Class AB vs. GaN Class D Which sounds best ?
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- The Amps we will feature are the AGD Production Audion Monoblock GaN FET Patented Class D power amplifier, vs. Jeff Rowland 625S2 High level class AB Lets see if you can tell the difference. Share your decision and explain why you chose the way you did... 00:01:26 - Sample Q
00:04:54 - Sample J
00:07:06 - Begin discussion.
Damn Gallium Nitride Transistors. Insanely fast switching speed and extremely high electron mobility. Pretty advanced stuff. They used to only be used in Lasers when they first came out. Class D amps have truly come pretty far.
You are not kidding Shayhan... They have come very far I used to be very biased against them. Thanks for your feedback
Would just like to mention that these sample tracks are some of my favorites on the planet. That is all, carry on.
Great video Mike! Love me some sample J! Open, airy, and transparent soundstage, fast and punchy, yet soft and nuanced with super grippy bass.
You can never tell by listening through the mic and RUclips, we all know what’s class D is, connect your oscilloscope and it’ll tell you right away where the real sound is and where the micro saw class D sound. Your brain is built that way to accept undistorted sound waves while class D is and will always be distorted wave and you can hear it at highs very easily, after listening to class D even ppl “without ears” complain they can’t relax and sound isn’t warm and muffled at highs. Somehow people don’t like new 4000$ advanced class D amps in their cars but prefer old school AB warm sound, have any idea why?
go to AGD production.com for the scope images . You've never seen switching mode this fast and clean..
In your opinion with your ears
Q is cleaner and lower timbre. J on first listen has more info but further listens reveal it as coloured and brightened by low level distortions.
Q has odd attack and decay and no shoutiness/blooming.
Neither is quite right but both are very good, my preference tips toward Q which I expect is the class D.
Q is Rowland AB :-)
I really think class D, has arrived and is now a serious contender in the game.
I'm digging up your comment, Yes class D has taken everything in its path, smaller, more powerful, we get an excellent sound with a good preamp, what could be better!!!
Absolutely special product here. Saw this at the Tampa audio expo and seriously considered buying this. Lots of good stuff going on.
THE AUDION” Monoblock uses the unique GaNTube™ technology with Gallium Nitride MOSFET based Power-Stage, fully enclosed in a Glass Tube. The Gallium Nitride Power MOSFETS, are the unique technology design advantage of AGD Productions, and are the key to the reference level performance of all AGD amplifiers.
Too many (tm's) too little new tech. It's just GaN that's it. And yes its better. Why use those fancy marketing names. I like scientific names better.
Mike, thanks for this eye opening experiment. Both amps sound amazing but there’s something on Sample Q that feels like it’s missing on J. I’m not sure what it is, presence / overall robustness (maybe?). I’m not sure if that’s the Class D. Regardless of which is which, kudos to this Class D amp!
Marlon Cipriano I picked J as class AB
Q had better attack, sustain and decay, i.e., a faster transient response. J sounded a fraction rounded in comparison. My guess is that Q is the AGD.
I agree with Marcin.
And I know there are far more brilliant minds than Bruno making Class D amps ...that are more spectacular than anything he developed.
Oh yes nice video comparison. 7500 is a killer deal for that level of workmanship
Hi Miki, the sound and look of the AGDs are simply amazing and intriguing. You mentioned in another video that GaNTube88s have the advantage that they do not wear out over time, as is the case with vacuum tubes. On the other hand, the capacitors of the GaNTube88 circuit board - like EL capacitors - dry out over the years, so they have to be replaced at some point. This raises the question of whether recapping is possible or whether the GaNTube88 as a whole needs to be replaced? Compared to recapping, this would inevitably lead to a very expensive refurbishment costing $3000! Many thanks in advance for your expertise.
Any EL capacitor can be replaced. So yes.. ;-)
@@OCDHIFiGuy Well, that would mean that the GaNTube88 must necessarily allow to be disassembled in order to gain access to its circuit board. Without the ability to remove the glass bulb, you will unfortunately not be able to recap the EL capacitors on its board! This leads to the simple question, if the GaNTube88 can, without risk of damage, be disassembled?
Personally if i was just starting out Class D wins.....they are both excellent but in todays world with energy the way it is the D has arrived, and the AGD's are a works of art.
Sample Q was much better. It sounds more 'natural,' has a Bigger more 3-D sound stage, more punch, and is very warm, open, and detailed simultaneously, beautiful.
Thanks for sharing!
Class D is now a serious contender
Sample J has noticeably more depth and dimension. Based on my experience, that would be the Class A/B. Correct?
Man I can’t believe how good your rig sounds ... brings tears to my eyes! They both sound frigging amazing but I’ll choose Q as the one I liked better. No idea which one is class D. Maybe it was Q.
You Prefer Jeff Rowland Class AB ! If ity brings tears to your eyes then music is important to you as you connect deeply with it , Improve your experience and put together a rig !
Hemant Ishwaran Mikey is a serious audio dude.
You’re watching a video taken on a phone or something. How can you even tell?
J had better control of the speakers. Easier to hear the effects employed by Mr Waters. The bass was the most obvious part as Q seemed underdamped. Q also sounded compressed in the midrange at times. Then again its a recording and I'm listening over youtube, my laptop headphone jack and beat up cans. I would say J sounds closer to my current AB amps and Q closer to my old Class A amps if that makes any sense. Thanks for putting up the video because I have been curious about GaN. So which is which?
Q was the best in my ears, can’t explain why 🤷♂️. That’s some really nice stuff you have. It’s amazingly beautiful to look at.
Appreciate that !
I thought the noise floor on sample J fell through the basement; it was unmistakably lower. If I had to guess I would lean toward it being the class D.
Youve got a well trained ear my friend, Thats exactly what you heard.
да, так и есть. дома стоит gan услышал его по басу. образец J
Sample Q = AB amp .... Sample J =. Class D amp. .....sample Q sound better.
Wow I got it wrong way round. Q sounded clearer but J actually had more colour and sounded more vintage I had more images in my head with the music
First example is the best by fahr..🤯😎 right?!
the second version of "Mother" sounded better to me. More emotional, dense, and natural. First one is very good but has what I call a little too much of an electronic echo to it. Maybe you could argue the second version is a little more to to the sound of the studio also? My guess is version one of "Mother" is the class AB amp.
I don’t care which was which it all sounded great Mikey!!! 😎👍🤟
I do care. I loose sleep over it
@@keesvanwoerden2156 lol Spoken like a true OCD Audiophile..
Thats the bottom line man !
hello OCD-Hifi guy,
what are your thoughts on NAD c399?
Hung
J sounds more pleasant except a not ideal bass (Q works better there). But UcD becomes closer and closer to hi-end. Faster mosfets, faster drivers, more integration stages, and they will break through.
00:01:26 - Sample Q
00:04:54 - Sample J
00:07:06 - Begins discussion.
Thanks D !
It's so hard to really make judgment on RUclips with its compression that has added to the music
What was the result of the comparison?... the 3th and 4th sample sounded more rounded and the bass came better trough, my guess is that it was the AB one
Hi Mike, did you have Rel subs in the past? I see your open baffle GR Research subs and wondering if you prefer RELs or open baffles to pair with the Maggie’s!! Thanks !
So the better looking one is the better sounding amp ? How can anyone tell listening to this video? I certainly can't, must have cloth ears 😊
00:01:26 AB
00:02:32 AB
00:03:35 D
00:04:54 D
Fun demo - thanks for this Mike
The correct grammar when comparing two things is 'which sounds better'. You use best if you compare more than two things.
Thanks man !! Ill remember that !
the purpose of class d is not to outshine the sound quality of class a/b coz its not gonna happen,the purpose of it is to sound as close to a/b without spending too much and save electricity in the long run
I wholeheartedly disagree. The purpose of class D is to push the boundary of what was achieved with A and AB, beat those designs in every way, and do it more efficiently and at less cost.
@@OCDHIFiGuy the big question is does class D outshine the class ab amp? not a chance
@@myplaguesify its clear you do not listen to the latest class Ds , they smoke the AB amps. Like clearly sound better. Why wouldnt they ? They are the current amp technology and the only one that anyone does R&D on any more. A and AB is old tech, and up till recently sounded best for HiFi. At this point, the new Gallium Nitride class D amps are the first to cross the reference set by AB.
@@OCDHIFiGuy or you just dont listen to latest class ab amp? class d is cost cutting amp
@@myplaguesify dont be silly. I am an expert. I use AB as well as D in my system every day. I use the most advanced AB in existence. Jeff Rowland. I also use AGD production Gallium Nitride Class D, the most advanced class D on the planet. Each Jeff Rowland amp is $17, 500 and a pair of the AGD monobocks for my tweeters is only $7500, so it is a cost cutting solution.
Gan is a MOSFET driver. Are you sure it is Class D? If it is class D I would wager it is being switched at 300+mHz, instead of like 50kHz. That is a HUGE difference, and not even in the same ballpark because the GaN Fet can sample a waveform millions of times faster then a conventional Class D... meaning it is essentially a Class D acting like a Class AB, with vastly superior power handling characteristics.
Its absolutely Class D using a GaN FET
AB still has that smoothness.
D sounds really efficient and powerful but boomy on certain frequencies. Is there a way to use both?
Not that Ive seen... Unless you biamp with different amp types
Yea there is, many are building hybrid amps with class AB for pre and class D for out stages.
Q sounded better to me, but i donk know what amp that was?
Two very *different* songs used to compare the amps 🤔 That said, I prefer Song Q 😏
Been trying to tell people how far class d has come...
They get a blank stare dont they ? lol
@@OCDHIFiGuy never fails man
@@OCDHIFiGuy they actually seem to get angry at the suggestion that a lowly class D amp can compete with the much revered class a/b.
Hooking up a 5 channel D-Sonic in the next few days. 🤞
I may be wrong but I'm thinking j is the class d amps both sound really good.
Correct !
didn`t read on, which is which, but i prefere the first sample - Q
Q is more better than J
J - Class AB. More rounded and natural curve.
Before it goes to far j is class D
I use both types. I can honestly say i don't have a favourite.
To me Q is class D and the other class A/B, is that correct? Anyone know? Thank you
Before I know which is which, I can tell Sample J's punch is more solid.
Solid bass is important in acoustic recording.
I’m a sound engineer. Please explain how playing a recording of these systems back through my system reveals anything about them?
First off I don't believe the initial sentence. You are not a professional or you would clearly understand I'm showing the difference between two recordings. If your playback system can not reveal the differences, then again, you are no professional... sorry to be direct, I call it like I see it.
@@OCDHIFiGuy - the recordings are also dependent on your choice of mic, its preamp, its AD convertor, and even the sample rate and bit depth you used. When other people play those back, their own DAC, amplifier and speakers come into play. So how are we to know the source of whatever is being revealed?
I’d say Q was the class D and J was the class AB. Both are beautiful sounding amps though regardless of what class they are.
for sure.. They're Nearly indistinguishable
I know it’s not the point, but my initial impression was wrong after reading some other comments. Again, don’t care what class it is, and would love to have either one in my rig. Interesting “test”, Mikey. Just shows that Class D isn’t the dirty word in HiFi anymore, cuz as you mentioned, they really did sound SO damn close to one another.
Class d sound quality is amazing
iTS GOTTWEN WAY BETTER
GO MIKEY, how is the website coming along?
Q wins for me hands down!
Every class D amp I've heard crushes AB in terms of detail and neutrality. My 17yr old panasonic XR55 matches or exceeds any AB amp under $1000 Ive heard. You people are hearing things. The distortion caused by analog amps is what you like. Class D delivers better fidelity - period. Its like claiming your 20yr old 27" CRT has a better picture than your 55" OLED because the OLED shows the limits of your VHS collection.
Sample Q is the GAN?
cab you remove the cage around the tube?
Im new to see this vid. But i picked J as class d as well. Before looking at responses. Class D still seems to be missing that extra body...or ora around all the music. Theres seems to be that extra mucle around intruments with class ab amps. Be a car audiophile.. this case is the same. I have old school orion class ab amps (hcca) lots. and also full on Alpine pdx class d amp systems. Alpine system is around 2000watts total. Orion system is approx 600watts. Orion ie..class ab just sounds better. I love both. Class d seems to be easier to listen to for longer. More detail and emotion with my Orions. Alpine is mah...but way louder. And for my home system...Technics Sug700 and Paradigm monitor 11v7s. Dont laugh..Im still playin around. Thanks yall
Sample J is class D amplification.Period.THE base is far better controlled.
J was the more open sound Q was mumbled to me. J is the class D
Yessir!
Hi Mike are there any more affordable class D pre or power amplifiers you can recommend
Sure , the Jeff Rowland 125 is 125WPC for only $3K brand new
thx Mike
The D is more revealing. I suppose the next listening test would be to find a “cleaner” analog power amp than the Rowland.
the problem here, is that RUclips audio is really poor, so judging the harmonics and details is impossible.
*J* wins hands down for me
Is the Class AB toroidal? None of these sounded toroidal.
What makes you say that ?
@@OCDHIFiGuy I don't know but I had to go check the inside of it. Was Q the Jeff Rowland? Sample J had me moving to the sound which is how I rate music.
I could be dead wrong and gotten the Amps mixed up:)
Guess I will have wait till I can listen through headphones. Hard to tell through my crappy phone.
They are very close if not indistinguishable is my point
Sample J is the class D, Sample Q is the AB
BOOM ! David got it ..
Atma-sphere Class D is another contender
In my clients testing, AGD beat out Atma....Ill have to try
@@OCDHIFiGuy There is about 3 different version of AGD so which one beat out the Atma?
J sounded better to me
Pink Floyd is always the king
Q is class D and J is class AB. Clear difference in favor of class AB.
You have it in reverse...
Big surprise. So maybe I will become a convert.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Watch other vids or shall I say listen . That mic is amazing and the rooms treated . Great example . Class D cleaning up . Nice
@@ashlynholme1402 Which mic is amazing? Which rooms are treated?
I cnt belive Half the ppl in the comments..a class A/B 4channel is for mids and highs ..The mono d can yes work as a 4channel amp but it's made for subs and bass....when u run mids and highs u want a A/B amp man damn
You got to hear the high end latest class D designs. They have better clarity and less distortion than A/B. Problem is they are TOO clean and transparent...Too perfect sounding can be a double edged sword..
@OCDHIFiGuy huh??so what exactly are u trying to say??A\B amps are for mids and highs period ...mono d block are for bass and subs ..I aint knkw ppl.used d amps for there mids and highs now days jus being honest??so I'd be better getting a d block then??im running ds18s 6×9s and 6.5s
@Cali 82! I got you. You are talking car audio.. it's different. For sure you use D for subs and A/B for mid high. I got old PPI Art Series for my Mid High and Crossfire D mono for my JL subs in my old truck... good times... but I've left that behind for Home stuff now... in Home Audio, they are more serious about the quality of the class D, so they can be used as full range amps... hope this helps ;-) 😉
@OCDHIFiGuy thanks Glad sum one else understands what I'm saying ..
J sounds louder
listened through my phone in the sink I would say J is class D has more grip thank Q, I don't know why you chose his numbers tho! What's wrong with a and b
Has the class D got switching mode power supply or traditional
Both amps have a switch mode power supply, even the Rowland Class AB, and you've never seen a power supply that advanced its incredible...
@@OCDHIFiGuy what do you mean it's advanced incredible?? Not really no, what frequency does it work at
I think J is the AGD class D. Mikey, your recording is way far below par. I think you should improve it at the first place.
Ive got a killer Mic setup and its no better on youtube
j is superior, q is to muffled and bass heavy
First: You can polish aluminum all day - doesn't change the sound of anything, you can polish an empty box and it wont' play a thing.
GaN's do not improve the sound of a class D amplifier. GaNfets only increase efficiency, great if you're designing a renewable energy inverter but zero benefit if you're designing an audio amplifier.
Audio guys talk but where are the FFT's and Bode plots? This is the problem, audiophiles, whatever that means, have no idea what electronics is yet they are using electronic equipment. Who cares if they spent tons of money polishing something, I'm listening to an amp. I can buy a highly polished nail clipper, it's useless for audio.
Coming from the high powered Mosfet guy... LOL.. Bi Polar devices kick Mosfets ass... And GaN Means nothing unless theres a killer circuit design. Thats what Im demonstrating..
I can see don't have an electronics background, you're making statements that science doesn't support. You're not alone, lots of HiFi enthusiasts do the same thing. Once again, GaNfets ONLY increase efficiency, if you're designing a sine wave inverter for a PV system that's great, you can't hear the difference in an audio circuit, no one can. The only thing they enable designers to do is make smaller circuits with smaller heatsinks, which saves them money but does nothing to the audio signal. GaN's are no more difficult to design with than any other semiconductor, like all semiconductors they have parameters.
BPT's have characteristics, again, just like all semiconductors do. Class D has beneficial characteristics just like SET's do, it's what you like and what you want to pay.
@@OCDHIFiGuy
Q are the class D ones.
No Sir, I am sorry Q is AB
@@OCDHIFiGuy Thanks for the answer. Very good AB in fact. I found it more articulated with more punch and little ash in the highs. Strange that the class D seems to me more relaxed...
the first time sounds more crips than the second time
needs a bit of treble or take off a bit of bass dude!...you can hear it on the kick drum!
How to hookup my class d.
aaaa.use your hands... ?
Well, its a serious contender, it got better, it's not bad, all that stuff is true.
However, good class D is still noticeably worse that good class A.
Class D makes perfect sense for a car, but in a house, just why?
How can you make a judgement unless you have heard all of the class D amps? I have a "good" class A amp that proved to be sonically inferior on every level to a Mola Mola Kaluga I had on home trial. GaN amps offer a very exciting alternative. I would be interested to know which particular hifi class D amps you have had personal experience with
Q-AB, J - D
You got it
OCD HI-Fi Guy D class is very close to AB - I can hear the difference but it’s in my tolerance. I’m building dclass amps on the same modules like JR. Greatings from Poland
all new product are class d now, its more powerfull.
Cheaper, more energy efficient, etc... I still like old school texture in the midrange though ..
I can't hear a difference, that must be a compliment to class D amp
For sure
Went to 2021 Audio Show on 6/11/21 at Hilton in Long Beach. Went to the GAN audio room they connect to $17,500 MSRP bookshelves. Walked in and walked out. So bad. It has lots of bass, uncontrolled bass bloated bass like loose stool diarrhea bass. The sound is all over the places no focus. Didn’t even bother to look into the brand of speakers or the detail of the components. Also went to GAN audio in 2019 audio show and wasn’t impressed
well its too bad the rooms sucked, my room would sell these amps to you . I would not need to say a word.
GaN only put out 175w at 4ohm..... That’s fuck all, never get reference level with 175w... Hypex NC1200w mono! Level up and feel your face skin peel with the beats
Can't tell the difference!
Listen via headphones.
All this talking, all this awesome equipment ... and you mic'd the demo up like THAT?
Why bother Bro...
😴😴😴😴😴😴😴 who gives a shit . At your price levels they should both sound good.
SAMPLE Q to klasa AB , SAMPLE J to klasa D gut ? Oba grają dobrze . Sample q lepszy "kant" środek i góra. Sample j dżwięk bardziej matowy. Jak się mylę to bardzo dobry ten wzmacniacz klasy D. Z przymrużeniem oka bo ocena nie na żywo.
Czech Republic ? Romania ? Serbia ?
@OCDHIFiGuy Poland.
Why these reviewers compare good amps by using old trash music? It's like they're being the amp to make their trash music sound better.
$10,000 cash says you can’t tell the difference in a A&B blindfold test. 😉
LOL< thats exactly what I'm trying to show here..
No difference
Q better
ROWLAND !
too much talk
Over you tube cannot be an accurate sound ever sorry makes no point at all .
Thanks for sharing your opinion!