Differential oil change on our 2021 FIAT Panda 4x4 - surprise bung & confusing oil requirement
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2021
- Quite simply, oil is the most important thing or part of your engine and all moving parts, like the transmission and differentials !.
In my day, new cars had their oil changed after only a minimal amount of use - the reasons to me are obvious - greases, lubricants, foreign bodys, bedding in wear fragments etc etc all from the build process ( new vehicle engines can get "things" from the build process, like hair, dust, insects who knows, but 100% they have the build lubricants still there) .
With service intervals getting stupid - our Volkswagen Tcross was not requested back to the dealer for 20000km or 2 years !! - check out our change of that oil after 7K.
So we changed FIAT Panda's oil after 1600km (600 LATER THAN WE WANTED) and sending it off for testing (check those episodes out)
As we are punishing our new FIAT Panda off road, is makes sense to do the differentials and the transmission - on our 2021 Panda, the front transmission and differential are combined, so we only have one to do - winner !
The oil is a different story - having confirmed the correct grade (handbook / on line / forums etc) we purchased the correct grade from our local trade supplier - they confirmed this oil with our VIN number ..... but. ....
The photo and wording stated axle oil, no transmission mentioned ! being a fussy sort of bloke, I emailed Bilstein and received a reply as shown in the episone (pause it) stating their oil is NOT suitable for a 2021 FIAT Panda 4x4 ?? and advised the licenced and approved FIAT oil only, stating additives were the issue.
Tutela oil has arrived from Italy (dam expensive, but found at 1/2 the price on line rather than the main dealer here in Portugal - it was mental money).
Also confirmed the grade with Petronas Technical (Tutela / Selenia are their names for oils) just to quadruple check :)
So let's crack on & being novices, a surprise awaits us ......
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Hi Guys, thanks for this video! I've got a fiat panda cross myself and am looking for ways to maintain it. This channel appears to be one of the very few out there which cover the technicals, very helpful stuff!
The old boy is fussy, if nothing else :) - not a drop of substandard oil goes near his car
greeting from italy. despite many people dislike fiat cars, in my faily from the 60' we only had fiat cars and never had any big problem with them. ofcourse some component is not the best quality, but replacing it is so chep it's not a problem getting new replacement for them. and on that video u have noticed some little things that make that panda a success and why there are so many in our road. after oil change maybe u can put some blistein shocks on it :D i really love the cross 4x4 and also the 500 abarth. little car with lots of potential :D
Buona serata :)
In the UK we had an Abarth turismo, although my wife hated the exhausts (Monza) - here we had a 500c that was traded for the Panda, so I too and a massive FIAT fan.
We are surprised they have a poor reputation now, as ours have been fantastic & very reliable.
Once we finish in the dirt, we do like the idea of lowering the car on some sexy suspension and popping on some bigger wheels - giving the sport look.
I think our Panda is really well made - under the castings are all really good and look very strong, so we will keep putting it to the test - the weakest part is me !!
thanks for this video, good job. And happy new years
Same to you! thanks for taking the trouble to comment.
Good info, very useful to know where all the plugs are and that little safety bung on the rear diff would have totally thrown me!
Was a surprise to us - could find nothing about it anywhere, so took a brave pill and yanked it out :)
I was a little surprised (and disappointed) that FIAT had not done them all ? odd (I like it).
@@DrivenMadShow Yes it's a great idea just odd they did the rear diff only and not the actual gearbox?
You'd think that would be more essential to protect.
Your thorough tutorial has given me the confidence to try this myself, although I'll be crawling underneath.
We used to put 2 wheels on the highest kerb we could find - I would sip coffee and Nath would do the business :)
@@DrivenMadShow I have a slopping drive, so I build a makeshift ramp out of bricks, so with my car pointing downhill and the front end on the brick ramp, I can get quite a good space underneath to work.
I make sure everything is solid, rear wheels chocked etc and throw under anything I have like spare wheels etc as a safety precaution.
@@pdtech4524 Brave !! we started on axle stands, then found out lifts were a grand, so splashed out on one - a god send now my knee is knackered :)
Hi Guis, fiat recommends the front differential PTU also needs an oil change, to the extent of 0.4 lt !!!
it is not unique with the gearbox
Thanks for the tip 🥳
ruclips.net/video/Mglhu3VSQCo/видео.html
My Cross (2020 model) is away for its first dealer service today. Not been offroaded as much as yours but performed brilliantly in the snow here in Scotland last winter. I'm a bit reluctant working on mine untill the warranty is up but I normally do my own servicing (never had a vehicle from new before). I miss having all the workshop manual information available for the Panda like my old Defender did so greatly appreciate the maintenance content!
I have an oil obsession :) ... being an old bod, but have also been involved with cars in one way or another for decades - our fleet at work was always serviced at 500 miles from new to remove build residues (they told me that), it still makes sense to me today, regardless of oil / fluid advancement, the original oils from the build, must have some contamination.
The first oil change / inspection was always free, so I clinically believe its cost cutting not to do it and really clinically, do not think the manufacturers want their products to last or break :(
So I have not owned many cars myself, always been spoiled with company cars, loan cars or hire cars - so the manufacturer's guidelines for warranty were the ones we used (plus the cars were never kept long).
So when I braved a purchase with my own hard earned, we had already got a couple of old bangers here in Portugal and got as I call it my "man cave" - way better than I ever expected - Portugal is quite an expensive place to live, except for commercial property, Portugal has not much industry, so they are cheap to rent or buy, amazingly cheap to rent really (especially out in the sticks like ours) so we are doing a first early change and then always a mid service change (then to the main dealer for routine servicing).
So retirement gift was a lift, and here we are.
But, we are totally untrained, so you will get shown all our mistakes - we fitted control arms to my Jeep last week - one was so tough, mainly because it was upside down :) but if nothing else, if we can do it, anyone can !! (and we are having a right laugh!!)
It's a little cold here now, jeans are on as its down to 25 degrees 😎- enjoy the winter snow, not long now ..........
Once our warranty is up (or we risk it) we are going to fit new suspension (90mm drop), new turbo etc and remap to 100+ and turn it into a mini Subaru Impreza is the plan :)
Unfortunately there are no workshop manuals available for the Mark 4 4x4 unless you have access to Autodata etc.....a good source of information is the "Fiat Forum"...
Hi guys it is to do with the ash production when the oil is being particularly heavily used. Petronas in league with Fiat have a good deal going effectively ensuring you only buy their oil. I think it is a bit of a con really just to keep their expensive market share. The information tecnically on fiat 4x4s i believe is purposefully vague on purpose.
Great point, I was with you, but when I contacted two oil manufacturers (Liquimoly & Castrol) to get their oil to use, they told me to stay with Petronas and not use theirs - an engineer told me ( I know naff all) that the twin-air lube rail is susceptible to blocking and the gaskets used are also susceptible to certain additives - as you say, probably to force the use.
Hi, great standard of service saying the consumer knows naff all 😂, standard response now. I understand the point on additives they are a mystery in just about everything people buy regarding oil and similar products. I am sad to say, very cynical on any info given out by the motor industry and all its machinations in keeping the consumer tied to a particular product, it is fear producing as it ensures you use that product or face costly repairs for failing to do so. On the panda 4x4 most sites cannot even agree in the viscosity of the oil, let alone the additive content.
@@andrewreynolds2647 I am saying, I know naff all 😂 the Panda is a minefield of contradicting information - watching Top Gear, they describe the 4x4 as a Haldex type thing, the dealer assures me its not - our car did not show the classic spin and lock up that a Haldex would do, but 100% I am not. The oils made me paranoid, also a back street dealer type bod telling me twinair without dealer service history is a ticking time bomb - that's probably why I do like the 1.3 diesels :)
Very clear an helpful
Glad it was helpful! not often we are :)
Any further comments on oil specs? I’ve seen a couple of alas Italian language vlogs on the diff oil change where Motul seems the brand of choice.
That's one spoilt little Panda 👍🙂
Pete deserves it - the dust and muck we have covered him in, the paint is really good, been down a few hedges and trees, so standing up really well to it.
Lol....planned preventive maintenance......
That bung is a new one on me
And us - like the security of it - but only in one place, not on the transmission as well ? odd ....
You haven't changed the oil in the "drive transmission idler unit" the transfer box to send drive to the rear diff, its not the same as the gearbox oil, so needs changing as well m, looking forward to the video 😁👍
Thanks for the info
Hello guys.
Question, did you put the same oil in the front diff/gearbox as the one in the rear differential ?
We used Tutela Car Technyx Gear Oil 75W-85 & Tutela Transmission Cross 75W-85 API GL 5 -- for info you can check out www.augustin-group.de or buzz an email with your vehicle detail and they will tell you exactly - we found them as Tutela stuff from FIAT is £$£$£$ and they were much cheaper for the same stuff.
Oh, API is just American Petroleum Institute, which control the standards
You are an oil guru :) thanks for the info Mark
Very clear and helpful video. I changed the gearbox oil in my 2016 twinair 4x4 only yesterday with the correct fiat oil 😊. I wonder if you measured the amount of oil that came out of the gearbox and how much you used to refill ? I drained 2.2Lt out but the handbook gives the gearbox oil capacity of 1.7Lt.
I put in 1.7Lt as specified but with that amount I don't get the usual dribble of oil from the fill plug.
I have never come across a gearbox that you don't fill until its dribbling so really not sure what to do. I suspect 2.2Lt will be to dribble level but could also be overfilled.
Any thoughts ?
We always go for the dribble - we were not clever enough to put in an exact amount 😇- we did measure what came out and like you got over 2 liters - our owners manual (Portuguese) was not clear, we looked on line and that gave varied amounts - when we took out the bung, the fluid ( as I recall) was bang on dribble level ( thats first change from new) - but don't hold me to that !
To be 100% - as taking advice from two idiots like us is not recommended - go in and ask the main dealer in the parts department ( thats what we do when unsure, I ask for a price and amount needed for the vin, ask how long to get and bugger off without ordering ( Bar Mercedes, who are surprisingly competitive here, but we no longer have the ML) - we were happy with dribble level as you say, never come across anything thats not, but Fiat are an odd bunch) . I probably focused on grade over quantity.
I did get an opinion on the oils - Fiat use some odd grades, the engine has a drip type feed over the camshaft, that has very small holes, so the viscosity is vital, as is cleanliness, the twinair needs regular clean oil and filter changed or these can block. The other additives many put in, can ( not my words) cause deterioration in the seals, that was from Liquimoly, who also told me to stay with Tutela oil, so must be a well known thing in the oil world.
I got our oil here for interest augustin-group.de/oele-fluessigkeiten
@@DrivenMadShow The used car dealer I purchased the car from learnt the hard way the importance of using the correct oil in the twinair. Shortly after I picked the panda up the dreaded orange triangle of doom came on. He ended up taking the car to a main fiat agent who had to change the oil three times to clear out the wrong oil. They also changed the little filter on the twinair unit. The invoice was in the history file so I know it must have hurt his profit. All has been well since but I always order my oils myself now. Lucky in the UK we have a company that stocks the genuine fiat oils.
I did a little research and did find one example of a gearbox that does not use the dribble system. I can't remember the model but it was a Ford. Oil level should be 20mm below the fill plug !
I will phone main agent and see if I can get any sense out of the service department. If I discover anything useful I will let you know.
@@DrivenMadShow I have just had an email from our local Fiat main agent service department. They confirmed that the gearbox oil level is correct when just dribbling from the fill plug. Confusingly they also say this should be around 1.7lt. I guess they have never measured the quality drained out !
Carry on as usual.
I have been told - fact or fiction who knows - the twinair is a really strong engine, reliable and forgiving when thrashed :) other than oil, loves it, needs it and the right stuff - I think yours was caught just in time :)
Cracking - the easiest way is the drip - I have never worked on cars until retirement, Nath does 90% anyway if truth be told - only owned two Fords ( I think, Escort RS Turbo, first ever decent car, performance wise and a Sierra 1.6 estate - so a long time ago ! ) have no clue how they were mechanically, was lucky that mine (most) ( mine in the I got to use them sense) were company owned or long term loans - now I realise how expensive the buggers are to run :)
when actually it should have been the first oil change in the differential?
I’m not entirely sure on the fiat spec, but usually I change it around every 25,000km 👍
Hello from Belgium,
I own the same car (110.000 km) and I love it.
Do you know what is the function of the 2 "cast cones" that we can see (7'10") between the rear axle and the rear exhaust box ?
I had no clue to be honest - so added a photo on a Facebook Panda forum - lots of the same answer, they say; anti vibration / acoustic weights - which makes sense - well spotted, for the amount of time I have spend under the car, I never noticed them !!
@@DrivenMadShow Thank you for your answer and for your videos.
Appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment 👍🏼
Those cones are to stop the rear brakes making a noise when the car is reversing.....they are dampners....
Hi Jon and Nath.....are you sure that you used the correct oil in the transaxle i believe the correct oil is the Tutela transmission gearforce 75w oil and NOT the Tutela Technyx oil you have shown on the video? Did you change the oil in the power transmission unit (transfer box) the correct oil for that is Tutela transmission multiaxle oil and its takes about 0.6 litres of oil? Best regards, Stefano.....
Hi Stefano - don't make me panic :) - we got ours from augustin-group.com/p/tutela-transmission-cross-75w-85-api-gl-5-8281265 which is the one we put in the rear diff -- the other is augustin-group.de/p/tutela-car-technyx-getriebeoel-75w-85-8281063 - I emailed them with the car details and they did the order for me - as they did with Paddy - very different oils, the transmission oil is around 20 a litre - the rear is 50. (the said both the 2021 and 2008 use the same rear diff oils the 8281265 code - it was also interesting as Liqui Moly told me to get the 8281265 as they do not make an equivalent.
@@DrivenMadShow Hi Jon....my sincere apologies i did not mean to alarm you.....my Fiat information book states that the front transaxle takes Tutela transmission gearforce oil which is a 75w, i have 2015 cross 1.3 multijet with the 5 speed manual gearbox.....im still not sure that you have used the correct oil Jon? The oil you have used in the rear diff is the correct oil though.....yes Tutela oils are expensive in the uk, its about £65 for the 3 litres of transaxle and 1 litre for the rear diff oil, plus the additional cost of the oil within the power transfer unit which is Tutela transmission multiaxle oil.....if i were you Jon i would contact a Fiat main dealer and check ref the recommended oil for the transaxle?
I have checked the Tutela site and there is a slight difference on the specification between the Tutela Technyx and Gearforce oils?
Best regards Stefano....
Hi Stefano - no worries, only teasing - I did check to be fair, the dealer sent me a photo of the oils to use.
If you took it to an independant in Portugal, they would put in cooking fat 🤣 -
I was told by a mechanic I know here, that one Portuguese mechanic he knew, if the oil that came out of a car looked good, he put it in the next one her serviced ! - if what happened with our ML is anything to go by, I believe it !
@@DrivenMadShow hi Jon....as i said previously the two oils have a very similar specification so i can only presume that it will not cause you any problems.....you made me laugh about the cooking fat and the mechanic using the old oil.....stay safe and well......best regards, Stefano.....
On that subject, I just watched YT channel "Project Farm" ( might be your thing, a or you might already watch; chap in the US who tests odd things - very thoroughly, too thoroughly for Nath to watch !)
He just tested diesel / bio diesel / hydro diesel / veg oil / used engine oil -- all in a small engine comparing how or if they will run the engine.
Way more interesting than us :( ha ha
Kind regards
Jon
GL-5 has additives that make it suitable for extremely high pressure differentials. However, these additives can attack bronze and copper which are found in gearboxes. I'm wondering therefore if that's what's making your Febi Bilstein oil unsuitable, and is the reason why you need to stick with the specific brand recommended by Fiat. Just my thoughts.
I had a look and saw the Febi oil was suitable for the axle alone, but not for the gearbox/diff, but it did say Motul Gear 300 was suitable, for interest.
I tried three manufacturers - all said to only use the Tutela (Patronas) Fiat approved oil, stating it was additive in their oils that made it unsuitable, but could not get that expanded on.
@@DrivenMadShow It's really interesting. GL-5 is just a “gear oil” spec, it doesn’t cover transmissions. GL-5 uses Sulphur/Phosphorus additives to prevent “micro-welds” on the meshing gears. Unfortunately these also can react aggressively with bronze and copper, often found in the synchromesh rings of a gearbox. So I’m thinking the Fiat-recommended GL-5 uses different additives, and I agree with you - best stick with the GL-5 that Fiat recommends, as you have done!
Again, interestingly though, I looked at the datasheet for the Motul Gear 300 and it says it's suitable for "any type of seal and yellow material used in gearbox design", hence it's ok with copper and bronze etc. It seems a few manufacturers are now making a GL-5 that is compatible with "yellow metal". This might be why it's listed as ok with the Panda. It was £19 for a litre here in the UK, which is not cheap.
Ah, that Tutela is "GL-4+". It's a GL-4 that meets GL-5 spec, so as it's a GL-4 it won't have those nasty additives!
I paid about that for the diff oil - but the Tutela Transmission Cross 75W-85 API GL 5 was 40 euro a litre - outch
@@DrivenMadShow i paid £23 for a litre of Fiat Tutela oil for the rear diff and that was discounted.....
Brilliant stuff ..... keep up the OCD ....
Got to be the right stuff !!