Nelson Pass Class A vs Class AB amplifier (3-song comparison)
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- Speakers: Dali Rubicon 2
DAC : Schiit Modi Multibit 2
Class A Amp : Nelson Pass Amp Camp Amp
Class AB Amp : Onkyo A-9150
Folk / Male Vocals : Onkyo 0:00, Class A 00:37
Blues / Female Vocals : Onkyo 1:15, Class A 1:51
Dynamics : Onkyo 2:29, Class A 3:22
![Sean Rii, Karyon, Sharzkii - Taungule [My Love] (Official Music Video)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eJoMuypbSzQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Folk / Male Vocals : Onkyo 0:00, Class A 00:37
Blues / Female Vocals : Onkyo 1:15, Class A 1:51
Dynamics : Onkyo 2:29, Class A 3:22
Listen to the space between the snare hits with the Onkyo Class AB, there seems to be no "volume collapse" or "gating," etc. The level stays strong, it really pushes out all of the transients as the snare wires rattle off. But at the same time, it doesn't leave as much room, volume wise, for the Toms which come in next.
The Pass class A seems to return to neutral crossing a little quicker here, taking some of the snare wire rattle off as it does so, but leaves a huge sound space for the Toms to hit next, increasing their punch almost like a soft threshold limiter (or a Current Limiter!).
I may be biased here, as a musician I prefer to listen to the instruments playing the song, it inspires me to write my own music.
But if the emotions of the vocalists performance are what moves your body to a song, then by all means choose the Amp that suits your passion!
And remember if you're singing along to your songs, then does it really matter how expensive your perfection has cost?
Cheers
Awesome recording and comparison. I am most impressed with the sound of your Dali loudspeakers!
Terrible music selection.
Terrible editing.
Proves nothing.
Σιγά τα καλά ηχεία τα Dali μάπα είναι χάλια σαν τα kef τιποτα. Morel
What a Video Man, You killed it awesome just Awesome
Great sound clips. Thanks for posting
thanks for that.. this is what i have been wanting to hear
This video is far more awesome than I could have think of finding here. Now there is no doubt I am going to finish my powerful class A amplifier proudly. Thanks a lot!!!
Glad I could help!
Help me build one man. Where to begin and how to begin.
And You've disowned your comments.
Ive built one class a using toshiba 2sc5200 double transistor. Best decision of my life.
and i am continuously improving my design every day.
now my amp does not produce much heat and no need bulky heatsink but still great sound output.
Listened to this again. In the third song, the Onkyo amp has a lot more "punch" to the bass. I could live with either of these. Onkyo is a good brand that is little known these days in the United States. Those speakers are unbelievable though. They seem really transparent in this RUclips comparison. If I can tell the difference after RUclips processes these files, I bet they sound incredible in person. In general, I want to hear the music and not the "speaker." Good video. Definitely worth watching.
No amount of thanks is enough for the effort you put to make this video........ still many many thanks, for me it shows quiet a difference........ using a decent r2r DAC, Class A headphone Amp and Sennheiser combo is giving me good reason to stick with Class A.......it's more emotional and smooth with out sacrificing details, more live and more real. It's a one way journey towards Class A and be settled.
thanks! ahh yes R2R dacs and Class A amps among the best ive ever heard regardless of price point.
Wrong.
You don't have a reason for judgement.
You don't have a community.
Valve amplifiers give short run times.
Cold amplifiers take forever to warm up to operating temperature, but offer hours of run times.
Basicly, there's clearly a distortion wave right in the middle of the sound out of valve amplifiers.
So some male perfectionist turned the design into a vertical amplifier design and fixed the problem.
This Results in ZERO distortion.
Give yourself a couple of slaps for your behaviour.
I have the ACA , and also the F5 , going to build F7 . Well ACA is one of the more pleasing amplifiers that I know around ( and I can listen music with it forever , day and night lol ) - even if it has "only" 5 watts . Nice Video Thanks
Get the 24v power supply for it. Run a pair in balances mono at 15w. They're waaaaay better. Love mine
These amps are good in stereo you obviously hear it. But? They are absolutely amazing ran as balanced monoblocs
@mykeldg thank you.
Loved this. Lots of people favoured the ACA but there wasn't much in it for me. I am using 200W class D monos to drive the Rubicon 2s and have been thinking to build a pair of ACA's to use as class A monos. Steve Guithenberg (Audiophiliac) did a video where he said running ACA's as monos pushing 8 WPC sounded significantly better than single ACA pushing 5 WPC.
I presume this was single ACA pushing 5 WPC and it sounded pretty damn good to me!
Did you build the ACA yourself and was that as straightforward as everyone says it is?
great video. Thank you.
Confermo ancora una volta il mio parere sull'Onkyo a9150. Un amplificatore straordinario, assolutamente fuori dalla sua classe di prezzo e di molte altre presunte superiori. Sotto ogni aspetto. Fuoco scenico e strumentale. Correttezza timbrica. Dinamica e senso materico. Non ho mai incontrato un amplificatore a questo prezzo in grado di confrontarsi positivamente con elettroniche blasonate e super costose, con un riferimento generale e non rivolto specificatamente al Pass Class A, che non rientra nel novero dei costosi ma che gode comunque di non poca considerazione. Nei confronti quasi imbarazzanti sono stati coinvolti marchi audiofili come Schiit Audio, con Aegir e Ragnarok, Roksan ed altri. Un miracolo progettuale che racchiude competenza e maturità sonora. Una gemma rara dal valore unico, se compreso. Sento di ringraziare Mykeldg per aver dato a molti la possibilità di conoscerlo, con test audio molto attendibili e rivelatori. Queste restano considerazioni assolutamente personali, come quasi sempre in campo audio, a livello di valutazione e percezione del suono. Un saluto
The BEST, Nelson pasa clase A. For me.
Hi my friend i wanted to know if i can use any preamplifier for the amp camp.
what is the 3rd song DYNAMICS? Please provide more details.
Wow, that is noticable. I need one 😁
No matter how many watts you got, it's the first watt that counts.
Nelson pass ,fab Choice !! 👍
its just the Pass DIY kit, but as you can hear, its pretty impressive for a DIY 5-watt amp.
What exactly is the name of song 3 in line DYNAMICS?
Yes I would like to know me too what is the title of the 3th track
Makes me want to get out again for live music in small venues.
Detail and softness are more pronounced in Class A
Hi all.. The Pass labs for me every time.. They sound like a SET amplifier . I use two mono block Zens'.. The best I've heard yet. The Onkyo has more Slam for sure.
What is name off the first song?
Class AB sounds like a request but class A sounds like a command, even in the comparison of the dynamics it shows the lack of wattage but what an authority!
Wrong.
You've come from nowhere.
I don't allow introductions.
What are the songs in this
Both have different pros and cons depending on what music you are listening. Class A gives you a more solid sustaining music flow, but weaker dynamics. Good for easy listening in a private environment. Class AB is the other way round. Sound a bit hollow but good dynamics. However some high end AB amplifiers are tuned with more class A for the first 10 watts, fetching more money of course.
exactly this!
Anybody knows what is the song used for the dynamics section? Thanks.
Hugo Balboa that is the focal test track. This is the exact video i used ruclips.net/video/1ibR1E8i8lI/видео.html
Hard to distinguish between the two .. but it seems at least from this video that the Pass amp sounds a tad better
Was a subwoofer used? I have pretty good computer speakers and for those speakers to only have (what appears to be) an 8 inch woofer, the bass response is incredible with those...again, provided no subwoofer was used. As it is, the punchy sound I was getting (through my computer speakers) seems a bit hard to believe for an amplifier that only puts out 5 watts a channel.
No sub. And only 6.5” woofers.
@@mykeldg That's pretty impressive as those woofers sound larger. Granted it could be my computer system exaggerating things and it could be a reflection on how good your recording equipment is to get that kind of bass response. Still, on my end, with my system it sounds pretty darn impressive. With the power output of the Onkyo, it is more expected, but I was completely shocked with the Pass amplifier, especially with the dynamic piece at the end. Further the 1w/1m spec on that speaker is only 87db SPL. Generally not impressive for low powered amps, but it seems to sound fine at the level you were driving it and it was enough of a level that I could hear the room reflections. So if it sounds this impressive on my computer system, via a RUclips stream, I could only imagine what those speakers sound like in person. While I have heard of the company Rubicon before, sadly, their high cost has kept me away. Anyway, nice comparison and I am equally impressed with the way the ACA amplifier performs given its low power design.
Both are good.
I slightly prefer the class AB but it's a close call
Hi, I'm from Spain, with what microphone is it recorded that sounds so good
You would be surprised to know its just the binaural mic builtin to the iphone XS. I think its also because of the speakers, The rubicons has great soundstage / wide dispersion tweeter that is so lively and fun.
Nelson Pass Class A obviously wins the competition.
Thank you for the video. Ignoring sound quality differences, is the 5 watt A really as loud as a 60 watt AB?
no the 5 watt is almost on full volume. the 60w is barely half in volume pot
I am not going to argue. It is a Nelson Pass 5W. My suggestion is to have two more speakers for the test. It could be that NP 5W has an edge because it was a match with the pair of speakers used for testing. So to avoid that, have another pair for testing. 👌👍
History has been written and you're not allowed to rewrite it.
Shut up little kids and go away.
Give yourself a smack and a face slap for your behaviour.
In person, do you hear much distortion, if any, with the Nelson Pass amp?
Not much or maybe a bit. I guess if I listened intently, I can feel like there is some tube-like qualities.
oh wow nice sound O.O
Hey...great to catch up on your videos!!!! Wondering if you know if it is possible to run a powered sub woofer off the 9150?
G Alessi yes you can use the pre-outs.
@@mykeldg Thanks!!!... Just got an ifi zen dac....but in running my imac into it, and then rca out to the 9150 line in......the volume is really cut in half of when I use the optical out from the imac into the optical in on the 9150.I have checked my imac output settings...and my itune settings....can' t quite figure it out, unless the imac usb outs are just wierd? Do you notice any difference usi g usb out on any of your dacs?
And sorry to bother you about that dsc question...it turns out thete is a switch on the back of the dac for choosing to use it az a dac or a headphone amp ...and i had forgotton to switch it back.thanks g
@@galessi1226 sorry I didnt see this earlier. How is the zen dac's dac section--do you like them?(say compared to the onboard 9150 dac) im curious about the burrbrown sound. Its the only had chip I havent tried yet.
Thanks....I will let you know when I ever get some decent speakers....can' t tell any difference on these sony mini system speakers.I got the zen dac for less than 50 per cent retail...so i jumped.....still saving for speakers!!!...But have some hifiman headphones 400s that are really nice...
You are all saying which one sounds better but the fact is it depends on what DAC you are using, what amplifier, and what speakers or headphones too.
And let's not forget the lossy compression that is used on RUclips videos.
no objections here! these vids are just for fun and I definitely would not use it as decision making tool.
maybe i will get lucky and find one at the Goodwill store?
I have Pass xa30.8 myself, which I love a lot, but to me that Onkyo sounded richer and had better dynamics. That 5W sounded dry and lacking "authority".
Did you build that 5W amp yourself? I was thinking of doing it too, but maybe better to have two mono amps.
Build two, you won't regret it.
@@JD-lk7im Thanks buddy.
I forgot to mention the Pass B1 buffer preamp circuit.. Works a treat with the power amps.. All the best mate.
Pass amp sounded compressed, muddy and about as bad as amp can sound..
The Onkyo sounds damn good. Clean, open, and plenty of slam.
The Onkyo seems a little like syrup. Somehow slightly sticky sounding. The ACA just seems more "open" and "airy" in some sort of way.
Hmm, not sure sure about this. The Onkyo sounded a bit fuller to me. The Pass amp sounded crisper. Hard to pick one over the other...
Попробуйте Chord hugo
Was this amp hard to build?
I’ve built and own two Amp Camp Amps. If you can reliably solder and follow simple instructions, building this amp is quite easy. They make a good first time project.
Differences for every songs are real.
When you use class A SE amp to power youre dt 990 pro headset(250ohm) it is clear for my opinion, that 5w ACA amp is winner, however what you want is going to make a hard desision between them, because speakers and youre own ears are the best judges here and there. :)
Its amazing to me that your cell phone is sensitive enough to record the subtle differences of the amplifiers. To me the class A sounds fuller and closer to a live performance.
That’s exactly what I thought. I was amazed to here a difference and it was just coming from my TV speakers. The ACA sounded better to me. I might have to build a couple of these. I just wished there was an option for a toroidal transformer instead of the power brick.
Merry Christmas!
It has nothing to do with that.
Give yourself a smak.
Men are world famous perfectionists.
They noticed a fault and fixed it.
You don't get to judge.
Give yourself another smack for that.
@@dreyn7780 Sorry life hasn't worked out for you...but keep it inside. Butch up.
@@JACKnJESUS What's butch up?
I'll help you jack or Jesus.
Anger is ultimately self destroying.
Now there's billions of people, feelings are a waste of time.
Humanity IS evolving to not have emotions.
So sorry doesn't exist anymore.
Worked out has no meaning.
Instruction doesn't work anymore.
Now you're reported.
How was this recorded?
nothing special, its just binaural mic connected to iphone. its not as detailed as it is in real life.
Class A is incomparable (except tube amp). But it depends on who & how the circuit was designed... I'm agree with u!
You're obviously wrong.
Its a much better vertical amplifier.
Dali Rubicon 2 have 87dB/1W sensitivity; using a 5W amplifier with them is punitive for the amp. The ACA should be used with speakers in the 96dB/1W area. This notwithstanding, the ACA sound very fine.
yes you are right
Wow. It is subtle but the class A has better detail and texture than the class AB, the most significant difference surprisingly was in the drum solo, the class A has such authority and punch!
Thanks for the test!!
The Nelson Pass class A has the treble laid back a bit, you could play it all day. The Onkyo has more bass and treble. I feel I still prefer the Onkyo. Great test... Thanks
Yup, the Class AB is still more Dynamic and cleaner. That said, the class A is a 5-watt DIY amp so maybe the real Class A amps with higher power will perform even better.
ye Onkyo sound better through youtube
What ears do you have?? Nelson Pass Class A obviously wins the competition.
@@mykeldg it’s hard to get high wattage from Class A amps though because they run so hot and require huge heat sinks.
Class A is best for small rooms and moderate listening levels. Better to use high sensitivity speakers too.
For your opinion who have more power , there is clearly sound different , they both sound good, if I need to choose I think the class a will less tired me
I was surprised with the result. The Class A is only 5 watts but it seems it is able to keep up with the 60-watt amp even on the dynamic track albeit it was almost max volume. Goes to show that power isn't everything and Amplifier Design is more important. I also find that the Class A sounds sweeter, more open and more engaging. Its not as Dynamic & clean but it gives a larger soundstage, microdynamics/textures and are indeed less fatiguing. Vocals are more solid as well.
@Drew Hong couple with Korg Nutube pre-amp for huge soundstage
@@mykeldg that's my belief too, put that onkyo against a pass a3 with 30 watts per channel it will blow that onkyo away and its the same price or less as a diy kit
Both are beautiful. I liked the Nelson Pass 5w better.
Ahhhgggh 😬😬 between this and DAC opacity, sound stage, brightness, open cup headphones with a non v frequency response I am going bonkers that's before we get started on class D amplifiers
Lol relax. If you’re starting out, just get the best speakers you can afford (maybe 80-90% of your budget) and only then upgrade your amp, then the dac. I once had it reversed and learned the hard way. I later found out, no amount of expensive electronics can fix a speaker you don’t like. Also dont listen to people who judge amps by watts. You can hear from this video a 5 watt diy amp can sound great!
The win is class A!!!
From this video, I vote for onkyo amp for better performance.
5 Watts more warm sound and good midrange (lack of punch but OK overall)
How hot does the class A amp gets ?
yes extremely hot (considering its 5W/8W) its like a heater probably reaches 75C or higher. If you live in a tropical climate, its not practical.
@@mykeldg haha as expected!
@@hansiangng2808 Usually PASS designs aim for 55c on the heastinks.
I live in a tropical country with no A/C. Ambient temp in my living room is probably 31-35c. I heard the ACA is around 50c in other countries.
@nimophile sg gang
Onlkyo has more bass for sure and a overall warmer tone, the Pass sounds bright.
For those who want thick bass, this A class seems to be good, and for those who want resolution, this AB class seems to be good.
WHAT????? the clarity of the class A was in another level. the rapid drumming was mushed over by the AB and was CLEAN and detailed with the A... listen again
@@chrisbarnhart7944 This AB class has a feeling of air. A-class vocals are thicker.
@@yorknene3205 lots of detail is glossed over with the onkyo where the pass is VERY clear and detailed. pass outclasses.
@@chrisbarnhart7944 lol I mean this just goes to show you that expectation bias is playing a huge role here. People hear what they want to hear. Telling the difference through RUclips compression is hilarious
muddy bass you mean
and I am listening on the amp I have built completely from scratch.
A= beautiful AB =wide range
ruclips.net/video/86gKG_m_x74/видео.html μόνο τάξη A
Listening this through a class d amplifier that has no lpf at the output 😂
I wish I could put my finger on why I like the ACA, but I do.
ACA sounds more neutral and faithful reproduce to the recording( this is what i thought it sound like) Onkyo sounds exciting but fatigue seed in. A high gain pre amp may alter the sound of ACA.
we share the same observations. if there is one thing to add, the onkyo being the more powerful & cleaner measuring amp will sound more dynamic & cleaner.
i hooked ACA To a tube preamp and it sounds even better.
ACA Amp sounds way better now that I have listened with proper headphones.
The thing about these comparisons, and which sounds better, it's a matter of preference. The person spending the money decides which one suits their ear. In my opinion, there is no winner or loser.
Do you guys know that this comparison is against a pretty ordinary 60 watts Onkyo amp?? The ACA may sound better, but not millions away from it.
I am a firm advocate of class AB amps. Properly designed, AB's sound awesome.
I made a comparison of the this Onkyo 9150 amp against a $4000 Class AB Roksan Blak. you would be surprised how the Onkyo did not embarrass itself. That said, the ACA is a fun little DIY Class A amp. Imagine how a non DIY, well designed Class A can sound.
@@mykeldg no doubt that class A amps sound good, but at power consumption expenses. Very dynamic AB amps are also possible.
Class AB for a week，Class A for years
I remember designing class A and AB at university. Perhaps I should have turned that knowledge into a commercial product and become a millionaire...
its not too late :D
Onkio kao da svira iza zavese u odnosu na Pass..
_The pass has definitely passed the test and won it_
Time for schiit aegir !
I was surprised how close it was, for me. For my £, I'd go Onkyo.
The nelson pass is a cheaper diy kit i think $350 though you might have to factor in preamp and labor to build it. Impressive kit for the price
Yeah, the little ACA sounds way better
Track 1: class A has a much lighter touch, with a smooth, low-grain flow and ease.
Track 2: Class A just nails this... Other than live at the bar, drink in hand loudness and transient attack, I don't know what more there is to want... And that's with speakers that likely aren't a great match for an 8 watt single ended class A MOSFET amplifier.
Track 3: At first, the AB looks to be better. It sounds more dynamic, and in the amplitude sense, it is. But the ACA is clearly faster on the up side of dynamic transititions, with a much more realistic downshift and decay. I'd say that the 8.7 dB difference in system gain matters a lot here, as does the amp / speaker interaction.
Still, there isn't anything that 60 watts of AB power gives me that outweighs everything I get from 8 ways of class A. Not in any sense a close call.
buy or diy a 30w class A like a pass a3, that will blow that onkyo away for the same price
Class a
These sound the same to me
5W ACA Amp still wins
Onkyo is win
Class a... no.1 oke
Class a sounds slower I prefer ab
A metallica song gets 59 million views and this guy plays unheard-of music.
The valve amplifier design must go 1st in the conparison video.
There's an obvious fault with the design.
There is no difference in sound to the ear!
Prefer onkyo
Neither is as good as the JLH 1969 I have here. The Pass is the winner except dynamics where they are better on the Onkyo. Than this JLH too.
yes probably. these 2 are just budget amps
That Onkyo was was made by the Devil himself!!
Lol
For me, not a winner just different.
AB amp sounded more rounded off, warm, smooth, soft.
Class A brighter, quicker, forward, more detailed or defined is the best way I can put it I suppose.
I'm now listening this from he6se.
Well, Pass lab is a way better, in every move. (both macro-dynamics and micro-dynamics)
Tonality is very open, yet more refined.
It's like if doing ABX comparison, everyone should note Pass has more watt :)
Not even close. So much music is missing with the Pass kit amp and what is present is noticeably muddy. Onkyo has millions of dollars of research and parts discounts to provide far better sound for the money. Thank you for exposing the emperor has no clothes. Anyone who builds this crap is a fool.
no different
ACA is a way better.... much much better
Dude, first rule of HiFi: get the speakers 4-6 feet away from the back wall!!
i would love to but 6ft would be my couch 😂
No, The manufacturer Dali said it can be within: 20~120cm
no
RT60 of your room is terrible in all the spectrum. Comparison is pointless.
No amp can fix this garbage speakers.
🤣 if the Dalis are garbage, then i’d rather listen to garbage than anything else 😂 I've had many speakers from different brands including B&W, ATC, KEF, Wharfedale and Dynaudio. None of them can touch the Rubicons for my tastes. But if you have found your favorite speakers, good for you 😀👍
@@mykeldg Did not mean to offend your dalis, its just for me ANY bookshelves are not real speakers, anything with sensitivity under 90 sounds dead. The worst junk i have right now is linn nexus ls 250, only use them in bedroom for background, because they garbage :)
@@mykeldg by the way, this chip onkio with damping factor 80 cant drive such over tight speaker in such tiny box at all.
@@leoriskind4623 hmm maybe you like alot of bass & loudness. my taste reside on rhythm & pace. I tried to like tower speakers -- to me they sound less agile & nimble as bookshelves (i.e. they do not 'disappear' in the room) and are challenging to place in a tiny space like mines. But if you have a gigantic room/home I can see why you like tower speakers. But yeah, my amp is very much outclassed by the speakers. i might try better amps soon.
@@mykeldg No, unfortunately i cant afford a house with gigantic room, and i cant afford very expensive speakers, but i know how to modify something i can get to my liking. You may want to try something like Adcom GFA-545II as power amp , keep denon as pre amp, for your dalis, its dirt chip on ebay, designed by Nelson many years ego. And if you adjust bias higher, like Nelson recommends, it will sound pretty close to A
The Pass sounded like a toy compared to the Onkyo.