Bladerunner 2049 is absolutely amazing. The idea that we all want to be special, we all want to be 'the one.' Yet even after realizing he is not 'the one' ("we all wish it was us" line hits hard here), K does the virtuous thing, sacrificing himself, showcasing how truly human he is. Truly outstanding.
My film professor explained why he thought blade runner was brilliant, and I kind of agree with his read on it. Replicants like Roy Batty are the actual main characters. They have a tragic backstory, and a time sensitive goal that drives them to live their lives to the fullest. But instead, we're following Deckard, who is just coasting through life and barely showing any emotion. Imo, the point isnt if Deckard is a Replicant, but the fact that a human can act more robotic and empty than an android. Watching the movie again through that lense, made me genuinely love the movie so much more. The kiss is still so weird and out of place, though, imo 😄
@@Bookborn Yes! Blade Runner is my favorite movie of all time and honestly a lot of the complaints you have about the movie are things that I think make the movie great (minus the kiss scene...) because it allows so much room for the viewer to uncover much of the meaning for themselves. With that being said you definitely need to watch the Final Cut instead of the theatrical. I think most people who love the movie do not really even consider the theatrical release to be the "real" version of the movie. Director's cut and Final cut are marginally different so either would be fine to watch, basically the Final Cut is a slightly updated version of the Director's cut. The "tears in rain" monologue is definitely the most powerful moment in the movie, and I get your complaint about feeling like it could have been explored more but I would recommend re-watching it and see if you still agree with that assessment. I think the movie does explore the question of humanity much more than you're giving it credit for, it's just done in subtle ways.
Bladerunner is my favorite film of all time, but I totally understand the “it was just OK” reaction. The way you phrased it-that it was a bit lackluster because you had seen so many things inspired by it-makes a lot of sense. I’m old, so it just blew my little mind when I originally saw it, but you can’t expect that from viewers today. It reminds me of how my students all love the prequels more than the original Star Wars trilogy. And as a longtime fan of Philip K. Dick, “the execution was lacking, but the ideas are great” might be the most appropriate way to sum up his writing. I think some sci-fi authors are “craft writers,” meaning they focus on story fundamentals like characterization, dialogue, etc. more than plot, and some are all about the big ideas that are just burning a hole in their brains and they do their best to wrap a functional story around it. Dick falls squarely into the latter category. He’ll always be one of my favorites, but his characters are mostly vehicles for concepts & ideas rather than people you’ll get attached to.
I think the fact the replicant characters are so fleshed out and sympathetic while Deckard and so many of the “human” characters are fairly deplorable is one of the most striking and resonating thematic elements of the movie. Also, if you ever have the chance to see this movie in 35mm absolutely do it. It was like watching it for the first time again.
I definitely think that Deckard not being personable is intentional the fact that androids are more emotive and likeable makes me wonder if the distinction between Android and human is even important.
Something interesting to note about the creation of the book is what inspired it. PKD said he got the idea while researching for Man In The High Castle where he read an account by a Nazi hearing the screams of people being tortured and he was more concerned with them stopping because it bothered him. So the book was meant to explore what it is to be without empathy. As an aside, I read the book after I saw the movie because the movie came out when I was very very young and I always struggled with the book. I loved the movie but 2049 took it to another level in my mind and is now my favorite
I love that you jumped on this topic - I know you're typically Fantasy so it's great to see you delve into Sci-Fi and bring your research and thoughts to the deep stories there. Considering this deep dive you've done, which was really great. I'm wondering if you've ever read Isaac Asimov's " Positronic Man " which was made into the movie Bicentennial Man with Robin William. It fits perfectly in your analysis here. I liked both the novel and the movie. Thanks for this video.
Rutger Hauer added the "tears in the rain" part and they liked it so they kept it in the film. Blade Runner doesn't work if Deckard is a replicant. His whole character arch is discovering his humanity again. I know Ridley Scott says he is today but he's also changed his mind a thousand times about that over the last 40 years. Harrison Ford said he was told he was human, the screenwriter said it was human. Scott jumped on the bandwagon after it started to gain traction over the next decade after its' release. He's acted like he was much more clever than he really is. That Hollywood ego thing. I recommend Dangerous Days, the making of Blade Runner. If you like the behind the scenes stuff, this is an excellent documentary. Not the youtube version though, which I was told is really cut down.
I think it's better that it's a question on whether he is human or not - that's definitely how the book feels. I don't know if the question needs to be answered for the story to make sense, for me personally. I think the question muddles the line between replicant and human, which feels like the theme of all three pieces to varying degrees. I do loooove behind the scenes stuff so thank you for the rec! I'll watch behind the scenes stuff of things I haven't even seen 🤣
I agreed with pretty much everything you said in this video (although I think I liked 2049 even more than you did) so instead of trying to cancel you for your Blade Runner opinion I will give you this clapping emoji 👏
I think this is honestly one of your best videos! I’ve always loved Bladerunner (2049 especially) but “Adroids” has been sitting on my shelf for years. Definitely inspired to finally read it. Really interesting how you link the questions/fears of the time the novel was written to how we see/what we fear about AI now.
Thank you!! I'm really proud of this one actually so I appreciate the comment :) And you should def read it, it's super quick - only about 200 pages and pretty suspenseful so it flies by
Great analysis of the book and the two major film adaptations. I enjoyed the book and Dick's style. My ranking 1. Blade Runner 2049 2. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep 3. Blade Runner
I love that you see the amazing world building in the book! The author, Philip K Dick, has many amazing ideas and world building but I don’t think he is very good at writing compelling stories. That’s why many of his books make great adaptations (like blade runner, minority report, and man in the high castle) but the books are hard to get through, at least for me. This is how I feel about much of the “old” sci-fi that I read.
Btw, I didn't learn that Minority Report was based on a novel until THIS WEEK!! I was obsessssed with that movie as a kid, I've seen it a thousand times. I'm for sure going to go read it now! Some other people have commented that to me after my review of Androids, and it actually makes me more interested to read his other stuff. If I go in knowing the ideas are fantastic even if the execution isn't always perfect, I'll still really enjoy stuff. I'm more of an idea person anyway.
I had the same experience you had with Blade Runner. Felt too familiar and formulaic, which is unfair to the movie because like you said it is the original. However, I was completely blown away with Blade Runner 2049. The movie has stuck with me for years and made me love and appreciate the original more. I still wonder if Joi really loved Joe and if that even matters. It is one of the bleakest, loneliest, yet most hopeful movies I have ever seen.
Oh boy, I sure have a lot to say about this topic. Cyberpunk is my favourite subgnre of Sci-fi. From books, to animation, from videogames to graphic novels, from tabletop games to movies, if it's cyberpunk, I am interested. BladeRunner 2049 is probably my favourite movie of all time. I agree with you assessment of the book. Philip K Dick is the idea guys. I've been through a lot of Dick in my time, and while it always gave me something to think about, it never blew my mind while it lasted (sorry, couldn't t resist the joke, I'm literally a child haha). His writing is never anything to write home about, but the ideas are awlway always gripping. And I think the movies follow this really well, while still being their own thing. The three together make up an outstanding trilogy that explores three key elements of the human condition. Do Androids, for me, is mostly about how when humanity ruind it's world, and is literally dying in clutter, making things all but useless, we still had a way to comerrcilaize what was left. Our emphaty. Who knows if any animals are even left? Deckards's neighbours animal just as well might be fake. What matters is status, the appearance. The first movie is about fear. The entire chase sequence with Roy and Deckard really drives home how terrible it is to live in fear as a thinking feeling android. Also Ridley Scott and Vangelis dreamed up such a unique audiovisual world, that it set cyberpunk apart from sci-fi forever. And of course as you and others pointed out the third movie does an outstanding exploration of what it means to matter, and how we can fill our ultimately meaningless, mayfly lives with meaning, when the world towers over our tiny existence. All supremely human. All questions that are tales as old as time. If you enjoyed these books, I recommend Neuromancer for exploring what more obscure, software like form of AI might mean on a societal level and Snow Crash for a genuinely well written and captivating adventure. Other mediums of cyberpunk that might also be interesting: Transitor is a great indie game about how art could help in our self-actualaztion in such a soulless future, and of course the classic, yet brilliant Ghost in the Shell Movie, for a great, in depth look in how much our bodies who we even are. Sorry this ended up being an absolute diarrhea of thought, but I'm just so passionate about this. Maybe I should just write an essay.
Hi Bookborn. Just wanted to say I appreciate it when you make videos about more niche things you're interested in, even if they aren't as successful. Blade Runner is my favourite film as well, so I might be biased in that regard though. Edit: If you're interested in books that comment in ai you should look at neuromancer. Really difficult, yet really rewarding.
I liked your analysis. I think you are correct about why you found Bladerunner less than you hoped, it has been hugely influential and so when you came to it you had seen it all before. When I watched it for the first time it was ground breaking. 2049 is wonderful. I feel Villeneuve does his homework. He doesnt inflict his vision on a story, I think his movies are more of a collaboration between his genius and the vision of the original author.
I would recommend book of the new sun for your next read. It goes into this idea of machines being more creative than people and many other really cool ideas. Gene Wolfe is an S tier writer. He has won many Nebula awards. George R.R. Martin has written with him and has said BOTNS is what he wished he could do with ASOIAF.
I love PDK however because he wrote so many novels in a few weeks high on speed they can sometimes be a little clunky, but he always plays with ideas and themes that stick with you after reading. Also, even though his writing style isn't the most elegant, the books are always short so I never resent the books for that.
Yeah, it seems that the consensus from PDK fans are that his ideas are stellar but his books lack some finesse in terms of actual plotting/structure. But like you said - they are so short, that even with some lacking execution, they are still enjoyable.
I just recently read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and its was a jarring experience to go from how much I love the movie to being really depressed by the book. The movies isn't a happy movie but the book is so depressing. When he gets his wife to put in the "obedient wife" code i died. I kind of feel like the original text could be adapted into a completely different movie.
DADOES > Blade Runner > 2049 I saw Blade Runner before reading the book, and I remember thinking it was good but there were a lot of ideas that really stuck with me and my appreciation grew over time. A few years later I read the book and it was my first Philip K Dick book and was instantly hooked. I thought the book did a much better job of posing the questions, and even included some scenes like the unknown police station which really just mess with your understanding of what's going on. I'm one of the few who really didn't get into 2049; it was fine but it didn't have as much of an impact on me as the others. I hope you'll try some other Philip K Dick stories as he's definitely a huge influence on the genre even if people don't know. His execution is usually far from perfect, but his ideas are way out there.
Excellent analysis! Years back I presented a paper on 2049, and I focused entirely on alienation, objectification, and "reification" because the movie is chock-a-block with ideas that can be explored with Marxist theory, feminist theory, etc. It's a truly fascinating film and you don't even have to discuss AI, it has so much under the surface. The literal projection of a commercial product who has a personality (Joi) onto a sex worker's body was fascinating. And the Voight-Kampff test ensuring that K is suitably alienated from his work. And so much more!
Omg, I love both movies and Blade Runner 2047 is my favourite movie of all time. Cyberpunk is also my favourite science fiction subgenre, but for some reason I haven't read the book yet. I'll come back to this video when I've read the book, but I wanted to share my appreciation for this video already :D
BR2049 is a masterpiece, and PKD is just genius. I’m not really aligned with the first movie though. Great video, thanks for your efforts, it’s immediate sub for me.
Your experience with Bladerunner is very much like my own. And it's not rare for me to have that experience specifically with science fiction and with comedy. I feel like those two genres, especially, reflect the period in which they were produced and build (consciously and unconsciously) on their forebears.
Great work! The only comment I have is: I felt the violence of the kissing scene was intentional. It seemed to me Deckard was asserting (mostly for his own benefit) that he had strong emotions, that he was human. Oh, also, the voice-over and studio-ending theatrical release is like a totally different film to the director cut. On a purely technical note, I am impressed by your very crisp scripting and editing. You deliver a nuanced essay concisely and clearly. Well done.
Yeah, I read that interpretation, as well as one that he was trying to force RACHAEL to feel something since she was doubting herself and her memories. If that's the case, I like the concept, but I think it could've been executed a little better. IDK, I just totallly didn't get that from the scene, particularly how they are treated every other time. Either way, it's not like that scene ruined the movie, it just is a bit head scratching to me lol
Ah! The theatrical cut was absolutely a mess of studio interference. Glad you read about/experienced some of those differences. I think some of the other inserted scenes help the tone, but never spin it all the way back to “being” like the original story.
Interesting read on Rachel in the novel, I always interpreted her last action as out of spite and revenge towards Deckard, thwarting all he has worked for throughout the novel. The Final Cut definitely improves Blade Runner, if I don't misremember I read somewhere Harrison Ford disliked having the voice over that he intentionally put in a bad performance so they wouldn't use it, but the studio just went "thanks!" and put it in the film.
Ooh ok so you think it was revenge towards Deckard as a person, and not that he was killing AIs? Could potentially be it, since in the beginning she offered to hunt the other AIs...although I'm still not sure if that was a cover in order to try and get him to stop doing it. But see...that's why the book sticks with you. What does it mean! What are the motivations!! Ok, so I also heard that rumor from a friend but didn't have time to verify it so it didn't make the video. I need to go see if Ford was like "screw this - I'm making it bad!" lol
Very cool video, interesting topic! I will nicely yell thought 😅. Blade Runner isn’t about deckard or Rachel. It’s about the ideas, the moments. The same way the book raises questions, blade runner implies so much depth only your imagination can match (much like a book and its advantages over movies and TV). You hear an off hand comment about how a woman “wouldn’t be living in a place like this if she could afford a snake” which makes you wonder what happened in this world that artificial creatures would be less valuable that real ones. The paper unicorn at the end is one of the greatest moments in cinema, has so much depth in one moment, it’s literally perfect. It’s not oh look I found a chip in my arm, or a barcode on my wrist. It also is great because deckard himself questions why Rachel couldn’t realize she wasn’t real. Finally the tears in the rain speech speaks for itself. But consider this, Roy is frank villain in this movie. He murders, he has a superiority complex, he’s insane. But in that final moment you have empathy for him. You see how his life experiences have been devalued by his nature and just the nature of dying. I imagine there’ll be a time when I wish I could live just a bit more longer, that my story deserves to play out more, that my life and experiences will be lost to time. Those three moments will always stay with me
I love sheep. Pkd books are always so wild and they communicate so much about humanity. The artificial humanity of "you aren't human if you don't care about an animal" is a fascinating critique of how we extend and retract humanity.
I totally get your take on the Blade Runner movie. It isn't paced the same as a modern movie. When I first saw it, I was expecting more of an action/sci fi. I had to look at it again for what it was to appreciate it more.
Bladerunner asks *some* interesting questions, but it's definitely one of those films that I watch for its visuals and contemplating the setting more than feeling enthralled by the actual plot or characters. The city somehow feels more authentic than many of those it inspired, although I haven't been able to put my finger on exactly *why* for years. I'd also hasten to add that the movie absolutely nails its futuristic urban noir to an extent that I've never seen in any other film- admittedly though, I'm not much for the more traditional presentations of the noir genre, so there's that. All that said, totally agree that 15:48 was just a bizarre inclusion regardless of analysis. Even speaking as a dude, it's so viscerally off-putting that I just don't understand what it was intended to communicate.
I agree with your ranking. I read the book first and consumed all three in a fairly short period of time like you did and I honestly feel the same way towards the first movie. I did have similar feelings about the romance in the book at first but after thinking about it some more, I feel like it follows along with the themes of shallowness in the society that are presented.
I think my rankings would be 1. 2049 2. Androids 3. Bladerunner But I could switch 1&2. I was surprised I didn’t love the 80’s film more. Definitely impressed by the visuals and Tears in the Rain scene, but I felt like I had seen all of its elements before. I think I put Androids second because it had too much going on, and the religious critique didn’t land for me. 2049 spoke to me the most. It’s been updated to reflect the current trends of technology exacerbating loneliness. Btw, I think you’ll love World of Ice and Fire. Looking forward to getting your thoughts on it!
Wow, it really seems like we have the exact same feelings about the stories! I agree that the religious commentary felt out of place - more like it was doing too much in too short of a time span in the novel. I'm 1/3 through a different novel right now and then starting World. Can't wait!
It took me years for the "love" scene between Deckard and Rachel to click with me, but the way I see it, they're both replicants with limited (implanted) "memories". It's brought up several times, most replicant characters seem to have "precious photos" that are important to them. The awkwardness of that scene is because it is both Deckard and Rachel's first times, as well as everything they know about that type of situation being an implanted memory. The scene is two androids going through the motions of a love scene, so as humans watching it, it feels so off and weird.
My recollection is that in the novel, Deckard does take the test and is verified as human. I also recall that Blade Runner proclaims itself as only loosely inspired by the novel. My understanding is also that Harrison Ford wasn't getting along with Sean Young while filming, and that's why Ridley Scott decided to film their interactions in a more hostile manner. Finally, I've heard that Rutger Hauer made up that final speech. One of my quibbles with the book is that the andies aren't supposed to have empathy even for each other, but then it doesn't make sense that Rachel would be so upset by Deckard retiring the escaped andies. I think it's unfortunate that A. E. Nourse's The Bladerunner has never been adapted and Ridley Scott owns the rights simply so he could use that title.
I think both adaptations obscure the main character (Roy Batty in Bladerunner, Joi in 2049). The book makes this obfuscation even stranger - that the humans are so busy being entertained that the actual main characters aren't even in the story (arguably). But at least 2049 has what I consider the actual point hit home: does it matter? Does it matter what K is? Does it matter that Joi is a program? Does it matter if Deckard's dog is a real dog? Humans see replicants as not real. Replicants see programs as not real. Does it matter?
A book I really love and think you will too is 2017s thrawn. Just amazing pros and super engaging story. The best timoyth zahn book imo it's what really got me into star wars
So ranking these I am really conflicted. I have been a fan of this franchise forever. My favorite t-shirt ever had an android on it dreaming of an electric sheep. If gun to head I had to choose I would go with 2049 first as a perfect distillation of the previous work, then book and original movie (final cut only) tied.
i get BR 2049 isnt perfect by any means, but i adore it. The "Subversion" within the story is heartbreakingly brilliant. I genuinly empathize with k. even tho he was played very restrained, i could feel the emotions in almost every scene. i just wish Denis Velnuve had at least manage to capture Dune the way he did Bladerunner. (i fully understand the movies dont really capture the book. i love Bladerunner 2049 for what it is)
You should really watch the entire Final Cut of the original Bladerunner when you have a chance. It's a completely different film. There's more that's different in it than just the ending scene, most notably it lacks the terrible voice over that runs throughout the theatrical release which Harrison Ford has stated that he purposefully attempted to sabotage with poor voice acting because he thought it was stupid, and the director, Ridley Scott, didn't want it either. But the studio forced Harrison to do it. 12:00 - A lack of appreciation for a progenitor film because of familiarity with its derivatives is what I refer to as the "Ender's Game Paradox." I first became aware of this phenomena when the 2013 film, "Ender's Game" (another movie starring Harrison Ford, ironically) came out. A lot of people were talking about how other books and movies had done what it did, and thus, they thought it was the copier. When in fact, all of the material they were citing was influenced by the original book. Yeah... the romance in both the book and the film of Bladerunner... aren't great. I will say that the "forced kiss scene" is just something that doesn't translate into the modern conceptualization of sexual expression though. It gives a lot of people nowadays "the ick," but at the time, both women and men considered it an amazing kiss. I've often used DADoES and BR as a great example of how the "feel" of a story can be perfectly adapted without using any of the actual plot. Even whole characters can be changed. The first two seasons of the new Interview with the Vampire TV show are another great example. And yes, Bladrunner 2049 is freakin' amazing. Only film I've seen in the movie theater four times in 3 days. I totally get why so many people today don't really love the original BR that much. Even if you'd watched the Final Cut version (which is definitely the better option), I doubt it would have been your favorite. Bladrunner 2049, then the Final Cut BR, then DADoES is my order of preference, thought they're all amazing. Btw, if you've never seen it, you should check out the Director's Cut of Terry Gilliam's "Brazil." It doesn't have a book that goes with it (I know!), but it's fantastic and shares some similarities with BR.
I think the toad in the book represents Deckard, whether he's a 'real' toad or not his wife doesn't love him anymore and gets off using a machine at the end of the day 😄 Another thing to note is that humans don't really develop empathy if you 'retire' them by age 4 either, so replicants arent psychopaths, theyre just... children. OUR children, playing with the spiders etc. Kinda horrifying appropriately. I also was left a little cold the first time I saw the movie but it stuck in my mind and I came back to it until it became one of my all time top 10! NEVER seen the theatrical though, you've GOT to watch the Directors or Final cut!!!! 2049 a rare actually worthy sequel imo, liked it a lot glad I got to finally see both in cinema this year.
When it first came out, Bladerunner was panned by everyone. It wasn't until the director's cut that general opinion turned positive. Still, many people criticised the original novel, and many preferred 2049 over the original.
100% agree with your take on the first movie. It's so influential that it feels rote, the kiss scene is gross (I think the director intended it to be romantic but as a modern viewer it looks more like SA), and the pacing is slow to the point where the themes aren't even explored very thoroughly.
The movie replicants are genetically engineered, so they are closer to "clones" than robots. This is in the opening text of the "Final Cut" so I can't remember if it was in the theatrical, but there is at least a line or two of dialogue that state this also. The scene with Rachel is supposed to be very uncomfortable. Decker is essentially a slave catcher, and Rachel, a child of only a few years of age is forced into a situation where she has to submit to the advances of this space catcher in order to survive. The movies are themselves the empathy tests. They make the replicants take the empathy test to prove they are not human, and yet the whole movie is testing if we see the replicants as people or if we dehumanize them, this making the narrative itself our empathy test.
I watched Blade Runner for the first time during the pandemic, followed by the book and the 2049 and liked all of them. I liked Blade Runner's story the best, though I watched the director's cut version so perhaps the changed ending might have impacted that. Honestly, the thing that stood out to me the most, experiencing the series for the first time? The visuals of the 1980's movie still held up tremendously well! The visual style and cinematography still felt incredible, even though it's been mimicked many times since and movie/game making technology has improved dramatically. Also, you didn't mention it, so not sure if you're aware of it, but there was also a video game made in the 1990's which follows one of Deckard's colleagues during the time of the film. There's some occasional cameos from Blade Runner proper, but in it's own separate thing and asks its' own questions relating to sentience. Never played it personally, but saw a Let's Play of it and it seemed to be quite well done with an interesting story.
It’s funny I noticed that too but forgot to mention it. It’s held up REMARKABLY well. I was never once distracted by it which is like… a big deal. I actually legit think if I had seen the Final Cut I would feel differently. I got chills watching that ending and I think it would’ve brought the entire movie together for me. I think I need to try it again watching it from beginning to end with that ending. And I had no idea there was a video game! How fun!
Big fan of the movies, hate the kissing scene and don’t really agree with the interpretations that are out there. I can see where people are coming from but I think it’s done so sloppily if that’s what was intended. Anyways, even though I’m in the same boat as you and consumed stories inspired by this years before watching the original, there is nothing that quite matches the melancholy but beautiful feel of this film - I will always come back to it and I’m so glad the sequel matches and even improves on it. Really love your commentary comparing the three, especially in how much more human they made the replicants feel in each iteration. I’m curious to see what the upcoming project will focus on, all I know is that Hunter Schafer is at the helm of it so I’m already excited!
I actually think the 80s one is quite modern in how it’s done. It’s quite palatable for a current day audience which I did not expect, I think it has a timeless quality that the 2017 one doesn’t have but I also think sometimes we put too much value on timelessness when some of our favourite stories end up being the ones that feel like the time period they were released in hm, something to think about.
@22:30 What referred as "AI booms" are just how corporations advertise their (not always related) products. Statistical learning (as it was once and more accurately called in the past) and even automation (before computers became cheap) or industrialisation, writing and agriculture (to go further back in time) have always been around and continue be because it is very useful to the working class. What people now mislabel as AI is just another marketing fad to sell unrelated products to ignorant people.
One of the things that’s bothering me more and more is people’s inability to separate robots from AI. I think we believed for a long time that they would develop together but it’s clear now that they are not.
Spoilers for the movies... , , , , I really love both movies. I can't really decide which I like more. The more interesting story in the first is Roy and the replicants by far. In fact you could see Deckard as a bad guy working in the system until the end. They're just afraid of death, and are on a journey to literally meet their maker, asking him for salvation. He can't and they 'kill their god', so to speak. Yet in his last moments, in this nihilist world he finds himself in, Roy learns MERCY. He saves Deckard. With one of the most impactful scenes on film. My only complaint and the sequel is that they spoon-feed some of the questions a bit too much. When revealing who K is or isn't, when Leto talks to Deckard (I think he was miscast). But the overall arc of K (Joe) is so beautiful. What he CHOOSES to fight for. Love is really interesting too. You see her as a lapdog for Leto, but she's scared of him, even lies to him. She's feeling the same struggle any other replicant is. There's so much going on there under the surface. The theatrical cut is definitely not as good as the other. They made him do that cheesy voiceover and the rumor is Ford made it so bad they thought it wouldn't be used 😄. And they took the title Bladerunner from a completely different book they had to but the rights to, just got the cool name, I think about doctors sneaking across borders. The Pluto manga is short and hits on some of the themes. It's worth checking out.
Never watch the theatrical first. It basically ISN'T Blade Runner. ALL of that philosophical novel element is missing aside from Rutgers's monologue Directors cut is the best. Final Cut is SCotts version, but fkks up certain crucial moments.
Blade Runner, more than any other film, made me realise why (for me) books are always better than on screen adaptations. Words cannot express how much I hate that film, yet I love the book it’s supposed to be based on.
In Bladerunner, Deckard is a man who has a subdued stoic personality and muted dead emotions because of the soul-killing drudgery of his job killing Replicants for the government. This is contrasted to the immature but passionate emotions of the Replicants that want to live more than anything. It's why I hate the idea of Deckard as a Replicant because it ruins the contrast between humans and Replicant. Also, it undermines Rachel's story as the person who doesn't realize they're not human.
The violent kiss was a mistake. Ridley Scott said as much. The actress playing Rachel was inexperienced and the kissing wasn’t working. You can see clips of the awkwardness. In one of the many versions, in a commentary, Ridley said something like, “you try things, doesn’t always work out.” I suspect this was the best they had to work with and it doesn’t work (for me). Its not sexy-which was most likely the intention. There’s enough in the movie to read into, just not this scene (for me).
This is fascinating bts info, and I can totally see it in the scene. It's awkward! And it's not uncomfortable in a way that feels intentional! (For example, the scene of Ryan Gosling and Ana de Aramas kissing in 2049 is suppper awkward and uncomfortable but it's like soooo clearly the point that it's a good emotion to have during it haha)
Nobody watches the theatrical release unless as an example of why studios should not interfere. I think you'll enjoy Neuromancer, guessing 4.5 for your rating, and somewhat enjoy Snow Crash, guessing 3.5 for your rating.
Haha. Didn’t know that the movie was based on a book. The movies are ok for me as well. That’s the thing. I don’t enjoy science fiction. Too nihilistic and usually devoid of happy endings. Life is already hard and depressing enough. I don’t need to be immersed in sadness and despair that tries to emulate RL. That’s why fantasy, specifically epic fantasy, is my favorite genre. No matter how low it goes it always comes back up because that’s the nature of the game I guess.
Don't worry, NONE of us loved Blade Runner the first time we saw it. But, like Big Lewbowski, it keeps getting better with each rewatch, to the point where you're looking forward to the next rewatch! It's the most vibiest of all vibe movies out there.
Finally someone uses the word "adaptation" (rather than adaption) on the internet. Thank you, Bookborn. ETA: Did Siri just reply with a disinterested "mmm-hmm?" (I'm picturing her rolling her digital eyes and perhaps blowing a digital Bubble Yum bubble)
I think Bladerunner is loved as a film because of its esthetics, music, and special effects. Look at other movies from that same time period, and they're just not on the same level. The story stinks. Legend has a better story and it's still not very good. Terminator and Freejack have better stories and even though they were made later, visually they're not as good...but Bladerunner is way above them in the film pantheon. Note: Bladerunner is also an adaptation of Blade Runner by William S. Burroughs, not just PKD. I've read/seen all three and I always think of the book as a totally different work.
do you think the fact that you read the blade runner novel affected your view of the first film? bookfans always will say that the original source material is better than the adaptation.
It certainly set expectations for the themes.So yes it probably did, although I went in ready to love it and not compare it to the book, I don’t think I succeeded 😂
Blade Runner Theatrical cut imo is 6,5/10, The Final cut is one of the best films i've ever seen, it really is night and day. The theatrical cut is a mess riddled with bad decisions, studio meddling, with some genius aspects to it. The final cut almost completely fixes the worst aspects of the theatrical and greatly enhances the genius aspects.
never seem the theatrical cut kind of glad I havent it definitely sounds not as good. the narrative voice over is essential to the vibe. I hate that movies dont do it anymore. Older movies top the best movie list but we refuse to make movies like that anymore. no wonder new movies rarely make the top movie lists.
Blade runner is a masterpiece. In 10 years, you should revisit it. It's like a 2001: A Space Odyssey.. In a 100 years if civilization still exists, it will watch Blade Runner not the sequel.
I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd probably extend it to say... in 100 years, they'll still be reading Do Androids Dream, not watching either movie.
I started this video, stopped, and listened to the audiobook on youtube, so i could watch your video 😂. I hate to say though, I feel the book and movie are overrated. I didnt feel much weight to either. Dick never seems to know what he's trying to say, just set up and subverts expections, then some vague emotional moments, so many plot holes and scenes that dont quite make sense
I don't read much, but a sf crit book I read claimed PKD is the best. I had high expectations so was disappointed that his books are detective novels. But you're right, they stick with you. Ubik was supposed to be the best, but I think Clans is the best.
I think it may have something to do with the theme of trying to find your place in a world that does not really need you in the same way it has in the past. A lot of male role models of the past are not really applicable to today’s society anymore because they were created in a time where patriarchal structures and toxic masculinity were accepted without question and sometimes even encouraged.
We are no where near close to actual AI of any of the media in the book. AI as a word, for tech was used to describe any kind of algorithm from simple to complex, and its use now, more than ever is just marketing. LLM and such aren't new technology, the new-ness is just large amount of data it can train from. Much like "data" its just a huge marketing term. As for "creativity", its not about creativity, genAi has the ability to greatly take from the work its trained off of, for no other reason than to devalue the worker. When creatives complain, its not about whether a piece of slop, generated by some "ai" is good or not, its more about "ai" getting good enough so companies can further devalue the work. Its capitalism, which as a system, needs to essentially isolate and dehumanize its workers in order to maximize profits, and in some ways 2049 kinda touches on it. Part of 2049 is the sort of the air of depression, of lacking connection. Its why K is unable to form connections, being isolated devalued and dehumanized, hes a skin job after all. What he does on his off time does not matter, its the job that matters. His only inherit value is his work, and his willingness to carry on and continue that work. When he believes hes special, he has a breakdown yes, and part of it in my eyes is him being angry because in the framework the world exists in he, his only value is work, and this is clearly a disruption of that. In hearing he is special its breaks that framework and he I think acknowledges partially how truly lonely he is.
Nah, why'd you intentionally watch the theatrical cut 😭 Blade Runner was infamously tampered with by the studio and completely ruined the point of the movie to the point that Blade Runner is literally the sole reason why Director's Cuts of movies are things at all in the first place. It is not just the fact that the ending of Blade Runner is different that makes the theatrical cut. The theatrical cut and the Final Cut are just such vastly different experiences that it's too the point where I would straight up say the theatrical cut is a bad movie, where as the Final Cut is one of my all time favourites. The theatrical cut is completely irrelevant in this day and age and should really not be anyone's first impression of the movie. Please watch the Final Cut.
Bladerunner 2049 is absolutely amazing. The idea that we all want to be special, we all want to be 'the one.' Yet even after realizing he is not 'the one' ("we all wish it was us" line hits hard here), K does the virtuous thing, sacrificing himself, showcasing how truly human he is. Truly outstanding.
Yes yes YES! to all of this - that's exactly what I got. Also that line was sooo good and so sad
I loved Blade Runner 2049 and thought it was better over the original film.
He is not the one.
He is HIM
My film professor explained why he thought blade runner was brilliant, and I kind of agree with his read on it. Replicants like Roy Batty are the actual main characters. They have a tragic backstory, and a time sensitive goal that drives them to live their lives to the fullest. But instead, we're following Deckard, who is just coasting through life and barely showing any emotion. Imo, the point isnt if Deckard is a Replicant, but the fact that a human can act more robotic and empty than an android. Watching the movie again through that lense, made me genuinely love the movie so much more. The kiss is still so weird and out of place, though, imo 😄
Ok I love this reading???? Incredible! I want to rewatch with the Final Cut anyway and I’ll for sure be keeping this in mind…
@@Bookborn Yes! Blade Runner is my favorite movie of all time and honestly a lot of the complaints you have about the movie are things that I think make the movie great (minus the kiss scene...) because it allows so much room for the viewer to uncover much of the meaning for themselves. With that being said you definitely need to watch the Final Cut instead of the theatrical. I think most people who love the movie do not really even consider the theatrical release to be the "real" version of the movie. Director's cut and Final cut are marginally different so either would be fine to watch, basically the Final Cut is a slightly updated version of the Director's cut. The "tears in rain" monologue is definitely the most powerful moment in the movie, and I get your complaint about feeling like it could have been explored more but I would recommend re-watching it and see if you still agree with that assessment. I think the movie does explore the question of humanity much more than you're giving it credit for, it's just done in subtle ways.
Bladerunner is my favorite film of all time, but I totally understand the “it was just OK” reaction. The way you phrased it-that it was a bit lackluster because you had seen so many things inspired by it-makes a lot of sense.
I’m old, so it just blew my little mind when I originally saw it, but you can’t expect that from viewers today. It reminds me of how my students all love the prequels more than the original Star Wars trilogy.
And as a longtime fan of Philip K. Dick, “the execution was lacking, but the ideas are great” might be the most appropriate way to sum up his writing. I think some sci-fi authors are “craft writers,” meaning they focus on story fundamentals like characterization, dialogue, etc. more than plot, and some are all about the big ideas that are just burning a hole in their brains and they do their best to wrap a functional story around it. Dick falls squarely into the latter category. He’ll always be one of my favorites, but his characters are mostly vehicles for concepts & ideas rather than people you’ll get attached to.
The "Tears in Rain" was mostly improvised and rewritten by the actor Rutger Hauer. I guess he must have a been a book reader as well :)
Thanks for another fascinating video, Bookborn! Your thoughtful and nuanced video essays are 100% my favourite things on RUclips.
I think the fact the replicant characters are so fleshed out and sympathetic while Deckard and so many of the “human” characters are fairly deplorable is one of the most striking and resonating thematic elements of the movie.
Also, if you ever have the chance to see this movie in 35mm absolutely do it. It was like watching it for the first time again.
I definitely think that Deckard not being personable is intentional the fact that androids are more emotive and likeable makes me wonder if the distinction between Android and human is even important.
Something interesting to note about the creation of the book is what inspired it. PKD said he got the idea while researching for Man In The High Castle where he read an account by a Nazi hearing the screams of people being tortured and he was more concerned with them stopping because it bothered him. So the book was meant to explore what it is to be without empathy.
As an aside, I read the book after I saw the movie because the movie came out when I was very very young and I always struggled with the book. I loved the movie but 2049 took it to another level in my mind and is now my favorite
I love that you jumped on this topic - I know you're typically Fantasy so it's great to see you delve into Sci-Fi and bring your research and thoughts to the deep stories there. Considering this deep dive you've done, which was really great. I'm wondering if you've ever read Isaac Asimov's " Positronic Man " which was made into the movie Bicentennial Man with Robin William. It fits perfectly in your analysis here. I liked both the novel and the movie.
Thanks for this video.
Rutger Hauer added the "tears in the rain" part and they liked it so they kept it in the film. Blade Runner doesn't work if Deckard is a replicant. His whole character arch is discovering his humanity again. I know Ridley Scott says he is today but he's also changed his mind a thousand times about that over the last 40 years. Harrison Ford said he was told he was human, the screenwriter said it was human. Scott jumped on the bandwagon after it started to gain traction over the next decade after its' release. He's acted like he was much more clever than he really is. That Hollywood ego thing. I recommend Dangerous Days, the making of Blade Runner. If you like the behind the scenes stuff, this is an excellent documentary. Not the youtube version though, which I was told is really cut down.
I think it's better that it's a question on whether he is human or not - that's definitely how the book feels. I don't know if the question needs to be answered for the story to make sense, for me personally. I think the question muddles the line between replicant and human, which feels like the theme of all three pieces to varying degrees.
I do loooove behind the scenes stuff so thank you for the rec! I'll watch behind the scenes stuff of things I haven't even seen 🤣
Great vid!
Maybe you could do a similar video about Ghost in the shell and some of its adaptations
I agreed with pretty much everything you said in this video (although I think I liked 2049 even more than you did) so instead of trying to cancel you for your Blade Runner opinion I will give you this clapping emoji 👏
Thanks for the Validation John, we can be cancelled together 😌 lmao
I think this is honestly one of your best videos! I’ve always loved Bladerunner (2049 especially) but “Adroids” has been sitting on my shelf for years. Definitely inspired to finally read it. Really interesting how you link the questions/fears of the time the novel was written to how we see/what we fear about AI now.
Thank you!! I'm really proud of this one actually so I appreciate the comment :) And you should def read it, it's super quick - only about 200 pages and pretty suspenseful so it flies by
Thank you. I really enjoy your analysis of both the book and the film.
Great analysis of the book and the two major film adaptations. I enjoyed the book and Dick's style.
My ranking
1. Blade Runner 2049
2. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep
3. Blade Runner
I love that you see the amazing world building in the book! The author, Philip K Dick, has many amazing ideas and world building but I don’t think he is very good at writing compelling stories. That’s why many of his books make great adaptations (like blade runner, minority report, and man in the high castle) but the books are hard to get through, at least for me. This is how I feel about much of the “old” sci-fi that I read.
Btw, I didn't learn that Minority Report was based on a novel until THIS WEEK!! I was obsessssed with that movie as a kid, I've seen it a thousand times. I'm for sure going to go read it now!
Some other people have commented that to me after my review of Androids, and it actually makes me more interested to read his other stuff. If I go in knowing the ideas are fantastic even if the execution isn't always perfect, I'll still really enjoy stuff. I'm more of an idea person anyway.
I had the same experience you had with Blade Runner. Felt too familiar and formulaic, which is unfair to the movie because like you said it is the original. However, I was completely blown away with Blade Runner 2049. The movie has stuck with me for years and made me love and appreciate the original more. I still wonder if Joi really loved Joe and if that even matters. It is one of the bleakest, loneliest, yet most hopeful movies I have ever seen.
Great analysis as always
Oh boy, I sure have a lot to say about this topic.
Cyberpunk is my favourite subgnre of Sci-fi. From books, to animation, from videogames to graphic novels, from tabletop games to movies, if it's cyberpunk, I am interested. BladeRunner 2049 is probably my favourite movie of all time.
I agree with you assessment of the book. Philip K Dick is the idea guys. I've been through a lot of Dick in my time, and while it always gave me something to think about, it never blew my mind while it lasted (sorry, couldn't t resist the joke, I'm literally a child haha). His writing is never anything to write home about, but the ideas are awlway always gripping. And I think the movies follow this really well, while still being their own thing. The three together make up an outstanding trilogy that explores three key elements of the human condition.
Do Androids, for me, is mostly about how when humanity ruind it's world, and is literally dying in clutter, making things all but useless, we still had a way to comerrcilaize what was left. Our emphaty. Who knows if any animals are even left? Deckards's neighbours animal just as well might be fake. What matters is status, the appearance. The first movie is about fear. The entire chase sequence with Roy and Deckard really drives home how terrible it is to live in fear as a thinking feeling android. Also Ridley Scott and Vangelis dreamed up such a unique audiovisual world, that it set cyberpunk apart from sci-fi forever. And of course as you and others pointed out the third movie does an outstanding exploration of what it means to matter, and how we can fill our ultimately meaningless, mayfly lives with meaning, when the world towers over our tiny existence. All supremely human. All questions that are tales as old as time.
If you enjoyed these books, I recommend Neuromancer for exploring what more obscure, software like form of AI might mean on a societal level and Snow Crash for a genuinely well written and captivating adventure. Other mediums of cyberpunk that might also be interesting: Transitor is a great indie game about how art could help in our self-actualaztion in such a soulless future, and of course the classic, yet brilliant Ghost in the Shell Movie, for a great, in depth look in how much our bodies who we even are.
Sorry this ended up being an absolute diarrhea of thought, but I'm just so passionate about this. Maybe I should just write an essay.
Hi Bookborn. Just wanted to say I appreciate it when you make videos about more niche things you're interested in, even if they aren't as successful. Blade Runner is my favourite film as well, so I might be biased in that regard though.
Edit: If you're interested in books that comment in ai you should look at neuromancer. Really difficult, yet really rewarding.
I liked your analysis. I think you are correct about why you found Bladerunner less than you hoped, it has been hugely influential and so when you came to it you had seen it all before. When I watched it for the first time it was ground breaking. 2049 is wonderful. I feel Villeneuve does his homework. He doesnt inflict his vision on a story, I think his movies are more of a collaboration between his genius and the vision of the original author.
_Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?_ really is an all time great book title.
I would recommend book of the new sun for your next read. It goes into this idea of machines being more creative than people and many other really cool ideas. Gene Wolfe is an S tier writer. He has won many Nebula awards. George R.R. Martin has written with him and has said BOTNS is what he wished he could do with ASOIAF.
I love PDK however because he wrote so many novels in a few weeks high on speed they can sometimes be a little clunky, but he always plays with ideas and themes that stick with you after reading. Also, even though his writing style isn't the most elegant, the books are always short so I never resent the books for that.
Yeah, it seems that the consensus from PDK fans are that his ideas are stellar but his books lack some finesse in terms of actual plotting/structure. But like you said - they are so short, that even with some lacking execution, they are still enjoyable.
@@Bookborn A great follow up to this video would be doing book/move of A Scanner Darkly
I just recently read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and its was a jarring experience to go from how much I love the movie to being really depressed by the book. The movies isn't a happy movie but the book is so depressing. When he gets his wife to put in the "obedient wife" code i died. I kind of feel like the original text could be adapted into a completely different movie.
DADOES > Blade Runner > 2049
I saw Blade Runner before reading the book, and I remember thinking it was good but there were a lot of ideas that really stuck with me and my appreciation grew over time. A few years later I read the book and it was my first Philip K Dick book and was instantly hooked. I thought the book did a much better job of posing the questions, and even included some scenes like the unknown police station which really just mess with your understanding of what's going on. I'm one of the few who really didn't get into 2049; it was fine but it didn't have as much of an impact on me as the others.
I hope you'll try some other Philip K Dick stories as he's definitely a huge influence on the genre even if people don't know. His execution is usually far from perfect, but his ideas are way out there.
Commenting to say, I'm just about to read Do Androids Dream...
But as soon as I finish, this video is first on my watchlist!
Excellent analysis! Years back I presented a paper on 2049, and I focused entirely on alienation, objectification, and "reification" because the movie is chock-a-block with ideas that can be explored with Marxist theory, feminist theory, etc. It's a truly fascinating film and you don't even have to discuss AI, it has so much under the surface. The literal projection of a commercial product who has a personality (Joi) onto a sex worker's body was fascinating. And the Voight-Kampff test ensuring that K is suitably alienated from his work. And so much more!
Omg, I love both movies and Blade Runner 2047 is my favourite movie of all time. Cyberpunk is also my favourite science fiction subgenre, but for some reason I haven't read the book yet.
I'll come back to this video when I've read the book, but I wanted to share my appreciation for this video already :D
The book is super quick! I read it in two days!
Blade Runner is one of my favorite movies simply for the immaculate ~vibes~
BR2049 is a masterpiece, and PKD is just genius. I’m not really aligned with the first movie though. Great video, thanks for your efforts, it’s immediate sub for me.
Your experience with Bladerunner is very much like my own. And it's not rare for me to have that experience specifically with science fiction and with comedy. I feel like those two genres, especially, reflect the period in which they were produced and build (consciously and unconsciously) on their forebears.
Great work!
The only comment I have is: I felt the violence of the kissing scene was intentional. It seemed to me Deckard was asserting (mostly for his own benefit) that he had strong emotions, that he was human.
Oh, also, the voice-over and studio-ending theatrical release is like a totally different film to the director cut.
On a purely technical note, I am impressed by your very crisp scripting and editing. You deliver a nuanced essay concisely and clearly. Well done.
Yeah, I read that interpretation, as well as one that he was trying to force RACHAEL to feel something since she was doubting herself and her memories. If that's the case, I like the concept, but I think it could've been executed a little better. IDK, I just totallly didn't get that from the scene, particularly how they are treated every other time. Either way, it's not like that scene ruined the movie, it just is a bit head scratching to me lol
Haha, I get that. Sometimes scenes are *too* ambiguous.
I'm glad about what you said about the kiss scene, and about the original Bladerunner in general. I've always felt this way about this movie.
Ah! The theatrical cut was absolutely a mess of studio interference. Glad you read about/experienced some of those differences. I think some of the other inserted scenes help the tone, but never spin it all the way back to “being” like the original story.
Interesting read on Rachel in the novel, I always interpreted her last action as out of spite and revenge towards Deckard, thwarting all he has worked for throughout the novel.
The Final Cut definitely improves Blade Runner, if I don't misremember I read somewhere Harrison Ford disliked having the voice over that he intentionally put in a bad performance so they wouldn't use it, but the studio just went "thanks!" and put it in the film.
Ooh ok so you think it was revenge towards Deckard as a person, and not that he was killing AIs? Could potentially be it, since in the beginning she offered to hunt the other AIs...although I'm still not sure if that was a cover in order to try and get him to stop doing it. But see...that's why the book sticks with you. What does it mean! What are the motivations!!
Ok, so I also heard that rumor from a friend but didn't have time to verify it so it didn't make the video. I need to go see if Ford was like "screw this - I'm making it bad!" lol
Such a great sci fi stoty! Blade runner is my favorite movie of all time
Very cool video, interesting topic! I will nicely yell thought 😅. Blade Runner isn’t about deckard or Rachel. It’s about the ideas, the moments. The same way the book raises questions, blade runner implies so much depth only your imagination can match (much like a book and its advantages over movies and TV). You hear an off hand comment about how a woman “wouldn’t be living in a place like this if she could afford a snake” which makes you wonder what happened in this world that artificial creatures would be less valuable that real ones. The paper unicorn at the end is one of the greatest moments in cinema, has so much depth in one moment, it’s literally perfect. It’s not oh look I found a chip in my arm, or a barcode on my wrist. It also is great because deckard himself questions why Rachel couldn’t realize she wasn’t real. Finally the tears in the rain speech speaks for itself. But consider this, Roy is frank villain in this movie. He murders, he has a superiority complex, he’s insane. But in that final moment you have empathy for him. You see how his life experiences have been devalued by his nature and just the nature of dying. I imagine there’ll be a time when I wish I could live just a bit more longer, that my story deserves to play out more, that my life and experiences will be lost to time. Those three moments will always stay with me
My favorite part of 2049 was the moment about being made of 1s and 0s rather than the ATCG of DNA. Quite profound
I love sheep. Pkd books are always so wild and they communicate so much about humanity. The artificial humanity of "you aren't human if you don't care about an animal" is a fascinating critique of how we extend and retract humanity.
Literally finished the book last night! What oddly great tomin
I totally get your take on the Blade Runner movie. It isn't paced the same as a modern movie. When I first saw it, I was expecting more of an action/sci fi. I had to look at it again for what it was to appreciate it more.
Yes, I actually want to rewatch it with the final cut - I think the change to the ending would also really change my experience of it over all
Bladerunner asks *some* interesting questions, but it's definitely one of those films that I watch for its visuals and contemplating the setting more than feeling enthralled by the actual plot or characters. The city somehow feels more authentic than many of those it inspired, although I haven't been able to put my finger on exactly *why* for years.
I'd also hasten to add that the movie absolutely nails its futuristic urban noir to an extent that I've never seen in any other film- admittedly though, I'm not much for the more traditional presentations of the noir genre, so there's that.
All that said, totally agree that 15:48 was just a bizarre inclusion regardless of analysis. Even speaking as a dude, it's so viscerally off-putting that I just don't understand what it was intended to communicate.
I agree with your ranking. I read the book first and consumed all three in a fairly short period of time like you did and I honestly feel the same way towards the first movie. I did have similar feelings about the romance in the book at first but after thinking about it some more, I feel like it follows along with the themes of shallowness in the society that are presented.
Amen, I wish authors would only add romance where it's important or adds to the story in a special way.
I think my rankings would be
1. 2049
2. Androids
3. Bladerunner
But I could switch 1&2.
I was surprised I didn’t love the 80’s film more. Definitely impressed by the visuals and Tears in the Rain scene, but I felt like I had seen all of its elements before.
I think I put Androids second because it had too much going on, and the religious critique didn’t land for me.
2049 spoke to me the most. It’s been updated to reflect the current trends of technology exacerbating loneliness.
Btw, I think you’ll love World of Ice and Fire. Looking forward to getting your thoughts on it!
Wow, it really seems like we have the exact same feelings about the stories! I agree that the religious commentary felt out of place - more like it was doing too much in too short of a time span in the novel.
I'm 1/3 through a different novel right now and then starting World. Can't wait!
It took me years for the "love" scene between Deckard and Rachel to click with me, but the way I see it, they're both replicants with limited (implanted) "memories". It's brought up several times, most replicant characters seem to have "precious photos" that are important to them. The awkwardness of that scene is because it is both Deckard and Rachel's first times, as well as everything they know about that type of situation being an implanted memory. The scene is two androids going through the motions of a love scene, so as humans watching it, it feels so off and weird.
My recollection is that in the novel, Deckard does take the test and is verified as human. I also recall that Blade Runner proclaims itself as only loosely inspired by the novel. My understanding is also that Harrison Ford wasn't getting along with Sean Young while filming, and that's why Ridley Scott decided to film their interactions in a more hostile manner. Finally, I've heard that Rutger Hauer made up that final speech.
One of my quibbles with the book is that the andies aren't supposed to have empathy even for each other, but then it doesn't make sense that Rachel would be so upset by Deckard retiring the escaped andies.
I think it's unfortunate that A. E. Nourse's The Bladerunner has never been adapted and Ridley Scott owns the rights simply so he could use that title.
I think both adaptations obscure the main character (Roy Batty in Bladerunner, Joi in 2049). The book makes this obfuscation even stranger - that the humans are so busy being entertained that the actual main characters aren't even in the story (arguably). But at least 2049 has what I consider the actual point hit home: does it matter? Does it matter what K is? Does it matter that Joi is a program? Does it matter if Deckard's dog is a real dog? Humans see replicants as not real. Replicants see programs as not real. Does it matter?
A book I really love and think you will too is 2017s thrawn. Just amazing pros and super engaging story. The best timoyth zahn book imo it's what really got me into star wars
So ranking these I am really conflicted. I have been a fan of this franchise forever. My favorite t-shirt ever had an android on it dreaming of an electric sheep. If gun to head I had to choose I would go with 2049 first as a perfect distillation of the previous work, then book and original movie (final cut only) tied.
i get BR 2049 isnt perfect by any means, but i adore it. The "Subversion" within the story is heartbreakingly brilliant. I genuinly empathize with k. even tho he was played very restrained, i could feel the emotions in almost every scene. i just wish Denis Velnuve had at least manage to capture Dune the way he did Bladerunner. (i fully understand the movies dont really capture the book. i love Bladerunner 2049 for what it is)
You should really watch the entire Final Cut of the original Bladerunner when you have a chance. It's a completely different film. There's more that's different in it than just the ending scene, most notably it lacks the terrible voice over that runs throughout the theatrical release which Harrison Ford has stated that he purposefully attempted to sabotage with poor voice acting because he thought it was stupid, and the director, Ridley Scott, didn't want it either. But the studio forced Harrison to do it.
12:00 - A lack of appreciation for a progenitor film because of familiarity with its derivatives is what I refer to as the "Ender's Game Paradox." I first became aware of this phenomena when the 2013 film, "Ender's Game" (another movie starring Harrison Ford, ironically) came out. A lot of people were talking about how other books and movies had done what it did, and thus, they thought it was the copier. When in fact, all of the material they were citing was influenced by the original book.
Yeah... the romance in both the book and the film of Bladerunner... aren't great. I will say that the "forced kiss scene" is just something that doesn't translate into the modern conceptualization of sexual expression though. It gives a lot of people nowadays "the ick," but at the time, both women and men considered it an amazing kiss.
I've often used DADoES and BR as a great example of how the "feel" of a story can be perfectly adapted without using any of the actual plot. Even whole characters can be changed. The first two seasons of the new Interview with the Vampire TV show are another great example.
And yes, Bladrunner 2049 is freakin' amazing. Only film I've seen in the movie theater four times in 3 days. I totally get why so many people today don't really love the original BR that much. Even if you'd watched the Final Cut version (which is definitely the better option), I doubt it would have been your favorite.
Bladrunner 2049, then the Final Cut BR, then DADoES is my order of preference, thought they're all amazing.
Btw, if you've never seen it, you should check out the Director's Cut of Terry Gilliam's "Brazil." It doesn't have a book that goes with it (I know!), but it's fantastic and shares some similarities with BR.
How would you say this stacked up against what Asimov concluded with the Robot to Foundation series?
Fun trivia. The actress that played Rachel in the movie is the same actress from Ace Aventura, you can guess which one😅
I think the toad in the book represents Deckard, whether he's a 'real' toad or not his wife doesn't love him anymore and gets off using a machine at the end of the day 😄 Another thing to note is that humans don't really develop empathy if you 'retire' them by age 4 either, so replicants arent psychopaths, theyre just... children. OUR children, playing with the spiders etc. Kinda horrifying appropriately.
I also was left a little cold the first time I saw the movie but it stuck in my mind and I came back to it until it became one of my all time top 10! NEVER seen the theatrical though, you've GOT to watch the Directors or Final cut!!!!
2049 a rare actually worthy sequel imo, liked it a lot glad I got to finally see both in cinema this year.
When it first came out, Bladerunner was panned by everyone. It wasn't until the director's cut that general opinion turned positive. Still, many people criticised the original novel, and many preferred 2049 over the original.
God I love this channel.
I dont have an insightful comment but im putting this here anyway. For the algorithm!
100% agree with your take on the first movie. It's so influential that it feels rote, the kiss scene is gross (I think the director intended it to be romantic but as a modern viewer it looks more like SA), and the pacing is slow to the point where the themes aren't even explored very thoroughly.
The movie replicants are genetically engineered, so they are closer to "clones" than robots. This is in the opening text of the "Final Cut" so I can't remember if it was in the theatrical, but there is at least a line or two of dialogue that state this also.
The scene with Rachel is supposed to be very uncomfortable. Decker is essentially a slave catcher, and Rachel, a child of only a few years of age is forced into a situation where she has to submit to the advances of this space catcher in order to survive.
The movies are themselves the empathy tests. They make the replicants take the empathy test to prove they are not human, and yet the whole movie is testing if we see the replicants as people or if we dehumanize them, this making the narrative itself our empathy test.
The through line of all of PKD's work is being unsure of who you are and how you relate to the world.
I watched Blade Runner for the first time during the pandemic, followed by the book and the 2049 and liked all of them. I liked Blade Runner's story the best, though I watched the director's cut version so perhaps the changed ending might have impacted that. Honestly, the thing that stood out to me the most, experiencing the series for the first time? The visuals of the 1980's movie still held up tremendously well! The visual style and cinematography still felt incredible, even though it's been mimicked many times since and movie/game making technology has improved dramatically.
Also, you didn't mention it, so not sure if you're aware of it, but there was also a video game made in the 1990's which follows one of Deckard's colleagues during the time of the film. There's some occasional cameos from Blade Runner proper, but in it's own separate thing and asks its' own questions relating to sentience. Never played it personally, but saw a Let's Play of it and it seemed to be quite well done with an interesting story.
It’s funny I noticed that too but forgot to mention it. It’s held up REMARKABLY well. I was never once distracted by it which is like… a big deal. I actually legit think if I had seen the Final Cut I would feel differently. I got chills watching that ending and I think it would’ve brought the entire movie together for me. I think I need to try it again watching it from beginning to end with that ending.
And I had no idea there was a video game! How fun!
Denis Villeneuve is probably the best science fiction filmmaker in the business right now, 2049 is a modern classic.
You should do this again with
The Godfather novel and movie trilogy.
Interlinked, within cells, interlinked.
Big fan of the movies, hate the kissing scene and don’t really agree with the interpretations that are out there. I can see where people are coming from but I think it’s done so sloppily if that’s what was intended.
Anyways, even though I’m in the same boat as you and consumed stories inspired by this years before watching the original, there is nothing that quite matches the melancholy but beautiful feel of this film - I will always come back to it and I’m so glad the sequel matches and even improves on it.
Really love your commentary comparing the three, especially in how much more human they made the replicants feel in each iteration.
I’m curious to see what the upcoming project will focus on, all I know is that Hunter Schafer is at the helm of it so I’m already excited!
I actually think the 80s one is quite modern in how it’s done. It’s quite palatable for a current day audience which I did not expect, I think it has a timeless quality that the 2017 one doesn’t have but I also think sometimes we put too much value on timelessness when some of our favourite stories end up being the ones that feel like the time period they were released in hm, something to think about.
@22:30 What referred as "AI booms" are just how corporations advertise their (not always related) products. Statistical learning (as it was once and more accurately called in the past) and even automation (before computers became cheap) or industrialisation, writing and agriculture (to go further back in time) have always been around and continue be because it is very useful to the working class. What people now mislabel as AI is just another marketing fad to sell unrelated products to ignorant people.
One of the things that’s bothering me more and more is people’s inability to separate robots from AI. I think we believed for a long time that they would develop together but it’s clear now that they are not.
Nicely done 😊 👋🤓💡⬆
Spoilers for the movies...
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I really love both movies. I can't really decide which I like more. The more interesting story in the first is Roy and the replicants by far. In fact you could see Deckard as a bad guy working in the system until the end. They're just afraid of death, and are on a journey to literally meet their maker, asking him for salvation. He can't and they 'kill their god', so to speak. Yet in his last moments, in this nihilist world he finds himself in, Roy learns MERCY. He saves Deckard. With one of the most impactful scenes on film.
My only complaint and the sequel is that they spoon-feed some of the questions a bit too much. When revealing who K is or isn't, when Leto talks to Deckard (I think he was miscast). But the overall arc of K (Joe) is so beautiful. What he CHOOSES to fight for. Love is really interesting too. You see her as a lapdog for Leto, but she's scared of him, even lies to him. She's feeling the same struggle any other replicant is. There's so much going on there under the surface.
The theatrical cut is definitely not as good as the other. They made him do that cheesy voiceover and the rumor is Ford made it so bad they thought it wouldn't be used 😄. And they took the title Bladerunner from a completely different book they had to but the rights to, just got the cool name, I think about doctors sneaking across borders.
The Pluto manga is short and hits on some of the themes. It's worth checking out.
I hated Jared Leto in 2049 lmao I soooo agree
Bladerunner 2049 is peak core core
Never watch the theatrical first. It basically ISN'T Blade Runner. ALL of that philosophical novel element is missing aside from Rutgers's monologue Directors cut is the best. Final Cut is SCotts version, but fkks up certain crucial moments.
Blade Runner, more than any other film, made me realise why (for me) books are always better than on screen adaptations. Words cannot express how much I hate that film, yet I love the book it’s supposed to be based on.
Avg bookborn W of a video
In Bladerunner, Deckard is a man who has a subdued stoic personality and muted dead emotions because of the soul-killing drudgery of his job killing Replicants for the government. This is contrasted to the immature but passionate emotions of the Replicants that want to live more than anything. It's why I hate the idea of Deckard as a Replicant because it ruins the contrast between humans and Replicant. Also, it undermines Rachel's story as the person who doesn't realize they're not human.
The violent kiss was a mistake. Ridley Scott said as much. The actress playing Rachel was inexperienced and the kissing wasn’t working. You can see clips of the awkwardness. In one of the many versions, in a commentary, Ridley said something like, “you try things, doesn’t always work out.” I suspect this was the best they had to work with and it doesn’t work (for me). Its not sexy-which was most likely the intention. There’s enough in the movie to read into, just not this scene (for me).
This is fascinating bts info, and I can totally see it in the scene. It's awkward! And it's not uncomfortable in a way that feels intentional! (For example, the scene of Ryan Gosling and Ana de Aramas kissing in 2049 is suppper awkward and uncomfortable but it's like soooo clearly the point that it's a good emotion to have during it haha)
the Rachel-Deckard "relationship" in the Harrison movie is just so, so gross; the entire thing feels like a violation
Yeah but have you ever asked when will we get Blade Runner’s prequel “Blade Walker”?
No because I'm a fake fan 😔
With the animal empathy test you can play a lot. Because what about the other side? Can someone have empathy for animals and not fellow humans?
Nobody watches the theatrical release unless as an example of why studios should not interfere. I think you'll enjoy Neuromancer, guessing 4.5 for your rating, and somewhat enjoy Snow Crash, guessing 3.5 for your rating.
Haha. Didn’t know that the movie was based on a book. The movies are ok for me as well. That’s the thing. I don’t enjoy science fiction. Too nihilistic and usually devoid of happy endings. Life is already hard and depressing enough. I don’t need to be immersed in sadness and despair that tries to emulate RL. That’s why fantasy, specifically epic fantasy, is my favorite genre. No matter how low it goes it always comes back up because that’s the nature of the game I guess.
I know exactly what you mean about Bladerunner it wasnt as good as I thought it would be for me either not bad but not amazing
Don't worry, NONE of us loved Blade Runner the first time we saw it. But, like Big Lewbowski, it keeps getting better with each rewatch, to the point where you're looking forward to the next rewatch! It's the most vibiest of all vibe movies out there.
It seems like it will be a grower. I certainly want to try watching it with the final cut at the very least
Finally someone uses the word "adaptation" (rather than adaption) on the internet.
Thank you, Bookborn.
ETA: Did Siri just reply with a disinterested "mmm-hmm?" (I'm picturing her rolling her digital eyes and perhaps blowing a digital Bubble Yum bubble)
I think Bladerunner is loved as a film because of its esthetics, music, and special effects. Look at other movies from that same time period, and they're just not on the same level. The story stinks. Legend has a better story and it's still not very good. Terminator and Freejack have better stories and even though they were made later, visually they're not as good...but Bladerunner is way above them in the film pantheon.
Note: Bladerunner is also an adaptation of Blade Runner by William S. Burroughs, not just PKD.
I've read/seen all three and I always think of the book as a totally different work.
do you think the fact that you read the blade runner novel affected your view of the first film? bookfans always will say that the original source material is better than the adaptation.
It certainly set expectations for the themes.So yes it probably did, although I went in ready to love it and not compare it to the book, I don’t think I succeeded 😂
"theatrical release"... *Crowd boos*.
🧡📚🧡📚🧡📚🧡
Blade Runner Theatrical cut imo is 6,5/10, The Final cut is one of the best films i've ever seen, it really is night and day.
The theatrical cut is a mess riddled with bad decisions, studio meddling, with some genius aspects to it. The final cut almost completely fixes the worst aspects of the theatrical and greatly enhances the genius aspects.
Denis Villeneuve's name is pronounced more like Denee Vil noov
Duh-nee Vil-nuhv
never seem the theatrical cut kind of glad I havent it definitely sounds not as good. the narrative voice over is essential to the vibe. I hate that movies dont do it anymore. Older movies top the best movie list but we refuse to make movies like that anymore. no wonder new movies rarely make the top movie lists.
I can't believe you watched the theatrical cut. I hate the opening monologue so so much.
Blade runner is a masterpiece. In 10 years, you should revisit it. It's like a 2001: A Space Odyssey.. In a 100 years if civilization still exists, it will watch Blade Runner not the sequel.
I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd probably extend it to say... in 100 years, they'll still be reading Do Androids Dream, not watching either movie.
@@Bookborn Maybe you are right but it is sad that most of the contemporary public seem to never appreciate true art, like tears in rain.
I started this video, stopped, and listened to the audiobook on youtube, so i could watch your video 😂.
I hate to say though, I feel the book and movie are overrated. I didnt feel much weight to either. Dick never seems to know what he's trying to say, just set up and subverts expections, then some vague emotional moments, so many plot holes and scenes that dont quite make sense
I don't read much, but a sf crit book I read claimed PKD is the best. I had high expectations so was disappointed that his books are detective novels. But you're right, they stick with you. Ubik was supposed to be the best, but I think Clans is the best.
For some reason men seem to like Blade Runner much more than women.
I think it may have something to do with the theme of trying to find your place in a world that does not really need you in the same way it has in the past. A lot of male role models of the past are not really applicable to today’s society anymore because they were created in a time where patriarchal structures and toxic masculinity were accepted without question and sometimes even encouraged.
We are no where near close to actual AI of any of the media in the book. AI as a word, for tech was used to describe any kind of algorithm from simple to complex, and its use now, more than ever is just marketing. LLM and such aren't new technology, the new-ness is just large amount of data it can train from. Much like "data" its just a huge marketing term. As for "creativity", its not about creativity, genAi has the ability to greatly take from the work its trained off of, for no other reason than to devalue the worker. When creatives complain, its not about whether a piece of slop, generated by some "ai" is good or not, its more about "ai" getting good enough so companies can further devalue the work. Its capitalism, which as a system, needs to essentially isolate and dehumanize its workers in order to maximize profits, and in some ways 2049 kinda touches on it. Part of 2049 is the sort of the air of depression, of lacking connection. Its why K is unable to form connections, being isolated devalued and dehumanized, hes a skin job after all. What he does on his off time does not matter, its the job that matters. His only inherit value is his work, and his willingness to carry on and continue that work. When he believes hes special, he has a breakdown yes, and part of it in my eyes is him being angry because in the framework the world exists in he, his only value is work, and this is clearly a disruption of that. In hearing he is special its breaks that framework and he I think acknowledges partially how truly lonely he is.
Nah, why'd you intentionally watch the theatrical cut 😭 Blade Runner was infamously tampered with by the studio and completely ruined the point of the movie to the point that Blade Runner is literally the sole reason why Director's Cuts of movies are things at all in the first place. It is not just the fact that the ending of Blade Runner is different that makes the theatrical cut. The theatrical cut and the Final Cut are just such vastly different experiences that it's too the point where I would straight up say the theatrical cut is a bad movie, where as the Final Cut is one of my all time favourites. The theatrical cut is completely irrelevant in this day and age and should really not be anyone's first impression of the movie. Please watch the Final Cut.
Of course you didn't like the movie, you watched the terrible version
edit: VILLE NEUVE. 'New city' in french.