I think the problem when designing inhabited worlds in sci fi is often that they start on it backwards. They usually start with earth as a reference point and say "so planet is kind of like space New York, this planet is kind of like space San Francisco, then this other planet is kind of like space Tokyo. Now we've got to add some futuristic elements to make it seem like scifi and we've got to add some weird geography to make it seem like it's on another planet. How they should go about it is the reverse of this. You START your concepting process with the alien physical qualities of the world, then you extrapolate how people would live on it from, which then tells you how it should look. So say you've got a planet that you want to be really wealthy and powerful and have a big population. Let's say it's going to have mines on it that provide rare materials, and it's located along a really important trade route. The gravity is 0.6g and it's located further away from the star than earth, so maybe it's a little bit more like mars. The atmosphere isn't breathable, but isn't toxic either. Let's say there's nitrogen and water and co2 but little oxygen, so animals can't breath but plants are fine out in the open. It's colder than earth, but there's a lot of volcanic activity. So what would civilization on this planet look like? Well gravity is lower so you can have lots of huge, tall structures. Building things is cheap, moving cargo around is cheap, launches are cheap. You're probably going to have lots of elevated rail, supertall skyscrapers, huge domes, farms everywhere. Lots of travel by rocket and aircraft. You've got a fairly dense atmosphere but low gravity, so airships will work great, and can be much larger than aerostats on earth. This place is a great hub for manufacturing and logistics. Say they're a big producer of ceramics, then wouldn't they also use ceramics in building construction rather than concrete, steel, glass etc? People don't need spacesuits, to walk around outside, but they do need breathing devices and oxygen tanks. There's probably going to be large indoor parks that simulate earth, so people can experience nature in more comfort. You've got volcanic activity and water, so they're probably going to use geothermal power because it's cheap and easy. Cities are probably going to be built around geothermal springs because they provide water, heat, electricity, and minerals. It's kinda dark, so they're probably going to build a lot of artificial lights for mental health reasons. My point is, you should always start with the physical realities of the planet, and then ask "what's the easiest way to do things here? What would this place be good at? What would it be bad at? What could you do here that you couldn't do on earth? It makes the place feel believable, and gives it a strong sense of cohesion. Starting with "we want this place to be like Paris, but sci fi. We'll build all the environmental conditions afterwards" is such an uninspired way to go about it and I think it produces locations that feel boring.
You are right... I really wish CIG would listen and take note when architects talk about architecture / city planning... just like I wish they'd listen when physicists talk about how their physics / celestial mechanics doesn't quite add up. If Terra Prime ends up looking like a generic 1950's science fiction anthology cover instead of a futuristic analogue of Constantinople they'll only have themselves to blame.
It's a bit disappointing that you said cities plural in the title of the video, but focused specifically on the best vision for the main landing zone. I totally agree with what you said about that, but I was hoping you'd also be making a case for multiple landing zones, with plenty of room for other cities with the more generic sci-fi sprawl.
Looking at the older concept art for Star Citizen cities really does feel like the visual representation of a science fiction anthology. Unfortunately in the modern era, some of this artwork looks more like generic A.I. art of a "futuristic city" and uses spaceships and structures that don't look like anything like what we'd expect to see today in SC.
I think it would be awesome if they had a giant statue of a woman with outstretched arms made of pure haddanite that you could see from space, inviting you into the loving arms of Terra with smaller art installations throughout the city about founders and flowers absolutely everywhere. That would offset the boring sci-fi anthology feel.
Some of the concept art does, indeed, look like the back cover of a Sci Fi anthology (albeit a good one), but I totally agree with your analysis about what the city(s) in Terra should look like. However, CIG have a HUGE uphill struggle to create the Terra system to the same fidelity as Stanton!
well, I am very much looking forward to seeing our actual solar system in our Science Fiction game. I want to see what my "parent's house" looks like 930 years in the future.
Yeah... but this is Star Citizen though, and many of us are going to lean hard into that science fiction anthology vibe. We'll be like, "Hey who gives a crap about Prime? Somebody said, 'Mysterious ancient ruins near Quasi!' Lets gooooo!" Also, Castra "unexpected"? Okay, I've often found myself alone proclaiming Castra to be one of two likely systems soon after Nyx (seems I got Hadrian wrong though). No, Castra was always an obvious choice, more so than the often mentioned Odin system, as was Terra.
Anyone looking for a great sci-fi anthology should take a look at Neal Asher for newer stuff, or Jeffrey A Carver from 80's sci-fi. I'd look to see some concepts from those make it into Star Citizen. Looking forward to 1.0
Look, I think Michael Whelan would have been a much better choice, if they were going to do some cover art for Science Fiction. Some of his art is just remarkable.
LoL we have no idea how a futuristic city might incorporate our culture as humans as a whole, but do agree the city scapes did look like a scientific anthology cover xD
@@RaysGuide I agree it could but in the future we might even find ways to faster travel or traverse than the conventional way we have now changing how cities are built or even a bio-engineered building which could be a living building which does not deterorate are all things which can come into being and change how we connect with each other. A really interesting concept to think about :)
Star Citizen is a Sci-fi game, so early concept art looking rather generic science fiction anthology cover-ish is to be expected. The newer concept art for Castra has a bit of a definitive style, and I'd expect there is Terra stuff we have not yet seen.
I suppose the issue was that early Star Citizen was just another science-fiction anthology, lots of disparate ideas thrown at a wall to see what would stick. We've had over a decade of refinements and corrections since then, which has got us to where we are today.
I don't know. If a place in Star Citizen is going to have a "generic science fiction" look, it seems like Terra is probably it. Not that I am advocating for it so much as saying that it would seem to fit. Your points about important government buildings in real life are well taken, though.
I just hope they do real cultures justice when they make terra. If it wants to replace earth, major cultures would have to be established there. Entire cities that speak chinese, russian, etc. where you have to have some translator mobiglass app that has an augmented reality translation system linked up to your helmet so you can read signs and such, but for those who actually speak these languages they could leave that off. Would be peak immersion.
Now while I agree that the concept images we have look like anthology covers, as do most of the location concepts from that era. I have spent way too much time going through lore and I still couldn't tell you what half of them are. I don't think Terra, or to be more clear if we are mostly focusing on the city of Prime here, should be this bastion of neoclassical architecture and just a place waiting to become the capital. falling back on classical architecture is an Old UEE thing, and more significantly, a Messer Era thing. Terra would not be going in that direction. Terra, and Prime, are supposed to be these modern, cosmopolitan cities. They're the heart of fashion and culture in the empire. They're the future, not the past. The lore describes Prime as a meticulously planned city that fits perfectly into the surrounding environment. So government structures in Prime would not be large, dominating complexes covering vast tracts of land. They'd be complex, organic structures that move with the land, blurring the boundary between what is the planet and what is manmade. They'd not show power for being dominating, but for seeming to be part of the ancient planet itself.
Once again I feel as though your video isn't directed at the Star Citizen player, but rather Star Citizen developers. I hope they are viewers of yours! It would be a shame if much of the planet just appeared as meaningless sci-fi future city filler. Great analysis Ray!
The Roman and Greek temples eg acropolis were tall for their time, not just sprawling. The aim was to indeed create a visually impressive distinction from the surroundings - which could be interpreted in may ways in science fiction for terra. I hope the lore does not just bring us back to Roman and Greek times. SciFi is there to create worlds and Terra was set up to be something new and better! Not a copy of Earth cultural references.
they looked like the planned cities idea i've seen. there hasn't been any growth or ... compression where newer buildings are sqeezed into places too small for them. But how would cities on new planets be like, placement for colonies in 1700 is very different then ones in 2500 (just random numbers there). I mean in Civ, being near water at the start is important, but no so much once X tech is researched. even then, what is the main point of these cities, are they the port town, main gateway for goods to/from the planet? mining town? industrial? being that SC is a space game, aren't we playing in a science fiction anthology?
you're probably right, the first Concepts were way too science fiction imo - its not that far in the future as this would make sense tbh. im pretty curous how terra will turn out someday
As far as science fiction anthology cover's go have you ever seen one you didn't want to visit? All the cities will be interesting to visit in game, I'm not so much for them in the real.
I think Terra is going to be more like Dubai or Singapore. A little too sterile, a little too flashy, and with a seedy underbelly they hide away (see the concept art for the Blocks neighborhood).
I don’t particularly like the older architecture of the cities of current day Earth. I like the look of Coruscant in Star Wars with the top of planet’s tallest mountain on display. It might be generic sci-fi but if you at Canary Wharf or Manchester central, these are modern buildings now.
I have never read Best sf stories of 2987. I think you have some interesting ideas here but I really hope they look at the planet they want and then build the cities and design around that rather than oh this will be a old american wester planet and this will be a neo tokyo planet. Planets are devers and every city could be different. Although, it would be very likely to have different cultural developments just like earth. If you think about Dune for example the natives lived in caves and had these unique technologies because of the environment. That is how you build out a cool story and planet.
Yeah, generic science fiction is a good read for it, but I have to wonder if they'd really be going back to ancient Greece or Rome for inspiration centuries in the future. They could idolize completely different time periods, e.g. 17th & 18th century western Europe idolized ancient Egypt.
I don't see the original Terra as looking like an old Science Fiction Anthology, and don't mind tall buildings for government. Look at the United Nations Headquarters in NYC. It is 39 floors tall and relatively unassuming.
I am hoping that Terra leans less Generic Science Fiction anthology, and more Greek inspired. Terra has a more egalitarian democratic bent to contrast with the more autocratic imperialistic old earth.
good lord, they really named two rival planets with the same godamn name? I though they were the same thing until now, terra and sol are two different systems ???? fk me
They had a landing zone being worked on before they decided to make the planets completely instead of instanced. Terra Prime is a large city with many skyscrapers and it was beautiful. I don't like quaint low-rise cities like Washington DC especially in the future.
Ah, but the UEE Navy's headquarters is NOT on Earth. It's on MacArthur in the Kilian system.
*Pushes up science fiction geek glasses*
I think the problem when designing inhabited worlds in sci fi is often that they start on it backwards. They usually start with earth as a reference point and say "so planet is kind of like space New York, this planet is kind of like space San Francisco, then this other planet is kind of like space Tokyo. Now we've got to add some futuristic elements to make it seem like scifi and we've got to add some weird geography to make it seem like it's on another planet.
How they should go about it is the reverse of this. You START your concepting process with the alien physical qualities of the world, then you extrapolate how people would live on it from, which then tells you how it should look. So say you've got a planet that you want to be really wealthy and powerful and have a big population. Let's say it's going to have mines on it that provide rare materials, and it's located along a really important trade route. The gravity is 0.6g and it's located further away from the star than earth, so maybe it's a little bit more like mars. The atmosphere isn't breathable, but isn't toxic either. Let's say there's nitrogen and water and co2 but little oxygen, so animals can't breath but plants are fine out in the open. It's colder than earth, but there's a lot of volcanic activity.
So what would civilization on this planet look like? Well gravity is lower so you can have lots of huge, tall structures. Building things is cheap, moving cargo around is cheap, launches are cheap. You're probably going to have lots of elevated rail, supertall skyscrapers, huge domes, farms everywhere. Lots of travel by rocket and aircraft. You've got a fairly dense atmosphere but low gravity, so airships will work great, and can be much larger than aerostats on earth. This place is a great hub for manufacturing and logistics. Say they're a big producer of ceramics, then wouldn't they also use ceramics in building construction rather than concrete, steel, glass etc? People don't need spacesuits, to walk around outside, but they do need breathing devices and oxygen tanks. There's probably going to be large indoor parks that simulate earth, so people can experience nature in more comfort. You've got volcanic activity and water, so they're probably going to use geothermal power because it's cheap and easy. Cities are probably going to be built around geothermal springs because they provide water, heat, electricity, and minerals. It's kinda dark, so they're probably going to build a lot of artificial lights for mental health reasons.
My point is, you should always start with the physical realities of the planet, and then ask "what's the easiest way to do things here? What would this place be good at? What would it be bad at? What could you do here that you couldn't do on earth? It makes the place feel believable, and gives it a strong sense of cohesion. Starting with "we want this place to be like Paris, but sci fi. We'll build all the environmental conditions afterwards" is such an uninspired way to go about it and I think it produces locations that feel boring.
You are right... I really wish CIG would listen and take note when architects talk about architecture / city planning... just like I wish they'd listen when physicists talk about how their physics / celestial mechanics doesn't quite add up. If Terra Prime ends up looking like a generic 1950's science fiction anthology cover instead of a futuristic analogue of Constantinople they'll only have themselves to blame.
I'm thinking about social security. That's what I'll collect before we see this
I’m already collecting my state pension, I’m just glad to be seeing 4!
It's a bit disappointing that you said cities plural in the title of the video, but focused specifically on the best vision for the main landing zone. I totally agree with what you said about that, but I was hoping you'd also be making a case for multiple landing zones, with plenty of room for other cities with the more generic sci-fi sprawl.
Well, the number of landing zones are already specified.
CIG will definitely spread villages and towns, and with base building, players could build towns or even cities too.
Looking at the older concept art for Star Citizen cities really does feel like the visual representation of a science fiction anthology. Unfortunately in the modern era, some of this artwork looks more like generic A.I. art of a "futuristic city" and uses spaceships and structures that don't look like anything like what we'd expect to see today in SC.
If Terra wants to be the new Earth it can't feel empty, unlike Stanton. But we'll see what kind of Science Fiction Anthology Terra will be.
Well argued. It absolutely should have lots of neo-neoclassical architecture!
Aww.. right as the video ended, I was like 'Okay nice background, so how should Terra look.. this will be cool.' and then it was over. :(
I think it would be awesome if they had a giant statue of a woman with outstretched arms made of pure haddanite that you could see from space, inviting you into the loving arms of Terra with smaller art installations throughout the city about founders and flowers absolutely everywhere. That would offset the boring sci-fi anthology feel.
Some of the concept art does, indeed, look like the back cover of a Sci Fi anthology (albeit a good one), but I totally agree with your analysis about what the city(s) in Terra should look like. However, CIG have a HUGE uphill struggle to create the Terra system to the same fidelity as Stanton!
well, I am very much looking forward to seeing our actual solar system in our Science Fiction game. I want to see what my "parent's house" looks like 930 years in the future.
Best sf stories of 2987.
What a good year it will be!
Keep up the great work!
Yeah... but this is Star Citizen though, and many of us are going to lean hard into that science fiction anthology vibe. We'll be like, "Hey who gives a crap about Prime? Somebody said, 'Mysterious ancient ruins near Quasi!' Lets gooooo!"
Also, Castra "unexpected"? Okay, I've often found myself alone proclaiming Castra to be one of two likely systems soon after Nyx (seems I got Hadrian wrong though). No, Castra was always an obvious choice, more so than the often mentioned Odin system, as was Terra.
There appears to be missing audio around about 2:30 in the video
Anyone looking for a great sci-fi anthology should take a look at Neal Asher for newer stuff, or Jeffrey A Carver from 80's sci-fi. I'd look to see some concepts from those make it into Star Citizen. Looking forward to 1.0
City looks like science fiction! Keep up the good work Ray.
Cool ideas! Best SF stories of 2987.
Look, I think Michael Whelan would have been a much better choice, if they were going to do some cover art for Science Fiction. Some of his art is just remarkable.
LoL we have no idea how a futuristic city might incorporate our culture as humans as a whole, but do agree the city scapes did look like a scientific anthology cover xD
well in the year 2000 we are still directly quoting buildings from two millenia ago, why wouldn't in a thousand years be quoting current cities?
@@RaysGuide I agree it could but in the future we might even find ways to faster travel or traverse than the conventional way we have now changing how cities are built or even a bio-engineered building which could be a living building which does not deterorate are all things which can come into being and change how we connect with each other. A really interesting concept to think about :)
Very cool thoughts!
Unlike the Starlancer MFD “update”…
Star Citizen is a Sci-fi game, so early concept art looking rather generic science fiction anthology cover-ish is to be expected. The newer concept art for Castra has a bit of a definitive style, and I'd expect there is Terra stuff we have not yet seen.
I suppose the issue was that early Star Citizen was just another science-fiction anthology, lots of disparate ideas thrown at a wall to see what would stick. We've had over a decade of refinements and corrections since then, which has got us to where we are today.
More than concept art: they had Terra whiteboxed. People were running around it back in...2015, I think?
I don't know. If a place in Star Citizen is going to have a "generic science fiction" look, it seems like Terra is probably it. Not that I am advocating for it so much as saying that it would seem to fit. Your points about important government buildings in real life are well taken, though.
I just hope they do real cultures justice when they make terra. If it wants to replace earth, major cultures would have to be established there. Entire cities that speak chinese, russian, etc. where you have to have some translator mobiglass app that has an augmented reality translation system linked up to your helmet so you can read signs and such, but for those who actually speak these languages they could leave that off. Would be peak immersion.
Now while I agree that the concept images we have look like anthology covers, as do most of the location concepts from that era. I have spent way too much time going through lore and I still couldn't tell you what half of them are. I don't think Terra, or to be more clear if we are mostly focusing on the city of Prime here, should be this bastion of neoclassical architecture and just a place waiting to become the capital.
falling back on classical architecture is an Old UEE thing, and more significantly, a Messer Era thing. Terra would not be going in that direction. Terra, and Prime, are supposed to be these modern, cosmopolitan cities. They're the heart of fashion and culture in the empire. They're the future, not the past. The lore describes Prime as a meticulously planned city that fits perfectly into the surrounding environment. So government structures in Prime would not be large, dominating complexes covering vast tracts of land. They'd be complex, organic structures that move with the land, blurring the boundary between what is the planet and what is manmade. They'd not show power for being dominating, but for seeming to be part of the ancient planet itself.
Once again I feel as though your video isn't directed at the Star Citizen player, but rather Star Citizen developers. I hope they are viewers of yours! It would be a shame if much of the planet just appeared as meaningless sci-fi future city filler. Great analysis Ray!
My goal is to start discussions. I hope those discussions reach inside CIG but they are fun discussions netherless.
@@RaysGuide Agreed!
The Roman and Greek temples eg acropolis were tall for their time, not just sprawling. The aim was to indeed create a visually impressive distinction from the surroundings - which could be interpreted in may ways in science fiction for terra. I hope the lore does not just bring us back to Roman and Greek times. SciFi is there to create worlds and Terra was set up to be something new and better! Not a copy of Earth cultural references.
they looked like the planned cities idea i've seen. there hasn't been any growth or ... compression where newer buildings are sqeezed into places too small for them. But how would cities on new planets be like, placement for colonies in 1700 is very different then ones in 2500 (just random numbers there). I mean in Civ, being near water at the start is important, but no so much once X tech is researched. even then, what is the main point of these cities, are they the port town, main gateway for goods to/from the planet? mining town? industrial?
being that SC is a space game, aren't we playing in a science fiction anthology?
you're probably right, the first Concepts were way too science fiction imo - its not that far in the future as this would make sense tbh. im pretty curous how terra will turn out someday
As far as science fiction anthology cover's go have you ever seen one you didn't want to visit? All the cities will be interesting to visit in game, I'm not so much for them in the real.
I think Terra is going to be more like Dubai or Singapore. A little too sterile, a little too flashy, and with a seedy underbelly they hide away (see the concept art for the Blocks neighborhood).
Every city has its slums.
I hope they really build out the different styles for each region, not just loo like the cover of a "science fiction anthology". :P
I don’t particularly like the older architecture of the cities of current day Earth. I like the look of Coruscant in Star Wars with the top of planet’s tallest mountain on display. It might be generic sci-fi but if you at Canary Wharf or Manchester central, these are modern buildings now.
I have never read Best sf stories of 2987. I think you have some interesting ideas here but I really hope they look at the planet they want and then build the cities and design around that rather than oh this will be a old american wester planet and this will be a neo tokyo planet. Planets are devers and every city could be different. Although, it would be very likely to have different cultural developments just like earth. If you think about Dune for example the natives lived in caves and had these unique technologies because of the environment. That is how you build out a cool story and planet.
Yeah, generic science fiction is a good read for it, but I have to wonder if they'd really be going back to ancient Greece or Rome for inspiration centuries in the future. They could idolize completely different time periods, e.g. 17th & 18th century western Europe idolized ancient Egypt.
Who doesn't like a good science fiction anthology
But Science Fiction Anthologies are great coffee table books! Also, I hope that 2987 isn't when you think the game is going to be released lol.
I plan on Terra to be my home world
I don't see the original Terra as looking like an old Science Fiction Anthology, and don't mind tall buildings for government. Look at the United Nations Headquarters in NYC. It is 39 floors tall and relatively unassuming.
But apart from the offices, the real heart of the UN headquarters is mid-rise.
Yeah, those do look like a pretty generic old science fiction anthology cover... Hopefully we get some designs more along the seat of power motif.
It shouldn't look like Canary Wharf does in London UK.
I am hoping that Terra leans less Generic Science Fiction anthology, and more Greek inspired. Terra has a more egalitarian democratic bent to contrast with the more autocratic imperialistic old earth.
I think I actually have an old science fiction anthology lying around here some where... OK, I'm done looking, can't find it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
good lord, they really named two rival planets with the same godamn name? I though they were the same thing until now, terra and sol are two different systems ???? fk me
science fiction anthology
Best SF stories 2987
They had a landing zone being worked on before they decided to make the planets completely instead of instanced. Terra Prime is a large city with many skyscrapers and it was beautiful. I don't like quaint low-rise cities like Washington DC especially in the future.
o7
The perfect place for Slaaneshi corruption
Science Fiction Anthology.