Sorry for talking over each other. We are so excited! Here's the upcoming Shardcast plan: -This Wednesday: Reactions 2 -Next Weekend: Trell & Autonomy -The following Wednesday: Reactions 3 -The weekend after that: Harmony / Discord
@@Florfilm yeah I didn’t really have an issue with them. Not that they were super exciting at the start or anything but definitely most enjoyable to read at the end when they switched.
On the Set's plan with the doppelgangers, it actually made a lot of sense to me. Wax and Wayne have fought and defeated a variety of different metalborn and beat them because of their skill with their metals. So using people who have the same abilities as them, but superior, is essentially a fight they are unfamiliar with and they nearly lose in the first two fights in very believable ways because they were outmatched in their own capabilities. But yes, I also believe that Brandon wanted to show what would happen if they fought lol
To me the most relevant line regarding the Dopplegangers is Wayne telling Gertruda something like You're way worse, you actually want to be me. To me that really hit home how much self loathing he had, even more than when he referred to himself a worthless.
I think it also really drove home the point at the end that Wayne was the only choice. Even if he wanted to, Saze couldn't have, like, spiked a criminal and teleported them onto the ship to diffuse the bomb. Even someone trying to emulate Wayne was significantly worse than him with the bendalloy power. I also think it might become a relevant plot point going forward in the Cosmere. It's always struck me as very sus that the Ars Arcanum for Era 2 has always pointed out that Hemalurgy was the most interesting of the 3 metallic arts to the 17th Shard, so the fact that a hemallurgist will always be less skilled than a natural born Scadrian *should* play out as we move into the later eras.
I love when Brandon pulls a "Im bout to write the shit out of this character arc" -- the focus on Wayne reminded me a lot of the focus on Dalinar in Oathbringer in the best way. Also I lol'd when young Wayne tells him mom "are you sure you're allowed to be telling me a story like this?" precious
@@Lezzyboy87 joint and a beer? That would cancel each other out for me. Whichever one was first, the second would cancel out. But I do have a fat bowl burnin though!
The Wayne sports bit was 100% a setup to have a pro sports game be in Era 3. He suggested they change the name and add Metalborn, I wonder what noseball will be called in the future Also I'm kinda curious why Brandon really didn't utilize emotional allomancy at all in era 2 considering how important it was to era 1. He kinda hand-waved it away with aluminum hats and then never brought it up again outside of that
I don’t really agree about Wax’s arc being a retread of BoM. It wasn’t his emotions towards harmony he was dealing with anymore, it was his place and his duty as ‘the sword’, whether he could fulfill the role, whether he needed it to be happy, whether he wanted that sort of glory. The fact that his relationship with harmony went from rage to apathy is just a natural progression when someone has hurt you this badly. I actually thought his character arc was a need for him to reaffirm his choices of the last six years to put the roughs life behind him. To become sure of who he is and means to be going forward. It was truly beautiful to see and I’m glad he got that.
Hoid knows where he needs to be but he doesnt know why. I think the point of having him in this book was that the reason he had come to Scadrial during that time was to save Wax at the end, although he didn't know it at the time.
I’m so happy that the focus on Wayne in this book fits so perfectly with the Wax and Wayne pun. The lunar cycle is now complete and the most involved dad joke ever has it’s payoff.
The Bands ending up in Malwish (that's for you Evgeni) feels like Kelsier pulling a heist on the Kandra and Sazed. If that's true, it would be awesome to see it play out in a Secret History 2. It being however the Bands were drained and the planning that went into it. Kelsier and Ghostbloods stated goals were to defend Scadrial, not Elendel, not the Basin, but the planet. Kelsier doesn't trust Sazed to do the job so he's setting up the Malwish to be his instrument to do so, as Elendel and the Basin are Sazed's.
I cried like a baby when Wayne died. It was 2am and I was reading it in the bathroom so as not to wake up my Fiancé but I sobbed do hard. It was beautiful.
My introduction to the Cosmere was through Alloy of Law. I had been looking for a book to read and my friend had that one lying around. SoS and BoM had just come out at that point but I went back to read era 1 before continuing in era 2. Now, as a starting point, I did not find it that jarring. I certainly do appreciate the many era 1 references that you find throughout that first book but in my limited Cosmere knowledge, I considered them as interesting world building or they just went right over my head. It's actually sort of neat because the call backs to the characters in era 1 like the Ascendant Warrior and the Survivor were simply what they were described as in era 2 to me, mythical heroes. Reading Era 1 ended up feeling more like reading a prequel, where I got to explore the backstories of these legends mentioned in era 2. I found Brandon did a great job of explaining the magic systems to a newcomer and the action-packed scenes and great character work kept me entertained throughout the novel. Enough so that now I'm a rabid fan who spends way too much time immersing myself in Cosmere lore! It may have been different for someone who read era 2 in its entirety before jumping back to era 1. But for me, it worked!
When the Wayne clone first appeared, I thought we were witnessing some Identity shenanigans, like the girl being spiked some of Wayne's identity somehow. I think that would have been way cooler.
Yeah, I thought there was going to be something like that, or they were directly created by Autonomy or something. Instead they are just weirdos. -Eric
I actually liked lost metal even more than bands or shadows. I'm just such a sucker for cosmere stuff that I couldn't care less about a weak plot just gimmy the juice.
I thought this book was the best out of the 4, Shadows and Bands were forgettable for me (I literally forgot what happened in those books) but this book was exciting from start to finish.
I thought the title should be *Giant Infodump*. Introducing Cosmere elements, fine. Making it "The Cosmere Reunion Party" (another alternate title), not so much.
@@carl11547I kinda see what you’re saying here, but I feel like, for the Cosmere to work, this had to be this way. The Ghostbloods are all about protecting Scadrial, and it would be super weird if they didn’t show up for a world-ending threat; then you end up with the whole MCU thing where it’s like “these immortal beings have been around for centuries but for some reason never helped with important events until they were on screen.” So for the broader sake of continuity, it feels like the Cosmere references need to be there to some extent.
Evgeni, after drinking the gold, did the burning feeling in your stomach make you question, or perhaps even see, how your life could have been different had you not drunk it?
My biggest complaint about TLM is Telsin, specifically her lack of real threat. For the leader of the Set and the supposed avatar of Autonomy and Trell, she's just kinda... there? Not really doing much beyond saying some vaguely menacing things. She comes off as desperate and trapped (which I think was intentional) and almost powerless, which is a very odd choice to go with for your primary antagonist in the final book of the series. My other issue with her is that the relationship between Wax and Telsin felt underdeveloped and tacked on. We are told in the story that they have this history together, but we have never really seen it on screen. Combined with the fact that for most of the series we don't even know Telsin is part of the Set, and it makes the family drama fall a bit flat, at least to me. One could make the argument that Telsin isn't really even supposed to be that threatening in this book, but it still feels to me that she (and the Set more generally) are just sorta underwhelming compared to how they've been set up.
I started with era 2. I love alloy of law, it was my introduction to the cosmere. I was able to understand the story, the powers and the concepts without the background. Still having that era 1 background helped later to grow and expandthe knowledge as we went into the next books of era 2. Being able to understand the powers in their separate units allows me to contemplate how they can be combined. 2:18:44
Thanks for pointing out the connection of the prologue and Wayne's finale, I didn't see that until now. Also, I think I missed / forgot the part where Harmony makes Wax see the invasion of Luthadel? I listened to the Audiobook so maybe I zoned out during that time. Either way, still an amazing book and great set-up for Era 3! Hurray for more Cosmere connections!
It happens when Wax reaches the top of the Shaw after killing all of the Set's soldiers. He is physically and mentally exhausted from it, a bit angry at Harmony for making him do this, and Sazed sends him this vision to show him that he knows how it feels
Same here, the series just got better with every book. Alloy of Law I don't really care for. Shadows got decent. Bands was finally pretty good. TLM is the best.
@@wingracer1614 I more agree with the Shard Casters. This book was good, but Shadows/Bands were way better plotted and cohesive. This book was character work and Cosmere connections. Enjoyable, but draggy at times.
@@Aldric524 That's so weird to me. Not saying you're wrong, it's just to me, this is the fastest pacing of all of era 2. I agree with some people saying it lacks the Sanderlanche but that's because it's a Sanderlanche from beginning to end. If I were to read the whole series beginning to end, this book is the Sanderlanche of the whole series. Far less draggy than the first two. Maybe that's because I'm here for the characters and cosmere connections. I don't really care about plot.
I mostly agree that the doppelgangers were unnecessary, but I think there's one point in their favor that you didn't discuss. It showed Wax and Wayne's mastery of their powers, which is very Brandon. Their importance was not just about having cool powers, it was about deeply knowing their powers and how to use them to maximum effect.
Also about Autonomy’s messed up perspective on ambition and so-called individuality. She attempts to inspire real innovation but just tired iterations of things other people have already done .
I am so grateful to these episodes! I am a very excitable person and a huge fan of Brandon's work, so when I finished the TLM the same day it got released, it was all I could do not to scream into the pillow from the enthusiasm. Unfortunately, few people in my friends circle read the books that quickly (if they read Cosmere at all), so listening to your reactions and hearing what you guys found interesting is a wonderful outlet! Thank you! :)
I wonder if Kelsier or Sazed knows that Demoux is still alive, and in the Seventeenth Shard. (I wonder if Demoux would like to get some of the atium that Sazed now knows how to make.)
Kelsier talks about how there are only three of the original crew left, so… wait, that doesn’t work, does it? Who’s in the original crew? Was he talking about the “original crew” from _before_ The Final Empire, before they met Sazed? Marsh explicitly wasn’t in the crew until maybe 1/3 of the way through the first book, so is he one of the three? Demoux was introduced maybe 1/2 way through, but he arguably wasn’t part of the “crew” until maybe the third book, if ever, so I’m not sure he’d count.
@@OtherTheDave Demoux was never in the crew. The crew were the people involved in the planning of the heist/revolution. Marsh was one of them from the beginning, he just didn't accept that until later. The 3 left are Kel, Sazed and Marsh. The crew were: Kel Dox Vin Sazed Ham Breeze Dockson Clubs Spook Marsh Renoux/OreSeur Yeden And I'm probably forgetting someone
Question: in this book we saw some misting use the Dor and Autonomy's Investiture, so could an atium-misting* use other forms of investiture? Demoux could possibly very powerful. Imagine a radiant Demoux. *(Keep in mind that atium-misting were artificially created by Preservation, they are an oddity, and could follow different rules)
@@ilregiallo4151 I could be wrong but the impression I get is that yes, a misting could use unkeyed Dor to power their ability but not to give them any other abilities. So yes an atium misting should be able to use it as if it was super good atium. They could not use it to become a coinshot or something unless they are spiked, spren bonded or maybe stamped to give them other abilities.
Haven't finished the video yet, but just to defend Steris, what she's doing is basically what I want to do when I grow up and I enjoyed every second of her planning for evacs and disasters 😅
I love that emotional allomancy had more representation in this book compared to its predecessors. I missed Rioting and Soothing a lot and it was nice seeing them used by Marsh and Marasi's relative.
Sorry about three consecutive messages. I have a habit of posting before I finish the video because I know I'll forget what I'm thinking at that precise moment. Anyway ... Where were the medallions? They have this cool new tech and promptly forget it exists? This is post Front Five, so Hoid has Design with him! I would love to know what she thought of the events. Will the Overlady read? Did you notice that Wayne has been practicing with bendalloy a lot - I mean, a lot - and now he feels old? It's almost as if he lived through more years than anyone else because his personal timestream was constantly sped up .... I happen to know Ray Feist, and I believe he says "fiyst", same vowel as in kite and fight. (Think of the word "feisty".) He generally answers to "Ray".
This is where I am too. Bands was good because it is a Sanderson book, but it was my most forgettable read in the Cosmere. I reread it in preparation to read Lost Metal (only just finished it), and most of it felt new because I had forgotten so much.
I agree with Shannon’s point about meelan all of a sudden being portrayed as so emotional that she HAD to get away because she loved wayne too much. rather than her not wanting to lead wayne on anymore and wanting to be more like the other kandra
I'm confused about that take because I didn't get literally any of that from the book. Even at the end, Melaan was chiding herself because she should have known going in that her emotions and what she considers a meaningful relationship would never be in line with a human. I don't think she's melodramatically sighing about how she loves him _so much_ that she must leave, just sad that a cool job offer for Harmony _really_ is enough to trump their relationship for her. The angle I get on her sadness is that she knows, for a fact, that Wayne is not operating on those same wavelengths. She knows she's had fun, and now is going off to do something more interesting... But she knows he probably loved her very much and was counting on having her perhaps for the rest of his life by his side. I see her sadness as a "I shouldn't have gotten into this relationship, now I've hurt a friend I really like", not as a "I just love him too much I have to run away from it"
One pretty important thing that doesn't get as much attention is that they discover that with Hemalurgy you can safely take the small bit of a persons soul. It kind of reminds me of a Nalthian giving their breath. I'm sure this will be important in the future.
@@17thShard yeah, there are so many things in this book that have so many different implications that they all need their own episode to really dig into it.
Weekly enforced visits to the soul bank to donate raw investiture for planetary shield batteries and for stored transport to allomantic soldiers in the battle for shedesmar. Lol. But yea the possibilities are just as awesome as they horrendous. E.G Could you spike a planets soul with a mile-long spike Pushed thru space?
On Ians comment about rehashing the end of Bands when it comes to Wax and Harmony: I just got done with a reread of Bands about a week before the release of TLM, and it didn't at all feel like a rehashing. Just because Wax understood INTELLECTUALLY that Harmony kinda had to do what he did, doesn't mean for one second that Wax forgave Harmony. He still doesn't want to talk to the dude, because he caused Wax to KILL HIS WIFE! I think Ian might be emotionally short sighted on this one. Shannon is right. It was all about feeling why Wax waited a year from that first letter to talk to Saz.
For me the order is : SoS, TLM, BoM,AoL- I really loved this book - I loved Wayne in this book where I didn’t love him as much in the other books - and I laughed out loud the most in this book from all four.
Loved Sterris's planning. Reminds me of myself. Well, she definitely goes way further than I ever do, but I know the feeling of only feeling comfortable when I've thought of as many bad scenarios that could happen during whatever it is I'm doing.
I’m surprised by the non spoiler reactions. I really loved all the plot lines. I might feel differently because I’ve always loved Wayne so much so I was really enjoying this the whole way through. Excited to listen to this discussion!
I think Discord will be teased in 3.1 then come to the forefront in 3.2 and be dealt with for better or worse by the end of 3.3. I think it's been teased for so long is because Harmony & Discord both effect SLA6-10, but the division is ended before Era 4&5. Like the Scadrien agents of SLA6-10 are discordant, even more than Ghostblood stuff
Let's be clear, Wax's uncle was definitely the one that came up with the doppelganger plan. No other member of the Set came up with that idea, it was Wax's crazy uncle. The rest of the Set just went along with it. I refuse to believe anything else.
So I think Kalsier is maybe responsible for the bands being drained. When the ghostblood talk to kalsier he says he is some days away and can't really speed up because steel pushing doesn't work well over water... but in the end hr is talking to sazed about wanting mistborn power again
You asked why Harmony doesn't send Kelsier to deal with the nuke. Well, at the end of that you got Kelsier with a nuke. And we don't want Kelsier with a nuke.
On Shannon’s point there, I would blame Brandon for not developing Meelan or her relationship with Wayne enough. There are attempts in the book to characterise her as not fitting in with the Kandra but it is dropped so quickly that it becomes irrelevant except as a part of the joke. Might be something to take back to Brandon
Eric thinks there's too few comments rn so let me add one to the pile :P Only 50 mins in but it's a super fun podcast, can't wait for the rest of the reactions :D
My personal theory for why Hoid could be helping Harmony. Harmony is in trouble and wants allies. Hoid would be a powerful alloy. Harmony has something Hoid wants: feruchemy. I think Hoid promised to help Harmony out for a while in exchange for Feruchemy. He would 100% abandon Jasnah for that, and that would explain his longer term mission. It might even explain how he ends up being a primary character in Mistborn era 4
Remote Dominance is definitely in what is now the Malwish Consortium. My head canon is that in Final Empire times the Malwish had not spread that far north. There's also a mountain range blocking the Remote Dominance from the rest of the South, soI can believe that Final Empire explorers may have found the trip challenging and, if there was seemingly nothin of value further South, abandoned it entirely. Plus the Lord Ruler was in charge so for all we know, he knew about them but prevented his people from interacting for some reason.
Oh, the Final Empire is fine. The area south of it was unbearably hot so people couldn't cross anyway. The issue is, why hasn't anyone crossed this distance in the 300 years since?
About Wax becoming a Mini-Mistborn and how it seems like that didn't mean anything aside from providing a tiny bit of extra investiture into the gene pool. Wax wasn't the only bit of extra investiture. There's the kids from the Community. If Wax and Steris's kids end up with kids born in the Community, that would be a very concentrated Allomancer bloodline, possibly just concentrated enough to end up with a Mistborn. So maybe that Mistborn serial killer plot could happen.
This book was by far my favorite from era 2 and is now one of my top favorites of all of Brandon’s books. It was interesting to here different reactions from you guys.
Love the new overlay, and that adorable Shallan drawing that pops up to censor cursing kinda makes me want Evgeni to curse more xD Personally even though I'm not reading archivally later with Era 3 waiting for me right after, I'm still ok with the Era 3 setups being just setups, because I've known for a while that there's another book coming and it just feels like an ongoing series. My vibe on Wayne and MeLaan was more that it started sexual and then got to be not quite romantic, but something between platonic and romantic. I might say queerplatonic if Wayne felt queerer. Also my first thoughts on MeLaan saying he was the best lay, I thought at first that she was trying to make him feel better, but then I thought about the kiss and how the focus on that was the fact that it was a kiss only a shapeshifter could give. Most mortals think kandra are spooky, and they don't understand them. Wayne on the other hand understands them to some degree. He relates to them, and rather than being spooked by the shapeshifting, he's into it. Plus the brief convo he has with Wax about bondage later, when kink compatibility can be really important for what constitutes "a good lay". It just stuck out to me because Brandon has called himself a prude on multiple occasions so I didn't expect this, but Wayne even makes sure Wax knows the importance of safewords, implying at least a little bit of research on Brandon's part (because a lot of people don't know that that's a thing). P.S. I didn't pay VenDell much attention in the previous books but I absolutely loved him in this one.
Sterris storyline is way more important then you guys gave it credit for. Why were the bands divested, was the vice governor a leecher? Did Kelsier go to the south to plan with the Malwish about getting the bands for him because the Malwish ambassador seemed to be expecting the bands to be divested. This was all plotted by the ghost bloods so Kelsier can get his powers back and convince Harmony to advance technology faster.
1:47:57 a bit off topic, but I just think of that "repeat after me" style camp song "Princess Pat" whenever I hear "Red and Gold"... (if you don't know it, listen to it at your own risk because it's a real earworm 🤣) "A rickabamboo Now what is that? Its a something made By the Princess Pat It’s a red and gold and a purple too That’s why its called a rickabamboo"
I believe the reason Moonlight´s transformation doesn´t wear off like the others might have to do with the fact that she turned into an Elantrian. Because all Elantrians are constantly Invested by the Dor maybe the Soulstamp just keeps getting Invested as this new persona gets her own investiture naturally. Something similar might happen for example by turning into a Knight in Roshar and constantly having spheres to recharge. Maybe even -in some level- this is similar to what happens with the Returned. They have their Divine Breath but still need one breath regularly to not die. Maybe something similar to a Soulstamp is what brings them back in the first place and after they just need Investiture to feed this “stamp”.
I had a thought on Shai Her stamp not only changed her history but also gave her access to a magic system (essentially rewriting her DNA on some level) which is why it didn't wear off after a day. Also wouldn't it be interesting if when we see Shai again she's part of the 17th Shard - essentially doing a reverse of what happened with Iyatil and other potential Ghostblood members?
I found Wayne's investment strategy... Erm "strategy"... To be pretty amusing. His attempt to "waste" as much money as he could beceause he hated being rich, and each one kinda backfiring.
Finally managed to read The Lost Metal, was hard to hold off listening to the recent episodes but now the time has come for me to download *all* the content and *consume* 🔥
I'm surprised y'all were so negative. I thought this was Brandon's best book in years and has increased my excitement for SA5. After so many "middle books" it's great to get ending books from Brandon again.
What do we think is potentially a stronger steelpush, A twinborn crasher, or a coinshot with a spike granting Duralumin allomancy, who has a stomach full of steel and duralumin? I honestly dont know, both could conceivably reach limitless strength, the twinborn could strap numerous malwish amulets, or just have their own metalminds, but the amulets would work better for a lack of limit, we saw wayne freeze god when he burned enough bendalloy with duralumin, wonder what that effect couldve been like. So many questions.
One big thing I loved about the Wayne resolution and growth was how the girl and kid were being used by gangsters as a source of money as well as sending ber kid to a great school. Now she is able to escape as well and save the rest of her family. A great resolution that we got to see rather than Hoid explain it to proto-formless/Shallan
I thought/wanted Wayne's double-ganger to be one of the daughter's of the man he killed. And that was why she was so intent on hurting Wayne and removing him. I then wanted a scene at the end, of Wax and her fighting, her identity being revealed and Wayne being in the situation where he freezes in the decision of killing her (maybe with a gun) to save Wax and him needing to deal/process what Wax has been saying about him being different and her being responsible for her own actions and path post Wayne's wrong
I was so slow on realising Moonlight was Shai. Even when she brought out the soul stamps I was thinking, "Oh, she's a forger from the Rose Empire, just like Shai!".
The men of red and gold were the biggest disappointment to me. Just having Marasi and the other allowances eat up the pool and then this big army just doesn’t ever come seemed like such a big letdown. Not that I can see another way without Autonomy’s army destroying everything, but it seemed really dumb to me with how Marasi’s arc ended.
1:50:00 I think part of it might be that, because Elantrians are Invested, the stamp might be self-sustaining? As in, the stamp will just leech off her investiture instead of fading away.
On what Shannon was saying about Era 2 making her excited for Era 3-That definitely resonates with me. Whil Era 2 may not have been as awesome as Era 1 as a standalone series, it has done a better job than Era 1 at selling me on the concept of this multi era series. After Era 1, I thought it was cool to have more Mistborn, but it was bittersweet that none (or very few) of the characters who'd carried me through that series would be there going forward. But Era 2 has gotten me invested more with the overarching story of Scadrial almost as its own character, and I want to see how that develops across the eras.
The new layout looks great! Finished the audiobook at 4 this morning, and started on the pod where I heard ya mention it, and had to head over to the video proper to check it out. Loved the secret society stuff SO MUCH. Here's hoping we'll see more moonlight in upcoming novels.
I've always enjoyed the characters in Era 2 more than the story so there was some good content for me in Lost Metal. I'm not sure if its the best Era 2 I've read, but It's also been a hot minute since I read the others. I'm also excited to see the next era be written very close together. I think I also picked up on Wayne's hidden trauma pretty early so it felt like a natural development for his character in this book.
I think the Vice Governor was a Chromium misting in league with the Malwish and not the Set. All the signs of her being a double agent were misread by Wax and Steris. Her goal was to get Elendel into an emergency situation so they could use the bands. The new Ambasador being a military man was a smoke screen to make people focus on him and not her. She was the first person to touch the bands and she used her power to empty them of feruchemical reserves. She was also incredibly quick to join the Malwish ship afterward despite being so Gung ho to save the city mere moments before. Also I think by this book the Set had less far reaching control. My interpretation is that due to the events of Bands of Mourning the Set lost a lot of power and influence and were forced to work with what they had already obtained instead of further expanding. I see the evil twins as a desperation move instead of a master plan
I’m worried about shay, we know that elantrians powers aren’t unlimited. In this case she used purified investiture to fuel her powers but it’s not a constant flow of power like on sel. Eventually she will run out of juice, and because she’s a elantrian now she’ll turn into one of the shaod once she has no investiture left. unless kelsier finds a way to reverse the transformation I think shays screwd
Mentioning that the doppelgangers were forgettable, forgetting to mention the moment where Wayne goes full psycho, revealing to Wax that he believes himself worthless. Which, I only remembered listening to you all talk about it!
I LinkedIn this book. Wayne´s death as good but the moment that really got to me as when Allik told Marasi. That brought me to tears. Though one of the main things I didn´t like about this book was the fact that Wax was never forced to confront Telsin. He just pointed algún at her while she monologed and then yeeted himself off of the building. Next day she´s just dead. Like huge wasted character moments there
Coming here from the podcast to wave and say Mistborn era 2 was my first Cosmere storyline, in addition to reading it before Mistborn Era 1. And this was a super good choice for me! Hearing my partner talk about Cosmere when epic fantasy is not my typical genre seemed intimidating and complicated. Mistborn Era 2 starts out on a smaller scale of plots (and shorter books!) that were manageable. All the references to Era 1 were cool mysterious lore that made the series intriguing with a totally different vibe than when I reread in prep for Lost Metal, with all the context from Era 1. It felt like I got the mystery of the lore twice bc I didnt know enough about the references for them to stick and be spoiled when I finally read Era 1. And I still love the Western/Mystery/Adventure genre of Era 2 better than the genre of Era 1, and Lost Metal expanding to be so much more epic and complicated was one of the detractions for me. Also part of the Steris fan club that both loved her storyline in Lost Metal and wished she could've been more involved w the other characters and had more page time in some other way. But the storyline she did have made me feel so seen.
Finally finished the book. I Enjoyed it a similar amount to the other era 2 books, but definately her the criticisms. One thing about the doppletwits, I think that this was explicitly called out as an Autonomy thing. Autonomy pushes a corporate mandate of defined individuality, with people competing to be the best version of the archtype to get her approval. In that environment it makes sense that the tool to beat Wax and Wayne would be a better version of them. And I'm pretty sure that Getruda explicitly says that the dopplers are there to replace the originals in order to get Autonomy's favour.
Sorry for talking over each other. We are so excited! Here's the upcoming Shardcast plan:
-This Wednesday: Reactions 2
-Next Weekend: Trell & Autonomy
-The following Wednesday: Reactions 3
-The weekend after that: Harmony / Discord
Great topics! Very happy to see Evgeni been missing him :)
I think the reason the stamp lasts is because it is being powered by pure Investiture
Oh boy the Harmony/Discord discussion is gonna be fire
2 episodes per week! great, I love it.
Thanks for the schedule. I get comfort from them. I was the weird kid who would chill and read the TVGuide book.
Also did you notice Sazed lied to Kelsier then immediatly gaslit him about always telling Kel the truth? (About the explosions creating Lerasium)
Our boy Sazed has grown up 😈
My first reaction: "Oh finally Sazed has learned how to lie!"
My second reaction: "Oh fuck Sazed has learned how to lie!"
THIS!! HOW IS THAT NOT THE FIRST THING ANYONE'S TALKING ABOUT??
Almost like he was sowing Discord amongst each other, so Kel will one day strike and Harmony's shadow can take over...
I am fairly anti-Sazed now, and am a full on Survivorist
At the end when Wayne says the “I think“ Michael Kramer brings back the accent, literal chills
Agreed. Chills
I didn't get the significance of that line...what is just because God didn't know?
@@swc10s nope it’s the voice of the individual who became god that he used in era 1, his correspondence and so on. To have Wayne do that exactly …
I missed this too, I think this is relevant, but I can't remember why.
@@davidmorales-dm7xm I think it's only relevant for the audio book
100% convinced the whole point of the doppelgängers was Brandon wanted to show what would happen if Wayne and Wax had to fight each other. 😅
The doppelgängers worked for me when they switched. Wax fighting Waynes doppelgänger etc. Before that I found them really boring.
@@Florfilm yeah I didn’t really have an issue with them. Not that they were super exciting at the start or anything but definitely most enjoyable to read at the end when they switched.
100% - I think Brandon really wanted to have a Wax and Wayne full power fight and this was the solution he chose.
Pretty early on with these fights I was thinking "This is a classic 'lets switch' fights"
On the Set's plan with the doppelgangers, it actually made a lot of sense to me. Wax and Wayne have fought and defeated a variety of different metalborn and beat them because of their skill with their metals. So using people who have the same abilities as them, but superior, is essentially a fight they are unfamiliar with and they nearly lose in the first two fights in very believable ways because they were outmatched in their own capabilities. But yes, I also believe that Brandon wanted to show what would happen if they fought lol
Harmony: "How many packets of bendalloy do you have?" Wayne: "17" -- BOOM!
To me the most relevant line regarding the Dopplegangers is Wayne telling Gertruda something like You're way worse, you actually want to be me. To me that really hit home how much self loathing he had, even more than when he referred to himself a worthless.
That was a great line. -Eric
I think it also really drove home the point at the end that Wayne was the only choice. Even if he wanted to, Saze couldn't have, like, spiked a criminal and teleported them onto the ship to diffuse the bomb. Even someone trying to emulate Wayne was significantly worse than him with the bendalloy power.
I also think it might become a relevant plot point going forward in the Cosmere. It's always struck me as very sus that the Ars Arcanum for Era 2 has always pointed out that Hemalurgy was the most interesting of the 3 metallic arts to the 17th Shard, so the fact that a hemallurgist will always be less skilled than a natural born Scadrian *should* play out as we move into the later eras.
@@nikkisweezea2388not less skilled, less powerful. The two doppelgängers were less skilled because they had the power for less time.
I love when Brandon pulls a "Im bout to write the shit out of this character arc" -- the focus on Wayne reminded me a lot of the focus on Dalinar in Oathbringer in the best way. Also I lol'd when young Wayne tells him mom "are you sure you're allowed to be telling me a story like this?" precious
Joint rolled, beer poured, let's gooo
Exactly!
Ah a man of quality I see
@@samthompson390 just like yourself by the sounds, my man.
@@atticuswench1561 needed it after the ending, pouring one out for Wayne
@@Lezzyboy87 joint and a beer? That would cancel each other out for me. Whichever one was first, the second would cancel out. But I do have a fat bowl burnin though!
The Wayne sports bit was 100% a setup to have a pro sports game be in Era 3. He suggested they change the name and add Metalborn, I wonder what noseball will be called in the future
Also I'm kinda curious why Brandon really didn't utilize emotional allomancy at all in era 2 considering how important it was to era 1. He kinda hand-waved it away with aluminum hats and then never brought it up again outside of that
I agree with you overall, though it was a vital plot thing in this book that Marasi was saved by emotional allomancy.
Same with copper and bronze. When the Wax clone used bronze, my reaction was “right, that exists” cause we hadn’t seen it in forever
I don’t really agree about Wax’s arc being a retread of BoM. It wasn’t his emotions towards harmony he was dealing with anymore, it was his place and his duty as ‘the sword’, whether he could fulfill the role, whether he needed it to be happy, whether he wanted that sort of glory. The fact that his relationship with harmony went from rage to apathy is just a natural progression when someone has hurt you this badly. I actually thought his character arc was a need for him to reaffirm his choices of the last six years to put the roughs life behind him. To become sure of who he is and means to be going forward. It was truly beautiful to see and I’m glad he got that.
my absolute favourite moment oof this book was seeing Wayne burn steel. seeing our protagonist take the hemalurgic spikes was just so cool.
Worked out better than the last main and semi-main characters who got spiked (Vin and Spook and Marsh).
Kelsier will get their wish of a Sazed who moves things along faster. And he will come to regret at least one of the consequences of that, I think.
Read this in audiobook Sazed accent in my head. Bravo.
Hoid knows where he needs to be but he doesnt know why. I think the point of having him in this book was that the reason he had come to Scadrial during that time was to save Wax at the end, although he didn't know it at the time.
"Renette goes Malwish" sounds more like the title of a '90s-era teen comedy from Scadrial than any legitimate statement of her intent.
I’m so happy that the focus on Wayne in this book fits so perfectly with the Wax and Wayne pun. The lunar cycle is now complete and the most involved dad joke ever has it’s payoff.
My favorite thing about this joke is that it doesn't even work in world cause Scadrial doesn't have a moon
The Bands ending up in Malwish (that's for you Evgeni) feels like Kelsier pulling a heist on the Kandra and Sazed. If that's true, it would be awesome to see it play out in a Secret History 2. It being however the Bands were drained and the planning that went into it. Kelsier and Ghostbloods stated goals were to defend Scadrial, not Elendel, not the Basin, but the planet. Kelsier doesn't trust Sazed to do the job so he's setting up the Malwish to be his instrument to do so, as Elendel and the Basin are Sazed's.
😔
The way Wayne could deal with death in a fun way was very powerfull to me. Death is scary, but he faced it with a joke and a smile.
I cried like a baby when Wayne died. It was 2am and I was reading it in the bathroom so as not to wake up my Fiancé but I sobbed do hard. It was beautiful.
Same! Everyone was I'm bed at 1am and I'm just bawling
bro, it was like Vin all over again, it felt heavy on my soul 😂
I was working out at the time, and nearly hyperventilated
My introduction to the Cosmere was through Alloy of Law. I had been looking for a book to read and my friend had that one lying around. SoS and BoM had just come out at that point but I went back to read era 1 before continuing in era 2.
Now, as a starting point, I did not find it that jarring. I certainly do appreciate the many era 1 references that you find throughout that first book but in my limited Cosmere knowledge, I considered them as interesting world building or they just went right over my head. It's actually sort of neat because the call backs to the characters in era 1 like the Ascendant Warrior and the Survivor were simply what they were described as in era 2 to me, mythical heroes. Reading Era 1 ended up feeling more like reading a prequel, where I got to explore the backstories of these legends mentioned in era 2.
I found Brandon did a great job of explaining the magic systems to a newcomer and the action-packed scenes and great character work kept me entertained throughout the novel. Enough so that now I'm a rabid fan who spends way too much time immersing myself in Cosmere lore!
It may have been different for someone who read era 2 in its entirety before jumping back to era 1. But for me, it worked!
This is how it happened for me too!
When the Wayne clone first appeared, I thought we were witnessing some Identity shenanigans, like the girl being spiked some of Wayne's identity somehow. I think that would have been way cooler.
Yeah, I thought there was going to be something like that, or they were directly created by Autonomy or something. Instead they are just weirdos. -Eric
I loved Steris. Her scenes with Wax are the best. But her with the governer was also awesome.
I actually liked lost metal even more than bands or shadows. I'm just such a sucker for cosmere stuff that I couldn't care less about a weak plot just gimmy the juice.
I thought this book was the best out of the 4, Shadows and Bands were forgettable for me (I literally forgot what happened in those books) but this book was exciting from start to finish.
Fascinating! Glad you loved it! -Eric
Same here 😂
I thought the title should be *Giant Infodump*. Introducing Cosmere elements, fine. Making it "The Cosmere Reunion Party" (another alternate title), not so much.
@@carl11547I kinda see what you’re saying here, but I feel like, for the Cosmere to work, this had to be this way. The Ghostbloods are all about protecting Scadrial, and it would be super weird if they didn’t show up for a world-ending threat; then you end up with the whole MCU thing where it’s like “these immortal beings have been around for centuries but for some reason never helped with important events until they were on screen.” So for the broader sake of continuity, it feels like the Cosmere references need to be there to some extent.
That was Alloy for me 😂 I never remember what happened except ‘something something trains?’
Evgeni, after drinking the gold, did the burning feeling in your stomach make you question, or perhaps even see, how your life could have been different had you not drunk it?
I was sad no one caught on the fact that Vin describes new metals similarly 😔
@@_argent well, at least you still have your health
My biggest complaint about TLM is Telsin, specifically her lack of real threat. For the leader of the Set and the supposed avatar of Autonomy and Trell, she's just kinda... there? Not really doing much beyond saying some vaguely menacing things. She comes off as desperate and trapped (which I think was intentional) and almost powerless, which is a very odd choice to go with for your primary antagonist in the final book of the series.
My other issue with her is that the relationship between Wax and Telsin felt underdeveloped and tacked on. We are told in the story that they have this history together, but we have never really seen it on screen. Combined with the fact that for most of the series we don't even know Telsin is part of the Set, and it makes the family drama fall a bit flat, at least to me.
One could make the argument that Telsin isn't really even supposed to be that threatening in this book, but it still feels to me that she (and the Set more generally) are just sorta underwhelming compared to how they've been set up.
Telsin really wasnt the main antagonist, it was Autonomy. Telsin was a puppet and desperate. It was very intentional imho
I started with era 2. I love alloy of law, it was my introduction to the cosmere. I was able to understand the story, the powers and the concepts without the background. Still having that era 1 background helped later to grow and expandthe knowledge as we went into the next books of era 2. Being able to understand the powers in their separate units allows me to contemplate how they can be combined. 2:18:44
Thanks for pointing out the connection of the prologue and Wayne's finale, I didn't see that until now. Also, I think I missed / forgot the part where Harmony makes Wax see the invasion of Luthadel? I listened to the Audiobook so maybe I zoned out during that time. Either way, still an amazing book and great set-up for Era 3! Hurray for more Cosmere connections!
It happens when Wax reaches the top of the Shaw after killing all of the Set's soldiers. He is physically and mentally exhausted from it, a bit angry at Harmony for making him do this, and Sazed sends him this vision to show him that he knows how it feels
I think TLM is my favorite era 2 book, so it's always way interesting to hear other reactions to it! Great show, as always!
Same here, the series just got better with every book. Alloy of Law I don't really care for. Shadows got decent. Bands was finally pretty good. TLM is the best.
@@wingracer1614 I more agree with the Shard Casters. This book was good, but Shadows/Bands were way better plotted and cohesive. This book was character work and Cosmere connections. Enjoyable, but draggy at times.
@@Aldric524 That's so weird to me. Not saying you're wrong, it's just to me, this is the fastest pacing of all of era 2. I agree with some people saying it lacks the Sanderlanche but that's because it's a Sanderlanche from beginning to end. If I were to read the whole series beginning to end, this book is the Sanderlanche of the whole series. Far less draggy than the first two. Maybe that's because I'm here for the characters and cosmere connections. I don't really care about plot.
I mostly agree that the doppelgangers were unnecessary, but I think there's one point in their favor that you didn't discuss. It showed Wax and Wayne's mastery of their powers, which is very Brandon. Their importance was not just about having cool powers, it was about deeply knowing their powers and how to use them to maximum effect.
Also about Autonomy’s messed up perspective on ambition and so-called individuality. She attempts to inspire real innovation but just tired iterations of things other people have already done .
I am so grateful to these episodes! I am a very excitable person and a huge fan of Brandon's work, so when I finished the TLM the same day it got released, it was all I could do not to scream into the pillow from the enthusiasm. Unfortunately, few people in my friends circle read the books that quickly (if they read Cosmere at all), so listening to your reactions and hearing what you guys found interesting is a wonderful outlet! Thank you! :)
I Also don't have friends to nerd abt the cosmere abt😭
@@chillerkiller112 are you on 17th shard website?
@@yuliyaborodina250 oh shoot my bad I didnt see your comment yes I am but its not the same as having friends u know ?
@@chillerkiller112 very true :) but it does help quite a bit. You are always welcome to reach out to me too, if you want
I, for one, thoroughly enjoyed Sterris's plot :)
I wonder if Kelsier or Sazed knows that Demoux is still alive, and in the Seventeenth Shard. (I wonder if Demoux would like to get some of the atium that Sazed now knows how to make.)
Kelsier talks about how there are only three of the original crew left, so… wait, that doesn’t work, does it? Who’s in the original crew? Was he talking about the “original crew” from _before_ The Final Empire, before they met Sazed? Marsh explicitly wasn’t in the crew until maybe 1/3 of the way through the first book, so is he one of the three? Demoux was introduced maybe 1/2 way through, but he arguably wasn’t part of the “crew” until maybe the third book, if ever, so I’m not sure he’d count.
@@OtherTheDave Demoux was never in the crew. The crew were the people involved in the planning of the heist/revolution. Marsh was one of them from the beginning, he just didn't accept that until later. The 3 left are Kel, Sazed and Marsh.
The crew were:
Kel
Dox
Vin
Sazed
Ham
Breeze
Dockson
Clubs
Spook
Marsh
Renoux/OreSeur
Yeden
And I'm probably forgetting someone
Question: in this book we saw some misting use the Dor and Autonomy's Investiture, so could an atium-misting* use other forms of investiture?
Demoux could possibly very powerful. Imagine a radiant Demoux.
*(Keep in mind that atium-misting were artificially created by Preservation, they are an oddity, and could follow different rules)
@@ilregiallo4151 I could be wrong but the impression I get is that yes, a misting could use unkeyed Dor to power their ability but not to give them any other abilities. So yes an atium misting should be able to use it as if it was super good atium. They could not use it to become a coinshot or something unless they are spiked, spren bonded or maybe stamped to give them other abilities.
@@OtherTheDave Marsh was in the crew, but he wasn't shown until later as he was busy becoming a spy.
I unironically loved how deeply riven and factionalized the set was and how much that impacted the gang's ability to take it down
Haven't finished the video yet, but just to defend Steris, what she's doing is basically what I want to do when I grow up and I enjoyed every second of her planning for evacs and disasters 😅
Brandon could've called Malwish Malware and solved Evgeni's problem. lol
Yay! Thanks in advance, guys. Can't wait!
Codenames: "Somehow, Palpatine is back"
(The perpendicularity explanation)
I love that emotional allomancy had more representation in this book compared to its predecessors. I missed Rioting and Soothing a lot and it was nice seeing them used by Marsh and Marasi's relative.
Waiting all week after I read the whole book in one day! Love the new overlay too, phase 2 setup for phase 2 of the Cosmere!
Sorry about three consecutive messages. I have a habit of posting before I finish the video because I know I'll forget what I'm thinking at that precise moment. Anyway ...
Where were the medallions? They have this cool new tech and promptly forget it exists?
This is post Front Five, so Hoid has Design with him! I would love to know what she thought of the events.
Will the Overlady read?
Did you notice that Wayne has been practicing with bendalloy a lot - I mean, a lot - and now he feels old? It's almost as if he lived through more years than anyone else because his personal timestream was constantly sped up ....
I happen to know Ray Feist, and I believe he says "fiyst", same vowel as in kite and fight. (Think of the word "feisty".) He generally answers to "Ray".
Man it's interesting. I would easily put this as a tie with Shadows, and well above Bands and Alloy. Each to their own eh
This is where I am too. Bands was good because it is a Sanderson book, but it was my most forgettable read in the Cosmere. I reread it in preparation to read Lost Metal (only just finished it), and most of it felt new because I had forgotten so much.
I agree with Shannon’s point about meelan all of a sudden being portrayed as so emotional that she HAD to get away because she loved wayne too much. rather than her not wanting to lead wayne on anymore and wanting to be more like the other kandra
I'm confused about that take because I didn't get literally any of that from the book.
Even at the end, Melaan was chiding herself because she should have known going in that her emotions and what she considers a meaningful relationship would never be in line with a human. I don't think she's melodramatically sighing about how she loves him _so much_ that she must leave, just sad that a cool job offer for Harmony _really_ is enough to trump their relationship for her.
The angle I get on her sadness is that she knows, for a fact, that Wayne is not operating on those same wavelengths. She knows she's had fun, and now is going off to do something more interesting... But she knows he probably loved her very much and was counting on having her perhaps for the rest of his life by his side.
I see her sadness as a "I shouldn't have gotten into this relationship, now I've hurt a friend I really like", not as a "I just love him too much I have to run away from it"
One pretty important thing that doesn't get as much attention is that they discover that with Hemalurgy you can safely take the small bit of a persons soul. It kind of reminds me of a Nalthian giving their breath. I'm sure this will be important in the future.
We will definitely be doing a podcast on that. So much to talk about, we barely covered anything here it feels like. -Eric
@@17thShard yeah, there are so many things in this book that have so many different implications that they all need their own episode to really dig into it.
Weekly enforced visits to the soul bank to donate raw investiture for planetary shield batteries and for stored transport to allomantic soldiers in the battle for shedesmar. Lol. But yea the possibilities are just as awesome as they horrendous.
E.G Could you spike a planets soul with a mile-long spike Pushed thru space?
We NEED a secret history 2. Kell is super under developed. I want to know more about the Ghost Bloods and what they are doing.
I finally caught up to all of the Cosmere (besides Elantris + Yumi), I'm so glad you have 8 hours of reactions. Can't wait for W&T reactions
On Ians comment about rehashing the end of Bands when it comes to Wax and Harmony: I just got done with a reread of Bands about a week before the release of TLM, and it didn't at all feel like a rehashing. Just because Wax understood INTELLECTUALLY that Harmony kinda had to do what he did, doesn't mean for one second that Wax forgave Harmony. He still doesn't want to talk to the dude, because he caused Wax to KILL HIS WIFE! I think Ian might be emotionally short sighted on this one. Shannon is right. It was all about feeling why Wax waited a year from that first letter to talk to Saz.
Thumb up Argent, bloody worth that money for that joke, always love your show n tell!
For me the order is : SoS, TLM, BoM,AoL- I really loved this book - I loved Wayne in this book where I didn’t love him as much in the other books - and I laughed out loud the most in this book from all four.
Same order for me ! SoS was like the best book followed up by TLM then BoM then AoL
Loved Sterris's planning. Reminds me of myself. Well, she definitely goes way further than I ever do, but I know the feeling of only feeling comfortable when I've thought of as many bad scenarios that could happen during whatever it is I'm doing.
I’m surprised by the non spoiler reactions. I really loved all the plot lines. I might feel differently because I’ve always loved Wayne so much so I was really enjoying this the whole way through. Excited to listen to this discussion!
I think Discord will be teased in 3.1 then come to the forefront in 3.2 and be dealt with for better or worse by the end of 3.3.
I think it's been teased for so long is because Harmony & Discord both effect SLA6-10, but the division is ended before Era 4&5. Like the Scadrien agents of SLA6-10 are discordant, even more than Ghostblood stuff
Let's be clear, Wax's uncle was definitely the one that came up with the doppelganger plan. No other member of the Set came up with that idea, it was Wax's crazy uncle. The rest of the Set just went along with it. I refuse to believe anything else.
So I think Kalsier is maybe responsible for the bands being drained.
When the ghostblood talk to kalsier he says he is some days away and can't really speed up because steel pushing doesn't work well over water... but in the end hr is talking to sazed about wanting mistborn power again
I think Kel has been hiding the fact that he can't do anything to the other Ghostbloods. But that's a very legit theory.
I'm very curious to hear Feather's thoughts about the chapters with Kelsier. lol
You asked why Harmony doesn't send Kelsier to deal with the nuke. Well, at the end of that you got Kelsier with a nuke.
And we don't want Kelsier with a nuke.
On Shannon’s point there, I would blame Brandon for not developing Meelan or her relationship with Wayne enough.
There are attempts in the book to characterise her as not fitting in with the Kandra but it is dropped so quickly that it becomes irrelevant except as a part of the joke.
Might be something to take back to Brandon
Eric thinks there's too few comments rn so let me add one to the pile :P Only 50 mins in but it's a super fun podcast, can't wait for the rest of the reactions :D
My personal theory for why Hoid could be helping Harmony. Harmony is in trouble and wants allies. Hoid would be a powerful alloy. Harmony has something Hoid wants: feruchemy. I think Hoid promised to help Harmony out for a while in exchange for Feruchemy. He would 100% abandon Jasnah for that, and that would explain his longer term mission. It might even explain how he ends up being a primary character in Mistborn era 4
I'm still going with the aluminum-foil theory that Spook used a Duralumin and Cadmium speed bubble and will show up in Era 4.
Remote Dominance is definitely in what is now the Malwish Consortium. My head canon is that in Final Empire times the Malwish had not spread that far north. There's also a mountain range blocking the Remote Dominance from the rest of the South, soI can believe that Final Empire explorers may have found the trip challenging and, if there was seemingly nothin of value further South, abandoned it entirely.
Plus the Lord Ruler was in charge so for all we know, he knew about them but prevented his people from interacting for some reason.
Oh, the Final Empire is fine. The area south of it was unbearably hot so people couldn't cross anyway. The issue is, why hasn't anyone crossed this distance in the 300 years since?
@@_argent Ahhh right I get you.
Yeah they might be idiots.
About Wax becoming a Mini-Mistborn and how it seems like that didn't mean anything aside from providing a tiny bit of extra investiture into the gene pool. Wax wasn't the only bit of extra investiture. There's the kids from the Community. If Wax and Steris's kids end up with kids born in the Community, that would be a very concentrated Allomancer bloodline, possibly just concentrated enough to end up with a Mistborn. So maybe that Mistborn serial killer plot could happen.
This book was by far my favorite from era 2 and is now one of my top favorites of all of Brandon’s books. It was interesting to here different reactions from you guys.
Love the new overlay, and that adorable Shallan drawing that pops up to censor cursing kinda makes me want Evgeni to curse more xD
Personally even though I'm not reading archivally later with Era 3 waiting for me right after, I'm still ok with the Era 3 setups being just setups, because I've known for a while that there's another book coming and it just feels like an ongoing series.
My vibe on Wayne and MeLaan was more that it started sexual and then got to be not quite romantic, but something between platonic and romantic. I might say queerplatonic if Wayne felt queerer. Also my first thoughts on MeLaan saying he was the best lay, I thought at first that she was trying to make him feel better, but then I thought about the kiss and how the focus on that was the fact that it was a kiss only a shapeshifter could give. Most mortals think kandra are spooky, and they don't understand them. Wayne on the other hand understands them to some degree. He relates to them, and rather than being spooked by the shapeshifting, he's into it. Plus the brief convo he has with Wax about bondage later, when kink compatibility can be really important for what constitutes "a good lay". It just stuck out to me because Brandon has called himself a prude on multiple occasions so I didn't expect this, but Wayne even makes sure Wax knows the importance of safewords, implying at least a little bit of research on Brandon's part (because a lot of people don't know that that's a thing).
P.S. I didn't pay VenDell much attention in the previous books but I absolutely loved him in this one.
The whole Malwish debate just had me thinking about Roshar and chickens.
Sterris storyline is way more important then you guys gave it credit for. Why were the bands divested, was the vice governor a leecher? Did Kelsier go to the south to plan with the Malwish about getting the bands for him because the Malwish ambassador seemed to be expecting the bands to be divested. This was all plotted by the ghost bloods so Kelsier can get his powers back and convince Harmony to advance technology faster.
I could buy that but again, didn't have much impact in this book. I'm sure that plot will be fine once Era 3 is out. -Eric
1:47:57 a bit off topic, but I just think of that "repeat after me" style camp song "Princess Pat" whenever I hear "Red and Gold"... (if you don't know it, listen to it at your own risk because it's a real earworm 🤣)
"A rickabamboo
Now what is that?
Its a something made
By the Princess Pat
It’s a red and gold
and a purple too
That’s why its called
a rickabamboo"
22:05 I like the way you say “purified Dor” 😂
I believe the reason Moonlight´s transformation doesn´t wear off like the others might have to do with the fact that she turned into an Elantrian. Because all Elantrians are constantly Invested by the Dor maybe the Soulstamp just keeps getting Invested as this new persona gets her own investiture naturally.
Something similar might happen for example by turning into a Knight in Roshar and constantly having spheres to recharge.
Maybe even -in some level- this is similar to what happens with the Returned. They have their Divine Breath but still need one breath regularly to not die. Maybe something similar to a Soulstamp is what brings them back in the first place and after they just need Investiture to feed this “stamp”.
I had a thought on Shai
Her stamp not only changed her history but also gave her access to a magic system (essentially rewriting her DNA on some level) which is why it didn't wear off after a day.
Also wouldn't it be interesting if when we see Shai again she's part of the 17th Shard - essentially doing a reverse of what happened with Iyatil and other potential Ghostblood members?
I found Wayne's investment strategy... Erm "strategy"... To be pretty amusing. His attempt to "waste" as much money as he could beceause he hated being rich, and each one kinda backfiring.
Finally managed to read The Lost Metal, was hard to hold off listening to the recent episodes but now the time has come for me to download *all* the content and *consume* 🔥
Also something to think about Wayne’s wealth. He was fourth richest AFTER buying an utterly absurd amount and bendalloy
I'm surprised y'all were so negative. I thought this was Brandon's best book in years and has increased my excitement for SA5. After so many "middle books" it's great to get ending books from Brandon again.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! It is a good book, I just had some issues with it. -Eric
What do we think is potentially a stronger steelpush, A twinborn crasher, or a coinshot with a spike granting Duralumin allomancy, who has a stomach full of steel and duralumin? I honestly dont know, both could conceivably reach limitless strength, the twinborn could strap numerous malwish amulets, or just have their own metalminds, but the amulets would work better for a lack of limit, we saw wayne freeze god when he burned enough bendalloy with duralumin, wonder what that effect couldve been like. So many questions.
So much to talk about! So excited!
Been waiting on this video all weekend🤧
One big thing I loved about the Wayne resolution and growth was how the girl and kid were being used by gangsters as a source of money as well as sending ber kid to a great school. Now she is able to escape as well and save the rest of her family.
A great resolution that we got to see rather than Hoid explain it to proto-formless/Shallan
I thought/wanted Wayne's double-ganger to be one of the daughter's of the man he killed. And that was why she was so intent on hurting Wayne and removing him.
I then wanted a scene at the end, of Wax and her fighting, her identity being revealed and Wayne being in the situation where he freezes in the decision of killing her (maybe with a gun) to save Wax and him needing to deal/process what Wax has been saying about him being different and her being responsible for her own actions and path post Wayne's wrong
I was so slow on realising Moonlight was Shai. Even when she brought out the soul stamps I was thinking, "Oh, she's a forger from the Rose Empire, just like Shai!".
The men of red and gold were the biggest disappointment to me. Just having Marasi and the other allowances eat up the pool and then this big army just doesn’t ever come seemed like such a big letdown. Not that I can see another way without Autonomy’s army destroying everything, but it seemed really dumb to me with how Marasi’s arc ended.
1:50:00 I think part of it might be that, because Elantrians are Invested, the stamp might be self-sustaining? As in, the stamp will just leech off her investiture instead of fading away.
This is what I thought too.
Just finished reading era two last night... First time that I'm completely caught up with all things cosmere.
Months late but Era 2 also set up the speed/slow bubbles, which I feel like will have a lot of potential when combined with other Mistborn powers
Imo most important moment in book is Wayne moving faster than light... and that same as Lerasium, Harmony/Discord wont tell anyone :-D
On what Shannon was saying about Era 2 making her excited for Era 3-That definitely resonates with me. Whil Era 2 may not have been as awesome as Era 1 as a standalone series, it has done a better job than Era 1 at selling me on the concept of this multi era series. After Era 1, I thought it was cool to have more Mistborn, but it was bittersweet that none (or very few) of the characters who'd carried me through that series would be there going forward. But Era 2 has gotten me invested more with the overarching story of Scadrial almost as its own character, and I want to see how that develops across the eras.
Whoa, I love the new setup!
I didn't realize how much I loved Wayne until I read this book....
The new layout looks great! Finished the audiobook at 4 this morning, and started on the pod where I heard ya mention it, and had to head over to the video proper to check it out. Loved the secret society stuff SO MUCH. Here's hoping we'll see more moonlight in upcoming novels.
I've always enjoyed the characters in Era 2 more than the story so there was some good content for me in Lost Metal. I'm not sure if its the best Era 2 I've read, but It's also been a hot minute since I read the others. I'm also excited to see the next era be written very close together. I think I also picked up on Wayne's hidden trauma pretty early so it felt like a natural development for his character in this book.
I think the Vice Governor was a Chromium misting in league with the Malwish and not the Set. All the signs of her being a double agent were misread by Wax and Steris. Her goal was to get Elendel into an emergency situation so they could use the bands. The new Ambasador being a military man was a smoke screen to make people focus on him and not her. She was the first person to touch the bands and she used her power to empty them of feruchemical reserves. She was also incredibly quick to join the Malwish ship afterward despite being so Gung ho to save the city mere moments before.
Also I think by this book the Set had less far reaching control. My interpretation is that due to the events of Bands of Mourning the Set lost a lot of power and influence and were forced to work with what they had already obtained instead of further expanding. I see the evil twins as a desperation move instead of a master plan
I’m worried about shay, we know that elantrians powers aren’t unlimited. In this case she used purified investiture to fuel her powers but it’s not a constant flow of power like on sel. Eventually she will run out of juice, and because she’s a elantrian now she’ll turn into one of the shaod once she has no investiture left.
unless kelsier finds a way to reverse the transformation I think shays screwd
Mentioning that the doppelgangers were forgettable, forgetting to mention the moment where Wayne goes full psycho, revealing to Wax that he believes himself worthless. Which, I only remembered listening to you all talk about it!
Best mistborn book
I'm glad you liked it! Best Mistborn book of era 2, or of all Mistborn books? -Eric
I need to know what Evgeni said hahaha
😏
Damn I definitely Imagined the Malwish as being in a different hemisphere, not having looked at the map lmao
I LinkedIn this book. Wayne´s death as good but the moment that really got to me as when Allik told Marasi. That brought me to tears.
Though one of the main things I didn´t like about this book was the fact that Wax was never forced to confront Telsin. He just pointed algún at her while she monologed and then yeeted himself off of the building. Next day she´s just dead. Like huge wasted character moments there
Wayne going straight up JoJo at the end like ZA WARUDO! *cool time stop sound effect*
Coming here from the podcast to wave and say Mistborn era 2 was my first Cosmere storyline, in addition to reading it before Mistborn Era 1. And this was a super good choice for me! Hearing my partner talk about Cosmere when epic fantasy is not my typical genre seemed intimidating and complicated. Mistborn Era 2 starts out on a smaller scale of plots (and shorter books!) that were manageable. All the references to Era 1 were cool mysterious lore that made the series intriguing with a totally different vibe than when I reread in prep for Lost Metal, with all the context from Era 1. It felt like I got the mystery of the lore twice bc I didnt know enough about the references for them to stick and be spoiled when I finally read Era 1. And I still love the Western/Mystery/Adventure genre of Era 2 better than the genre of Era 1, and Lost Metal expanding to be so much more epic and complicated was one of the detractions for me. Also part of the Steris fan club that both loved her storyline in Lost Metal and wished she could've been more involved w the other characters and had more page time in some other way. But the storyline she did have made me feel so seen.
Thanks for commenting; that's awesome to hear! -Eric
Finally finished the book. I Enjoyed it a similar amount to the other era 2 books, but definately her the criticisms. One thing about the doppletwits, I think that this was explicitly called out as an Autonomy thing. Autonomy pushes a corporate mandate of defined individuality, with people competing to be the best version of the archtype to get her approval. In that environment it makes sense that the tool to beat Wax and Wayne would be a better version of them. And I'm pretty sure that Getruda explicitly says that the dopplers are there to replace the originals in order to get Autonomy's favour.
Finally finished lost metal and catching up here, AMAZING NEW OVERLAY 🤩