Evelyn’s story is so sad but in a way I’m glad she was able to outlive both of those terrible men. Also wild that she died so relatively recently. Idk seeing her actually on film was so surprising
@@faeriesmak I mean that she didn’t die 150 years ago. It’s weird to me that she would be alive when cameras and movies were invented because the early 1900s feel so far away
@@lexg5317The 1960s were also a very long time ago, 1963 was 60 years ago. My grandma was a teenager during the Vietnamese war, when Evelyn died. My grandma's older brother too young to be drafted. She's in her 80s.
@@lexg5317 She did experience happy moments as well. Her relationship with John Barrymore was one of a such. Her refusal to marry him was most likely only due to pressure from both her and his mom. The "removal of her appendix" prior to her trip to Europe with Thaw, might very well have been an abortion after getting pregnant with Barrymore. (As far as I understand it, she had already had her "appendix removed" at least twice). Barrymore was a former child actor and struggling artist, and had issues on his own, (his own virginity was lost by SA by his stepmom if I recall correctly). But he wasn’t some old creep, he was two years her senior or so…. He did end up leaving the life as an artist behind in favor of acting. At least how I recall what I’ve read about them, they were in genuine love with each other….
This was horrible. Two childish, spoiled men abusing Evelyn and countless others without consequence, and a world that mythologised the very lies her abusers told themselves. Thank you Kaz, as always, for setting the record straight in such a human, truthful way...
It boggles my mind that she died in 1967….in my brain she lived in a world far from me (early 1900s) but then she also got to be on tv and died two years before we landed on the moon. Crazy. 😳
Consider my maternal grandmother born in the 1890s married my grandfather in 1918 and lived until I was in grade 12 in 1986! From the gramophone to the Walkman!
Given stories like these I imagined she would have died soon after due to any number of factors relating to what happened to her, but no she lived to be 82! I can't say it was a happy ending for her, but at least she managed to live without those monsters.
Really, the 1900s isn't that long ago! It's just a couple of generations, still within living memory. My great grandfather was born in 1891. I was a toddler when he died in the early 1980s. My great grandmother was born in 1894, and she died in the early 1990s. My grandmother was born in 1917. We lost her two years ago. She was 103.
I was similarly drugged and R’ed, in 2012. The police didn’t take it seriously, and the R-ist wasn’t convicted of anything. I sure wish people would evolve already. It’s been over one hundred and twenty years, and people still act like this doesn’t happen-and when it does, it’s just a misunderstanding. I didn’t misunderstand anything. I don’t think Evelyn did, either.
A similar thing happened to me, someone I trusted abused that trust. The police were apathetic at best and I later found out that they never filed my report. Times have not changed. I'm sorry you've been through this too
I know I'm probably not a victim like a younger girl but when my first bf broke up with me I was 18 and an older guy in his mid 30s I knew from work said let's get drunk tonight so you get over it (Europe so legal). I was sheltered and hadn't done much drinking before so I passed out soon and woke up the next morning naked sans my virginity. I felt like it was my fault and the guy claimed I was "into it" although I remembered nothing at all, I didn't even remember getting into his apartment. It really messed me up for a long time and my friends and even my mom said I had no one to blame but myself, it was the early 00s and there was less awareness about these things so I've recently wondered if this was a form of r-word after all. I developed severe OCD and couldn't even leave the house for a year, the mental health consequences were severe for something that everyone told me was just a dumb drunk mistake and I need to get over it already.
@@c.w.8200 you definitely were still a victim in that situation. That guy took advantage of you, you're not to blame. So sorry that happened to you :-(
I remember reading about this story several years ago, and I always thought the way several articles portrayed Evelyn, as this wicked temptress or "femme fatale" type, was really dishonest and sad because they failed to acknowledge that she was a vulnerable young girl being used and taken advantage of by two grown men. It's just a really sad story for her overall.
It’s not on accident. Just think who it serves and who benefits. They get to behave with no consequences because they blame their victim and they make that mindset seem like “common sense.”
It mystifies me that in a situation in which this child is lured to the home of a man over twice her age with the lie of there being a dinner party, given drugged wine, and being taken advantage of in that drugged state, somehow she's the one to blame. So gross.
If I count correctly it wasn't even over twice her age, it was thrice ans then some, she was 15/16 and he was 47/8. In other words yikes on so many fucking bikes that it's a tour the yikes.
@@alicianelson1252 was going to say the same thing. I worry for my grand daughter and my friends grand daughters especially with the rise of social media.
@kitty lynch show the jury a picture of a girl passed out drunk and the rapist gets off to hell with the medical evidence society is cruel to women and girls this has to change
I was in a production of Ragtime (the musical) some years ago and, can confirm, that show and the novel do Evelyn REAL dirty. The lady playing her in the musical shared a dressing room with me and several other female cast members, and I remember her telling us about just how much of Evelyn’s life had been left out of or changed for the musical, and being shocked, not to mention utterly horrified. There was a long pause. Then one of the other women, a black woman who sang the song “Til We Reach That Day” in the show, remarked something along the lines of, “Damn. If that’s how they (‘they’ referring to the writers of the novel/script) treated a famous young white socialite, what the hell did they do to us?” (‘us’ referring to BIPOC and other marginalized groups- like immigrants and Jewish people, for example- who are portrayed in the show) There was another long silence as we all considered what other horrors had been swept under the rug bc a writer, or editor, or production team considered it unimportant or somehow irrelevant to the story they were trying to tell. Or maybe, that they didn’t know about it at all. Maybe they had taken the salacious fictions of the contemporary tabloids as facts, never considering them beyond face value- lady sexy = lady bad, man rich = man good- and then portrayed that fiction as historical fact to millions of audience members. I won’t speak for my cast mates, but I know I was unsure which explanation would have been worse. I’m a bit ashamed that I didn’t immediately go out and research everything I could about the ACTUAL history behind the fictional story of Ragtime. I was a full time student at that time, balancing 18 credit hours of coursework with 4 hour nightly rehearsals, 2 part time jobs, being designated as the unpaid chauffeur for many a (drunk) friend/roommate as one of the few students with a car on campus, and struggling with the aftermath of a s.a. Evelyn’s real story was a horrible gut punch, but I’m glad I learned about it. The ladies and enbies of that dressing room quickly formed a kind of Evelyn Nesbit fan club, and sought to uplift and support each other the way we hoped Evelyn and her chorus girl friends would have. We became very close, I recall a Facebook group which at one time was called Nesbit’s Ninnies in jest but also as an attempt to reclaim such terms. It was a genuinely very positive and accepting group of people, tho we wouldn’t hesitate to correct or call each other out when we had made a mistake/done something wrong. It was surprisingly healthy and lovely, and while much of my time with that musical I now look back upon and cringe, Nesbit’s Ninnies, while imperfect, is certainly an odd sort of bright, positive memory. Thank you for expanding my knowledge of her story Kaz. You, as always, have done a wonderful job.
I saw it on Broadway with the original cast and loved it, especially the musical score in the songs. But as someone who had read the book several times, my one disappointment was how they reduced Evelyn to just two vaudeville-style musical numbers. I understand that she was ancillary to the Coalhouse-Mother-Tateh centered plot as it was written in the musical. So I remember wishing that they just cut her role altogether instead of marginalizing her so much.
@@larrydirtybird I haven’t read the book but it’s very nice to know she’s treated decently. I was really touched by the musical in other aspects but this… having known Evelyn’s story and being a victim myself it’s just sad, but our history is always rewritten for us. It hurts, it’s inexcusable, but it’s true I don’t know a girl who hasn’t had their story butchered. I am just glad the history the original author relayed was closer to the truth. It makes me feel a little better this morning to hear that. Thank you.
@@faithg7750 , well, just so you know, Ragtime doesn’t tell a recounting of the events of her life. Ragtime uses historical figures from that time as characters in fictional scenes. It makes them characters in the story. Kind of like in the 1997 movie Titanic, Molly Brown was a character, but obviously, in real life, there was no Jack that she gave a tuxedo to. In Ragtime, Evelyn is given a massage by Emma Goldman, freeing her from her corsets Obviously that never happened in real life. In the novel, Evelyn meets a poor Jewish immigrant from Eastern Europe and becomes attached to his daughter and wants to become a mother figure for the little girl. All of that is fictional, but Evelyn is treated as a very warm-hearted person who’s trying to find herself and her own sense of womanhood.
That's what I thought too. I remember seeing all of those pics of those rich wealthy ladies in fancy dress costumes with custom-painted backgrounds, yet they all looked very artificial. However, the beauty of Evelyn just elevates her photos to another level.
Poor Evelyn was victimized by so many around her, it’s terrible she had no one looking out for her. The way she describes her assaults were just heartbreaking. Sad that stuff like this still goes on.
If it wouldn't take attention away from the horrible trauma and tragedy the victim endured, one might have called this "The Tale of Two R*pists." Or stalkers or whatever you wanna call it. Because that's all they are and all they should ever be known for.
Just because Stanford was so accomplished and built the popular architectures that still remain in New York- I think it's a disservice for Evelyn that the structures are still named after Stanford.
This is why women need to be able to make decisions for themselves!! This poor woman just was at the mercy of two terrible men and had no power to escape!
Gender is irrelevant when raised by abusers. Abusers teach victims to stay victims, and scars them for life even if the victim can finally move on to becoming a survivor.
@@tirsden Considering this was in the 1900s. Gender plays a huge role since women had little anatomy. And a poor girl at that. Class as well plays into this since two wealthy men, having blinds eyes being turn away from them due their power and status in society. Everything intersects.
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but as a transmasc nonbinary, I really appreciate the non gender specific language you use in your videos!!!! Not to mention in general your videos are incredibly informative and nuanced. Thank you for your videos!!
I really appreciate how you present the information on any of your topics without sensationalism and with respect. You paint such vivid pictures of the past without glorifying it or putting people on a pedestal. With Evelyn Nesbit it seems like people really just wanted the juicy bits, then and even now. The 1950s movie seems so terrible, especially since Evelyn was still alive!
I have just seen another video on this lady today, having never heard of her before. A fascinating story. I'm glad that both you and the other channel chose to treat her story with respect, as you say it's a shame she was not shown any during her lifetime.
What's interesting is that Stanford White was featured on a few episodes of the HBO series "The Gilded Age," as the builder for the Russell family. They're basically a fictional take on the Vanderbilts. I'm REALLY intrigued to see if the show will explore Evelyn and this situation in a future season. It would be really compelling to watch the fallout from that scandal, and see its impact on society and various characters connected to both Evelyn and Stanford.
Except Stanny never designed for the Vanderbilts, Biltmore, Marble House, The Breakers and Alva's Fifth Aenue house were all designed by William Morris Hunt. White did design a very larg recreation complex for John Jacob Astor -the one who die on the Titanic - at his estate on the Hudson. I used to be a wedding venue - I think the Clinton's daughter was married there.
I'm watching this video five feet from a photo-postcard of Miss Evelyn that sits on my bookshelf, as a reminder that no life is what it appears to be on the surface. Thank you so much for bringing her story into the light, and may her memory be for a blessing. (And it wasn't lost on me either that you're posting this on a day R. Kelly's victims are getting some measure of justice for more or less the same awfulness that everyone shrugged off re Stanford White. Never say we aren't making at least some progress.)
While this type of narrative is unfortunately present today, the brave women who have spoken up have improved the way we view assault and abuse as a society.
I’m an art history major and did a some research about Evelyn Nesbit some time ago so I would like to thank you for being so kind and fair with your portrayal of her.
Evelyn is such an inspirational person. It is amazing that she never grew bitter against all the people that used and abused her. She sounds like such a kind and lovely woman, that kept on trying to make the best out of all those horrible situations, time and time again!
I always heard of the “Gibson girl”, but I had no idea who she was. Thank you for making this video! It was very informative. It’s so sad that she lived such a tragic life.
While I recognized the name, I can't say I recognized the story. Poor woman, that is a seriously rough road she walked. Edit: ah yes, it's always what a woman/feminine presenting person wears, says or does that's at fault, not the man who does the action 🙄 I'm somewhat gobsmacked she kept going for so long, if naught else I applaud her determination to keep going despite all the crap that kept being thrown her way
Kaz! I have to get this off my chest whether you see it or not. Last week I landed on the wiki page of Evelyn Nesbit which took me down a hyperfixation rabbit hole researching the Victorian and Edwardian eras. At the same time, I was dogsitting so I had a lot of free time to sit around and and sew. I like to watch (moreso listen) to youtube videos while I sew, so I hopped on and one of your videos was recommended to me. I’ve done some rough math and in the week since then I’ve watched around 14 hours of your content, which is a bit embarrassing to admit, but it was just what I needed. You’re a phenomenal storyteller and I’m endlessly inspired by the topics you choose to present. And today you post a video about Evelyn! Just a nifty coincidence that I felt the need to share. :)
Another excellent video. I always feel so horrifically upset over what Evelyn went through, and over all the many other people who've suffered similar events.
Thaw reminds me of Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver. Desperately wanting “justice” against the “degenerate” men who cause misery, while being oblivious to the harm he himself causes.
Poor Evelyn. Apart from the murder, I've been through a worrying amount of the same things she suffered, and it breaks you. She was right when she said the tragedy is that she lived. Surviving what she went through is a life sentence.
I love the Musical Ragtime, but i hated the way they treated Evelyn's character. She was a child exploited and the musical uses that as a joke. And the musical is wonderful otherwise, they had no excuse to do that
I just played Evelyn in Ragtime, and after learning what truly happened to her it really rubbed me the wrong way. Like, at least it helps to keep her name and memory alive, but honestly in the worst way possible :(
My gosh the horrible life Evelyn lived. My heart goes out to her but she never gave up after all the horrible and tragic things she went thru she kept fighting and that imo showed how strong she was.
As a rape survivor, i can understand evelyn all too well. This is why we often dont go to the police. Reliving the experience is often as bad as the experience itself.
thanks again for another thoughtful deep dive into the thorny thicket of popular culture. I first encountered Evelyn's story as a kid from a cast recording of the musical "Ragtime," a depiction not far off from the horrible 1950s movie you mentioned. thank you for doing her better justice than she received in her day. you're doing amazing work, please keep it up!
For more information on this story, read my friend, Dr. Paula Uruburu's book, "American Eve," or Paul Baker's "Stanny, the Gilded Life of Stanford White." Both are excellent!
so she was groomed as a child, ppl blamed her grooming on her, sick. nice. love when we just don't consider age at all as a society sometimes. thank u for the video and doing her justice
Thank you so much for this video!!! I learned of Evelyn from a video at my library I believe it was called "Trial of the Century". I had 4 sons and now I have several granddaughters. The eldest is 15 and she IS a child in a brand new adults body. I thought of her when you mentioned Evelyn was being manipulated by two adult very rich very powerful predatory men and it sent a shiver down my spine. I think Evelyn was a remarkable woman and I'm not sure that there are many who could have faired better in her circumstances.
The costumes, the background, the thoroughness of the mysterious, exciting, but always fascinating subject matter! All A+++. The fact that it all is heavy on the LGBTQ themes is the cherry on top! So glad I stumbled onto your content!
Jesus Christ this poor girl. Ok I take back the White being a creep thing. He is so much worse. Both of the men are. They are monsters. Evelyn was caught between the worst people. That poor girl. For girl she was . She wasn’t even out of her teens when this went down. Oh my heart goes out to her.
The funny thing is, I know who Evelyn is and what she looked like, but had no idea who the hell her abusers were. People remember her name and her pictures and her life and not theirs. She outlived them in every sense.
Stanford White though was one of the preeminent Architects of the time and though few of his buildings survive, in architecture circles he's still known. There are still a few of his homes and grand cottages designed by him for the newly wealthy families looking to secure status in the same way as old money families. He was a hugely talented architect, establishing a number of important styles in America. I feel sad that he was also a shit and an abuser of young women, but he did treat Evelyn kindly in a way that no one else did, and as she said, "Stanny was lucky, he died. And I lived." Though tragic, he was the only man she loved. My heart breaks for her being treated as a commodity by so many and especially as practically hardly older than a young child.
@@lamoinette23 Anecdotal but I think Evelyn is more well-known than White considering the Gibson Girl is almost synonymous with her and people know what she looked like as a result.
@@vs6584 Thank you, I most certainly knew the image of the Gibson girl but I did not know it was Evelyn, in fact I did not know her to be a real person at all until 2 weeks ago. Stanny introduced her to Gibson, who made her the quintessential Gibson Girl. I knew Stanford White from Historic Preservation classes, from the firm, McKim, Meade and White. Didn't know anything else about them until 2 weeks ago.
What a woman. I hadn’t heard of her before, but this was very interesting to learn about. It really touched me emotionally in a way. Thank you for this video
Thank you so much for this Kaz. Evelyn Nesbitt has been someone I’ve admired for years and I’ve hoped someone would do this kind of deep dive into the events you’ve covered. She was so beautiful and certainly left her mark! I just wish her life hadn’t been so horrible. Thank you Kaz❤️
I’ve always wanted to learn more about Evelyn, so thank you for putting the time + research into making this! Also completely off topic but your outfit is 👌👌👌👌
Poor Evelyn... That's heartbreaking. I hope bringing more attention to the real story does some justice to this poor woman. When you said you are going to talk about her *second* assault, that's when I started tearing up.
I just had the opportunity of playing Evelyn in the musical “Ragtime,” and would just like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for telling her story. I have grown so fond of her through my exploration into her character, and feel so deeply for her tragic circumstances. So happy that videos like this keep the TRUE STORY of Miss Nesbit’s terrible circumstances and her memory alive. ❤️
OKAY OMG I was just visiting the Allegheny Observatory here in Pittsburgh and one of their telescopes is named after the Thaw family. Our tour guide related this same story and said that the Thaw family wanted to distract from the scandal/ make sure they weren't solely remembered for this incident. The Harry's siblings donated a bunch of their money to the observatory to preserve their family's legacy, thus we have the Thaw telescope. Thanks for the video, Kaz!
"This telescope is dedicated to the family of the man who abused a woman who had already been abused by another man, then murdered that first abuser and wondered why the world thought him a lunatic." - the plaque, or what it should be.
Awesome video Kaz! I really appreciate your humanization of Evelyn - something I often notice missing from other portraits of her. People have a tendency of portraying her as this calculating, mercurial woman who knew exactly what she was doing and "would do whatever it took to remain in the spotlight, even if it meant 'ruining' the lives of good men along the way", or you'd have the Ragtime musical's interpolation of her (I have not read the novel or seen the movie versions, but from what I've heard, she's more of a background character-- in the book she's only mentioned by name, although I cannot speak to the accuracy of either); she is portrayed as an airheaded ditz, extremely flighty-- as if you're meant to laugh at her and wonder how she is able to remember to breathe in order to stay alive. (Not surprisingly, there's often an undercurrent of misogyny to these depictions of Evelyn.)
I noticed the stuffed Tutter mouse in the background and suddenly realized I missed a whole history point! I went back and caught up but I just had to shoutout one of my favorite little anxious blue characters. Excellent decor as usual! Also I want to shoutout how well I think you handled a series of delicate topics. It's strangely refreshing to hear someone not want to focus on the more intense details. Not only is there plenty of warning for anyone who needs it, but you're just sharing facts; it doesn't feel like your enjoying a gossip session. Thank you for your tact, I'm sure Evelyn appreciates it as well.
I never mourn the death of a rapist or child abuser, but I did feel outrage and exasperation at the phrase "he ruined my wife" like FFS sake when will we finally stop evaluating women based on their virginity?
I’ve felt such a connection to her story since learning she was the inspiration for Anne Shirley. I love how she ended her life as an art teacher. I’d like to think she found peace.
I think you just helped me identify the model on a very old post card I have. Thank you so much for telling her story, the more I watched the more I realized it was definitely her.
The choices I’ve made and the way I’ve acted when being with abusive men is so far out of my character, things I can’t even imagine myself doing now I wouldn’t blame her if she went insane and k worded them both
Firstly, Stanford White had a hell of a stache. Secondly, holding out hope for an eventual video on Franz Kafka, mainly because I've been reading his diaries.
This is a wonderful video. I recently worked on a production of Ragtime (the plot and message of which I have many many many problems with) and I’ve never liked the song “crime of the century”, about Evelyn’s role in Harry Thaw’s murder trial. She is painted as having a secret affair with Stanford white and being delighted with all the drama and attention she’s getting from the trial. One notable line is “Stanny’s killed but my mother’s thrilled, ‘cause now I’m the girl on the swing!” Never sat well with me. Thank you for making this video about the real girl behind the sensation (and the technician group chat from the show also likes it :D)
Another wonderful and informative video! I feel so sad for E Nesbit, she suffered so much and was so terribly used by everyone around her. Can you imagine the sheer determination it took for her to keep going? I'll definitely look into her autobiographies.
Partially because I do love the way your handling certain topics and partially because you're just covering interesting cases of themes - I do love your videos.
This is a terribly soul crushing experience. I endured my older brother handing me nake dad and afraid . Thank you for the story of strength and courage. She is a story of so much courage much loved and sounded like
Thank you for telling this story accurately. Like you said in the video so many retellings of this story don’t do justice to Evelyn Nesbit and continue the long tradition of blaming her for what happened to her. Finally people are telling her story the way it really happened.
I’ve been interested in Evelyn’s life ever since I first read Ragtime in 1983, when I was 15 years old. When she became a human trophy for New York’s most powerful men, I was the same age as she was, just a high school kid. I tried to imagine myself in that situation. Unimaginable. Every few years I rediscover her and look at all those beautiful old photos. I wish that her relationship with John Barrymore could have been allowed to continue. They were the about the same age, equally attractive, and seemed to have a genuine affection for each other. It was a natural romance, not a calculated abusive one where she was just the pawn of White, Thaw and her mother. I hope one day they make a movie or a Netflix or Hulu series where they do her life justice. Anyway, this is my favorite line from Ragtime: “And though the newspapers called it ‘the trial of the century,’ Emma Goldman knew that it was only 1906, and there were 94 years to go.” 😂 Hey, you should do a video on Emma Goldman! What a life. The two volumes of her autobiography are fascinating. You should read them if you never have.
I love the hole set up of this story. I did not skip to the different times because I wanted to hear the entire story. It's unfortunate that a story of rape and murder has to be censored, utterly ridiculous. I was not familiar with the story and I am more than sure there are many like them just not as widely covered as this was money power and fame. Well done if u plan or have done other such stories I would love to hear them. All of them no skips
This is a terrific post and historically accurate. Great job. Not every history post on RUclips is this good. For what it’s worth on Monday May 20, 1895 Stanford White held a party where a 16 year old girl Susie Johnson popped out of a pie surrounded by a flock of canaries. At the party was Charles Dana Gibson, Nikola Tesla and Augustus Saint-Gaudens. Interestingly enough it appears Alice Roosevelt seemed to imitate Evelyn Nesbit’s look and style. The two were the same age, had similar features and both enjoyed being the center of attention.
thank you for such a nuanced depiction, it was fantastic. I appreciate the warning and the timestamps because I sometimes watch youtube with my kid and she does not need to hear everything, so that's really cool for a completely different reason than planned, I know.
I got to write about this story and do research on it for a book! It's such a tragic story and one that is too easily romanticized, hope Evelyn is resting well wherever that may be.
I literally just finished watching "The Girl on the Red Velvet Swing" and I also hated it. It's odd that Evelyn was involved in the production since it romanticized her story rather than showing the horrible use and abuse of her by all adults in her life including two much older sexual predators. Perhaps, that was the way she preferred to think of that period of her life, rather than the tragic reality of it. Both White and Thaw were despicable and her mother was a disgrace as a mother.
A couple of bits of trivia: McKim, Meed and White designed the original neoclassical part of the Minneapolis Institute of Arts, the iron gate of the White estate is now outside of Mercyhurst College (Erie, PA), and in 2016 I did a painting of Evelyn Nesbit, adding her to my powerful/legendary women of history series.
Hey! Super late to the party but I LOVED this video! I read Ragtime in college and thoroughly enjoyed the discussion it stirred up in our class. Your historical synopsis was brilliant and added even more context to a subject I forgot I loved so much! Thank you 😊
What I love about this channel is that you dig into deep history. This isn't a story I ever see talked about personally, and I appreciate the chance to get to learn new stories. However horrifying they may be.
Discovered your channel about 6 hours ago and have been watching your videos the whole time . I love the amount of detail and sensitivity you use with each topic, your content feels like a podcast with cool outfits and pictures i love it sm!!
I always enjoy your video essays. Even through the disgust you have with some of the actual material, you can see the passion you have for the subject matter. Thank you and keep up the good work
I love history!! I spend alot of time alone pusuing my interests. My life was always like this, even as a child. Early in the mornings I scroll through RUclips, with my cup of coffee..for some reason I find myself looking for certain subjects in History. I've done lots of research on the Holocaust. Somehow I stumbled upon this channel! Just my good luck!
You had details I had not heard before. I remember seeing a picture of thaw dinning in his cell tablecloth and formal table setting with food from Delmonico's. That always made me shudder. Well done!
Why, in this world of algorithmic life, does RUclips insist on continuing to notify me about my hated monarchy (when I have repeatedly flagged that I don't want to hear about it) but didn't tell me there was a new Kaz Rowe?
![Kodak Black - Catch Fire [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A4ch-olIuZo/mqdefault.jpg)
The "everyone always thought it would be a father" line is so unsettling
Yeah, that was *haunting*. Everyone knew. And she had lost her father so early in her life. I can only imagine how she felt seeing that.
Very telling, as well. Yikes.
The fact that White's secret entrance to one of his hidden apartments was in a toy store is chilling.
Yeah wait hold the fuck on...
That's a red flag and a half
Right?? I thought the same thing. Yuck.
@@merrittanimation7721 that is a whole Soviet union military parade.
very pedofilic
Evelyn’s story is so sad but in a way I’m glad she was able to outlive both of those terrible men. Also wild that she died so relatively recently. Idk seeing her actually on film was so surprising
Recently? She died 55 years ago..that’s awhile back.
@@faeriesmak I mean that she didn’t die 150 years ago. It’s weird to me that she would be alive when cameras and movies were invented because the early 1900s feel so far away
@@lexg5317 Ahh..yea. That's true.
@@lexg5317The 1960s were also a very long time ago, 1963 was 60 years ago. My grandma was a teenager during the Vietnamese war, when Evelyn died. My grandma's older brother too young to be drafted. She's in her 80s.
@@lexg5317
She did experience happy moments as well.
Her relationship with John Barrymore was one of a such.
Her refusal to marry him was most likely only due to pressure from both her and his mom.
The "removal of her appendix" prior to her trip to Europe with Thaw, might very well have been an abortion after getting pregnant with Barrymore.
(As far as I understand it, she had already had her "appendix removed" at least twice).
Barrymore was a former child actor and struggling artist, and had issues on his own, (his own virginity was lost by SA by his stepmom if I recall correctly).
But he wasn’t some old creep, he was two years her senior or so….
He did end up leaving the life as an artist behind in favor of acting.
At least how I recall what I’ve read about them, they were in genuine love with each other….
This was horrible. Two childish, spoiled men abusing Evelyn and countless others without consequence, and a world that mythologised the very lies her abusers told themselves. Thank you Kaz, as always, for setting the record straight in such a human, truthful way...
These guys were terrible. Her mother putting her in harms way was even worse. This is what happens when women have no livelihood and no rights.
@@sarahrobertson634 To be remembered when people say the past was a gentler, simpler, more innocent time.
@@653j521 Yeah, men have always been evil.
@@sarahrobertson634In no way was her mother worse than the two pedophilic rapists
The world is full of men like this and… well a lot of them make movies :(
It boggles my mind that she died in 1967….in my brain she lived in a world far from me (early 1900s) but then she also got to be on tv and died two years before we landed on the moon. Crazy. 😳
Consider my maternal grandmother born in the 1890s married my grandfather in 1918 and lived until I was in grade 12 in 1986! From the gramophone to the Walkman!
Given stories like these I imagined she would have died soon after due to any number of factors relating to what happened to her, but no she lived to be 82! I can't say it was a happy ending for her, but at least she managed to live without those monsters.
A century really is only a few generations.
@@SamyTheBookWorm I heard someone use the term human lifetime and I was struck by how much more impact that had on me than saying generation or era
Really, the 1900s isn't that long ago! It's just a couple of generations, still within living memory. My great grandfather was born in 1891. I was a toddler when he died in the early 1980s. My great grandmother was born in 1894, and she died in the early 1990s. My grandmother was born in 1917. We lost her two years ago. She was 103.
I was similarly drugged and R’ed, in 2012. The police didn’t take it seriously, and the R-ist wasn’t convicted of anything. I sure wish people would evolve already.
It’s been over one hundred and twenty years, and people still act like this doesn’t happen-and when it does, it’s just a misunderstanding. I didn’t misunderstand anything. I don’t think Evelyn did, either.
I am so very sorry
Thank you. Speak up for us... Justice wasn't even an option for me, either. Barely took the report.
A similar thing happened to me, someone I trusted abused that trust. The police were apathetic at best and I later found out that they never filed my report. Times have not changed. I'm sorry you've been through this too
I know I'm probably not a victim like a younger girl but when my first bf broke up with me I was 18 and an older guy in his mid 30s I knew from work said let's get drunk tonight so you get over it (Europe so legal). I was sheltered and hadn't done much drinking before so I passed out soon and woke up the next morning naked sans my virginity. I felt like it was my fault and the guy claimed I was "into it" although I remembered nothing at all, I didn't even remember getting into his apartment. It really messed me up for a long time and my friends and even my mom said I had no one to blame but myself, it was the early 00s and there was less awareness about these things so I've recently wondered if this was a form of r-word after all. I developed severe OCD and couldn't even leave the house for a year, the mental health consequences were severe for something that everyone told me was just a dumb drunk mistake and I need to get over it already.
@@c.w.8200 you definitely were still a victim in that situation. That guy took advantage of you, you're not to blame. So sorry that happened to you :-(
I remember reading about this story several years ago, and I always thought the way several articles portrayed Evelyn, as this wicked temptress or "femme fatale" type, was really dishonest and sad because they failed to acknowledge that she was a vulnerable young girl being used and taken advantage of by two grown men. It's just a really sad story for her overall.
Yeah. White must have assaulted her before she was even of age. She was not the person “in charge” here.
It’s not on accident. Just think who it serves and who benefits. They get to behave with no consequences because they blame their victim and they make that mindset seem like “common sense.”
I have that book behind you “ragtime” but I haven’t read it yet
It mystifies me that in a situation in which this child is lured to the home of a man over twice her age with the lie of there being a dinner party, given drugged wine, and being taken advantage of in that drugged state, somehow she's the one to blame. So gross.
It still happens today
I think the decendents of white paid to have people write about her lime that
If I count correctly it wasn't even over twice her age, it was thrice ans then some, she was 15/16 and he was 47/8.
In other words yikes on so many fucking bikes that it's a tour the yikes.
@@alicianelson1252 was going to say the same thing. I worry for my grand daughter and my friends grand daughters especially with the rise of social media.
@kitty lynch show the jury a picture of a girl passed out drunk and the rapist gets off to hell with the medical evidence society is cruel to women and girls this has to change
I was in a production of Ragtime (the musical) some years ago and, can confirm, that show and the novel do Evelyn REAL dirty.
The lady playing her in the musical shared a dressing room with me and several other female cast members, and I remember her telling us about just how much of Evelyn’s life had been left out of or changed for the musical, and being shocked, not to mention utterly horrified.
There was a long pause. Then one of the other women, a black woman who sang the song “Til We Reach That Day” in the show, remarked something along the lines of, “Damn. If that’s how they (‘they’ referring to the writers of the novel/script) treated a famous young white socialite, what the hell did they do to us?” (‘us’ referring to BIPOC and other marginalized groups- like immigrants and Jewish people, for example- who are portrayed in the show)
There was another long silence as we all considered what other horrors had been swept under the rug bc a writer, or editor, or production team considered it unimportant or somehow irrelevant to the story they were trying to tell. Or maybe, that they didn’t know about it at all. Maybe they had taken the salacious fictions of the contemporary tabloids as facts, never considering them beyond face value- lady sexy = lady bad, man rich = man good- and then portrayed that fiction as historical fact to millions of audience members. I won’t speak for my cast mates, but I know I was unsure which explanation would have been worse.
I’m a bit ashamed that I didn’t immediately go out and research everything I could about the ACTUAL history behind the fictional story of Ragtime. I was a full time student at that time, balancing 18 credit hours of coursework with 4 hour nightly rehearsals, 2 part time jobs, being designated as the unpaid chauffeur for many a (drunk) friend/roommate as one of the few students with a car on campus, and struggling with the aftermath of a s.a.
Evelyn’s real story was a horrible gut punch, but I’m glad I learned about it. The ladies and enbies of that dressing room quickly formed a kind of Evelyn Nesbit fan club, and sought to uplift and support each other the way we hoped Evelyn and her chorus girl friends would have. We became very close, I recall a Facebook group which at one time was called Nesbit’s Ninnies in jest but also as an attempt to reclaim such terms. It was a genuinely very positive and accepting group of people, tho we wouldn’t hesitate to correct or call each other out when we had made a mistake/done something wrong. It was surprisingly healthy and lovely, and while much of my time with that musical I now look back upon and cringe, Nesbit’s Ninnies, while imperfect, is certainly an odd sort of bright, positive memory.
Thank you for expanding my knowledge of her story Kaz. You, as always, have done a wonderful job.
You should turn this into an essay this is a beautiful insight
@@stahppls2293 That’s very kind, thank you! I’ll think about turning it into an essay, though my comment already kinda is one in length lol :D
I saw it on Broadway with the original cast and loved it, especially the musical score in the songs. But as someone who had read the book several times, my one disappointment was how they reduced Evelyn to just two vaudeville-style musical numbers. I understand that she was ancillary to the Coalhouse-Mother-Tateh centered plot as it was written in the musical. So I remember wishing that they just cut her role altogether instead of marginalizing her so much.
@@larrydirtybird I haven’t read the book but it’s very nice to know she’s treated decently. I was really touched by the musical in other aspects but this… having known Evelyn’s story and being a victim myself it’s just sad, but our history is always rewritten for us. It hurts, it’s inexcusable, but it’s true I don’t know a girl who hasn’t had their story butchered. I am just glad the history the original author relayed was closer to the truth. It makes me feel a little better this morning to hear that. Thank you.
@@faithg7750 , well, just so you know, Ragtime doesn’t tell a recounting of the events of her life. Ragtime uses historical figures from that time as characters in fictional scenes. It makes them characters in the story. Kind of like in the 1997 movie Titanic, Molly Brown was a character, but obviously, in real life, there was no Jack that she gave a tuxedo to.
In Ragtime, Evelyn is given a massage by Emma Goldman, freeing her from her corsets Obviously that never happened in real life. In the novel, Evelyn meets a poor Jewish immigrant from Eastern Europe and becomes attached to his daughter and wants to become a mother figure for the little girl. All of that is fictional, but Evelyn is treated as a very warm-hearted person who’s trying to find herself and her own sense of womanhood.
I am a simple woman. I see Kaz Rowe upload a new history video and I will drop everything (including office work) to watch it.
🤝 idk who these people are but I’m about to find out idc
Kaz’s story telling is unmatched
Did the same exact thing when I saw the new video post lmao
Same
This is the way.
Gosh she was so angelic and ethereal. She looked like an immortal fairy and she didn't deserve the life she got handed. Hope she's in peace now
That's what I thought too. I remember seeing all of those pics of those rich wealthy ladies in fancy dress costumes with custom-painted backgrounds, yet they all looked very artificial. However, the beauty of Evelyn just elevates her photos to another level.
So many horrible, traumatizing things happened to her :(
Thank you for giving her and her story the respect and authenticity it deserves
Poor Evelyn was victimized by so many around her, it’s terrible she had no one looking out for her. The way she describes her assaults were just heartbreaking. Sad that stuff like this still goes on.
If it wouldn't take attention away from the horrible trauma and tragedy the victim endured, one might have called this "The Tale of Two R*pists." Or stalkers or whatever you wanna call it. Because that's all they are and all they should ever be known for.
👏👏
Totally agree
Just because Stanford was so accomplished and built the popular architectures that still remain in New York- I think it's a disservice for Evelyn that the structures are still named after Stanford.
This is why women need to be able to make decisions for themselves!! This poor woman just was at the mercy of two terrible men and had no power to escape!
And a bullshit mom
Gender is irrelevant when raised by abusers. Abusers teach victims to stay victims, and scars them for life even if the victim can finally move on to becoming a survivor.
@@tirsden Considering this was in the 1900s. Gender plays a huge role since women had little anatomy. And a poor girl at that. Class as well plays into this since two wealthy men, having blinds eyes being turn away from them due their power and status in society. Everything intersects.
@@tirsden I feel like given the time period, her being a woman is even MORE relevant… a poor woman at that..
@@tirsdenwomen couldn’t have bank accounts on their own until the late 70’s. Gender has absolutely everything to do with this.
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but as a transmasc nonbinary, I really appreciate the non gender specific language you use in your videos!!!! Not to mention in general your videos are incredibly informative and nuanced. Thank you for your videos!!
@@mungous1000 it costs nothing to keep hateful and outdated thoughts to yourself
@@mungous1000 you are unironically subscribed to jimmy kimmel, who are you to describe someone as a “freak”?
@@mungous1000 Oh no, here comes the scary boogeyperson, on their way to unbinary your gender! Run, Forrest, run!
@@mungous1000 do your parents know you are misusing your screentime yet again?
@@mungous1000 nerd
Her story has always made me so sad. I’m glad she found independence and artistry in her later life.
I really appreciate how you present the information on any of your topics without sensationalism and with respect. You paint such vivid pictures of the past without glorifying it or putting people on a pedestal. With Evelyn Nesbit it seems like people really just wanted the juicy bits, then and even now. The 1950s movie seems so terrible, especially since Evelyn was still alive!
I have just seen another video on this lady today, having never heard of her before. A fascinating story. I'm glad that both you and the other channel chose to treat her story with respect, as you say it's a shame she was not shown any during her lifetime.
Can you drop the other video here?
@@larsnyman2455ruclips.net/video/hTLy1PZDuIE/видео.html it's not as in depth. But covers the case and Evelyn's life quite respectfully
@@larsnyman2455 i'm guessing it's the recent, feature-length video essay on the channel Grave Explorations.
@@dendroleon yes I had never seen the channel before. A nice coincidence, that I was recommended it the same day as Kaz bought out her video.
What's interesting is that Stanford White was featured on a few episodes of the HBO series "The Gilded Age," as the builder for the Russell family. They're basically a fictional take on the Vanderbilts.
I'm REALLY intrigued to see if the show will explore Evelyn and this situation in a future season.
It would be really compelling to watch the fallout from that scandal, and see its impact on society and various characters connected to both Evelyn and Stanford.
Except Stanny never designed for the Vanderbilts, Biltmore, Marble House, The Breakers and Alva's Fifth Aenue house were all designed by William Morris Hunt. White did design a very larg recreation complex for John Jacob Astor -the one who die on the Titanic - at his estate on the Hudson. I used to be a wedding venue - I think the Clinton's daughter was married there.
I'm watching this video five feet from a photo-postcard of Miss Evelyn that sits on my bookshelf, as a reminder that no life is what it appears to be on the surface. Thank you so much for bringing her story into the light, and may her memory be for a blessing. (And it wasn't lost on me either that you're posting this on a day R. Kelly's victims are getting some measure of justice for more or less the same awfulness that everyone shrugged off re Stanford White. Never say we aren't making at least some progress.)
Older wealthy powerful men preying on young women. Victim blaming. Nothing has changed. Thanks for another great video
While this type of narrative is unfortunately present today, the brave women who have spoken up have improved the way we view assault and abuse as a society.
I’m an art history major and did a some research about Evelyn Nesbit some time ago so I would like to thank you for being so kind and fair with your portrayal of her.
Evelyn is such an inspirational person. It is amazing that she never grew bitter against all the people that used and abused her. She sounds like such a kind and lovely woman, that kept on trying to make the best out of all those horrible situations, time and time again!
I always heard of the “Gibson girl”, but I had no idea who she was. Thank you for making this video! It was very informative. It’s so sad that she lived such a tragic life.
While I recognized the name, I can't say I recognized the story. Poor woman, that is a seriously rough road she walked.
Edit: ah yes, it's always what a woman/feminine presenting person wears, says or does that's at fault, not the man who does the action 🙄
I'm somewhat gobsmacked she kept going for so long, if naught else I applaud her determination to keep going despite all the crap that kept being thrown her way
Our host is a dapper dresser, & an enthralling informative narrator, 10/10.
Kaz! I have to get this off my chest whether you see it or not.
Last week I landed on the wiki page of Evelyn Nesbit which took me down a hyperfixation rabbit hole researching the Victorian and Edwardian eras.
At the same time, I was dogsitting so I had a lot of free time to sit around and and sew. I like to watch (moreso listen) to youtube videos while I sew, so I hopped on and one of your videos was recommended to me.
I’ve done some rough math and in the week since then I’ve watched around 14 hours of your content, which is a bit embarrassing to admit, but it was just what I needed. You’re a phenomenal storyteller and I’m endlessly inspired by the topics you choose to present.
And today you post a video about Evelyn! Just a nifty coincidence that I felt the need to share. :)
Evelyn Nesbit deserved so much better.
I love the pomegranate tie pin!
Is that a shout out to Rosh Hashanah this week? Shana Tovah!
Another excellent video.
I always feel so horrifically upset over what Evelyn went through, and over all the many other people who've suffered similar events.
Thaw reminds me of Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver. Desperately wanting “justice” against the “degenerate” men who cause misery, while being oblivious to the harm he himself causes.
Poor Evelyn. Apart from the murder, I've been through a worrying amount of the same things she suffered, and it breaks you. She was right when she said the tragedy is that she lived. Surviving what she went through is a life sentence.
Poor Evelyn. Her life was absolutely traumatic and so few people knew the truth about her
I love the Musical Ragtime, but i hated the way they treated Evelyn's character. She was a child exploited and the musical uses that as a joke. And the musical is wonderful otherwise, they had no excuse to do that
I just played Evelyn in Ragtime, and after learning what truly happened to her it really rubbed me the wrong way. Like, at least it helps to keep her name and memory alive, but honestly in the worst way possible :(
My gosh the horrible life Evelyn lived. My heart goes out to her but she never gave up after all the horrible and tragic things she went thru she kept fighting and that imo showed how strong she was.
This is the perfect channel for this story. I'm so glad you told her story with the care and fairness Evelyn deserves!
As a rape survivor, i can understand evelyn all too well. This is why we often dont go to the police. Reliving the experience is often as bad as the experience itself.
thanks again for another thoughtful deep dive into the thorny thicket of popular culture. I first encountered Evelyn's story as a kid from a cast recording of the musical "Ragtime," a depiction not far off from the horrible 1950s movie you mentioned. thank you for doing her better justice than she received in her day.
you're doing amazing work, please keep it up!
For more information on this story, read my friend, Dr. Paula Uruburu's book, "American Eve," or Paul Baker's "Stanny, the Gilded Life of Stanford White." Both are excellent!
American Eve was a great book, I included it in this video’s sources section 😊
It’s the 3rd citation in the video.
Thanks to folks like Kaz, we can shake hands with those no longer with us, & finally hear some old truth,
so she was groomed as a child, ppl blamed her grooming on her, sick. nice. love when we just don't consider age at all as a society sometimes.
thank u for the video and doing her justice
Thank you so much for this video!!! I learned of Evelyn from a video at my library I believe it was called "Trial of the Century". I had 4 sons and now I have several granddaughters. The eldest is 15 and she IS a child in a brand new adults body. I thought of her when you mentioned Evelyn was being manipulated by two adult very rich very powerful predatory men and it sent a shiver down my spine. I think Evelyn was a remarkable woman and I'm not sure that there are many who could have faired better in her circumstances.
The costumes, the background, the thoroughness of the mysterious, exciting, but always fascinating subject matter! All A+++. The fact that it all is heavy on the LGBTQ themes is the cherry on top! So glad I stumbled onto your content!
Jesus Christ this poor girl. Ok I take back the White being a creep thing. He is so much worse. Both of the men are. They are monsters.
Evelyn was caught between the worst people. That poor girl. For girl she was . She wasn’t even out of her teens when this went down. Oh my heart goes out to her.
The funny thing is, I know who Evelyn is and what she looked like, but had no idea who the hell her abusers were. People remember her name and her pictures and her life and not theirs. She outlived them in every sense.
Stanford White though was one of the preeminent Architects of the time and though few of his buildings survive, in architecture circles he's still known. There are still a few of his homes and grand cottages designed by him for the newly wealthy families looking to secure status in the same way as old money families. He was a hugely talented architect, establishing a number of important styles in America. I feel sad that he was also a shit and an abuser of young women, but he did treat Evelyn kindly in a way that no one else did, and as she said, "Stanny was lucky, he died. And I lived." Though tragic, he was the only man she loved. My heart breaks for her being treated
as a commodity by so many and especially as practically hardly older than a young child.
@@lamoinette23 Anecdotal but I think Evelyn is more well-known than White considering the Gibson Girl is almost synonymous with her and people know what she looked like as a result.
@@vs6584 Thank you, I most certainly knew the image of the Gibson girl but I did not know it was Evelyn, in fact I did not know her to be a real person at all until 2 weeks ago. Stanny introduced her to Gibson, who made her the quintessential Gibson Girl. I knew Stanford White from Historic Preservation classes, from the firm, McKim, Meade and White. Didn't know anything else about them until 2 weeks ago.
This poor woman. She's like Helen of Troy. Her beauty made into a curse.
What a woman. I hadn’t heard of her before, but this was very interesting to learn about. It really touched me emotionally in a way. Thank you for this video
Oh my god yes! This was the case that got me into history when little. Her story was so sad. Thank you for bringing more light to it
Kaz + true crime = my dream come true. We get respectful story telling, impeccable research as always and of course my fave RUclipsr
Thank you so much for this Kaz. Evelyn Nesbitt has been someone I’ve admired for years and I’ve hoped someone would do this kind of deep dive into the events you’ve covered. She was so beautiful and certainly left her mark! I just wish her life hadn’t been so horrible. Thank you Kaz❤️
I’ve always wanted to learn more about Evelyn, so thank you for putting the time + research into making this! Also completely off topic but your outfit is 👌👌👌👌
Poor Evelyn... That's heartbreaking. I hope bringing more attention to the real story does some justice to this poor woman.
When you said you are going to talk about her *second* assault, that's when I started tearing up.
One that took place over two weeks straight within a secluded castle. That’s horrible
I just had the opportunity of playing Evelyn in the musical “Ragtime,” and would just like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for telling her story. I have grown so fond of her through my exploration into her character, and feel so deeply for her tragic circumstances. So happy that videos like this keep the TRUE STORY of Miss Nesbit’s terrible circumstances and her memory alive. ❤️
I love how conciencious you are with trigger warnings. Just... spot on and thank you.
OKAY OMG I was just visiting the Allegheny Observatory here in Pittsburgh and one of their telescopes is named after the Thaw family. Our tour guide related this same story and said that the Thaw family wanted to distract from the scandal/ make sure they weren't solely remembered for this incident. The Harry's siblings donated a bunch of their money to the observatory to preserve their family's legacy, thus we have the Thaw telescope. Thanks for the video, Kaz!
"This telescope is dedicated to the family of the man who abused a woman who had already been abused by another man, then murdered that first abuser and wondered why the world thought him a lunatic." - the plaque, or what it should be.
Awesome video Kaz! I really appreciate your humanization of Evelyn - something I often notice missing from other portraits of her. People have a tendency of portraying her as this calculating, mercurial woman who knew exactly what she was doing and "would do whatever it took to remain in the spotlight, even if it meant 'ruining' the lives of good men along the way", or you'd have the Ragtime musical's interpolation of her (I have not read the novel or seen the movie versions, but from what I've heard, she's more of a background character-- in the book she's only mentioned by name, although I cannot speak to the accuracy of either); she is portrayed as an airheaded ditz, extremely flighty-- as if you're meant to laugh at her and wonder how she is able to remember to breathe in order to stay alive. (Not surprisingly, there's often an undercurrent of misogyny to these depictions of Evelyn.)
kaz’s wardrobe is always amazing. i’m desperately searching for a pomegranate tie
By letting people know about who she really was, really helps her story also. Thank you for telling her story!✨
I'm probably going to have to watch this again after work, but I couldn't resist clicking on it now.
I noticed the stuffed Tutter mouse in the background and suddenly realized I missed a whole history point! I went back and caught up but I just had to shoutout one of my favorite little anxious blue characters. Excellent decor as usual!
Also I want to shoutout how well I think you handled a series of delicate topics. It's strangely refreshing to hear someone not want to focus on the more intense details. Not only is there plenty of warning for anyone who needs it, but you're just sharing facts; it doesn't feel like your enjoying a gossip session. Thank you for your tact, I'm sure Evelyn appreciates it as well.
I never mourn the death of a rapist or child abuser, but I did feel outrage and exasperation at the phrase "he ruined my wife" like FFS sake when will we finally stop evaluating women based on their virginity?
Thank you for sharing this story! This was heartbreaking, the way Evelyn was abused and mistreated her whole life. I hope she found peace at the end.
Your gallery wall is absolute goals. Want that victorian librarian look.
I’ve felt such a connection to her story since learning she was the inspiration for Anne Shirley. I love how she ended her life as an art teacher. I’d like to think she found peace.
I think you just helped me identify the model on a very old post card I have. Thank you so much for telling her story, the more I watched the more I realized it was definitely her.
The choices I’ve made and the way I’ve acted when being with abusive men is so far out of my character, things I can’t even imagine myself doing now I wouldn’t blame her if she went insane and k worded them both
was thinking this; wouldn't have blamed her at all if she was the one to shoot White after what he did
Firstly, Stanford White had a hell of a stache. Secondly, holding out hope for an eventual video on Franz Kafka, mainly because I've been reading his diaries.
This is a wonderful video. I recently worked on a production of Ragtime (the plot and message of which I have many many many problems with) and I’ve never liked the song “crime of the century”, about Evelyn’s role in Harry Thaw’s murder trial. She is painted as having a secret affair with Stanford white and being delighted with all the drama and attention she’s getting from the trial. One notable line is “Stanny’s killed but my mother’s thrilled, ‘cause now I’m the girl on the swing!” Never sat well with me. Thank you for making this video about the real girl behind the sensation (and the technician group chat from the show also likes it :D)
This is a tragic tale well told.
"Gibson Girl" sounds more like a curse than anything.
Another wonderful and informative video! I feel so sad for E Nesbit, she suffered so much and was so terribly used by everyone around her. Can you imagine the sheer determination it took for her to keep going? I'll definitely look into her autobiographies.
oh this is INREDIBLE! as always you talk about diffucult topics with such sensitivity - i adore your work
thank you so much for always giving us wonderful and educational videos, they're really great
You are becoming one of my favorite and most soothing RUclipsrs
Partially because I do love the way your handling certain topics and partially because you're just covering interesting cases of themes - I do love your videos.
This is a terribly soul crushing experience. I endured my older brother handing me nake dad and afraid . Thank you for the story of strength and courage. She is a story of so much courage much loved and sounded like
Thank you for telling this story accurately. Like you said in the video so many retellings of this story don’t do justice to Evelyn Nesbit and continue the long tradition of blaming her for what happened to her. Finally people are telling her story the way it really happened.
Such a sad story. That poor little girl.
I've heard the Evelyn Nesbit story before, but never like this. I love your humanity.
A well voiced documentary.. Explaining Evelyn's side for a change.. Nice one Kaz.
I’ve been interested in Evelyn’s life ever since I first read Ragtime in 1983, when I was 15 years old. When she became a human trophy for New York’s most powerful men, I was the same age as she was, just a high school kid. I tried to imagine myself in that situation. Unimaginable.
Every few years I rediscover her and look at all those beautiful old photos. I wish that her relationship with John Barrymore could have been allowed to continue. They were the about the same age, equally attractive, and seemed to have a genuine affection for each other. It was a natural romance, not a calculated abusive one where she was just the pawn of White, Thaw and her mother.
I hope one day they make a movie or a Netflix or Hulu series where they do her life justice.
Anyway, this is my favorite line from Ragtime: “And though the newspapers called it ‘the trial of the century,’ Emma Goldman knew that it was only 1906, and there were 94 years to go.” 😂
Hey, you should do a video on Emma Goldman! What a life. The two volumes of her autobiography are fascinating. You should read them if you never have.
This poor woman. I hope wherever she is, she knows someone out there is speaking the truth and doing justice by her name.
I love the hole set up of this story. I did not skip to the different times because I wanted to hear the entire story. It's unfortunate that a story of rape and murder has to be censored, utterly ridiculous. I was not familiar with the story and I am more than sure there are many like them just not as widely covered as this was money power and fame. Well done if u plan or have done other such stories I would love to hear them. All of them no skips
This is a terrific post and historically accurate. Great job. Not every history post on RUclips is this good. For what it’s worth on Monday May 20, 1895 Stanford White held a party where a 16 year old girl Susie Johnson popped out of a pie surrounded by a flock of canaries. At the party was Charles Dana Gibson, Nikola Tesla and Augustus Saint-Gaudens. Interestingly enough it appears Alice Roosevelt seemed to imitate Evelyn Nesbit’s look and style. The two were the same age, had similar features and both enjoyed being the center of attention.
I never heard of Evelyn Nesbit before watching this video and have to agree her resiliency is inspiring. Thank you for sharing her truth ♡♡♡
Thank you for telling this story with Evelyn and general thought and compassion in mind
thank you for such a nuanced depiction, it was fantastic. I appreciate the warning and the timestamps because I sometimes watch youtube with my kid and she does not need to hear everything, so that's really cool for a completely different reason than planned, I know.
I got to write about this story and do research on it for a book! It's such a tragic story and one that is too easily romanticized, hope Evelyn is resting well wherever that may be.
I literally just finished watching "The Girl on the Red Velvet Swing" and I also hated it. It's odd that Evelyn was involved in the production since it romanticized her story rather than showing the horrible use and abuse of her by all adults in her life including two much older sexual predators. Perhaps, that was the way she preferred to think of that period of her life, rather than the tragic reality of it. Both White and Thaw were despicable and her mother was a disgrace as a mother.
A couple of bits of trivia: McKim, Meed and White designed the original neoclassical part of the Minneapolis Institute of Arts, the iron gate of the White estate is now outside of Mercyhurst College (Erie, PA), and in 2016 I did a painting of Evelyn Nesbit, adding her to my powerful/legendary women of history series.
Hey! Super late to the party but I LOVED this video! I read Ragtime in college and thoroughly enjoyed the discussion it stirred up in our class. Your historical synopsis was brilliant and added even more context to a subject I forgot I loved so much! Thank you 😊
What I love about this channel is that you dig into deep history. This isn't a story I ever see talked about personally, and I appreciate the chance to get to learn new stories.
However horrifying they may be.
Discovered your channel about 6 hours ago and have been watching your videos the whole time . I love the amount of detail and sensitivity you use with each topic, your content feels like a podcast with cool outfits and pictures i love it sm!!
I always enjoy your video essays. Even through the disgust you have with some of the actual material, you can see the passion you have for the subject matter. Thank you and keep up the good work
I love history!! I spend alot of time alone pusuing my interests. My life was always like this, even as a child. Early in the mornings I scroll through RUclips, with my cup of coffee..for some reason I find myself looking for certain subjects in History. I've done lots of research on the Holocaust. Somehow I stumbled upon this channel! Just my good luck!
You had details I had not heard before. I remember seeing a picture of thaw dinning in his cell tablecloth and formal table setting with food from Delmonico's. That always made me shudder. Well done!
My favorite subplot in the Musical Ragtime is her trial! Plus arguably one of the top five songs in the show is "Crime of the Century"
Why, in this world of algorithmic life, does RUclips insist on continuing to notify me about my hated monarchy (when I have repeatedly flagged that I don't want to hear about it) but didn't tell me there was a new Kaz Rowe?
Wow. Wow. Just wow. I was in tears hearing her story. Love your channel so much! Thank you!
Very sad. Stories like these make me very protective of my daughter