Fixing EVERY Saiyan Form - Dragon Ball Discussion
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Saiyans have a lot of forms, but each has their own unique flaws, or has become obsolete. How can we fix that, and which form is the worst? Today, we'll be going over hypothetical ways to fix every Saiyan transformation!
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#DBZ #DBS #DragonBallSuper
Thanks to Josh for editing another video for me 🗿
twitter.com/maxwell_huhok?s=21
What if goku escaped to vampa part 12
Please
Great vid already
At least he didn't make you blink while this
Grade 3 worst 🗿
Who else likes god more then blue
Me
Super Saiyan God is treated like shit. It needs more love. How Blue is portrayed in Super is really shit.
@@ultimatecontagion facts. I mean come on dbs you make goku and vegeta get god transformations and then have them fail with them in literly every saga with a villian and they are randomly able to handle goku and vegeta as gods.
Duck Ssjb
Looks better
Joke Theory: What if Goku's Ki is literally leaking out of him because of the hole where his tail used to be?
bro that actually makes sense in a way since GT Goku had a tail and could use SS3 for longer...
*_SS4 IN SUPER WHEN_*
like ssj3 is the product of the body trying to turn ssj4 but gets stunned because no tail I like the idea
Hmmm makes sense
It's not a joke the creator himself said that there tails give them better control of their forms and give them the power to go ape
@@doodlebro. ssj4 isn’t canon
Sure Ozaru is outdated but I'll always be a bit upset that it was just *completely* abandoned, because at the base of things Saiyans are space monkey men and its an important part of their heritage.
@GHZ J2691 the kais/angels were the first and created life in their image. Idc if this isn’t canon it’s the only thing that makes sense so by default it is now canon.
Broly is your solution.
I remember in 2015 when Super was announced, there was a promo with Goku and Vegeta having tails. Went no where I guess
@@SX1995able show me this promo. Might have been fanmade, when people thought super was after gt
That’s why 4 is my favorite form it really ties into the heritage of saiyans.
I liked SSG a lot. He returned to base form and using flames to represent ki was cherry on top
Yeah, SSG was pretty great. SSB is awful, especially because they went ahead and ditched SSG almost immediately. But SSB is just SSJ but more power. Literally the same thing. SSG had changes to appearances and fighting style, and for the first time in a long time it showed Goku as a pure martial artist rather than an energy blast and big punch machine.
@@sethb3090 SSG had the potential to have all these cool techniques and abilities limited to the form itself, which could make it more like a trick and strategy type form mixed with their fighting styles to win against stronger opponents like when Goku used his god bind move on Broly in the movie. SSB is literally just the brawler type form SSJ but with SSG type power. It makes sense why it was created but it just isn’t satisfactory for us fans, or me at least.
Yes it's like jirens aura
Ssjb should have been a dramatic transformation in the goku black arc when zamasu tells goku about how he killed his family and not just a showcase in resurrection F
222nd 👍
Nobody:
GT gogeta: “no go back I want to be monke”
Lol
Yes
Reject god-ki
Return to mon-ki
@@dr.spycrab4089 yes
Lols 😂
This man’s avatar is literally just a purple Perfect Cell with the Incredibles insignia on his chest
😂😂😂😂
yea wtf😂
you are just realizing this now
@@The_Irish_Man how didn't he realize this later
you dont say?
I've always absoulutly hated how the red haired form was called "super sayian god" and the blue haired form is called either "super sayian god super sayian" or "super sayian blue". It's super dumb because the red haired form is literally just their base form with god ki and the blue is super sayian form with god ki. Therefore the red haired form should be called "sayian god" and the blue "super sayian god".
I never made that distinction...Makes much more sense what you said
I didn't even realise this...
This one comment has made more sense than the past 3 transformations I swear
Let’s all start calling these transformations like this now this makes sense
So there can be a SSJB2 and 3...
For SSJ3, I think there is a semi official fix for it. In GT and Heroes, it was implied that having a tail makes the form a lot more stable.
Really? Huh. And here I thought that was just a headcanon I or someone else came up with. Cool to see that it is canon.
@@enderknight1442well, it is not a canon explanation, but it’s better than nothing
Tails gives saiyans better ki control in general
Same... I actually like SSJ3. It’s like a double edge sword, you need more power, activate SSJ3 to get it done quickly. Plus design wise, it really looks cool, real menacing.
My Favorite Form.
Too bad it was made absolutely useless after z 😡😭
True that, might have lost the eyebrows but it still looks pretty cool
All I think about ssj3 is the eyebrow hair went into head hair
It was my fave too should have been a berserker type transformation just makes u a absolute tank raw strength stamina speed at the cost of ki blasts and reason
I'd just like to point out that no one has ever gone Super Saiyan with a tail (in canon) and that greatly bothers me.....
broly did
@@Jay-gj3jd no
@@Jay-gj3jd no he didn't 🙄
@@aoishizuki9493 how do you know 🤷🏽♂️ we've never seen it so realistically it could do nothing or it could do EVERYTHING.
@@aoishizuki9493 please carefully reread my comment.
Ssj3 is my favorite... it sucks that they basically “nerf “ it because it’s too hard to draw for animators
SSJ3 coolest looking, best ost, awesome transformation, ill never understand how people can not like ssj3
Deff my favorite
Ssj4 is better
I agree, but I also completely understand why they don't use it for the animators as I would NEVER want to draw that nevertheless have to draw it for hundreds of times
Unless I was rohan
@@lazyliongames5858 IS THAT A JOJO REFERENCE-
I can’t believe no one has mentioned this. To improve these forms, they need to have unique traits for each of them. For example, in the BOG movie, they introduced that the God form has a unique healing property. So to make each form useful, make each of them have a unique property
I'd love to see their goal as them being able to switch between transformations faster and more efficiently at will, with the objective of taking advantage of each unique property (as you suggested) for each specific situation of a fight.
Much better than just constantly adding a new transformation that is essentially just same as previous, but faster/stronger and with some visual change
wait am i dense? when???
@@bonrick_0494 Little dense, but Super Saiyan God has a healing property. During the battle of gods you can see it healing Goku back up. And in the manga he uses it to heal Roshi. However it seems to be very limited and can't use it in the middle of the fight. Probably requires concentration that only not being in battle can provide. And in the Granola arc he uses the healing properties of it to heal himself in base. But all of these situations he's not actively fighting and uses it to either return to the fight or to return someone else to a fight
I thought the video was gonna talk about that but I got seriously dissapointed
Exactly this! I've wanted that for so long. God being an energy conserving form that allows for passive healing and godly techniques. And Blue being an all out power form allowing goku and Vegeta to fight at max with godly ki.
Personally, I wish that UI and UE didn't give strength boasts. They were just blue strength plus instant dodging or blue strength plus damage giving added boasts.
I remember going to the public library back in the day to google images and printing copies of all the DBZ characters paying 10 cents each copy then I would take them home and try to draw them!
Oh how times have changed :'(
@@urenaanthony91
This is a good change
Readily available resources in the palm of our hands
Ayoo!
@@applehazeva2739 😳
Those were simpler times...
Off topic but Blue Evolved has missed potential as a name, Royal Blue would’ve been so much better for Vegeta
Agreed
true ssb
@khalid waleed I know it’s a little silly but it’s definitely not the worst name for a transformation like golden frieza or even “super saiyan god super saiyan”
@khalid waleed true super s blue
@khalid waleed ore accended
Personally, SS4 is my favorite. Love the unique design and attitude change that accompanies it. It was pretty fun watching Goku turn from a fun, carefree character to a more serious, egotistical character.
Too bad it’s not canon, I would’ve loved to see frieza’s reaction to watching them turn into actual monkeys
@@MUIDYLANICE Goku: *Turns Super Saiyan 4*
Frieza yelling from the backround: "HA, called it.
He does that with ssj3 as well
I also rly like how it goes back to the great ape form which has since been abandoned :/
100th like
I feel like grade 3 could have been useful during beam clashes. It's like Roshi's buff form.
Yk i never thought about that. That’s An amazing point
Huuuuuge point right here
Or just general grappling, grabbing, pinning somebody down for long enough, etc. Like when Goku had to hold Raditz hostage to allow Piccolo to charge and hit with the special beam cannon
Or use grade 2 to reach the enemy and give grade 3 to attack and then go back down to grade 2. Like the kaioken.
It wouldn’t woek because Grade 3 requires quite a bit of extra time to get into, the muscle mass can’t increase instantly. While SSG/SSB is Ki-only, so it you can switch instantly
For one of the first times we almost see the full body of ultra cell
Ultra Cell? I thought it was cell if he was in the Incredibles
Incredi-Cell
Yeah I just noticed
@@cereal9879 meh similar adjectives tbf
@@cereal9879 SUPER CELL
Ah yes, Red + Yellow = Blue...
mabye they saving purple
@@largemarge2098 purple is UI omen
@@F-18Super purple should had been ssjb mastered since they alternate between ssjb and ssjg
@@DM-xi3hw nah a darker SSGSS was a much better idea
Nah think about it more like a blue star is hotter and brighter than red star (God
I’ve always thought SS2 was the coolest looking. Just thicker slightly longer hair but looks the coolest to me lmao
and electricity all around
@@Yarblocosifilitico plasma*
In teen Gohan and Majin Vegeta right?
@@SomeoneThatIsHappy is it supposed to be plasma? Plasma is fire or the aurora borealis. It really seems like electricity to me.
I think SS was the coolest, just the OG super saiyan you know
I still think my favorite transformations in Dragon Ball are Ultra Instinct and Ego. They are so good from a characterization standpoint and it makes Goku and Vegeta more distinct in their movesets
S3 the sheer amount of effort to pull that off is insane. Even goku doesn't want to transform to that again
Vegeta straight up doesnt want to use it too lmao
But the sad part is its trash
@Ellin Amran you have to use a lot of power to use it while useing a lot of power to stay in the form its overall pretty bad for long fights. Which most fights in dbs are long. Unless you have around 1000 beans then it wont even last him as long as the fight with kid buu on the kai's world. (Which is shown in the anime)
@@TRYhollow0 its just ki control, much like ssj3, ssjb is the same thing when it was shown, goku described how much ki he has to consume to keep the form going.
Ssj1 and ssjg are probably the only forms that have little to no drawbacks
Its cause it taps in all the potential of the user so it would make sense
SSJ2 has always been a weird transformation to me. In the Cell Saga it was phenomenal but after that it felt almost like an afterthought and just a transition to SSJ3. Like after Cell, the form just never gets to truly shine or have a big standout moment. Also heard that Toriyama forgot about it and thought that SSJ3 was SSJ2 (don't know how true this is but I wouldnt be surprised)
SSJ Blue for me is my least favorite. Literally comes out of nowhere with no build up and essentially tosses the much more interesting SSJ God to the side almost immediately after its introduced. Also didnt help that it was overused to shit and watching it get beaten time and time again made it lose its luster.
I don't like SSJ3 for the same reason you don't like Blue. It came out of nowhere and tossed aside a form that actually had a narrative building up to it. Combined with being added in my least favorite arc, I wasn't a fan. It's at least original by comparison to blue I guess.
@@tkbryan95 Yeeeeah I can't argue with you there. SSJ3, while visually cool, is pretty lackluster especially with how it barely got used. At least SSJ2 had SOME type of shine before it got overshadowed. SSJ God had one movie where it was introduced, and lost the final fight mind you, before SSJ Blue comes out of nowhere and then we don't see SSJ God again for so long.
My headcanon (don't know if its confirmed officially) is that ssj2 is a form where the user managed to acquire the power of ssj grade 3 without the drop in speed. So it is the pinnacle of evolved super sayian form, maximum power with maximum speed.
Honestly God is one of my favorite forms, right under UI Omen, something about it is so vibrant and really fits with Goku's personality
@@beywheelzhater8930 God is honestly a pretty interesting form that I feel couldve been delved into way more just like the original SSJ form, but sadly got tossed aside by the next movie.
I like the idea that 3 is the result of forcing every drop of power out of Super Saiyan, so you can't reduce the stamina drain but you can bring up the power.
So the 400×base power we saw from Goku was the result of training in Otherworld, and by Battle of Gods it would be even stronger.
You are everywhere
"Giant buff Cailifla wasn't something I really wanted to see"
That's COWARD talk
Bigger boobas
@@Sushidog2005 bigga thighs
That’s CUCK talk.
Real heroes date Android 21.
Bigger everything
Super sayian 4 is the most badass looking form in my book.
Hell yeah it is.
@Altimoix too slim to me. Like goku was cutting bulk/went on a diet. Didn't need to bigger than base or ss but I don't like the slimmer look. I think buu saga ss2 perfected the look besides ss4
I want in dbs 2
I hope they merge it with SSG because I like both a lot and based on what talented artists show, it looks nice
Super Saiyan four with red hair should have been their god form.
Wasnt ssj3 easier to maintain while he was training in the afterlife? Something about the limitations of a physical body, maybe I remember incorrectly.
No that's exactly what he said. Being dead he had no limitation to that form. The reason he couldn't use it for long while "dead" and on earth was that it sped up the time he had left because it was draining the borrowed body he was using for a day.
I have an idea to fix sjj3 tho if they apply the training they used to get ssjgssj or ssjblue by closing off the leaks where there energy comes out and by focusing on keeping the ki in use that in ssj3 and its possible to make it stronger.
Tbf, Piccolo noted how tired Goku looked after using SSJ3 against Fat Buu.
He didn't notice the significant energy leak while he was dead. He knew it took alot of power to use though
I think the best way to fix most transformations in the DB universe, is transformations having different attributes or abilities. Maybe one makes you faster but hit weaker. Or one gives you crazy ki but tire you out faster. Maybe one gives you some random ability all together. For the most part, every transformation just makes you a better you.
I really like ssj4, it feels to me like it's the closest to what either the original legendary super Saiyan might have looked like, or what I would have imagined a super Saiyan god, cause to me just changing hair color doesn't fit well with the whole monkey thing, and ssj4 takes that and makes it into a part of the transformation unlike basically every other form
I agree. Although technically non-canon, ssj4 is by far the best and most logical transformation. Visually, I would only change the color of the fur from red to golden brown. I absolutely hate most of the new transformations in super.
Who?
Agreed. Super saiyan 4 mixing great ape into a human body with a super saiyan is so smart. It looks so damn cool and it’s not just a recolour. It’s actually a original form. It looks so good.
nah, ssjg is better and the design looks cooler.
@@Ligmaments I'd also probably add fur over the abs, and maybe chest, since it looks weird without it.
I’m more of a ssj3-4 guy than the god angels form
So you're a furry
@@GermanKinsmen 😂
As long as you're not some GTtard who says SSJ4 is above God or Blue then I could care less.
@@zye4809
So true
People thinking SSJ4 is stronger than SSB lmao💀😭
@@willi898 Yeah those type or people take Gokus statement that he had infinite Power literally lmao like since King Piccolo said he was invincible dose that actually mean he was invincible?
The best is SS4,or if you grew up with Japanese or anything that speaks up "Saiyajin" SSJ4
Its because its Monke power,no Godly bs,the Primal monki is superior
Also it works the best narratively.
Yes
But..... You forgot Fusion 4?
Another thing to note is that it may not be as strong as Super Saiyan Blue, but in terms of pros and cons, it literally has NO CONS whatsoever meaning it's a helluva lot easier to use then Blue.
@@BluXrCist but...... Does Gogeta's SSJ4 have more perks than your usual SSJ4?
Here's an idea for Super Saiyan 3: keep the energy drain, but do it all at once. Like, when the body is fully acclimated, the form takes a ton of energy to access, but after that it's stable. It becomes a big gamble if used too late in a fight.
If it's done all at once doesn't that mean he reverts back to base form?
@@TheUnseenPath
Like he did against Kid Buu? Yeah, except it would happen right away. So, you either need to start off with Super Saiyan 3 from the get-go, and therefore go in with a gas tank that's partially empty, or you risk burning all that energy to access the form and reverting right back to base when you get it, if you get it at all.
As in, SSJ3's energy drain is purely in the activation. But once you've actually gotten into the form, it needs practically nothing, like Grade 4, to sustain itself? That's a much more interesting way of looking at it.
Rather than, "I'm low on Ki, I've got one or two shots in SSJ3 if I change now," it's "Shit, I've burned too much energy, I can't even get to SSJ3 anymore."
That's a very neat way of looking at it
I got a better idea: 🐉 make a wish, make super saiyan 3 negative effects be removed. Lol 😅
It’s a better Idea to start immediately at ssj3 if you’re gonna use it cuz at the beginning of the fight you have the most energy
I guess Masako X gave a perfect solution to the SSJ3 problem. Simply making its attacks more Ki based rather than physical can be a great way to use it more efficiently.
Sure it will drain its power quicker, but atleast he can capitalize on the power boost to dominate the match early on. Once the power is drained enough to the point that form becomes non sustainable, Goku can use his physical prowess to gain back the lost power.
The same can be done for the SS1 phase 3 muscle form. If these forms didn't take so long to switch into anyway. Works for Roshi and other big bads, so it was an odd stand out with the speed issues.
@@robinthrush9672 I think the point was that grade 3 didn't actually increase your ki efficiency, but instead just muscle density. Ironically one of the worst forms also happens to be one of the best narratively lmao.
@@robinthrush9672 Fun fact: in the fan-made comic Dragon Ball Multiverse, one of the versions of Future Trunks learns how to switch between Super Saiyan and SS Grade 3 _very_ quickly. He fights using regular SS because it's faster; but switches to Grade 3 the instant before his hits connect, to benefit from the extra strength without losing much speed.
Nah, that description would make the form even less efficient. A way to keep the SS3 is having it as a finisher. Have Goku fight as a Super Saiyan (phase 1 or 2), do combos with that form and then transform into phase 3 to do a super finisher move (either a Kamehameha or a striking combo).
@@martinaguiluz4063 Something like in the Hirudegarn Movie, SSJ3 being a form only to be used if you can end the battle quickly.
Or if you've got a handful of Senzu.
This just reminds me how weak the original saiyans really are. compared to alot of other races. Nail couldve been the king of the saiyans and Gero could've taken over frieza's whole organization with androids.
I mean, Gero's androids were super strong because he got the dna and stuff of the saiyans so uhh...
@@jums8224 cell was the only one that used their dna. I ment like android 13 thru 20 (himself) they were all super saiyan level and above.
@@blackomega2526 well gero still used info he got from spying the saiyans
@@jums8224 true. crazy to think that all of that from.vegeta and goku fight until the androids was only 3 years. and android 17 and 18 apparently had a hacked growth mode or something because they grew as strong as the saiyans with light work at best.
infinite energy or not they still did not train or have battles like everyone else.
Nah, Raditz was surprised that somebody was givin him trouble, so it safe to assume that it was unfortunate coincidences that powerful people started coming around...
Ssg and ssj2 will always look the coolest the lightning in ssj2 looks badass and I love how ssg is skinny and not bulky
facts
Same here and including the ssj4 it looks way dope
I don’t like ssj2 as much since they were lazy with the design, the spikier hair should’ve been like that with ssj1 imo. And yea I also like ssj god, although I think it should be renamed to saiyan god
Nah, it should just be ssj and ss god. Broly should have kept tail and get ssj4 design with power lvl of ssj2 or 3. Maybe another evolution in the line to compete with ss god
I agree.
SSJ3 is my favorite. It's the one I got hyped for the most and I still do when I rewatch ssj3 moments.
Same but being older and wiser now, the fact that it drains so much energy and achieved no wins rubbed me the wrong way, I love ssj4 the most because of how it was discovered…the gold ozaru surprise then the stabilization of the power was the second best in the series behind the first ssj transformation we saw
@@YoungTCash spitting facts, SS4 was incredible. I really hope super rewrites GT into cannon, with SS4 being their top transformation.
The problem with SS3 is that it came out of nowhere and was a completely unearned powerup, which is a cardinal sin as far as I’m concerned when it comes to Dragonball.
super-saiyan 2 has to be my favorite looks wise, it’s just so badass and clean, slickest form besides ultra-instinct
Ultra instinct isn't a form
@@senior.toucan6370 yeah, UI is a technique and a transformation. When goku has the white hair, that’s the transformation, but when his hair is still black that’s the technique. (I think)
@@nonghole4870 Silver but yea
@@senior.toucan6370 Ultra instinct is a form but it isn’t a saiyan form
@@nonghole4870 omen is still a form (I think) but now we know that he can use UI as purely a technique.
Imagine seeing two Ozaru’s stomping shit in the ToP
3
Well, vegeta likely still knew how to do that moon energy thing from when he had a tail. So, if some random tailed Saiyan coukd have been in u7 team, that would be interesting.
Assuming, Vegeta would bother to agree to it. We know how he can be.
There's no moon on the arena
@@AEAE- Vegeta could make one
UI OZARU
In my personal opinion I feel like the forms with the biggest flaws are SSJ3, SSB and SSJ Grade 3 due to the rapid ki drain, stamina drain, and degraded speed from both respectively while the forms that are almost perfect for usage would be SSG and SSJ4 because SSG is basically and literally the base state of the Godly forms so there’s no ki drain, slower speed, stamina drain, etc while SSJ4 it’s basically the same as SSG when it comes to no downsides while using them if they wanted to they could literally be in SSG and SSJ4 all the time if they wanted to
At least Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan God does show some history and the lore.
@@dmitribrutus5543 That’s what I’m saying Oozaru and SSJ does too as it’s the whole reason behind every other form because every form is an offshoot of SSJ same way that Golden Oozaru and SSJ4 is an offshoot of the Oozaru beach of transformations and SSB too kinda as well as it’s the next step into the Godly realm
I kinda wish Goku mastered ssj3
@@jfoolywitatooly29 Oozaru and SSJ line is definitely made Saiyans more unique. Although I do wished they could’ve expanded the Super Saiyan God form more than introducing the Blue form.
Seeing how anime and the movie, Super Saiyan God has many different abilities that was never explained.
Ssj3 and Blue don't decrease your speed they just have high stamina drain, which isn't an issue for Blue after the U6 arc. Ki is directly related to stamina. It's not that SSJ4 or God don't have Ki drain or don't take a toll on the body, it's just they are more refined forms. If that were the case he would be able to maintain the respective forms until knocked unconscious, which we know isn't the case. Ssj grade 3 is the only form that decreases speed.
I think it'd be neat if someone like Gohan focused more on SSG than SSGB, maybe learning some fancy god-powers like Healing, maybe Defusing, Ki Manipulation (like what Goku did to Broly to slow him down)
The real reason why Super Saiyan 2 and 3 aren’t often used is because the Saiyans are holding back, and if they aren’t, they literally just skip to Super Saiyan Blue.
here's how I would want it to be:
Ssj should just be for the start of the fight, ssj2 to warm up, god for serious time, and blue as a last resort.
I don't understand why they don't just use 2. It's a complete upgrade over 1, there is literally no reason to not use it.
@@MrFusion yeah, i know, and that's why it's one of my most favourite transformations below super saiyan 3 thanks to gohan as well, since it literally just a remastered version of super saiyan, and to see that it's not being used as often for literally no reason, really makes me grumpy.
Should've been Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God like the poster before said.
@@MrFusion they have more control in ssj1 u need rage to acces most saiyan transformation or l atleast to trigger them until u get the god forms that’s when u have calm down and hold your ki inside your own body
They really should have focused on quality over quantity. Now, there's just too much with too little substance
Yeah, there is too much focus on transformations. If they made each form have nuance and drawbacks from the start, they wouldn't all feel the same
Yeah, I wish they explored SSJ god and actually made it.... More divine.. Instead it was just an insane physical stats boost..
Exactly man! I don’t get why they didn’t make more unique forms instead of 15 different color changes lol
@@Jaydavid25. Im on the same boat. They seem to be attempting to remedy that with the DBS broly movie having goku pull out a technique using his godly ki to ensnare and trap opponents, but it still just seemed to be another hair color change form for both goku and vegeta to utilize instead of actually using godly techniques and abilities. Hopefully, the future movies and the next season of DBS fix this, at least with their adaptation of the moro arc
@@Jaydavid25. It is more than just a strength boost. It has healing properties.
I really liked what DB Multiverse did with Grade 3, where Trunks used it in short bursts as a compensation for not reaching SSJ2.
It wasn't that he didn't even reach ssj2 homie didn't even master ssj. Ssj grade 4 has the power of grade 3 but not limiting the speed and doesn't consume a crap ton of power
SSj2 being pretty much deprecated is the most saddening thing about the transformations to me. It was a straight-up upgrade from normal Super Saiyan and doesn't have the SSj3 energy draining downside, or any movement speed penalty, etc.
DBS ruined ssj2. Wayy too many corny transformations with power scaling all over the place.
@@POPJack1717 funny how you say that when ssj2 and ssj3 are used quite a bit in the dbs manga
i’d go as far to say that the dbs manga gives nearly every transformation justice, from trunks refining his super saiyan 2 all the way to the level of goku’s super saiyan 3 to goku using ssj3 loads with it actually getting a few wins(i think toyo likes ssj3)
Excellent. SSJ4 is already perfect and thus was not included in "EVERY".
It isn't perfect lmao
@@burnttoast.2017 cope
@@LughSamildanach you are coping lmao. None of the ssj forms are perfect and ssj4 is no different.
@@burnttoast.2017 seethe
@@LughSamildanach what's gonna be the third one word response
I really do love SSJ3. I wish they would have spent more time on trying to perfect it, but at the same time, I think it’s dropped because of the time it takes to draw
Vegeta can't even go super saiyan 3, ur actually so dumb cause u think that and now trynna "argument" that he can HAHAHAHA 😂😂😂😂
@@arian6565 what?
@@DWoods0892 tf is he talking about
@@arian6565 what
@@arian6565 Your high
Edit: People seem to think I'm summing up Blue to its strength? I'm talking about narratively and visually. Visually, God looked so much better. Narratively, Blue came out of nowhere and accomplished nothing. I could care less about how strong it is. Besides, I think it's oversaturated and we see it everywhere. If we stuck with God, it could be justifiable to see more Super Saiyan 1, 2, and 3, and have God be a trump card which requires Goku and Vegeta to be calm and collected. Not to mention they already retconned so many cool things about it, like its healing properties and invisible God ki. But no, what we got was Goku and Vegeta only using Super Saiyan as a warm-up, and Blue every chance they got. There's not even a clear stamina drain like people say. They use Blue so much, I never got the impression the transformation was taxing, like SS3.
Blue's honestly the worst. It came out of nowhere, and visually, is just a reskin of Super Saiyan. It doesn't even have a unique aura.
They should have stuck with God. The hair didn't spike and the aura looked like a flame. It made Goku look younger and skinnier, and visually and narratively, was different. It was the power of the Gods. Not to mention, it was unique how God was about being calm and controlling your Ki.
Blue is just, more screaming and raging while just being Super Saiyan, but blue.
Nahh that aint it
Nah youre wrong
Blue is useless gets bet by everyone
@@shido_rimru_ lol you do know that’s not how it works 😂😂
I agree with all expect the unique aura thing its aura when transforming literally breaks of Gokus silhouette and is literally blue fire.
It would be interesting to see an Oozaru form return but obviously buffed, like a super oozaru where they have insane power but the drawback is they lose control.
Broly's Okari form is that its the power of the ooaru while still keeping a normal body form
GT Gogeta Be like: so basically I'm monky
Monke**
Monke
Super Saiyan 3 aka *The Raditz*
Edit: Also, Super Saiyan 4 is the best looking transformation. And I will die on that hill. Anyone who has that just gets that *DRIP*.
Actually given what Heroes has done with the form it could be the most powerful as well as with Limits Broken there's no end to the power one can attain in SSJ4.
@@Webshooters1 I want to see more done with the form. Whether it be in What Ifs or not.
I like the look of Ultra Instinct way more than SSJ4
@@kylewest4044 Fair. But Omen looks better than Mastered.
@@arcanechaos3147 facts. Omen also feels better than Mastered. I do like the ssj4 design better though but to which their own
Ssj is the weakest but ss3 lacks when it comes to a longer fight. So the real question is.... get your ass beat more that usual or win a fight but have to reboot like an old computer.
Actually Ikari/Oozaru would be the weakest saiyan transformation in terms of multipliers
"There's nothing wrong about Great Ape form except making it a humanoid form."
SS4: "Am I joke to you?"
It's ok, SSJ4 is already perfect.
Yeahhhh!
Furry
Ssj4 is the most overrated thing in all of dragon ball period it shares almost every problem with ssjblue don't believe me?
Both show up with no build up goku just looks at earth and goes golden great ape and after that boom ssj4 it was a literal ass pull with no build up
Almost useless yep the only main villain it killed was baby it failed to beat super 17 and shin shenron and no the random jobber black dragons don't count as "main villains"
Needs tons of asspull power up's? Yep it need to be healed vs baby and gets a bullshit power boost and fusion vs shin shenron and still doesn't get the job done
The only reason people like it is because it looks cool but personally the design gets boring considering its shoved into almost every db media in existence if ssj4 was just ssj with purple hair or something then nobody would care
@@loafofbread5251 every form in super is overrated lets not forget it retconned vegito because the writers were to lazy to write themselves out of it and introduced something similar to midiclorians also this dude in the video uses alot of head canon to cover supers terrible writing
@@loafofbread5251 you also complain about power boost asspulls when literally all of db media has asspulls super being the worst culprit
I hate the form when people get their shirt destroyed and get strong
So not SSJ2, SSJ3, SSG, SSR, SSRage and Wrathful?
Ssj4,ui and mui
@@Funtime_x They lose their shirts in SSJ4 and MUI but UI Sign yeah.
Man thats the best form u just hatin on the best form
And super broly ssjg
SSJ3 has always been my favorite transformation
Fr
SSG needs more screen time. The way Goku and Vegeta use it in the Broly movie was amazing. Also bring the form switch from red to blue to red in the anime
“I wonky wanna talk about things from the original manga, Soup” -this vid near the end
Ssj2 for everyone except for Teen Gohan. It was kinda bad afterwards. Cell Saga Gohan makes it so amazing.
super saiyan god looks so cool, blue looks a little too generic
The hair color yea, but the aura is one of the greatest. Which makes the form unique.
You think blue looks generic but God that only changes their normal hair and eye color red does not?
@@robertm6590 super saiyan god doesn’t just change hair and eye colour, it changes the entire physique to be more slender and skinny which is probs the most change you can see in any saiyan transformation so yes blue is a bit generic compared to ssg
@@robertm6590 it makes you very thin just like most gods in the series and has a really cool fire aura and exclusive abilities like healing and god bind
@@Yuki-qh9kg i think god bind has to do with god ki not ssg specifically, goku just did it again in mui and clapped moro.
I dont think adding forms are bad, i think that when you add too many forms too fast then a lot of them instantly become obsolete. I mean SSJ2 was introduced at the end of the Cell Saga and then at the beginning/middle of the Buu Saga SSJ3 was already released. Like they gave it ZERO time to shine as the new powerful form that everyone wants to achieve
yeah.
God should've stayed at goku and vegeta's peak forms till maybe the end of the goku black arc where they achieve blue, and then goku could achieve UI omen but still have blue as his max form till the moro arc where he can go UI omen willingly but it takes alot out of him, then then the granolah arc can give us true UI.
honestly you can kinda say the same about super saiyan it's not as bad but it had a very weird run post frieza where it gets immediately outshined by man made cyborgs. However I agree that they didnt explore the form enough, the gang got to try and perfect the first stage but you dont see it at all for SS2
@@Gensolink nah they gave SSJ pretty much the entire Android/Cell Saga time to shine, not to mention Vegeta always hinted at the legend of a super saiyan
But SSJ2 probably had like a combined 5 episodes of being the most powerful new form
@@ProjektTaku SSJ2 and SSJ God they were way to quick to move on from. I think another thing that plays into it is that the SSJ3 and SSJB forms were achieved by off screen training and it didn’t really earn itself as the do or die needed in the moment power boost like SSJ, SSJ2, MUI, etc did
@@CaptainProx yeah, and they didn't do much either.
Ssj3 never got a W and neither did blue, not even in there debut. Removing super saiyan 3 just makes the buu saga a much cleaner story and removing blue just increases the the use of god and makes freeza's power up slightly less ridiculous.
The reason why people love super saiyan 4, so much is that it was the final power up for all of gt.
I think the Golden Ozaru is a good way to make it useful. Combine Super Saiyan with Ozaru. That's immediately a 500x boost, making it stronger than Super Saiyan 3. Combine it with other forms of Super Saiyan, like 2 making the hair all spiky, 3 having that hair, God Ozaru getting red fur, that kind of stuff.
I completely agree, but imo make the change from regular to Super Ozaru be more subtle rather than full on Golden Fur so it can also act as a way to get your opponent off their guard thinking it's such a regular Great Ape
Well that is way too op but U FORGOT THE WEAKNESSES SSJ3 WOULD DRAIN EVEN MORE ENERGY GOKU WOULD BE WAY SLOWER AND DID U FORGET THAT HE CANT CONTROL HIS GREAT APE FORM??!! IMAGINE IF HE STILL HAD THE GREAT APE IN DBS AND HE LOOKED AT A FULL MOON AND TURN INTO A GREAT APE THEN TRANSFORM INTO A SSJB OOZARU HE WOULD DESTROY THE EARTH
Imagine god ki with it?
@@ionelpetrea7594 vegeta could control his ozaru at least tho so he could be the one to unlock it
@@ionelpetrea7594 nah he'd destroy the universe
Let’s be honest here: SSJ got hella nerfed in super and needs to make a comeback. Keep in mind that SSJ Goku was folding full power final form frieza and Blueku was weaker than golden frieza without full power on.
Everyone just got stronger
Surely you must be trolling
Golden Frieza is in fact faster thank goku. Frieza’s new found power was actually a lot greater than goku’s in resurrection F but he couldn’t maintain it long and eventually lost the endurance battle. After that goku got stronger than Frieza since the next time they’ll meet he would have already mastered Ultra Instinct
I’m not saying SSJ isn’t dope, it is but let’s not get delusional😂 SSJ 1 thanks to toriyama lost it’s grandeur all about Blue, UI, and Destruction powers for the next few arcs after super (Read the manga) so better buckle up for Prince of Destruction Vegeta and SSJGSS + ULTRA instinct. I’d love for SSJ to get some love but thanks to Moro arc theirs just no way
@@evnvader1337 yea, I just wish people don’t act like it’s weak and Battle of gods “mere super sayain” quote is probably the reason. If Super sayain just so happened to be slightly more relevant I’d be happy
@@Killmerightnow You might just be right, When I heard that line I got bummed out because I still think gold is much better than Red or Blue, Besides my favorite form has always been SSJ3 anyway so yeah if anyone wanted to see Super Sayian come back, it’s me too!
But we all know the best one is... SUPER SALAD GOD
Purple hair!
YESSSSSSS
So true lol
Agreed lol
The most powerful form of all
If you want to get technical with the appearance of SSJ Grade 3 in Super. Yes Caulifla uses it but Trunks uses it again against Vegeta though only to bait him into an attack which works. Trunks didn't use it to fight but he still did go SSJ Grade 3 in DBS.
Love how this devolved to just Vegeta and Goku.
Thats kind of my problem with the show/manga now.
They're pretty much the purest Saiyan's in the story now. Some of the others have moved on and have a life beyond fighting. The rest of the others just can't keep up anymore. Goku and Vegeta are always training so they get the best results.
I know but kinda get boring only the same 2 characters all over again while exist other characters who could be developed
@@Eric-py8yy Agreed. At this point it would be better if they did some sort of spin-off focusing on someone else that we've seen or someone new instead of focusing on the exact same 2 characters we've seen for the last 10+ years. Although, I highly doubt that they ever will. I'm surprised that the franchise is still relevant to this day considering that they've been following the exact same formula for a while now.
@@luisn.pietanesi255 The next movie will be about Gohan and Piccolo, while Goku and Vegeta are out in another planet (at least it's what i heard of). Maybe, if the movie is a success they'll keep doing side stories with other characters.
I find all the evolutions in dbs just too gimmicky
This should be top comment
I hate how every time Goku and Vegeta get stronger, some new villain automatically matches them. Can’t they beat the crap out of the new villains once in a while?
@@ErenYeager-oi6hu Nah, thats the cures of shonen, mangaka think thats entertaining and sometimes it is if done right.
But dragonball literally introduces a stronger villain every arc after gaining a new form.
Goku beats king pickle, raditz shows up.
Goku learns Kioken and beats nappa, Vegeta was stronger than Kioken by going grape ape.
Goku got a big boy zenkai boost, Frieza was still stronger, Goku learned SSJ1, the androids show up., he learns SSJ1 grade 4, perfect cell was stronger.
Gohan Learns SSJ2, SUPER PERFECT CELL was slightly stronger cuz technicallty he was SSJ2 since he had lightning in his aura.
Daibura shows up and is on par with SSJ2, beat him, Buu shows up and wrecks it all.
Goku learned SSJ3 and was stronger than Fat/good Buu, Super Buu shows up and Goku actually states he can't take super buu on.
Gohan turns ultimate/mystic, Buu absorbs pickle and gotenks and becomes stronger.
Vegito shows up, is stronger than buu period.
BEERUS SHOWS UP.
and it goes on and on.
infact blue was already dog water when Frieza revived because the reason they won, was because golden form was draining but Frieza was actually outright stronger than SSJBlue Goku in that movie.
Dragonball is about split second powers ups dwarfed by the very next enemy to be dwarfed by a new power up that begins the cycle again.
@@ErenYeager-oi6hu all the top enemies were annihilated and most of frieza’s army. If they were weak they wouldn’t ve a main villain to begin with
@@ErenYeager-oi6hu congrats, you just realized what dragon ball is🗿 lol
I feel like SS god when it was introduced was the “strongest from”. It felt like Goku could go toe to toe with Berus. Where everyone can fight up to bar with blue
Ik ssj blue is supposed to be stronger than ssj god but i feel as id blue is just for endurance
I think the ritual version of ssj god is stronger than the normal one
@@Craigebussan I like this
@Holy Chicken Do God and Blue have official multipliers now?
@Holy Chicken beerus said that in the movie which isn’t canon, the arc in super corrects this
Isn’t the whole downside of SS3 due to him never using it with a mortal body prior so his body had never adapted to it (similar to how Golden Freiza was beaten the first time)
I feel like people keep forgetting about gods healing we saw it in the battle of gods movie
And never seen again
Only happened once
0:19 "so goku....... and vegata as well"
Sums up the entirety of the series.
gohan when he's mad..
*vegata*
I have a way to fix SSJ grade 3: use SSJ grade 1 or 2 to quickly grab or stun the opponent, and then switch to Grade 3 to smash them while they're immobilised
If the villain too strong for ssj 1 or 2 to even land a punch aka Buu
SSJ grade 3 should greatly improve defense.
Well this would still be incredibly flawed because grade 4 is just as strong as or stronger then grade 3 and faster then grade 1 or 2
trunks does something similar to vegeta when they're sparring in the goku black arc
Sounds like you play Xenoverse 2 then! 😆
I don't like when the transformations come out with the excuse of "I trained a lot" (*Ahem Ahem* SSJ 3 and SSGSS) I like it more when they appear in an emotional or tense moment, no matter how forced it may be.
3 wasn't merely "I trained". It was "I was dead for like 7 years and spent all that time training in a body that had no stamina to drain, allowing for 7 years of straight training with minimal breaks". There was a MASSIVE time gap between Cell Games and the Buu Saga. It didn't just come out of nowhere like Blue did before the anime decided to show some of the training that went into it.
4 needs to be made cannon. It's the perfect final form imo cause it's mixing ape form with humanoid and just looks B.A. I hate the new just change color pallet for a new form crap.
Hair dyes are overpowered
not really.
Maybe it could be broly's form but idk about that.
Yeah God should have gone Down that route. Tails need to come back at least
I always loved ss3 this should have been a straight tank transformation. Should be a massive boost to all physical abilities speed and strength endurance and stamina at the cost of key consumption and hamper it was something like it draws off their life force so they can burn out too long in the transformation
Kaioken?
So, better Ultra Ego?
Technically ssj3 never had a single win in the whole canon
@@saalthorjrundelius1368 technically king kia wants his fucking planet back 😂
@@dbgoat4436 King Kia? You mean King Kai?
Practically, Grade 3 is the worst.
Narratively, Blue is the worst.
Nah ssj3 is, blue at least had a hint, a bad one but still, ssj3 had nothing
@@demarkus4566
Accually, blue had no hints to it's exhistance. The anime hinted at it's existence in episode 18, but the Ressurection F movie came out before episode 18.
@@transqueen true but The anime is the "canon" one, I still don't like blue or ssj3, blue should of been in the goku black arc instead of the friza arc, cause they could of got the idea to combine super sayain god and super sayain from goku black going rose, would of made more sense, why'll ssj3 wasn't needed at all, could of cut it out of the story.
@@demarkus4566
While I do understand that, I think that Blue is an exception due to the circumstances. As an example, let's look at the Marvel movies. Thanos had existed in comics for decades, but he was still hinted at in the movies. Because the movies are so different from the comics, we don't know what Thanos is like or what he will do. In Dragon Ball, blue had existed for months in the movie, but it was still hinted at in Super. Because the movie and the arc in Super are exactly the same, we know exactly what it it like and how it will be used. Thanos in comics and Thanos in movies are very different, while Blue in the movie and Blue in the anime are exactly the same.
@@transqueen true, I understand that, I only say the anime is canon cause it fits a bit better with the manga than the movie, but I see your point tho.
What’s crazy is the only two people on super that have progressed is Goku and Vegeta. Everyone else is just chilling in the background with no motivations anymore
I like to think ssj blue evolved is just perfected blue since vegeta was still able to go into it after getting beat up by jiren and defeating god of destruction toppo
For me Super Saiyan 2 actually is something I always wanted to see.. It looks badass especially with the lightning effects. As for Super Saiyan 3, it was actually a wasted transformation. I actually love seeing it. In SDBH (although most people call it non canon), I'm actually happy to know and see that Cumber pretty much just outright transforms to Super Saiyan 3 like it was a normal thing for him. Haha!
Would love see the God form again. Like it would be used first before going all out in Blue Form. 🤐
Cumber was ssj1 he has eyebrows. Just had long hair.
@@gokushkameha-ha-ha9344 no, you can see that he has no eyebrows.
Smth interesting, if there’s a “ki leak”, why doesnt he adapt ssj3 into god? Its probably ridiculously hard and he is focusing on UI but that power would be insane
That just would be 8x increase and problably he could stack kaioken easly so that would be worse than mui who is at least 10x ssb kaioken 20
@@GogolTheEnjoyer True, but that power gap could compare to MUI's lower tiers if he achieves a hypothetical 3 Evolution. Tho he probably wouldn't because Vegeta is the one who explored that
They don't want to animate all that hair again.
@@ohnoitsdead so much potential lost
SSB is SSJ with God ki so it could probably work
I love the fact that he uses the dokkan and legends art for the video. I like these arts.
I like how he didnt credit what beats he used because he is self centered
I think more combining techniques and forms would be cool. I love dragonball but I think sometimes instead of just unlocking new forms they should combine their new forms with older techniques to buff both
Vegeta and goku both trying to perfect their current forms respectively so they never have to use other forms:
:/
like with ssgss
for some reason ive formed an odd attachment to base god form.
That's probably because all of Goku's fights in base god are pretty epic? It's kind of like UI lite where he just becomes way more agile and dodges hits instead of tanking them. Contrary to the raw power fighting style of blue, base god is where Goku really goes full martial artist (even when it's introduced vs Beerus and they're having a slugfest, he creates a perfected counter midfight to limit the collateral damage) and that's probably what makes it so appealing.
@@sethb3090 yo facts, ssb is like the ssj2 of dbs, we have already seen the same style of fighting in dbz, but ssg is when goku goes skill mode and starts using actual martial arts and using his powers in creative ways like immobilisation, in ssb he just spams ki blasts and kamehameha its repetitive and annoying tbh
I like ssj4 the best, it was a cool looking form, and it was pretty powerful
We not gonna talk abt 1 view, 110 likes and 40 comments???
Indeed it is
No
No because this happens literally all the time and isn't worth acknowledging
Why? youtube has been doing this for a decade, this is nothing new nor interesting to talk about.
Actually in the manga right now, Goku does use SSG to boost up his power when he taps into ultra instinct (without turning into ultra instinct. He trained with whis to get that). It isn’t really more useful than it is in the anime but it’s a nice touch that Goku can use other forms to boost up ultra Instinct
💯 it’s gon get some love but these comments don’t care they’re arguing about ssj4 🤣
@MichaeL Letherman huh???? 😂you talking about the Battle of Gods Arc?? If so, what drugs are you using my guy??
@@Johnboi6969 You clearly don’t remember the foreshadowing in episode 5.
@@ErenYeager-oi6hu you clearly don’t understand that goku had ZERO access to ultra instinct until his training with whis and even then until after he’d perfected blue (in the manga)
@@MUIDYLANICE Do you understand what foreshadowing is? John Boi had no idea what MicheaL was talking about. I never said he actually used UI.
"it gives God a lot more use" one of the best out of context lines ever
6:35 i 100% agree with salad I feel like ssj3 could have been used more if Goku mastered it it wouldn’t be so bad
the god forms like i said feel very very unoriginal except-Sighn- jus sayin
Ok, furry.
@@GermanKinsmen you can’t blame him there not original in the slightest
Blue is the most uninspired, boring and poorly introduced form in the franchise, God I don't mind so much.
@@KaiserMattTygore927 to be honest everyones fine with god which were all glad about blue however... is depressing
Honestly after super sayian every form is unoriginal, at least with super they have introduced something new. Change my mind
I never understood the overwhelming hate with transformations in the series the only one that was really forced on us was ssjb and even then it was still used in an effective way.
My personal reason is that they built SSJ to be the pinnacle of being a Sayan for SOO LONG.
Something so rare it happens only every thousand years or so, only to become in the end of the series, a trash transformation literally every Sayan can easily attain by the time they reach middle school and failing to defeat man-made robots with.
Also there's just so many of them I can't even fathom the level they reach.
"Oh cool, he went from being unimaginably powerful to more unimaginably powerful I guess."
there is nothing, and I mean nothing, that ssjb did in cannon that ssjg couldn't.
It was not used effectively.
SSJ3 also came out of nowhere and wasn't explored properly. The plot device of using a transformation to advance the story is a good one, but when it's the only one they use, it grows stale. There are many other ways they could handle this, new techniques, new strategies, new characters.
Grade 3 was useful when trunks used it and when blue vegeta attacked him he made himself smaller to avoid and counter vegeta's attack
It's a one time use tho. It's not going to fool everyone and Vegeta most likely was thinking Trunks didn't learn anything and tried to punish him for his mistake. It wasn't expecting to be used that way at all lol
Super Sayan Grade 3 could've had a niche use for grappling tactics if switching was faster. Get in close with better speed, then break your enemy's joints with brute strength. Maybe there could've been a counter grade that valued speed over strength, so there would've been a whole new dimension of tactical stat shifting instead of straightforward upgrades.
9:24 super saiyan god also makes the user look younger and slim which could probably explain why it uses up less ki than blue
I don't think you fixed any form. You just listed ways the series did it and the one time you suggested an actual way to improve it was to remove the one thing that makes it unique.
3 was the last real ssj tranformation.
4 is son goku true form
God ki is a joke
To fix dragon ball transformations you pretty much have to rebuild how they work from the ground up. They're all identical in function, making goku's kung fu number go up. Ultra Instinct had something unique going for it but now the series is just making its unique features an invisible baseline for goku. Good jorb, writers.
Super Saiyan God is my favorite form. It looks the coolest easily
Ikr
I agree
Fr
I like it more then blue but I think super saiyan 4 is cooler
@@ginyuraiyuden1104 Today is a special dae
They didn’t use god mode nearly long enough. Even blue seems just good enough at this point. They should just walk around in blue form all the time like when they were preparing for cell lol
They should have never made super saiyan blue, it should just be super saiyan god (red) then ultra instincts
Too Bad
Yea SSG didn't last long enough
In manga super saiyan god was used a lot i liked that fact
At least they didn't disrespect SSJG like they did with blue. Blue was used for every minuscule fight and lost its appeal pretty much as soon as it was revealed. In the manga Blue was about power and control and SSJG was about speed mainly
SSG has become my favorite as of late, I just wish they added something else to the design beyond the red eyes and red hair, a bit of fur would make it stand out more.
SSJ3 has so much potential. I can see Goku mastering the form to it's full potential, maybe removing the energy draining downside.
Same way rose did in heroes, it gave him his eyebrows back lol