Jesus Can't Be God | Challenge Response
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Alan Shlemon of Stand to Reason responds to this week's challenge: "Jesus can't be God."
#StandtoReason #Apologetics #Christianity
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Excellent point about the manuscripts dating before the Qu'ran, I'd bet that many Muslim believers haven't considered that point!
I enjoy your videos very much. Keep up the great work!!! Thanks!!!
Allah does not say that he will protect gospels from changing. In fact, Allays says in the Quran '' I revealed this book and i will protect it from the corruption. You are wrong brother.
Arius, a brilliant man argued that Jesus cannot be God at the council of Nicea using the same reasoning. The council decided that Jesus and the Holy Spirit MUST be God by one iota.
Jesus, 100% man, 100% God.🌬✝️
Jesus was NOT God, and the Trinity is a FALSE doctrine. How so? We are told in (Deuteronomy 13:6-8) that the God of Israel commanded the Jewish people NOT to believe of any GOD that their forefathers-ancestors did NOT worship. In the days of Jesus, the Jewish people worshipped the FATHER as the ONLY God (John 8:54) and did NOT believe in Trinity. Jesus himself said the ONLY TRUE GOD is the FATHER (John 17:3).
@S MK , reread the scriptures. Jesus did make claims to be GOD himself that was manifested in the flesh. Most of the the references can be found in the gospel of John. John 8:58 was a direct reference to GOD and Jesus being one and the same going back to the burning bush speaking to Moses. John 8:59, the people were stoning him.because of this direct correlation. John 14:6 I am the way truth and life.... John 10:10 shows that he was the one to give life. There are many other references I could come up with to claim Jesus made reference to deity. Another one was at his baptism, the Holy spirit in form of the dove flown over him, and a voice saying this is my beloved son hear him.
The most important thing is that his claims were backed up by fullfilled prophecies of the Old Testament, examples like Isaiah 53, and proved this by actually being crucified, buried, and rose again on the third day, conquering death. I have to dig in a little more, but if you want I can give from a Jewish perspective some of the most significant prophecies fulfilled that he was the promised Messiah that he could only fulfill. Go back to the book of Genesis 1:26. In this context of creation of Man Kind, he said, LET US create mankind, which was a direct reference to the plurality of who GOD is by His nature. This was was the first reference regarding the triune nature of GOD.
@@smk1189 You are right about what the Jews believed. That’s why they crucified Christ. But they are not the authority, the scriptures are.
Jesus is not a different God. There is one God, period. One God, Who is timeless, used His creative power over the universe to appears within space-time as three Persons.
Go back to the Hebrew Old Testament and you will find that most of the time, the word for God is Elohim, which is plural, although it is used with singular verbs. For example, Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning, Elohim (Gods) created (singular) the heavens and the Earth.”
“Trinity” is not a single doctrine; it is the label for a group of scriptural claims.
@@ricksonora6656 The ONLY TRUE God according to Jesus himself is the FATHER (John 17:3) which means the Trinity is FALSE. . . .Jesus did put the Scribe and Pharisees as authority over his followers (Matthew 23:1-3) as long as they teach and preach what is written in the Torah, the Jewish Scripture cannot be BROKEN (John 10:35). The Jews in the days of Jesus did NOT believe in a Messiah will come to atone for their sins, they believed as Jesus "ETERNAL LIFE" is to KEEP the Mosiac teachings (Luke 10:25-28). Salvation comes from the JEWS that is according to JESUS (John 4:22) and NOT from Jesus (Acts 4:12). Paul is WRONG in (Romans 10:9).
@@smk1189 Again, what the Jews expected is irrelevant. Just look at their history of apostasy and judgment by God. Only what the scriptures say is relevant.
It’s consternating to see you cite the authority of Judaea’s rulers, as though that meant they were right in their theology, while ignoring Jesus’s excoriating condemnation of those rulers. Read verses 29-36. Do you really think people with right theology would have committed such atrocities against God’s prophets? By what logic do you cherry-pick Matthew 23:1-3 and ignore 23:3-39?
RE John 17:3: Read verse 5 and then read Isaiah 42:8 and 48:11. Then read John 1:1-3. Your theology-proper has more holes than a sponge.
That there is one true God does not contradict timeless God’s ability to exist in space-time as three Persons. Your argument about 17:3 is a non sequitur.
Yes, the scriptures cannot be broken, but the Mosaic Covenant WAS broken by the Jews, so God effected the penalty provisions by destroying Judea, Jerusalem, and the Temple. Twice! The Law was fulfilled by Christ, so God put a new covenant in its place. The new covenant extended the Abrahamic Covenant. Abraham believed God, and God credited his faith to him for righteousness. You don’t believe on God; you believe in your self righteousness. God continued revealing Himself through His Person of Christ, and you cling to an obsolete understanding. God led His people across the Jordan while you hunkered down in the desert.
The Way remains open. The Savior beckons.
It is you who tries to break the scriptures by rejecting all that God has done. Wallowing in self righteousness brings you under God’s curse (Deuteronomy 27:26).
Amazing💯 thx👍✌
The full verse surah 6 verse 114-115 :(and the word of your god has been complete honestly and justicely and no thing replaceable to his word and he’s (God)the hearing and all knowing)
So the explanation of the verse is that the word of god is complete which is the Quran and nothing can change his word so he meant the Quran in this verse and not the other books
Bc it’s the last Ibrahimic religion and the word complete means till the end
Jesus was NOT God, and the Trinity is a FALSE doctrine. How so? We are told in (Deuteronomy 13:6-8) that the God of Israel commanded the Jewish people NOT to believe of any GOD that their forefathers-ancestors did NOT worship. In the days of Jesus, the Jewish people worshipped the FATHER as the ONLY God (John 8:54) and did NOT believe in Trinity. Jesus himself said the ONLY TRUE GOD is the FATHER (John 17:3).
The quran says that what God revealed to Jesus was the pure word of God, i.e, the ORIGINAL GOSPEL in the Aramaic language, verbatim. And not the present four accounts of the life and teachings of Jesus and the letters of Paul. However, even in these four gospels the word of God is to be found therein in fragmentary form. Same goes for the Torah. Infact, Jews admit that the original torah was put in the ark of the covenant and the ark is now lost. So the people of the book have to follow what God has freshly revealed in the Quran which is in the riginal form for their savation.
The true ark of the covenant was found a long time ago. Jews, Muslims, and even most Christians have missed Isaiah's teaching that we who follow Yahweh ARE the covenant. Isaiah, among other OT writers, also prophesied the coming of the Messiah. It is explained by Paul in his letter to the church at Galatia that we become clothed in Christ through burial, death, and resurrection with Him in baptism. Christ then becomes our protective garment who guides the covenant through the world. Christ IS the ark of the covenant!
The Quran mentions the Injeel which is the Gospel of Jesus and not the 4 gospels accredited to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
Mistake nr 1 and the next mistake you made is quoting John 10:30, the father and I are one. This is about the purpose and not being divine. Also in John 17:21 Jesus says that the disciples are one with God and Jesus which destroys your John 10:30 quote. Here you are making all of these assumptions while you don’t know the bible!
Sounds like you don't know what Gospel is.
@@HearGodsWord
Enlighten me, why won’t you address my point and educate me?
@@Untoldtruth-f9y Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all affirm the same Gospel, so there is only one, which is what the Injeel says too. You suggest that there's 4.
@@HearGodsWord
Correction it’s the Gospel according to Mark, according to Matthew, according to Luke and according to John.
And there are were many more gospels but these were canonised and contain contradictions.
Don’t make false claims about Quran, Injeel does not refer to Matthew, Mark, Luke nor John..
@@Untoldtruth-f9y wow, you still dont get it!
Talking to Muslims recently who brought up this point thanks for the help.
Jesus (pbuh) said, “By myself I can do NOTHING; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.” [John 5:30]
God give Jesus power when he wasn't born yet.
Jesus is God. He didn’t need to give Himself power.
I am not sure if this is a joke or not? The tactic boils down to saying, "your book (the Quran) which I believe to be false, says to trust my book (Bible) just as much as you trust yours."
The flaw in that thinking is so glaringly obvious but I will point it out for those who are not used to thinking logically. If you are telling someone the Quran is false, how can you depend on its assurance that the Bible is "true"? Even in the best case scenario what you are doing is saying that both books are equally trustworthy. So if you say the Quran is _not_ trustworthy that means (by their equality) the Bible is _not_ trustworthy too.
Your logic confuses perspectives, creating category errors.
The argument is not about what the Christian believes. It is about what the Muslim believes. Since the Muslim believes the Quran, he must believe what it says about the Bible. Whether the Christian believes the Quran is irrelevant.
The problem for the Muslim becomes: Since the Quran requires him to believe the Bible (at least, the gospels), he must believe what the gospels say about Jesus. But if he believes what the gospels say about Jesus, he must reject the Quran that contradicts the gospels.
His choices, then, are
- accept that the Quran is wrong but cling to it anyway (blind faith)
- reject both the Quran and the Bible (disbelief)
- reject the Quran and embrace what the gospels say about Jesus because of the evidence (faith)
@@ricksonora6656 Exactly!
"I and the father are one" doesn't cut it.
Why not, in your opinion?
Because Jesus asked God to make his followers ONE, WITH them, _just as_ Jesus and God are ONE.
Rachel Smith The Amazing Spider Man volume 1, issue 2 says that, "He can walk on walls like a spider." Is that evidence that a human man named Peter could walk on walls?
A claim in a book is _not_ evidence.
when you quoted john 10:30 "i and the father are one" and that some how that proves the trinity. Yehua(Jesus) also said " john 17:11 "Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we " does that mean we are gods too ? . Now the last question if jesus is God and the bible states that God cannot be tempted . Was jesus tempted ? take care brother.
I hope this helps:
I believe you are referring to James 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
And Matthew 4:1
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
1. To tempt someone means to try convince them to do something. To make that 'something' (usually something wrong/immoral) look attractive.
2. That person can respond to that temptation by either being tempted (convinced to consider do that 'something') or not tempted (not considering that 'something'/temptation)
Jesus never considered giving in to the temptation (didn't feel tempted), although satan tried to tempt him.
James 1:13 is referring to being convinced to consider the temptation. (#2)
Matthew 4:1 is referring to satan's attempt to convince Jesus to consider doing something wrong/immoral (#1)
iT2Mi thanks for the reply, but I think you are changing the subject. The question wasn't if he was given in or not, the point was that he was tempted. And either he was or not. Take care
Erik Braganca You are missing the point, Erik. James 1:13 is referring to a different sense of the word 'tempt' than Matthew 4:1.
Erik Braganca
He was tempted in the sense that someone tried to tempt him but he was not tempted in that he never considered doing that which they were trying to tempt. The context is everything.
He is saying that they may be one, the men given him that is, may be one and the same in the holy spirit, believers and followers of Jesus, that they may be the same. in the same way that Christ and God were the same. It is a comparison of likeness not in joining with God and Jesus.
Think of it as comparing the coming together of the Church to be one entity as being the same as Jesus and God being one entity. Al being of like mind nd thinking as followers of Christ just as God and Jesus are of like mind and thinking.
Cool....sophistry lessons!
Islam, Christianity, Judaism , it's all fiction.
😂
Jesus was zero % GOD while walking in the Flesh; he was ONE SPIRIT with God (John 17:21,23) just like any Man that is indwelled by the Holy Spirit (1Cor 6:17).
"Jesus" was once part of GOD/Elohim/Creators (Gen 1:26, Col 1:15-17), and "Jesus" EMPTIED Himself of His Glory/Godhood and became a MAN (Phil 2:6-7) in order to be the KinsMAN Redeemer of MANkind by obeying God perfectly as a MAN and thus paying in full for the disobedience of the First MAN Adam (1Cor 15:21-22,45,47, Rom 5:12-21). Jesus was zero % GOD at his physical birth; Jesus was simply the anointed Jewish Messiah (Dan 7:13-14) -- and so Jesus himself claims when accused by the Pharisees (Matt 26:63-65, Mark 14:61-62, Luke 22:67-70).
just before his crucifixion, Jesus asked God to RESTORE Jesus' Glory/Godhood that Jesus had before the worlds were made (John 17:4-5); and that is exactly what God did (Rev 1:11-18, Phil 2:9-11). it is a GLORIFIED GOD MAN that sits on the right hand of GOD (Heb 10:12).
and because ETERNAL God sacrificed His ETERNAL Glory/Godhood to save Mankind, punishment for rejecting Jesus is ETERNAL torment (Matt 25:41,46).
Jesus was NOT God, and the Trinity is a FALSE doctrine. How so? We are told in (Deuteronomy 13:6-8) that the God of Israel commanded the Jewish people NOT to believe of any GOD that their forefathers-ancestors did NOT worship. In the days of Jesus, the Jewish people worshipped the FATHER as the ONLY God (John 8:54) and did NOT believe in Trinity. Jesus himself said the ONLY TRUE GOD is the FATHER (John 17:3).
We are "God". God is one consciousness (the universe) . the universe is God and everything in it too. all is one. The universie (God) can split up and create ANYTHING. God has split up into infinitely small consciousnesses with different egos. we all are God but we have illusions.. like egos and belief system that leads us to believe that we are separate beings. I AM ANOTHER YOU, YOU ARE ANOTHER ME. The universe consists of only one particle moving infinitely fast so it's appear to be everywhere at the same time. There is only one particle. you are made of the same particle as everything in the whole universe.. All is one,one is all we are creating the universe and we are the universe and i know even more... one love !
Ps. Meditation is the key
Why do you believe that?
I am enlightened. i know its true its not a belief its a fact. do meditation and you will know. everything fits with what i just said. i know more than you can imagine. remember this knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world. and the only thing that interferes with my learning is my education
Light Being What you believe in can be a fact, I believe in many things that are facts. I've done plenty of meditation in search of truth, and I've been shown, independently of meditation, that God is one and that God is independent of the universe and of ourselves.
look up bashar (darryl anka)
I did not find my answer from him i found it from my self and everytime i meditatie to find the answer about God i found the same answer in the end everytime, creation is what people call God. i must have a mush higher vibration then others our something i guess. i learn everything so fast and i have a so deep understanding its crazy. im only 18 and i remember when i was like 7 already then i could see geometric patterns when i closed my eyes. im truly happy to be who i am.
sorry for my english.
It's not abnormal to see geometric patterns with your eyes closed, it's simply what anyone's brain does when it's dark. How do you get these answers when you meditate?
Some prooftexts:
*Jesus is the Creator and God in flesh*
John 1:1-3, 14 NASB
_In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being..._
_14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth._
Colossians 2:9 NASB
_For in Him _*_all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,_*
Colossians 1:15 NASB
_He is the _*_image of the invisible God,_*_ the firstborn of all creation._
Colossians 1:18-19 NASB
_He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father's good pleasure for _*_all the fullness to dwell in Him,_*
John 14:7-9 NASB
_"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father '?_
*Jesus is equal to God*
Philippians 2:5-8 NASB
_Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard _*_equality with God_*_ a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross._
*The Father calls Jesus God*
Hebrews 1:5-9 NASB
_For to which of the angels did He ever say,_
_“You are My Son,_
_Today I have begotten You”?_
_And again,_
_“I will be a Father to Him_
_And He shall be a Son to Me”?_
_And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,_
_“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”_
_And of the angels He says,_
_“Who makes His angels winds,_
_And His ministers a flame of fire.”_
_But of the Son He says,_
_“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,_
_And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom._
_“You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;_
*God's Son has the same name as God*
Proverbs 30:4 NASB
_Who has ascended into heaven and descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has wrapped the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is _*_His name or His son's name?_*_ Surely you know!_
Isaiah 9:6 NASB
_For a child will be born to us, a _*_son_*_ will be given to us;_
_And the government will rest on His shoulders;_
_And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, _*_Mighty God, Eternal Father,_*_ Prince of Peace._
Revelation 19:16 NASB
_And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, _*_"KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."_*
*The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of one name*
Matthew 28:19 NASB
_"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,_
*Jesus refers to Himself as God/"I am" (see Exodus **3:14**)*
John 6:35 NASB
_Jesus said to them, _*_“I am_*_ the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst._
John 8:12 NASB
_Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, _*_“I am_*_ the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”_
John 8:58 NASB
_Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, _*_I am."_*
John 10:9 NASB
*_I am_*_ the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture._
John 10:11, 14 NASB
*_“I am_*_ the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep... 14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,_
John 11:25 NASB
_Jesus said to her, _*_“I am_*_ the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,_
John 14:6 NASB
_Jesus said to him, _*_“I am_*_ the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me._
John 15:1, 5 NASB
*_“I am_*_ the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser... 5 I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing._
*Jesus' Spirit is God's Spirit*
Philippians 1:19 NASB
_for I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the provision of the _*_Spirit of Jesus Christ,_*
Acts 16:7 NASB
_and after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the _*_Spirit of Jesus_*_ did not permit them;_
Disclaimer: *The Son is not the Father because Jesus' voice is distinct from the Father's, and the Son is not the Holy Spirit because the Spirit had to descend upon the Son.*
Matthew 3:16-17 NASB
_After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the _*_Spirit of God descending as a dove_*_ and lighting on Him, and behold, a _*_voice out of the heavens_*_ said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."_
Mark 9:7 NASB
_Then a cloud formed, overshadowing them, and a _*_voice came out of the cloud,_*_ "This is My beloved Son, listen to Him!"_
Mark 1:11 NASB
_and a _*_voice came out of the heavens:_*_ "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."_
Luke 3:22 NASB
and the *Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove,* and a *voice came out of heaven,* "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."
Luke 9:35 NASB
_Then a _*_voice came out of the cloud,_*_ saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"_
John 12:28
_"Father, glorify Your name." Then a _*_voice came out of heaven:_*_ "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."_
More prooftexts:
www.godandscience.org/doctrine/was_jesus_god.html
Jesus was NOT God, and the Trinity is a FALSE doctrine. How so? We are told in (Deuteronomy 13:6-8) that the God of Israel commanded the Jewish people NOT to believe of any GOD that their forefathers-ancestors did NOT worship. In the days of Jesus, the Jewish people worshipped the FATHER as the ONLY God (John 8:54) and did NOT believe in Trinity. Jesus himself said the ONLY TRUE GOD is the FATHER (John 17:3).