if someone said "I lost my job today" in an awkwardly perky tone, I would guess that they did lose their job, but were trying very hard to not fall apart and ended up sounding positive...because they were trying to not feel it was the end of the world. I've lost jobs and that's often how I felt. I actually lost my previous job at the end of February and I did feel weirdly relieved in that case -not because I didn't want employment - because there had been months of stressful "one on one chats" with my boss that left me feeling like everything I was trying to communicate wasn't coming across, and I felt like the job I thought I had wasn't the job my boss thought I had and I'd end up in literal tears. I was just glad for the miscommunication to end, even though I liked the nature of the work and could really use the income. like, I was better for that call to be made than deal with not knowing every day what was going to go wrong.
I came to eventually realize that after that first one on one meeting the end was coming and it was time to start aggressively looking for another job. Amazing how many jobs I had over the course of my lifetime. Too many to count.
We need to try to move the world away from small talk and fibbing. If I am NOT doing well I'm going to speak honestly. I prefer when people are honest and open. It's weird and feels inauthentic when people pretend to be happy and expect me to lie about how I feel... I see that not as an Autistic issue but an issue with societal expectations not matching authentic human emotions and needs.
Yes. Tell me plainly, and be honest. It might sting, but better that, than the dark maze of mirrored walls I have to try and navigate, and hope I figure it out quick enough what the message being communicated.
I tend to agree. But there are moments in which you prefer not to talk about it, or not want anyone to know something is up. There are some unspoken rules about speaking of personal issues, e.g. when meeting new people or work gatherings. Venting about things that are going on in your life on a personal level is often not what people are waiting for, but it is also rude to cut you off and say you dont want to listen to your problems atm. I wish it was this black and white. That you are allowed to just say: Sorry, but I prefer not to discuss this right now. Also when someone starts telling their life story to you.
I've noticed that the more "normal" the person is or seems the less likely they are to enjoy my company so I've developed a bit of an aversion to them because it feels like it's only a matter of time before they realise I'm not one of them. It's why I dread work social events. They are so much effort to appear like a version of myself that work would like to hang out with so that I don't get branded as a bad fit. It took me a while but I learnt to stop saying "You're clearly not ok, what's going on." to everyone. Now it's just for close friends and family.
That first phrase was gold. I heard live heavy metal and went there to peek, and I felt unexpectedly nice. Everyone was weird! So long as I stood silent, avoided eye contact, and looked as if I was high on cocaine ready to kill someone, I didn't have to do anything cognitive to fit in.
Most people I work with already know that I am autistic and I warned them, that I will come across weirdly sometimes. They know I work on that and don’t judge me for that. So that is fine. Also, I think it is very worth it to figure out how to correctly interact with neurotypical people because there are so many of the and they function very similar. So what works for one NT, usually fit the next NT also quite well. ^^
@@various_artists Be honest. It actually works. Says wow I hope you all have a great time, but it's not really my thing. OR say I can go but only for X amount of time. If you can handle 30 minutes, go 30 minutes. I would try to do your best to go to these things, because it's the best chance for people to get to know you. Be yourself, and when you hit your limit say so and bounce.
I can empathise with the unconventional response. I got told my responses were very unconventional when I said I really didn't want to work somewhere where I was not valued and wanted. By demonising some of my pretty mild and unoffensive autistic traits of gentle honesty and enthusiastic dedication I figured they didn't deserve my work ethic. The Council I worked at became very toxic, backstabbing with numerous false accusations I had to constantly prove were untrue. Very exhausting. The upside is that it taught me to keep a good work diary and to know my worth, which I didn't do well beforehand. Now I've peaked with my dream job with good pay and my company loves my honesty and autistic special interests
That, "The Council I worked at became very toxic, backstabbing with numerous false accusations", sounds like what has been heard from multiple sources about our little farm burg's city government: but how can that be happening when pop psychology and secular humanism are insisting people are basically good???
@rowan orre it happens way more for autistic people because we don’t always understand what’s happening and how to avoid it and also our issues with communication and socializing make ppl more likely to feel off about us, and not like us because of that. It’s definitely much harder for autistic ppl to keep a job and be liked at one for those reasons and I wouldn’t minimize that.
I'm not a fan of the premier thing, they make it look like there's a video in the feed and once it really comes out I've seen the thumbnail so many times I assume it's an old video :(
Premieres are also awkward because I'll typically wind up tuning in part way into the stream-like video an miss the beginning. I really don't understand the benefit.
I am NT and get sick of the societal script. I love that you asked people, "What is your superpower?" However, I realize that could be off-putting to some people. Hearing about how others make their living (aka their work) often bores me and doesn't tell me much about them. So, instead of asking "What do you do for a living?" I ask people, "What do you like to do? How do you like to use your time?" Their reply usually generates interesting conversation and allows me to learn about the person. It is much more pleasant to hear about their hobbies/interests and their goals and aspirations instead of their job.
Most neurotypical social standards don't seem to be a result of NTs designing the world to be "comfortable" or efficient for themselves, either. Frankly, NT social scripting in Western liberal democracies seems almost entirely dedicated to distracting neurotypicals from the vagaries and overwhelming depression and oppression of the capitalist socioeconomic structures that have been constricted around humanity in recent centuries. From what I can tell neurotypical social conventions are doing exactly what they're intended to do: perpetuate conservative social standards, oppress those that do not conform with conservative Eurocentric ideals most closely, ensure the labour force remains pliable and "efficient," and minimize or outright prevent any and all forms of social progress away from that standard (except when rabble politics by popularity contest dictates otherwise).
One thing to also think about... To ask about superpowers or hobbies instead of work is also more inclusive. When people ask what I do for a living they make me very uncomfortable because I rarely have employment (because of disabilities), so they force me to bring up a topic I’m sad about. It gets even worse when I see that the other person feels awkward because they asked me about a sensitive topic. Most people have a favorite hobby so that’s a nicer thing to ask about , unless it’s like a business social event, then I guess it’s more natural to ask about what people do for work.
Yeah.. family constantly wonders why I'm the only one that's never at their dinner events. Basically because they ask about work I can't hold because I seem to constantly have a problem with my bosses.
I totally agree. Whenever people ask me what I do for a living I fell like they want to put me in a slot based on the societal pecking order. They want to know where I am in the caste system compared to them, they want to know how much money I make, they want to see if I am of use to them, or if I am worth their time. I would much rather share about my interests or hobbies than what I do for a living. What does it matter if I'm unemployed or if I'm a janitor or if I'm a doctor? Interests are a much better way to get to know who someone actually is.
I learned a long time ago that when people ask you how you are, they don't really want you to tell them, they want you to answer in a socially appropriate manner and use the approved monosyllabic response of "Fine" or "Good". You can add a "Thank you" to that response if you want, but it really isn't necessary. If you tell them how you are, their eyes glaze over and they try to get away from you ASAP. I smile most of the time usually, but this is considered to be inappropriate at times, so I have learned a range of expressions that are situationally appropriate and do not make the other person feel uncomfortable. If I have bad news, I then look down and tell them, if I have good news, then my smile comes back and that seems to be successful. Sometimes I do not get the right expression and they frown, then I know I have got something wrong. But I am somewhat like the Rain Man and have a really good memory, so I put all these lessons in my memory banks for future reference. I am 79 and in the process of teaching my grandson - also autistic - some of the tips. Seems to help.
So true! Me too… I’ve learned to say the required response: Good thanks how are you? But I still struggle to understand why people bother to ask if they don’t actually want to know. 🤔
Although it is said that Aspies "mask" and "behave inappropriately", the truth is that neurotypicals usually can't handle the degree of honesty and directness with which Aspies communicate. As Paul says, you can't stray from the conventional script if you want to avoid being avoided or rejected (or cancelled!). Here's an example of what I mean: Neurotypical 1: How do you like my new haircut? Neurotypical 2 and Aspie (thinking): It looks terrible. I don't like it. Neurotypical 2 (speaking): Great! It looks terrific! I really like it! (Then snickers behind neurotypical 1's back and tells others how ridiculous they think the haircut is.) Aspie (speaking): It looks terrible. I don't like it. Neurotypical 1 and 2: What! How can you be so mean! Neurotypical 1 and 2 "cancel" their relationship with Aspie and avoid Aspie whenever possible.
Literal, Honest, Will Say It Without a Filter Although Not Intending to Insult... yeh, Neurotypicals don't feel comfortable with that. They like, as the expression goes, having their ears tickled. Tell them what they want to hear, even if it isn't true, and they're happy. They don't want to hear Truth if it is scary, inconvenient, differs from their thinking pattern, is uncomfortable, or even painful.
I'm going through it again, employers simply don't understand. And I find it demoralizing and disheartening (and I feel just broken) because I keep getting into the same situation over and over where they don't know how to understand me, and I can't really explain it either.
@rowan orre If I could afford it I'd totally would. State allowed me 6 sessions, but I went through those already. I can't say it was particularly helpful, more like they get it and gave me exercises, but not so much helpful for that employer relationship. I feel like employers need counseling to help as well, kind of like marriage/relationship counselling.
"fair to middling, you?"... always my go too response. As for super powers, I can tell what someone ate based on farts... Sadly never appropriate in any given situation... I can also hear dog whistles... Meaning I can hear electrical faults in devices like faulty phone chargers... Telling a person what they ate last night, that they are currently ovulating and that their phone charger is going to cause an electrical fire is not socially acceptable.
"Fair to Middlin' " was my grandfather's typical response! 🤗 I have similar super powers: in addition to noticing food scents in burps and farts, I can detect and sniff-out the source of mold before anyone else notices -- most especially Moldy Citrus, which smells like ethyl alcohol fumes. I can hear All The Things that other people wouldn't notice. I can even FEEL SOUND, as though my inner ears are being struck by a physical object. Being in a noisy environment for an extended time makes my whole head buzz, and it continues for a while after leaving the area. Very Exhausting!
I have always hated small talk- it seems so pointless to me! I wanted to get to meaningful genuine conversations, so I can really relate to what you’re saying. Somewhere along the way I learned that most people are not ready for a genuine deep conversation much of the time, and that many work/school settings were not the appropriate time or place for them. I have learned who I can be real with; and that with most people I don’t know, it’s usually better off to just be polite and kind because they are not going to be part of my life.
I find it's plausible to communicate real feelings. But it's a slow multi stage process. You start with some plain back and forth so they get to see some pattern in how you talk, and adapt to it. They're good at this. Then you slowly turn the mood. At any moment they might leave a hint that they aren't into any more of that mood. So you see roughly where it's safe to stay. Then, you say things they can expand upon with their own stories, and you give them opportunities to do that. The system is rather sophisticated for our broken skills but it's worth getting competent at it. It's not random or pointless. I'm not good at it though and I hope to get better. Best of luck either way
@Theodore Alenas: I appreciate you sharing your strategy! It sounds very interesting & helpful. I would have to write it out on an index card to remember all the steps, but maybe I can just do the first one and see how that goes. If it goes well then later I could work on adding the second one etc. Thanks for sharing!
I have a mix of doing well and being awkward socially; it heavily depends on my energy levels. One strategy I have used in a “how are you?” exchange is to say “I’m alright” instead of “I’m fine” (this is of course after I learned in my mid twenties or so that people are not actually asking and I’m supposed to respond in a short scripted way) and I find this is generally better because I often am alright, at least in some way, versus “fine” which can mean well or better than alright. When I’m not really doing fine saying “I’m fine” makes me feel like I’m lying and makes me feel even more awkward and I might be more likely to be giving mixed signals, but I find saying “I’m alright” lessens this problem as it feels more truthful and I feel more relaxed saying it. Not a revolutionary strategy, I know! But I find people respond in a way that moves the conversation forward and they don’t ask me further questions about it. It seems they usually take “alright” as “not doing so well but I don’t want to talk about it” if my energy is lower and take it the same as “I’m fine” if my energy is higher.
Doing exactly the same thing. While I was dealing with depression issues and people were asking that question, this literally saved me at social gatherings. Knowing people dont want to endlessly hear your problems, but also not wanting to lie while responding is difficult.
I do a similar thing. I just say 'I'm okay' if I'm not bursting with health and 'really good, thanks' if I am. If I'm really not good I'll say 'not too brilliant, but I'll be okay', and I always return with 'but how about you? Are you alright?' to steer it away from whatever I'm feeling.
I really think people shouldn't ask how my day is going if they are not ready for a " bad mood" answer. I noticed this at a young age and I now find it amusing to give them an answer they're not expecting.
I do t think people should ask 'how are you?' unless they want to actually know. The I'm fine' response is so superficial & dangerous to embedding further poor mental health/Wellbeing. I like the idea of the honesty of I've got stuff going on, let's talk about something else'. At least that's addressing the feelings existing. There is a fine line where Autistic over sharing/info dumping occurs, but just my opinion
I agree. But most people think they are supposed to ask. I like the idea of, I've got stuff going on, but let's talk about something else. I just usually find a creative way of saying that.
I like to think of it like the first part of a data transmission over TCP. Neurotypicals are really good at extracting a lot of information from a basic answer and lay their plan.
Yes!! Before my diagnosis I would always answer "I'm fine!", even though I would often be very anxious and/or depressed. It was just the script I felt I had to follow. Now, after my diagnosis, I'm having a hard time to answer this question, because I don't want to mask anymore, but I also don't want to dump everything that's going on in my life (some parts are ok and some are not, and I don't know which one I should mention). And I feel like if I talk about the things which are not ok I make the person who asked feel awkward, as they were just asking "to be polite", like that it's what expected of you to ask when meeting someone. I kind of hate that question, it's so generic and with a broad range of answers... It always takes me too much energy to answer... 😑
Oohhhh you just explained so many of my own experiences!!!!! I've had this experience a lot, especially when people in college would brag about their drinking habits and I would just ask them if they needed help or ressources because I genuinely thought they were crying for help 😬
I usualy tend to cover my feelings when someone ask, I just answer "I'm OK" even if I'm not to avoid other questions, but now I think I will be more honest, and complete my answer with "...but I don't want to talk about it", because lying gives me axiety.
To be honest, I think that "but I don't want to talk about it", would sound abrasive to most nurotypicals. A nurodivergent would probably appreciate that. But I think not most nurotypicals. Lying gives me anxiety, too. So, if I really feel awful I will say something that hints at that, but is still worded positively enough for them to feel comfortable responding. And I choose words that are still literally true. "I'm hanging in there." feels much more honest to me. But it's not received as being abrasive. Or maybe something like, "I'm still swimming." Or, "I'm above ground." Or, "I'm taking it one day at a time." Or even, "I've had better days, but I'll be okay." That way I am expressing that I'm not completely okay, so it's not a lie. But I've phraised it in a way that doesn't sound overly depressing or inviting to them. Usually people know to smile but not ask more when I respond like that. Maybe something like that would feel somewhat comfortable for you, too. But would hopefully also not offend people.
AnyasCelticCreations AtEtsy: Those are some really good options, thanks for sharing them! I may use some of those. I do want to tell the truth and be real, so I have to consider who I’m talking with. It’s really different if it’s somebody I’ve never met before vs a friend, trusted family member or coworker who gets me. I don’t want to scare away new people by oversharing! Sometimes I try to say something like, “Glad to be here” if that’s true, or something seasonally appropriate like “Looking forward to summer!” I’d really rather get the focus off me so I’ve learned to ask a couple questions about other peoples life. Many people are quite happy to talk about themselves, and for those I don’t know well, I would rather listen.
One of my go to responses is "feeling a bit tired." It's a socially acceptable response and one that people can empathize with. I don't have to go into details about how the social interaction itself is what is making me tired.
While it is often said that those on the spectrum are weird, I more the so consider neurotypicals to be far weirder, along with being unbelievably presumptive anent their preconceived ideas as to right and wrong or whatever. Neurotypicals are likewise the awkward creatures of whom cannot seem to handle and understand divergent ways or alternative ideas than the prevailing ways and ideas of the time and personally held firmly to by them.
True. I really don't understand why we should work to not make them feel awkward. They are just liars and self centered egotists, with no values at all. We should create centers for us to thrive and do the work that clearly they don't know how to do. And get paid a lot. While they are ok with bullies being billionaires just because deep inside they want to be like that too (they are just bullies at the end of the day, no care at for ethical values and capacity for objective analysis most of them)
What amuses me most is this Western liberal conceit that our socioculture is somehow "individualistic," when neurotypicals are, by definition, devoid of much real variation or individuality among themselves (by their own choice) relative to neurodivergent people of virtually any classification. They go out of their way to all conform to being the same thing, in almost every idealized way they can, while struggling to grasp onto almost entirely aesthetic virtue signaling and personalized narrative worldbuilding ("I am this and this and this...") to define themselves as "a unique individual" in spite of their constant jostling to be identical to each other. The patterns of developmental psychology and socioculture are obvious (when one understands Spiral Dynamics / Integral Theory or other forms of [admittedly only partial] maps of development), yet no amount of comprehension of those patterns or appreciation for the well-intentioned but deeply misguided nature of neurotypical value systems elucidates why or how they're so contradictorily collectivist while thinking they're somehow fonts of individualism at the same time. Sometimes, I think they just don't bother thinking about themselves or their place in the world, at all, really, and just "accept" the contradictions they've been taught and trained without even processing them; somehow.
A lot of what you've described are called phatic expressions. They're short expressions that are more geared to acknowledging someone is there. They also are intended to make A positive emotional connection. It's useful to know the term so you can study the literature on it. One thing that has vastly improved my communication is that most communication is NOT intended to convey information. It's to communicate an emotional message. Yeah that's scary but really it's usually that the person engaging in small talk is trying to get you to understand the emotion they're feeling.
The problem is that I always seem to give off emotional signals that people don’t like or that they perceived wrong, even if I try my best to be myself. I feel like people still are like in high school. Just because I don’t talk loudly and elbow myself to the front row of everything people see me as this dorky, dumb nerd or they think I’m shy like a child. I’m just a careful person, I’m not shy! I tried to play an act and behave the way people said I should act.. a bit cocky, over confident, big gestures and facial expressions, stare people in the eyes intensely (that’s how it feels like to me, the way they do it) and speak loud, but I never convinced anyone with my acting. I guess the cockiness ideal might be big city behaviors too. I might have to move back to the countryside 🤣 ! To sum up.. it’s hopeless for people to perceive my emotional state and personality accurately for some reason. I’ve heard other autistic people have the same problem.
@@christineh86 I hear you. I wrote a whole book on how to handle communication problems and it helped, but didn't eliminate all the issues I've had. There are dozens of tiny cues that we're supposed to pick up on. There are a dozen more blatant violations of those ques that people get away with because of their social rank. It's super hard to navigate.
@@emmettobrian1874 Great info, thanks! That's such a delightfully ND thing to do: "I wasn't sure about something, so I wrote myself a book about it!" ☺️
@@bc4198 yes, it's different way of working out a problem. I was doing personal research and it got to be long enough to write a book about. I've written a novel and a novella before and just thought hey I've never done a non fiction book, let's try it. It was a fun project and it helped me to spend time with the ideas and encouraged me to test them out.
Ironic that we (who are autistic) have to double down and transpose such things to ensure the NT folks are not unduly stressed. I hope this is not considered a "snarky" response to this. I just find myself becoming aware of how such interactions have gone for so many years, bother before I understood what the confusion and result of these types of misunderstandings, and as I find myself looking back on them and "re-living them" with the understanding.
I used to use "what do you do for fun?" in place of the tired old "what do you do for a living". I got many blank stares and awkward responses. Those who could go "off script" often turned out to be the sort of people I'd enjoy to be with anyway.
I still ask what people do, but immediately follow up with: “Ooh, interesting! What do you like, and not like about it?” (Because that’s what I’m way more interested in). -It’s definitely off script, but tends to pleasantly surprise rather than disturb most people. Many will open like a flower in the face of genuine interest and non-judgement. I always learn something new, and sometimes make a good connection.
Precisely. I'd rather go off script purposely and actually enjoy talking with the few people who respond positively, than be bored out of my brain repeating the same script over and over (which I have done a *lot*, because I'm always told that's how I have to behave so that people will "like me". It's just not worth it.
It is possible to be genuine, authentic and socially appropriate at the same time but may need some help with strategies. YAY!!! I remember a girl at work came in with tears in her eyes. I asked her if she was ok. She said she was REALLY mad at something that had happened but she was trying to forget about it. I thought that was a really good way to address it and be honest. I think I have only witnessed someone doing it like that once. I think we should all respond with each other this way as much as possible.
@@oflameo8927 I gravitate toward this response, and to the string above it. It opens up the question. It negs wherher we are or are not of one mind, whether we should: (1) strive for unison of normalcy/peace, by using tech-niques/devi-ces of honest deflection, stating to the other that there are places they are not welcome to visit with you when they merely ask how you, a complex person is doing, a person obviously different from or stating differences from (thereby making borders) the asker, or (2) Disarm and open up and reveal your complexity at all times, encouraging a painful expansion of the asker of the simple 'how are you?' to accept what they get and accept the world is not a big-box/good-bad place. This may not encourage empathy and consciousness and belonging within the painful amd awkward moment of an honest and terse answer such as "I got fired today" but it is most truthful and desirous of belonging in the long run, even if aggressive and momentarily ineffectual. I choose the latter and I appreciate the conversation.
@@readoryx373 I think also, the asker is relieved when people do not open up when they ask "how are you", (unless they are close friends). It has become more of an expression than anything as they greet someone.
Behaving in a neurotypical way and reacting the way other people expect you to react, isn't that part of masking? It's very exhausting to do and can have devastating consequences for the rest of your day (and your relationships). I think I'd rather piss some people off and make them feel uncomfortable than trying to not be who I am.
Exactly, I hate that it takes some sort of strategy to deal with people when "F---- Off" should be more than enough. No it's not nice but it's right to the point and conveys exactly how annoyed I am with the question.
Yup. That is *exactly* what masking is and it is the path to anxiety and depression - anxiety because you always have to be so on your toes to keep saying the "right" thing, depression because you know none of your friends actually like you, they just like the fake cover. It also means you have no "real" friends: i.e. people you actually enjoy being around. I prefer to make those people uncomfortable, and then I can go and speak to those I actually enjoy talking with.
I've developed a few scripts for conveying different amounts of "okay" in casual conversation. I work in a customer-facing industry so I've had plenty of practice refining my small talk responses. In general I default to "I'm doing well, thanks" as that gives the most reassurance and easiest transition to get down to business. On days where I'm struggling I tend to say "It's been a busy day" or "It's [day of the week] but I'm hanging in there" or "glad to reach the end of the day/week" and the other person always fills in the rest with their imagination. People especially respond to referencing the day of the week, because they know the struggle of the weekly grind but it's also vague enough that they can interpret it whichever way makes sense to them. By the way I totally agree with what you say about NTs being the ones reliant on social scripts. Ultimately, ND scripts are just us figuring out and memorizing the hidden scripts used all around us every day. It's a shame that we get all the burden, but it is necessary to function in public.
I have just gone through it. I was fired by no reason. I call National Labour Inspectorate and I won. My employee just give me no job contract, paid no security insurance, etc. Of course some people have better communication skills than mine. Anyway there were no reason to treat me like that whenever doctors claim I could possibly be Autistic/Asperger like or not. I am not diagnosed! People sometimes look at me if I were alien and that is enough!😣
Why is it on us to make NT comfortable? Like communication is a two way street. Why can’t we just teach other people to ask questions? Expecting someone to both be comfortable and monitor their subject, tone, body,language is just a paradox.
You can! That's possible. In sparring matches, I might tell the other person "if I look hurt, keep on going. I'll tell you with words if I need a break" That's exactly how much they wanted to know. Now they won't worry much and they'll know what to do. I haven't been doing stuff like that for long though. But I'm sure it's extensible.
@Selana - I try to find the common ground. Both autistic people and NT people want to feel comfortable. So when I talk with NT people I just have to communicate a bit more about myself so that they can understand my logic, emotions and thoughtpatterns. That way I become predictable and they feel comfortable. I can be awkward, as long as we I'm awkward in a predictable way and not in a threatening one :)
I hate people asking me “how are you?”. I’d rather they just didn’t! Most of the time I don’t feel that great, but sometimes I feel okay. Their question forces me to be introspective and this can lead me to a darker place, somewhere I’d rather not go.
I got talked to about my performance for my new job today. And I was told the next few months will be critical for determining whether or not I am a good fit for the job. (Essentially I was told very politely that I need to be faster at my job or I may lose it in a few months) The thought of possibly losing my job this soon caused a lot of anxiety. So much anxiety that it was almost debilitating and I was having trouble functioning. I couldn't eat anything and I certainly didn't want to consume stimulants like sugar or caffeine or else it would be debilitating. What a crazy coincidence you post this video today. Excellent timing. (Note: the problem you mentioned in the video is not the reason I may lose my job. My co workers like me quite a bit)
Work hard, try and fix the problem. BUT also start looking for a new job straight away. They will not hesitate to get rid of you, and even if you do perform at the level they want you'll always be seen as a potential problem and will be the first to be let go in tough economic times.
Wow. Thanks for the support! I should probably also say I do feel appreciated at work and my co workers like me a lot as a person. And this is definitely a good company to work for. Plus I got the sense my manager really doesn't want to fire me. Also I feel like I can probably improve my performance to the speed that is needed for this job. Another video on this channel actually told me the mistake I was making, and that will certainly help me with my performance. Also after some thought, there are some other jobs I could definitely get very soon if I do get fired. So I should be okay. Thanks again for the advice and support. That was very nice :)
I'm taking a year to focus on my mental health and emotional intelligence, and realised I am autistic a few months ago. In the past, I mostly 'masked' and tried very hard to mimic 'normal' people, and totally lost my sense of self. Recently I'm making much more of an effort to identify how I feel and communicate in a more honest way, and your "I lost my job, I'm feeling pretty bad about it and I don't want to talk about it now, let's just have lunch." is pretty much the exact thing I've ended up doing! I think the 'superhuman level of emotional intelligence' is a bit extreme; what we're describing is just saying how we're feeling and how we'd like the other person to react. It does take being vulnerable, I think, which is very hard but REALLY important for us to do, is my experience so far (it has been going really well). Great topic :]
definitely resonated with the amount of emotional intelligence it takes for ME to properly have people interpret my emotions correctly. And just social interactions in general. I have to be okay with awkwardness all the time and get over it, meanwhile it's a huge inconvenience to NTs. When I'm on my stimulant medication, I'm able to develop scripts for social situations very quickly and respond to any number of strange openings. When in doubt, ask for tone clarification. if someone sounded cheerful with bad news, I'd ask if the news were actually bad in context or if they're using tone of voice to cope. Depending on my mood i don't care much to know the details of the situation because I wanna get on with my job usually, unless the person is the type of story teller that I'll happily listen to their life story. My goal is to be one of the neutral or positive interactions they've had that day. No one wants the cashier making them feel awkward on their own bad day.
Is tone clarification not a normal thing? Ive been doing it my whole life and just assumed ppl arent doing it to me because im either honest or flat anyway
I'm so sorry for YOU and Your friend, Paul. For I KNOW how HARD it is living with autism, as I have it since the day I was BORN!!! And I ALSO lost my job partially BECAUSE of it...
I'm usually pretty comfortable in social situations, as long as I'm not in a group of more than maybe 3 at most. Preferably one on one. But I'm pretty good at it because I've practiced it as sort of a special interest. I do have a few things that I've learned that I can share. When someone asks casually, "How are you?" They don't actually mean it literally. They are following the script that they think they are supposed to follow. (Like Paul said.) They don't actually want to know and they are very uncomfortable if we share. They're just asking because they think they're supposed to and to fill awkward silence. Our job at that point is to play along. But they also don't want total icy coldness in our reaction either. That puts them off, too. They seem to want a casual scripted response but with a hint of truth behind it. But only a subtle hint. The standard, "I'm good, how are you?", (with a smile) almost always works. But sometimes that feels like an outright lie and I feel like I need to say something else instead. I have noticed some phraises that norotypicals in my area use when they are suffering, can't bring themself to say they are fine, but they don't want to talk about it either. These are a few I've heard used: "It's another day above ground, so that's a good day." Or simply, "Well, I'm above ground today." Said with somewhat of a smile. I actually said myself today, "Well, I'm above ground and I'm housed, so I'm doing okay." I was actually feeling like crying but I said it with a gentle smile. And people seemed to appreciate the slight hint of truth regarding sadness or struggle, but they knew that their role was to smile and let it go. Or to say something similar back. I also knew that the person who I said it to often says something like that himself, so I knew it would be appropriate with him. Fortunately, the other people nearby also responded with quiet smiles as well. I wouldn't have tried that one most places, but it's used fairly commonly in my area. I've also heard people say something like, "Well, you know, one day at a time." But somewhat gloomy stuff like that was mostly used during the worst of the pandemic when there seemed to be a collective comradery of suffering that we all hinted at but no one fully said out loud. I would recommend, only use phraises like that if you know that collectively people are feeling that way. I've also said in the past, "I'm hanging in there." Again, not said gloomy or overly chipper. Just with a soft smile. People knew to respond to that with a smile, too. Again, that one I usually reserved for when I just couldn't force myself to outright lie and say that I'm okay. I think if I had just lost my job I would say something like, "well, I've had better days, but I'll be okay." And again, I'd show with my face how I want them to respond. Which is with a gentle smile. Gloomy or overly chipper would put them off. But following up with a gentle smile usually works pretty well. If they ask you first, always respond, and then ask them how they are. And respond to whatever they say. That turns the conversation off of you. If you've already asked and now the conversation is on you, you can give your answer, wait for them to smile, and then say something nice about the weather. No matter what the weather is like, there is almost always something nice to say about it. And they will be relieved because they know how to respond about that. The key is really to give them something that they know how to respond to. And then respond to whatever they say. Try to say something positive, but not like crazy person positive. Just pleasant. Because that is what is most comfortable for them to respond to. And be supportive of whatever they express to you without getting too personal. If they say their kids are driving them nuts, say, "Oh, I know. Being a parent is a hard job." (Even if you're not a parent yourself) If they say, "It's been a long day.", you can say, "I know, the days get a bit longer each day, don't they?" Those are nice generic answers that don't get personal but validate what they said. If they say they're shopping for their elderly mom, say, "Awe, that's nice of you." Basically stuff like that, and then following up with more fairly generic but kind support of whatever they say will probably get you through until the moment for smalltalk ends. Or you can see if they seem to want it to end, and then just let it end. If they start to turn away, they are probably not in the mood to talk more, so just let it end. (Most people don't really want more than the initial polite greeting.) And remember that your job is to help them feel heard, but also to give them positive things to respond to if they ask about you. If they do ask more about you, you can answer, but do your best to put a positive spin on it. Not crazy person positive, but at least hopefully-optomistic positive if you can. That way it is easier for them to respond. And keep your responses brief. They really don't want more than that for smalltalk. Again, keep in mind that most people just wanted the initial greeting exchange because they feel like they are supposed to ask or to fill awkward silence. Usually, only proceed from there if they do. Honestly, just the usual, "I'm okay, how are you?" (with a pleasant smile) is normally enough. Anyway, I hope that some of that helps someone.
I like the way you explain it. It is like language is not about the meaning of the words, but instead phrases that have set meanings different to the actual words and one that will trigger a standardized response (in the realm of small-talk). It is more like animal posturing that actual language.
I'm terrible at small talk plus it induces high levels of anxiety. So whenever someone asks me "How are you doing today? my response is "How much time do we have?" Then based on their response I know how to proceed - (1) awkward laughter response usually indicates "I don't really care how you're doing; I was just using a standard greeting phrase" (2) whilst a response such as "Oh, well I got all the time in the world!" indicates that they actually, genuinely care about me and therefore I can open up and just be myself, without scripts.
The show must go on! Even when I'm feeling awful and distressed, I stick to the "good, how's your day" script no matter what. Then typically I'll go be alone and process what I need to.
I haven't had that kind of success with the strategy you describe. It's 'too much information' for neurotypicals who really don't care, they are just making polite noises. Asking someone how they are is generally just a ritual designed to smooth superficial interactions. You can get into just as much trouble by answering 'I'm really great! ' and then explaining why. Once I figured that nobody really cares, and just made the same polite noises as everyone else, almost all the problems disappeared.
I was run out of the workforce after 24 years over this. Between 1988 and 2012, I went through 50+ jobs. Didn't ever consider I might be on the spectrum. I was CONSTANTLY pulled into the office over complaints that had me baffled. I was offending people left & right no matter what I said or did. As for the salutation, yes... we are expected to respond enthusiastically when random strangers inquire on our wellbeing. Repeatedly. All day every day. AND we're supposed to thank them said inquiry as well., Then you must respond in kind as you become even more enthusiastic. When people ask what you do, you're supposed to sound as impressive as possible while you tell them about your highly esteemed vocation. Then you are expected to answer an indefinite series of questions about your line of work (in the most philosophical manner possible) while your inquisitor pretends to marvel over your occupation as though "they've always wanted to do that job". And yes, you are required to respond to all matters of life with superhuman mental capacity. As an undiagnosed 48-year-old woman, I've decided Autism is my superpower. Ever since I identified on the spectrum, I have been more comfortable in my skin & the less I mask, the better things really are for me. But I can't work at a normal job without people acting like they want to pass legislation to have me banned from the workforce. Good thing I have superpowers! 😅
Oh, Wow! Your story sounds like mine, so I won't say it all. Just that I've almost been fired a few times at the same job because of differences in communication. And I also realized at "forty-several" years old, that I must be Autistic/Aspie.
There are so many such people in this world. It is strange that the world ( with it's closed mindset)still does not bother to make such people feel at ease. Only a little honesty & thoughtfulness are required. A little understanding,so that they can live their lives too just like the so called 'normal' people do.
This story reminds me of a girl I somewhat knew through a circle of friends many years ago. Her father had just passed away and she told me in a happy tone and literally smiled after she told me. I didn't know how to respond or what to think. I tried to show empathy, but my first thought was that she didn't like her father very much. I have learned since then that smiling can mean a mixture of emotions from happy, nervous or distress and so on.
In addition to smiling, crying is a mixed signal that confuses NT's. My body hyper-responds to emotional input, whether for the good or the bad, and my eyes well up and tears stream down my face and my voice chokes out and my nose runs because tear ducts work great and I'm a blubbering mess. "Awwww, don't cry" I often hear, but this is how I've always processed emotions since early childhood: intensely! ... and at forty-several years old, after deeply delving into the topic, I finally figured out that I must be autistic/aspie.
I'd love it if a stranger came up to me and said, "Who are you and what are you about?" That would totally stimulate me, although it would freak most people out, haha. An aquaintence told me when she visited a part of the South someone came up to her and asked, "Where are you from and who are your people?" Haha, it struck her as funny/ judgmental at first, but there it's meant to be a nice way of getting to know someone.
I did lose a job over communication once. I even asked them "is there anything wrong with the work I'm doing?" and no, it was just that one person had taken issue with something I said. Great. I guess it's good I don't need to work there anymore. "Communication" has always been an issue and has come up through all my performance reviews throughout the years. Every time, the manager would just say "you're too direct in your communication". To which I'd respond, I don't understand what you mean, can you give some examples. They never did. Until at my previous job, after getting the same old "you're communication is too direct" feedback and saying I didn't understand, I had a boss that finally said "being right/correct doesn't always get you what you want or need to accomplish". It wasn't in English, the nuance is not easy to translate, but it was mostly me always wanting 'the facts' to be right and other people interpreting this as an attack on them. Anyway, I told him to kick me in the shins or something like that if he noticed me doing it in a meeting or conversation where he was present, he started doing that and finally I started to understand. All those years, none of the managers before him ever thought "maybe I should more directly state the issue as it's occurring to this person who clearly prefers direct communication". What a concept.
I feel you on wanting to get the facts right and it being interpreted at an emotional level. Reading about basic communication theory made so many things in my personal clearer that I just had not understood before. It made it easier to communicate with other people who have the same meta-language, because I can now name what I am doing, but it does not help that most people have know idea what they are doing instinctively, it's like having to translate everything all the time.
@@metalscholarsreact666 The irony is that I actually studied linguistics and knew about things like phatic communication. I just never really applied it to my own conversations. I think I put it too much into boxes in my own head. Conversation with people = referential/informative, writing poetry = poetic, emotions= for other people so nothing I need to worry about cause I don't talk about those...
First of all he KNEW he did something wrong! He LIED. So that's not true that Asperger's don't have the ability to lie, besides he said a bold face lie to me about having a wife and kids that he had to supposedly go spend New Year's Eve with. Then I gave him a chance to explain himself the next time I saw him and he COMPLETELY ignored the matter. I had NO CHOICE but to stop seeing him, because I had a small suspicion he might be married so he had just confirmed to me that he was taken. And what we were doing felt wrong. Eventhough we weren't doing anything wrong, but I liked him. So if he had a wife I had to stop seeing him. That's HIS problem that he lied. I NEVER lied to him. Why tf would a person ask what's wrong when they know they lied.
I have this problem a lot too, so I totally understand what she was doing. She was responding in the positive tone NT people would expect from "I'm fine thanks!", but because that wasn't the truth, she said the truth, but in that tone. It's like when you ask someone a question, and they say yes but they were simultaneously shaking their head no. I constantly feel the need to people please and give the answers people want, but at the same time feel the need to actually express myself like I'm screaming from the inside of the mask, and it often results in mixed communication like this.
Awkwardness caused by not following a typical script....fascinating thought...I always figured neurotypical people thought more quickly and creatively than I did in conversation.
I loathe small talk or when people ask "how are you?" simply because it's what is expected. I've learned acceptable responses and try not to be awkward at work or in public. But, in doing so I've become so focused on what makes others comfortable that I've lost sight of who I am. At work I am proactive and ask first. If they follow-up with "and how are you?" I normally reply "I'm doing well, thanks for asking." I don't like to lie. This response works for me because even if I'm having a difficult day, I am "doing well" as my basic needs are met; clean water, food, clothes, etc. If it's a co-worker that I'm close with and I know cares about my answer, I may reply with something like "I'm a bit overwhelmed right now. But I'm looking forward to spending time in my hammock after work to relax." I wonder, could I have a handful of go-to responses that wouldn't through NTs off, while still allowing me to be authentic? Maybe we could brainstorm some "socially expectable" replies together that allow us to be ourselves? Any suggestions?
I often say to myself I experience life differently so if another person doesn't really 'get' me or vibrate with me, I accept it this way. I don't have to have good interaction with everyone, just the few people who I resonate with. The out-of-the-box questions are awesome, I think the few people who can have an interesting conversation with you that way is still worth more than just fitting in. I also often try to be interested in the other person first, so they don't have time to ask me questions I find difficult to answer.
I would love it if someone came up to me at a party and asked what my super power was.....that is a conversation I WANT to have! Now that I am older, I am not so interested in being socially appropriate. Socially authentic, kind, happy and interesting are still important to me though...
It's ironic to me that you've posted this video today. Though it's kind of a long story, I'm possibly going to lose my job this week after speaking up about some bullying at work, some of which has to do with my having Asperger's. When confronting the person who was perpetuating it face to face, they didn't change their attitude. In fact, it got much worse. So I took it to the assistant manager and secretly documented her answers on a voice recorder to my questions regarding workplace policies and the negative culture being enabled in the workplace. I did this once more when speaking to the store manager, and now have to decide whether to drop the recordings to HR with a letter detailing what I've been dealing with for a month now since I've started this new gig. Understandably, no one likes a tattle tale, but there's some awful behavior being dismissed at my work place and I wouldn't be able to sleep at night without being able to say I stepped up and did something about it. Wish me luck, and thank you for making this video. I hope it helps a lot of people.
I just don't know why people ask questions they dont want answers to. Or why people need to use cues to make sure they are having a "proper" reaction. How is this normal? Seems a bit like you have to be dishonest to appear normal.
This sounds like a case of wrongful termination. And if someone says “I lost my job today” you say “that’s unfortunate”. It’s not hard, unless you’re an irrational basket case who hallucinates they can read their minds. People who show up and work hard shouldn’t have to steer around their stupidity or get fired. As for your personal anecdote, you say: “What’s your super power?” I say : “Complete lack of tact(aka distaste for lying)”. It’s not hard, and I’d be much more comfortable with THAT open-ended question than the typical probing for personal info.
@@myntndmarriage It doesn’t even sound like she has a problem communicating from what little is described in the video. It sounds like she said “I lost my job today” in plain English and people suffering from a condition I’ll call “stupidity” manage, with great effort of will, to be confused by this simple sentence.
@@myntndmarriage I listened to the whole video also. There was no example presented to show her “communication style” was unsuited to anything. The only example presented was of her speaking perfectly understandable English and what appear to have been stupid people managing to get confused by clear language. I wonder what such people do when the have to speak with someone who speaks English has a slightly different accent than their region. I have to thus assume the person who fired her also was a bit wrong in the head because it’s nonsense. Like I say, if what is presented here is the whole story I think a wrongful termination suit is possible.
Sadness is an overwhelming emotion. If my feelings are hurt, or I'm upset about something, I find other emotions easier to manage. Anger and amusement are quick feelings, and both yelling and laughing help release tension. Sad is just sad. It's heavy and smothering, and I don't know how to deal with it, especially when I'm around other people. So, I grin, either savagely or mockingly while I try to get my bearings. Honestly, when I'm in that state, I couldn't care less about meeting social expectations. It's not reasonable to be expected to help other people understand my feelings when I cannot understand them myself. While I'm feeling like I'm drowning/dying/sinking/falling apart, I don't have the emotional bandwidth to worry about making someone feel awkward.
I ask how people are doing knowing exactly how they are doing, very high emotional intelligence. I would prefer they break the social norms and either admit something is wrong or try and talk about it, which is what I am attempting to get to by asking how they are doing. I also tend to draw normies and neurodiverts to me but I prefer to hang around people who understand the peculiar challenges I face.
Hey I usually play by asking questions like if someone says "Hey ! How are you ?" I usually ask them what they want to hear : " Do you want the honest answer or I'm fine is enough ?" if it's a bad day or " Do you want the short version or the long version ?" if it's a good day. That sort of things... I usually answer a question with a question basically.
I just don't care anymore and stay confident in my randomness. Once I got asked how I was doing and I answered ''I am a litle bit depressed, but I got my shit together so it's not so bad at the end''. And I transitionned from there to talk about school (for 30 seconds), then asked what the other person what he does for a living to have a mundane question to ask back. This allow the person to #1 ask me about why I am depressed (was because of school) or #2 keep talking about the more mundane less akward subject if he is not confortable.
Being socially appropriate feels like masking sometimes, and leaves me feeling drained. I would sooner be honest, and let the cards fall as they may. Takes too much work, the other way
To loose a job you must 1st have a job. The 2 times I managed that neither ended unexpectedly nor reluctantly. Yes NT's have their own scripts & rigid inflexible rules & one of those rules is they make the rules so that's not a disorder. I note that all the 'appropriate way' part's are NT appropriate & not ND appropriate. In case you haven't guessed I'm very social awkward (if I get as far as being verbal) & people usually avoid me most often without even getting as far speaking to me. My general strategy is to avoid 'normal' social situations. Certainly solves the awkwardness but has the side effect of isolation, which isn't as bad as the rejection sensitivity.
I'm generally very mean to people, often annoyed with the social interactions, and I come out and say what I mean in the most vulgar way possible. I grew up being told off about things I couldn't control for so long that I became resentful towards whats socially "normal". I often feel like the "BS" we're engaging in is stupid and the people who engage in it should feel stupid for doing so. It's not successful but it makes me feel better about it at least (lol). I've learned to just not care if someone doesn't like it because I've come so used to being isolated anyway, it doesn't "help" but most folk don't seem to care anyway since I've seen some of the nicer people on the spectrum treated the same way I've been.
I just realized I have Asperger's a few weeks ago. I have been really struggling at church with my awkwardness 🤣. I have to laugh to keep from crying! Everyone is SO WONDERFUL, but I get so frustrated. Now that I know what is wrong, I know more of how to proceed.
When people ask how I'm doing, my response is always "Depends." Full Stop. I don't elaborate. I let the other person take it from there. Some get uncomfortable with it as obviously it's not an NT's scripted response, but I've learned many can either engage in it or are actively curious. They WANT to know why I say 'depends', rather than being on a script of social niceties that mean nothing in the long term. Or they nod their head and agree, it really does depend. It's such an ambiguous question. When does my regular checker at the grocery store cross that line of courtesy and asking about this exact moment of my life and actually wanting to know about my day, my week, my month? Or my mailperson whom I chat with for three minutes each day? Or my doctor? When is my best friend wanting to know about the look on my face or trying to catch up because it's been a week? Depends lets the questioner decide exactly how much of a response they are fully wanting from me whither they know I am autistic or not and gives me a little more to gauge my interactions with them on.
If somebody I don't know ask me how I'm doing today I tell them the truth whether they like it or not. Most of them don't know what to say. I don't have time for small talk because it's pointless and useless. I don't have any friends because they make people feel to uncomfortable.
I've lost several jobs. However, I don't think it's because I communicate weirdly. But I do dislike that "How are you? I'm fine, how are you?" dance. I tend to dodge the question by instead telling people what I have done or what I am doing or plan to do. But I never ask people anything back. I don't feel I'm obligated to do that. I seriously dislike those social games. Say something if you care, otherwise don't. If you only want to do a social dance game for no sensible reason, just say hi and we'll be over it.
If I had lost my job the sense of shame and rejection would overwhelm me so much that there is no way I’d remain at work the rest of the day to field stupid questions like ‘how are you?’Seriously! How do you effing think??
I hate it when people ask me how I am and they clearly don't care about if I'm ok or not they just saying it to avoid a silence. Same goes for a Mon morn when they say 'how was ya wkend?' your not supposed to actually say how it was and what you did. They just want you to say 'good thanks, and yours?' if it wasn't good - don't tell them, they don't care or want to know. They are just making small talk whilst the are working. Because that's how they like to work. 🤷🏼♀️
When I was younger my family and friends would ask me "how do i look in ___" and I responded "do you want constructive criticism or the simple answer". Turns out ppl almost always want the simple answers so I use that example in my everyday life for any question unless I'm asked to explain. I'm too old at this point to care to explain anything if I don't have/want to.
Our adult autistic son achieved a college degree, but would possibly be unemployable if we didn’t have our own business for him to work. He’s absolutely brilliant, but doesn’t seem to have any career goals at all. Just comes in and does what he’s told to do. I find, even with me, he rarely comments unless you ask him a direct question. His 2 sisters, one older, one younger, are also his only friends. Thanks for all the good tips on your channel!
Not wanting much from life has the benefit of feeling content more often than not, but has the detriment of making all pragmatic things seem like a chore. It's a strange existential dilemma that is hard to find an answer to, because it's like being good at accepting reality. But, even if one does develop ambitions, it seems that wanting something isn't enough, you have to show you want it more than anyone else that wants the same thing, which just makes wanting things that much harder. Especially when you don't mind - or, might even feel good about - letting someone else have it. Society sees you as foolish for this, but you accept that about society, because it's the reality of your relation to society. I guess you accept the members of society as they are, because you want to be accepted as you are. Sorry if this seems random, I felt compelled to reply.
@@ProbablePaul Thank you for your insight! I can see what you’re saying. Even though I think I have a touch of autism myself, I still am always trying to understand our son better because he doesn’t advocate for himself well. Over time, I hope he becomes comfortable at work enough to relax and enjoy it and have a feeling of accomplishment.
As a high functioning autistic individual with an iq around 87, I wish I could get a structured and small task jobs that doesn’t involve hierarchy and lots of communication, as I find it often challenging. Currently, I’m trying to do house chores such as cleaning, recycling, and sorting laundries by myself, and I wish I can get a structured job related to this, without facing much difficulties even if it is for a small pay and short term as it can add up to my experience.
Paul, I love your videos and I think they are important tools in helping neurodiverse people navigate a neurotypical world. Personally though, I can say that after a lifetime of being undiagnosed but masking to get along in the world I eventually I felt I was losing myself. I became so good at masking that I forgot who I was. Now because of covid and my age I've been able to be at home and I'm trying to rediscover myself. In conjunction with neurodiverse people learning how to navigate the neurotypical world to survive, we need to put forth more a position of understanding people's differences. We can be authentic and still survive in this world if we make more room for all kinds of people. By the way, this pandemic has taught me how overrated appearing to be liked socially is. You will find out who your true friends are in hard times.
Most of my job losses have come down to *not* communicating, as opposed to *how*. First, the couple good jobs I've had, the problem has been not speaking up when I was having trouble with tasks ("blocked" / "blockers" in Kanban / Agile). Falling behind was less of an issue than not talking with my bosses about it. Second is authority / hierarchy. I've noticed ND have a hard time blindly following authority, while NT seem to freaking live for it (at least having it over you). They wanted me to do something dumb, I didn't - but because I didn't talk with them about the issues, it became insubordination instead of just a little communication challenge. I'm about 50/50 for them getting fired or me. The few wins have been fun in the moment, but not worth the risk, and I didn't learn anything versus pushing through my discomfort talking about issues.
I've reached a point where I hate speaking to neurotypicals. I avoid them. I have a basic "expected" script I stick to... at this time in my in my ignorance who my friends are; I speak freely to.
I liked the acknowledgement of it being difficult, almost needing superhuman levels of social intelligence and of the truth that in spite of the idea that autistics are stereotyped or need scripts, it's actually just as much neurotypicals who run off certain scripts. I'd like to encourage workplaces and everyone who communicates to be more comfortable with "off script" responses because it isn't actually a hard and fast rule. I think in that situation the right to response of workmates is responding to the kids of the job - a big deal event on it's generally accepted merits: saying "oh dear - all the best" adding in any brief heartfelt & thoughtful detailed further comment like "I'll miss you" "they don't like good people here" - it doesn't sound like your friend lost her job on that specific issue neccesarily but just that the workplace colleagues found it hard to respond and it was another example of awkward communication. Those people were unsure how to give empathy rather than it really being about how your friend was perceived on the phone!? However I do think the gallows humour aspect is important to emphasize: that's not even an NT-ND thing. And that binary isn't all that tight all the time. There are often times I don't know how to respond to other autistics and other neurodiverse people, dyspraxics, ADHDers...
*comment like "I'll miss you" "they don't like good people here" with no expectations - somehow make it t clear there's no need to respond any particular way but accept a CV possiblity that a neurodiverse or neurotypical person may still ruminate on it even if the good will came across & meant something to them!! You can't get perfect interactions. No such thing.
Hi Paul. Very insightful as usual. I am a High Functioning Autistic person. I got diagnosed three years ago when I was 40. I have learned over the decades (still learning) to mask and speak the script, but it can be challenging still. This afternoon I found out from my mother that her cancer is still around after she had a mastectomy with the purpose of removing the whole cancer. I was on my porch and neighbours walked by and said the usual script, “How’s it going?” And, of course, I answered with a masking smile, “I’m fine. Thanks. How are you?” In this case, I wasn’t fine. I felt sad, empty and dead inside which mostly took the form of ambivalence as I was still processing the news, trying to make sense of the consequences as my mother will be starting chemo treatments hopefully in a week. But there are levels of things we can express and to certain people and not to others in order to remain socially acceptable. It’s a strange world we live in. Thanks for your video, Paul!
I remember getting anxious on my way to work when I am not ok in my personal life but I don't want to talk about it. Not knowing how to respond to the question how are you. Because I don't like the NT response "I am find thanks" when I am not, also I know I have a tendency to overshare and trauma dump. I think perhaps saying something like I am not ok but don't want to talk about it might be a good strategy.
I hope all is well however I feel the need to now withdraw from you tubers. I will not allow myself to be drawn into their lives. Blimey I have enough going on right now. Take care x
I need a sign says leave me alone because they will just randomly talk as if need the interaction and I really don’t need random people asking me stuff.
Honestly it's mostly because other people's disinterest in actually listen and understand other people. They want everyone to be just like themselves. If they're not. They stop hanging out with them, or FIRE them. A lot of people lack humanity unfortunately...
When someone asks how I am I often answer "yes and you?" People often don't realize that I avoided their question. They happily continue with their ritualistic conversation and I don't have to put in any effort...
I was literally poisoned by one of my coworkers with all of my sleeping pills thinking they would get away with it cause I was suicidal. Thankfully I noticed but I didnt think it really happened till I had more info but by then I had no proof... Lost my job shortly after for accidentally punching a hole though a wall that I was going to fix. Now I'm stuck in my truck with my kitty and broke..
I try to meta-communicate sometimes, to tell people plainly something about what is going on in the situation, why I am saying what I'm saying, or what I'm trying to achieve with my words. I do this especially when I feel like too many misunderstandings are about to happen. So, if I say something that doesn't land well, I try to explain what I was trying to do. I find people relate moderately well to this. But then again, I'm not from the anglo-saxon sphere, so if people ask me how I am, it's not completely faux pas to actually answer. Also, in the case of the perky "I lost my job today" - I'm pretty sure I would answer with a question: "is that a good or a bad thing?".
even neurotypical ppl frequently fail at neurotypical conversations. you will be putting too much pressure on yourselves if you expect 100% success rate at that.
It seems that ppl (anyone; colleagues; students) I interact with can easily get confused by me -- this confusion can turn into anxiety which can then lead to them lashing out. I am trying to learn how to say less, and how to guide ppl with the language they expect... This requires me to be multilingual, so to speak.
You don't have to answer "fine," but keep your answer brief, use the creaked door method which can be found via Ted talk, wish than a better day than yours if you wish and It's appropriate and give them a chance to respond. You can always answer briefly and move into better topics.
If you don't care how I am then don't ask me! This has baffled me since a child, and I'm 54. I never ask strangers how they are. I simply smile and say hello. What's so hard about that? Every single person was happy to be noticed, and all were happy to keep moving on in their lives. Every person needs to stop asking strangers how they are because we all know the person asking really doesn't care. Anyone that uses that phrase with me is immediately dismissed as a fake, and tagged as a potential headache to deal with. The autistic woman did nothing wrong in this story.
i think people are generally intrigued with me because i have a unique sense of humor and my lack of social cues comes off as confidence sometimes but i just say things honestly. people also tend to think i'm rude because i don't look at them. i'd describe my social skills as a C-, it's barely passing but i am definitely on the verge of being outcasted constantly.
I have had people get upset when I don't say "I am good" when asked "How are you?". I had someone say authoritatively your suppose to say "I am good". I was like "Why are you even asking people how they are then?". I feel like some people are closeted neural atypicals. I refuse to lye about how I am doing to make others feel comfortable. Don't ask, if you don't want to know. Just say what you mean like "I hope you are doing well." and walk away, because actually, that is all you are really doing.
This video is convincing me even more that we Need to study neurotypicals. They do Way too much stuff that makes no sense. I suppose the problem with that is that there are a lot of nd ppl undiagnosed, so you'd need to test them first to make sure they're actually nt, which maybe would make this research difficult in large scale. But I'm tired of us assuming they're "normal" and the standard and we are the ones who are weird/doing something else.
I feel like I have learned the socially acceptable way of communicating early on in my life, but I have selective mutism when in most social situations, so I cant actually speak. I don't know how to change that.
I love the question “what’s your superpower”. :) Gives the option to answer with something I AM, rather than something I DO. Then again, I could be considered ND (as someone with ADHD at least). So, 🤷♀️
I'm great and horrible at communication, sometimes I go for hours on end, talking and talking, sometimes you can't get a peep out of me. Sometimes I go for weeks or even months without talking to people on phone.
This person seems to dislike his job. If you are happy to be fired, it's because this is what you want the most. If you really suck at your job, or you're an asshole to everyone, I will be very happy to see you that way. A guy at my job said that he have found a new job. I was so happy inside because that guy was bad and lazy.
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if someone said "I lost my job today" in an awkwardly perky tone, I would guess that they did lose their job, but were trying very hard to not fall apart and ended up sounding positive...because they were trying to not feel it was the end of the world.
I've lost jobs and that's often how I felt. I actually lost my previous job at the end of February and I did feel weirdly relieved in that case -not because I didn't want employment - because there had been months of stressful "one on one chats" with my boss that left me feeling like everything I was trying to communicate wasn't coming across, and I felt like the job I thought I had wasn't the job my boss thought I had and I'd end up in literal tears.
I was just glad for the miscommunication to end, even though I liked the nature of the work and could really use the income. like, I was better for that call to be made than deal with not knowing every day what was going to go wrong.
I hate 1:1s. All the jobs seem to have them now. Someone must have wrote a book.
or it could mean "I lost my job today. I am actually relieved and excited because I hated that job, and I now have an excuse to do something else."
I came to eventually realize that after that first one on one meeting the end was coming and it was time to start aggressively looking for another job. Amazing how many jobs I had over the course of my lifetime. Too many to count.
We need to try to move the world away from small talk and fibbing. If I am NOT doing well I'm going to speak honestly. I prefer when people are honest and open. It's weird and feels inauthentic when people pretend to be happy and expect me to lie about how I feel... I see that not as an Autistic issue but an issue with societal expectations not matching authentic human emotions and needs.
Right thank you why are we pretending we’re gonna die one day is all I think
Agree
Everything. 💯Facts. The lies, the fakeness, the offense at truth and honesty IS SILLY AND RIDICULOUS. #manipulation #weakminded #FAKEWOKE
Yes. Tell me plainly, and be honest. It might sting, but better that, than the dark maze of mirrored walls I have to try and navigate, and hope I figure it out quick enough what the message being communicated.
I tend to agree. But there are moments in which you prefer not to talk about it, or not want anyone to know something is up. There are some unspoken rules about speaking of personal issues, e.g. when meeting new people or work gatherings. Venting about things that are going on in your life on a personal level is often not what people are waiting for, but it is also rude to cut you off and say you dont want to listen to your problems atm.
I wish it was this black and white. That you are allowed to just say: Sorry, but I prefer not to discuss this right now. Also when someone starts telling their life story to you.
I've noticed that the more "normal" the person is or seems the less likely they are to enjoy my company so I've developed a bit of an aversion to them because it feels like it's only a matter of time before they realise I'm not one of them. It's why I dread work social events. They are so much effort to appear like a version of myself that work would like to hang out with so that I don't get branded as a bad fit. It took me a while but I learnt to stop saying "You're clearly not ok, what's going on." to everyone. Now it's just for close friends and family.
That first phrase was gold.
I heard live heavy metal and went there to peek, and I felt unexpectedly nice. Everyone was weird! So long as I stood silent, avoided eye contact, and looked as if I was high on cocaine ready to kill someone, I didn't have to do anything cognitive to fit in.
Most people I work with already know that I am autistic and I warned them, that I will come across weirdly sometimes. They know I work on that and don’t judge me for that. So that is fine.
Also, I think it is very worth it to figure out how to correctly interact with neurotypical people because there are so many of the and they function very similar. So what works for one NT, usually fit the next NT also quite well. ^^
@rowan orre I don’t enjoy random social events either!
how do you get our of work events without sounding rude?
@@various_artists Be honest. It actually works. Says wow I hope you all have a great time, but it's not really my thing. OR say I can go but only for X amount of time. If you can handle 30 minutes, go 30 minutes. I would try to do your best to go to these things, because it's the best chance for people to get to know you. Be yourself, and when you hit your limit say so and bounce.
I can empathise with the unconventional response. I got told my responses were very unconventional when I said I really didn't want to work somewhere where I was not valued and wanted. By demonising some of my pretty mild and unoffensive autistic traits of gentle honesty and enthusiastic dedication I figured they didn't deserve my work ethic. The Council I worked at became very toxic, backstabbing with numerous false accusations I had to constantly prove were untrue. Very exhausting.
The upside is that it taught me to keep a good work diary and to know my worth, which I didn't do well beforehand.
Now I've peaked with my dream job with good pay and my company loves my honesty and autistic special interests
That, "The Council I worked at became very toxic, backstabbing with numerous false accusations", sounds like what has been heard from multiple sources about our little farm burg's city government: but how can that be happening when pop psychology and secular humanism are insisting people are basically good???
@rowan orre yes if other workers don’t like you they will get you out.
@@melissawalker7570 neurotypical
@rowan orre I haven’t had same experiences as my work is above standard which why it can only be for other reason.
@rowan orre it happens way more for autistic people because we don’t always understand what’s happening and how to avoid it and also our issues with communication and socializing make ppl more likely to feel off about us, and not like us because of that. It’s definitely much harder for autistic ppl to keep a job and be liked at one for those reasons and I wouldn’t minimize that.
I'm not a fan of the premier thing, they make it look like there's a video in the feed and once it really comes out I've seen the thumbnail so many times I assume it's an old video :(
Yeah I really hate the premiere thing too. It's very stupid for that reason. :(
Premieres are also awkward because I'll typically wind up tuning in part way into the stream-like video an miss the beginning. I really don't understand the benefit.
Same thing, I hate the premiere feature.
I see it won't let me watch it so I move on and forget it exists. Most of the time I don't watch it until months later.
I feel the same. If the premiere thing was an hour before. I'd prefer that. But days before means I'm less likely to watch because I think I have.
I am NT and get sick of the societal script. I love that you asked people, "What is your superpower?" However, I realize that could be off-putting to some people. Hearing about how others make their living (aka their work) often bores me and doesn't tell me much about them. So, instead of asking "What do you do for a living?" I ask people, "What do you like to do? How do you like to use your time?" Their reply usually generates interesting conversation and allows me to learn about the person. It is much more pleasant to hear about their hobbies/interests and their goals and aspirations instead of their job.
I like you already Deb
Thanks for what you are bringing to the world!
If people made this question more often...
Hate it when they want to know what job you when I don’t have one
Yes most people don't like their job. Maybe in an ideal world it would be the same as doing what you like, but most people are not there yet.
Most neurotypical social standards don't seem to be a result of NTs designing the world to be "comfortable" or efficient for themselves, either. Frankly, NT social scripting in Western liberal democracies seems almost entirely dedicated to distracting neurotypicals from the vagaries and overwhelming depression and oppression of the capitalist socioeconomic structures that have been constricted around humanity in recent centuries. From what I can tell neurotypical social conventions are doing exactly what they're intended to do: perpetuate conservative social standards, oppress those that do not conform with conservative Eurocentric ideals most closely, ensure the labour force remains pliable and "efficient," and minimize or outright prevent any and all forms of social progress away from that standard (except when rabble politics by popularity contest dictates otherwise).
One thing to also think about... To ask about superpowers or hobbies instead of work is also more inclusive. When people ask what I do for a living they make me very uncomfortable because I rarely have employment (because of disabilities), so they force me to bring up a topic I’m sad about. It gets even worse when I see that the other person feels awkward because they asked me about a sensitive topic. Most people have a favorite hobby so that’s a nicer thing to ask about , unless it’s like a business social event, then I guess it’s more natural to ask about what people do for work.
A lot of neurotipical identify with their jobs. Nds identify more witb their hobbies and passion, I guess
Yeah.. family constantly wonders why I'm the only one that's never at their dinner events. Basically because they ask about work I can't hold because I seem to constantly have a problem with my bosses.
I totally agree. Whenever people ask me what I do for a living I fell like they want to put me in a slot based on the societal pecking order. They want to know where I am in the caste system compared to them, they want to know how much money I make, they want to see if I am of use to them, or if I am worth their time. I would much rather share about my interests or hobbies than what I do for a living. What does it matter if I'm unemployed or if I'm a janitor or if I'm a doctor? Interests are a much better way to get to know who someone actually is.
I learned a long time ago that when people ask you how you are, they don't really want you to tell them, they want you to answer in a socially appropriate manner and use the approved monosyllabic response of "Fine" or "Good". You can add a "Thank you" to that response if you want, but it really isn't necessary. If you tell them how you are, their eyes glaze over and they try to get away from you ASAP.
I smile most of the time usually, but this is considered to be inappropriate at times, so I have learned a range of expressions that are situationally appropriate and do not make the other person feel uncomfortable. If I have bad news, I then look down and tell them, if I have good news, then my smile comes back and that seems to be successful.
Sometimes I do not get the right expression and they frown, then I know I have got something wrong. But I am somewhat like the Rain Man and have a really good memory, so I put all these lessons in my memory banks for future reference. I am 79 and in the process of teaching my grandson - also autistic - some of the tips. Seems to help.
truth
It's the human equivalent of Moo!
So true! Me too… I’ve learned to say the required response: Good thanks how are you? But I still struggle to understand why people bother to ask if they don’t actually want to know. 🤔
@@danielallan8061 I know that. Why ask a question if you don't expect or want an answer? It seems silly to me.
Although it is said that Aspies "mask" and "behave inappropriately", the truth is that neurotypicals usually can't handle the degree of honesty and directness with which Aspies communicate. As Paul says, you can't stray from the conventional script if you want to avoid being avoided or rejected (or cancelled!). Here's an example of what I mean:
Neurotypical 1: How do you like my new haircut?
Neurotypical 2 and Aspie (thinking): It looks terrible. I don't like it.
Neurotypical 2 (speaking): Great! It looks terrific! I really like it! (Then snickers behind neurotypical 1's back and tells others how ridiculous they think the haircut is.)
Aspie (speaking): It looks terrible. I don't like it.
Neurotypical 1 and 2: What! How can you be so mean!
Neurotypical 1 and 2 "cancel" their relationship with Aspie and avoid Aspie whenever possible.
Literal, Honest, Will Say It Without a Filter Although Not Intending to Insult... yeh, Neurotypicals don't feel comfortable with that. They like, as the expression goes, having their ears tickled. Tell them what they want to hear, even if it isn't true, and they're happy. They don't want to hear Truth if it is scary, inconvenient, differs from their thinking pattern, is uncomfortable, or even painful.
I'm going through it again, employers simply don't understand. And I find it demoralizing and disheartening (and I feel just broken) because I keep getting into the same situation over and over where they don't know how to understand me, and I can't really explain it either.
Aw man, that's rough. I hear ya, can't unbreak ya, but I hear ya,
@rowan orre If I could afford it I'd totally would. State allowed me 6 sessions, but I went through those already. I can't say it was particularly helpful, more like they get it and gave me exercises, but not so much helpful for that employer relationship. I feel like employers need counseling to help as well, kind of like marriage/relationship counselling.
Robots, never will get through to them
I’ve been through hell on that front and so traumatised by the experience of being Neurodiverse that I will never work for anyone again
@rowan orre fortunately because I’m on disability
"fair to middling, you?"... always my go too response. As for super powers, I can tell what someone ate based on farts... Sadly never appropriate in any given situation... I can also hear dog whistles... Meaning I can hear electrical faults in devices like faulty phone chargers... Telling a person what they ate last night, that they are currently ovulating and that their phone charger is going to cause an electrical fire is not socially acceptable.
How do you detect ovulation & are you sure it’s not peak fertility you’re detecting (which occurs 2-3 days prior to actual O)?
Yeah, 'not bad' is my go to response.
"Fair to Middlin' " was my grandfather's typical response! 🤗
I have similar super powers: in addition to noticing food scents in burps and farts, I can detect and sniff-out the source of mold before anyone else notices -- most especially Moldy Citrus, which smells like ethyl alcohol fumes. I can hear All The Things that other people wouldn't notice. I can even FEEL SOUND, as though my inner ears are being struck by a physical object. Being in a noisy environment for an extended time makes my whole head buzz, and it continues for a while after leaving the area. Very Exhausting!
I have always hated small talk- it seems so pointless to me! I wanted to get to meaningful genuine conversations, so I can really relate to what you’re saying. Somewhere along the way I learned that most people are not ready for a genuine deep conversation much of the time, and that many work/school settings were not the appropriate time or place for them. I have learned who I can be real with; and that with most people I don’t know, it’s usually better off to just be polite and kind because they are not going to be part of my life.
I find it's plausible to communicate real feelings. But it's a slow multi stage process.
You start with some plain back and forth so they get to see some pattern in how you talk, and adapt to it. They're good at this.
Then you slowly turn the mood. At any moment they might leave a hint that they aren't into any more of that mood. So you see roughly where it's safe to stay.
Then, you say things they can expand upon with their own stories, and you give them opportunities to do that.
The system is rather sophisticated for our broken skills but it's worth getting competent at it. It's not random or pointless. I'm not good at it though and I hope to get better. Best of luck either way
@Theodore Alenas: I appreciate you sharing your strategy! It sounds very interesting & helpful. I would have to write it out on an index card to remember all the steps, but maybe I can just do the first one and see how that goes. If it goes well then later I could work on adding the second one etc. Thanks for sharing!
Very well said.
I have a mix of doing well and being awkward socially; it heavily depends on my energy levels. One strategy I have used in a “how are you?” exchange is to say “I’m alright” instead of “I’m fine” (this is of course after I learned in my mid twenties or so that people are not actually asking and I’m supposed to respond in a short scripted way) and I find this is generally better because I often am alright, at least in some way, versus “fine” which can mean well or better than alright. When I’m not really doing fine saying “I’m fine” makes me feel like I’m lying and makes me feel even more awkward and I might be more likely to be giving mixed signals, but I find saying “I’m alright” lessens this problem as it feels more truthful and I feel more relaxed saying it. Not a revolutionary strategy, I know! But I find people respond in a way that moves the conversation forward and they don’t ask me further questions about it. It seems they usually take “alright” as “not doing so well but I don’t want to talk about it” if my energy is lower and take it the same as “I’m fine” if my energy is higher.
This is good. Thank you. I will try this script.
Doing exactly the same thing. While I was dealing with depression issues and people were asking that question, this literally saved me at social gatherings. Knowing people dont want to endlessly hear your problems, but also not wanting to lie while responding is difficult.
I do a similar thing. I just say 'I'm okay' if I'm not bursting with health and 'really good, thanks' if I am. If I'm really not good I'll say 'not too brilliant, but I'll be okay', and I always return with 'but how about you? Are you alright?' to steer it away from whatever I'm feeling.
I really think people shouldn't ask how my day is going if they are not ready for a " bad mood" answer.
I noticed this at a young age and I now find it amusing to give them an answer they're not expecting.
I do t think people should ask 'how are you?' unless they want to actually know. The I'm fine' response is so superficial & dangerous to embedding further poor mental health/Wellbeing. I like the idea of the honesty of I've got stuff going on, let's talk about something else'. At least that's addressing the feelings existing. There is a fine line where Autistic over sharing/info dumping occurs, but just my opinion
I’ve been asking people if they want the polite answer or real answer but that requires spoons to remember to do that.
I agree. But most people think they are supposed to ask.
I like the idea of, I've got stuff going on, but let's talk about something else. I just usually find a creative way of saying that.
I like to think of it like the first part of a data transmission over TCP. Neurotypicals are really good at extracting a lot of information from a basic answer and lay their plan.
Fvcken aye!
Yes!! Before my diagnosis I would always answer "I'm fine!", even though I would often be very anxious and/or depressed. It was just the script I felt I had to follow.
Now, after my diagnosis, I'm having a hard time to answer this question, because I don't want to mask anymore, but I also don't want to dump everything that's going on in my life (some parts are ok and some are not, and I don't know which one I should mention).
And I feel like if I talk about the things which are not ok I make the person who asked feel awkward, as they were just asking "to be polite", like that it's what expected of you to ask when meeting someone.
I kind of hate that question, it's so generic and with a broad range of answers... It always takes me too much energy to answer... 😑
Oohhhh you just explained so many of my own experiences!!!!! I've had this experience a lot, especially when people in college would brag about their drinking habits and I would just ask them if they needed help or ressources because I genuinely thought they were crying for help 😬
I usualy tend to cover my feelings when someone ask, I just answer "I'm OK" even if I'm not to avoid other questions, but now I think I will be more honest, and complete my answer with "...but I don't want to talk about it", because lying gives me axiety.
To be honest, I think that "but I don't want to talk about it", would sound abrasive to most nurotypicals. A nurodivergent would probably appreciate that. But I think not most nurotypicals.
Lying gives me anxiety, too. So, if I really feel awful I will say something that hints at that, but is still worded positively enough for them to feel comfortable responding. And I choose words that are still literally true.
"I'm hanging in there." feels much more honest to me. But it's not received as being abrasive.
Or maybe something like, "I'm still swimming." Or, "I'm above ground." Or, "I'm taking it one day at a time."
Or even, "I've had better days, but I'll be okay."
That way I am expressing that I'm not completely okay, so it's not a lie. But I've phraised it in a way that doesn't sound overly depressing or inviting to them. Usually people know to smile but not ask more when I respond like that.
Maybe something like that would feel somewhat comfortable for you, too. But would hopefully also not offend people.
AnyasCelticCreations AtEtsy: Those are some really good options, thanks for sharing them! I may use some of those.
I do want to tell the truth and be real, so I have to consider who I’m talking with. It’s really different if it’s somebody I’ve never met before vs a friend, trusted family member or coworker who gets me. I don’t want to scare away new people by oversharing! Sometimes I try to say something like, “Glad to be here” if that’s true, or something seasonally appropriate like “Looking forward to summer!”
I’d really rather get the focus off me so I’ve learned to ask a couple questions about other peoples life. Many people are quite happy to talk about themselves, and for those I don’t know well, I would rather listen.
One of my go to responses is "feeling a bit tired." It's a socially acceptable response and one that people can empathize with. I don't have to go into details about how the social interaction itself is what is making me tired.
@Carole Smith: That’s a good one! Everyone can relate to feeling tired.
While it is often said that those on the spectrum are weird, I more the so consider neurotypicals to be far weirder, along with being unbelievably presumptive anent their preconceived ideas as to right and wrong or whatever. Neurotypicals are likewise the awkward creatures of whom cannot seem to handle and understand divergent ways or alternative ideas than the prevailing ways and ideas of the time and personally held firmly to by them.
True. I really don't understand why we should work to not make them feel awkward. They are just liars and self centered egotists, with no values at all. We should create centers for us to thrive and do the work that clearly they don't know how to do. And get paid a lot. While they are ok with bullies being billionaires just because deep inside they want to be like that too (they are just bullies at the end of the day, no care at for ethical values and capacity for objective analysis most of them)
Omg yes 💯
What amuses me most is this Western liberal conceit that our socioculture is somehow "individualistic," when neurotypicals are, by definition, devoid of much real variation or individuality among themselves (by their own choice) relative to neurodivergent people of virtually any classification. They go out of their way to all conform to being the same thing, in almost every idealized way they can, while struggling to grasp onto almost entirely aesthetic virtue signaling and personalized narrative worldbuilding ("I am this and this and this...") to define themselves as "a unique individual" in spite of their constant jostling to be identical to each other. The patterns of developmental psychology and socioculture are obvious (when one understands Spiral Dynamics / Integral Theory or other forms of [admittedly only partial] maps of development), yet no amount of comprehension of those patterns or appreciation for the well-intentioned but deeply misguided nature of neurotypical value systems elucidates why or how they're so contradictorily collectivist while thinking they're somehow fonts of individualism at the same time. Sometimes, I think they just don't bother thinking about themselves or their place in the world, at all, really, and just "accept" the contradictions they've been taught and trained without even processing them; somehow.
@@RosscoAW well put. I usually just say they are like sheep XD
THIS
A lot of what you've described are called phatic expressions. They're short expressions that are more geared to acknowledging someone is there. They also are intended to make A positive emotional connection. It's useful to know the term so you can study the literature on it.
One thing that has vastly improved my communication is that most communication is NOT intended to convey information. It's to communicate an emotional message. Yeah that's scary but really it's usually that the person engaging in small talk is trying to get you to understand the emotion they're feeling.
The problem is that I always seem to give off emotional signals that people don’t like or that they perceived wrong, even if I try my best to be myself. I feel like people still are like in high school. Just because I don’t talk loudly and elbow myself to the front row of everything people see me as this dorky, dumb nerd or they think I’m shy like a child. I’m just a careful person, I’m not shy! I tried to play an act and behave the way people said I should act.. a bit cocky, over confident, big gestures and facial expressions, stare people in the eyes intensely (that’s how it feels like to me, the way they do it) and speak loud, but I never convinced anyone with my acting. I guess the cockiness ideal might be big city behaviors too. I might have to move back to the countryside 🤣 ! To sum up.. it’s hopeless for people to perceive my emotional state and personality accurately for some reason. I’ve heard other autistic people have the same problem.
@@christineh86 I hear you. I wrote a whole book on how to handle communication problems and it helped, but didn't eliminate all the issues I've had. There are dozens of tiny cues that we're supposed to pick up on. There are a dozen more blatant violations of those ques that people get away with because of their social rank. It's super hard to navigate.
@@emmettobrian1874 Great info, thanks! That's such a delightfully ND thing to do: "I wasn't sure about something, so I wrote myself a book about it!" ☺️
@@bc4198 yes, it's different way of working out a problem. I was doing personal research and it got to be long enough to write a book about. I've written a novel and a novella before and just thought hey I've never done a non fiction book, let's try it. It was a fun project and it helped me to spend time with the ideas and encouraged me to test them out.
@@emmettobrian1874 Where can I get/read your works?
Ironic that we (who are autistic) have to double down and transpose such things to ensure the NT folks are not unduly stressed. I hope this is not considered a "snarky" response to this. I just find myself becoming aware of how such interactions have gone for so many years, bother before I understood what the confusion and result of these types of misunderstandings, and as I find myself looking back on them and "re-living them" with the understanding.
I agree. It's like they're all fragile little eggs and we're the superheroes that must go above and beyond to not crack them.
Yes, and it seems the older I get, the more that this is true in every situation.
We're unskilled in a useful skill dammit. In autist communities you typically do avoid communication you don't like, and the communities are hell.
I can't stand the term "Neurotypical" considering that there is no such thing as a truly "Neurotypical" person.
I used to use "what do you do for fun?" in place of the tired old "what do you do for a living". I got many blank stares and awkward responses. Those who could go "off script" often turned out to be the sort of people I'd enjoy to be with anyway.
The people that didn't answer probably just didn't want to say "I sit on my couch"
I still ask what people do, but immediately follow up with: “Ooh, interesting! What do you like, and not like about it?” (Because that’s what I’m way more interested in). -It’s definitely off script, but tends to pleasantly surprise rather than disturb most people. Many will open like a flower in the face of genuine interest and non-judgement. I always learn something new, and sometimes make a good connection.
@@MushookieMan and watch TV. Lol
Precisely. I'd rather go off script purposely and actually enjoy talking with the few people who respond positively, than be bored out of my brain repeating the same script over and over (which I have done a *lot*, because I'm always told that's how I have to behave so that people will "like me". It's just not worth it.
@@Vousie Don't lose heart though, they say you have to check a whole lot of rocks before you find a gem
It is possible to be genuine, authentic and socially appropriate at the same time but may need some help with strategies. YAY!!!
I remember a girl at work came in with tears in her eyes. I asked her if she was ok. She said she was REALLY mad at something that had happened but she was trying to forget about it. I thought that was a really good way to address it and be honest.
I think I have only witnessed someone doing it like that once.
I think we should all respond with each other this way as much as possible.
Yeah, when you are in a universe of your own clones.
@@oflameo8927 I gravitate toward this response, and to the string above it. It opens up the question. It negs wherher we are or are not of one mind, whether we should:
(1) strive for unison of normalcy/peace, by using tech-niques/devi-ces of honest deflection, stating to the other that there are places they are not welcome to visit with you when they merely ask how you, a complex person is doing, a person obviously different from or stating differences from (thereby making borders) the asker, or
(2) Disarm and open up and reveal your complexity at all times, encouraging a painful expansion of the asker of the simple 'how are you?' to accept what they get and accept the world is not a big-box/good-bad place. This may not encourage empathy and consciousness and belonging within the painful amd awkward moment of an honest and terse answer such as "I got fired today" but it is most truthful and desirous of belonging in the long run, even if aggressive and momentarily ineffectual. I choose the latter and I appreciate the conversation.
I generally hate that it takes a strategy at all.
@@bobbybologna3029 yeah, but in the moment, do you... respond?
@@readoryx373 I think also, the asker is relieved when people do not open up when they ask "how are you", (unless they are close friends). It has become more of an expression than anything as they greet someone.
Behaving in a neurotypical way and reacting the way other people expect you to react, isn't that part of masking? It's very exhausting to do and can have devastating consequences for the rest of your day (and your relationships).
I think I'd rather piss some people off and make them feel uncomfortable than trying to not be who I am.
Exactly, I hate that it takes some sort of strategy to deal with people when "F---- Off" should be more than enough. No it's not nice but it's right to the point and conveys exactly how annoyed I am with the question.
Yup. That is *exactly* what masking is and it is the path to anxiety and depression - anxiety because you always have to be so on your toes to keep saying the "right" thing, depression because you know none of your friends actually like you, they just like the fake cover. It also means you have no "real" friends: i.e. people you actually enjoy being around. I prefer to make those people uncomfortable, and then I can go and speak to those I actually enjoy talking with.
I've developed a few scripts for conveying different amounts of "okay" in casual conversation. I work in a customer-facing industry so I've had plenty of practice refining my small talk responses.
In general I default to "I'm doing well, thanks" as that gives the most reassurance and easiest transition to get down to business. On days where I'm struggling I tend to say "It's been a busy day" or "It's [day of the week] but I'm hanging in there" or "glad to reach the end of the day/week" and the other person always fills in the rest with their imagination. People especially respond to referencing the day of the week, because they know the struggle of the weekly grind but it's also vague enough that they can interpret it whichever way makes sense to them.
By the way I totally agree with what you say about NTs being the ones reliant on social scripts. Ultimately, ND scripts are just us figuring out and memorizing the hidden scripts used all around us every day. It's a shame that we get all the burden, but it is necessary to function in public.
This is super helpful
I have just gone through it. I was fired by no reason. I call National Labour Inspectorate and I won. My employee just give me no job contract, paid no security insurance, etc. Of course some people have better communication skills than mine.
Anyway there were no reason to treat me like that whenever doctors claim I could possibly be Autistic/Asperger like or not. I am not diagnosed!
People sometimes look at me if I were alien and that is enough!😣
Patrycja in UK you have to get the diagnosis from a psychiatrist. Godbless
You don’t need a diagnosis to be Asperger.
@@elizabethmilligan2197 The same in Poland but sometimes people are rude. They judge someone as if they were psychologists or psychiatrists.
Why is it on us to make NT comfortable? Like communication is a two way street. Why can’t we just teach other people to ask questions?
Expecting someone to both be comfortable and monitor their subject, tone, body,language is just a paradox.
You can! That's possible.
In sparring matches, I might tell the other person "if I look hurt, keep on going. I'll tell you with words if I need a break"
That's exactly how much they wanted to know. Now they won't worry much and they'll know what to do.
I haven't been doing stuff like that for long though. But I'm sure it's extensible.
@Selana - I try to find the common ground. Both autistic people and NT people want to feel comfortable. So when I talk with NT people I just have to communicate a bit more about myself so that they can understand my logic, emotions and thoughtpatterns. That way I become predictable and they feel comfortable. I can be awkward, as long as we I'm awkward in a predictable way and not in a threatening one :)
Because 98%+ are NT. Therefore by simple majority they rule the roost, and to get along in this world you have to adapt to them to some degree.
The reality is, the less intimate you are with a person, the more scripted the interaction needs to be in order for it to not be awkward.
I hate people asking me “how are you?”. I’d rather they just didn’t! Most of the time I don’t feel that great, but sometimes I feel okay. Their question forces me to be introspective and this can lead me to a darker place, somewhere I’d rather not go.
I got talked to about my performance for my new job today.
And I was told the next few months will be critical for determining whether or not I am a good fit for the job.
(Essentially I was told very politely that I need to be faster at my job or I may lose it in a few months) The thought of possibly losing my job this soon caused a lot of anxiety. So much anxiety that it was almost debilitating and I was having trouble functioning. I couldn't eat anything and I certainly didn't want to consume stimulants like sugar or caffeine or else it would be debilitating.
What a crazy coincidence you post this video today.
Excellent timing.
(Note: the problem you mentioned in the video is not the reason I may lose my job. My co workers like me quite a bit)
Eh, that sounds extremely anxiety provoking. I feel for you. Hopefully you can find a new job where they appreciate and need the help.
Work hard, try and fix the problem. BUT also start looking for a new job straight away. They will not hesitate to get rid of you, and even if you do perform at the level they want you'll always be seen as a potential problem and will be the first to be let go in tough economic times.
Wow. Thanks for the support!
I should probably also say I do feel appreciated at work and my co workers like me a lot as a person.
And this is definitely a good company to work for.
Plus I got the sense my manager really doesn't want to fire me.
Also I feel like I can probably improve my performance to the speed that is needed for this job.
Another video on this channel actually told me the mistake I was making, and that will certainly help me with my performance.
Also after some thought, there are some other jobs I could definitely get very soon if I do get fired.
So I should be okay.
Thanks again for the advice and support.
That was very nice :)
I'm taking a year to focus on my mental health and emotional intelligence, and realised I am autistic a few months ago.
In the past, I mostly 'masked' and tried very hard to mimic 'normal' people, and totally lost my sense of self. Recently I'm making much more of an effort to identify how I feel and communicate in a more honest way, and your "I lost my job, I'm feeling pretty bad about it and I don't want to talk about it now, let's just have lunch." is pretty much the exact thing I've ended up doing!
I think the 'superhuman level of emotional intelligence' is a bit extreme; what we're describing is just saying how we're feeling and how we'd like the other person to react. It does take being vulnerable, I think, which is very hard but REALLY important for us to do, is my experience so far (it has been going really well).
Great topic :]
definitely resonated with the amount of emotional intelligence it takes for ME to properly have people interpret my emotions correctly. And just social interactions in general. I have to be okay with awkwardness all the time and get over it, meanwhile it's a huge inconvenience to NTs.
When I'm on my stimulant medication, I'm able to develop scripts for social situations very quickly and respond to any number of strange openings. When in doubt, ask for tone clarification. if someone sounded cheerful with bad news, I'd ask if the news were actually bad in context or if they're using tone of voice to cope. Depending on my mood i don't care much to know the details of the situation because I wanna get on with my job usually, unless the person is the type of story teller that I'll happily listen to their life story.
My goal is to be one of the neutral or positive interactions they've had that day. No one wants the cashier making them feel awkward on their own bad day.
Is tone clarification not a normal thing?
Ive been doing it my whole life and just assumed ppl arent doing it to me because im either honest or flat anyway
I'm so sorry for YOU and Your friend, Paul. For I KNOW how HARD it is living with autism, as I have it since the day I was BORN!!!
And I ALSO lost my job partially BECAUSE of it...
I'm usually pretty comfortable in social situations, as long as I'm not in a group of more than maybe 3 at most. Preferably one on one. But I'm pretty good at it because I've practiced it as sort of a special interest.
I do have a few things that I've learned that I can share.
When someone asks casually, "How are you?" They don't actually mean it literally. They are following the script that they think they are supposed to follow. (Like Paul said.) They don't actually want to know and they are very uncomfortable if we share. They're just asking because they think they're supposed to and to fill awkward silence. Our job at that point is to play along.
But they also don't want total icy coldness in our reaction either. That puts them off, too.
They seem to want a casual scripted response but with a hint of truth behind it. But only a subtle hint.
The standard, "I'm good, how are you?", (with a smile) almost always works. But sometimes that feels like an outright lie and I feel like I need to say something else instead.
I have noticed some phraises that norotypicals in my area use when they are suffering, can't bring themself to say they are fine, but they don't want to talk about it either. These are a few I've heard used:
"It's another day above ground, so that's a good day." Or simply, "Well, I'm above ground today." Said with somewhat of a smile.
I actually said myself today, "Well, I'm above ground and I'm housed, so I'm doing okay." I was actually feeling like crying but I said it with a gentle smile. And people seemed to appreciate the slight hint of truth regarding sadness or struggle, but they knew that their role was to smile and let it go. Or to say something similar back. I also knew that the person who I said it to often says something like that himself, so I knew it would be appropriate with him. Fortunately, the other people nearby also responded with quiet smiles as well.
I wouldn't have tried that one most places, but it's used fairly commonly in my area.
I've also heard people say something like, "Well, you know, one day at a time."
But somewhat gloomy stuff like that was mostly used during the worst of the pandemic when there seemed to be a collective comradery of suffering that we all hinted at but no one fully said out loud. I would recommend, only use phraises like that if you know that collectively people are feeling that way.
I've also said in the past, "I'm hanging in there." Again, not said gloomy or overly chipper. Just with a soft smile. People knew to respond to that with a smile, too.
Again, that one I usually reserved for when I just couldn't force myself to outright lie and say that I'm okay.
I think if I had just lost my job I would say something like, "well, I've had better days, but I'll be okay." And again, I'd show with my face how I want them to respond. Which is with a gentle smile. Gloomy or overly chipper would put them off. But following up with a gentle smile usually works pretty well.
If they ask you first, always respond, and then ask them how they are. And respond to whatever they say. That turns the conversation off of you.
If you've already asked and now the conversation is on you, you can give your answer, wait for them to smile, and then say something nice about the weather. No matter what the weather is like, there is almost always something nice to say about it. And they will be relieved because they know how to respond about that.
The key is really to give them something that they know how to respond to. And then respond to whatever they say. Try to say something positive, but not like crazy person positive. Just pleasant. Because that is what is most comfortable for them to respond to.
And be supportive of whatever they express to you without getting too personal.
If they say their kids are driving them nuts, say, "Oh, I know. Being a parent is a hard job." (Even if you're not a parent yourself)
If they say, "It's been a long day.", you can say, "I know, the days get a bit longer each day, don't they?"
Those are nice generic answers that don't get personal but validate what they said.
If they say they're shopping for their elderly mom, say, "Awe, that's nice of you."
Basically stuff like that, and then following up with more fairly generic but kind support of whatever they say will probably get you through until the moment for smalltalk ends. Or you can see if they seem to want it to end, and then just let it end. If they start to turn away, they are probably not in the mood to talk more, so just let it end. (Most people don't really want more than the initial polite greeting.)
And remember that your job is to help them feel heard, but also to give them positive things to respond to if they ask about you.
If they do ask more about you, you can answer, but do your best to put a positive spin on it. Not crazy person positive, but at least hopefully-optomistic positive if you can. That way it is easier for them to respond.
And keep your responses brief. They really don't want more than that for smalltalk.
Again, keep in mind that most people just wanted the initial greeting exchange because they feel like they are supposed to ask or to fill awkward silence. Usually, only proceed from there if they do.
Honestly, just the usual, "I'm okay, how are you?" (with a pleasant smile) is normally enough.
Anyway, I hope that some of that helps someone.
I like the way you explain it. It is like language is not about the meaning of the words, but instead phrases that have set meanings different to the actual words and one that will trigger a standardized response (in the realm of small-talk). It is more like animal posturing that actual language.
@@metalscholarsreact666 Thank you. And I think that's exactly it. That's a really good way to explain it, too. I really like your explanation a lot. 👍
I just reread my comment. It was really long! Lol. Oh well. I guess that's my nurodivergent side showing. Lol. Still, I hope it helps people.
I'm terrible at small talk plus it induces high levels of anxiety. So whenever someone asks me "How are you doing today? my response is "How much time do we have?" Then based on their response I know how to proceed - (1) awkward laughter response usually indicates "I don't really care how you're doing; I was just using a standard greeting phrase" (2) whilst a response such as "Oh, well I got all the time in the world!" indicates that they actually, genuinely care about me and therefore I can open up and just be myself, without scripts.
The show must go on! Even when I'm feeling awful and distressed, I stick to the "good, how's your day" script no matter what. Then typically I'll go be alone and process what I need to.
I haven't had that kind of success with the strategy you describe. It's 'too much information' for neurotypicals who really don't care, they are just making polite noises. Asking someone how they are is generally just a ritual designed to smooth superficial interactions. You can get into just as much trouble by answering 'I'm really great! ' and then explaining why. Once I figured that nobody really cares, and just made the same polite noises as everyone else, almost all the problems disappeared.
I was run out of the workforce after 24 years over this. Between 1988 and 2012, I went through 50+ jobs. Didn't ever consider I might be on the spectrum. I was CONSTANTLY pulled into the office over complaints that had me baffled. I was offending people left & right no matter what I said or did. As for the salutation, yes... we are expected to respond enthusiastically when random strangers inquire on our wellbeing. Repeatedly. All day every day. AND we're supposed to thank them said inquiry as well., Then you must respond in kind as you become even more enthusiastic. When people ask what you do, you're supposed to sound as impressive as possible while you tell them about your highly esteemed vocation. Then you are expected to answer an indefinite series of questions about your line of work (in the most philosophical manner possible) while your inquisitor pretends to marvel over your occupation as though "they've always wanted to do that job". And yes, you are required to respond to all matters of life with superhuman mental capacity. As an undiagnosed 48-year-old woman, I've decided Autism is my superpower. Ever since I identified on the spectrum, I have been more comfortable in my skin & the less I mask, the better things really are for me. But I can't work at a normal job without people acting like they want to pass legislation to have me banned from the workforce. Good thing I have superpowers! 😅
I'm sorry, this resonates with me more than you know. I almost got into a fist fight with one of my bosses because of this nonsense.
Oh, Wow! Your story sounds like mine, so I won't say it all. Just that I've almost been fired a few times at the same job because of differences in communication. And I also realized at "forty-several" years old, that I must be Autistic/Aspie.
Apparently I talk to everyone like I'm angry or sparky towards them. I don't try to be, but it just comes out that way. Been a problem for so long
There are so many such people in this world. It is strange that the world ( with it's closed mindset)still does not bother to make such people feel at ease. Only a little honesty & thoughtfulness are required. A little understanding,so that they can live
their lives too just like the so called 'normal' people do.
This story reminds me of a girl I somewhat knew through a circle of friends many years ago. Her father had just passed away and she told me in a happy tone and literally smiled after she told me. I didn't know how to respond or what to think. I tried to show empathy, but my first thought was that she didn't like her father very much. I have learned since then that smiling can mean a mixture of emotions from happy, nervous or distress and so on.
In addition to smiling, crying is a mixed signal that confuses NT's. My body hyper-responds to emotional input, whether for the good or the bad, and my eyes well up and tears stream down my face and my voice chokes out and my nose runs because tear ducts work great and I'm a blubbering mess. "Awwww, don't cry" I often hear, but this is how I've always processed emotions since early childhood: intensely! ... and at forty-several years old, after deeply delving into the topic, I finally figured out that I must be autistic/aspie.
I'd love it if a stranger came up to me and said, "Who are you and what are you about?" That would totally stimulate me, although it would freak most people out, haha. An aquaintence told me when she visited a part of the South someone came up to her and asked, "Where are you from
and who are your people?" Haha, it struck her as funny/ judgmental at first, but there it's meant to be a nice way of getting to know someone.
I did lose a job over communication once. I even asked them "is there anything wrong with the work I'm doing?" and no, it was just that one person had taken issue with something I said. Great. I guess it's good I don't need to work there anymore.
"Communication" has always been an issue and has come up through all my performance reviews throughout the years. Every time, the manager would just say "you're too direct in your communication". To which I'd respond, I don't understand what you mean, can you give some examples. They never did. Until at my previous job, after getting the same old "you're communication is too direct" feedback and saying I didn't understand, I had a boss that finally said "being right/correct doesn't always get you what you want or need to accomplish". It wasn't in English, the nuance is not easy to translate, but it was mostly me always wanting 'the facts' to be right and other people interpreting this as an attack on them. Anyway, I told him to kick me in the shins or something like that if he noticed me doing it in a meeting or conversation where he was present, he started doing that and finally I started to understand.
All those years, none of the managers before him ever thought "maybe I should more directly state the issue as it's occurring to this person who clearly prefers direct communication". What a concept.
I feel you on wanting to get the facts right and it being interpreted at an emotional level. Reading about basic communication theory made so many things in my personal clearer that I just had not understood before. It made it easier to communicate with other people who have the same meta-language, because I can now name what I am doing, but it does not help that most people have know idea what they are doing instinctively, it's like having to translate everything all the time.
@@metalscholarsreact666 The irony is that I actually studied linguistics and knew about things like phatic communication. I just never really applied it to my own conversations. I think I put it too much into boxes in my own head. Conversation with people = referential/informative, writing poetry = poetic, emotions= for other people so nothing I need to worry about cause I don't talk about those...
First of all he KNEW he did something wrong! He LIED. So that's not true that Asperger's don't have the ability to lie, besides he said a bold face lie to me about having a wife and kids that he had to supposedly go spend New Year's Eve with. Then I gave him a chance to explain himself the next time I saw him and he COMPLETELY ignored the matter. I had NO CHOICE but to stop seeing him, because I had a small suspicion he might be married so he had just confirmed to me that he was taken. And what we were doing felt wrong. Eventhough we weren't doing anything wrong, but I liked him. So if he had a wife I had to stop seeing him. That's HIS problem that he lied. I NEVER lied to him. Why tf would a person ask what's wrong when they know they lied.
@@solangelalebron1348 are you replying to me? Your story, heartbreaking as it sounds, doesn't seem to have anything to do with my work story?
I do see myself in your description of your friend! Thanks, those are going to be helpful tips
I was constantly laid off, management doesn’t care or value their employees and I hate working 5 jobs for 11 an hour
I have this problem a lot too, so I totally understand what she was doing. She was responding in the positive tone NT people would expect from "I'm fine thanks!", but because that wasn't the truth, she said the truth, but in that tone. It's like when you ask someone a question, and they say yes but they were simultaneously shaking their head no. I constantly feel the need to people please and give the answers people want, but at the same time feel the need to actually express myself like I'm screaming from the inside of the mask, and it often results in mixed communication like this.
Awkwardness caused by not following a typical script....fascinating thought...I always figured neurotypical people thought more quickly and creatively than I did in conversation.
I loathe small talk or when people ask "how are you?" simply because it's what is expected. I've learned acceptable responses and try not to be awkward at work or in public. But, in doing so I've become so focused on what makes others comfortable that I've lost sight of who I am.
At work I am proactive and ask first. If they follow-up with "and how are you?" I normally reply "I'm doing well, thanks for asking." I don't like to lie. This response works for me because even if I'm having a difficult day, I am "doing well" as my basic needs are met; clean water, food, clothes, etc. If it's a co-worker that I'm close with and I know cares about my answer, I may reply with something like "I'm a bit overwhelmed right now. But I'm looking forward to spending time in my hammock after work to relax."
I wonder, could I have a handful of go-to responses that wouldn't through NTs off, while still allowing me to be authentic? Maybe we could brainstorm some "socially expectable" replies together that allow us to be ourselves? Any suggestions?
U seem like the type of guy a girl can actually just be friends with and u don't try to make it go further and I like that a lot
I often say to myself I experience life differently so if another person doesn't really 'get' me or vibrate with me, I accept it this way. I don't have to have good interaction with everyone, just the few people who I resonate with.
The out-of-the-box questions are awesome, I think the few people who can have an interesting conversation with you that way is still worth more than just fitting in.
I also often try to be interested in the other person first, so they don't have time to ask me questions I find difficult to answer.
I would love it if someone came up to me at a party and asked what my super power was.....that is a conversation I WANT to have! Now that I am older, I am not so interested in being socially appropriate. Socially authentic, kind, happy and interesting are still important to me though...
so what is your superepower?
@@Derek_Garnham One of my super powers is to use my ‘non-existing’ dimples to get what I want. No one can resist them…haha!
Can’t wait for this video Paul! I’m going to be looking for jobs soon so this is perfect timing, take care :)
It's ironic to me that you've posted this video today. Though it's kind of a long story, I'm possibly going to lose my job this week after speaking up about some bullying at work, some of which has to do with my having Asperger's.
When confronting the person who was perpetuating it face to face, they didn't change their attitude. In fact, it got much worse. So I took it to the assistant manager and secretly documented her answers on a voice recorder to my questions regarding workplace policies and the negative culture being enabled in the workplace.
I did this once more when speaking to the store manager, and now have to decide whether to drop the recordings to HR with a letter detailing what I've been dealing with for a month now since I've started this new gig.
Understandably, no one likes a tattle tale, but there's some awful behavior being dismissed at my work place and I wouldn't be able to sleep at night without being able to say I stepped up and did something about it.
Wish me luck, and thank you for making this video. I hope it helps a lot of people.
if they do fire you, you've got a nice lil pile of evidence for a subsequent legal case there :)
I just don't know why people ask questions they dont want answers to. Or why people need to use cues to make sure they are having a "proper" reaction. How is this normal? Seems a bit like you have to be dishonest to appear normal.
The problem is them not us
😆 I kinda agree with you on that one lol
This sounds like a case of wrongful termination.
And if someone says “I lost my job today” you say “that’s unfortunate”. It’s not hard, unless you’re an irrational basket case who hallucinates they can read their minds. People who show up and work hard shouldn’t have to steer around their stupidity or get fired.
As for your personal anecdote, you say:
“What’s your super power?”
I say :
“Complete lack of tact(aka distaste for lying)”.
It’s not hard, and I’d be much more comfortable with THAT open-ended question than the typical probing for personal info.
Agreed. Firing someone because they don't communicate well with others is discrimination.
@@myntndmarriage It doesn’t even sound like she has a problem communicating from what little is described in the video. It sounds like she said “I lost my job today” in plain English and people suffering from a condition I’ll call “stupidity” manage, with great effort of will, to be confused by this simple sentence.
@@cmbaileytstc Paul was saying his friend was told she was not suitable due to her communication style on phone calls.
@@myntndmarriage I listened to the whole video also. There was no example presented to show her “communication style” was unsuited to anything. The only example presented was of her speaking perfectly understandable English and what appear to have been stupid people managing to get confused by clear language. I wonder what such people do when the have to speak with someone who speaks English has a slightly different accent than their region. I have to thus assume the person who fired her also was a bit wrong in the head because it’s nonsense. Like I say, if what is presented here is the whole story I think a wrongful termination suit is possible.
@@cmbaileytstc 1:00 (til 1:18)
Sadness is an overwhelming emotion. If my feelings are hurt, or I'm upset about something, I find other emotions easier to manage. Anger and amusement are quick feelings, and both yelling and laughing help release tension. Sad is just sad. It's heavy and smothering, and I don't know how to deal with it, especially when I'm around other people. So, I grin, either savagely or mockingly while I try to get my bearings. Honestly, when I'm in that state, I couldn't care less about meeting social expectations. It's not reasonable to be expected to help other people understand my feelings when I cannot understand them myself. While I'm feeling like I'm drowning/dying/sinking/falling apart, I don't have the emotional bandwidth to worry about making someone feel awkward.
I ask how people are doing knowing exactly how they are doing, very high emotional intelligence.
I would prefer they break the social norms and either admit something is wrong or try and talk about it, which is what I am attempting to get to by asking how they are doing.
I also tend to draw normies and neurodiverts to me but I prefer to hang around people who understand the peculiar challenges I face.
Hey I usually play by asking questions like if someone says "Hey ! How are you ?" I usually ask them what they want to hear : " Do you want the honest answer or I'm fine is enough ?" if it's a bad day or " Do you want the short version or the long version ?" if it's a good day. That sort of things... I usually answer a question with a question basically.
I just don't care anymore and stay confident in my randomness.
Once I got asked how I was doing and I answered ''I am a litle bit depressed, but I got my shit together so it's not so bad at the end''.
And I transitionned from there to talk about school (for 30 seconds), then asked what the other person what he does for a living to have a mundane question to ask back.
This allow the person to #1 ask me about why I am depressed (was because of school) or #2 keep talking about the more mundane less akward subject if he is not confortable.
Being socially appropriate feels like masking sometimes, and leaves me feeling drained. I would sooner be honest, and let the cards fall as they may. Takes too much work, the other way
To loose a job you must 1st have a job. The 2 times I managed that neither ended unexpectedly nor reluctantly.
Yes NT's have their own scripts & rigid inflexible rules & one of those rules is they make the rules so that's not a disorder. I note that all the 'appropriate way' part's are NT appropriate & not ND appropriate. In case you haven't guessed I'm very social awkward (if I get as far as being verbal) & people usually avoid me most often without even getting as far speaking to me. My general strategy is to avoid 'normal' social situations. Certainly solves the awkwardness but has the side effect of isolation, which isn't as bad as the rejection sensitivity.
I'm generally very mean to people, often annoyed with the social interactions, and I come out and say what I mean in the most vulgar way possible. I grew up being told off about things I couldn't control for so long that I became resentful towards whats socially "normal". I often feel like the "BS" we're engaging in is stupid and the people who engage in it should feel stupid for doing so. It's not successful but it makes me feel better about it at least (lol).
I've learned to just not care if someone doesn't like it because I've come so used to being isolated anyway, it doesn't "help" but most folk don't seem to care anyway since I've seen some of the nicer people on the spectrum treated the same way I've been.
I feel like people like being miserable and not telling the truth calling it the social norm, here in the UK.
Interesting
I just realized I have Asperger's a few weeks ago. I have been really struggling at church with my awkwardness 🤣. I have to laugh to keep from crying! Everyone is SO WONDERFUL, but I get so frustrated. Now that I know what is wrong, I know more of how to proceed.
When people ask how I'm doing, my response is always "Depends." Full Stop. I don't elaborate. I let the other person take it from there. Some get uncomfortable with it as obviously it's not an NT's scripted response, but I've learned many can either engage in it or are actively curious. They WANT to know why I say 'depends', rather than being on a script of social niceties that mean nothing in the long term. Or they nod their head and agree, it really does depend. It's such an ambiguous question. When does my regular checker at the grocery store cross that line of courtesy and asking about this exact moment of my life and actually wanting to know about my day, my week, my month? Or my mailperson whom I chat with for three minutes each day? Or my doctor? When is my best friend wanting to know about the look on my face or trying to catch up because it's been a week? Depends lets the questioner decide exactly how much of a response they are fully wanting from me whither they know I am autistic or not and gives me a little more to gauge my interactions with them on.
If somebody I don't know ask me how I'm doing today I tell them the truth whether they like it or not. Most of them don't know what to say. I don't have time for small talk because it's pointless and useless. I don't have any friends because they make people feel to uncomfortable.
I've lost several jobs. However, I don't think it's because I communicate weirdly.
But I do dislike that "How are you? I'm fine, how are you?" dance. I tend to dodge the question by instead telling people what I have done or what I am doing or plan to do. But I never ask people anything back. I don't feel I'm obligated to do that.
I seriously dislike those social games. Say something if you care, otherwise don't. If you only want to do a social dance game for no sensible reason, just say hi and we'll be over it.
If I had lost my job the sense of shame and rejection would overwhelm me so much that there is no way I’d remain at work the rest of the day to field stupid questions like ‘how are you?’Seriously! How do you effing think??
I hate it when people ask me how I am and they clearly don't care about if I'm ok or not they just saying it to avoid a silence. Same goes for a Mon morn when they say 'how was ya wkend?' your not supposed to actually say how it was and what you did. They just want you to say 'good thanks, and yours?' if it wasn't good - don't tell them, they don't care or want to know. They are just making small talk whilst the are working. Because that's how they like to work. 🤷🏼♀️
I have lost more than one job, but I will not change who I am because by own script is difficult for others to follow.
When I was younger my family and friends would ask me "how do i look in ___" and I responded "do you want constructive criticism or the simple answer". Turns out ppl almost always want the simple answers so I use that example in my everyday life for any question unless I'm asked to explain. I'm too old at this point to care to explain anything if I don't have/want to.
Our adult autistic son achieved a college degree, but would possibly be unemployable if we didn’t have our own business for him to work. He’s absolutely brilliant, but doesn’t seem to have any career goals at all. Just comes in and does what he’s told to do. I find, even with me, he rarely comments unless you ask him a direct question. His 2 sisters, one older, one younger, are also his only friends. Thanks for all the good tips on your channel!
Not wanting much from life has the benefit of feeling content more often than not, but has the detriment of making all pragmatic things seem like a chore. It's a strange existential dilemma that is hard to find an answer to, because it's like being good at accepting reality. But, even if one does develop ambitions, it seems that wanting something isn't enough, you have to show you want it more than anyone else that wants the same thing, which just makes wanting things that much harder. Especially when you don't mind - or, might even feel good about - letting someone else have it. Society sees you as foolish for this, but you accept that about society, because it's the reality of your relation to society. I guess you accept the members of society as they are, because you want to be accepted as you are. Sorry if this seems random, I felt compelled to reply.
@@ProbablePaul Thank you for your insight! I can see what you’re saying. Even though I think I have a touch of autism myself, I still am always trying to understand our son better because he doesn’t advocate for himself well. Over time, I hope he becomes comfortable at work enough to relax and enjoy it and have a feeling of accomplishment.
@@meredithc2755 I can appreciate that. I hope he does too :) Take care
The word subservient springs to mind.
As a high functioning autistic individual with an iq around 87, I wish I could get a structured and small task jobs that doesn’t involve hierarchy and lots of communication, as I find it often challenging. Currently, I’m trying to do house chores such as cleaning, recycling, and sorting laundries by myself, and I wish I can get a structured job related to this, without facing much difficulties even if it is for a small pay and short term as it can add up to my experience.
Paul, I love your videos and I think they are important tools in helping neurodiverse people navigate a neurotypical world. Personally though, I can say that after a lifetime of being undiagnosed but masking to get along in the world I eventually I felt I was losing myself. I became so good at masking that I forgot who I was. Now because of covid and my age I've been able to be at home and I'm trying to rediscover myself. In conjunction with neurodiverse people learning how to navigate the neurotypical world to survive, we need to put forth more a position of understanding people's differences. We can be authentic and still survive in this world if we make more room for all kinds of people. By the way, this pandemic has taught me how overrated appearing to be liked socially is. You will find out who your true friends are in hard times.
Most of my job losses have come down to *not* communicating, as opposed to *how*. First, the couple good jobs I've had, the problem has been not speaking up when I was having trouble with tasks ("blocked" / "blockers" in Kanban / Agile). Falling behind was less of an issue than not talking with my bosses about it.
Second is authority / hierarchy. I've noticed ND have a hard time blindly following authority, while NT seem to freaking live for it (at least having it over you). They wanted me to do something dumb, I didn't - but because I didn't talk with them about the issues, it became insubordination instead of just a little communication challenge. I'm about 50/50 for them getting fired or me. The few wins have been fun in the moment, but not worth the risk, and I didn't learn anything versus pushing through my discomfort talking about issues.
I've reached a point where I hate speaking to neurotypicals. I avoid them. I have a basic "expected" script I stick to... at this time in my in my ignorance who my friends are; I speak freely to.
This is extremely helpful. Thank you!!
I liked the acknowledgement of it being difficult, almost needing superhuman levels of social intelligence and of the truth that in spite of the idea that autistics are stereotyped or need scripts, it's actually just as much neurotypicals who run off certain scripts. I'd like to encourage workplaces and everyone who communicates to be more comfortable with "off script" responses because it isn't actually a hard and fast rule. I think in that situation the right to response of workmates is responding to the kids of the job - a big deal event on it's generally accepted merits: saying "oh dear - all the best" adding in any brief heartfelt & thoughtful detailed further comment like "I'll miss you" "they don't like good people here" - it doesn't sound like your friend lost her job on that specific issue neccesarily but just that the workplace colleagues found it hard to respond and it was another example of awkward communication. Those people were unsure how to give empathy rather than it really being about how your friend was perceived on the phone!? However I do think the gallows humour aspect is important to emphasize: that's not even an NT-ND thing. And that binary isn't all that tight all the time. There are often times I don't know how to respond to other autistics and other neurodiverse people, dyspraxics, ADHDers...
*comment like "I'll miss you" "they don't like good people here" with no expectations - somehow make it t clear there's no need to respond any particular way but accept a CV possiblity that a neurodiverse or neurotypical person may still ruminate on it even if the good will came across & meant something to them!! You can't get perfect interactions. No such thing.
Hi Paul. Very insightful as usual. I am a High Functioning Autistic person. I got diagnosed three years ago when I was 40. I have learned over the decades (still learning) to mask and speak the script, but it can be challenging still. This afternoon I found out from my mother that her cancer is still around after she had a mastectomy with the purpose of removing the whole cancer. I was on my porch and neighbours walked by and said the usual script, “How’s it going?” And, of course, I answered with a masking smile, “I’m fine. Thanks. How are you?” In this case, I wasn’t fine. I felt sad, empty and dead inside which mostly took the form of ambivalence as I was still processing the news, trying to make sense of the consequences as my mother will be starting chemo treatments hopefully in a week. But there are levels of things we can express and to certain people and not to others in order to remain socially acceptable. It’s a strange world we live in. Thanks for your video, Paul!
I remember getting anxious on my way to work when I am not ok in my personal life but I don't want to talk about it. Not knowing how to respond to the question how are you. Because I don't like the NT response "I am find thanks" when I am not, also I know I have a tendency to overshare and trauma dump. I think perhaps saying something like I am not ok but don't want to talk about it might be a good strategy.
I hope all is well however I feel the need to now withdraw from you tubers. I will not allow myself to be drawn into their lives. Blimey I have enough going on right now. Take care x
I need a sign says leave me alone because they will just randomly talk as if need the interaction and I really don’t need random people asking me stuff.
I was sacked when I disclosed my recently diagnosed ASD. I’m a Paramedic and was working for the NHS.
Honestly it's mostly because other people's disinterest in actually listen and understand other people. They want everyone to be just like themselves. If they're not. They stop hanging out with them, or FIRE them. A lot of people lack humanity unfortunately...
When someone asks how I am I often answer "yes and you?"
People often don't realize that I avoided their question.
They happily continue with their ritualistic conversation and I don't have to put in any effort...
I was literally poisoned by one of my coworkers with all of my sleeping pills thinking they would get away with it cause I was suicidal. Thankfully I noticed but I didnt think it really happened till I had more info but by then I had no proof...
Lost my job shortly after for accidentally punching a hole though a wall that I was going to fix.
Now I'm stuck in my truck with my kitty and broke..
I try to meta-communicate sometimes, to tell people plainly something about what is going on in the situation, why I am saying what I'm saying, or what I'm trying to achieve with my words. I do this especially when I feel like too many misunderstandings are about to happen. So, if I say something that doesn't land well, I try to explain what I was trying to do. I find people relate moderately well to this. But then again, I'm not from the anglo-saxon sphere, so if people ask me how I am, it's not completely faux pas to actually answer. Also, in the case of the perky "I lost my job today" - I'm pretty sure I would answer with a question: "is that a good or a bad thing?".
even neurotypical ppl frequently fail at neurotypical conversations. you will be putting too much pressure on yourselves if you expect 100% success rate at that.
Had a similar situation recently. Didn't lose my job but blurted out my mental state to a rabdom colleague. Oops. Got tumbleweeds.
It seems that ppl (anyone; colleagues; students) I interact with can easily get confused by me -- this confusion can turn into anxiety which can then lead to them lashing out. I am trying to learn how to say less, and how to guide ppl with the language they expect... This requires me to be multilingual, so to speak.
You don't have to answer "fine," but keep your answer brief, use the creaked door method which can be found via Ted talk, wish than a better day than yours if you wish and It's appropriate and give them a chance to respond. You can always answer briefly and move into better topics.
If you don't care how I am then don't ask me! This has baffled me since a child, and I'm 54. I never ask strangers how they are. I simply smile and say hello. What's so hard about that? Every single person was happy to be noticed, and all were happy to keep moving on in their lives. Every person needs to stop asking strangers how they are because we all know the person asking really doesn't care. Anyone that uses that phrase with me is immediately dismissed as a fake, and tagged as a potential headache to deal with. The autistic woman did nothing wrong in this story.
i think people are generally intrigued with me because i have a unique sense of humor and my lack of social cues comes off as confidence sometimes but i just say things honestly. people also tend to think i'm rude because i don't look at them. i'd describe my social skills as a C-, it's barely passing but i am definitely on the verge of being outcasted constantly.
I have had people get upset when I don't say "I am good" when asked "How are you?". I had someone say authoritatively your suppose to say "I am good". I was like "Why are you even asking people how they are then?". I feel like some people are closeted neural atypicals. I refuse to lye about how I am doing to make others feel comfortable. Don't ask, if you don't want to know. Just say what you mean like "I hope you are doing well." and walk away, because actually, that is all you are really doing.
This video is convincing me even more that we Need to study neurotypicals. They do Way too much stuff that makes no sense. I suppose the problem with that is that there are a lot of nd ppl undiagnosed, so you'd need to test them first to make sure they're actually nt, which maybe would make this research difficult in large scale. But I'm tired of us assuming they're "normal" and the standard and we are the ones who are weird/doing something else.
I feel like I have learned the socially acceptable way of communicating early on in my life, but I have selective mutism when in most social situations, so I cant actually speak. I don't know how to change that.
I love the question “what’s your superpower”. :) Gives the option to answer with something I AM, rather than something I DO.
Then again, I could be considered ND (as someone with ADHD at least). So, 🤷♀️
I'm great and horrible at communication, sometimes I go for hours on end, talking and talking, sometimes you can't get a peep out of me. Sometimes I go for weeks or even months without talking to people on phone.
This person seems to dislike his job. If you are happy to be fired, it's because this is what you want the most.
If you really suck at your job, or you're an asshole to everyone, I will be very happy to see you that way.
A guy at my job said that he have found a new job. I was so happy inside because that guy was bad and lazy.