Having designed and built a lot of audio cables I know it can be a tricky thing to get right on a budget. They went for braided silver plated copper which should perform well electrically but you sacrifice on flexibility, microphonics and connector quality. We make a lot of cables that cost more than these headphones so I have to forgive them for not being totally on point ;)
I've just ordered your upgrade headband and Super Grills. If the Super Grills aren't a huge improvement, I won't be too disappointed as the headband that comes as stock is not comfortable, and the new grills will at least look nicer.
These don't look too bad, indeed. Modding-wise, first I'd change the metal mesh with a more open one - either one with larger hexagonal holes for better airflow and transparency or a woven wire mesh, for that combing effect and still better airflow. Secondly, on the inside of the cups, between the outer wall and where the mesh starts, there's a "lip", where something like sound-absorbing foam can be placed. And thirdly, of course, pad rolling. I'd try something from Hifiman themselves, but from a higher-end model, as long as the size is the same. Alternatively, other pads with larger openings could be an improvement.
Mine (chinese version) has a peak at 9500Hz. That equals to a wavelength of 3.61cm and 1/4 of that is 9mm. If thats the distance between membrane and backplate we might have found the source for that standing wave. If someone were to measure these without the grill and see if that peak goes away that would be interesting!
I wish someone would compare the international and the chinese graph. I got the chinese version and im wondering if i should EQ it based on the international version graph
These looks really interesting. The amount of engineering in these is simply amazing since I am sued to a dynamic driver in a simple plastic earcup. Planars are an another level and I have not yet had a proper planar on my head and people recommend these a lot as they are a supposed to be a perfect entry planar and great headphone overall. I think I might pick these up. 149€ on Amazon... Graph is a wee bit wonky with the 2khz region being quite recessed while its accentuated on my AKG K702. Easily a 5db difference there. But I am an avid supporter of EQing your audio gear so not a big issue for me. If I turn the 2khz region up by a few db, tame the 1khz hump by just a tiny adjustment and give it a few db in the sub-bass these would be absolutely dead on the neutral target.
I bought them recently and they changed the cable to a really thick black rubber one. I would say it's better than before. they changed the packaging too, to a really generic one. but well, they made them 100usd for a while.
@@CustomCans Its much better agree, but again a terrible cable like Sundara Cable . Is it to hard for all Headphone manufacturers like Focal, Sony,Hifiman,B&O to make a cable like HD650,660s ? How hard is to make a cable that doesnt tangle , is magnetic protected , is copper , machined confections, light , magnetic field protected, not Para corded or fabric or anything that dont last in years, and cost little ? All Manufacturers keep changing their cables, But 650 cable didnt change all these years just one time back to HD600 years .
I've been thinking about picking up one of these or an HE-X4 off the used market for a little planar to round out my again-growing mid-fi/modding collection. Currently got a modded TH-610, an HD 580 and an also-modded DT 770 250 Ohm. Always nice to see a teardown with commentary from someone that knows what they're doing.
I was curious about this pair so had watched your videos earlier. Then I went ahead and bought Sundaras. Unsuprisingly cable is annoying and I wanted to replace them. Since hifiman cables ends with dual 3.5 mm TRS, I wanted to check how it is wired inside the cup and if it is possible to use dual 3.5 mm TS cables. From what I understand, I can. What I did not understand, why would hifiman use dual TRS cables? Do you have any insight on this?
The tip is positive and I believe the sleeve is negative but yes... you can use TS or TRS with them as there are only 2 connections in side - I am not 100% sure but More TRS jacks are made than TS so they may be slightly cheaper
I liked the video and stubbed. Until 14:25 , on the mic you used, you should add a high-pass filter or just eq out the sub-bass. There were lots of distracting noise in that range, when you were putting the tools down on the table etc.
Yes - you are right - I will try to get a shock mount or proper stand for the mic soon that should fix the issue. I am slowly building up all the kit I need to make better videos but I am so excited about saving up for a fancier camera that I overlooked the mic a bit ;)
What happens if you place a Foam ( Beyerdynamic Foam Disc fits perfect) in front of the driver or Behind the Driver ? Have you measure that ? Honestly i cant find any info about that. On any Headphone.
It is not something I have tried yet. I may get round to it at some point but probably taking a rest from the HE400 stuff for a while as I have lots of other projects to finish off
@@CustomCans Out of curiosity when you unscrewed the earcups/ drivers from the yolks do u happen to know what kind of plug or holder thing the screws were screwed into called? I wanted to see if i could buy that part for my 4xx earcups to mod them on so I can try to use the deva/400se/400i 2020 headband for my 4xx..
@@CustomCans It's all good. Gonna sacrifice a 400i 2020 that's arriving this weekend and see if i can mod my 4XX to use the 400i 2020 headband, since i much prefer its sound signature over the 400i 2020, and the 400se that i had a chance to try out recently, a few days ago..
I was able to mod the Hifiman 4XX successfully to fit the 400i 2020 Headband with no issues. I'm not sure what i wanna do with the 400i 2020 drivers now though.. www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/nevmai/4xx_headband_swap/
The HE4XX have more bass impact than these do, although I don't think you're going to get much bass extension in this price range tbh. I hear these sound more like the Sundara than HE4XX. You should try to get your hands on a pair of Verum 1, they also have a double magnet array, but a much thicker membrane (due to being hand made), so bass timbre is completely different. They extend all the way down. Would be fascinated to see you mod the verum 1, or just critique the construction :)
You are right ;) EQing is much quicker and cheaper and a good way to hide any peaks and troughs your headphones may have in the frequency plot. Modding is unpredictable, expensive, time consuming and dangerous but some people find it a fun adventure. But...... Here is an experiment you could try Open two youtube windows. In one get up 1khz sine wave and in the other open a video with 1khz square wave. They are both the same frequency and you can set them to the same volume but they will still sound different.
@@CustomCans what your experiment has to do with EQ ? Let me enlight you, it has nothing. Square waves are not natural born acoustic waves in any way if you are implying it in sort of way, and are not a result of EQ What so ever. You are talking with a mathematician. I suggest and recommend from your side, to accomplish the education about the math involved in the matter above. If you need any help I am here. Sorry for bad English on my behalf, I am from Israel.
@@AY-dw4om I think your english is pretty good and thank you for offering to help. You are correct, that is not a good example. I was just trying to think of a good way to show that different driver and enclosure designs can effect the way the output waveform sounds that may not be easy to fix with EQ. Like if you have a lot of harmonics or a longer decay on the bass than the input signal. As you say, I definitely need to learn more about EQing and DSP. I would love to make a video about it in the future once I have learnt a bit more so if you know of any good technical resources that will help that would be great
@@CustomCans The best way to do a headphone good, is make sure it doesn't have a back cup. The cup was invented for 3 reasons back than: 1. to make you the listener not interfere with others and keep their privacy from your music. 2. to make you the listener isolated from the noise of the world outside. 3. to help with back pressure and acoustics return, so help low octaves (bass) get enough volume, to even the very bad and un balanced nature of headphones of that era. But today we do not need those: a. we audiophiles listen at home in our controlled environment , and do not need this sound insolation from the surroundings. b. todays head phones quality and amps are extremely powerful for cheap money, negating the for low octave compensation cup unneeded any more. What we achieve in return for eliminating the cup, is zero back cup waves return, and a clean sound that emits directly form the driver with out any other waves interfering in an out of faze manner. so the sound is as clean and undistorted as possible. that leaves us to EQ'ing with an EQ software at the source level, done today at higher bit rates with meaningless quantization errors for the application at hand, e.g. 115DB dynamic range (more than 20 bits) at least required for human hearing. and that's it. so leave the manual physicals tuning methods out side of the realm, it isn't necessary any more, and use advance technology that we have available to us today for practically zero money.
@@AY-dw4om there are people who enjoy modding, I think you shouldn't try and stop them from doing what they want to. You make good points, but ultimately, you sound like a nagging mother. Let people enjoy things.
If you averaged out all the planar headphones, these would definitely be some of the cheaper ones but yes they are still £130 ish so not super cheap ;)
it's funny how of all the reviews, you were the nicest about the cable
Having designed and built a lot of audio cables I know it can be a tricky thing to get right on a budget. They went for braided silver plated copper which should perform well electrically but you sacrifice on flexibility, microphonics and connector quality.
We make a lot of cables that cost more than these headphones so I have to forgive them for not being totally on point ;)
I've just ordered your upgrade headband and Super Grills.
If the Super Grills aren't a huge improvement, I won't be too disappointed as the headband that comes as stock is not comfortable, and the new grills will at least look nicer.
The difference in sound is subtle but glad to hear you like the headband ;)
These don't look too bad, indeed. Modding-wise, first I'd change the metal mesh with a more open one - either one with larger hexagonal holes for better airflow and transparency or a woven wire mesh, for that combing effect and still better airflow. Secondly, on the inside of the cups, between the outer wall and where the mesh starts, there's a "lip", where something like sound-absorbing foam can be placed. And thirdly, of course, pad rolling. I'd try something from Hifiman themselves, but from a higher-end model, as long as the size is the same. Alternatively, other pads with larger openings could be an improvement.
Thanks - I will have a play and do a bit of testing
doing this completely removes all of the low end from this headphone and some midrange
Mine (chinese version) has a peak at 9500Hz. That equals to a wavelength of 3.61cm and 1/4 of that is 9mm. If thats the distance between membrane and backplate we might have found the source for that standing wave. If someone were to measure these without the grill and see if that peak goes away that would be interesting!
Is it easy or hard to drive ?
I wish someone would compare the international and the chinese graph. I got the chinese version and im wondering if i should EQ it based on the international version graph
@@EGxSenSei it's pretty hard, definitely can't run it off of PC/Laptop, it gets loud enough on my phone but the sound is pretty flat and boring
I like your modding style, you just do your thing and we can see it all. Thanks ,just subbed.
Thanks for the sub ;)
These looks really interesting. The amount of engineering in these is simply amazing since I am sued to a dynamic driver in a simple plastic earcup. Planars are an another level and I have not yet had a proper planar on my head and people recommend these a lot as they are a supposed to be a perfect entry planar and great headphone overall. I think I might pick these up.
149€ on Amazon...
Graph is a wee bit wonky with the 2khz region being quite recessed while its accentuated on my AKG K702. Easily a 5db difference there. But I am an avid supporter of EQing your audio gear so not a big issue for me.
If I turn the 2khz region up by a few db, tame the 1khz hump by just a tiny adjustment and give it a few db in the sub-bass these would be absolutely dead on the neutral target.
I bought them recently and they changed the cable to a really thick black rubber one. I would say it's better than before. they changed the packaging too, to a really generic one. but well, they made them 100usd for a while.
Yeh the new cable is much better and the foam inside the box turns into a headphone stand, which is pretty cool
@@CustomCans Its much better agree, but again a terrible cable like Sundara Cable . Is it to hard for all Headphone manufacturers like Focal, Sony,Hifiman,B&O to make a cable like HD650,660s ? How hard is to make a cable that doesnt tangle , is magnetic protected , is copper , machined confections, light , magnetic field protected, not Para corded or fabric or anything that dont last in years, and cost little ? All Manufacturers keep changing their cables, But 650 cable didnt change all these years just one time back to HD600 years .
Hey pal you don't have any replacement drivers/membranes do you as mine seem to have broken 😭😭
I've been thinking about picking up one of these or an HE-X4 off the used market for a little planar to round out my again-growing mid-fi/modding collection. Currently got a modded TH-610, an HD 580 and an also-modded DT 770 250 Ohm.
Always nice to see a teardown with commentary from someone that knows what they're doing.
I am getting better at pretending I know what I am doing ;) #FakeItTillYouMakeIt
Yummy silica gel. The reason to buy them!
Nom Nom Nom
I was curious about this pair so had watched your videos earlier. Then I went ahead and bought Sundaras. Unsuprisingly cable is annoying and I wanted to replace them. Since hifiman cables ends with dual 3.5 mm TRS, I wanted to check how it is wired inside the cup and if it is possible to use dual 3.5 mm TS cables. From what I understand, I can. What I did not understand, why would hifiman use dual TRS cables? Do you have any insight on this?
The tip is positive and I believe the sleeve is negative but yes... you can use TS or TRS with them as there are only 2 connections in side - I am not 100% sure but More TRS jacks are made than TS so they may be slightly cheaper
@@CustomCans makes sense, thank you.
Are there any good replacement pads for the HE400SE?
Hifiman sell adapter rings to fit other pads
@@CustomCans Thank you
I liked the video and stubbed. Until 14:25 , on the mic you used, you should add a high-pass filter or just eq out the sub-bass. There were lots of distracting noise in that range, when you were putting the tools down on the table etc.
Yes - you are right - I will try to get a shock mount or proper stand for the mic soon that should fix the issue. I am slowly building up all the kit I need to make better videos but I am so excited about saving up for a fancier camera that I overlooked the mic a bit ;)
What happens if you place a Foam ( Beyerdynamic Foam Disc fits perfect) in front of the driver or Behind the Driver ? Have you measure that ? Honestly i cant find any info about that. On any Headphone.
It is not something I have tried yet. I may get round to it at some point but probably taking a rest from the HE400 stuff for a while as I have lots of other projects to finish off
Really interesting, there is some discussion if they can be driven balanced, are they cabled internally for balanced, I couldn’t quite see from video?
Yes these can be run balanced - you just need a balanced cable for them. Pretty much all headphones with dual entry cable can be converted to balanced
@@CustomCans thanks, that is what I thought so was a little confused when people were saying they were not sure if they were grounded to run balanced
Will you do a full review of the 400se eventually? I'd love to see how they compare to the Drop Hifiman 4xx if you ever owned a pair of them too..
We will certainly doing some more testing and mods on them soon but we don't have any 4xx for comparison unfortunately
@@CustomCans Out of curiosity when you unscrewed the earcups/ drivers from the yolks do u happen to know what kind of plug or holder thing the screws were screwed into called? I wanted to see if i could buy that part for my 4xx earcups to mod them on so I can try to use the deva/400se/400i 2020 headband for my 4xx..
@@Coconuts738 no sorry, I don't know what they are called
@@CustomCans It's all good. Gonna sacrifice a 400i 2020 that's arriving this weekend and see if i can mod my 4XX to use the 400i 2020 headband, since i much prefer its sound signature over the 400i 2020, and the 400se that i had a chance to try out recently, a few days ago..
I was able to mod the Hifiman 4XX successfully to fit the 400i 2020 Headband with no issues. I'm not sure what i wanna do with the 400i 2020 drivers now though..
www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/nevmai/4xx_headband_swap/
When you order them now you get a new and better cable.
Yes - they new cables are much better
can I use these headphones as a mobile audiophile?
They are pretty low impedance so should work well with mobiles and they are not too bas as far as wind noise when walking around
@@CustomCans What about sennheiser IE 100 pro?
unfortunately no, they have a low impedance. but planars are really hard to drive no matter what the impedance states
Bought these just to see how they sound... I don't want to admit it but it sounds better than my 600USD planars... wtf is goin on.
Btw the cables were super shitty. lol
Yeh - they are really good - even better with modification.
can you bend headband for big head?
I Have not tried sorry - as they fit me quite nicely as they are I don't want to bend them to find out ;)
@@CustomCans al good man
The HE4XX have more bass impact than these do, although I don't think you're going to get much bass extension in this price range tbh. I hear these sound more like the Sundara than HE4XX. You should try to get your hands on a pair of Verum 1, they also have a double magnet array, but a much thicker membrane (due to being hand made), so bass timbre is completely different. They extend all the way down. Would be fascinated to see you mod the verum 1, or just critique the construction :)
The Verum 1 do look interesting. But I have Just spanked a load of money on new camera equipment so won't be buying any new headphones for a while ;)
You think this cable is alright?! My god, this is one of the worst cables I've ever seen on a pair of headphones!
Tuning ?
Are you a newbie ?
use EQ.
Apo equalizer is free ....
You are right ;) EQing is much quicker and cheaper and a good way to hide any peaks and troughs your headphones may have in the frequency plot.
Modding is unpredictable, expensive, time consuming and dangerous but some people find it a fun adventure.
But...... Here is an experiment you could try
Open two youtube windows. In one get up 1khz sine wave and in the other open a video with 1khz square wave. They are both the same frequency and you can set them to the same volume but they will still sound different.
@@CustomCans what your experiment has to do with EQ ?
Let me enlight you, it has nothing. Square waves are not natural born acoustic waves in any way if you are implying it in sort of way, and are not a result of EQ What so ever. You are talking with a mathematician.
I suggest and recommend from your side, to accomplish the education about the math involved in the matter above.
If you need any help I am here.
Sorry for bad English on my behalf, I am from Israel.
@@AY-dw4om I think your english is pretty good and thank you for offering to help. You are correct, that is not a good example. I was just trying to think of a good way to show that different driver and enclosure designs can effect the way the output waveform sounds that may not be easy to fix with EQ. Like if you have a lot of harmonics or a longer decay on the bass than the input signal.
As you say, I definitely need to learn more about EQing and DSP. I would love to make a video about it in the future once I have learnt a bit more so if you know of any good technical resources that will help that would be great
@@CustomCans The best way to do a headphone good, is make sure it doesn't have a back cup. The cup was invented for 3 reasons back than:
1. to make you the listener not interfere with others and keep their privacy from your music.
2. to make you the listener isolated from the noise of the world outside.
3. to help with back pressure and acoustics return, so help low octaves (bass) get enough volume, to even the very bad and un balanced nature of headphones of that era.
But today we do not need those:
a. we audiophiles listen at home in our controlled environment , and do not need this sound insolation from the surroundings.
b. todays head phones quality and amps are extremely powerful for cheap money, negating the for low octave compensation cup unneeded any more.
What we achieve in return for eliminating the cup, is zero back cup waves return, and a clean sound that emits directly form the driver with out any other waves interfering in an out of faze manner.
so the sound is as clean and undistorted as possible. that leaves us to EQ'ing with an EQ software at the source level, done today at higher bit rates with meaningless quantization errors for the application at hand, e.g. 115DB dynamic range (more than 20 bits) at least required for human hearing. and that's it.
so leave the manual physicals tuning methods out side of the realm, it isn't necessary any more, and use advance technology that we have available to us today for practically zero money.
@@AY-dw4om there are people who enjoy modding, I think you shouldn't try and stop them from doing what they want to. You make good points, but ultimately, you sound like a nagging mother. Let people enjoy things.
"cheap"
If you averaged out all the planar headphones, these would definitely be some of the cheaper ones but yes they are still £130 ish so not super cheap ;)