech mechanism of the Hotchkiss auto-cannon, a hand cranked mechanism used by navies world wide about a century and a quarter ago. You will also find them in rotating breeches of artillery, and lever operated "single leg" examples in vertical block sliding mechanisms for guns from Sharpe's buffalo swatters to modern field pieces. The "index detent" of the mechanism is nicely seen in Remington "rolling block" action of the 1860s, which was used by just about everybody at some time up until WW1. I call it "the age of cranks and cams" in arms design because such old ponies as this mechanism held the limelight and got all the girls in that era. Of course, those flashy knee action toggle joints sent them packing before long, lol
A sprag clutch is a type of one way clutch (the other common one is the ramp roller clutch which is commonly (and incorrectly) called a "one way bearing"), it has nothing to do with indexed movement. All it does is allow a shaft to rotate freely in one direction and stops it from rotating in the other. This is useful when you need to apply power to a shaft from an intermittent power source while allowing the shaft to spin freely in one direction when power is not being applied. A common example of this is a bicycle. Also large RC helicopters use them on then main reduction gear. The gear that drives the tail rotor is fixed to the mainshaft of the rotor and the reduction gear between the motor and the mainshaft has a sprag or ramp roller clutch so that if the motor stops it will not act as a brake on the rotor system and it will be possible to auto rotate to a safe landing.
I stumbled upon this after falling in a youtube-suggestion black-hole but, holy shit, this is one of the best educational videos I've seen in ages. Detailed explanations and lots of context. Congrats!
If you're looking for military application, the rotating-barrel gatling gun spins to reduce heat wear on the barrel and uses a similar mechanism to hold the barrels in place while the bullet is traveling through it, rotating to the next barrel once it's clear.
The Geneva Mechanism or a variant was used on World War II era tanks. Or at least some German Ones. Early Autocannons and smaller ones with lower rates of fire used a variant called a Geneva gear to time the mechanism for loading rounds. It was also used in some early Machine Guns to pull a ammo belt. One odd fact I know and have seen is it usually was lubricated/cooled by the same lubrication system as the vehicle or by the Water Cooling mechanism of the firearm. Oh and when used they were either insulated by metal or where around louder sounds like an engine or a firearm report.
I repaired film 8mm and 16mm projectors for many years. I saw the Geneva movement only in a few high-end theater-style 16mm projectors. Compared to the more common mechanisms in most other projectors, I found the Geneva mechanism much less prone to wear and problems than the common cam and follower setups in other machines. Geneva was a lot easier to fix too. If you think the Geneva movement is "violent," you should see the cam and follower stuff in other 8mm and 16mm units! Most of those wore out very quickly. Cams, followers, belts and rubber idlers were the bulk of what I had to replace regularly. Sound and lighting (especially xenon arc) were also problem areas.
WTF dude, this is too awesome and intellegant for a dumb toymaker like me. i really enjoyed this one, i gotta say for me this is one of my all time favourite of your vids. Awesome stuff thanks for all your efforts on this. as a watch collector i was geeking out on this!!!
Today it's used in nuclear bombs. It's all a game of timing in nuclear bomb cuz they have to decide the timing of explosion of first two isotopes.. There this mechanism is used
Can confirm, I've been a Cinema Projection and Sound technician for the last 14 years. These were part of the intermittent sprocket assembly for every 35mm projector I serviced right until they all went to the scrapyard during the digital projection rollout.
Not quite. Cheaper projectors used a claw to advance the film; not good, could tear the film. Better projectors used this mech. Were always called maltese cross in projector parlance.
Exactly - AFAIK some were made with stepper motors, but I never saw a 35 mm projector with anything but a Maltese cross. They only went out of use with the switch to digital. My engineering student friends were thrilled to see the schematics. The characteristic sound is not, however, from the mechanism - it's from the two loops of the film, one on each side, to allow the film to run smoothly through the rest of the machinery while being pulled frame by frame through the film gate, and you could hear at a distance if they were the right size. You'd have the same sound (or most of it) with a stepper motor.
M 60 machine gun The 501 machine gun are line types of the Geneva drive just linearly design of it and is how the fresh ammo is loaded into these machines I was an ordinance NCO through the racks to Sargent Us. Army retired
As far as military use, I’m an engine mech on legacy c-130’s. The fuel control on a t-56 has a ‘Geneva lock’ a fuel shut off lock/valve. I wonder if it used this design or something similar.
the military use for this drive is on jets with rocket launchers, it's the mechanism that loads the next rocket after one is fired. also used to load cannon fire , torpedos, machine gun fire on 360 degrees swivel gun
Well, as much as we have modern automation with stepper and servo motors, sometimes it’s still best to use the old tech that’s as reliable as clockworks!
Good explanation .. only slight error was the bit about overwinding a watch.... being a watchmaker myself the overwinding is wrongly identified...what really is happening is the mainspring has been wound up to its tightest and from here something in the watch gearing is preventing the mechanism from "running down" thus preventing the mainspring from returning to its relaxed position
Back in the '70s EMI Medical used this to drive the rotation of the first whole body (CAT)scanner. It was also used to drive the rotation of British tank turret control. No matter where the turret points the turret gun is locked in position for firing.
The IBM punched card machines of the early computer equipment used the Geneva mechanism to advance the cards through the 12 rows of hole positions of the Hollerith code.
Gatling guns and revolvers use indexing mechanical drive mechanisms. Machine guns on old propeller planes had a mechanical index interlock that kept bullets from hitting the propeller and causing damage. Belt fed machine guns also use indexing mechanisms to bring each new round into the breach. This is also how chain fed CNC tool indexes work. Had a 100 tool changer on a Nagata horizontal mill at a place I worked several years ago and that chain used exactly the type of drive index you show to bring each tool carrier into position for the crazy fast tool changes. Thousands of applications for this.
there is a type of complication in mechanical watches called "jump hour" where the hour changes over in a window like a digital watch. I think a 12 slotted dwell is what makes this happen, but I'm just guessing.
IVe seen old lock mechanisms for doors that employ an aspect of the Geneva mechanism.. By "old" I mean the mid nineteenth century. Military application? I expect the Gatling Gun used the Geneva and possibly the invention that permitted WWI fighter pilots to have their machine gun mounted between the cockpit and the propellor and timing the precise firing of the bullet to occur in the time frame whereby the ......its way too early in the morning. Thanks for producing this, it was intensely interesting.
The interrupter gear on aircraft was actually simpler than that: the propeller of an aircraft actually rotates faster than a normal machine gun can reasonably be expected to fire, so there's no point 'interrupting' the gun from firing when a propeller blade is in its path because usually when this occurs the gun is not ready to fire anyway (it's busy loading the next bullet). Instead the gun was modified to only fire once per trigger pull, similar to a semiautomatic rifle. A combination of a cam on the engine and a set of levers coupled to the pilot's firing button pulled the gun's trigger once per rotation of the propeller whilst ever the pilot had the button held down. This resulted in the gun automatically firing at a slightly reduced rate that synced up with the propeller.
The 16mm projectors made by Bell and Howell for educational and other uses did not use a Geneva. A swash plate moved the pins that engaged the film in and out of the sprocket holes. The stepping movement of the film into and from the frame aperture was controlled by two pins, one resting on each edge of a spinning constant-diameter "wheel". The variation in the radius of the "wheel" determined the distance required to move the film from frame-to-frame.
It seems the "geneva stop" shown in 1:50 is not only stopped, but blocked from any purposed function, unless someone dismantle it and put the driving wheel back on the axle with the pin positioned for the square notches.
example of a military use of this : auto-loader on the M1 Abrams and the Cesar (artillery support cannon) (even if it is mostly manually operated, i personally saw the automatic one, being able to fire 6 shots by minutes) (6 shots to a maximum of 38~km, how awesome is that !?) similar uses can be seen on some machineguns auto-changing mag ! also, if i'm not mistaken, the 120mm cannon on the AC-130 uses this aswell.
5 stars! Amazed by your enthusiastic and intelligent presentation. This one video took a lot of work! Equally impressed by the intelligent and interesting comments by the audience.
In model railroading, this is a great way to have a turntable (A piece of track that spins on a center pivot, useful for turning locomotives around) stop at exactly the right spot every time. I have an older Atlas brand turntable that does use a Geneva mechanism to ensure the rails on the turntable line up with the tracks leading to the turntable pit. Geneva mechanisms do allow a good deal of precision, and if the rails are misaligned even slightly, the engine derails.
Interesting video. I would like to share a point of grammar. Every time I do this, someone flames me for being picky. I'm not, really. I'm just autistic. (So everyone, please, save the hate, because there's no hate over here on my side.) The term "added bonus" is redundant. By definition, all bonuses are something that is added. Just say "bonus". All good wishes!
Let's see it in another perspective. Everytime you give an offer, you want to make it more seductive. One way of doing this is to subtly repeat it. As a bonus... wait are you listening? As an added bonus... Come back often for more!
The M16 Rifle uses a similar mechanism for timing, within the trigger assembly. On newer models, where there is a "burst" function instead of fully automatic fire, (The weapon shoots 3 bullets for every trigger press), the device is in the "stop" configuration with a total of 6 dwells. Research the trigger mechanism of the lower receiver of the M16A1 and M16A2 to see the difference.
Convert the rotational motion into linear motion, you now have something that thrusts in and out very quickly with a pause between. Why did I think of this I'll never know
Attach rotational-to-linear motion converter to driven wheel. Affix phallic object. Insert into driven person. Spin. Bonus points for only using one lubricant in the whole contraption.
+viperfan7 (a) it's obvious (b) I don't think that's the exact form of motion you want; rapid, sharp thrusts don't seem pleasant, you want a smooth acceleration/deceleration to prevent injury. I assume.
We used one in aircraft navigation equipment, the antenna had to switch wave guides and used a Geneva drive. First thing we did troubleshooting the aircraft for problems, put our ear to the cargo bay and listen for the "clack" of the Geneva gear.
The Hypocycloid and epicycloid mechanisms are probably the master categories of these mechanisms and gear sets. There are also the Harmonic Drive, the Planetary Gears, the .Ravigneaux planetary gearset, NuVinci Continuously Variable Transmissions, Continuosly variable transmissions, the lock-up torque converters, the Koenigsegg Direct Drive (KDD) system, etc. Ever sharpen a pencil with the old wall mounted pencil sharpener? Take a look at the gearing system! How does a revolver revolve one cylinder at a time?
Yeah! But I think "outdated" is inappropriate, because there is no reason to imply that this mechanism is outdated. It works, and it would be stupid to forget that :-(
It does work well and is mechanically reliable at that. If you're design has no concern for driveshaft vibration, wear/backlash and acceleration, the geneva mechanism is a good choice for a full mechanical design.
That's not where the biggest source of friction comes from. To keep the driven wheel indexed when it's not rotating, the curved concave outer faces rub against a similarly curved convex surface on the drive wheel. If you go to 0:53 and 1:18 in the video, the illustrations quite clearly show the large bearing faces that are engaged during the time the indexing pin is out of contact with the driven wheel. Per revolution, those large bearing surfaces stay in contact longer than than the indexing pin does. That curved locking surface on the drive wheel is not a full circle, otherwise the driven wheel would never be able to unlock to index to the next position. Because of that, there's no simple way to replace either of those surfaces with a bearing. Not only would you need to put a bearing on the index pin, you'd need at least four bearings (probably more) along the curved surface of the drive wheel in order to ensure adequate support to prevent the driven wheel from turning prematurely. That would significantly increase the complexity and bulk of the mechanism.
Could you use this on a revolver to get the cylinder to rotate and line up the rounds inside the barrel? There'd have to be some kind of ratcheting mechanism involved as well.
This is what RUclips was made for. Information by enthusiastic people teaching about obscure things that you would have difficulty specifically researching or even finding unless you're interested in it already. Beautiful.
And cats. Please don't forget cats.
Tldr
RUclips
A place where you learn most your stuff. Not school
Herman Manly don’t forget the almighty algorithm
Yeah
It was made for this stuff, not little kids
You hear me COPPA
I could not have put it better.
You are an excellent "natural teacher." You communicate an attitude of, "Hey! Check this out!" and it keeps me interested. You did a great job of showing me where and how this thing works. I write training for a living. You really have a talent for this!!
This is the pure side of RUclips. I enjoy
Thanks man! I try to keep things somewhat useful :)
did you just assume his gender!!!!11oneone
lol sorry
Wha'?! Whoa! Did you just use the term "gender?" :o}
Jim Shockey im sooo offended at these gender assumptions, now I need to retreat to my safe place and from there I will book some therapy to get me through this HUGE traumer.
steve thornton Really? If you're planning to somehow bar us from making such innocuous statements, as I have observed people like you doing, than you will be causing far more pain than if you simply withstood these imagined offenses, or even better, understood them for what they truly were: an effort to control others so that you can avoid having to grow a spine.
The Geneva drive is used in the 7.62mm and 30mm chaingun that is fitted to many armored fighting vehicles and helicopters.
Huh I was trying to think of one but I never thought it would be for a cycling rounds
The firing mechanism has remained unchanged and still relies on the same principles. Feed (cock) load (lock) fire (unlock) extract (eject). This is the same across bolt action rifles and electrically operated chain guns.The latter uses a chain which is fitted with a cam that runs across a rectangular path and works along side a Geneva drive to control dwell time between firing rounds.
mark price the 20mm as well
The Geneva Suggestion
And prior to all the electrics, was/is used in the hand-cranked Gatling gun, with mechanical advantage from a crank substituting for a motor.
All of our (now antique) Peerless Roll Leaf machines used a Geneva drive to index the next bottle into printing position. They ran 3 shifts for over 30 years with nothing more than a touch of grease from time to time. The were a quality cast iron construction and were fitted so closely that there was a very minimal orientation error that never seemed to increase over time. A truly remarkable design. Later machines used Camco Units and were very good as well but still a step down from the ultra simple Geneva drives. As a 5 year apprentice Tool Maker I was given the task of building one of the Peerless machines from a pile of scrap machine parts which required making a Geneva drive from scratch and rebuilding all the other moving parts with brass inlays and braze-ups and refit. No time limits (that I knew of) and a few weeks later I presented the finished machine to the General Manager of the printing department. He and his setup people and operators went over it with a fine tooth comb and gave me a thumbs up. The old Tooly's I was training under all gave me a round of applause when I came back to the department, a hand shake and an atta boy. One of the proudest moments of my 47 years as a Tool Maker. All manual machines and hand tools. Computers hadn't been invented yet except in big research facilities. I'm not sure that today's machinists will ever have any experience like that. For that I am truly sad.
that blows my mind! i've always wondered where the clicking sound in old film projectors came from
IKR, one of those facts that change how you think about things, I always thought it was a shutter.
Ironically I believe the shutter in a film projector was essentially silent because it was basically a fan wheel that rotated, intermittently blocking the light through the lens, not touching any other components so not making any noise.
Stephen Baldassarre always an expert about
FYI, sorry he is wrong about the sound. the projector is silent when there is no film in the projector. Film projectors require a upper and lower loop which is a buffer area. The loops flap which is the cause of the sound you associate with a film projector. This thing he is showing in this video is called the intermittent sprocket and is found only in professional film projectors, mostly 35mm and 70mm. 16mm and 8mm use a claw system.
Actually, really professional 16MM machines use a intermittent sprocket as well...I used to be a Projectionist, and I actually ran a few 16MM machines with a intermittent sprocket.
Some manufacturers that made these were Norelco, Zeiss, and Kinoton.
25 mm Bushmaster Cannon. Firing cycle of operation...Sear, Feed, ram, Fire, "Dwell", misfire, extract. Common Weapon System on Light Armored Vehicles.
Huh I didn't know that, cool
Its only in the feed though The barrels are chain driven but yes hes right
Mk44, M242 and M230
Automatic candy wrapping machines also use it...........
That’s the 242 right? Worked on them before, sometimes the feed is a huge pain
Military use: syncing weapons fire with the propeller blades of an air craft so pilots could aim using the main body of it.
An interrupter gear.
I don't know if it's a variant of a geneva drive or not, I haven't seen one, just know a little about it's history.
That's interesting, thanks for the knowledge
That's actually just a simple cam and follower mechanism, letting the gun trigger whilst there is no propeller blade in front of it.
A wild guess is that this can be used in a revolver
It was designed in the early 1910s by a french engineer for a fighter aircraft, in a patrol operation he encountered a german aircraft, but crash landed after a fatal damage in the wings, he tried to burn the plane so the germans cannot find his sync meccanism, but failed and was taken as a war prisoner and her invention was mass produced for the new fokker airplanes. Interesting history...
Why was this in my recommended, why am I watching it and why do I like it so much? I suddenly have a huge fascination with gears and simple machines like this...
and 3D printers, now I want a 3D printer, and a lab, and........
@@Bnkrobber A 3D printer would make a really shitty geneva drive. You need a well equipped machine shop and a very skilled machinist.
@@WCM1945 or a cnc lathe...and a 3d modelling software...
Your pfp really reflects your comment
As a former projectionist, I can tell you that the sound from modern film projectors was not caused by this drive. If you ran the projector drive, you hear a slight clatter, as to be expected of the intermittent rollers. Most of the clacking actually came from the film expanding and shrinking due to the intermittent gear.
When a projector is threaded, a small excess loop is left above and below the aperture, as the project feeds film into the projector continuously; however, the film has to stop for the slit second light hits the aperture to create a clear picture on the screen. The loops above and below the aperture expand and shrink rapidly due to this stopping motion and create the known sound of the projector clacking.
And you always knew when the loops were too small. It would get stupid loud. Nothing annoyed me more when someone would thread one for me and not leave me any clear leader to check the loops before runtime. More often than not they would leave me with the head of the first trailer in the gate.
and the intermittent sprocket is controlled by the 'cross box' with is a four slot version of this drive. Film sound, both optical and magnetic, runs at a constant speed, normal 'standard' for 35mm film is 24 frames per second.
thanks Tyler Durden
I worked in a theatre with a film projector (a sort of "sensurround" theatre in a theme park) and most of the clatter on it was from the shutter between the lamp and the film. Before observing the operation, I had no idea that some projectors (if not all) had a shutter mechanism. (For those reading this who don't know, this smooths the image so you see flashing pictures rather than a massive streaked blur.)
thank you very interesting :)
RUclipss algorythm got better, i didnt even know im interested in this...but well. Now i do.
While you are right, the algorithm took a year longer to find me :D
@@Allexz LOL
@Inesophet you are absolutely right, RUclips keeps track of the videos you watch to create a profile of what you like for recommendations, but on a more creepy side, site's like Fakebook actually watch your facial expressions through your camera, with facial recognition technology. They also listen to you talk through your microphone . They then build a profile of things you like, dislike, interested in, ect, and they sell it..... This is also why you can (talk only) about something and then see it in a ad on fakebook or in a suggested Google search seconds later. ⚠️ 🙊🙈🙉 ⚠️
Mind reading algorithmic AI😂
@@Allexz took me 3 years longer lol
i have not watched ANYTHING related to this video yet for some reason
it Recommended this to me
fine youtube you win
Stefan Sampang Never click on recommended video it will just recommend you more simmilar videos...
oh no....
+Clash You say that like it's a bad thing
The Whalens "who cares what is recommended to you? Move on, loser."
clearly you do since you're telling me to move on and plus the insult means you put in emotions in it therefore you do care about the recommended because you are said to me "Move on,loser" and if you really do not care you would have left this alone but no, you just had to say how much you *cough* "dont care" *cough* and also for you're information look at the likes and tell me straight in the face "who cares"
stop trying to be cool and show the world how much you dont care when in reality your clearly care
also "what is recommended to me?" well it's how i can find cool and awesome videos some channels i would have never find without it and it's very good to me but this video tho has nothing related to ANYTHING i watched yet it poop up even after i put a "not interested" on it so tell me also straight in the bloody as face! "what is recommended to you" but when am looking at this you seems to don't care about what is recommended to you, maybe it's because you "don't care" *cough* ohhh please.....
columbus8myhw it is bad thing if you don't like that type of videos...
I really like those 'Look at this nifty mechanism!' videos you make. Like the one about the not-a-crank crank.
Ayyy, extra credits boiiii
Yeeeah, dude!
Much of the sound you hear in a film movie projector is the sound of the film being quickly advanced to the next frame by this mechanism as well as the shutter opening when the next frame on the film has been positioned briefly before being snapped closed again so the film can be advanced another frame. The film is kept with a certain amount of slack before the frame that is currently being shown on the screen. When the mechanism advances to the next frame, this slack is temporarily taken up, making the loudest contribution to the sound you hear when a move projector is playing a reel of film. This is why the projector is much quieter when you first turn it on to feed the film through the projector. The Geneva drive is still operating, but once the stiff film is fed through, the film its self makes all of the racket the way it is handled by the Geneva drive mechanism. Thank you fire sharing! I learned something new today! :)
I've had a brand new 3d printer sitting in its box for over 18 months now. It was a gift that i wasn't interested in. Ya know, i might just go ahead and start learning it. Thanks man, very neat video!
Fascinating. I love how your channel is so packed with information. Very entertaining.
I used to repair machinery that assembled trigger sprayers, ( think windex or 409 cleaner). Some of them used a Geneva wheel to place the cap in position. A very robust and elegant mechanism. They very rarely needed repair. The pin was a roller so not much problem with wear. 1 cycle per second 24 hours a day.
I was just wondering the same thing about mounting the pin on a bearing. It seems like that would eliminate the wear problem entirely for most applications.
Toolman329 Agreed. My use of the word "entirely" was an exaggeration. But, it would be interesting to see data on cost vs MTBF for such a solution.
William Weibel I'm thinking: how about the device being created with a few polymers. Polymer example being 3D printing filaments. Specific properties for each part required, could be achieved using the correct 3d filament for each part.
Nylon 3d filament for example; is a 3d filament polymer.
The use of this kind of material(s) for the parts that make up the assembly of the "Geneva joint" (whichever one you use as the video lists a few examples of them from watch parts) would probably aid tremendously to the length of time the assembly would operate without maintenance.
Also, As you suggested; I too would be very interested in the testing of of various complex joint assemblies with solutions only possible with today's technology. :-)
Or coat the pin in a slick polymer, like one from the teflon family, and chrome the lining of the stays.
1 cycle per second is extremely slow. The video mentioned "hundreds of rpm". If the geneva wheel is only durable at 1 cycle per second or similarly small speeds, then it can be considered a very undurable mechanism.
Never out dated, just another great idea created because it was needed.
Outdated in the sense of being replaced by a better version. Still a great innovation that encourages future inventors to think outside the box.
What version replaced this? It's a mechanical invention. Are you just saying that mechanical has been replaced by digital? It hasn't been replaced. It's more popular and has replaced in some areas only. It will never make sense in all areas.
As for a military application, I have come across a magnification changing setup from a tank periscope: the changer is a drum with three positions that brings a different lens combination into the light path and has to do so very exactly.
I am a Mechanical engineer myself and here I was thinking I knew everything there is know about Geneva mechanism. Boy, was I wrong. Much respect to the research put into making this video.
I can see that being used in ammo loaders.
Ammo loading is usually just lever or ratchet action induced by the weapon itself. Think revolver cylinders...
I was thinking more taking a round off of a rack and placing it inline with the chamber to be inserted rather than the act of loading it into the chamber.
I wasn't really considering hand guns in all honesty.
CK's channel. your a child charlie brown... revolver cylanders no our friend is correct it comes off a rack and loads it to the chamber, secrurely places it inside the chamber and fires it
German Luger used something similar to this
The Model 1862 Gatling used a Geneva gear shape for it's loader. Obviously, it wasn't a gear. It had no timing or "stop motion" functions. Richard Gatling had used a similarly shaped device for a wheat planting device dating to 1839. The thickly cut "Geneva" wheel carries the paper or brass shell in the slot, and the outer surface is convex rather than concave. It's # 5 in the patent drawing found here: www.google.com/patents/US36836 .
By 1893, Gatling had developed an electrically powered version of the gun that was supposedly capable of 3000 rounds per minute. it's amazing to see the increased complexity between the two weapons. The patent drawings for the 1893 gun can be found at: www.google.com/patents/US502185 .
In regards to military use, Australian inventor Arthur Bishop utilized the Geneva Mechanism in his tail wheel strut for the Bristol Beaufort Bomber which was in use by the RAF during WWII. The book Driven by Ideas: The Story of Arthur Bishop, a Great Australian Inventor by Clare Brown talks about this in greater detail and includes photos of the gearing used.
makes sense! it doesn't move often, and the locking effect is very strong, just what you want in landing gear!
A clever guy, Arthur. His design was adapted to Adwest power steering for cars. Jags etc. Nice to use.
This is some very specific knowledge!
thanks! after not finding what i was looking for in google, i switched over to periodical databases and found this book.
What periodical databases might that be?
As a protectionist on Christie protectors, we called the intermittent gear the Star Drive lol 😆
Some older gatling guns have a similar mechanism, where the firing pin is in a fixed location and the Geneva mechanism is essentially used to mechanically time when the firing pin mechanism triggers when a loaded barrel is in the proper position.
Just started looking around for a printable version of this mechanism! So glad to have the video from Angus to explain it, but the design is no longer available to download anywhere. Does anyone know of a repo where the old Patreon models can be accessed now? I'm happy to still pay for it.
In the sr-71 blackbird (world's fastest plane) used these to changed film roll for a 2 mile long film roll.
"North American X-15 This aircraft has the current world record for the fastest manned aircraft. Its maximum speed was mach 6.70 (about 7,200 km/h) which it attained on the 3rd of October 1967 thanks to its pilot William J. “Pete” Knight." sr-71 blackbird speed is like 50% of world record... but hey at least u trayed and plenty of people bought that! :P
Bialy I believe that Computerfrenzy probably was referring to airbreating, production aircraft. The "X" on any airframe refers to its experimental status, whereas the "SR" classification referred to an airframe that was was NOT experimental, but was instead a "Strategic Reconnaissance" aircraft. Also, the SR-71 IS the fastest airbreating aircraft in the world, and still holds many speed records until this day. If the new SR-72 ever goes into production, it will likely overtake the SR-71 in every respect, but until that day arrives, the SR-71 still reigns supreme.
The X-15 appears to be more of a manned rocket than a plane, and used as an experimental craft for learning more about applied physics at those kinds of extreme speeds as well as reaching outer space (how does one steer without wind drag over control surfaces, etc..). The SR-71 was, by comparison, a successful production craft. As such, probably fair to call the SR-71 the fastest _production_ airplane (declassified). ;)
D otA Yes. And that is essentially exactly what I said in my post above, in which I explained that the "SR" designation was used for PRODUCTION airframes, and meant "Strategic Reconnaissance" aircraft. Also, a very important distinction is that the X-15, in which the "X," by comparison, stood for "Experimental," was not an air-breathing airframe. It was a manned, small capacity (by comparison to other rockets) rocket ship, whereas the SR-71 was an air-breathing, bat-out-of-Hell go-getter. It's unofficial record of Mach 3.5+, in an evasion maneuver to avoid a bevy of SAMs coming its way over Libya circa 1985 (or was it 1986?) highlighted the peak performance of the Pratt & Whitney J58 engines, which could churn out as much as 150,000 kNs at altitude.
Very similar to the feeder drive mechanism on a 3"50 Twin Anti-Aircraft Naval Gun with "star wheel" manual loaders for each barrel.
me: *sees title*
me: what section of the geneva convention does this break?
The Attrition Rate parameters!
😂😂😂😂
Look up 17:02 Nipples in the convention.
Geneva convention? More like Geneva suggestions
Me: *sees title*
Me: Oh. So it's just a suggestion.
Some years back, I worked on a machine that used a Geneva mechanism. This was an indexing drive that would advance a conveyor one step for each revolution of the main shaft. It was a cammed slot design in a cardioid pattern. As one had two cam followers and the drive plate had the slot.
The machine was an AMF 3-175 bread wrapper.
The Brunswick A and the A-2 pinsetters for bowling used a pair of Geneva cams to shift the moving deck back and forth to allow for the setting of the bowling pins.
The Geneva stop's purpose is not prevention of overwinding a watch mainspring. Actually, the "overwound" spring is a myth. Mainspring breakage is by fatigue. If you intentionally try to overwind a watch, anything in the winding mechanism will break before the spring, probably including that stop! No, the stop was there to eliminate the very weak and the very strong torque of the spring at the beginning and end of winding. Out of 6 possible turns of the barrel, only 4 were used. The spring is "set up" one turn and stopped at the 5th. In this way, the spring is used where it gives the least variation in torque. Earlier watch movements were more sensitive to torque fluctuation, making their rate erratic. Modern mechanical movements have overcome this flaw almost completely by various means, so the stopwork is no longer needed.
What absolute BS!
"No, the stop was there to eliminate the very weak and the very strong torque of the spring at the beginning and end of winding." That's RUBBISH!
The ingenious backward and forward movement of the escapement mechanism (pendulum or wheel)allows for the varying spring force. That's the whole point of it!!!!! That's why spring powered clocks tick loudly when fully wound and softly when running out, but still keep correct time until they stop.
Jesus Christ, I just can't...
Remo Peter overwinding the spring doesn't break it but it does cause them to lose most of their tension. Thats why a lot of old clocks and watches tend to only run for a few hours before needing wound again
And when does a spring break from fatigue? If its overwound agin and agin.
John Somerset - While it's true that a mechanical wristwatch can handle the varying torque from the main spring unwinding, I believe some of the most accurate pocket watches used a fusee to even out the force of the main spring. I am no expert, but I would not call the varying force a feature, but rather an engineering challenge that needs to be dealt with.
The IBM 514 and 519 card punch machines used a geneva drive to advance the card and hold it while the punch was driven into the card.
Terry Judkins Dude, that is OLD school, much like me
lol
Terry Judkins No they don't.
Good fact
they also helped the Nazis categorize Jews and other POWs
Terry Judkins you are thinking of the Geneva STOP
There are Geneva Mechanisms in disposable cameras to keep the user from over winding.
Justin Bellotti Geneva stop*
Penis*
You asked for military usage examples. In the early 1960s the Geneva Drive was
used in anti aircraft missiles to switch specific electronic functions on or off during flight.
The Heidelberg Windmill printing press uses the same principal for driving the paper gripper. In the partbook it's called the "Malthese cross" (part number T 1503).
Great video. I love the extra information.
The great grand daddy of the sprag clutch, lol. The useful duties for the mechanism are low speed, or incredibly low mass parts (the tool caddy indexer, and the projector aperture/sprag respectively). Granted, not incredibly suited to cnc mill operations, but could probably find plenty of use in a pipe factory, or sawmill. As for military use, I humbly submit the breech mechanism of the Hotchkiss auto-cannon, a hand cranked mechanism used by navies world wide about a century and a quarter ago. You will also find them in rotating breeches of artillery, and lever operated "single leg" examples in vertical block sliding mechanisms for guns from Sharpe's buffalo swatters to modern field pieces. The "index detent" of the mechanism is nicely seen in Remington "rolling block" action of the 1860s, which was used by just about everybody at some time up until WW1. I call it "the age of cranks and cams" in arms design because such old ponies as this mechanism held the limelight and got all the girls in that era. Of course, those flashy knee action toggle joints sent them packing before long, lol
A sprag clutch is a type of one way clutch (the other common one is the ramp roller clutch which is commonly (and incorrectly) called a "one way bearing"), it has nothing to do with indexed movement. All it does is allow a shaft to rotate freely in one direction and stops it from rotating in the other. This is useful when you need to apply power to a shaft from an intermittent power source while allowing the shaft to spin freely in one direction when power is not being applied. A common example of this is a bicycle. Also large RC helicopters use them on then main reduction gear. The gear that drives the tail rotor is fixed to the mainshaft of the rotor and the reduction gear between the motor and the mainshaft has a sprag or ramp roller clutch so that if the motor stops it will not act as a brake on the rotor system and it will be possible to auto rotate to a safe landing.
L00ks like that someone thought it up in the "spur of the moment"
I stumbled upon this after falling in a youtube-suggestion black-hole but, holy shit, this is one of the best educational videos I've seen in ages. Detailed explanations and lots of context. Congrats!
Thanks ! Glad you made your way to this vid haha
If you're looking for military application, the rotating-barrel gatling gun spins to reduce heat wear on the barrel and uses a similar mechanism to hold the barrels in place while the bullet is traveling through it, rotating to the next barrel once it's clear.
Instant classic Makers Muse video. Hacksmith dude! Now that's awesome he commented!
2:58 *DUDE!* I could've sworn an ad was going to play 😂
Military use: drum autoloader in a tank
Or machine gun?
The Geneva Mechanism or a variant was used on World War II era tanks. Or at least some German Ones. Early Autocannons and smaller ones with lower rates of fire used a variant called a Geneva gear to time the mechanism for loading rounds.
It was also used in some early Machine Guns to pull a ammo belt.
One odd fact I know and have seen is it usually was lubricated/cooled by the same lubrication system as the vehicle or by the Water Cooling mechanism of the firearm.
Oh and when used they were either insulated by metal or where around louder sounds like an engine or a firearm report.
I repaired film 8mm and 16mm projectors for many years. I saw the Geneva movement only in a few high-end theater-style 16mm projectors. Compared to the more common mechanisms in most other projectors, I found the Geneva mechanism much less prone to wear and problems than the common cam and follower setups in other machines. Geneva was a lot easier to fix too. If you think the Geneva movement is "violent," you should see the cam and follower stuff in other 8mm and 16mm units! Most of those wore out very quickly. Cams, followers, belts and rubber idlers were the bulk of what I had to replace regularly. Sound and lighting (especially xenon arc) were also problem areas.
Seee???!?!? there is more interesting things to print than fidget spinners!!!
Pablo Castaño Boom. Geneva drive fidget spinner.
Apparently even retards get bored, Who would have thought.
hahahhahah, ur right!
A Geneva on each of the three axis for a sloth.
Blasphemy !!!
WTF dude, this is too awesome and intellegant for a dumb toymaker like me. i really enjoyed this one, i gotta say for me this is one of my all time favourite of your vids. Awesome stuff thanks for all your efforts on this. as a watch collector i was geeking out on this!!!
Henry Mayer Svarczkopf intelligent *
villie91 inniitelliganitelegant*
Werner Van Rensburg elephant*
villie91 elegant intelligent elephant?
+Werner Van Rensburg elegant illuminati elephant.?
On older Warships they use the Geneva drive the turning of the guns because they had to set them at a degree.
Today it's used in nuclear bombs. It's all a game of timing in nuclear bomb cuz they have to decide the timing of explosion of first two isotopes.. There this mechanism is used
This drive is also used in old Bell & Howell MailStar inserters. I've had to rebuild a few when servicing these machines.
20 seconds in, I knew this would be an interesting channel. Thanks, man.
Early film projectors? Try almost ALL film projectors.
Can confirm, I've been a Cinema Projection and Sound technician for the last 14 years. These were part of the intermittent sprocket assembly for every 35mm projector I serviced right until they all went to the scrapyard during the digital projection rollout.
Andrew Tetour Ah yes, the mob-like genocidal revolution that still brings me to tears.
eh, I suppose there's an old charm to them. But film cost a fortune, and it's not like too many people would have gone and bought them.
Not quite. Cheaper projectors used a claw to advance the film; not good, could tear the film. Better projectors used this mech. Were always called maltese cross in projector parlance.
Exactly - AFAIK some were made with stepper motors, but I never saw a 35 mm projector with anything but a Maltese cross. They only went out of use with the switch to digital. My engineering student friends were thrilled to see the schematics.
The characteristic sound is not, however, from the mechanism - it's from the two loops of the film, one on each side, to allow the film to run smoothly through the rest of the machinery while being pulled frame by frame through the film gate, and you could hear at a distance if they were the right size. You'd have the same sound (or most of it) with a stepper motor.
Outstanding vid! Extremely interesting and contains tons of accurate, well-conveyed information.
M 60 machine gun The 501 machine gun are line types of the Geneva drive just linearly design of it and is how the fresh ammo is loaded into these machines I was an ordinance NCO through the racks to Sargent Us. Army retired
So...is that what's in candy machines to prevent you from turning the dial the other way and only unlocks when the correct coin is inserted?
As far as military use, I’m an engine mech on legacy c-130’s. The fuel control on a t-56 has a ‘Geneva lock’ a fuel shut off lock/valve. I wonder if it used this design or something similar.
the military use for this drive is on jets with rocket launchers, it's the mechanism that loads the next rocket after one is fired. also used to load cannon fire , torpedos, machine gun fire on 360 degrees swivel gun
Well, as much as we have modern automation with stepper and servo motors, sometimes it’s still best to use the old tech that’s as reliable as clockworks!
"Just as you find in your 3D printer" ... yeah ... we all have some 'o those lying around
Most of us have stepper motors laying around though. CD/DVD/BluRay drives use them.
Me can't afford
E
Costly things.i really wanna buy one
No money though
@@abhinavshukla2202 Save your money, they've come down a lot in price and depending upon what you do with it, you can save/make money with one.
Good explanation .. only slight error was the bit about overwinding a watch.... being a watchmaker myself the overwinding is wrongly identified...what really is happening is the mainspring has been wound up to its tightest and from here something in the watch gearing is preventing the mechanism from "running down" thus preventing the mainspring from returning to its relaxed position
Thanks for the clarification! I would add an annotation if RUclips still allowed for them...
Nice video. That sound you are referring to is made by a loop of film, not the mechanism it is inclosed in oil so it makes little noise.
Back in the '70s EMI Medical used this to drive the rotation of the first whole body (CAT)scanner. It was also used to drive the rotation of British tank turret control. No matter where the turret points the turret gun is locked in position for firing.
Boom! 10/10 educational and interesting content right there. That's a sub
Being Maltese, right away I'm like "That looks like a Maltese cross!"
I suppose when Star Wars shows in theatres there, Han & Chewie drive the *Maltese Falcon?*
Go ahead, roll your eyes. You know it's funny.
@@stevejordan7275 did roll... did laugh ... ; D
In Russian it is called “Maltese cross” or “Maltese mechanism”.
“Geneva Drive” sounds like a blackbox core system of some giant fighting robot
I'm Maltese and i didn't even know about this ! Fantastic vid , learned something new.
I *SO* needed to learn this for my invention! Thank you! You are an EXCELLENT teacher!
You are so welcome!
I had to design this in my engineering class, so difficult
0:48
watch it work
Sqwaush
WOW! This is SO exciting! The simple geneva plastic mechanism works! Now alien invasion can begin!
Hero
Sqwaush i saw this too late
Considerable friction...but an interesting mechanism nonetheless.
The IBM punched card machines of the early computer equipment used the Geneva mechanism to advance the cards through the 12 rows of hole positions of the Hollerith code.
Why? I didn't think they need to stop to be read, since they are actually scanned a full line at a time.
One of the few channels where I actually learn something new on a regular basis.
Thank you!
Gatling guns and revolvers use indexing mechanical drive mechanisms. Machine guns on old propeller planes had a mechanical index interlock that kept bullets from hitting the propeller and causing damage. Belt fed machine guns also use indexing mechanisms to bring each new round into the breach. This is also how chain fed CNC tool indexes work. Had a 100 tool changer on a Nagata horizontal mill at a place I worked several years ago and that chain used exactly the type of drive index you show to bring each tool carrier into position for the crazy fast tool changes. Thousands of applications for this.
there is a type of complication in mechanical watches called "jump hour" where the hour changes over in a window like a digital watch. I think a 12 slotted dwell is what makes this happen, but I'm just guessing.
IVe seen old lock mechanisms for doors that employ an aspect of the Geneva mechanism.. By "old" I mean the mid nineteenth century. Military application? I expect the Gatling Gun used the Geneva and possibly the invention that permitted WWI fighter pilots to have their machine gun mounted between the cockpit and the propellor and timing the precise firing of the bullet to occur in the time frame whereby the ......its way too early in the morning. Thanks for producing this, it was intensely interesting.
A.G. M. The Gatling gun was actually gear driven directly from the crank and ammo was fed in by a high tension spring in the magazine
I have one in my Subaru for some reason
The interrupter gear on aircraft was actually simpler than that: the propeller of an aircraft actually rotates faster than a normal machine gun can reasonably be expected to fire, so there's no point 'interrupting' the gun from firing when a propeller blade is in its path because usually when this occurs the gun is not ready to fire anyway (it's busy loading the next bullet). Instead the gun was modified to only fire once per trigger pull, similar to a semiautomatic rifle. A combination of a cam on the engine and a set of levers coupled to the pilot's firing button pulled the gun's trigger once per rotation of the propeller whilst ever the pilot had the button held down. This resulted in the gun automatically firing at a slightly reduced rate that synced up with the propeller.
instant sub :) awesome video - keep it up man!
Love from India
The 16mm projectors made by Bell and Howell for educational and other uses did not use a Geneva. A swash plate moved the pins that engaged the film in and out of the sprocket holes. The stepping movement of the film into and from the frame aperture was controlled by two pins, one resting on each edge of a spinning constant-diameter "wheel". The variation in the radius of the "wheel" determined the distance required to move the film from frame-to-frame.
It seems the "geneva stop" shown in 1:50 is not only stopped, but blocked from any purposed function, unless someone dismantle it and put the driving wheel back on the axle with the pin positioned for the square notches.
They should use this in vending machines.
Whys that?
::Spock voice:: Fascinating...
Wouldn't something like this work well for a simple Gatling gun type thing? Hrmmm....
example of a military use of this : auto-loader on the M1 Abrams and the Cesar (artillery support cannon) (even if it is mostly manually operated, i personally saw the automatic one, being able to fire 6 shots by minutes) (6 shots to a maximum of 38~km, how awesome is that !?)
similar uses can be seen on some machineguns auto-changing mag !
also, if i'm not mistaken, the 120mm cannon on the AC-130 uses this aswell.
In the clip at 3:20 the drive wheel rotates and stops, what's the point of the geneva mechanism here if the drive wheel isn't continuous?
thank you, i actually never knew that about the geneva mechanism
I very much enjoyed this video! Just thought you should know!
Also i love Chivalry.
Fascinating! I learned so much!
5 stars! Amazed by your enthusiastic and intelligent presentation. This one video took a lot of work! Equally impressed by the intelligent and interesting comments by the audience.
In model railroading, this is a great way to have a turntable (A piece of track that spins on a center pivot, useful for turning locomotives around) stop at exactly the right spot every time. I have an older Atlas brand turntable that does use a Geneva mechanism to ensure the rails on the turntable line up with the tracks leading to the turntable pit. Geneva mechanisms do allow a good deal of precision, and if the rails are misaligned even slightly, the engine derails.
"HAVEN'T YOU HEARD OF NO GENEVA CONVENTION?!"
Interesting video. I would like to share a point of grammar. Every time I do this, someone flames me for being picky. I'm not, really. I'm just autistic. (So everyone, please, save the hate, because there's no hate over here on my side.) The term "added bonus" is redundant. By definition, all bonuses are something that is added. Just say "bonus". All good wishes!
I just 'got' your youtube name... Synonym, Antonym, hence 'Anton Nym' !!!
Though maybe it's just the 'opposite' of what I thought !! haha...
Don't forget ATM machines, PIN numbers, and 10 year anniversaries.
Let's see it in another perspective. Everytime you give an offer, you want to make it more seductive. One way of doing this is to subtly repeat it. As a bonus... wait are you listening? As an added bonus... Come back often for more!
Along with "more unique"
Daym u roasted him
Just show us the damn thing working, then get back in your time-travelling telephone booth and go make that Wyld Stallyns album.
Your right he does remind of neo
@@warrior4christ777 Neo!? Barbarian. Seriously, young people.. 🤣😉
@@sadkingbilly 😂 Heathens indeed!
@someguyontheinternet dotcom and you a heathen. Nobody’s talking about Doctor Who here man. Google “wild stallyns album”. Be excellent to each other!
You have restored my faith in humanity, well maybe just youtube, but it's a start.
The M16 Rifle uses a similar mechanism for timing, within the trigger assembly. On newer models, where there is a "burst" function instead of fully automatic fire, (The weapon shoots 3 bullets for every trigger press), the device is in the "stop" configuration with a total of 6 dwells. Research the trigger mechanism of the lower receiver of the M16A1 and M16A2 to see the difference.
His intro music is literally just the robot music from sponge bob XD XD. Don’t believe me? Just listen.
+Fogz Gamez xD it's pretty similar now you mention it lol
What's the CATCH
GET IT???
*GET IT!??!?!?!*
Had to dwell on it...
That hurt.
Who cares about the military use? Tell me the sex application for the device.
Ivan Mazeppa auto circumcision
Convert the rotational motion into linear motion, you now have something that thrusts in and out very quickly with a pause between.
Why did I think of this I'll never know
genital mutilation isn't sex
Attach rotational-to-linear motion converter to driven wheel. Affix phallic object. Insert into driven person. Spin.
Bonus points for only using one lubricant in the whole contraption.
+viperfan7 (a) it's obvious (b) I don't think that's the exact form of motion you want; rapid, sharp thrusts don't seem pleasant, you want a smooth acceleration/deceleration to prevent injury.
I assume.
We used one in aircraft navigation equipment, the antenna had to switch wave guides and used a Geneva drive. First thing we did troubleshooting the aircraft for problems, put our ear to the cargo bay and listen for the "clack" of the Geneva gear.
The Hypocycloid and epicycloid mechanisms are probably the master categories of these mechanisms and gear sets. There are also the Harmonic Drive, the Planetary Gears, the .Ravigneaux planetary gearset, NuVinci Continuously Variable Transmissions, Continuosly variable transmissions, the lock-up torque converters, the Koenigsegg Direct Drive (KDD) system, etc. Ever sharpen a pencil with the old wall mounted pencil sharpener? Take a look at the gearing system! How does a revolver revolve one cylinder at a time?
I understood some of these words
Yeah! But I think "outdated" is inappropriate, because there is no reason to imply that this mechanism is outdated. It works, and it would be stupid to forget that :-(
It does work well and is mechanically reliable at that. If you're design has no concern for driveshaft vibration, wear/backlash and acceleration, the geneva mechanism is a good choice for a full mechanical design.
I'm certain this guy has an underground meth lab
Why!
well, he's probably capable and smart enough to make one correctly if so inclined.
Shut up you snitch!!!!!
It is better to remain silent ... and be thought a fool,
than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
i'm certain your a meth head, you got meth mouth
Put a bearing on the pin, problem solved
That's not where the biggest source of friction comes from. To keep the driven wheel indexed when it's not rotating, the curved concave outer faces rub against a similarly curved convex surface on the drive wheel. If you go to 0:53 and 1:18 in the video, the illustrations quite clearly show the large bearing faces that are engaged during the time the indexing pin is out of contact with the driven wheel. Per revolution, those large bearing surfaces stay in contact longer than than the indexing pin does.
That curved locking surface on the drive wheel is not a full circle, otherwise the driven wheel would never be able to unlock to index to the next position. Because of that, there's no simple way to replace either of those surfaces with a bearing. Not only would you need to put a bearing on the index pin, you'd need at least four bearings (probably more) along the curved surface of the drive wheel in order to ensure adequate support to prevent the driven wheel from turning prematurely. That would significantly increase the complexity and bulk of the mechanism.
Great presentation and visuals. RUclips at it's best and most educational.
Could you use this on a revolver to get the cylinder to rotate and line up the rounds inside the barrel? There'd have to be some kind of ratcheting mechanism involved as well.