In Roman poet Juvenals Satires he describes a Roman senators wife named Eppia who fell in love with a gladiator. The gladiator was described as being very ugly and amongst his physical attributes was a huge "wen" upon his nose. Assuming "wen" is not a Latin or Greek word and is of english origin , locating early translations of Juvenals work might help narrow down the date of when "wen" may have been first used . Early translations date from the 17th century.
If goldfish reflects breeders' local culture, then goldfish names/terms are the symbols of that culture. Currently, there is no international standard on goldfish names/terms. Some people may feel inconvenient, however this actually opens a door to better read each country's culture. Goldfish "Wen" is an excellent example. This video records my research on "wen" from confusion, question, hypothesis, collaboration, validation, and to conclusion. I relentlessly trimmed my the original recording from 1 hour down to 20 minutes. It may still feel lengthy and researchy, but I hope this video brings a different perspective to your goldfish keeping. Please comment below your thoughts and suggestions. THANK YOU!
Scientific investigation! Well done, sir! FYI: I'm from Indiana, USA and have been keeping fish for forty years. "Wen" is the only term I've ever used...
Donald, great pleasure to meet you. Thank you for the feedback about “Wen”. Here’s my email: GoldfishCornerMail@gmail.com in case if you are interested in some collaboration or joint projects with the goldfish hobbyists from other countries.
I looked a little more into it. I think there is a chance this misunderstanding came from or was at least spread by Stuart Halliday (aka Quatermass), a wiki editor and fish enthusiast active on both Aquarium Wiki and Wikipedia during the early days. On the Aquarium wiki article, he claims the name comes from the shape of the character 文.
@@GoldfishCorner It's English. I'm not actually an expert or anything on fish. I also notice that on Wikipedia, the word "wen" didn't include quotes in earlier revisions. I think the quotes is what has caused a lot of confusion.
The Wikipedia article does not actually claim that the term "wen" comes from Chinese. It claims that it's *described* as *a* wen by Chinese aqauarists. As you show, the equivalent word in Chinese roughly means "cyst", and this is what the English word wen roughly means as well.
Akosi, Welcome to my club. Believe it or not Philippines hobbyists are my 2nd largest audience. Three factor may boost wen growth: protein-rich food (try >30% fish food) alternating with blood worms, natural sun lights, and frequent water changes.
Hi Lei , fantastic this video on the origin and history of goldfish, interesting information I didn't know many things. You did an excellent job as a professional image and editing professor! Your channel deserves a very large audience and I work dear friend ... keep it up. I watched the whole movie with pleasure. Greetings from Italy. Marco
Marco-Thank you for your encouraging comments. I’m actually going to pin it on top. Stay safe. I hope the 🦠 situation in 🇮🇹 starts to getting better soon. 🙏
九十年代初小学养金鱼的时候就看书读到过：龙种，文种，蛋种，草种的划分，文种的文到底是什么意思？看到中文网络的解释是这种金鱼在俯视下看起来像“文”字。 Could there be another hypothesis that the Australian goldfish community had a Chinese member who introduced the term and wen was used? I find lack of internet back then doesn’t mean it was not possible for a Chinese to introduce the term. Doesn’t mean to be Han or Chinese centric. Just a thought.
Thank you for sharing your thought. I talked to the Australian goldfish expert Merlin Cunliffe. He confirmed that he did not borrow the term of Wen from Chinese. In fact, there is an existing word “Wen” in old English, which means non harmful Cyst. So perfect word for headgrowth 头瘤
@@GoldfishCorner amazing. I just learned Wen recently and have been scratching my head on which Chinese character it is. Thanks for digging into this topic. It clears my confusion.
This was so interesting! I hadn't really thought of questioning why something was called that way and just accepted it. I actually only heard of wen recently too when I started getting into goldfish and encountered it on videos in RUclips 😊
I felt the same Consistency is Key!! I never once questioned the term "wen". He basically proves us that "wen" was a term made up by westerns just because the word sounds like Chinese!! LOL!! As embarrassing as it is, Mr. Lei is so polite and elegant that he doesn't make us western people feel like complete idiots!!
Very interesting! If wen is not a chinese term and is not commonly used in china, then that needs to be updated on the wikipedia page, especially since the page does not have a citation for that "fact"
@@GoldfishCorner IMO - I don't see why it should be changed on Wikipedia. The Chinese do describe it as as wen and so does most of the world by now. The article didn't say that the term originated in China, just merely said "described as wen by Chinese aquarist". Probably could add to Wikipedia but if not certain I wouldn't as the term for cyst is common in the English speaking world and though it may have been made popular by Australians, anyone could have easily coined it with that description.
hey Lei, this is a very interesting subject and awesome research about "Wen". Everything is perfect but I have one suggestion on Audio loudness. I used headset and when the "Question # with background music pop up, it kind of hurt my ears because your speech loudness was very low and music background loudness were very high. I do have an appreciation your work from engineering background and apply to your video. take care!
@@GoldfishCorner oh the content itself? Sort of yes, got a bit confusing but it appears that the origin of wen appears to be from all around the world?
I am a nativ german speaker, and i was wondering what wen means. It reminded me of the German word „Vene“ which literally means vein but is used often colloquially for varicose veins. maybe I have too much fantasy
@Goldfish Corner hi lei, I would like to try to help you. unfortunately i can't add you, i think you deactivated the option. The fancy gold fish are little accepted in Germany and Austria. Wen or double-tailed fin or celestial eye are regarded as unnatural or handicapped, some breeding forms are even against the animal protection law. a law from 2004 even banned the keeping of goldfish in fish tanks. however, this law has now been abolished.
@@gibelio371 Just added you to my FaceBook friends. Interestingly, the USA here has a similar movement. Search "PETA" group on Facebook, you will see more.
@@donaldcat definitely. I will make sure I will visit the 雷強acquarium when the pandemic goes away. What I heard is the famous place for watching goldfish is 香港海洋公园的金鱼馆, where they keep lots of traditional Chinese goldfish.
@@GoldfishCorner The Ocean Park Goldfish aquarium shows many species of goldfish and have detailed description on each of the species. 雷強 is more like a shop but they are among the earliest international goldfish sellers since 1955. If want to know the root of naming, it is very likely to gain insight from them.
In Roman poet Juvenals Satires he describes a Roman senators wife named Eppia who fell in love with a gladiator. The gladiator was described as being very ugly and amongst his physical attributes was a huge "wen" upon his nose. Assuming "wen" is not a Latin or Greek word and is of english origin , locating early translations of Juvenals work might help narrow down the date of when "wen" may have been first used . Early translations date from the 17th century.
Just pin 📌 your comment. Thank you for sharing this priceless info. Can you email more background info of “wen” etymology in Roman
WOW! This is really an eye opener. Thank you so much for your research and clear explanation. You really did a wonderful job...
Thank you for your kind words, made my effort worthwhile
Really interesting video! BTW, your English is excellent.
Thank you!!
If goldfish reflects breeders' local culture, then goldfish names/terms are the symbols of that culture. Currently, there is no international standard on goldfish names/terms. Some people may feel inconvenient, however this actually opens a door to better read each country's culture. Goldfish "Wen" is an excellent example. This video records my research on "wen" from confusion, question, hypothesis, collaboration, validation, and to conclusion. I relentlessly trimmed my the original recording from 1 hour down to 20 minutes. It may still feel lengthy and researchy, but I hope this video brings a different perspective to your goldfish keeping. Please comment below your thoughts and suggestions. THANK YOU!
I also struggle to keep videos short! I have my GF edit sometimes, so I don't talk forever. But your video was informative and did not seem too long.
Great video Lei! Love all the research and questions within yourself. Always learning. Always growing.
Thank you Jessica. I like your quote “always learning. Always growing”
Scientific investigation! Well done, sir! FYI: I'm from Indiana, USA and have been keeping fish for forty years. "Wen" is the only term I've ever used...
Donald, great pleasure to meet you. Thank you for the feedback about “Wen”. Here’s my email: GoldfishCornerMail@gmail.com in case if you are interested in some collaboration or joint projects with the goldfish hobbyists from other countries.
I looked a little more into it. I think there is a chance this misunderstanding came from or was at least spread by Stuart Halliday (aka Quatermass), a wiki editor and fish enthusiast active on both Aquarium Wiki and Wikipedia during the early days. On the Aquarium wiki article, he claims the name comes from the shape of the character 文.
What is your first language? I may your assistance in the future. Thanks
@@GoldfishCorner It's English. I'm not actually an expert or anything on fish.
I also notice that on Wikipedia, the word "wen" didn't include quotes in earlier revisions. I think the quotes is what has caused a lot of confusion.
Love this video!!!
Thanks
The Wikipedia article does not actually claim that the term "wen" comes from Chinese. It claims that it's *described* as *a* wen by Chinese aqauarists. As you show, the equivalent word in Chinese roughly means "cyst", and this is what the English word wen roughly means as well.
Do you speak in Chinese?
@@GoldfishCorner No, but I know some Hanja (Chinese characters used in Korean).
I appreciate the detective work
curiosity drives my research. Thanks
Sir, im from philippines, may i ask how can i boost the WEN growth of my goldfish? Thank you sir
Akosi, Welcome to my club. Believe it or not Philippines hobbyists are my 2nd largest audience. Three factor may boost wen growth: protein-rich food (try >30% fish food) alternating with blood worms, natural sun lights, and frequent water changes.
Here is my instruction video on how to boost wen growth ruclips.net/video/mL3JHNrMBF8/видео.html
Hi Lei , fantastic this video on the origin and history of goldfish, interesting information I didn't know many things. You did an excellent job as a professional image and editing professor! Your channel deserves a very large audience and I work dear friend ... keep it up. I watched the whole movie with pleasure.
Greetings from Italy.
Marco
Marco-Thank you for your encouraging comments. I’m actually going to pin it on top. Stay safe. I hope the 🦠 situation in 🇮🇹 starts to getting better soon. 🙏
@@GoldfishCorner Lei, thank you my friend! Yes now the situations is not good in Italy.
Marco Isidori I will acknowledge your support in my next video. Please pay attention and let me know when you see it 😄
WEN'S WORLD, WEN'S WORLD! PARTY TIME, EXCELLENT! 🐟🎸
Thanks
Considered Cantonese? 雲
It could be one of the hypothesis but need to be verified
Hello from Lviv
👋
Thank you
Very interesting
You are welcome
One further question: where is 文种 in Chinese goldfish categorization from? Borrowed from old English? Just kidding.
九十年代初小学养金鱼的时候就看书读到过：龙种，文种，蛋种，草种的划分，文种的文到底是什么意思？看到中文网络的解释是这种金鱼在俯视下看起来像“文”字。
Could there be another hypothesis that the Australian goldfish community had a Chinese member who introduced the term and wen was used? I find lack of internet back then doesn’t mean it was not possible for a Chinese to introduce the term. Doesn’t mean to be Han or Chinese centric. Just a thought.
这个文种的文和国外指头瘤的Wen是巧合，仅仅发音相同。没什么联系。我刚来美国是也是搞混了，后做了一些研究，才得到我在视频中的结论
Thank you for sharing your thought. I talked to the Australian goldfish expert Merlin Cunliffe. He confirmed that he did not borrow the term of Wen from Chinese. In fact, there is an existing word “Wen” in old English, which means non harmful Cyst. So perfect word for headgrowth 头瘤
@@GoldfishCorner amazing. I just learned Wen recently and have been scratching my head on which Chinese character it is. Thanks for digging into this topic. It clears my confusion.
@@dahoo-needledrop appreciate your open mindedness
This was so interesting! I hadn't really thought of questioning why something was called that way and just accepted it. I actually only heard of wen recently too when I started getting into goldfish and encountered it on videos in RUclips 😊
Thank you, my friend. Same here. I only heard of using Wen as head growth when I moved in US.
I felt the same Consistency is Key!! I never once questioned the term "wen". He basically proves us that "wen" was a term made up by westerns just because the word sounds like Chinese!! LOL!! As embarrassing as it is, Mr. Lei is so polite and elegant that he doesn't make us western people feel like complete idiots!!
awesome video dude....we have some pretty cool goldfish from an an awesome LFS tour coming up Friday you will probably like....
Thanks. I look forward to it!
Very nice.
Thank you!
Very interesting! If wen is not a chinese term and is not commonly used in china, then that needs to be updated on the wikipedia page, especially since the page does not have a citation for that "fact"
Yes, Juliet. We should 've corrected it.
@@GoldfishCorner IMO - I don't see why it should be changed on Wikipedia. The Chinese do describe it as as wen and so does most of the world by now. The article didn't say that the term originated in China, just merely said "described as wen by Chinese aquarist". Probably could add to Wikipedia but if not certain I wouldn't as the term for cyst is common in the English speaking world and though it may have been made popular by Australians, anyone could have easily coined it with that description.
hey Lei, this is a very interesting subject and awesome research about "Wen". Everything is perfect but I have one suggestion on Audio loudness. I used headset and when the "Question # with background music pop up, it kind of hurt my ears because your speech loudness was very low and music background loudness were very high. I do have an appreciation your work from engineering background and apply to your video. take care!
Thank you my friend, *Kam*
I saw this for the first time and I had to find out what it was. Your video was top recommended 👌 and great stuff sir thank you
Appreciated your curiosity and open minded. Thanks
Maybe 'wen' refers to 丸, an object with ball shape, not sure just guess
That the beauty of goldfish culture. Everyone can have endless imagination. Isn’t it cool?
Very interesting topic. I am intrigued. Just set up my reminder for this premieres.
Appreciated it!
Thanks for sharing this information with us!
Thank you buddy for your consistent encouragement! 😊
I Like saying wen tho
best
World Aquarium Singapore Thank you my friend for watching from Singapore 🇸🇬
Thanks for the intro best video I’ve seen talking about a fish I know nothing about. It’s been nice been nice learning about it.
Glad you enjoyed it
You did a great job on this!!! Very well done!!!👍👍👍
NYGOLD Thank you Don for being the first in my Premiere and the encouragement! 👍
Mystery solved, great investigative skills.
Thank you my Friend 👍
I missed this live but glad for this re run..hope to join your next interesting topic!New friend here..connecting!
Thank you.what kind of goldfish do you have now?
@@GoldfishCorner 😁 not gold 🐟 fish
It's an interesting video, like! Good day!
Thank you!
We used the term Wen or Crown back in 1981 when I started fishkeeping.
which country are you referring to? Thanks
This was fantastic to watch Lei! I’m from Australia so it was a surprise to hear your findings. Keep up the videos they are great thank you.
Kasey Tomkins Thank you, Kasey for watching from Australia 🇦🇺. I heard that Merlin Culiffe still lives in Australia, 80+ years old.
Wow I wonder what state he lives in?!
Lei you can contact Merlin on Facebook. He’s an artist and has done some beautiful works of Goldfish! How wonderful our internet is hey?!?!!!
Your transition song is too loud in comparison to your voice sir
What about the content? Does it make sense to you?
@@GoldfishCorner oh the content itself? Sort of yes, got a bit confusing but it appears that the origin of wen appears to be from all around the world?
Awesome!....
Thank you Michael as always!
制作的好用心的视频，为中国传统金鱼的普及和发扬不遗余力👍👍赞
谢谢，欢迎在来坐坐 😀
大马粉丝路过
Underrated video! love this content!
Damita, appreciate your encouragement. Not many audience has the patience to watch the whole content, but you did. Thanks
I am a nativ german speaker, and i was wondering what wen means. It reminded me of the German word „Vene“ which literally means vein but is used often colloquially for varicose veins. maybe I have too much fantasy
Great! I may need you help study some goldfish related literatures in Germany 🇩🇪 Do you mind adding me to your Facebook? facebook.com/lei.wang.125323
Check out this page “dialectal German Wenne (“wen”)” from en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/wen
@Goldfish Corner hi lei, I would like to try to help you. unfortunately i can't add you, i think you deactivated the option. The fancy gold fish are little accepted in Germany and Austria. Wen or double-tailed fin or celestial eye are regarded as unnatural or handicapped, some breeding forms are even against the animal protection law. a law from 2004 even banned the keeping of goldfish in fish tanks. however, this law has now been abolished.
@@gibelio371 Just added you to my FaceBook friends. Interestingly, the USA here has a similar movement. Search "PETA" group on Facebook, you will see more.
Wow! Fascinating! Thank you.
Thank you Cynthia. Does my logic sound right? Let me know if you have any different opinion. 👍
纹
That is not right. "纹" is pronounced as "Wen", but it means stripes, which has nothing to do with headgrowth.
Thanks for the great info
Hi Reed. Thank you and feel free to share it with your friends 👍
Next, how to boost wen growth? 😭😁
Nothing secrets about this. Just feed them with high protein goldfish food (>30% protein contents)
Here is my instruction video on how to boost wen growth ruclips.net/video/mL3JHNrMBF8/видео.html
Interesting
Thanks
來自中國中文 ... 魚"雲" !
I never heard any Chinese breeders or hobbyists call it "雲" In fact, "雲" is pronounced as "Yun" not "Wen". In China, it called "头瘤"，“头长”。
@@GoldfishCorner cantonese
@@GoldfishCorner visit HK goldfish market, probably can discover more, especially 雷強aquarium， one of the oldest goldfish sellers in HK
@@donaldcat definitely. I will make sure I will visit the 雷強acquarium when the pandemic goes away. What I heard is the famous place for watching goldfish is 香港海洋公园的金鱼馆, where they keep lots of traditional Chinese goldfish.
@@GoldfishCorner The Ocean Park Goldfish aquarium shows many species of goldfish and have detailed description on each of the species. 雷強 is more like a shop but they are among the earliest international goldfish sellers since 1955. If want to know the root of naming, it is very likely to gain insight from them.
魚 "雲 " !
中文是我的母语，我小时候在中国养金鱼。从未听过中国鱼友叫“雲”。 “雲” 发音为 "Yun" not "Wen". 中国金鱼届通常叫“头瘤”，或者“头长””