Nietzsche & Schopenhauer: What Is Music? | Philosophy
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2024
- In this video I talk about Friedrich Nietzsche, Arthur Schopenhauer and their philosophical view on music!
#nietzsche #schopenhauer #philosophy #music
References:
Nietzsche's book: The Birth of Tragedy
Schopenhauer's book: The World as Will and Representation
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hi i was watching your video on jungs black books and I don’t know if you have his collected works or not but here is a link to his digital collected works 1-19 that I got off ebay that you can download to an epub reader or in my case ibooks on my ipad gofile.io/d/yVJhDY
"I have spent many days stringing and unstringing my instrument while the song I came to sing remains unsung".
- Tagore
Music is the rhythm of existence, the heart beat to the universe and the pulse to our souls.
When they talk about music being universally apropriate to any ocasion, image or feeling; I remember how the best films use music at its finest, its clear for me how good films/tv shows NEED good music.
I've thought for years now that the best scenes in virtually every movie is accompanied by great and appropriate music. Remove the music from those scenes and they fail to be "great".
I agree. But it seems Nietzsche would have considered film music in general to be a misuse of music. According to the video, if music is used to manipulate the listener, then you are destroying the very essence of music.
When I read this my first thought was about playing some random music at a funeral. Imagine being at a funeral and the song is ‘Selfie’.
Love the intro music
flickerrate.bandcamp.com/album/skylight-ep
I love your channel dude you seriously deserve a lot more recognition
Thanks, just always make sure to like, share it about or even donate to patron if you like, any little helps man! 🙏
It is the power of music to carry one directly into the mental state of the composer.listener has no choice.it is like hypnotism....
Ludwig van beethoven in "immortal beloved"
Greatest scene and one true explanation of music to me
Please, make more videos clearing out Schopenhauer's view on destiny and will 😇🙏
I have a lot of time for the comment about the 'poverty' of imitative music that seeks to merely compliment surface level aspects of a narrative. My next video (out in 3 weeks) is about exactly this.
Love your videos!
"Music is the answer to the mystery of life. The most profound of all the arts, It expresses the deepest thoughts of life."
- Schopenhauer
It expresses what words cannot, that's what its for...but they don't like it because of autistism, nationalism, copycats and regulations.. philosophy of music ?
@@adaptercrash what the hell are you going on about?!?!
Thanks for this, I’ve always wanted to hear more from those two on music. As someone familiar with advanced music theory, I can say they’re correct when they say the essence of music comes down to numbers and geometry.
this was good - not usually my cup of tea. But still a strong presentation. One note: the last name of the composer Richard Wagner is pronounced in English as it is in Germany.
Glad you liked it! Thanks for the correction 😊
10 minute onward. So much truth there.
Toward the end of his life, Nietzsche discarded most of the Apollinian in favor of the Dionysian. Also, in "Towards A Self of Criticism" (on the Birth of Tragedy), Nietzsche said that his first books smelled of Hegel and suffered from an excess of 'hope.' In a previous video essay where you cited "On the Tarantulas" you made a quote that incorporated Zarathustra's hope. Nietzsche's hope was that humanity would get over ressentiment: his word for revenge. But toward the end of his life (Will To Power writings), Nietzsche was for the acceleration of the placation of the mediocre, or great majority of peoples over the new, higher, savage(r) class of people he called the "new barbarians." In other words, if Nietzsche was disdainful of hope in mid-life, toward the end of his life hope became a farce for him. To even hope for the "new barbarians" would be misguided. These 'new barbarians' are coming anyway. A 'new barbarian' would be a tiny class of future warriors who were strong in morality precisely where the weaker people's were not. These people were 'blonde beasts' ('lions,' not white people) around the globe.
#accelerate
@Anders Anderson Lots to cover here. You have 5 paragraphs so I'll address one-by-one.
Paragraph 1
To me, acceleration is an observation, not a moral imperative to accelerate. Marxist acceleration hopes for a utopia: it believes that accelerating capitalism leads to its collapse and then there can be a utopia (so Marxist accelerationism does have a more imperative, but an odd one, since desiring the accelerationism of capitalism will lead precisely to the increased suffering of proletarians). Analytic accelerationism observes that acceleration is happening whether you want it to or not and that you can't stop it even if you wanted to. At most you can stunt it a little, but it will continue anyway. Analytic accelerationism, like Darwinian evolution, sees no end goal. Evolution all the way through; acceleration all the way through.
Paragraph 2
I've considered these questions quite a bit. For Schopenhauer, music is "a copy of the will itself" (World as Will and Representation, 257). Yet his strong statement is ultimately meaningless.
You write, "is music expressing the truth?"
No. Music is not an agent and does not express. People express. Or to put it the way philosopher Peter Kivy does in his book The Corded Shell: Reflections on Musical Expression, music does not express emotion, rather, music is expressive OF emotions. The example he gives is a picture of a Saint Bernard dog that appears to look sad (awww, the dog is so sad (and cute!)). Kivy says that the dog's face does not express sadness, but is expressive OF sadness. That's how he opens his book.
Then you go on to talk about the nature of music. I think we need a definition here, so I'll provide a standard one:
Music is humanly organized sound.
That means that whales and birds making sounds is not music; rather, they are sounds used to communicate in some way. Birds "sing" to communicate messages to other birds. Lions roar to scare off its enemies. These forms of communication are closer to language than to music, which as I have already spelled out, is humanly organized sound. If a bird "sings" then it is only because a human is taking pleasure in bird sounds, without care for what the bird is trying to communicate to another bird (This is my territory; Where are my chicks? I'm fertile and available; There's food in this part of the ocean; etc). We can complicate this basic definition of music spelled out by Blacking, Varese, and Cage, but I think it's a good starting point.
Paragraph 3
"Music appeared... before spoken language."
My answers to Paragraph 3 are partially already spelled out above. So which came first? Music or spoken language? My furthering of the basic definition of music, as humanly organized sound, is that music is about listening. Listening is not the same as hearing. While there can be no hard line as to where one starts and one ends, since both are interpretive, we can say generally that listening is more attentive and interpretive than mere hearing. Though I don't find it fruitful to ask which was the first instrument (drums? singing? the ear?) one thing we might speculate is that music and spoken language have very close roots: perhaps. Music and spoken language are imitative, but language is even more imitative because it is trying to communicate ideas by imitating those ideas and grafting them on to sounds: signifier (sound) and signified (idea). If music was used to communicate ideas -- for example, loud drums and blown horns to signal aggression toward a rival tribe (in the same manner as a roaring lion) -- then we can see an instance when music and language are working together. In any case, the basic answer to Paragraph 2 still stands: there is no music without humans to hear it. There are sounds that are used to communicate and express, but these sounds do not rise to the level of music. They might rise to the level of language, but I'll let someone else chirp in with an answer to that question.
Paragraph 4
You write: "Perhaps God is the Great Composer and everything is various vibrations on His cosmic musical scale."
This is not a good hypothetical at all. Let's go back to Pythagoras and then the 6th century Catholic senator, theologian, philosopher, and music theorist Boethius, who used Pythagoras' findings to bolster his belief in divinity. Pythagoras heard hammers of different weights clanging in succession at different intervals. He learned that the hammers had different weights, and that one hammer that weighed 3/2 of another hammer creative the interval of a perfect 5th. He used these measurements (2:1, 3:2, 4:3, etc) to construct a 7-note scale that we still use today. With this scale made of perfect ratios (without 'beats'), he claimed that their perfection represented the divine. Except that there was a mistake. The final note was NOT perfect, and so he called it a "comma" or a remainder. The Pythagorean Comma is in fact evidence of an imperfection: a divine mistake! Not necessarily with nature, but of constructing scales. Therefore Pythagoras and Boethius were completely wrong to recognize the divine in the construction of these scales. A piano, by definition, is completely out of tune because none of the intervals are perfect; rather, they are compromised or "tempered." Why do play pianos and guitars if they are divinely imperfect? Probably because to humans they sound "better" or at least offer more possibilities (like modulation to other pitch centers).
Paragraph 5
You write: "There is always hope. There is always room for improvement. But we should do it harmoniously."
Music is everything.
Music moves us physically and emotionally (watch a film with the sound off for a good example of this). Sight as a sense is the complete opposite, requiring stillness, which is why people stand in front of pictures and concentrate upon what they are looking at, to take in all the details. Sound is vibration, which shakes loose attention and tension as sight increases both (deliberate slowing down of motion and concentration upon seeing something).
damn man...you are GOOD ..this came in my recommendation which means you have beaten the youtube algorithm...you will burst soon dude...keep the good work going!!
I know! The channels blowing up at the moment 🎉
@@ThoughtsonThinking cheers!!
This is really interesting because it was numbers, geometry, and music (and the few other comparable things) that convinced me that God must exist, which eventually led me back to Christianity. It would seem absurd to think that inexplicably perfect systems like numbers, math, and music could come out of some kind of random event like the big bang (or, at the least, it would be statistically all but impossible), or even out of some kind of organic, naturally evolving planet that originated in some other way.
I cannot conceive of how things like numbers, music, etc. could have come into existence without having been (meticulously) "created" by the biggest super-genius of them all, God. Also, these objectively perfect 'phenomena' irrefutably exist. No one can deny that there can be 1 or 5 of something, that 2+2=4, that shapes can be arranged to flawlessly connect and create more complex shapes, or how the beats, rhythms, melodies, etc. in music are seamless and can be configured, almost mathematically, into a song. The existence of these sorts of things really negates any idea that "nothing is real" or that "everything is an illusion," because well, numbers are real; they're not an illusion (same with my other examples).
That being said, I really relate to, and am fascinated and inspired by, a lot of Nietzsche's and Schopenhauer's philosophy. Both of them almost perfectly articulate the specific impact and significance of good, honest music; music that really captures the essence of what music is supposed to be, I guess.
That’s an interesting path back to Christianity.
You were able to see the order of it all.....and order is not accidental.
"You don't find straight lines in nature they say. But if you find them, know that man had been there. And when you find purposeful order, know that God IS there."
Can anyone figure out what philosopher said that?????? 1.0 Ethereum to anyone can figure that one out...Or some Xrp..how about 2000 xrp if anyone can get it. Google won't help you..someone who REALLY know philosophy need apply. This will be interesting!!!
This is not a good example at all. Let's go back to Pythagoras and then the 6th century Catholic senator, theologian, philosopher, and music theorist Boethius, who used Pythagoras' findings to bolster his belief in divinity. Pythagoras heard hammers of different weights clanging in succession at different intervals. He learned that the hammers had different weights, and that one hammer that weighed 3/2 of another hammer creative the interval of a perfect 5th. He used these measurements (2:1, 3:2, 4:3, etc) to construct a 7-note scale that we still use today. With this scale made of perfect ratios (without 'beats'), he claimed that their perfection represented the divine. Except that there was a mistake. The final note was NOT perfect, and so he called it a "comma" or a remainder. The Pythagorean Comma is in fact evidence of an imperfection: a divine mistake! Not necessarily with nature, but of constructing scales. Therefore Pythagoras and Boethius were completely wrong to recognize the divine in the construction of these scales.
@@Jimmylad. wow I’m an atheist now. You’re right numbers are actually bullshit and everything is random and meaningless. Thanks that really improved my life. I’m gonna go do ayahuasca in the jungle with some Indians now. Namaste. 🙏
@@ragtimegals math is not perfect
There is a reason why every culture has produced its own music.
True
One of your best videos
Nice video. I needed a break from trying to understand economics 😭 (or should I say a break from trying to understand theories of value, or should I say micro vs macro, or should I say idealism vs materialism, or should I say AARRRRGGHHH!!!! vs swoooooo....). But also, I do know that when our muscles work the nerves involved transmit on a frequency that is in the audible range - the higher the frequency the more intense the muscles work.
I absolutely love your channel. You're a great inspiration man!
Great thanks!
I would love a study into how to appreciate music of the dionesyian style that neitszche refers to.
A neglected aspect of music is that it is the closest approximation a human mind can yet have in trying to understand the fundamental nature of the physical universe on its own terms, that is, with the fewest primate filters and overlays. Reality is dynamic vibrational energies and their subsequent higher order patterns.
No thanks to tone painters. Agreed without music life would be a mistake. Reminder to myself to explore Wagner. Thank you. Much appreciate thoughts on thinking.
I am a simple smart guy. I see Schopenhauer - I click.
Love Schopenhauer.
Good one
as i say, music is the sonification of the universe’s ability to evolve into something that exists as a being. a sonic engine if you will.
Very nice Video, I got a Video Idea for You: Thoughts about Music from the Old Greeks (For Example Pythagoras)
That sounds juicy, might do that 👌
*turns on random Playboi Carti leak*
Carti is the creator of music
as long as he keeps capturing visceral aspects of his internal and external experience people will continue to connect and there will be no greater need to decipher his lyrics than there were yesterday
Music is where silence reigns
Now thiink of the effect brazilian funk and its derivatives, plus trap and pop music will do to the human spirit.
Lmao
It will sink it, just like most of the shit in this country has played a huge role in our cultural subversion and regression.
Music is a expression of human life
I wish I was smart enough to understand this haha
Me too Lol.I think i have to study philosophy
I wonder what they would have thought about differnent styles of jazz.
That it's crap
Mendelssohn - String Quartet No.6 Op.80 ....
As a writer, Bach has given more creative inspiration than any Author I've ever read.
What would Nietzsche and Wagner say about J.Hendrix?
What would you say about it?
@@GranSinderesis "Far Out man "
You know what the problem is. These dudes didn't have tennis courts or play station. Thought is the problem, not lack of it. The latter is bliss!
Yeah.
I was reading the birth of tragedy and all the way I was like.
*Uhm, excuseme me sir. WTF?*
I AM glad there were summaries of IT or I would just end up in the asulum ;-;
It's a great book, shame that I didn't think of using a commonplace notebook while reading it at the time.
@@ThoughtsonThinking
Well.
You can try to read IT.
But I AM Polish and since Polish is peculiar in its Word structure. Well, I AM gonna need either time, luck or both to get to him.
And maybe 10 books including Hegel (kill me) so uhm. Yeah.
*I cant find my gun, could you pls give me yours? Ah, yes yes yes yes yes. Yes this one with the "philosphers key to abbys Doors itself* one. Thank you, see you in there later!
Bye Bye!*
Nietzsche used to talk better when he was young, being 14 years old was better for him than being 50 years, becoming an atheist and then talking about music is a No No, you have to fell miserably, and he did unfortunately.
Sorry but it’s pronounced “Vahgner” not Wagner
😅
There is more music throughout the world that is not European classical. Plenty that sounds far from Wagner, for example. Did these guys even consider that?
No because it's inferior. (Kidding)
No because he hated Wagner and German nationalism embedded in his music - wrote music and probably burnt it all just to discharge himself into writing philosophy. Then serialism came out as an antithesis to classical music and the analytic philosophy behind it. I also studied history of music it's only 2 courses.
SCHOPENHAUSER CONCIDER MUSIC TO BE IN A LEAGUE OF IT'S OWN APART FROM ALL OTHER ARTS.
HOWEVER, I SUSPECT SCHOPENHAUSER LACKED A SENCE OF HUMOUR.
MUSIC AND HUMOUR ARE BOTH WAVE FORMS AND WILL TAKE YOU TO THE SAME PLACE THAT IS BEING
LOST IN ONES SELF.......................I AM CKB;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;2021;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
OMG PLEEEEASE don't say Wagner with a [w] sound, it's [Va(r)gner] haha
You repeatedly saying it wrong with such confidence is like Benedict Cumberbatch saying penguin wrong on the David Attenborough documentary lmao
Very boring honestly. When you have to define somethibg with so many words it becomes CERO universal. So it destroys the point actually.
What is your source for this Syfilis claim? He probably actually had a brain tumor
This feels meaningless. It's a cool attempt to explain music in terms of concept but everyone already intuitively knows what music is, it's significant doesn't need to be explained.
Does one need a PhD to understand any of this? or is it, as appears a bunch of nonsense?
Musician
Most certainly the latter, sir
I came to philosophy and theory from music and belonging [to a band].