Newton vs Leibniz (feat. Hannah Fry) - Objectivity 190
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- Опубликовано: 3 дек 2018
- Hannah Fry returns to The Royal Society to investigate one of the juiciest debates in the history of science! More links below ↓↓↓
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Featuring mathematician and broadcaster Hannah Fry speaking with Brady.
Check out Hannah's website: www.hannahfry.co.uk/
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Absolutely didn't come here just because of Hannah...
😉
Totally not *wink* *wink*
Of course not. Why would you?
Schnoz.
Simp community rising. Although I'm 2 yrs late...
Hannah and Kieth. One is a mathematician, the other a head librarian... Together they fight crime!
I love your user name.
Now that's a show I'd watch!
Newton did it : when he was master of the mint, he personally tracked down counterfeiters and send some of them to the gallows. Not really a friendly guy...
Id watch that
@@beachboardfan9544 I'd*
In both calculus and math history it was briefly mentioned that there was a controversy between Newton and Leibniz. I didn't know it involved a timeline of letters! Can you imagine a modern day version of this with a compilation of emails, tweets, texts, and saved instagram photos?
Video rants should maybe be added to the current list and who knows what the future will bring.
geniuses like this don't use instagram....
I like how they are super intellectual but then say "first inventor". How can you invent something more than one time, especially in such a close geographical and temporal scale?
@@brokentombot It's actually easier than it seems, when you consider that those discoveries were triggered by advancements in some other areas. Someone came up with some rough ideas, and a couple of geniuses independently thought that they can expand this.
@@Pharisaeus Sus. Pictures and proof please.
A) Could watch Hannah Fry all day. B) Gossip! C) A++ video.
I hope you're subscribed to The Curious Cases of Rutherford & Fry on BBC Radio 4. Lots of Hannah Fry goodness.
@@aksela6912 It's crazy. I find out so much new stuff every day and I still can't believe it. I only just found out about CGP Grey and Brady's podcast about a week ago. Sometimes the internet is just too full of awesome.
@@Lupiscanis2001 So you're a fellow Tim then? ;)
D) Those Latinized names look kickass.
@@aksela6912 I only know one definition of Tim from urban dictionary and 99% of it does not apply to me :p
Wow, she was giddy. Mathematics fan-girling at is fullest. 😁
newton is a superstar.
Ashmeed Mohammed Yeah, he played guitar in that band, Queen :-)
I would be too picking out a book at random here. Books of legends? Yes.
@@MrHeroicDemon McAfee didn't whack himself
Well, Hannah has definitely won my prestigious Science Communicator Crush 2018 Awards and the jury decision wasn't even close. So there.
mine as well...
Penny Lane only 2018?
mine too for a few years, thanks to Numberphile
My favorite Hannah Fry quote " I thought it was an integral, but it was just a curly F."
Leibniz invented the integral symbol : ∫ and also made calculus much "user friendly" than Newton's geometrical approach.
He also was more interested in the mathematical side of it rather than Newton who came to it via physics.
Anyway, both of them invented/discovered calculus at the same time via different ways.
Great video, thanks as always :)
Yet Newton gets all the credit
@@JafarChou If Leibniz couldn't figure out that space is not an order of things but what contains things, as Newton assumed and so does everyone else, there has to be a problem.
@@paulohara8967 Sounds like argumentum ad populum.
@@JafarChou Yes and no. Everyone that learns about calculus (or mathematical analysis, as we call it at my college) also learns about this dispute.
@Porco Rosso Genius :D
It should be corrected that at 4:30, it was not the first time someone integrated. Bonaventura Cavalieri had been integrated specific functions many years before Newton, and John Wallis in the generation before Newton had expanded the range of functions that integrals could be applied to. Newton (and Leibniz) were the first to join differentiation and integration together in a coherent comprehensive theory.
Should not forget about Alhazen.
Ferrusian Gambit interesting. I understand that Newton was the first to come with the idea of limits, it’s that but also questionable? The other point is finding the areas below a curve is not. The same as integration l: did this guys found a general approach ?
Or archimedes?
@@jaimeduncan6167 That's precisely the point, if your saying about Alhazen (who found the area under the Paraboloid using polynomials) this is just what archimedes did in the sense of finding areas and volumes of things.
But integration isnt just about areas and volumes!, its the inverse of differentiation.
Cavalieri like alhazen , could integrate x^n , cavalieri also came up with his wonderful principle.
I thought the big breakthrough Leibniz and Newton made was to prove that an integral is an anti derivative. I may be wrong but I’ve heard of Egyptians using infinitesimals in their calculations.
Hannah's enthusiasm is infectious, this is one of the best videos you've done Brady.
Wiki: "The calculus controversy (German: Prioritätsstreit, "priority dispute") was an argument between the mathematicians Isaac Newton and Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz over who had first invented calculus. The question was a major intellectual controversy, which began simmering in 1699 and broke out in full force in 1711. Leibniz had published his work first, but Newton's supporters accused Leibniz of plagiarizing Newton's unpublished ideas. Leibniz died in disfavor in 1716 after his patron, the Elector Georg Ludwig of Hanover, became King George I of Great Britain in 1714. The modern consensus is that both men developed their ideas independently."
Those are three people having a good time. Love it!
Leibniz: I've got it!
Netwon: Yeah? Well I loosened it up!
I always go for Leibniz on Calculus. The way we view calculus today is almost identical to how he viewed. His view is way more intuitive and also better to navigate. If you think Newton and Leibniz are equally important, try using his way of Calculus.
Touche'. And in fact for more than a century after Newton's death his notation (using a dot) was the one taught in the UK, while on the continent Leibniz's notation (using a "d") prevailed. As a result science stagnated in the UK while it progressed by leaps and bounds. Leibniz's system was adopted when some young upstart mathematicians argued for its superiority. Among them was young Charles Babbage who wrote a satirical essay about British mathematics "dot-age" as opposed to continental "d-ism."
Newton invented Calculus Liebniz saw it and improved upon it, exactly as they said in the video
@@johnhopkinson4054 Not to mention that Newton was only supported by England, while the rest of Europe backed Liebniz.
I totally love Hannah Fry.
Hannah is my favourite :)
This was a great Objectivity video Brady. I really enjoyed this one. 😍
Loved that last shot of Hannah's book. Keep up the good work Ojbectivity, Brady and all the others that make this kind of content possible for the world to see.
Sorry to say I am all for the German... you really can't beat that wig...
Newton used his own hair -- boo, hiss!
To me, Leibniz' hair gives him a similar look to Brian May, guitarist for Queen, and quite the scientist himself.
Believe in Leibnitz, He got cookies
Wigs > science
I'm sorry to say again it's Moyseh
I see Hannah, I hit the like. That's how I am.
SCHNOZ.
I really like the concept of this particular video; to invite someone that is familiar with the field that is the subject of the item or document featured. I feel like it brings a new depth that makes the video even more interesting. I would love to see more of this concept in the future with other experts.
Yay, Hannah! She's so magical! Her eyes...her excitement over this kind of stuff...!
Hannah is my favorite!! Could watch her go giddy all day!
Quahntasy - Animating Universe Lol,I see you everywhere
Another great video with a fantastic guest
This is such a fun one!
Commercium epistolicum means "exchange of letters", the word commerce comes from commercium (which in fact is a form of exchange) while epistula (letter) is the root of English words like epistulary (relative to letters).
Thanks, what would "exchange of ideas" be? Just curious.
Trying to sound smart via google.
I would say exchange of knowledge ref. the Greek word episteme (knowledge, science, understanding).
Thanks, Goryllo.
Thanks Hannah, i got excited as soon as i read the title of this video! Math passionados could never walk past such a find and not say something
4:30 He is not the first Hannah. That sketch looks exactly like one made by Fermat in around 1640. There were also Cavalieri, Descartes, Wallis, Roberval and others. Newtons contribution was to realize the common idea of calculus in all these various contribution including (though not the first) to prove the fundamental teorem of calculus.
barrow was first to prove fundamental theorem i believe
Cavalieri's principle is a generalization of Fubini's Theorem.
Choco Leibniz beats Fig Newton. End of.
This is the best example of how academic conflicts have real world consequenses
"Fig Newtons were named after a town in Massachusetts, not the scientist!"
@@peterfireflylund While Choco Leibniz is indeed named after Leibniz, because the factory is based at the town where Leibniz lived. Another reason why Leibniz beats Newton.
@@peterfireflylund I was just about to channel sheldon cooper hahaha
This was in a way funny and entertaining, but also informative. I enjoyed this!
i just love how excited they get over this stuff
This is interesting so I looked it up in some history books and it seems that Leibniz and Newton independently invented the same thing. However, Leibniz first developed integration and Newton differentiation. So they are both right and wrong at the same time.
Newton first used it in 1666 and Leibniz in 1675. The controversy is where Leibniz got inspired by letters he may have read from Newton during those nine years. But Leibniz developed the calculus further with a more approachable way than Newton, so both deserve credit.
I’ve seen someone say Newton set the seed and Leibniz watered it
Awesome fun vid... you three need to do more!! ...ty :)
I can't remember the last time I used Newton's notation for differentiation. It has been useless to me in studying differential geometry. Leibniz notation is much clearer when visualizing the geometry even if it's more to write.
How many fries could Hannah fry, fry
if Hannah fry could fry fries?
Frightfully many, on Friday.
Ha!
I love this
Objectivity dream team trio.
Absolutely fascinating and delightful.
Hannah is such a joy to watch.
📓📔✒️
Oh? I love these glimpses of historical moments/writings which feature science and maths. Also, I feel a deep sense of wonder and of awe when we are shown the original handwritten pages.
Wow, what a great video. The history......had to be amazing to be there. I could spend days there. Thanks for the video.
Keep up the splendid work Brady
"I think it belongs on one of these shelves...don't you?, where's the Newton section?" - Hannah Fry 2018
Good banter. The history of science is loads of fun.
Putting a book in the wrong section when Keith can see... RIP Hannah!
Can we have a whole series just with you three thank you please
Maybe it's jsut me but I found the way the head librian was speaking really soothing and calming. I could definitely listen to that guy a while
This was a lot of fun and I'm happy because I told someone about the Newton-Leibniz calculus kerfuffle a couple of weeks ago and seem to have got most of my facts right about it.
She is enchanting :)
she really is.
😍
The first humans doing integrals were Greeks. For example they sandwiched the area of circle between nr^2sin(π/n)cos(π/n)
#190 ... crazy. I remember when the first video came out and i thought how crazy it is that Brady makes yet another channel on top of all others not TOO long ago.
Here's a novel idea... why not give them both equal credit?
Why are we obsessed with crediting individuals for discoveries/inventions which included contributions/collaborations from others?
This.
Sir Edmund Hillary never wavered from the notion that he and Tenzing “summitted together.”
They both have equal credit in the discovery of Calculus, since they both arrived to the notion from a different perspective that is pretty much impossible to fake in such short amount of time, specially at the rate speed information spread at the time. Is just that the british are a tad jingoistic and think their s**t smells better, particularly when it comes to continental Europe.
But in an ironic twist of fate, we all use Leibniz notation for differential and integral calculus, simply because is far better than Newton's.
Yeah, I want credit for the Pythagorean Theorem.
Hannah is really fun. She makes a great teacher.
Neither Newton nor Leibniz deserve credit. Fermat had done slope of a line tangent to a curve (differential calculus). Cavalieri had done area under a curve (integral calculus). Gregory found that differentiation was the inverse of integration (fundamental theorem of calculus). All in the generation before Newton and Leibniz.
Yea, more Hannah. She's awesome.
Fascinating!
what a great video!
Hannah! subscribed instantly.
Amazing info!
Straight out of the 17th century!
Hi Hannah!! congrats on the engagement ☺️
My fav feud in history.
Wow what a great sweater, love the colors.
Perfect, Fry!
Putting Hannah's book on the shelf was hilarious. Also low key foundations of modern mathematics
6:06 That’s Leibniz finding the derivative of x^2
I had Codebreaker : Bletchley Park's Lost Heroes in the background this week. Suddenly I hear a distinctive voice I recognise. It was Keith! Talking about codebreaker Bill Tutte getting his Fellowship and signing the great book of autographs. He wore his hair a little shorter and more tidily combed back then!
I love how giddy and excited Hannah is at the start of the video! I would be too!
You can see Hannah is excited.. :)
Love Hannah!
Great video
Hannah really is delightful!
I am a classical mechanics nut. It is really interesting to see how simple things become complex and interesting.
Man, Objectivity #91 was almost exactly 100 videos ago. When you first started this channel my initial thought was, "Oh this is neat but he's gonna run out of stuff about fifty videos in and then what?". I don't know how much stuff is in the Royal Society library but *clearly* I underestimated its contents by an order of magnitude
We've barely scratched the surface!
I think "an order of magnitude" is an underestimate of several orders of magnitude...
@@peterfireflylund If Objectivity goes on for another 500,000 episodes, you'll find no complaint from me :D
please do an episode on controversy surrounding Einstein's work, plagarism etc
2:00 To be fair, not many (if any) people understood the subject as well as Newton, meaning he was the most qualified person to write the review.
Standing on the shoulders of the giants before you! I love maths!
That finale! Pretty cool her book got to rub shoulders with some of Newtons
I hope the royal society has stored a copy of Hannah's book and 400 years from now people will be discussing it
was thinking about the water-drop physics dude today and ya'lls' video on his book, when I came across this. Glad I did.
your beautiful videos are like post-it notes in my mind
damn! Another Brady channel I have to subscribe to... (I will never finish watching these videos!)
Hanna Fry on objectivity; this is surely the best of all possible worlds.
The Hello World audiobook is now available from US Amazon
"Hello World" is a great quick read; and if you enjoy her speaking -- the audiobook is also nice. +1
Thats so funny!!! Nicely done guys!!
Haha, I actually covered this in my comic. Thank you Brady and Keith for all the inspiration. ^_^
great content.
Have these documents been scanned and translated so they're available for the rest of us to look at? If not, could they be, please??
I hope so. Otherwise it should be top priority.
The librarian handling the book so softly and gently shows the importance of these valuable documents
If you want this topic in long form check out The Baroque Cycle
I kind of have a feeling we've not had a enough of the Leibniz story
God, how much I love Hannah Fry !
I'm nott to crazy for Fig Newtons myself.
Hannah made this video watchable, love her
4:29 The earliest integration is attributed to Archimedes in the Palimpsest called Stomachion
No, Archimedes' Stomachion is a fragment dealing somehow with a tangram-like puzzle. He did something recognizable to us as essentially integration in "On the Parabola."
Mathematics and I are not particularly tight, but who could resist seeing Dr Hannah Fry get excited over some juicy maths controversy?
Yes, the world does use Leibniz's notation for differentials, but the British often use Newton's [dot, double dots as opposed to deltas]. Certainly when I was at school in England 50 years ago we used Newton's notation for calculus.
damn that is old paper. those of us who have taken calc 1 have all heard the stories. it is really cool to see the real deal - the evidence that substantiates the story.
Though not a mathematician I remember reading an article re astronomy ,back in the late 1600s early 1700 s,in which the writer specifically states that the continental Liebniz notation is far easier to understand rather than fluxions as is Newton’s notation.
Did Hannah’s book win the “Leibnitz Prize” (ie 2nd place)?
It would be great to have a video going into detail tracing the problems Newton needed calculus for in order to solve.
This video has it all: An interesting backstory, excited presenters, witty banter and of course the obligatory 400 year old hot historical tea ready for spilling
No substance though. At some point those really intelligent people should say: "we just don't know".
Love these. Here's an interesting thought question which occurred to me while watching this one. We tend to say so-and-so "invented" such-and-such math. Since math describes the basics of the universe, would it be more correct to say they "Discovered" it?
Depends on your philosophical bent. Not many Physicists think that our math describes the universe directly; so they’d say that they had indeed invented a tool which can be used to model the universe.
It's still an open philosophical question. Platonicism vs. anti-realism
Cowboy Frank's Personal Videos nope maths is invented not discovered.
Dr. Fry just glanced at the figure at time 5:31, and thought that Leibniz was working on the area between two curves - but actually he is working out a cycloid using the circle. In fact, the word "cycloeidi" appears to the right of the point E.