Today we're taking a look at the Yu Jing Invincible Army. I have a lot to say about this army, but it's important to note that this video is coming from a very surface-level assessment. I'm not an experienced Invincibles player, and have only played a few games with them (though many more against). As such, we're mostly looking at the faction from a first-order perspective, focusing on the big, obvious power plays like the Invincible link team, how to support it, and how to play through it's many limitations.
Hey, thanks for the video (and shout-out). I know this video was difficult to create since you don't play IA a lot, but I do and I felt like I was at the limit of what my capabilities can do with the faction. That's why I asked it, because I wanted someone with more expertise in the game to talk about the faction I main. Unfortunately, and this isn't your fault, you've explained and touched upon the prefered Profiles I already knew about the faction. I've been playing this faction for almost 2y, so I've already found which profiles work and which don't. This just means I have a good understanding of the faction and it's just my tactics and/or bad luck holding me back. Thanks again for your time and effort into making this video. I appreciate it. ❤
This video was always going to be a bit limited by my own experience, but I would suggest you be open to the possibility that it's the limitations of the faction that are your major restricting factor. Invincible army just straight up lacks tools other factions would use to regularly engage with certain problems cleanly and that narrow capability range puts you in situations where you're fighting the dice, table, opponent, scenario, *and* your own army. Managing four of those at once makes infinity challenging; the fifth means you need one of the others to give and sometimes they just don't. If you're open to using your existing models with different rules, I think torchlight delivers the same fantasy but without as many obstacles to play.
@@Psyqhical still a little surface level at this point (4-5 games with, about the same number against) but my impressions have been really good. They let you go heavily in on the heavy infantry orders and links military power armour fantasy, *but* with a couple of major distinctions compared to Invincible Army: 1. firstly, they have a broader range of profiles including some absolutely fantastic defensive options (lots of different minelayer profiles and some relatively cheap midfield auxillary elements in particular gives you a strong addition to a layered defence which IA totally lacks). 2. secondly, they have access to much cleaner tools for going in after enemy hacking defences. Models like the beasthunter give you a way of solving repeater defences without getting any worse than targeted, but more importantly they can really pro-actively attack enemy hackers in their own deployment zones thanks to waverider killer hackers. These troops fill the space of something like a haidao but while they don't have the effective extra wound, they have pitchers which lets them throw their repeaters out to go after enemy hackers on favourable terms. This means that it's going to be very rare to find a situation where Torchlight is stonewalled at the matchup level against certain lists. There will be some change you can make, some little extra flexibility you can include, some line of play you can take because it only cost you 15pts to add it to a list rather than 50pts. It's been a really solid experience overall.
After all your angst about appearing negative (talking about a faction with obvious flaws), you almost managed to gush enthusiasm for a few moments here and there - well done!
I've played a bit of IA here and there. Still trying to wrap my head around how some pieces are used. However, I do have to shoutout some of the sillier options they have available. Like the 2 Yuan Huo + haidao sniper haris. I haven't tried it yet, but I feel like there might be some merit playing it more like vanilla Yu Jing and taking advantage of the smaller fireteams. I've been wanting to try the forward fireteam where they're both minelayers. Krit actually has two options for the minelayer drop. Either a E/M mine or a deployable repeater. While you also get the krazy koala from the Hulang. Since you didn't mention it. The Shang Ji hacker actually looks pretty good. In a fireteam that's a BTS 6 hacker behind a -6 firewall, which sounds rather hard to dislodge (presuming you can spare the points).
If there was a zhuyong hacker I'd probably have extolled its virtues linked with a tinbot -6 model, so that's a good point. The hacker shang ji is still *very* expensive, but it's not totally unaffordable and the synergy there is strong.
Once had a liu Xing hacker landing near my Geckos out of line sight. The dude managed to shut down both of them and went hunting my specialists. Was a plaesure to watch
Really interested in your broader assessment of them. I started my collection with IA, because they look cool, and then gradually migrated over to White Banner. From my experience, you either roll over some unprepared opponents with them, or get outmaneuvered/hacked/both.
The WIP 12 guys interviewed the side who won the 2021 IGL tournament with IA, and his glowing recommendation was the Shang-Ji Hacker-Haidao KHD-Shang-Jesus Haris. But even he said he was probably more lucky than tactical in winning
Been playing Krit/Hulang FT Duo, both with forward deploy and mine layer to build a repeater network protected with mines for Daoying and Haidao hackers... The only problem is these 4 guys cost you nearly half of the available points but they are effective
IA is a great army. I completely disagree with the statement that it is weak. The situation described by you at 15:49 only speaks of the low level of play of your opponent, because either repeater can be easily removed using a deactivator, which is usually found on 1-3 models in the army list. Hacking problems are solved effectively in Invincibles with the help of 1-2 tinbots (-6), engineers, deactivators, Bixie with stealth and the ability not to expose a unit with tinbot -6 to hacking. I've been playing IA for 3 years now. Only IA. And based on my sporting achievements, I can boldly say that IA can play at a high sporting level and can play well. I note that the maximum number of orders per link team reaches 17 in missions where you can get an additional Tac Awar or + order for EVO. And there are several more moments that are very far from the real picture of existence. I really appreciate your works about the game, but I fundamentally disagree with this one, because I understand that this only speaks of your little knowledge about this army. I’m always ready to give a short interview on this army, as an experienced player. And who even takes a fusilier hacker? Just... why?
Sigh. You miss the point. The fun of Invinicbles is learning to solve every Infinity game problem in the same way. You know the "be like water thing"? Phew. Why dot that? Why be like water when you can be the brick. Think about how many daily life problems you could solve with half a brick, quickly applied? Wobbly table - brick it. Toothe ache - brick it . Windows slow and laggy - brick it. Be the brick! Screw being like water. Be a brick and be a HMG, in a fire team in active with 8-12 orders (depedning on whether you get first turn) to solve the problem. What do you even need a tin bot or deactivator for? All bloat. No hacking problems with plan brick. Just have a HMG/brick for each turn - next level brick. The next level brick from next level brick is to have two brick lists, and go for consistency.
I'm honestly curious: you're the very first person I've met who seems to be serious about using deactivators. Tell me how you go about it. You need LoF, so how are you going to get to pitchers on roofs? And how are you going after Morans? Your only C+ models are all hackable.
@@burlesford You won't believe me: Deactivators are not used in the attack. They turn off the repeaters that were thrown into the deployment zone. For fifteen orders I can let myself just bypass the repeaters in the middle of the table.
I'd say that since you haven't played them, you could talk a bit more about what you did against them and what they did to you. I have found Invincible Army is the Vulnerable Army. To both hacking as well as E/M. It's a theme that just can't be played in todays game. Actually not great when it first started either. And not really on theme when most of your IA armies are made up of mostly Zhanshi core teams. Tinbots don't help that much. My enemy knows to kill them first. The only KHD is the Haidao, who doesn't count as an Invincible and has BTS 0. White Banner with the addition of Daebak, now Out Invicibles, the Invincible Army.
Now, I may be new to infinity, but listening to this faction focus and several others... hacking just seems too good. Answers so many problems, punishes cool big things, gives you even more disruption tools that make it so that you don't have to actually fight and kill models. Let alone spotlight for guided missles. Every army I'm excited about just gets hard countered by hacking. Steel phalanx, pano with cool tags and HI, yu jing HI... Is it possible that CB nerfs hacking in N5, or should I just abondon the idea of these cool factions and play CA or nomads instead?
I'd suggest reconsidering whether hacking is overpowered. While it's disruptive, it's strictly nonlethal except by spending further follow-ups on missile plays which requires further resources, order investment, etc (and is getting slightly nerfed in N5, which I wouldn't expect of most other hacking). For Yu Jing heavy infantry, the absolute quintessential experience is a Su Jian - isolated, immobilised and targeted on a rooftop... worth 50pts in a Supremacy zone and winning the game because isolated and immobilised is not actually dead. And Steel Phalanx, with maybe the exception of Ajax, are absolutely not countered by hacking. They're almost entirely unhackable AND have stealth, which means it's just missile play that has effect on them from the hacking arsenal, and that's inefficient and difficult (although it can still sometimes be more efficient than trying to engage phalanx directly, as they can be so hard to engage in a straight-up fight). TLDR: hacking is absolutely not overpowered, isn't likely to be nerfed apart from a tap to guided missiles, and is a very important part of the game. If you're finding yourself struggling with it, invest in countermeasures and tools that kill hackers. Even Invincibles have a manageable KHD, although Invincibles generally are an army I expect to see buffs in N5.
My boys! The sectorial I started the game with. Love them so much…… but man are you on the ball with saying how uncompetitive they are 😢. Not that I will stop playing them😂
Today we're taking a look at the Yu Jing Invincible Army. I have a lot to say about this army, but it's important to note that this video is coming from a very surface-level assessment. I'm not an experienced Invincibles player, and have only played a few games with them (though many more against). As such, we're mostly looking at the faction from a first-order perspective, focusing on the big, obvious power plays like the Invincible link team, how to support it, and how to play through it's many limitations.
Hey, thanks for the video (and shout-out).
I know this video was difficult to create since you don't play IA a lot, but I do and I felt like I was at the limit of what my capabilities can do with the faction. That's why I asked it, because I wanted someone with more expertise in the game to talk about the faction I main.
Unfortunately, and this isn't your fault, you've explained and touched upon the prefered Profiles I already knew about the faction. I've been playing this faction for almost 2y, so I've already found which profiles work and which don't.
This just means I have a good understanding of the faction and it's just my tactics and/or bad luck holding me back.
Thanks again for your time and effort into making this video.
I appreciate it. ❤
This video was always going to be a bit limited by my own experience, but I would suggest you be open to the possibility that it's the limitations of the faction that are your major restricting factor. Invincible army just straight up lacks tools other factions would use to regularly engage with certain problems cleanly and that narrow capability range puts you in situations where you're fighting the dice, table, opponent, scenario, *and* your own army. Managing four of those at once makes infinity challenging; the fifth means you need one of the others to give and sometimes they just don't.
If you're open to using your existing models with different rules, I think torchlight delivers the same fantasy but without as many obstacles to play.
@@R0bertShepherd yeah, TB has been tempting me and I already painted my IA blue, might as well commit. 🤣
How is your experience with them? 😋
@@Psyqhical still a little surface level at this point (4-5 games with, about the same number against) but my impressions have been really good. They let you go heavily in on the heavy infantry orders and links military power armour fantasy, *but* with a couple of major distinctions compared to Invincible Army:
1. firstly, they have a broader range of profiles including some absolutely fantastic defensive options (lots of different minelayer profiles and some relatively cheap midfield auxillary elements in particular gives you a strong addition to a layered defence which IA totally lacks).
2. secondly, they have access to much cleaner tools for going in after enemy hacking defences. Models like the beasthunter give you a way of solving repeater defences without getting any worse than targeted, but more importantly they can really pro-actively attack enemy hackers in their own deployment zones thanks to waverider killer hackers. These troops fill the space of something like a haidao but while they don't have the effective extra wound, they have pitchers which lets them throw their repeaters out to go after enemy hackers on favourable terms.
This means that it's going to be very rare to find a situation where Torchlight is stonewalled at the matchup level against certain lists. There will be some change you can make, some little extra flexibility you can include, some line of play you can take because it only cost you 15pts to add it to a list rather than 50pts. It's been a really solid experience overall.
After all your angst about appearing negative (talking about a faction with obvious flaws), you almost managed to gush enthusiasm for a few moments here and there - well done!
WOAH ANOTHER GREAT VIDEO! i'm am watching right meow
I've played a bit of IA here and there. Still trying to wrap my head around how some pieces are used.
However, I do have to shoutout some of the sillier options they have available. Like the 2 Yuan Huo + haidao sniper haris.
I haven't tried it yet, but I feel like there might be some merit playing it more like vanilla Yu Jing and taking advantage of the smaller fireteams. I've been wanting to try the forward fireteam where they're both minelayers. Krit actually has two options for the minelayer drop. Either a E/M mine or a deployable repeater. While you also get the krazy koala from the Hulang.
Since you didn't mention it. The Shang Ji hacker actually looks pretty good. In a fireteam that's a BTS 6 hacker behind a -6 firewall, which sounds rather hard to dislodge (presuming you can spare the points).
If there was a zhuyong hacker I'd probably have extolled its virtues linked with a tinbot -6 model, so that's a good point. The hacker shang ji is still *very* expensive, but it's not totally unaffordable and the synergy there is strong.
I was patiently waiting for this :)
Hi Robert. Loving these infinity video's, please can you do a Kosmoflot breakdown .
Once had a liu Xing hacker landing near my Geckos out of line sight. The dude managed to shut down both of them and went hunting my specialists. Was a plaesure to watch
Really interested in your broader assessment of them. I started my collection with IA, because they look cool, and then gradually migrated over to White Banner. From my experience, you either roll over some unprepared opponents with them, or get outmaneuvered/hacked/both.
@@thug4lyfe IA is probably the premier new player crusher in the game. But I don't really think that's a point in their favour.
Let's go! Curious to have my mind changed on Invincible just being a hard but brittle version of White Banner.
I've been eyeing Dashat as my second army since I have so much Haqq stuff so this will be great for me.
The WIP 12 guys interviewed the side who won the 2021 IGL tournament with IA, and his glowing recommendation was the Shang-Ji Hacker-Haidao KHD-Shang-Jesus Haris. But even he said he was probably more lucky than tactical in winning
Been playing Krit/Hulang FT Duo, both with forward deploy and mine layer to build a repeater network protected with mines for Daoying and Haidao hackers... The only problem is these 4 guys cost you nearly half of the available points but they are effective
That's IA in a nutshell. That combo is just intensely cool on it's own merits... buuuuut costs you almost 30% of your entire army's available points.
IA is a great army.
I completely disagree with the statement that it is weak.
The situation described by you at 15:49 only speaks of the low level of play of your opponent, because either repeater can be easily removed using a deactivator, which is usually found on 1-3 models in the army list.
Hacking problems are solved effectively in Invincibles with the help of 1-2 tinbots (-6), engineers, deactivators, Bixie with stealth and the ability not to expose a unit with tinbot -6 to hacking.
I've been playing IA for 3 years now. Only IA.
And based on my sporting achievements, I can boldly say that IA can play at a high sporting level and can play well.
I note that the maximum number of orders per link team reaches 17 in missions where you can get an additional Tac Awar or + order for EVO.
And there are several more moments that are very far from the real picture of existence.
I really appreciate your works about the game, but I fundamentally disagree with this one, because I understand that this only speaks of your little knowledge about this army.
I’m always ready to give a short interview on this army, as an experienced player.
And who even takes a fusilier hacker? Just... why?
10/10 meme copypasta. I thought you were serious until you mentioned the deactivator.
@@R0bertShepherd Skilll issue. The FD Kokram and Leit Sniper make this video a meme too, but 1/10
Sigh. You miss the point. The fun of Invinicbles is learning to solve every Infinity game problem in the same way. You know the "be like water thing"? Phew. Why dot that? Why be like water when you can be the brick. Think about how many daily life problems you could solve with half a brick, quickly applied? Wobbly table - brick it. Toothe ache - brick it . Windows slow and laggy - brick it. Be the brick! Screw being like water. Be a brick and be a HMG, in a fire team in active with 8-12 orders (depedning on whether you get first turn) to solve the problem. What do you even need a tin bot or deactivator for? All bloat. No hacking problems with plan brick. Just have a HMG/brick for each turn - next level brick. The next level brick from next level brick is to have two brick lists, and go for consistency.
I'm honestly curious: you're the very first person I've met who seems to be serious about using deactivators. Tell me how you go about it. You need LoF, so how are you going to get to pitchers on roofs? And how are you going after Morans? Your only C+ models are all hackable.
@@burlesford You won't believe me: Deactivators are not used in the attack. They turn off the repeaters that were thrown into the deployment zone.
For fifteen orders I can let myself just bypass the repeaters in the middle of the table.
TIL Lei is MI. Big fan of not recommending a 10 unit list, feel that is a bit of a list building trap for the faction.
16 Order in 5 people is what TLB does on a regular ;)
I tried not to mention either torchlight brigade or morats in this video or it would have just been an entire series of 'the cooler Daniel' moments :P
Reason #1: Chinese Space Marines
Also, you call Tai Sheng So-Ra Kwon several times FYI
Oh dear lemme get the popcorn
I've tried to be fairly positive and have already received some powerful negative reaction which was probably to be expected.
Oh Robert the things you do to me. ❤
I'd say that since you haven't played them, you could talk a bit more about what you did against them and what they did to you. I have found Invincible Army is the Vulnerable Army. To both hacking as well as E/M. It's a theme that just can't be played in todays game. Actually not great when it first started either. And not really on theme when most of your IA armies are made up of mostly Zhanshi core teams. Tinbots don't help that much. My enemy knows to kill them first. The only KHD is the Haidao, who doesn't count as an Invincible and has BTS 0. White Banner with the addition of Daebak, now Out Invicibles, the Invincible Army.
Does this mean a white banner focus is on the way?
Probably at some point soon(ish) :)
Now, I may be new to infinity, but listening to this faction focus and several others... hacking just seems too good. Answers so many problems, punishes cool big things, gives you even more disruption tools that make it so that you don't have to actually fight and kill models.
Let alone spotlight for guided missles.
Every army I'm excited about just gets hard countered by hacking. Steel phalanx, pano with cool tags and HI, yu jing HI...
Is it possible that CB nerfs hacking in N5, or should I just abondon the idea of these cool factions and play CA or nomads instead?
I'd suggest reconsidering whether hacking is overpowered.
While it's disruptive, it's strictly nonlethal except by spending further follow-ups on missile plays which requires further resources, order investment, etc (and is getting slightly nerfed in N5, which I wouldn't expect of most other hacking).
For Yu Jing heavy infantry, the absolute quintessential experience is a Su Jian - isolated, immobilised and targeted on a rooftop... worth 50pts in a Supremacy zone and winning the game because isolated and immobilised is not actually dead.
And Steel Phalanx, with maybe the exception of Ajax, are absolutely not countered by hacking. They're almost entirely unhackable AND have stealth, which means it's just missile play that has effect on them from the hacking arsenal, and that's inefficient and difficult (although it can still sometimes be more efficient than trying to engage phalanx directly, as they can be so hard to engage in a straight-up fight).
TLDR: hacking is absolutely not overpowered, isn't likely to be nerfed apart from a tap to guided missiles, and is a very important part of the game. If you're finding yourself struggling with it, invest in countermeasures and tools that kill hackers. Even Invincibles have a manageable KHD, although Invincibles generally are an army I expect to see buffs in N5.
The Liu Xing multi rifle is one of my favorite units in the game. Dude has clutched its fair share of games for me. Thanks for the great video!
My boys! The sectorial I started the game with. Love them so much…… but man are you on the ball with saying how uncompetitive they are 😢. Not that I will stop playing them😂
This is the way. :)
Im not a yu jing player. Heck im not an Invincible army player. I am just a Liu Xing Enthusiast.
A person of culture.