I watched guys do this by hand at Williamsburg. They pulled and pushed a rod, the handles of which rode between guides that established the twist of each cut. They said the old octagonal barrels established the “indexing.” Cut one groove to satisfaction, lock the barrel into the vise on the next flat sides, and cut another groove. Octagons always have two flat (parallel) faces on opposing sides.
This machine made the USA into the leading arms manufacturer in its day and was far ahead of its time in design. It also helped the North in civil war to beat the South. The south did however get hold of a number of these machines that the North tried to destroy to prevent them from falling into South hands. The design of this machine was so far advanced that it is still valid today as a cut rifling machine.
There is a really primitive rifling machine at the John M Browning museum that he used. It was made from a log with rifling type notches cut on the outside of it and a steel rod with a cutter attached to the end. He just pushed and pulled the log back and forth with a handle and the cuts in the log made it twist. Pretty neat stuff.
Has anyone out there thaught about the fact that Pratt and Whitney made a copy of this very machine and that this design is still used today for cut rifling. What does that say about the intelligence of our fore fathers?
You have broaching, in which all groves are cut at the same time with a broach; button rifling, in which a button is pushed/pulled trough the barrel, pressing the grooves and lands into the inside; hammer forging, in which a mandrel with the "inverted" rifling is used to forge the barrel and flow forming, in which extreme pressures force the metal to "flow" around a mandrel with the reverse rifling.
The only exceptions are: in the inset it shows the barrel turning rather than the cutter. This is so you can see the cutter cutting, which would be difficult if the cutter were shown turning. The indexing gear on the bump stop shows to turn on each stroke. The wedge should drop the cutter on the return stroke to prevent galling, it hits the bump stop to return it to the raised position for the next cut. The index pawl should index the bump stop only once in a complete rotation of the barrel.
Extremely important! Machines must be created so that they can never ever be regulated by any gov. This is going to be my main goal from now on. I hope it is yours as well. My so-called gov. In Sweden tried to regulate the machines used in the manufacture of guns. And guess what. Seconds after writing this I found a way to make rifling an integral part of a lathe which can never be regulated.
This is a very nice video that shows how to rifle a barrel, another way is to insert a shaped rod and hammer the outside of the barrel while the metal is hot, this will rifle and also harden the barrel at the same time
At 28 seconds the cutter spirals within the barrel. At 1:28 the barrel revolves around the cutter. Watch the cutter, the position remains the same, always at top center.
The animation is not wrong, that is what the machine did and how it worked. Yes the final cut will be slightly deeper than the others but only slightly as it takes many many strokes to complete the rifling and the advance on the cutting tool is very, very small. Certainly not "five times as deep".
Watch the machine before the close up pictures. The cutter spirals within the barrel. When the closeup is shown further on in the film, the cutter slides back and forth and the barrel rotates. One or the other is incorrect.
it might be to press the wedge further back to make the cutter cut deeper, like on a second rotation you adjust the machine and make it bump. As for what it actually does, I might be close or I might be no where near on my assumptions.
Incredible! Just a bit confused that the bump stop advances on every stroke. I would think the bump stop would only advance once for every 360 degrees of revaluation of the barrel .
Why is the cutting blade in line with the barrel and not rotated slightly to be in line with the groove it's cutting? Wouldn't this have resulted in a smoother cut?
Good catch. I think that it is in line with the groove, it just seems hard to see it that way since it is twisting. If that makes sense. I could be wrong.
@@HyperionBadger I think you may be correct. If you stop the video at 0:56 you can see that the cutting blade is not perfectly aligned with the barrel. The amount of rotation required would be very small, somewhere in the region of 3%, so difficult to see. Those old timers obviously knew what they were doing.
So the the cutter is wedged deeper with every stroke, the barrel is indexed with every stroke and thus with every stroke a new groove is cut slightly deeper than the one before. How come all the grooves end up the same depth?
If the sine bar had a curved shape, then the speed of rotation of the bullet could be increased along the barrel, which would have ballistic advantages. One could try for example a parabolic or exponential curve, in both cases starting with a zero slope. What do you think?
The bump stop pushes the wedge deeper into the rotatating cutter extending the cutter out to cut the groves deeper, but the animation is wrong. It shows the bump stop advancing the cutter with every stroke of the cutter, when it should only vadvance the cutter once every five advances of the barrel, otherwise the cut would be five times deeper on the fith groove as the first.
Good, is it possible to get the blueprints of this design? I am a fan of weapons and also a student of Inventor, the program with which these designs are made and I would like to be able to recreate the drawing. Thank you
Hi Alec! Not sure if we have them, but we've been checking into it. Demonstratives Inc made the video in 2012 - we're seeing if the files are ours or theirs.
Buenas, es posible conseguir los planos de este diseño? Soy un aficionado a las armas y también estudiante de Inventor, el programa con el que se hacen estos diseños y me gustaría poder recrear el dibujo. Gracias
it depends on many factors. If you reciprocate very quickly, and place a high resistive force on the cutting edge, you can get it done pretty quick. But you have to deal with the heating issue.
nope... imagine yourself locked to the cutter. then the barrel would seems to rotate but in reality its the cutter turning.. so its right. part from the pistol
I'm looking for the plant this machine can help me? thank you for your help Didier of France bonjour je recherche les plant de cette machine qui peux m'aider ? a les trouver merci a tous cordialement didier
He is not wrong but can be done at home with a DIY machine that fits your application and since you build it then you are ultimately in charge of the size of the machine.
I always wondered how they rifled barrels...this is an excellent video, thanks!
That makes the 2 of us!
I watched guys do this by hand at Williamsburg. They pulled and pushed a rod, the handles of which rode between guides that established the twist of each cut. They said the old octagonal barrels established the “indexing.” Cut one groove to satisfaction, lock the barrel into the vise on the next flat sides, and cut another groove. Octagons always have two flat (parallel) faces on opposing sides.
This machine made the USA into the leading arms manufacturer in its day and was far ahead of its time in design. It also helped the North in civil war to beat the South. The south did however get hold of a number of these machines that the North tried to destroy to prevent them from falling into South hands. The design of this machine was so far advanced that it is still valid today as a cut rifling machine.
amazing video, no audio needed, but shows you exactly in detail how the process is done.
There is a really primitive rifling machine at the John M Browning museum that he used. It was made from a log with rifling type notches cut on the outside of it and a steel rod with a cutter attached to the end. He just pushed and pulled the log back and forth with a handle and the cuts in the log made it twist. Pretty neat stuff.
Has anyone out there thaught about the fact that Pratt and Whitney made a copy of this very machine and that this design is still used today for cut rifling. What does that say about the intelligence of our fore fathers?
And where did pyramids come from? People!
Seldom I have seen a more sophisticated animation film of a machine. Great job!
You have broaching, in which all groves are cut at the same time with a broach; button rifling, in which a button is pushed/pulled trough the barrel, pressing the grooves and lands into the inside; hammer forging, in which a mandrel with the "inverted" rifling is used to forge the barrel and flow forming, in which extreme pressures force the metal to "flow" around a mandrel with the reverse rifling.
This is a fascinating animation of how rifling used to be cut into firearm barrels providing the necessary twist for bullet stability.
The best rifle manufacturers are still using such machines. They provide the best precision. Look at Schultz & Larsen :D
The only exceptions are: in the inset it shows the barrel turning rather than the cutter. This is so you can see the cutter cutting, which would be difficult if the cutter were shown turning. The indexing gear on the bump stop shows to turn on each stroke. The wedge should drop the cutter on the return stroke to prevent galling, it hits the bump stop to return it to the raised position for the next cut. The index pawl should index the bump stop only once in a complete rotation of the barrel.
Very fascinating illustration of what was possible even in old times!
gun manufacturing is essentially the birth of modern machining
Extremely important! Machines must be created so that they can never ever be regulated by any gov. This is going to be my main goal from now on. I hope it is yours as well. My so-called gov. In Sweden tried to regulate the machines used in the manufacture of guns. And guess what. Seconds after writing this I found a way to make rifling an integral part of a lathe which can never be regulated.
Thank you for your video it's really interesting I've always wondered how this was done especially years ago it's like a lost art to me
wow, wow, wow, that was a great visualization of the 1853 technology. Wow, how in the world did they think that bit of machinery up...
ingenious
Those old geezers really knew their stuff
will have to stop by and see this museum this spring. :D
This is a very nice video that shows how to rifle a barrel, another way is to insert a shaped rod and hammer the outside of the barrel while the metal is hot, this will rifle and also harden the barrel at the same time
" Now, here my quest comes to an end ".
Thanks buddy.
Old comment, but rifling buttons make it possible with a press.
At 28 seconds the cutter spirals within the barrel. At 1:28 the barrel revolves around the cutter. Watch the cutter, the position remains the same, always at top center.
Incredible explanation/animation!
Really an ingenious design for the time.
That's just cool! Explains alot. Thanks for sharing. Earl
very cool and complete illustration... Thanks.
The animation is not wrong, that is what the machine did and how it worked. Yes the final cut will be slightly deeper than the others but only slightly as it takes many many strokes to complete the rifling and the advance on the cutting tool is very, very small. Certainly not "five times as deep".
The bump stop is advanced manually after 1-2 passes in each groove typically.
what does the bump stop do? aside from bumping and stopping.
oh wait nvm figured it out lol. it advances the wedge which moves the "cutter" as this calls it.
i think it puts cutter at same exact place,and after a while i t advances to even the cutting action with wear in the cutting blde. but idk
Watch the machine before the close up pictures. The cutter spirals within the barrel. When the closeup is shown further on in the film, the cutter slides back and forth and the barrel rotates. One or the other is incorrect.
Really awsome!! always wondered how they made such a difficult cut, it shure as hell cant be dont on a lathe of any kind
VERY cool mechanic i love it :) .....nice Regards from north Germany
it might be to press the wedge further back to make the cutter cut deeper, like on a second rotation you adjust the machine and make it bump. As for what it actually does, I might be close or I might be no where near on my assumptions.
Incredible! Just a bit confused that the bump stop advances on every stroke. I would think the bump stop would only advance once for every 360 degrees of revaluation of the barrel
.
A very clever little machine!
the state of art before cnc era... gret video !
こうっやってライフリングを刻むんですね。
わかりやすい動画で良く理解できました。
ありがとう。
Japão
Why is the cutting blade in line with the barrel and not rotated slightly to be in line with the groove it's cutting? Wouldn't this have resulted in a smoother cut?
Good catch. I think that it is in line with the groove, it just seems hard to see it that way since it is twisting. If that makes sense. I could be wrong.
@@HyperionBadger I think you may be correct. If you stop the video at 0:56 you can see that the cutting blade is not perfectly aligned with the barrel. The amount of rotation required would be very small, somewhere in the region of 3%, so difficult to see. Those old timers obviously knew what they were doing.
Fantastic
So the the cutter is wedged deeper with every stroke, the barrel is indexed with every stroke and thus with every stroke a new groove is cut slightly deeper than the one before. How come all the grooves end up the same depth?
Your close up is incorrect. The barrel does not rotate around the cutter to cut the rifling. The cutter spirals within the barrel.
Very, very very interesting this video. This is old mechanism.
It's amazing how much simpler servos can make a mechanical machine lol
This is similar to how threads used to be cut for screws but not as complicated.
if the cemera is lock to the cutter then the close up is correct.. BUT the rifled pistol barrel is not
Another way is to push a button through, much simple but it has it's limits.
This may be the most ineffecient way.. but for a basement DIY guy this is prob. the easiest way to make a rifling machine by yourself. =)
If the sine bar had a curved shape, then the speed of rotation of the bullet could be increased along the barrel, which would have ballistic advantages.
One could try for example a parabolic or exponential curve, in both cases starting with a zero slope.
What do you think?
It should cut each groove with one depth until barrel has made one full turn and only then the depth of a cut should increase.
so how many cycles does it generally take to finish 1 barrel? Also is the inside of the barrel polished after cutting?
The bump stop pushes the wedge deeper into the rotatating cutter extending the cutter out to cut the groves deeper, but the animation is wrong. It shows the bump stop advancing the cutter with every stroke of the cutter, when it should only vadvance the cutter once every five advances of the barrel, otherwise the cut would be five times deeper on the fith groove as the first.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Forgot the where the rifling bites the bullet and leaves grooves behind.
Hi from france, great vid ! Thanks . Wow !!!!
amazing!!!
amazing!!!
rifling like a BOSS.
Great video mate well made!
tiger is
good tank
Didnt expect to find an odball comment here
+Matt Dickens
Well it's a mother beautiful video so why not baby?
Cool video what program animated it. Well made.
رائع جدا السهل الممتنع
Good, is it possible to get the blueprints of this design? I am a fan of weapons and also a student of Inventor, the program with which these designs are made and I would like to be able to recreate the drawing. Thank you
can you recommend a site that i could learn more about this process?
could you do the same with cold forging machine for barrels
No, but I am thinking of building one of these machines and I will correct the problems and post the results someday.
V nice....plz make a video how rifling done using mandrel....
How can I buy an Android app version of this video?
Нарезы должны быть в 3-4 раза шире.
very cool
Hi do u have plans si I can build one of these or can I buy your 3d modelling
can someone explain the bump stop to me as this is the part that i cant figure out its purpose
Would it be possible to get the cad files for this machine?
Hi Alec! Not sure if we have them, but we've been checking into it. Demonstratives Inc made the video in 2012 - we're seeing if the files are ours or theirs.
Buenas, es posible conseguir los planos de este diseño? Soy un aficionado a las armas y también estudiante de Inventor, el programa con el que se hacen estos diseños y me gustaría poder recrear el dibujo. Gracias
Now, all I need to know is where do I get one?
every day I'm rifling!
Very informative
the bullet spins in the other side than the rifling was
yeah i'll give you that much and its not letting me post the link ???
how many hours does this process take?
it depends on many factors. If you reciprocate very quickly, and place a high resistive force on the cutting edge, you can get it done pretty quick. But you have to deal with the heating issue.
Today modern gun barrels are rifled exactly the opposite , it's the small vortex teeth that pop out not the big ones....
terrific viedo！
like it :D
nope... imagine yourself locked to the cutter. then the barrel would seems to rotate but in reality its the cutter turning.. so its right. part from the pistol
Would be nice if you could inform us of those better ways.
I'm looking for the plant this machine can help me?
thank you for your help
Didier of France
bonjour
je recherche les plant de cette machine qui peux m'aider ?
a les trouver merci a tous
cordialement
didier
اريد شراء الماكينه اين توجد
Nice
I'm more interested in removing the riifling in my barrel
what if i wanted to rifle a barrel with length of 30cm??
big machine
hmmm ok thanks
He is not wrong but can be done at home with a DIY machine that fits your application and since you build it then you are ultimately in charge of the size of the machine.
I want one
cheers =)
very appoporate names for each part.
hammer forging for the win!
genius!!
Well I'll be dipped in dog shit!
You smell like it already.
Mauser barer is the best
Germans developed spiraling tech .
Really how about Archimedes?
Yann Kitson I guess Archimedes was german...lol
Ha ha yes he must have been :D
Sounds like he was husband of Mercedes ? LoL
this is the most innefficient way to rifle a barrel there are a couple of other ways
amazing!!!
amazing!!!