UPDATE - I WAS RIGHT FOR ONCE!!! There has been an update to the aircraft: Fixes: - High engine thrust at idle - Reverse power too strong - Transponder in ALT freezes altimeter - Weather Radar low brightness - Strobe lights not volumetric - Pressurization System Logic (Slow depressurization with automatic mode) - EFB Autoload not working Note: The autoload will not load the GPS option, It will always start with the WT GTN530 Changes: - Density on torque table and density on FF table - Flap induced and parasite drag - Empty weight moments of inertia (pitch, roll and yaw) - Parking Brake and Chocks logic (PB lever is now linked with the SimVar) - Condition Levers (Condition Levers lever is now linked with the SimVar) - Warning sound and timer - Momentary ignition and start switches timer - Windshield scratches reduced - Windshield shade size reduced - Increase normal map for exterior/interior textures - Documentation (Added AC/Pressurization page)
Yes its fixed, just did a flight from Schipol to Duxford, and the buttons are all mapped correctly as well, A very Well done BR Sim Designs for extremely rapid delivery. And also looking forward to the TDS 750 intergration in the next update!
Blindside: Affirmatron, Sir; that's my understanding as well. Low="Ground" idle, and High="Flight" idle.... So you taxi, etc, in ground idle and y'go to flight idle right about the time you're rolling over the piano keys, ready for T/O. -Jon
I did a video on turbo-props on Sunday. It turns out (for specific engines) the real-world operators very rarely use high idle. In reality it doesn't change the behaviour of the engine that much - just a few percent. It does cause more stress, more temperature, and higher fuel flow though - for not much gain.
hi idle is used on ground for 2nd engine start on battery, for simultaneous use of inercial separator and air conditionig for ex, or when needed to prevent hi itt temperatures
Good video! Congratulations!!! But I have only one comment for help: Embraer 120 Bandeirante, Embraer 121 Xingu, Pilatus Porter PC-6 and some others turboprops like theeses, you need to taxi with condition levers in LOW IDDLE, power levers all way back, and control taxi speed only with propeller levers, beetwen feathered and full rpm, to maintain the proper taxi speed. With the aircraft linnedup to takeoff, you place condition levers to HIGH IDDLE, propeller levers to full RPM and, only then, you’ll touch in power levers to full power. After touchdown, power levers to reverse, and after, immediatelly, condition levers to LOW IDDLE and propeller feathered, until achieve, the proper taxi speed.
I found some discussions online where real King Air and Bandeirante pilots weighed in on it - about the specific engine types used - and in the face of all the armchair sim experts - said they very rarely use high idle. If you test it in the sim, it doesn't actually give you that much increase in power - but it does drink fuel, and stress the engine.
As far as taxiing in turbo props, 99.9% of them it’s standard to leave the condition lever in low idle, this is exactly what it sounds like, an idle position. Has no effect on top end thrust. Also taxiing in Beta is also normal at low idle, to keep the airplane from accelerating. BETA is intended for ground ops. If your in low idle on approach it should also come down easier. Leave them in low idle unless cross generating an engine start
Yep - I found an interesting discussion online with real turboprop pilots stating to the simmers arguing with them that they very rarely use high idle.
That thing looks absolute lovely, has a FLAWLESS ultrahigh-polygon high quality cockpit and cabin modeling with zero visual glitches, and the most beautyful golden illumination at night I have ever seen. That thing is pure gold for GA just like the Flysimware Cessna 414 Chancellor, and has the potential to be made study-level easily. But what defines "study-level"...... there is no clear definition for that. All this tons of gorgeous golden illuminated analogue gauges seem to be functional flawless, so maybe the next step to study-level might be adding system failures, freezing fuel, electrical failures, turbine overheating, a few functional circuit breakers - such details.
Check the video from BRSim Designs EMB-121 Landing. It looks like - to manage the speed they are playing with the prop rpm (lowering). Not as we used to do prop full forward and with flaps and gear it will decel. No idea but it might be indeed a special "thingi" for this plane IRL too.... Even with higher sink rates, plane does not accelerate. And as others mentioned already -taxi lo idle is common for turbo. Thanks for the video.
Believe me, I tried several methods of slowing it down. Afterwards I went and looked at how turboprops actually work to figure it all out - I did a video with the black square king air to demonstrate. It cleared up a lot :)
When I taxi this, or any other aircraft like this, I always slowdown using the condition levers and the reverse thrust. It works fine for m e with this aircraft as well.
Apparently in the real world, operators of King Airs very rarely use high idle. I tested it - it doesn't make a huge difference to the power output - but it does stress the engine a lot for not much return (which I guess, is why the real aircraft don't use it).
Hello Jonathan, great intro video as usual, some things do need clearing up though, firstly propellar levers are not throttles, they are just that propellar levers, the fuel levers are called condition levers and if the aircraft is using PT-6 turbines, they do not need to go to high idle unless and only unless you need to start another engine or for the airconditioing on the ground whilst waiting to start another engine then reducing them back to low idle, again, high idle is not used even for take off, the engine fuel managment system takes care of that, finally the throttles are called power levers and are there to manage the power settings of the engines.
regard the start button its a spring loaded button so its correrct it dont remain on start but the light should go on util 45%ng when it disengage! and unfortunatelly you missed to film and monitor the most important parameter on star, the itt, just after action the fuel lever to low!! thanks for the review im already installing the game hehehe
I bought this sight unseen, mainly as its a twin PT6, you have hit on everything I also discovered but I still really like it, I think the positive forward thrust is quite common with a PT6 but also think perhaps its a little overdone as you could almost take off given a long enough runway. Lets hope they do an update to get buttons mapped e.g parking brake and tone down those over zealous engines a tad. The manual notes this is compatible with the 750 head unit but I could not find anywhere to change it from the GNS 530. Great review as always :)
Is there any aircraft available in between this and the ATR. Been waiting for a 20-40 pax turboprop like the saab340, EMB120 or JS41 or similar. B1900D would be great as well.
@@jonbeckett yeah steam gauge king air is a nice plane. But still waiting on something like this, heard rumors the Saab was in the making somewhere. Anyway great video, emb110 is a great plane for now for me
Interesting review of the aircraft, nice to see people reviewing the not so common offerings in flight sims. However, it would be a good idea to understand the PT6 family of engines more thoroughly, how a turboprop works, how the condition and prop levers affect the engine, before criticizing the thrust model too much here. I see a number of user errors in your review. High idle on the ground would only be used really to start the second engine without external power, to provide extra power on startup, and to run the AC systems on the ground if particularly hot. Furthermore, high idle is helpful also for full reverse thrust on landing to reduce the spool-up times. Other than that, high idle is not necessary for normal operations (it does not command greater thrust on take off, only reduces the spool-up time on takeoff, like reverse thrust for landing), and is counterproductive on taxi. Look at the N1 speeds at high idle, that is a lot of thrust being produced. Low idle and beta range is what you need to maintain control during taxi. The way to slow down in a turboprop in the air (as they are often very slippery planes in flight, see the Dash-8 Q400, King Air series, Beechcraft PT6 Duke, Fairchild Metroliner etc) is to reduce the rate of descent, pull the thrust levers to flight idle and move the props to full fine, the prop discs acting as huge spinning airbrakes. This is the reason you generally do not reduce the thrust levers to idle on final approach in a turboprop, as the slow speed and flat pitch causes the planes to drop out of the sky... now, there may be an issue with the coupling of thrust and drag in the plane in MSFS that might need tweaking. But understanding the turboprop power plant better will improve your experience of such aircraft in sims.
@@jonbeckett And a really informative video at that! Good job. A real help for people new to the world of turboprops keeping it simple! It is easiest to view the condition lever in the KA series asessentially a three position switch on a slider. High and low idle are just two baseline torque settings, in order to stop the engine from mushing when too much load is demanded (such as on ground use of AC, opposite engine assisted engine start up without a GPU cart), or to reduce the spool-up times on use of reverse thrust on short-field landings.
Just to add, this is not true for all turboprop variants, the Garrett-powered or Pratt & Whitney (-8 Q400 e.g.) aircraft are configured differently. The engine design is different though.
8:50 My dad was EMB121 Pilot/Instructor... im pretty sure u don't taxi on High Idle... almost all turboprops u operate in ground idle til the moment u set for take off then u bring it to high idle.. as soon as u land u will bring It back to ground idle or Low Idle whatever its called... ruclips.net/video/maWFVRzO3Qk/видео.html check this video of a real start on an EMB121... when u open the fuel during any Pratt and Whitney engines is usually to LOW idle or Ground Idle ( I don't remember how its called, the only turbo prop I flew in real life was GARRETT engine.. a Turbo Commander) Im not sure how this EMB121 software is working... but im pretty positive that the condition levers should be back during ground opr not full forward like that... but I might be wrong too.... its being 12 years that I just fly A320 lol
Looked to me when you said the aircraft was taxiing to fast for idle the condition levers were full forward. Drag them back to low idle and that should solve the problem.
It makes very little difference to it. I think it might need an update. Off the back of this, I did a video in the Black Square King Air (which has similar engines) to really understand what all the instruments are reporting. It was quite enlightening.
Yeah, what the heck is with the power? You're making that much torque with the power levers down? Try opening the inertial separators and taxiing with the condition levers in low idle?
As I understand it, it may be realistic. Remember - this plane is a "hack" of sorts - it's got Banderanti wings and engines on a lighter, smaller body...
It has the sound is the King Air MSFS sound "I'm ok with this". Geez, you set your expectations really low! I would avoid the plane like the plague if it does not "simulate" sounds properly. Let's have all single-engine planes in the sim with the default C-172 sounds lol.
Well, it is a very similar airraft to the Beech King AIr... it is about the same size as the C90, two PT6A turboprops and a high t-tail configuration. It should sound similar to the King Air... :)
UPDATE - I WAS RIGHT FOR ONCE!!! There has been an update to the aircraft:
Fixes:
- High engine thrust at idle
- Reverse power too strong
- Transponder in ALT freezes altimeter
- Weather Radar low brightness
- Strobe lights not volumetric
- Pressurization System Logic (Slow depressurization with automatic mode)
- EFB Autoload not working
Note: The autoload will not load the GPS option, It will always start with the WT GTN530
Changes:
- Density on torque table and density on FF table
- Flap induced and parasite drag
- Empty weight moments of inertia (pitch, roll and yaw)
- Parking Brake and Chocks logic (PB lever is now linked with the SimVar)
- Condition Levers (Condition Levers lever is now linked with the SimVar)
- Warning sound and timer
- Momentary ignition and start switches timer
- Windshield scratches reduced
- Windshield shade size reduced
- Increase normal map for exterior/interior textures
- Documentation (Added AC/Pressurization page)
Yes its fixed, just did a flight from Schipol to Duxford, and the buttons are all mapped correctly as well, A very Well done BR Sim Designs for extremely rapid delivery. And also looking forward to the TDS 750 intergration in the next update!
Seems to be different for each plane, but all the turboprops I’ve used have had taxi in LO idle, then HI idle only on takeoff.
Blindside: Affirmatron, Sir; that's my understanding as well. Low="Ground" idle, and High="Flight" idle.... So you taxi, etc, in ground idle and y'go to flight idle right about the time you're rolling over the piano keys, ready for T/O.
-Jon
@@jonhouston5372most proper RUclips comment I’ve ever seen.
I did a video on turbo-props on Sunday. It turns out (for specific engines) the real-world operators very rarely use high idle. In reality it doesn't change the behaviour of the engine that much - just a few percent. It does cause more stress, more temperature, and higher fuel flow though - for not much gain.
hi idle is used on ground for 2nd engine start on battery, for simultaneous use of inercial separator and air conditionig for ex, or when needed to prevent hi itt temperatures
Sometimes YT gets the algorithm right. Been enjoying your content, subbed! Thanks for the video on this little bird. I’ll be picking it up.
You're welcome :)
Good video! Congratulations!!!
But I have only one comment for help: Embraer 120 Bandeirante, Embraer 121 Xingu, Pilatus Porter PC-6 and some others turboprops like theeses, you need to taxi with condition levers in LOW IDDLE, power levers all way back, and control taxi speed only with propeller levers, beetwen feathered and full rpm, to maintain the proper taxi speed. With the aircraft linnedup to takeoff, you place condition levers to HIGH IDDLE, propeller levers to full RPM and, only then, you’ll touch in power levers to full power. After touchdown, power levers to reverse, and after, immediatelly, condition levers to LOW IDDLE and propeller feathered, until achieve, the proper taxi speed.
I found some discussions online where real King Air and Bandeirante pilots weighed in on it - about the specific engine types used - and in the face of all the armchair sim experts - said they very rarely use high idle. If you test it in the sim, it doesn't actually give you that much increase in power - but it does drink fuel, and stress the engine.
As far as taxiing in turbo props, 99.9% of them it’s standard to leave the condition lever in low idle, this is exactly what it sounds like, an idle position. Has no effect on top end thrust. Also taxiing in Beta is also normal at low idle, to keep the airplane from accelerating. BETA is intended for ground ops. If your in low idle on approach it should also come down easier. Leave them in low idle unless cross generating an engine start
Yep - I found an interesting discussion online with real turboprop pilots stating to the simmers arguing with them that they very rarely use high idle.
That thing looks absolute lovely, has a FLAWLESS ultrahigh-polygon high quality cockpit and cabin modeling with zero visual glitches, and the most beautyful golden illumination at night I have ever seen. That thing is pure gold for GA just like the Flysimware Cessna 414 Chancellor, and has the potential to be made study-level easily. But what defines "study-level"...... there is no clear definition for that. All this tons of gorgeous golden illuminated analogue gauges seem to be functional flawless, so maybe the next step to study-level might be adding system failures, freezing fuel, electrical failures, turbine overheating, a few functional circuit breakers - such details.
I like it :)
@juliashenandoah3965 What defines 'study-level'? I have a definition for you. A 300+ page manual. eg. Xtreme Prototypes GLJ Learjet 25 in P3D. 🙂
Looks amazing this. I always though full propeller pitch slows you down, increasing propellor drag per revolution
Brilliant demonstration
Love your work ❤
You're welcome :)
Beautiful Airplane....thanks Jon
Looks like quite a fun little aircraft, i quite like the look of it!
It looks lovely - bit of a handful to fly though :)
looks like the next thing ill throw my money at... great little flyer. great video also. keep it up ! respect from germany
Check the video from BRSim Designs EMB-121 Landing. It looks like - to manage the speed they are playing with the prop rpm (lowering). Not as we used to do prop full forward and with flaps and gear it will decel. No idea but it might be indeed a special "thingi" for this plane IRL too.... Even with higher sink rates, plane does not accelerate. And as others mentioned already -taxi lo idle is common for turbo.
Thanks for the video.
Believe me, I tried several methods of slowing it down. Afterwards I went and looked at how turboprops actually work to figure it all out - I did a video with the black square king air to demonstrate. It cleared up a lot :)
When I taxi this, or any other aircraft like this, I always slowdown using the condition levers and the reverse thrust. It works fine for m e with this aircraft as well.
Yep - that will work too.
Keep it in low idle on the ground. A king air will also run away on the ground in high idle. Possibly also the ground friction modelling
Apparently in the real world, operators of King Airs very rarely use high idle. I tested it - it doesn't make a huge difference to the power output - but it does stress the engine a lot for not much return (which I guess, is why the real aircraft don't use it).
Hello Jonathan, great intro video as usual, some things do need clearing up though, firstly propellar levers are not throttles, they are just that propellar levers, the fuel levers are called condition levers and if the aircraft is using PT-6 turbines, they do not need to go to high idle unless and only unless you need to start another engine or for the airconditioing on the ground whilst waiting to start another engine then reducing them back to low idle, again, high idle is not used even for take off, the engine fuel managment system takes care of that, finally the throttles are called power levers and are there to manage the power settings of the engines.
I did a follow up video about turboprops that goes through all of this :)
@@jonbeckett Yes I saw, great stuff!!! Love your videos thats why I took the time to share my thoughts. Looking forward to the next one mate!!
dont forget the inertial separators but good video as usual :)
It was a really clean runway, honest :)
regard the start button its a spring loaded button so its correrct it dont remain on start but the light should go on util 45%ng when it disengage! and unfortunatelly you missed to film and monitor the most important parameter on star, the itt, just after action the fuel lever to low!! thanks for the review im already installing the game hehehe
Bạn là 1 pilot quá giỏi.. Tôi thích cảm ơn những video clip của Bạn
Some aircraft like the king air taxi in low idle and engaging high idle for takeoff and flight after landing reduceing to low idle again
Not according to real pilots of turboprops. It's dependent on aircraft type, but many don't use high idle at all during normal operations.
I bought this sight unseen, mainly as its a twin PT6, you have hit on everything I also discovered but I still really like it, I think the positive forward thrust is quite common with a PT6 but also think perhaps its a little overdone as you could almost take off given a long enough runway. Lets hope they do an update to get buttons mapped e.g parking brake and tone down those over zealous engines a tad. The manual notes this is compatible with the 750 head unit but I could not find anywhere to change it from the GNS 530. Great review as always :)
There is a button in the tablet to toggle the radio kit.
@@jonbeckett Thank you, would have helped if I had the PMS enabled in MSaddon linker as well :)
Is there any aircraft available in between this and the ATR.
Been waiting for a 20-40 pax turboprop like the saab340, EMB120 or JS41 or similar.
B1900D would be great as well.
I don't think so. The King Air is good - but smaller than your description.
@@jonbeckett yeah steam gauge king air is a nice plane. But still waiting on something like this, heard rumors the Saab was in the making somewhere.
Anyway great video, emb110 is a great plane for now for me
Interesting review of the aircraft, nice to see people reviewing the not so common offerings in flight sims.
However, it would be a good idea to understand the PT6 family of engines more thoroughly, how a turboprop works, how the condition and prop levers affect the engine, before criticizing the thrust model too much here. I see a number of user errors in your review.
High idle on the ground would only be used really to start the second engine without external power, to provide extra power on startup, and to run the AC systems on the ground if particularly hot. Furthermore, high idle is helpful also for full reverse thrust on landing to reduce the spool-up times. Other than that, high idle is not necessary for normal operations (it does not command greater thrust on take off, only reduces the spool-up time on takeoff, like reverse thrust for landing), and is counterproductive on taxi. Look at the N1 speeds at high idle, that is a lot of thrust being produced. Low idle and beta range is what you need to maintain control during taxi.
The way to slow down in a turboprop in the air (as they are often very slippery planes in flight, see the Dash-8 Q400, King Air series, Beechcraft PT6 Duke, Fairchild Metroliner etc) is to reduce the rate of descent, pull the thrust levers to flight idle and move the props to full fine, the prop discs acting as huge spinning airbrakes. This is the reason you generally do not reduce the thrust levers to idle on final approach in a turboprop, as the slow speed and flat pitch causes the planes to drop out of the sky... now, there may be an issue with the coupling of thrust and drag in the plane in MSFS that might need tweaking. But understanding the turboprop power plant better will improve your experience of such aircraft in sims.
I recorded a video afterwards going into how turboprops work - exactly as you described - to really understand it for myself.
@@jonbeckett And a really informative video at that! Good job. A real help for people new to the world of turboprops keeping it simple!
It is easiest to view the condition lever in the KA series asessentially a three position switch on a slider. High and low idle are just two baseline torque settings, in order to stop the engine from mushing when too much load is demanded (such as on ground use of AC, opposite engine assisted engine start up without a GPU cart), or to reduce the spool-up times on use of reverse thrust on short-field landings.
Just to add, this is not true for all turboprop variants, the Garrett-powered or Pratt & Whitney (-8 Q400 e.g.) aircraft are configured differently. The engine design is different though.
8:50 My dad was EMB121 Pilot/Instructor... im pretty sure u don't taxi on High Idle... almost all turboprops u operate in ground idle til the moment u set for take off then u bring it to high idle.. as soon as u land u will bring It back to ground idle or Low Idle whatever its called...
ruclips.net/video/maWFVRzO3Qk/видео.html
check this video of a real start on an EMB121... when u open the fuel during any Pratt and Whitney engines is usually to LOW idle or Ground Idle ( I don't remember how its called, the only turbo prop I flew in real life was GARRETT engine.. a Turbo Commander) Im not sure how this EMB121 software is working... but im pretty positive that the condition levers should be back during ground opr not full forward like that... but I might be wrong too.... its being 12 years that I just fly A320 lol
Seems like a decent smaller twin engine. Not my type plane really, but doesnt seem too bad. Other than airliners, I prefer TBM type aircraft.
Propeller on the number one engine is turning the wrong direction ?
I never even noticed lol
Good stuff.
Looked to me when you said the aircraft was taxiing to fast for idle the condition levers were full forward. Drag them back to low idle and that should solve the problem.
It makes very little difference to it. I think it might need an update. Off the back of this, I did a video in the Black Square King Air (which has similar engines) to really understand what all the instruments are reporting. It was quite enlightening.
My reversers don't work. I have a key on my joystick assigned to it but no amount of depressing of it works.
I have them on the throttle axis.
Yeah, what the heck is with the power? You're making that much torque with the power levers down? Try opening the inertial separators and taxiing with the condition levers in low idle?
I suspect it needs an update - but then without seeing a real one, who knows ;)
For me, the plane that needs the most performance is more than the PMDG 737, which is a bit disappointing for me
What happens when you move the props to the lower position
Doesn't make much difference at all :)
Could you control the speed by reducing the prop speed?
To an extent. It was a bug in the initial release of the aircraft - it's now been fixed :)
which version of FS is this for?? where can i find this aircraft???
You can buy it from Simmarket.
@@jonbeckett i'll look for that ty
which version o flight simulator is it for?
they need to fix that pain
They did :)
Could it be a throttle miscalibration?
Nope - I checked it - for an hour lol
The idle thing is a non starter for me. It drives me crazy when planes start rolling at idle. Too bad. Nice looking plane.
Lots do in Rl too its not an MSFS bug
As I understand it, it may be realistic. Remember - this plane is a "hack" of sorts - it's got Banderanti wings and engines on a lighter, smaller body...
👍
Despite The Hurry up and Taxi it doesn't seem that bad of an Aeroplane realy.
Yep - it's just a handful.
Similar to how the 110 starts
Yep. Same engines :)
It has the sound is the King Air MSFS sound "I'm ok with this". Geez, you set your expectations really low! I would avoid the plane like the plague if it does not "simulate" sounds properly. Let's have all single-engine planes in the sim with the default C-172 sounds lol.
Well, it is a very similar airraft to the Beech King AIr... it is about the same size as the C90, two PT6A turboprops and a high t-tail configuration. It should sound similar to the King Air... :)
It's got the same engines :)