According to The Guardian, there was an instance where a user attempted to confirm receipt of cash. Each time the user pressed 'enter' on the frozen screen, the record would update. I'm inclined to think this might not be a software bug, but rather a hardware or network error. The user should have checked the transaction. One would wonder if anyone found it odd that the same transaction could be listed within a few minutes. Did anyone bother to verify the data? The news reports that the cash was less than expected, but were there more stamps than indicated in the data? If so, someone should have noticed that they were not sold. Has Fujitsu admitted to the fault, or is it a result of the post office's management error? The news of this issue has spread worldwide, tarnishing Fujitsu's reputation. If the fault lies more with the post office than with Fujitsu, there's a potential risk of legal action against the post office by Fujitsu. It's not uncommon for users to operate systems in ways engineers could not predict, and in this case, the post office had to inform Fujitsu after three staff members were accused. While it might be Fujitsu's fault, the involvement of 700 people in the post office and court errors raises questions about the true source of the problem.
The whole board of the post office at that time should face criminal charges for knowingly sending innocent people to prison. And ruining all those peoples lives. They are disgusting people.
@@phloxie actually, Brian is correct. It is "they metaphorically have blood on their hands", not "they literally do". If they literally do, they would have actual physical blood on their actual physical hands. They don't. It's metaphorical. Correcting someone's English does not automatically mean they are disagreeing with the rest of that person's statement, nor that they are protecting the guilty. Can't believe I even have to explain that. 😒🙄
What fascinates me is it has taken a TV Drama to bring a 20 year old scandal to a head! What that really means is the British public need to have " pictures drawn" for them to understand a situation? That is a frightening scenario, "Nil illegitimus et carborundum"!
Or our media was suspiciously quiet about the whole thing. It was only really reported in local newspapers. Wouldn't really blame people for not being aware of it before the ITV drama. Politicians were almost definitely aware of it.
The gov wanted to sell POL as a profitable business. Any MP/politician/reporter that made a fuss would have been heavily leaned on to keep quiet. It must have taken a lot of guts for any MP to stand up in parliament and pour light on this scandal knowing their career would suffer. The gov will say 'look over there at Fuj (ICL) and POL - don't look at us!'. Of course, the tax payer will pick up the bill in any case. Fuj/ICL has many large gov contracts, we could fine them but they will probably get the money back from inflated future gov contracts.
You mean to tell me that giving a company the full legal ability to screw over its employees with no government oversight would lead to exactly that? Color me shocked.
@@danny117fc Not the full government. The problem is that the Post Office is also separate to the government itself, so the only ones that have any knowledge of the issues are the ones given the portfolio for it. However, they have then been getting kickbacks for it all, cant say they havent, and have kept quiet. The Post Office NEVER should have had the power to prosecute and investigate like they have had. That should have ALWAYS been left to Scotland Yard to do. People need to STOP blaming the full government for everything involved in anything that happens that they have a hand into, its why there is the inquiry into it all. Now that Fujitsu have been summoned to appear before the House of Commons, which happens this next week as part of the inquiry, then you can bet anything once Fujitsu realize that it is all because of issues within their systems that compensation will be fully paid by them. Japanese companies tend to take things like this quite seriously and if its found that someone within their corporation knew all this trouble was happening and did nothing the government there is going to demand they deal with it both in compensation, and resignations.
Glad you highlighted this case and explained it in such clear terms. Absolutely shocking what happened to the victims but almost as much as how it has been ignored by the UK media for so long. When this all started making international news headlines in early January I was amazed that search results about scandal went back little further than the ITV programme itself, and none explained it with any succinctness. How has this been ignored by the UK media for so long?
Beacause like with any other crime committed by the Government or a Government affiliated organisation, it is all kept hush hush. Mainstream media have had millions from the Government over the last 4 years, so they are going to push or hide anything they are told to.
As someone not involved, and not in the UK, it seems only fitting that the recompense should be as follows: 1. Return them to the financial position that they would have now been in, which means x-number of years of salary, cost reimbursement, children's education fees that were unable to be paid, for education that was unable to be attended. All plus interest. 2. Incarceration recompense at a rate of £1 million per 365 days. 3. A large payment for the theft of the decade or so of devastation of quality of life. Probably half a million pounds minimum.
This happened 20 years ago. The ONLY reason the PO decided to apologise NOW and why Paula Vennells stepped down is because of the press the ITV programme brought! They weren’t remorseful at the time were they! That should be enough to tell you exactly what kind of people they are.
All involved should be compensated for what has happened. I know that will mean more taxpayers money( again) but the amount the government wastes on a daily basis ( high speed rail link) the compensation will be miniscule in comparison plus the post office should be stripped of its special powers to prosecute and be forced to use the police and CPS like everyone else.
I honestly didn't realise the extent of the Post Office Horizon deceit. It completely went over my head. What the Post Office did to these people is dispicable. I will NEVER buy insurance, have an account or anything from the Post Office that I can get somewhere else. Absolutely disgusting, acting like the mafia or an extortion racket.
@TheRealCMTrains bea1365 didn't say anything about boycotting the post office, only said they wouldn't buy insurance, etc, from them. I don't buy anything through them except postage stamps and using their postal system when buying something online or sending seasonal/birthday cards. The whole scandal is unforgivable and the government knew it was happening but chose to do nothing. Everyone involved (NOT the sub postmasters/mistresses) should pay a very heavy price - a few years behind bars would be a good start.
So how do judges send people to jail when there’s no evidence of wrongdoing? I’m a Canadian and I genuinely don’t understand how the courts work in the UK Don’t they need to prove these people acted criminally?
It's UK......and. no, barely anything works except lying snc stealing. The PPE scandal is as bad. Contracts given to friends who had access via 'vip Lanes". The country is rotten.
Some of the courts found them not guilty, some of the postmasters plead not guilty in the early stages before more people came forward and they were found Guilty, some were sentenced to jail and some ordered to pay back all the money. Jo Hamilton the women who you see get told she shouldn't have gone to court plead Guilty to avoid Jail. If the Post Office didn't get what it wanted it took them back to court. Eventually more people came forward and The Courts then realised there was no evidence to prosecute by this time, the Government and Second Sight were moving in and this is when the Courts started to not say the software was faulty but questioned it's robustness. Usually in the UK if you murder someone say and someone says they saw you do it you will be arrested by the Police, taken to custody and questioned, you could then be charged by the Police, they then gather evidence to take you to court. You have your date at the Crown Court and at Court it is Innocent til proven Guilty. So then the Court and Jury members of the Public are then looking at evidence and statements. Let's say there was no evidence to say you murdered someone even if you did you could be let off if there isn't evidence, in theory there is evidence so you are guilty. If you haven't done it and rightfully so there is no evidence like CCTV, Witnesses, Prints like Shoe Prints, Finger Prints you are rightfully found not guilty. The Post Office doesn't need to take the people to the Police, at the Start of the Drama the Police are called as Alan Bates refuses to back down to the Post Office the Police then say this isn't a criminal matter and go. The Post Office didn't need to get them to arrest Alan Bates the Police would then examine evidence ie Mr Bates Bank Account, CCTV of the Shop, Statements and examine his computer and they find no evidence or if he had done it they would they then would either let him off if he wasn't guilty or charge him then the Court would see that evidence. The Post Office can basically remove the Police if it believes your stealing is is taking you to court. As there was no evidence during any of thesr trails this is unlawful. Alan Bates never signed his account sheets of because he believed the system was broken. Jo Hamilton who was naive did as she was obliged to like Alan by the Post Office. That is the most evidence they had was that Jo had signed the logs. But that doesn't class as Meaningful. Going back to the Murder scenario. I could have dropped a glove near to where the person is dead. If a member of the public says that was there before the body that evidence is Meaningless as I dropped a glove but that alone isn't enough. If the Glove had blood on or was found to have been involved it is a Meaningful evidence as it would have the DNA of whoever was wearing it which means they were involved. So basically the Post Office pressed ahead and at the time people like Jo plead not guilty to Fraud or Theft but to Plead Guilty to False Accouting. Her lawyer would justify this to her for saying that False Accounting was the way to keep her out of jail. The Post Office questioned under caution but she said No comment so again there was no evidence there. So the Post Office basically had the courts believe it wasn't the system and took these people to court skipping the Police. Had the Police been involved all these people would have been let off and then could take them to court the Post Office for unfair dismissal and False allegations
@Mimi-cq4bg Basically there was 'evidence' of the money going missing (because the faulty computer system changed the numbers) that the sub-postmasters were responsible for, the post office also hid any evidence of it being any fault of the post office (them claiming 'they were the only one with money missing' was a lie they said to victims for example) so it looked like the people stole money they didn't.
thank you for bringing this case up to my attention. after hearing this, to learn that some people ended their own lives is just heartbreaking. @@WatchMojoUK
We had over 900 wrongful convictions. We need to see some just convictions for perverting the course of justice, perjury, and conspiracy to defraud sub-postmasters
They are being looked into over the potential fraud arising from their actions, and this is being done by the actual police like it always should have been.
The police generally weren’t the ones who did the chasing or prosecuting though, that was part of the point. The post office has the right to bring its own prosecutions and it paid investigators it hired bonuses for successful prosecutions.
It is not the Post Office we should be blaming but those who knew that there was a real problem and either lied or did nothing about it. Senior management are to blame and it is they who should be investigated by the police and if thought culpable, they should be prosecuted. Full Stop!
I worked for an independent company on the counter when Horizon was implemented , the first day I was in the office until 11pm because they couldn’t even get that right, I worked my way up to manage a few and even back then we tried to tell the PO that it was a disaster waiting to happen, The PO kept saying it wasn’t the horizon making the mistakes it was the people using it, We said if you can’t prove the system is right then you can’t prove the people are wrong, They where adamant they where right even when we proved them wrong, I said it then and I say it now it was corrupt from the start. When we balanced by hand the differences where never like that, so if there was no money trail how come the PO can say there was losses there wasn’t any evidence to say the individual post office had taken that money in but all of a sudden a machine tells you it’s has, Sorry but not a chance. To make it worse the helplines where manned by people that had never stepped into a post office in there lives, that was one argument I had often how can you help if you don’t even understand what I’m talking about?
I second @zie9171 to say that you definitely should offer your evidence to the Inquiry ... it's just the sort of detail that Sir Wyn Williams would like to hear !
systemic corruption and malpractice. it's a disgrace. I'm from NZ and I have just heard about this saga this week because I heard a radio news brief on the inquiry. i looked it up and have been appalled at what has happened.
As a stamp collector for many years, I stopped buying and collecting British stamps issued by the PO as a token of my support to the sub postmasters who was unfairly treated by the PO .
This is the type of behaviour we’ve come to expect from the police, but the post office? Wow. If justice doesn’t involve individual accountability and criminal action, then it’s not justice. Money back and a quashed conviction doesn’t equate to a life destroyed.
This just proves that absolutely anyone can be labelled as a criminal and receive any and all punishments as a result if everything can be manipulated to paint you as the bad guy
Never mind her CBE, how about Paula Vennells gives back her £3 million bonus for a start? Then prosecutions for perjury for all those who lied in court, and whatever is possible regarding theft and assault for taking money off Sub Postmasters that they didn't owe, for destroying their lives and livelihoods, and depriving some of them of their liberty. How about actual consequences as opposed to a bit of embarrassment?
[ The Sub Postmaster final payment - I have been harassed, abused and assaulted and threatened with extermination by my former landlord - the court awarded me £5,999.41 from which the court for all it's pain, deducted £2,922.33, - whereas my solicitor receives £26,050.56 for legal representation in court - that was not defended by the other side.
I hear that the Post Office look to prosecute Fujitsu! A case of passing the buck and symptomatic of the blame culture rampant in UK! Fujitsu designed the software based on information provided by the Post Office; clearly the information was faulty and the Post Office failed to undertake due diligence. So the buck stops with the Post Office, which, sad to say, is still the dinosaur that it was when I worked for it over 30 years ago; the managerial structure of the Post Office was based on length of service and seniority, not on ability, so most managers were incompetent loons who just held highly paid sinecures... Nothing appears to have changed; the Post Office ought to be fully privatised so that managers are appointed, as they are in private companies, on ability alone.
Really? Did you ever work in the Rem Unit at Brighton Main Post Office in the 1980s - it was staffed mainly by hirsute women: humping all those heavy coin bags around must have boosted their testosterone levels!
@@FateBoostThe UN ordered no more paper from 2025. Finding excuses to abolish the post office will assist in that. The actual criminals in control and their obedient servants should have proceeds of crime upon all they and their families own until honest auditors work out what was right and just for them to be paid. Major shareholders also. Were businesses such as Blackrock and Vanguard invested?
Reminds me of the robodebt scandal in Australia, although that one was way more recent and the perpetrators are still riding high in Australian politics and public service.
It is not 'compensation' the victims are entitled to, it is reparation, plus full responsibility for this criminal action, by those who intimidated and in many cases caused the deaths of those innocent people, to be enacted against the institutions that implemented this diabolical scandal.
The postmasters must be reimbursed and not the pittance they have been offered. Like they always say, the only winners here were the Lawyers with their fees. The British Government is held responsible and as such, start writing million pound reimbursements to each postmaster effected and gaol all the corrupt executives involved.
They seem to have known they could exploit the fact that individual subpostmasters were liable for any shortfall. Never wonder why workers want a union -they could not have hidden the problem so easily or for so long.
"and the victims get the justice they deserve.".. is only half of it; ".. and the perpetrators are bourght to justice in accorance with their callous actions".. may have completed it.
I had listened to the BBC radio expose of this scandal prior to the drama. It’s amazing that Ms Vennells accepted her honour knowing what was happening and again that it was some time after the drama that she begrudgingly- in my opinion, handed it back.
Top job bonuses should be paid back to us the tax payers who are picking up the money for the enquiry. Politicians, why didn’t you pursue this scandal years ages when you knew what was happening? You need to be held accountable for your apathy.
My thoughts are who the hell would want to be a postmaster with an employer like the post office? The postmasters and postmistresses are a national asset - and this is how they were treated.
Also, some more heads need to roll before this is over. The government in 1999 (Labour) chose the Horizon computer system over all others not because it was the best option, but because it was the cheapest.
Thats how it works in most countries, the company that can offer the cheapest service often wins. Might not be the best, but its cheap😂😂. I worked for a company that installed roadside wildlife fencing. Was not the best but it was cheap, paid with taxes ofc😂
Send the CEOS to jail. If they cry ‘I’m innocent it’s not my fault etc etc’ then I would say ‘how many 100s cried they were innocent and nothing happened’ ppl took their own life’s over this shite. It’s disgusting. It’s 1 of the reasons I hate technology. Rip to the VICTIMS who took their own life’s at no fault of their own. Give them all compensation NOW! It won’t make things right at all but if hitting them where it hurts most, their pocket, then sue em for all they’ve got! Everyone effected by this, I wish u all the best and every happiness and hopefully an amazing comfortable retirement on a shit load of money your owed! Take care everyone xxx
People did this. Bad awful evil horrible people. Not “technology” that you supposedly hate lol. (As you write that in a comment on a RUclips video that you are able to access through the internet or 5G (or similar) coverage- not to mention watching on one of your devices etc etc all brought to you by….. technology. It can be just as easily manipulated for the good of your comment as the evil of the entire Post Office scandal. 🤷🏻♀️ (ps- otherwise I wholeheartedly agree with you on everything else you said!!!!!! ❤️❤️)
@@lovelyjanuary that’s a very good point lol. Yes it’s the evil ppl behind the technology that’s to blame. I binged watched the itv programme yesterday so I’m more up to date on everything that happened now lol. Such a tragic story for all involved. Thanks for the comment take care lv 😊 xxx
The ceos should queue up outside their nearest prison after donating all their ill gotten gains to the sub post masters. Then ask to be let in the prison and to be kept there for a minimum of 20+years.
Sadly this kind of behaviour isn’t it uncommon for government companies. There’s a huge culture of protecting the reputation of the business and individuals. We always say that the shit rolls downhill until it hits someone who cant sidestep it.
It's not only the Post Office who shafted the sub-postmasters. The wonderful legal team charged them £47,000,000 for services rendered. What is the matter with people?
Absolutely disgraceful. Sending innocent people who worked hard to prison over a faulty computer system they were warned about. Finally some good decision making from the government. Victims should be compensated large sums of £. Take it from the illegal immigrant budget!!!
Why? Because as a nation we shouldnt be spending the amount of money we are, housing people who are here illegally. Nobody said it was their fault. You're right about the pension/bonus bit though, it just wont be enough to cover it@@EdDueim
@@jdys8525 Very wealthy and privileged people have committed a massive injustice and your first thought is that the poorest and most vulnerable should be penalised for it. An interesting perspective. How about the cost of cleaning up the raw sewage dumped into our waterways and on our coasts? Maybe the homeless or disability budgets should pay for that. We get it; you hate migrants. But do you have to drag it in to every topic?
I dont even know where to begin with that. Why suggest such ridiculous scenarios? Most likely you are just seeking an argument, to which I decline to engage. We? You speak for others?? Wow.. I don't 'hate' anybody btw, there's enough of that in the world as it is. Now if you dont mind @@EdDueim
What the hell happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? They had no evidence that they had stole the money, no evidence to show where the stolen money was and yet convictions were being laid out to these people on the simple basis "the computer is always right, i have rang up and asked the company we paid a billion pounds for a product is it good or not and they said it is solid!"
Must be a scam between individuals in Fujitsu & Post Office accountants back in the day. No record of where the money went after it was paid or put into the PO reserve account??!!! We now know Fujitsu employees could alter the figures when the PO said they couldn’t. Or has the system been hacked by someone in Fujitsu or a foreign player eg Russia?
Punishing an organisation does nothing. Punishing living individuals does, it scares the daylights out of them, but it never happens when it relates to government.
If this happen in China or Russia we would of been told look how bad they are Whole families need fair compensation And the people who covered it up need to go to prison for a long time at very least..
Unless the Sub Post Masters get real compensation and the Post Office exces , Vennells and many others are prosecuted/jailed there won’t be any real justice.
Ive watched many of the inquiry interviews. Its a case of “cant remember” or “somebody eases fault”. At best, many of the investigators involved were badly trained, and/or incompetent. At worst, the word evil comes to mind! I am thinking that this issue is a big wake-up call to big organisations and government departments to deal with people honestly, or face the consequences.
So many lives have been destroyed because of this... and it STILL hasn't been resolved! Watching this was hard but boy, has it made an impact! The miscarriage of justice has stunned and appalled the nation in a way never seen before!!! Let's give these poor innocent people the justice they deserve!!!
It's hard not to get outraged by this and feel utmost compassion for the poor sub postmasters - Shame that a TV drama had to make it news, but needs must. The post office should have realised that something was wrong - the amount of people that complaining..surely someone must have heard the alarm bells ringing ...Shame on them ( and Fujitsu )
Via private prosecution act. Unlike countries like the US, Common Law is an open avenue for anyone, private or public, similar to civil case, The UK law allow private individual and organisation to prosecute someone. While the same power would only be allowed by the DA and Federal Prosecutor in the US, most of these are summary crime like trespassing or larceny, but evidently you can also prosecute fraud privately in a crown court...
Sadly the Post Office can take you to court directly skipping the Police. Had the Police been involved Jo, Lee and many others wouldn't have been at Court as the Police would have found no evidence to suggest either of them were stealing. So the Police couldn't do anything, fall its flaws the Police here aren't to blame and they do Try and get people convicted with evidence or if your framed let off. The Post Office is entirely to blame. The Courts then started to realise they were seeing more and more cases or people going to them and then started to question the Post Office. As some people plead Guilty to keep out of jail they were ordered to pay the money back. Some who plead Not Guilty were still ordered to pay back and sometimes the Post Office would argue that the computer wasn't to blame telling everyone your the only one and then the Court would use that. The only people who had the power to stop it was the Post Office
So I just saw an article about the Post Office Scandal today. Watched the CEO cry and cry and say she didn't know anything. It seemed believable. It was the first I'd heard of this scandal. Had no idea, never heard of it til today. (I live in America.) So I looked for a summary of what happened. I was shocked to learn this has been ongoing since the fucking 1990's; that's insane! This was the only summary video I could find that was less than an hour long! I'm only halfway through this video and already it's clear that the CEO and the board absolutely MUST be held accountable. Innocent people WERE IMPRISONED over this?!? That is beyond unacceptable. I can't believe this is the first I'm heading about this. Thirty years of bullshit, and this scandal is still ongoing... Thirty years later, and people still don't have justice. How horrifying. My heart is with all the victims of this scandal. I hope you all get justice soon.
According to The Guardian, there was an instance where a user attempted to confirm receipt of cash. Each time the user pressed 'enter' on the frozen screen, the record would update. I'm inclined to think this might not be a software bug, but rather a hardware or network error. The user should have checked the transaction. One would wonder if anyone found it odd that the same transaction could be listed within a few minutes. Did anyone bother to verify the data? The news reports that the cash was less than expected, but were there more stamps than indicated in the data? If so, someone should have noticed that they were not sold. Has Fujitsu admitted to the fault, or is it a result of the post office's management error? The news of this issue has spread worldwide, tarnishing Fujitsu's reputation. If the fault lies more with the post office than with Fujitsu, there's a potential risk of legal action against the post office by Fujitsu. It's not uncommon for users to operate systems in ways engineers could not predict, and in this case, the post office had to inform Fujitsu after three staff members were accused. While it might be Fujitsu's fault, the involvement of 700 people in the post office and court errors raises questions about the true source of the problem.
Post office has been going down hill for at least one or two decades. The culture is corrupted from inside. It is largely due to the special status and rights it has enjoyed. This kind of software errors could have been reproduced and confirmed in lab easily under stress test. It needs to be reformed.
For more TURBULANT British News check out this...
10 TV Shows with the Most Scandals
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Turbulent*
According to The Guardian, there was an instance where a user attempted to confirm receipt of cash. Each time the user pressed 'enter' on the frozen screen, the record would update. I'm inclined to think this might not be a software bug, but rather a hardware or network error. The user should have checked the transaction.
One would wonder if anyone found it odd that the same transaction could be listed within a few minutes. Did anyone bother to verify the data?
The news reports that the cash was less than expected, but were there more stamps than indicated in the data? If so, someone should have noticed that they were not sold.
Has Fujitsu admitted to the fault, or is it a result of the post office's management error? The news of this issue has spread worldwide, tarnishing Fujitsu's reputation. If the fault lies more with the post office than with Fujitsu, there's a potential risk of legal action against the post office by Fujitsu.
It's not uncommon for users to operate systems in ways engineers could not predict, and in this case, the post office had to inform Fujitsu after three staff members were accused. While it might be Fujitsu's fault, the involvement of 700 people in the post office and court errors raises questions about the true source of the problem.
i feel bad for the subpostmasters as well as anyone who has been affected by this. so tragic.
12:43
The whole board of the post office at that time should face criminal charges for knowingly sending innocent people to prison. And ruining all those peoples lives. They are disgusting people.
Post office ceos need to go to prison
I agree because I am a qualified lesbian
And all politicians do too
For a thousand years
Truly unforgivable
After those CEOs get flogged in town squares across the nation.
Some people committed suicide over this, they literally have blood on their hands. They ruined so many people’s lives. They must be prosecuted.
Metaphorically, not literally.
Fuck, that is gut-wrenching.
@@phloxie actually, Brian is correct. It is "they metaphorically have blood on their hands", not "they literally do". If they literally do, they would have actual physical blood on their actual physical hands. They don't. It's metaphorical.
Correcting someone's English does not automatically mean they are disagreeing with the rest of that person's statement, nor that they are protecting the guilty.
Can't believe I even have to explain that. 😒🙄
What fascinates me is it has taken a TV Drama to bring a 20 year old scandal to a head! What that really means is the British public need to have " pictures drawn" for them to understand a situation? That is a frightening scenario, "Nil illegitimus et carborundum"!
Or our media was suspiciously quiet about the whole thing. It was only really reported in local newspapers. Wouldn't really blame people for not being aware of it before the ITV drama. Politicians were almost definitely aware of it.
All hidden by the media, as always when it comes to the crimes of a Government affiliated organisation.
The gov wanted to sell POL as a profitable business. Any MP/politician/reporter that made a fuss would have been heavily leaned on to keep quiet. It must have taken a lot of guts for any MP to stand up in parliament and pour light on this scandal knowing their career would suffer. The gov will say 'look over there at Fuj (ICL) and POL - don't look at us!'. Of course, the tax payer will pick up the bill in any case. Fuj/ICL has many large gov contracts, we could fine them but they will probably get the money back from inflated future gov contracts.
Nil illegitimus et carborundum = don't let the bastards grind you down (if there is anyone who doesn't know)
And an election year
You mean to tell me that giving a company the full legal ability to screw over its employees with no government oversight would lead to exactly that?
Color me shocked.
No the government have been overseeing too... That's why its so badly run
@@danny117fc Not the full government. The problem is that the Post Office is also separate to the government itself, so the only ones that have any knowledge of the issues are the ones given the portfolio for it. However, they have then been getting kickbacks for it all, cant say they havent, and have kept quiet. The Post Office NEVER should have had the power to prosecute and investigate like they have had. That should have ALWAYS been left to Scotland Yard to do.
People need to STOP blaming the full government for everything involved in anything that happens that they have a hand into, its why there is the inquiry into it all. Now that Fujitsu have been summoned to appear before the House of Commons, which happens this next week as part of the inquiry, then you can bet anything once Fujitsu realize that it is all because of issues within their systems that compensation will be fully paid by them. Japanese companies tend to take things like this quite seriously and if its found that someone within their corporation knew all this trouble was happening and did nothing the government there is going to demand they deal with it both in compensation, and resignations.
Interesting question at the moment, no?
👏👏👏
Many of the senior executives both past and present should be sent to jail not given pay rises.
Glad you highlighted this case and explained it in such clear terms. Absolutely shocking what happened to the victims but almost as much as how it has been ignored by the UK media for so long.
When this all started making international news headlines in early January I was amazed that search results about scandal went back little further than the ITV programme itself, and none explained it with any succinctness.
How has this been ignored by the UK media for so long?
Beacause like with any other crime committed by the Government or a Government affiliated organisation, it is all kept hush hush. Mainstream media have had millions from the Government over the last 4 years, so they are going to push or hide anything they are told to.
and i never heard about this case until now.
As someone not involved, and not in the UK, it seems only fitting that the recompense should be as follows:
1. Return them to the financial position that they would have now been in, which means x-number of years of salary, cost reimbursement, children's education fees that were unable to be paid, for education that was unable to be attended. All plus interest.
2. Incarceration recompense at a rate of £1 million per 365 days.
3. A large payment for the theft of the decade or so of devastation of quality of life. Probably half a million pounds minimum.
This happened 20 years ago. The ONLY reason the PO decided to apologise NOW and why Paula Vennells stepped down is because of the press the ITV programme brought! They weren’t remorseful at the time were they! That should be enough to tell you exactly what kind of people they are.
This cow should be locked up in prison,stripped of her titles, assets, pension rights and civil rights for the rest of her life.
All involved should be compensated for what has happened. I know that will mean more taxpayers money( again) but the amount the government wastes on a daily basis ( high speed rail link) the compensation will be miniscule in comparison plus the post office should be stripped of its special powers to prosecute and be forced to use the police and CPS like everyone else.
I am a qualified lesbian
High speed rail link but neglecting local rail
@@ijustdidahugeshitWeird flex but ok
@@Joeh2o I am a woman
Instead of funding proxy wars they could be using that money to compensate these people who have had their lives destroyed.
I honestly didn't realise the extent of the Post Office Horizon deceit. It completely went over my head. What the Post Office did to these people is dispicable. I will NEVER buy insurance, have an account or anything from the Post Office that I can get somewhere else. Absolutely disgusting, acting like the mafia or an extortion racket.
Please dont boycott the Post Office. It’s the Subpostmasters that suffer because of it.
@TheRealCMTrains bea1365 didn't say anything about boycotting the post office, only said they wouldn't buy insurance, etc, from them. I don't buy anything through them except postage stamps and using their postal system when buying something online or sending seasonal/birthday cards. The whole scandal is unforgivable and the government knew it was happening but chose to do nothing. Everyone involved (NOT the sub postmasters/mistresses) should pay a very heavy price - a few years behind bars would be a good start.
This is what privatization gets you.
@TheRealCMTrains
Here's hoping the Subpostmasters get another job before they also get screw over by the post office.
@@guessundheit6494 It is 100% owned by the government, they are the sole owner of Post Office Limited, it is not really privatised.
Post Office CEOs should go to prison.
So how do judges send people to jail when there’s no evidence of wrongdoing? I’m a Canadian and I genuinely don’t understand how the courts work in the UK
Don’t they need to prove these people acted criminally?
It's UK......and. no, barely anything works except lying snc stealing. The PPE scandal is as bad. Contracts given to friends who had access via 'vip Lanes". The country is rotten.
The Post Office filed lies in Court to support the charges.. aka perjury
Some of the courts found them not guilty, some of the postmasters plead not guilty in the early stages before more people came forward and they were found Guilty, some were sentenced to jail and some ordered to pay back all the money. Jo Hamilton the women who you see get told she shouldn't have gone to court plead Guilty to avoid Jail. If the Post Office didn't get what it wanted it took them back to court. Eventually more people came forward and The Courts then realised there was no evidence to prosecute by this time, the Government and Second Sight were moving in and this is when the Courts started to not say the software was faulty but questioned it's robustness. Usually in the UK if you murder someone say and someone says they saw you do it you will be arrested by the Police, taken to custody and questioned, you could then be charged by the Police, they then gather evidence to take you to court. You have your date at the Crown Court and at Court it is Innocent til proven Guilty. So then the Court and Jury members of the Public are then looking at evidence and statements. Let's say there was no evidence to say you murdered someone even if you did you could be let off if there isn't evidence, in theory there is evidence so you are guilty. If you haven't done it and rightfully so there is no evidence like CCTV, Witnesses, Prints like Shoe Prints, Finger Prints you are rightfully found not guilty. The Post Office doesn't need to take the people to the Police, at the Start of the Drama the Police are called as Alan Bates refuses to back down to the Post Office the Police then say this isn't a criminal matter and go. The Post Office didn't need to get them to arrest Alan Bates the Police would then examine evidence ie Mr Bates Bank Account, CCTV of the Shop, Statements and examine his computer and they find no evidence or if he had done it they would they then would either let him off if he wasn't guilty or charge him then the Court would see that evidence. The Post Office can basically remove the Police if it believes your stealing is is taking you to court. As there was no evidence during any of thesr trails this is unlawful. Alan Bates never signed his account sheets of because he believed the system was broken. Jo Hamilton who was naive did as she was obliged to like Alan by the Post Office. That is the most evidence they had was that Jo had signed the logs. But that doesn't class as Meaningful. Going back to the Murder scenario. I could have dropped a glove near to where the person is dead. If a member of the public says that was there before the body that evidence is Meaningless as I dropped a glove but that alone isn't enough. If the Glove had blood on or was found to have been involved it is a Meaningful evidence as it would have the DNA of whoever was wearing it which means they were involved. So basically the Post Office pressed ahead and at the time people like Jo plead not guilty to Fraud or Theft but to Plead Guilty to False Accouting. Her lawyer would justify this to her for saying that False Accounting was the way to keep her out of jail. The Post Office questioned under caution but she said No comment so again there was no evidence there. So the Post Office basically had the courts believe it wasn't the system and took these people to court skipping the Police. Had the Police been involved all these people would have been let off and then could take them to court the Post Office for unfair dismissal and False allegations
@Mimi....well that's it, courts barely work unless you're an immigrant, illegal or whatever...
@Mimi-cq4bg
Basically there was 'evidence' of the money going missing (because the faulty computer system changed the numbers) that the sub-postmasters were responsible for, the post office also hid any evidence of it being any fault of the post office (them claiming 'they were the only one with money missing' was a lie they said to victims for example) so it looked like the people stole money they didn't.
Thanks for this Mojo. Have been hearing a lot about this but not heard it explained.
You're welcome!
thank you for bringing this case up to my attention. after hearing this, to learn that some people ended their own lives is just heartbreaking. @@WatchMojoUK
We had over 900 wrongful convictions. We need to see some just convictions for perverting the course of justice, perjury, and conspiracy to defraud sub-postmasters
I would give you 900 likes if I could for your comment
I truly hope the police spend as much time on finding the liars in the Post Office as they have on chasing and prosecuting people for thought crimes..
They are being looked into over the potential fraud arising from their actions, and this is being done by the actual police like it always should have been.
The police generally weren’t the ones who did the chasing or prosecuting though, that was part of the point. The post office has the right to bring its own prosecutions and it paid investigators it hired bonuses for successful prosecutions.
It is not the Post Office we should be blaming but those who knew that there was a real problem and either lied or did nothing about it. Senior management are to blame and it is they who should be investigated by the police and if thought culpable, they should be prosecuted. Full Stop!
So...The Post Office...
Fujitsu people ...... Post Office people ..... and Civil Servants overseeing POL !
I worked for an independent company on the counter when Horizon was implemented , the first day I was in the office until 11pm because they couldn’t even get that right,
I worked my way up to manage a few and even back then we tried to tell the PO that it was a disaster waiting to happen,
The PO kept saying it wasn’t the horizon making the mistakes it was the people using it,
We said if you can’t prove the system is right then you can’t prove the people are wrong,
They where adamant they where right even when we proved them wrong,
I said it then and I say it now it was corrupt from the start.
When we balanced by hand the differences where never like that, so if there was no money trail how come the PO can say there was losses there wasn’t any evidence to say the individual post office had taken that money in but all of a sudden a machine tells you it’s has, Sorry but not a chance.
To make it worse the helplines where manned by people that had never stepped into a post office in there lives, that was one argument I had often how can you help if you don’t even understand what I’m talking about?
You should consider offering your evidence? Fascinating story.
I second @zie9171 to say that you definitely should offer your evidence to the Inquiry ... it's just the sort of detail that Sir Wyn Williams would like to hear !
systemic corruption and malpractice. it's a disgrace. I'm from NZ and I have just heard about this saga this week because I heard a radio news brief on the inquiry. i looked it up and have been appalled at what has happened.
As a stamp collector for many years, I stopped buying and collecting British stamps issued by the PO as a token of my support to the sub postmasters who was unfairly treated by the PO .
This is the type of behaviour we’ve come to expect from the police, but the post office? Wow. If justice doesn’t involve individual accountability and criminal action, then it’s not justice. Money back and a quashed conviction doesn’t equate to a life destroyed.
Wasn’t investigated by police, it was all in house by the post office! That’s the point. 🤦♂️
This just proves that absolutely anyone can be labelled as a criminal and receive any and all punishments as a result if everything can be manipulated to paint you as the bad guy
Mojo should do a top 10 of lies committed by the post office.
A privatised company retaining a 300 year privilege to be able to prosecute does not sit well.
Never mind her CBE, how about Paula Vennells gives back her £3 million bonus for a start? Then prosecutions for perjury for all those who lied in court, and whatever is possible regarding theft and assault for taking money off Sub Postmasters that they didn't owe, for destroying their lives and livelihoods, and depriving some of them of their liberty.
How about actual consequences as opposed to a bit of embarrassment?
I have never heard about this! I am actually shocked! That the Judge said the post office was at best incompetant, and at worst EVIL!
[ The Sub Postmaster final payment - I have been harassed, abused and assaulted and threatened with extermination by my former landlord - the court awarded me £5,999.41 from which the court for all it's pain, deducted £2,922.33, - whereas my solicitor receives £26,050.56 for legal representation in court - that was not defended by the other side.
I hear that the Post Office look to prosecute Fujitsu! A case of passing the buck and symptomatic of the blame culture rampant in UK! Fujitsu designed the software based on information provided by the Post Office; clearly the information was faulty and the Post Office failed to undertake due diligence. So the buck stops with the Post Office, which, sad to say, is still the dinosaur that it was when I worked for it over 30 years ago; the managerial structure of the Post Office was based on length of service and seniority, not on ability, so most managers were incompetent loons who just held highly paid sinecures... Nothing appears to have changed; the Post Office ought to be fully privatised so that managers are appointed, as they are in private companies, on ability alone.
I am a qualified lesbian
Really? Did you ever work in the Rem Unit at Brighton Main Post Office in the 1980s - it was staffed mainly by hirsute women: humping all those heavy coin bags around must have boosted their testosterone levels!
Richard branson offering a holiday is one of the cheapest and insulting gestures to attach his name to a cause.
My local postmistress, up the road, was charged with fraud, it was overturned. Eventually, she separated from the PO and now runs a One Stop.
Pardons are not overturning wrongful convictions. Nor negating false admissions made under extreme duress and with lies told to the victims.
The govt is going the exoneration route, which means ‘absolve someone from blame for wrong doing’
@@FateBoostThe UN ordered no more paper from 2025. Finding excuses to abolish the post office will assist in that.
The actual criminals in control and their obedient servants should have proceeds of crime upon all they and their families own until honest auditors work out what was right and just for them to be paid. Major shareholders also. Were businesses such as Blackrock and Vanguard invested?
Reminds me of the robodebt scandal in Australia, although that one was way more recent and the perpetrators are still riding high in Australian politics and public service.
It is not 'compensation' the victims are entitled to, it is reparation, plus full responsibility for this criminal action, by those who intimidated and in many cases caused the deaths of those innocent people, to be enacted against the institutions that implemented this diabolical scandal.
We had the same in Canada. It was called Phoenix payroll system.
what was the outcome? was justice served?
The postmasters must be reimbursed and not the pittance they have been offered. Like they always say, the only winners here were the Lawyers with their fees. The British Government is held responsible and as such, start writing million pound reimbursements to each postmaster effected and gaol all the corrupt executives involved.
They’re subpostmasters.
Isn't it suspicious that the errors were always debits, never credits? Someone at Fujitsu London was hacking in and stealing money.
Easy money 💸💸💸
They seem to have known they could exploit the fact that individual subpostmasters were liable for any shortfall. Never wonder why workers want a union -they could not have hidden the problem so easily or for so long.
"and the victims get the justice they deserve.".. is only half of it; ".. and the perpetrators are bourght to justice in accorance with their callous actions".. may have completed it.
I had listened to the BBC radio expose of this scandal prior to the drama. It’s amazing that Ms Vennells accepted her honour knowing what was happening and again that it was some time after the drama that she begrudgingly- in my opinion, handed it back.
'' who knew a Tory MP could be so nice?'' Jesus Christ they just cant help it .
I suspect that every MP during at least the last decade knew about this , but as usual , kept it from the British public .
Top job bonuses should be paid back to us the tax payers who are picking up the money for the enquiry. Politicians, why didn’t you pursue this scandal years ages when you knew what was happening? You need to be held accountable for your apathy.
Thank you. An excellent summary
My thoughts are who the hell would want to be a postmaster with an employer like the post office? The postmasters and postmistresses are a national asset - and this is how they were treated.
Sounds like the Robodebt scandle in Australia. Lots of peope ended their lives, went to jail, went bankrupt etc. All because of dodgy software.
Also, some more heads need to roll before this is over. The government in 1999 (Labour) chose the Horizon computer system over all others not because it was the best option, but because it was the cheapest.
Yet the channel spouts Pro Labour crap all the time 😊
@@LeviJamesRE FACTS.
Thats how it works in most countries, the company that can offer the cheapest service often wins. Might not be the best, but its cheap😂😂. I worked for a company that installed roadside wildlife fencing. Was not the best but it was cheap, paid with taxes ofc😂
Well done Watchmojo you did a good job explaining it since everyone's seems to be talking about it and I didnt know anything about it
The BBC investigated it back in 2022... took two years to take notice
Vennels and her close staff should return their salary and if warranted go to prison
Send the CEOS to jail. If they cry ‘I’m innocent it’s not my fault etc etc’ then I would say ‘how many 100s cried they were innocent and nothing happened’ ppl took their own life’s over this shite. It’s disgusting. It’s 1 of the reasons I hate technology. Rip to the VICTIMS who took their own life’s at no fault of their own. Give them all compensation NOW! It won’t make things right at all but if hitting them where it hurts most, their pocket, then sue em for all they’ve got! Everyone effected by this, I wish u all the best and every happiness and hopefully an amazing comfortable retirement on a shit load of money your owed! Take care everyone xxx
People did this. Bad awful evil horrible people. Not “technology” that you supposedly hate lol. (As you write that in a comment on a RUclips video that you are able to access through the internet or 5G (or similar) coverage- not to mention watching on one of your devices etc etc all brought to you by….. technology. It can be just as easily manipulated for the good of your comment as the evil of the entire Post Office scandal. 🤷🏻♀️ (ps- otherwise I wholeheartedly agree with you on everything else you said!!!!!! ❤️❤️)
@@lovelyjanuary that’s a very good point lol. Yes it’s the evil ppl behind the technology that’s to blame. I binged watched the itv programme yesterday so I’m more up to date on everything that happened now lol. Such a tragic story for all involved. Thanks for the comment take care lv 😊 xxx
The ceos should queue up outside their nearest prison after donating all their ill gotten gains to the sub post masters. Then ask to be let in the prison and to be kept there for a minimum of 20+years.
What an excellent video!!
Sadly this kind of behaviour isn’t it uncommon for government companies. There’s a huge culture of protecting the reputation of the business and individuals. We always say that the shit rolls downhill until it hits someone who cant sidestep it.
It's not only the Post Office who shafted the sub-postmasters. The wonderful legal team charged them £47,000,000 for services rendered. What is the matter with people?
Absolutely disgraceful. Sending innocent people who worked hard to prison over a faulty computer system they were warned about. Finally some good decision making from the government. Victims should be compensated large sums of £. Take it from the illegal immigrant budget!!!
. Take it from the illegal immigrant budget!!! Why? How were they to blame? Take it from the bonuses and pensions of those responsible.
Why? Because as a nation we shouldnt be spending the amount of money we are, housing people who are here illegally. Nobody said it was their fault. You're right about the pension/bonus bit though, it just wont be enough to cover it@@EdDueim
@@jdys8525 Very wealthy and privileged people have committed a massive injustice and your first thought is that the poorest and most vulnerable should be penalised for it. An interesting perspective. How about the cost of cleaning up the raw sewage dumped into our waterways and on our coasts? Maybe the homeless or disability budgets should pay for that. We get it; you hate migrants. But do you have to drag it in to every topic?
I dont even know where to begin with that. Why suggest such ridiculous scenarios? Most likely you are just seeking an argument, to which I decline to engage.
We? You speak for others?? Wow.. I don't 'hate' anybody btw, there's enough of that in the world as it is. Now if you dont mind @@EdDueim
@@jdys8525 " I decline to engage. " Probably wise.
Sir Tony Blair was warned the Horizon IT system at the centre of the Post Office scandal could be flawed before it was rolled out, a document shows.
Is that Teflon Tony.....when will someone lock him up.
Yet this channel spouts Pro Labour crap all the time
What excuse did they come up with to make him a sir?
He tried to stop it being rolled out but Fujitsu and the PO pressured them to sign off. The Tories were the ones who brought it in
What the hell happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? They had no evidence that they had stole the money, no evidence to show where the stolen money was and yet convictions were being laid out to these people on the simple basis "the computer is always right, i have rang up and asked the company we paid a billion pounds for a product is it good or not and they said it is solid!"
Must be a scam between individuals in Fujitsu & Post Office accountants back in the day. No record of where the money went after it was paid or put into the PO reserve account??!!! We now know Fujitsu employees could alter the figures when the PO said they couldn’t.
Or has the system been hacked by someone in Fujitsu or a foreign player eg Russia?
Get on with compensating those wrongly convicted, & convict those that lied about it for years to cover their on behinds.
Punishing an organisation does nothing. Punishing living individuals does, it scares the daylights out of them, but it never happens when it relates to government.
If this happen in China or Russia we would of been told look how bad they are
Whole families need fair compensation
And the people who covered it up need to go to prison for a long time at very least..
Trouble at Post Office - Panorama - 17th August 2015. This programme was an investigation into the scandal - but ignored. It's available on RUclips.
Unless the Sub Post Masters get real compensation and the Post Office exces , Vennells and many others are prosecuted/jailed there won’t be any real justice.
Ive watched many of the inquiry interviews. Its a case of “cant remember” or “somebody eases fault”. At best, many of the investigators involved were badly trained, and/or incompetent. At worst, the word evil comes to mind!
I am thinking that this issue is a big wake-up call to big organisations and government departments to deal with people honestly, or face the consequences.
The Post Office should be dissolved in an avalanche of shame.
Sabotage. Internal sabotage. From the inside out.
So many lives have been destroyed because of this... and it STILL hasn't been resolved!
Watching this was hard but boy, has it made an impact!
The miscarriage of justice has stunned and appalled the nation in a way never seen before!!!
Let's give these poor innocent people the justice they deserve!!!
You mean the same people that text me to say i wasnt home while im waiting in my doorway lied??? Shocker
Unfortunately the lawyers were NOT “working for free”.
They were working for “No win, no fee”.
It's hard not to get outraged by this and feel utmost compassion for the poor sub postmasters - Shame that a TV drama had to make it news, but needs must. The post office should have realised that something was wrong - the amount of people that complaining..surely someone must have heard the alarm bells ringing ...Shame on them ( and Fujitsu )
Without doubt the most important
video MOJO has ever produced.
How can a post office investigate charge and convict people?
Via private prosecution act. Unlike countries like the US, Common Law is an open avenue for anyone, private or public, similar to civil case, The UK law allow private individual and organisation to prosecute someone. While the same power would only be allowed by the DA and Federal Prosecutor in the US, most of these are summary crime like trespassing or larceny, but evidently you can also prosecute fraud privately in a crown court...
This is what happens when you rely on a big nanny state government!
2 points from USA, 1.Power currupts, 2.The 2nd Ammendment.Our forefathers were your loss.
I never even heard of this until I saw the drama
Why aren't they (Royal Mail thieves and killers) in jail for fraud or other offences?
If we want justice in the UK shall we pitch ITV for a new drama, not the police?
Sadly the Post Office can take you to court directly skipping the Police. Had the Police been involved Jo, Lee and many others wouldn't have been at Court as the Police would have found no evidence to suggest either of them were stealing. So the Police couldn't do anything, fall its flaws the Police here aren't to blame and they do Try and get people convicted with evidence or if your framed let off. The Post Office is entirely to blame. The Courts then started to realise they were seeing more and more cases or people going to them and then started to question the Post Office. As some people plead Guilty to keep out of jail they were ordered to pay the money back. Some who plead Not Guilty were still ordered to pay back and sometimes the Post Office would argue that the computer wasn't to blame telling everyone your the only one and then the Court would use that. The only people who had the power to stop it was the Post Office
This puts me in mind of the Aberfan disaster. No one was ever held responsible.
All this cruelty and deceit, and to what end? Who benefits from this?
POL did
Did the “bugs” ever show overages where money was owed to the sub postmasters? If not why not?
All those that lied need to be prosecuted asap!!!!
Hannah Arendt dubbed this "the banality of evil"
Amglimpse made a wonderful video on this situation to. It was a great watch :D
And the investigators have committed perjury in court and there bosses... Send all of them to jail
The corruption went all the way to the top!
Big business will get away with this as usual.
The two main Knights of the Realm should have their knighthoods rescinded immediately especially Sir Davy that man is dodgy as a square circle
Scandal is too light a word and doesn't cover the amount of devistation is caused or the level of corruption at the top/
Criminal negligence
Interesting. Says a lot about how trust and reputation impact justice to the detriment of the little guy.
No amount of money can account for the years lost.
So what happen to the money that the innocent people paid in?
So I just saw an article about the Post Office Scandal today. Watched the CEO cry and cry and say she didn't know anything. It seemed believable.
It was the first I'd heard of this scandal. Had no idea, never heard of it til today. (I live in America.)
So I looked for a summary of what happened. I was shocked to learn this has been ongoing since the fucking 1990's; that's insane! This was the only summary video I could find that was less than an hour long!
I'm only halfway through this video and already it's clear that the CEO and the board absolutely MUST be held accountable. Innocent people WERE IMPRISONED over this?!? That is beyond unacceptable.
I can't believe this is the first I'm heading about this. Thirty years of bullshit, and this scandal is still ongoing... Thirty years later, and people still don't have justice. How horrifying.
My heart is with all the victims of this scandal. I hope you all get justice soon.
What I don't understand is that just because they could access the accounts, what motive did they have to change the accounts?
Postman pat knew nothing...
According to The Guardian, there was an instance where a user attempted to confirm receipt of cash. Each time the user pressed 'enter' on the frozen screen, the record would update. I'm inclined to think this might not be a software bug, but rather a hardware or network error. The user should have checked the transaction.
One would wonder if anyone found it odd that the same transaction could be listed within a few minutes. Did anyone bother to verify the data?
The news reports that the cash was less than expected, but were there more stamps than indicated in the data? If so, someone should have noticed that they were not sold.
Has Fujitsu admitted to the fault, or is it a result of the post office's management error? The news of this issue has spread worldwide, tarnishing Fujitsu's reputation. If the fault lies more with the post office than with Fujitsu, there's a potential risk of legal action against the post office by Fujitsu.
It's not uncommon for users to operate systems in ways engineers could not predict, and in this case, the post office had to inform Fujitsu after three staff members were accused. While it might be Fujitsu's fault, the involvement of 700 people in the post office and court errors raises questions about the true source of the problem.
Richard Branson stepping in is nice and all, but all that money he's got and he just offered a free holiday, that made me chuckle.
Post office has been going down hill for at least one or two decades. The culture is corrupted from inside. It is largely due to the special status and rights it has enjoyed. This kind of software errors could have been reproduced and confirmed in lab easily under stress test. It needs to be reformed.
Handing her CBE back is meaningless because only the Monarch can strip someone of an honour.
How come all the errors were against all the Subpostmasters and never in favour of the Subpostmasters?
Tony Blair to prison too.
All of the postal workers should have quit.