I am familiar with the Evelyn Nesbit story (Girl on the Red Velvet Swing - both a book and a movie starring Joan Collins) and the Stanford White murder committed by Harry Thaw. I was surprised, however, to see several new photos of Evelyn especially and the lavish or even garish interior of White’s home. It is a well done video. Thanks for posting.
I worked around the corner from Gramercy park for years. I took many lunch time walks around the park. Never realized White lived there. Informative, engaging documentary. Thanks.
Clip 4:02 On the fireplace mantel, you can just see a model of the statue of Diana by sculptor Augustus Saint-Gaudens. The full-size guilt copper statue was on top of the Madison Square Garden’s tower designed by McKim, Mead & White. It was at the time considered a bit of risqué piece and didn’t meet the approval of many New Yorkers. The second smaller version of tower's statue that replaced the original now resides at the Philadelphia Museum of Art.
I remember the movie. Joan Collins played Evelyn Nesbit. Supposedly he had a swing in skylight room, and he would push her to the top. What a story. Fascinating to see the actual rooms. Thanks Ken.
This story was also used in the movie Ragtime with Evelyn Nesbit played by the actress who played the Countess of Grantham in Downton Abbey, Elizabeth McGovern.....I think it was her first big acting credit.
The swing was actually in a building on the roof of a Studio of Augustus St. Gaudens. It was on 24th st..Broadway toSixth Ave..Not far from the old Madison Square Garden
The brilliant 1981 movie Ragtime has one of its story lines based on the murder of Stanford White and trial of Harry Thaw, which may be of interest to those who found your excellently crafted video informative.
You folks remember the movie "Ragtime", with Howard Rollins ("In The Heat Of The Night") and the last theatrical performance of James Cagney, you are telling your age. I don't think any young whipper snapper know anything about this movie. Because of the main subject, topic, theme of the production, I researched Stanford White the very next day (1981). It authenticated Howard Rollins' character's frustration.
I saw the movie "Ragtime" when it came out (the music still gives me chills). Agree with everything you mentioned. Seeing it certainly got me interested in ragtime music, Stanford White, and everything Harlem Renaissance. Rabbit holes... I wish I could see it again. (James Cagney & Howard Rollins were remarkable.) It seems like there's a version with the wonderful Audra McDonald and Brian Mitchell Stokes. Is it available for streaming or purchase on DVD or CD even?
As an American cultural historian, I was quite familiar with the sordid details of White's career and assassination and what came out in its wake. But I had never seen interior views of his home -- as pretentious as he was. So thanks for this episode which broadened my knowledge of this overblown period of our social history.
Pretentious as viewed by the modern eye. It was sophisticated splendor befitting a talented artist and architect who at least earned his money and appreciation as an artist. His private life not withstanding.. he was not the only man at this day and age to prey upon young impoverished women.. All of the powerful, wealthy men did, and had done for centuries. Samuel Pepys, the 17th century english diarist, writes often of trying to seduce young women, especially actresses, he even wrote those entries in a code (latin) so as to keep them secret, and describes one attempt to seduce a young actress where she defends herself by stabbing him with a sharpened hair pin. We are shocked by the behavior (somewhat) but it happened over and over again by the abuse of power wealthy men had. And yes, this late gilded age/end of Victorian era style is harsh to our eyes, but again.. it was the height of sophistication of it's day, modeled after the great and powerful english upper classes who traveled to Rome, Greece and (modern day) Croatia and Turkey on their grand tours.
Of interest is the story of Gramercy Park and its change over time. Your history shows it wasn't a consistent upper-class district where the houses were each limited to one family and its servants, as was originally intended, but over time also had rooming houses, college clubs (not just Princeton's, but Columbia's), and a Y. After years as a backwater, it's recently re-emerged as one of the most expensive areas in Manhattan.
It was not mentioned in this video but when Harry Thaw got out of the hospital, he ended up getting arrested again for nearly whipping a 19 yr old boy to death. He was very scary and had done the same thing to his ex wife in the past. Although Stanford White did do many things wrong IMO, the part of the story that was not told was that Evelyn Nesbitt ended up confessing later that Stanford was the love of her life and Harry Thaw's family made her say many things on the stand.
Thaw was a creep who resented White's stature in society and blamed him for being blackballed from a club. Character assassination of the architect was Thaw's defense strategy.
I read that they promised her a fortune if she fibbed about her relationship. In one video, it mentioned to make ends meet, she and her mom both worked in retail at one time. I am guessing modeling paid more. I read once she was once a Gibson girl. I think she was a Coca Cola model as well.
Harry use to also use money as cigarettes. He was a very disturbed man. But he also helped an Italian American teen with legal fees with she killed her abusive uncle in the 20's.
Every time a house comes up that I want to tour, I learn it’s been torn down. What a shame. My own house in PA is more than 300 years old; I have more than 21 copies of different deeds going back to when it sold for 100 pounds.
He needed a license for that mustache!! I was aware of the story (as mentioned below); it was part of the plot of the film Ragtime. Actress Elizabeth McGovern, which most will recognize as Lady Cora Grantham from Downton Abbey, played Evelyn Nesbitt in one of her early roles. White had certainly built himself a house of cards, which had he lived would still have (in my opinion) resulted in scandal. I love your choice to avoid censorship or other trouble with RUclips by quoting Mark Twain!
Stanford White's great granddaughter, Suzannah Lessard, wrote a book called, "The Architect of Desire: Beauty and Danger in the Stanford White Family". It is an interesting book written from the point of view of a descendant of White on the shame he brought on the family and how it has filtered down through the generations. White was a gifted Architect, but his carnal appetite took over his life.
>"carnal appetite took over his life"< Sounds like JFK, RFK, Bill Clinton and a few other politicians. If the Kennedy brothers hadn't been killed there would have been a big scandal, eventually. If that car accident with Ted/Ed Kennedy (where that girl drowned in his car) han't happened in the Hyannis Port area, I doubt if it could have been hushed up. Also -- Clinton's problems followed him from Arkansas. I am surprised that he got elected.
Fascinating. I knew about the Evelyn Nesbitt/ Harry K. Thaw aspect of it. I didn't know that Stanford White had taken advantage of other very young ladies, no surprise there. Even though I read about the story, I didn't realize that he left his wife in massive debt. I love the antique instruments in the music room.
Ever consider Stanford White faked his death to avoid paying his debts ? According to this video Mrs. White only repaid 10% of the debt. That's a 90% profit.
Another informative & well-produced look at a historic figure & home. Saw somebody else's video about White's Long Island (?) getaway - not half as detailed as this video, just pretty pictures. Thank you so much for your time and effort 👍🏼
Excellent video. White: magnificent architect, rather horrible person. Obviously, the women who thought of Harry Thaw as a protector of them didn't know about his sadistic treatment of (at the least) his wife.
My great great grandfather, Dr. Graeme M. Hammond, was one of the three defense expert “alienist” witnesses in Thaw's 1907 trial. Hammond was well known in NY social circles and had a successful practice. His home had the same gilded age cluttered style as White's, which today looks hideous.
Stanford White pillaged European houses of their interiors and more for pennies on the dollars then sold them for a profit to his clients. So, probably what the video shows is a storefront for his interior design business. Hence the cluttered look.
Stunning architecture by any standard by a brilliant if troubled architect. A very interesting individual, for certain. I did see the Evelyn Nesbit story, which was a shocker.
If you want to see an accurate portrayal of Stanford White’s murder, there is also a Milos Forman movie named “Ragtime” that has a portion of it dramatizing the event (it’s also the basis of the Broadway musical of the same name)
You should make a video about 173 Adams Street Milton MA. My dad grew up in the victorian home and there's not to much we know about it. There are many people who have stayed there who swear its haunted. Its a very cool house and it would be great if you could make a video about it so we can learn more about the history.
The Girl in the Red Velvet Swing is an interesting movie about the Nesbit/White/Thaw triangle affair. While it isn't as graphic as today's films and takes a few minor liberties with the story, it is extremely accurate.
Evelyn Nesbitt (and her mother) were not exactly totally innocent either, not that White wasn’t monstrous. But she had been posing nearly nude for many artists for several years already and she was a popular model. Plus her mother was pre-occupied and seemed to think artists were above that sort of thing. Bad stuff all around, and it’s true that White, uh, stole her innocence but it was prior to her marriage to Thaw. Thaw was resentful of New Yorkers and NY society in particular who hadn’t welcomed him into elite circles or clubs.
Evelyn Nesbit was a chorus girl in the Tenderloin District when she met Stanford White which was considered at that time to be a prostitute. In other words she was a call girl White spent sums of money on including putting her and her mother up in a hotel. Thaw was most likely gay and Nesbit was his bread.
Good point. White pillaged European houses for their interiors and more for pennies on the dollar then resold them to his clients for a profit. So, what the video shows is more likely a storefront for his interior design business.
His personal life of being a groomer has overshadowed his architectural creativities. His hunger to stuff his home with over indulgence may have been to satisfy his wife from finding out his backroom life....
Stanford White's murder was an occasional topic of conversation in my family during the 1950's and early 1960'. A Great Uncle of mine was there in NYC when it happened. Details were not shared other than it was an illustration of the lowness of high society.
Stanford White was no peach I'm sure, but Thaw was a thoroughly dispicable man who was a mean spirited bully whose arrogant ego was so touchy that it tipped him into unstable madness that reupted in ungovernable violence against any one who he felt slighted him in the least. His killing of White came a long time after White and Evelyn Nesbitt's relationhship had ceased and was more likely motivated by White's blocking Thaw from an upper class club, something which he had smouldered over ever since. The use of his wife as the excuse for the murder contrived by Thaw had been very successful in other cases where "the unwritten law" as it was called at that time had gotten many husbands, fathers and brothers aquitted for killing men for assaulting or molesting their wives or loved ones. The Thaw family exerted all the influence their money could buy knowing that without the defense they employed Thaw wouldn't have stood a chance at evading the gallows because there were too many witnesses and White was well liked while Thaw was barely tolerated due ro his obnoxious and unacceptable personality. However, Thaw and his family got extremely lucky ( insert a subtle bit of eye rolling here) with the Judge's light sentence on the grounds of insanity as that was not a widely accepted or used defense at the time. Thaw was extremely abusive to Evelyn both verbally and physically and according to her own statements his family strongarmed her into testifying not only when she did not want to, but also making the allegation very lurid in detail. Many suspected the other young women who came out of the shadows were "encouraged" to do so by his very wealthy family also. There is some credence to this as at that time the women coming forward could mean social siberia for them as well as their families if they were middle class and if poor could end employment possibilities. All would have nothing to gain by doing it, but unwelcome notoriety and grief for which getting jutice or retribution would have offered little incentive, however money could help them start better lives elsewhere. Evelyn Nesbitt's excessively cruel and cold treatment by Thaw's family afterward is quite telling and I think lends credence to the aforementioned suspicions as did her own later statments that alluded to their coercion of her and that she viewed White as a friend and benefactor to her well after their physical relationship was over..
Well his brownstone was badass, can't believe they only got $25,000 selling off the art and antiques, it would be millions today, he was only $250,000 in debt which is a lot back then, but really not unheard of or insurmountable. If he wasn't such a creep and lived, I think he would have got himself out from underneath it, sad that his poor wife was left with his debt and demented legacy
it was in a small brownstone house, no. 22 on west 24th street.. only quite recently it had fallen into disrepair and was torn down. one wonders what happened to all of his interior belongings etc., probably removed long ago.
I'm from Pittsburgh. The Thaw trial was STILL talked about (By my grandparent's generation) into the 1970s! (Mostly agreed that THAW was RIGHT!)😲 Thaw AND Nesbit were both from the Pittsburgh area. Additional "Fun Fact": H.H. Richardson designed one of Pittsburgh's most famous buildings: The Allegheny County Courthouse & Jail. For a New York story, Lotza Pittsburgh connections here!
He changed the whole interior of the house with loan money, kept it from his wife, didn't pay the landlord the rent, had an affair with thaw's wife, and got murdered for it & never repaid the loans, leaving all the mess to his wife. What a winner!
Probably more to the surface story given in this video. Stanford White ran an antique business from his trips pillaging European houses for pennies on the dollar then selling them to his clients for an exorbitant mark-up. So, what you see in the apartment is his inventory of his side interior design business.
Messed up! I put together a list from what RUclips offers me as I scroll down. I put video's in that got good click bait, not ashamed to say. If it looks interesting it makes the cut. I will go all the way down sometime's, to the end of the scroll that is offered to me. Then I will promptly go on about my business. I'm renovating my house, alone. Sometimes I sit down to smoke. And at those times I may actually see and hear what I programmed to play. But even on smoke breaks I sometimes won't pay attention because I'll pull up FB and scroll there. Who knows how much of these Video's are being digested by my consciousness as I work. I generally put video's from RUclips on my TV as a sort of background noise. Seldom watch 75% of what it says I watched though. I also do what you said too, I will jump to the next video when I sit down if I'm not liking the sound of the content or the cantor of the person reading, or even when they get AI to read it and it keeps pronouncing the words wrong. But also I will often put a list together for playing while I sleep. Point is I don't even come close to watching all the videos it claims I watched, and that's a messed up thought.
"We might think of celebrities as having perfect lives.." Um, I don't. I think that a "celebrity" having a "perfect life" (or even a NORMAL life) Is certainly RARE! Not really sad that this one is gone. Just an ordinary block with a dark past. The Gramercy Park Hotel IS a nice building in its own right!
White's life isn't a dark secret. The story of him, Thaw and Nesbit is well-known, and was even made into a film in the '50's, and was again related in the film "Ragtime" in 1981.
In the skylit conversation, is there a circle medallion of some type hanging from the metal-looking ceiling fixture that has a boy figure on it? What is that?
As I have heard and read many accounts on the murder of SW, even as it was played in movies (Ragtime and The Girl in the velvet swing), it seems that he was not such a depraved man and EN was a former “model” for many men before, and when the murder happened Stanford had long stop his relation with her, though he was interested in her as a friend. So I don’t think he deserves to be taken as a rapist, more so if you consider that the statements were made by a not very trustable women still married to an unstable and very rich man.
Evelyn Nesbit was a chorus girl in the Tenderloin District which at the time was considered a prostitute or in White's case a very expensive call-girl. Actors' reputations were no better. Nesbit also considered herself an actor.
Ad Hominem logical fallacy describes the confused summation of a topic or person’s work based on their personal nature. In this case- the historical regurgitation of a genius’ work is yet again overshadowed by things irrelevant to his contributions. Not helpful for people looking for actual history.
Many men cannot keep themselves faithful to their wives, but to then leave an incredible debt to his wife, makes me unsympathetic to his murder and I celebrate his murderer! His home was a masterpiece but only a billionaire could afford to live this way. I understand that he was probably very envious of his extremely wealthy clients and he wanted to live even better than they did, but it’s not right what he did to get there.
Although I don't know much about this guy I would have arguably say that most of the women who were dealing with him knew what he was like but in order to save their reputations I think they lied about who he was and what he allegedly did to them
You omitted that Nesbitt was extremely manipulative and later admitted lying to her husband about Mr. White, not that any were arbiters of morality. You must be liberal.
Just did some research on what you said. I cannot find anything about your claims. Making things up to have excuses for a groomer. You must be a republican.
I always disliked the gilded age style of interior design. They were attempting mimicking the grand style of places like Versailles, the Palazzo Vecchio or the great palazzi in Rome. They failed. You need vast interior spaces to make this look regal rather than just unbearably cluttered. You rarely saw the 23 chairs and 4 tables in a salon in a Venetian palace you see in the small rooms filled with ornate furniture in this video. It didn’t help that natural light was scarce in these rooms due both to taste for heavy, dark window drapes and the need to insulate windows with them in winter. A finely sculpted or carved fireplace in a room where the fireplace is the focus and restraint rules everywhere else can be lovely. Alternatively the elements around windows and doors can be the focus and restraint everywhere else. If every foot of floor and wall is crawling with carved stone and wood it’s not regal. It’s tasteless.
White pillaged European houses of their interiors for pennies on the dollar reselling them to his clients for a profit. So, probably what is shown is a storefront for White's interior design business.
but they actually did! you have to pay attention. They revealed that he was a groomer and left his wife with massive piles of debt when he passed. did you watch 3 seconds of this video before trolling down in the comments?
Stanford White’s mustache needs its own zip code
😂🤣😂🤣
Or maybe it’s own area code😂
Wasn’t it great…Wonder what Mrs White thought about it?
WOOOOOOOOO!!!🥳
Walrustache!
His hands actually did, so to speak, where he carried on his extra marital affairs.
I am familiar with the Evelyn Nesbit story (Girl on the Red Velvet Swing - both a book and a movie starring Joan Collins) and the Stanford White murder committed by Harry Thaw. I was surprised, however, to see several new photos of Evelyn especially and the lavish or even garish interior of White’s home. It is a well done video. Thanks for posting.
I worked around the corner from Gramercy park for years. I took many lunch time walks around the park. Never realized White lived there. Informative, engaging documentary. Thanks.
Clip 4:02
On the fireplace mantel, you can just see a model of the statue of Diana by sculptor Augustus Saint-Gaudens. The full-size guilt copper statue was on top of the Madison Square Garden’s tower designed by McKim, Mead & White. It was at the time considered a bit of risqué piece and didn’t meet the approval of many New Yorkers. The second smaller version of tower's statue that replaced the original now resides at the Philadelphia Museum of Art.
Isn’t there another at the met?
Yes, there is. I’ve seen both. My understanding is the one in Philadelphia was placed on top of the Madison Square Garden tower.
I remember the movie. Joan Collins played Evelyn Nesbit. Supposedly he had a swing in skylight room, and he would push her to the top. What a story. Fascinating to see the actual rooms. Thanks Ken.
This story was also used in the movie Ragtime with Evelyn Nesbit played by the actress who played the Countess of Grantham in Downton Abbey, Elizabeth McGovern.....I think it was her first big acting credit.
Grandma Evelyn passed in 1967.
The swing was actually in a building on the roof of a Studio of Augustus St. Gaudens. It was on 24th st..Broadway toSixth Ave..Not far from the old Madison Square Garden
@@robertmchugh2248 Thanks for the correct info, so fascinating.
The brilliant 1981 movie Ragtime has one of its story lines based on the murder of Stanford White and trial of Harry Thaw, which may be of interest to those who found your excellently crafted video informative.
Yes, the murder scene in Ragtime is riveting!
You folks remember the movie "Ragtime", with Howard Rollins ("In The Heat Of The Night") and the last theatrical performance of James Cagney, you are telling your age.
I don't think any young whipper snapper know anything about this movie.
Because of the main subject, topic, theme of the production, I researched Stanford White the very next day (1981). It authenticated Howard Rollins' character's frustration.
@@claydobbins9342 I'm showing my age, 77, and I've also seen "The Girl on the Red Velvet Swing," another telling of White's story in 1955.
I saw the movie "Ragtime" when it came out (the music still gives me chills). Agree with everything you mentioned. Seeing it certainly got me interested in ragtime music, Stanford White, and everything Harlem Renaissance. Rabbit holes...
I wish I could see it again. (James Cagney & Howard Rollins were remarkable.) It seems like there's a version with the wonderful Audra McDonald and Brian Mitchell Stokes. Is it available for streaming or purchase on DVD or CD even?
As an American cultural historian, I was quite familiar with the sordid details of White's career and assassination and what came out in its wake. But I had never seen interior views of his home -- as pretentious as he was. So thanks for this episode which broadened my knowledge of this overblown period of our social history.
Pretentious as viewed by the modern eye. It was sophisticated splendor befitting a talented artist and architect who at least earned his money and appreciation as an artist. His private life not withstanding.. he was not the only man at this day and age
to prey upon young impoverished women.. All of the powerful, wealthy men did, and
had done for centuries. Samuel Pepys, the 17th century english diarist, writes often of trying to seduce young women, especially actresses, he even wrote those entries in a code (latin) so as to keep them secret, and describes one attempt to seduce a young actress where she defends herself by stabbing him with a sharpened hair pin. We are
shocked by the behavior (somewhat) but it happened over and over again by the abuse of power wealthy men had. And yes, this late gilded age/end of Victorian era style is harsh to our eyes, but again.. it was the height of sophistication of it's day, modeled after the great and powerful english upper classes who traveled to Rome, Greece and
(modern day) Croatia and Turkey on their grand tours.
Of interest is the story of Gramercy Park and its change over time. Your history shows it wasn't a consistent upper-class district where the houses were each limited to one family and its servants, as was originally intended, but over time also had rooming houses, college clubs (not just Princeton's, but Columbia's), and a Y. After years as a backwater, it's recently re-emerged as one of the most expensive areas in Manhattan.
Don't forget The Players (club).
0p
It was not mentioned in this video but when Harry Thaw got out of the hospital, he ended up getting arrested again for nearly whipping a 19 yr old boy to death. He was very scary and had done the same thing to his ex wife in the past. Although Stanford White did do many things wrong IMO, the part of the story that was not told was that Evelyn Nesbitt ended up confessing later that Stanford was the love of her life and Harry Thaw's family made her say many things on the stand.
Thaw was a creep who resented White's stature in society and blamed him for being blackballed from a club. Character assassination of the architect was Thaw's defense strategy.
Stanford White liked 'em
young. I am surprised that
he didn't run afoul of other
men (fathers, brothers, etc.)
I am sure many fathers and brothers were glad he died sadly.
I read that they promised her a fortune if she fibbed about her relationship. In one video, it mentioned to make ends meet, she and her mom both worked in retail at one time. I am guessing modeling paid more. I read once she was once a Gibson girl. I think she was a Coca Cola model as well.
Harry use to also use money as cigarettes. He was a very disturbed man. But he also helped an Italian American teen with legal fees with she killed her abusive uncle in the 20's.
Every time a house comes up that I want to tour, I learn it’s been torn down. What a shame. My own house in PA is more than 300 years old; I have more than 21 copies of different deeds going back to when it sold for 100 pounds.
Cool
He needed a license for that mustache!! I was aware of the story (as mentioned below); it was part of the plot of the film Ragtime. Actress Elizabeth McGovern, which most will recognize as Lady Cora Grantham from Downton Abbey, played Evelyn Nesbitt in one of her early roles. White had certainly built himself a house of cards, which had he lived would still have (in my opinion) resulted in scandal. I love your choice to avoid censorship or other trouble with RUclips by quoting Mark Twain!
He was red headed.
Stanford White's great granddaughter, Suzannah Lessard, wrote a book called, "The Architect of Desire: Beauty and Danger in the Stanford White Family". It is an interesting book written from the point of view of a descendant of White on the shame he brought on the family and how it has filtered down through the generations. White was a gifted Architect, but his carnal appetite took over his life.
Very good book.
Just looking that up. Sounds fascinating
>"carnal appetite took over his life"<
Sounds like JFK, RFK, Bill Clinton
and a few other politicians.
If the Kennedy brothers hadn't been
killed there would have been a
big scandal, eventually.
If that car accident with Ted/Ed
Kennedy (where that girl drowned
in his car) han't happened in the
Hyannis Port area, I doubt if it
could have been hushed up.
Also -- Clinton's problems
followed him from Arkansas.
I am surprised that he got
elected.
Just the kind of book I enjoy reading. Thanks!
Very interesting. His indiscretions are literally the only reason I knew his name.
Fascinating. I knew about the Evelyn Nesbitt/ Harry K. Thaw aspect of it. I didn't know that Stanford White had taken advantage of other very young ladies, no surprise there. Even though I read about the story, I didn't realize that he left his wife in massive debt. I love the antique instruments in the music room.
Ever consider Stanford White faked his death to avoid paying his debts ?
According to this video Mrs. White only repaid 10% of the debt. That's a 90% profit.
Absolutely fascinating. Thank you.
Another informative & well-produced look at a historic figure & home. Saw somebody else's video about White's Long Island (?) getaway - not half as detailed as this video, just pretty pictures.
Thank you so much for your time and effort 👍🏼
Excellent video. White: magnificent architect, rather horrible person. Obviously, the women who thought of Harry Thaw as a protector of them didn't know about his sadistic treatment of (at the least) his wife.
His wife and later the naked boy he brutally beat.😮
Probably Thaw was gay using Nesbit as his beard.
@@vincentgoupil180 Thaw seems to have been bisexual and a sadist. On top of being crazy.
Very enlightening. I’m wondering if The Gilded Age dares to go into this in future episodes.
Love NYC and Gramercy Park. Fascinating to learn the details of one of rhe houses built in that area. So well done!
I worked many years at the Stanford White designed
The International Tennis Hall of Fame in Newport Rhode Island Absolutely beautiful.
My great great grandfather, Dr. Graeme M. Hammond, was one of the three defense expert “alienist” witnesses in Thaw's 1907 trial. Hammond was well known in NY social circles and had a successful practice. His home had the same gilded age cluttered style as White's, which today looks hideous.
So your ancestor and S. White had the same taste - more than 100 years ago. Think what your descendants will say about your taste 100 years from now.
funny comment and good point.@@johnwollschlager9827
He may have even gotten his own antiques as kickback “gifts” from the vendors for his clients jobs. 😂
Stanford White pillaged European houses of their interiors and more for pennies on the dollars then sold them for a profit to his clients. So, probably what the video shows is a storefront for his interior design business. Hence the cluttered look.
It would be a dream to travel to Europe to study ancient architecture and then begin a prominent career designing homes for the wealthy!
you wouldn't want to build a home for yourself.. and the family you might want, one day? It might be meaningful if you asked yourself why.
These homes were hideous
I'm thinking a series for Ken's channel, Houses of Scandal or maybe Scandalous Houses.
Nah. It seems they all have a scandal involved.
Never knew about any of it. Guess what?? I do now. Very interesting. Thank you👍🏼
Loved the music room!!
Great Job!
Stunning architecture by any standard by a brilliant if troubled architect. A very interesting individual, for certain. I did see the Evelyn Nesbit story, which was a shocker.
Thank you So MUCH, for doing this #1❤️💋🏡🇺🇲
This was fascinating. I never knew about this back story. You do great research.
Very interesting video, as usual.
That was one of your best storytelling’s. Quite the story
If you want to see an accurate portrayal of Stanford White’s murder, there is also a Milos Forman movie named “Ragtime” that has a portion of it dramatizing the event (it’s also the basis of the Broadway musical of the same name)
You should make a video about 173 Adams Street Milton MA. My dad grew up in the victorian home and there's not to much we know about it. There are many people who have stayed there who swear its haunted. Its a very cool house and it would be great if you could make a video about it so we can learn more about the history.
The Girl in the Red Velvet Swing is an interesting movie about the Nesbit/White/Thaw triangle affair.
While it isn't as graphic as today's films and takes a few minor liberties with the story, it is extremely accurate.
I saw it on TV many years ago, and was surprised that such a story, an older man seducing an underage girl, had been filmed as early as 1955.
Yes, most interesting and information totally new to me, and I thought I was quite familiar with his work.
good effort. i like any video that uses real voices
Very surprised. Very interesting
Evelyn Nesbitt (and her mother) were not exactly totally innocent either, not that White wasn’t monstrous. But she had been posing nearly nude for many artists for several years already and she was a popular model. Plus her mother was pre-occupied and seemed to think artists were above that sort of thing. Bad stuff all around, and it’s true that White, uh, stole her innocence but it was prior to her marriage to Thaw. Thaw was resentful of New Yorkers and NY society in particular who hadn’t welcomed him into elite circles or clubs.
There is a video of an older Evelyn singing in the 30's.
Evelyn also dated John Barrymore. There are rumors that Stanford paid for her to abort John's kid.
Evelyn Nesbit was a chorus girl in the Tenderloin District when she met Stanford White which was considered at that time to be a prostitute. In other words she was a call girl White spent sums of money on including putting her and her mother up in a hotel.
Thaw was most likely gay and Nesbit was his bread.
Did White use the whole building as his residence? Or what part? I seemed to have missed that?
Good point.
White pillaged European houses for their interiors and more for pennies on the dollar then resold them to his clients for a profit. So, what the video shows is more likely a storefront for his interior design business.
I had read about him being killed but not why. Dreadful. I feel horrible for his wife.
That was a very interesting and horribly sad twist!
thank you!
I'm just sorry that White's home was demolished.
His personal life of being a groomer has overshadowed his architectural creativities. His hunger to stuff his home with over indulgence may have been to satisfy his wife from finding out his backroom life....
Harry Thaw was gamey looking.
The Stanford White scandal was included as a sub-plot theme in E L Doctorow's novel, Ragtime. The movie of the same name is pretty good.
Too bad she had to pay back his debt. It sounds like he ruined many lives...
According to the video only 10% of the debt was paid. That's a 90% profit margin.
Didn’t care for any of the rooms shown. Way to overdone and gaudy.
How come you missed the best part? The room with the red velvet swing?
Stanford White's murder was an occasional topic of conversation in my family during the 1950's and early 1960'. A Great Uncle of mine was there in NYC when it happened. Details were not shared other than it was an illustration of the lowness of high society.
Way too much, of course, that was the style among the rich, at the time.
An excellent bio here on RUclips: "Treasures of New York: Stanford White."
Stanford White was no peach I'm sure, but Thaw was a thoroughly dispicable man who was a mean spirited bully whose arrogant ego was so touchy that it tipped him into unstable madness that reupted in ungovernable violence against any one who he felt slighted him in the least. His killing of White came a long time after White and Evelyn Nesbitt's relationhship had ceased and was more likely motivated by White's blocking Thaw from an upper class club, something which he had smouldered over ever since. The use of his wife as the excuse for the murder contrived by Thaw had been very successful in other cases where "the unwritten law" as it was called at that time had gotten many husbands, fathers and brothers aquitted for killing men for assaulting or molesting their wives or loved ones. The Thaw family exerted all the influence their money could buy knowing that without the defense they employed Thaw wouldn't have stood a chance at evading the gallows because there were too many witnesses and White was well liked while Thaw was barely tolerated due ro his obnoxious and unacceptable personality. However, Thaw and his family got extremely lucky ( insert a subtle bit of eye rolling here) with the Judge's light sentence on the grounds of insanity as that was not a widely accepted or used defense at the time.
Thaw was extremely abusive to Evelyn both verbally and physically and according to her own statements his family strongarmed her into testifying not only when she did not want to, but also making the allegation very lurid in detail. Many suspected the other young women who came out of the shadows were "encouraged" to do so by his very wealthy family also. There is some credence to this as at that time the women coming forward could mean social siberia for them as well as their families if they were middle class and if poor could end employment possibilities. All would have nothing to gain by doing it, but unwelcome notoriety and grief for which getting jutice or retribution would have offered little incentive, however money could help them start better lives elsewhere. Evelyn Nesbitt's excessively cruel and cold treatment by Thaw's family afterward is quite telling and I think lends credence to the aforementioned suspicions as did her own later statments that alluded to their coercion of her and that she viewed White as a friend and benefactor to her well after their physical relationship was over..
Well said.
Evelyn Nesbitt is the original " Girl on a red velvet swing" .
She was beautiful
This is like a Nero Wolfe novel.
WOW!
Developers ruin everything
Well his brownstone was badass, can't believe they only got $25,000 selling off the art and antiques, it would be millions today, he was only $250,000 in debt which is a lot back then, but really not unheard of or insurmountable. If he wasn't such a creep and lived, I think he would have got himself out from underneath it, sad that his poor wife was left with his debt and demented legacy
90% of the debt was repaid. That's a 90% profit margin. Not bad.
Where was his "playroom" with the red velvet swing.?
it was in a small brownstone house, no. 22 on west 24th street.. only quite recently it had fallen into disrepair and was torn down. one wonders what happened to all of his
interior belongings etc., probably removed long ago.
I'm from Pittsburgh. The Thaw trial was STILL talked about (By my grandparent's generation) into the 1970s! (Mostly agreed that THAW was RIGHT!)😲 Thaw AND Nesbit were both from the Pittsburgh area. Additional "Fun Fact": H.H. Richardson designed one of Pittsburgh's most famous buildings: The Allegheny County Courthouse & Jail. For a New York story, Lotza Pittsburgh connections here!
It was June 25th not July 25th.
I think the woman was very beautiful.
He changed the whole interior of the house with loan money, kept it from his wife, didn't pay the landlord the rent, had an affair with thaw's wife, and got murdered for it & never repaid the loans, leaving all the mess to his wife. What a winner!
He was dying with Sexual Transmitted Disease too.
The affair pre-dated the marriage to Shaw.
Probably more to the surface story given in this video. Stanford White ran an antique business from his trips pillaging European houses for pennies on the dollar then selling them to his clients for an exorbitant mark-up.
So, what you see in the apartment is his inventory of his side interior design business.
Messed up! I put together a list from what RUclips offers me as I scroll down. I put video's in that got good click bait, not ashamed to say. If it looks interesting it makes the cut. I will go all the way down sometime's, to the end of the scroll that is offered to me. Then I will promptly go on about my business. I'm renovating my house, alone. Sometimes I sit down to smoke. And at those times I may actually see and hear what I programmed to play. But even on smoke breaks I sometimes won't pay attention because I'll pull up FB and scroll there. Who knows how much of these Video's are being digested by my consciousness as I work. I generally put video's from RUclips on my TV as a sort of background noise. Seldom watch 75% of what it says I watched though. I also do what you said too, I will jump to the next video when I sit down if I'm not liking the sound of the content or the cantor of the person reading, or even when they get AI to read it and it keeps pronouncing the words wrong. But also I will often put a list together for playing while I sleep. Point is I don't even come close to watching all the videos it claims I watched, and that's a messed up thought.
"We might think of celebrities as having perfect lives.." Um, I don't. I think that a "celebrity" having a "perfect life" (or even a NORMAL life) Is certainly RARE! Not really sad that this one is gone. Just an ordinary block with a dark past. The Gramercy Park Hotel IS a nice building in its own right!
White's life isn't a dark secret. The story of him, Thaw and Nesbit is well-known, and was even made into a film in the '50's, and was again related in the film "Ragtime" in 1981.
In the skylit conversation, is there a circle medallion of some type hanging from the metal-looking ceiling fixture that has a boy figure on it? What is that?
Almost all the Gilded Age houses in New York City have been torn down. :-(
8:24 - Like Lynn..
As I have heard and read many accounts on the murder of SW, even as it was played in movies (Ragtime and The Girl in the velvet swing), it seems that he was not such a depraved man and EN was a former “model” for many men before, and when the murder happened Stanford had long stop his relation with her, though he was interested in her as a friend. So I don’t think he deserves to be taken as a rapist, more so if you consider that the statements were made by a not very trustable women still married to an unstable and very rich man.
Exactly! Nesbit was very free spirited and said she was pressured to exaggerate on the stand. She continued seeing him after the alleged assaults too.
Evelyn Nesbit was a chorus girl in the Tenderloin District which at the time was considered a prostitute or in White's case a very expensive call-girl.
Actors' reputations were no better. Nesbit also considered herself an actor.
Love the mushstache. Hate the decor.
Ad Hominem logical fallacy describes the confused summation of a topic or person’s work based on their personal nature. In this case- the historical regurgitation of a genius’ work is yet again overshadowed by things irrelevant to his contributions. Not helpful for people looking for actual history.
The first “Murder of the Century”
Wow, what a monster!
His house looked good 10 ideas ago. Garish to the point of being simply an overdecorated cake
Some folks say that White had some big balls... Although it's been confirmed that they were exactly the same as everyone else attended.
Many men cannot keep themselves faithful to their wives, but to then leave an incredible debt to his wife, makes me unsympathetic to his murder and I celebrate his murderer! His home was a masterpiece but only a billionaire could afford to live this way. I understand that he was probably very envious of his extremely wealthy clients and he wanted to live even better than they did, but it’s not right what he did to get there.
👍
The Rich and the Sordid. How could it not lead to murder?
Although I don't know much about this guy I would have arguably say that most of the women who were dealing with him knew what he was like but in order to save their reputations I think they lied about who he was and what he allegedly did to them
Stanford White was a sick puppy 😮
Evelyn Nesbitt went on, if true, he was a monster.
Read "Ragtime" ELDoctorow
You omitted that Nesbitt was extremely manipulative and later admitted lying to her husband about Mr. White, not that any were arbiters of morality. You must be liberal.
Just did some research on what you said. I cannot find anything about your claims. Making things up to have excuses for a groomer. You must be a republican.
I wonder if these folks would have ever invited an actual Italian to their home?
🤟🏻👍
I’m not saying what he did was right in any way. But where in the world was her parents?
I read RAGTIME about 25 years ago.
Horrifying crimes and craven criminal.
I probably deserve some credit for this
credit for what?
Me, too. I think I stayed up all night for this project.
He seemed to have good taste in women (girls), except for his wife.
What the hell is on his silly face?
I always disliked the gilded age style of interior design. They were attempting mimicking the grand style of places like Versailles, the Palazzo Vecchio or the great palazzi in Rome. They failed. You need vast interior spaces to make this look regal rather than just unbearably cluttered. You rarely saw the 23 chairs and 4 tables in a salon in a Venetian palace you see in the small rooms filled with ornate furniture in this video.
It didn’t help that natural light was scarce in these rooms due both to taste for heavy, dark window drapes and the need to insulate windows with them in winter.
A finely sculpted or carved fireplace in a room where the fireplace is the focus and restraint rules everywhere else can be lovely. Alternatively the elements around windows and doors can be the focus and restraint everywhere else. If every foot of floor and wall is crawling with carved stone and wood it’s not regal. It’s tasteless.
White pillaged European houses of their interiors for pennies on the dollar reselling them to his clients for a profit. So, probably what is shown is a storefront for White's interior design business.
I never heard of his perv activities.
Every delite I learn about has an evil past involving children and worse, so I'm not surprised. He was a groomer.
have you considered not using these ai upscaled images? they're kind of distracting, and almost certainly not detail-accurate anyway
What AI upscale images? And yes, I know what AI is!!! All I saw were photographs and a painting of this wife!
His taste was all in his mouth
But u did not reveal anything. Clickbait.
but they actually did! you have to pay attention.
They revealed that he was a groomer and left his wife with massive piles of debt when he passed.
did you watch 3 seconds of this video before trolling down in the comments?
You spend one minute on the "dark past" 👎