Filmmaker Reacts: World of Warcraft - Anduin and Sylvanas - Shadowlands
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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Sylvanas and Anduin's scenes were the best of Shadowlands IMO!
I find it interesting that despite all that Sylvanas had done wrong, Anduin never really displayed a genuine hate for her like others had shown. On the flip side, Sylvanas clearly had some level of respect for Anduin just as she had respect for Varian. And of course there's that "Little Lion" nickname she gave him that mirrors the "Little Lord Sun" she used for her dead younger brother Lirath Windrunner, indicating that in some ways Anduin also reminds her of her brother. It's just a really great and interesting dynamic and I look forward to them reuniting later on, likely in the Midnight expansion.
in the end, she was a pawn in The Jailer's chess game, and he got to her in the best way he knew how, by convincing her, that EVERYTHING in her life and undeath was fated to be, that she nor anyone else ever had free will.
The most insidious thing about domination magic in Warcraft is your awareness. Mind control makes it so you don’t really remember what happened but domination, your awake and fully aware of what’s happening, you just can’t control your body.
Yup. I think going forward we will hear more about domination magic. It doesn't seem like they fleshed it all out just to never use it again. As time goes on I genuinely am starting to believe the Titans have dominated sargeras. If not, maybe they dominated argus. Something is fishy with the Titans (obviously lol) and I feel like all the runes (or lack thereof on certain titans) means something.
Anduin reminds her of her little brother, whom she was closes to... out of the 4 siblings.
She used to call him... "Little sun" and Vereesa, the younger sister, "Little Moon,"
I know not everyone loved the story in Shadowlands, but I really enjoyed it, and the Anduin & Sylvanas interactions were absolutely the best part.
I really enjoyed the story, too, and its subtle implications. The problem was how long it took to play out.
I will die on the hill that 9.1 being rushed to meet the deadline regardless of the pandemic was what ruined the expansion. It really felt like they intended to include a lot more. I strongly believe that parts of the final raid cinematic were originally Chains of Domination flashback scenes.
The people who hate it are the people who hate everyting in WoW since start. Hating it is their thing. They are 'hateboys' so like fanboys just even worse.
@@jare3959 While Covid for sure has an impact, I'm quite sure that the final raid cinematic is where it should be, since it would have revealed too much and they didn't want you to question the death gods, since there was already too much reason for it - for example that the Primus had creaeted domination magic, not Zovaal, that being the Jailer wasn't his choice at all, but he was forced to do this by the others.
It's overall also just a glimpse, because there is clearly much more to it they don't want to show yet, because it would reveal far too much of the whole background, the real truth behind all of it.
It's like a "Darth Vader killed your father" scene. It shows the connection without revealing the full truth.
most of the hate about Shadowlands was about the timegating, grinding and about Zo'vall being as dull as Thanos off Wish. this being supposedly was manipulating behind the scenes since WC1, yet he took us as no threat, not even a little bit, even when we escaped The Maw.
If you read the Sylvanas book and then see these cinematics it becomes apparent that Sylvanas sees her little brother in Anduin.
Definitely recommend the audiobook it's voiced by Sylvanas herself and she does an AMAZING job 10/10 read ❤
@@RainbowQueen23 I know right. Amazing job by her.
Whoever said to you that Syl was “a terrible person” before she died / was transformed into undeath by Arthas, is absolutely trolling. 😂
One of the biggest complaints about Sylvanas' storyline during Shadowlands is the disbelief that she would actually believe she's not being used by the Jailer. She really had no contingency plan or trick up her sleeve. Also, they should've done more to bring elements of the Sylvanas book into the game. The character arc would've been much more complete.
There was no other plan. Zovaal is a god. You don't have plans against gods. Her goal was to change a COSMIC FORCE, the afterlife itself, any kind of absurd plan would have made it as bad as most other stories, where they suddenl come up with something that would never work and then just works by plot armor and the bad guys suddenly being absolute stupid and doing nothing.
And why exactly should Sylvanas think that she was used? Did the player character ever think a second that they are used? No. The players just accept that they gonna by the good guys and winning heroes.
What I loved most from the crybabies was, "How can you trust someone called "The Jailer!" LOL."
That guy was MADE "The Jailer" by the death gods the player chars willingly go along with.
"He is using domination magic, how can you not see how evil that makes him."
Domination magic was createad by the other deat gods the players got no prob with, to chain him and he simply learned to use these chains as weapons to break free.
Overall it is easy to see what Sylvanas sees in Zovaal:
1. Someone with the power needed to reach the goal.
2. Someone who was just as broken by others as herself and then did not falter but fought back, even in this broken state. Just like herself.
I will die on the pedestal that the Anduin-Sylvanas dynamic in _Shadowlands_ is top-tier storytelling by the writing team. Sure, the Jailer is a pretty bland villain, but the journey that these two characters take is amazing. Sylvanas is a fascinating character in part because of all the conflicting motivations she has. However numb she has become to emotions, there are still flickers of the person she once was.
Her alliance with the Jailer feels to me like one of desperation: like she's made the least-bad choice in her own mind. I never quite figured out if she truly believes him or if she sees no alternative. Maybe she holds out hope that, when Jailer's plan is complete, she'll have some say in what comes next.
Are you doing the Covenant cutscenes? I'd particularly love to see you react to the Ardenweald and Bastion story lines. The Chains of Domination one that you watched here comes after we reclaim Uther's soul from Torghast.
Zovaal is simlpy realiastic. We are simply just used to the typical trope story telling of the fancy villain who gives a big speech about all his (most of the time stupid) plans, then fail by just that alone and the fact, that he doesn't kill the hero when he could, both making no sense.
Same for manipulators. Most of the time when you got a manipulator in a story, it is clear from the start, making the whole manipulation thing useless and so they also just instantly fail, if not the opposite and it's just a random twist at the end "It was really me all the time, haha!" - just to also lose again instantly after that.
The sole reason why the player 'understand' that Zovaal is the bad guy is, that they always see themselves on the good side, as the heroes, so who ever is on the other side is the bad guy (what can have catastrophic results in real life by the way). They never even care to look at what the whole thing is about, who started all this and how terrible the Afterlife is for them.
What makes Zovaal evil is that he doesn't care about mortals (anymore). So it would be stupid to make him talk to them all the time or even more care to focus on them. He wants teo reach his goals: get out of the Maw. Get his full soul and power back. Then reach the Sepulchor to claim the world soul Azeroth and make Death the victor in the Cosmic War.
He got pretty clear goals and they all make sense from his PoV - and are indeed desastrous for mortals, so a hell lot of reason to fight him.
It's not bland, that's how 'evil' looks like. Bland is the "muahahahah, me eVuL" evil, which does evil things just for the sake of it.
To see Shalamayne twisted into a mourneblade like this after everything it had come to stand for previously low key broke me the first time I saw this cinematic. Both Varian and Saurfang wielded that weapon with mighty hearts and tremendous self sacrifice while laying down their own lives in service to their people. It's rediscovery was a catalyst for Anduin to connect with his hero father's spirit and find his own inner resolution to do "what a king must do." That, as I understand this theme, is to serve one's people with a courageous, open heart. Here he and Shalamayne are both forced to "serve" in a way contrary to all they have stood for.
Shalamayne as a mourneblade also echoes the scene in the famous Wrath cinematic where Frostmourne appears beneath King Terenas Menethil's chillingly ironic voice lines about Arthas becoming "a weapon of righteousness." And just to twist the knife a little harder, Anduin's pose as he leaps at the Archon echoes his father's heroic leap from the gunship in the Legion Broken Shore cinematic. In that pose, both wield Shalamayne in "service" and the irony cuts the player viewer on some level.
Later in the War Within cinematic Shalamayne is highlighted at the start of the scene, tarnished but gradually glowing again with hope, and then the cinematic ends with another blade: Sargeras' sword, crafted of hatred and a desire to purge the universe of corruption at the expense of many innocents who also inhabit it. It echoes the purging of Stratholme - the critical moment of choice on Arthas' tragic journey - on a much bigger scale.
So the whole Shalamayne theme seems to me one of service. Who and what do we serve and why? Which acts do we consider justified in that service and which ones do we not? How do we fight for our values without compromising our honour and integrity? Other characters in these cinematics have faced a similar dilemma and made their own journeys through it. (Sylvanas, Uther, Thrall.)
I've thought about Shalamayne a lot over the years. It's nice to have a chance to express some of my musings somewhere. Thank you.
I found, that “little lion” started as derogatory, but ended up being affectionate
Sylvanas is getting emotional for reasons that are explored in the "Sylvanas" novel. She lost her little brother (who she sees in Anduin, hence "little Lion") years ago. After the defeat of the Lich King, she felt devoid of purpose and threw herself off ICC and died. (Skipping a few scenes here). She was shown how the afterlife works by a Valkyr, and because nobody can choose what afterlife they have and loved ones are often separated from each other for eternity, she felt a great injustice at the prospect she may never see her lost family again, especially her little brother. That's why she kind of trails off and chokes at the line "we can't even choose who we...". She agreed to join the Jailer's cause, and was brought back to life by a Valkyr swapping places with her. Then Cataclysm happened.
that wasnt the only thing that rattled her in all this, The Jailer convinced her that everything in her life and undeath was fated to be, that free will was an illusion, this is what convinced her more than anything that The Jailer was worth trusting, at least that's what she thought, until after we fight her in SoD and he exposes himself.
The quiet little bit of Arthas theme when Uther looks at Anduin is just *chef's kiss*. It's foreshadowing so much imo.
That blue crystal infused in Shalamayne (Anduin's sword) was Arthas' soul. You can see the confirmation for this in a cinematic where Anduin is forced to kill the Archon. When he passes by Uther escorted by two Kyrians, Uther felt Arthas' soul in Anduin and he touched the wound Arthas made to his soul when he was killing him.
And btw, Kyrians were treating Uther poorly because he didn't ascent in a way he should, he made decisions behind their back, like throwing Arthas' soul into The Maw, he kept his memories, and what's the most important (SHADOWLANDS SPOILER AHEAD!), he helped Forsworns (Dark Kyrians, those who failed to complete a rite of passage) to rebel agains Kyrians.
It always amazed how after everything we seen and went through there were still people who believed that Sylvanas had some master plan and that she wasn't just a tool for the Jailer to use and discard, just like what Anduin said.
And the Gaoler was being controlled.
Sylvanas of course had a plan.
There was simply no way around the need to have the power of a GOD to reach it. Zovaal isn't some random dude you could replace. The only other plan would have been to go to another death god - who already had shown that they would even distort one of their own and chain him forever in the abyss for going against the system.
How do you think they would react to some undead elf woman showing up with signs of maw corruption, demanding to stop their tyranny and instead follow what Zovaal wanted, you know, for what they ripped a part of his soul out of his body.
10:19 - I actually think the word she didn't want to say is "Serve", given the backstory between her and Arthas.
you already saw that Frostmourn was made in the Maw :) in the afterlife:bastion they say that, "it's a weapon that can damage souls that have the maw runes on it"
I think Little Lion is ideal. Sylvanas knew Anduin when his father was still alive and everyone knew Varian was a Lion. If Varian was a lion then Anduin being a little lion makes sense as well. I don't think she was being derogatory.
The point where Sylvanas says “we can’t even choose who we…” - after her book, I’m almost 100% sure she would’ve ended that sentence with “spend it with”. I think what really tipped her over the edge to work with The Jailer wasn’t just the cruel fates that awaited some, but the fact that even those who were sent to better afterlives very often didn’t get to be with their families there.
Little Lion is actually a term of affection from her. She respects Anduin more than most people, even as an enemy. She really does respect his devotion to his people, his conviction and how incorruptible he is. Anduin sees a lot of the pain in Sylvanas and has always believed she may yet still be redeemed from the Banshee she was forced to become.
Imagine to watch a movie with this guy. He just won't shut up. Even for a second:D I know, I know. It's a reaction. But sheesh. All beside that is great
Zovaal, the jailer, was in charge of The Maw and that's where Anduin was when Sylvanas was talking to him. This always made me wonder why Sylvanas never located Nathanos while she was spending all that time in The Maw.
she didnt know and by that time she figured that she'd find him later, they were already at the cusp of unmaking everything.
one of the best cinematics my god!
It was so great!!
@@PhilipHarts they're acting is so grate omg patty always nail it!
The Jailer is to blame for all of her bad decisions, when she cast herself off Icecrown after Wrath, wanting to be free of her undeath, she was given a vision of Hell, WoW's Hell; The Maw. and if that wasnt terrifying enough, when she refused to help The Jailer at first when he made her an offer, he gave her a list of Prophecies that he made manifest, to convince her that her fate was always meant to be, as well as everyone else in creation. this is where her belief stems from that no-one has free will, and that's what brought about her change.
Thank you, while it contains a bit of teaser I think for the book, having this bit properly explained cools quite some of my annoyance with Sylvannas here..
I LOVE the Sylvanas' Choice cinematic. You can see the uncertainty in her eyes, and you're not wrong when you say that there's fondness between them. Sylvanas greatly respected Anduin's father Varian, and first met Anduin when he was a young boy during the Legion era (technically before, when the Horde and Alliance met to discuss how they were going to proceed against the Legion). He reminds her of her little brother, whom she loved most in life and who died during Arthas' invasion of her home. She called her brother Little Lord Sun. Little Lion is a direct reference to her brother's nickname and technically a term of endearment.
Sylvanas and a couple other main characters just got a model update at this point in the Shadowlands. It wasn't for the story specifically. It was an art update.
Shes beginning to see all the red flags from the Jailor slowly throughout. ;)
Anduin and Arthas were kind of similar. I think in the book it said Arthas wasn’t dominated by the Jailer heavily. It was his free will to be the way he was for some part. As far as Anduin, he was forced. There’s later in game cut scenes and cinematics that explain from Anduin’s POV how being dominated changed him. You missed some ending in game cut scenes and ending cinematics for Shadowlands, before Dragonflight. Unless I missed your videos.
It just dawned on me, Sylvanas never saw her brother in the Maw, nor Nathanos. Hmmmmmm.
Her not seeing Nathanos is something the game draws a bit of attention to in the Sylvanas-Tyrande showdown. Her brother died a long while ago, so he probably went to any of the realms of death normally. Maybe Maldraxxus because him wanting to fight the Horde is what got him killed. There are plenty of characters we don't meet in the Shadowlands
Nathanos, was clearly intercepted by the Jailer and locked up in TOrghast.. he cant have that complicatin messing up his obedient minion.
The reason Sylvanas became so powerful is because of Domination magic (didn't exist on Azeroth previously). The same magic that Arthas used to dominate HER. Domination magic is what the Lich King uses to control all the undead. She was included in that. Arthas never gave her a choice to join him. He simply dominated her into joining him. The reason she spent ages trying to convince Anduin to join her is because of her own past and the guilt she knows she will feel by doing the same to Anduin.
The little lion part is not explained in game why she call him that. It not belittling him for her it is affectionate. Anduin reminds her of her little brother. She called him little sun. I read the book and it should have been in game. Non the less its a good arc in my opinion.
Scene also show in general, that even Banshee Sylvanas didn't enjoy to cause all this suffering, it was simply necessary.
"I've not come that far to falter now." and later when she is in conflict with the Ranger General soul fragment. "This is beyond life and death, this was the only path to true freedom! How can you not see that?!"
Those two lines show, that it was a necessary evil in her eyes to reach so much more important things. It's like bomarding a nation to stop a tyrannic regime. It that good? No. Is there any other way to stop that tyranny if it doesn't listen to words? Sadly also no. And of course many innocent will die - what, don't forget, got a completely different meaning in that fantasy setting than in RL anyway. They KNOW that death is not the end. People in RL would care (even) less about death if the knew that an afterlife was a thing - though maybe just be scared to death if they knew that it would include hell or overall be like the Shadowlands before Sylvanas' doing, since for majority of peopel (who wouldn't go to Bastion or Ardenweald) it would be an eternal nightmare.
I also don't think that Anduin got her. He found a painful point and pushed it, sure. But this wasn't about justifying anything for Sylvanas. They needed him to get the seal from Bastion at least, someone who was able to get close enough to the Archon. That's why Sylvanas wanted Anduin to help out of free will. Because he is also wrong about her having all the power. She doesn't at all. She's a general - but Zovaal is a god and it was clear for her, that this god would just force Anduin to do what needs to be done. She simply tries over and over again that Anduin understands this AND understand that by all brutal deeds, her goal isn't an evil one at all.
The way Anduin speaks later, after being dominated, even seems to make clear, that he understands this, because when he talks to Sylvanas after that, his fears are not about reaching the goal, his fears are about that there would be nothing left of him then (by the way something that Sylvanas wanted to avoid, that's why she preached to him over and over again to help willingly, until Zovaal told her that it's enough, he will now force Anduin to help).
I wish what was in the book was in game. She saw her little brother in Anduin. She did not want to see Anduin dominated, wanting him to switch sides willingly. Her motivation was because her family and her and Nathanos may not get to be together because of how the Shadowlands functions. It almost humanizes her.
she is humanized now, but that far from redeems her, it at least answers some questions and helps us to understand why she did what she did.
Just so you are aware, this is why in the new cinematic for Wow, Anduin feels so much regret of what "he has done... what he has seen". And that he has no more light.
Every word Blizzard uses in these cinematics is deliberate. Food for thought…
When questing in early Forsaken zones, it becomes apparent that they have severly embraced their loss of humanity to the point that they have lost empathy or even a mote of sympathy. It feels forced... like if they chose to find any positive emotion again they could be harmed should the inevitable hand of fate bring its toll. It's a very obvious trauma response. Not just with Sylvanas flinching here, but you can see it in a few quests with other Forsaken.
I hope with Calia Menethil and Lilian Voss leading The Forsaken now, there could bring about some healing going forward.
People keep saying that Arthas was innocent, but while he had good intentions, he made mistakes, thought only he knew how to fix things, long before he even touched Frostmourne. And even then, many of his decisions remained his own, the corruption merely amplifying his flawed reasoning.
Many Anduin things mirror moments in the story of Arthas (e.g. raising the sword in the War Within cinematic) but where Arthas went with his first instinct or made outright bad decisions, Anduin instead reacts more nuanced, more reasonable.
When the jailer said "We were not meant to be chained" in his pitch to Sylvannas, he was talking about the royal We. ... not her. And she didnt get it. He was always about control, domination. He thinks he has more purpose than anything else in the cosmos. Sort of like all the other cosmic forces.
The thing is that Zovaal is brutally distorted.
Sylvanas knows that very well, because she is also not what she had been and knows how it is to be despised by that alone.
Zovaal was the first one went against the system, long before she was even born. And the other death gods created domination magic to rip out part of his soul and chain him.
It's not hard to see how she sees the other death gods as the evil guys and real culprits. Even the domination magic Zovaal uses is just as she for example uses her Banshee powers to fight. Not a weapon of her choice, but a weapon she got by her distortion at the hand of her enemies.
And sorry, but I could have easily went that way, that Zovaal just didn't betray her and everthing wents fine, but then the player character would have been on the bad and losing side, so, yeah...
After killing, Anduin resurfaced for a second, you can see it. He was always in there, fighting, but control magic is horrifying like that. You are always there, watching yourself do this bad shit,
But yeah, Blizz needs to stop putting major story beats only in the books, sadly. She genuinely sees her younger brother, pre banshee queen, in Anduin
#Trend #Sassduin
I like your commentary, but could you not stop every 3 seconds it keeps getting really annoying. Hardly watchable. Maybe do bigger skips and then comment.
Was still very good to run like podcast style in the background, but as video it's struggle.
THEN DO NOT WATCH, Find some other channel you enjoy more - there are plenty.. It is the height of arrogance and bad manners to demand someone adjust their core style on THEIR channel to your personal preference. Someone (YOU) needs an ass whooping to get an attitude check.