I would love to see him again, imagine they bring him back as the chief police officer, with some of his hair white or something, i would cry if I say my boy again, or him being retired with Maggie
In my opinion, the arc Athena REALLY needs is one of independence. She’s never truly managed to clinch a case all on her own; whenever she’s in the lead she always breaks down eventually and needs someone to save her, be it Phoenix, Simon, or her friends. And Apollo’s consistently been there with her, usually taking the lead or playing a significant role as the assistant. It truly feels like she’s been set up for this journey of finding that confidence, and cracking the case with nothing but her own strength and ingenuity, just like Phoenix in 3-5 and Apollo in 6-5(if I recall correctly Phoenix didn’t actually do that much in the latter trial of 6-5). DD explored her backstory, briefly skirting by her fear of courtrooms, now I think it’s time to focus on the AFTERMATH of her backstory, and have her confront that fear head-on!
Oh absolutely. Especially with Yamazaki's writing style trying to make her Phoenix when Athena is her own separate entity with a whole unique skillset. I don't need Athena to keep on quoting Phoenix's motto of "forcing a smile at all times" when she literally can't lie about her emotions. Like I know showing too much emotion isn't "professional," but this is a universe that has the prosecution trying to kill the defense so I think a little emotion is allowed. Anyways tangent aside, Athena just needs so much more focus on her than she has currently.
You could also have a new Prosecutor who is Obsessed with Ruining the Wright Agency. But Athena is alone, which gives the Prosecutor hope & copium to continue for 4 cases. The first case could use Payne. Or Maybe even Edgeworth.
I've had this thought for a long time now and I don't know what other place to put it: If Ace Attorney ever actually has a final game in the series, I really want to see a wholesome moment with the Judge where he announces his retirement and lets everyone who he's seen change the justice system know how important they really are (and also maybe reveal his real name?)
I'm wondering if they'll try to raise the stakes for the final case again. At this rate the final case will probably have you preventing nuclear war. I'd rather just have something personal, like the all the original trilogy final cases.
tbh apollo's final case in his trilogy was pretty personal i mean, the killer was responsible for both his biological and foster father's deaths i really don't know why people just love to complain about the apollo games tbh
If we get an Athena trilogy, I think it’d be super cool to have a space themed final trial. Unlike the cosmic turnabout, I want it to ACTUALLY take place in space, cause 1. Raising the epicness and scale of it all, 2. It really fits with Athena considering her backstory and all
Wonder if it'd be possible to make Franziska a prosecutor this time around. I'm not saying she has to be a main one but we haven't seen her since AAI2 so I'm pretty sure her inclusion is long overdo. I'd like to see her go against Athena. Edit: Came late and gonna rewatch the premiere.
I really want to see Athena vs Franziska, especially because I feel like the female characters keep getting done dirty by these games. Since Athena studied law in Europe, I think it would be cute if she learned about Franziska in her studies and kind of fangirls over her lol. I don't mean that in a shippy way, I just think it would fun she be starstruck by Franziska while also having to go against her in court.
Funny thing is, in the video they mention Athena only has 2,5 cases under her belt (onscreen). But doesn't this also apply to Franziska? She was the prosecutor in 2-2 and 2-3. Afterwards she was shot and Edgeworth took over for 2-4. She did do the first trial day for 3-5 against Edgeworth (mostly to buy some time), until she was replaced by Godot for the remainder of the case. Athena vs Franziska would be nice. Also it would be the battle of the prodigies.
@@funchildrenchannel3913I think that those are just instances of court-related cases. In terms of murder cases she's been involved in overall, I think I'd have to add in AAI and AAI2 as she worked with Edgeworth there on those cases (even if it was short-lived). But I do agree that she has been dirty in terms of actual court cases.
I’ve seen artwork by Soaptaculart on her pitch for an Ace Attorney 7 starring Athena called “Karmic Conviction” which of course revolves around Franziska, along with her niece Constanze as the Athena’s rival, and also her nephew Klaus as her assistant. I highly recommend checking it out! It’s my favorite AA7 pitch overall! 😁
I will defiantly check it out! And right after uploading I forgot that I would love to see Franziska vs Athena which I implied but never piece together in my mind somehow lol
In my opinion, a case focusing on the blackquill's would be cool, not only does it develop simon and aura more but it may also expand on Athena's and simon relationship.
@@KeDe1606 Yea, that's true. I hope Ace Attorney 7 will not have a new prosecutor if they gonna screw the character up like Nahyuta. ( I think clay and Nahyuta should have been mentioned earlier than later, that could have even more development into their characters)
@@lovemoonforever6068 I feel like they should’ve stuck to there being only 1 main lawyer and prosecutor per trilogy/storyline. Imo, the only reason the „1 prosecutor per game“ approach worked in the beginning, was because of how small the main cast of characters was back then. So they could still be integrated into the story without much hassle. But that isn’t the case anymore. The idea of there always being a new prosecutor that exemplifies the main themes of the games was neat, but the games are just way too short for any of these characters or storylines to really stick. It feels like the games always end _just_ before the new prosecutor really gets going
One issue I have with Kristoph being the main villain is honestly his current status. With the black psyche locks explaination in Dual Destinies, I always thought the implication was Kristoph was mentally destroyed, given Apollo/Phoenix should have "forcefully" broke his psyche locks by their actions. If they follow through with the mentally destroyed route, I could honestly see Kristoph becoming Ace Attorney's first active serial killer, given all previous serial killers were active before the start of the game.
idk im just wondering if he would even still be alive, you know having been convicted of 3 murders. like he's someone that should be dead via death penalty.
@@SJrad I was thinking a storyline where Kristoph manages to breaks out of prison, and maybe Phoenix is taken out of the story as Edgeworth puts him into witness protection and fakes his death. Phoenix's apparent death would be enough reason for Apollo to come back to the States as well, giving a chance to do a full wrap up of Apollo's story.
I was thinking something along those lines of an active serial killer targetting attorneys and prosecutors. Making it Kristoph could actually be the best twist ever even have him (fake out) kill Phoenix at the the end of the game. That way, we can functionally remove him from the story and give the more underdeveloped characters more room to grow.
What I want to see is the return of Franziska as the prosecutor for AA7 if it was to be about Athena. Franziska is pretty much the antithesis to Athena with being courtroom prodigies, where Athena seeks the truth with her ability to understand emotions and her kindness for others, Franziska is cold and ruthless, throwing emotions aside to pursue her conviction rather than the truth using facts and logic. Franziska can get Athena to question whether or not her approach of looking at emotions is truly in the best interest to her client in a way that is blunt spite rather than Blackquill's way that is subtly trying to manipulate her. Maybe she can even get Athena to doubt herself by saying that Phoenix would would of put up a better fight and should be more like him, before Athena learns for herself that she should stop trying to be like him and seek the truth in the way that only she can do. Maybe by stepping in to save Phoenix from loosing a case and taking over it like what he does in the first case of DD.
Good idea but one problem Fransizka already went through her arc Edgeworth and Phoenix already showed her that a perfect record is meaningless and she should prosecute for the sake of the truth I'd want to see a more grown up fransizka who is trying but struggling to follow that life path
@@thechargedfoxie456yt2 Franziska has learned to move on from her perfect record and revenge for her father, but she still believes in 'the perfect case', but now to find the truth instead of personal pride. Her methodology is still to be as strict and ruthless as before (partly out of principle, partly out of her personality), because perfection is still fundamental to her view of how to prosecute someone. I think this could play well off of Athena because that cold and ruthless approach neglects emotions and allows it to be a blindside for Athena to find openings to her case.
Honestly I'm on trucy nation Trucy is extremely underdone She hasnt had a full character arc of her own and has really just been a joke character to bounce off apollo and athena recently The most development for her that we got was magical turnabout and it was amazing Seeing her question herself, unsure of if she actually did it or not Despite her belief of magic she falters and thinks she really could have killed someone Honestly I'd rather Apollo have not been there It should've been an Athena case Apollo and Athena have a good character relationship sure but Apollo believes in trucy Athena is still new to law And hearing someone be unsure of themself, if Athena heard those emotions I feel like she'd be unsure too And seeing how trucy reacts to having no one believes in her, not even herself, would let us see so much more of how trucy works
I actually tbh would be pretty excited for a new prosecutor for Athena to go against, and even a new sidekick tbh. I think it’s kinda crazy that Franziska is the only female prosecutor the game has seen, making it currently a 5-1 ratio across the 6 games. A girl vs girl match-up would be a first for the series and could be fun to include especially when Athena takes the reigns of the Defense table. In fact, if we’re going into a new age of games, given that the Apollo Trilogy being the end of that particular arc, just having a brand new set of new characters all along I feel like would be the freshest for the series.
I like the idea of putting Athena up against a rookie prosecutor - and I think it would be very interesting if the tutorial case had you play as the prosecutor.
I think 2 Apollo cases, 2 Athena case and 1 Phoenix case would be a great way to go. I just hope this game isn't a spiritual successor to DD. That's the first time I've had a major reduction in enjoyment. Blackquill is amazing, Athena would've been great as a minor character, but overall it was a giant unfun mess to me. Make Trucy great again. Bring Klavier back for a proper appearance. I miss Gumshoe. And as seems to be a necessity let's have a repeat of Edgeworth in the final case. And for the love of God let Trucy and Apollo know they're siblings
I think DD and SOJ are very messy, but going back to trying to continue the AJ plotline after all of that will have the exact same problems that DD soft rebooting AJ had. A lot of people are still fond of DD and SOJ. So just abandoning their love in a linear series just wouldn’t work, especially how much Apollo has changed and just needs a break from the spotlight. I think there are new ways to bring focus to other characters like Trucy and Edgeworth and I want Gumshoe to return, but trying to revive the AJ plotline over an Athena focused story and getting that over with would just make it more difficult and amplify the existing problems. And I’m not against Apollo’s return, but I want him more as a mature assistant/friend to Athena imo
18:22 If this "timid rookie prosecutor" isn't Sebastian Debeste, I will riot. It sounds like A) a perfect way to lead off Sebastian's growth in AAI2, with Edgeworth having taken him under his wing, and B) Similarly to Athena having to find her own way without Phoenix's guidance, Sebastian would have to find his own way without Edgeworth. And given the two of them are more outwardly emotional and irrational in their approaches, I feel like Athena and Sebastian could bounce off each other really well (besides, the "smug overconfident rival prosecutor" angle has been done to death several times over)
I really think that Phoenix should become a politician and rewrite the laws so defence attorneys and prosecuters are finaly equals as well eliminate 3 day trial restriction in order to allow the truth to become more easaly uptain able in cases that are being investigated tried. The player's ultimate goal would be to make sure Phoenix sucseeds in his goal. We can even have the player topple a conspiracy, which involves the final boss wanting to inact their own justice system on a (inter)national scale. As for gameplay I would 1st have it be possible for the player to switch from mood matrix to requlair cross-examenination and back, like with the Blackquil cross-exam in Dual Destinies. I would also have it so testemonies are put into the court record. 1 tab for evidence, 1 for profiles and 1 for testemony. I would also bring back multiple witnesses and have the player not only able to persue other witnesses, but also the prosecution, the judge and even your aid. I would also have the prosecution and the judge give testimonies like in the investigation games where they argue why they believe that the defendent is guilty. Also, I know that this ability actually belongs to Edgeworth, but how cool would it be if Logic was used to progress and/or end cross-exams? Finaly, if you've played Hotel Dusk: Room 215 or it's sequel Last Window: Secret of Cape West than you know that when come to conversations often the characters you speak with talk in orange text instead of white and when that happens a yellow triangle appears that when pressed results in your character yelling hold it before than being presented with 2 questions that you can ask the character. So why not incorperate something like that into AA?
I love the logic idea, even if it is just a hint method or just something they include to recontextualize the mystery in some way. Something that ironically fucking Genshin impact did with their ace attorney inspired case they did
@@CoolCarGuy BTW what is your opinions on 3 day trial cases? Mine is that they should only be used in the finale of games. Nina Aquila: Legel Eagle is an Ace Attorney clone (don't know how else to discripe it) made on RPG maker and aside from it's tutorial case all other cases currently available are 6 days long (day 1 investigation day 2 trial day 3 investigation day 4 trial day 5 investigation day 6 trial). However the latter 2 investigation days aren't really spent investigating the crime and more just playing an advanced form of rock paper sissors with nameless npcs in order to eventually gain the oppertunitiy to briefly talk with the suspects of the case. Yes you do learn some new info, but if you eliminate the RPS minigame then you could easaly condence the cases from 6 to 4 days. Anyway, back to Ace Attorney, how I would structure the cases is to have the tutorial have a trial former and a trial latter with the 1st half teaching the basics and the 2nd half testing you by taking down the culprit. However, I would prefere the culprit's identity is not revealed up front and that they aren't complete morons. Turnabout Target is my favorite tutorial case, because it does a really good job at hiding the culprit without it feeling cheap and once the game reveals who it is the culprit only says like 1 stupid thing, but ultimately you take down the culprit, not because the culprit is an idiot, but because ultimately got caught due stuff that was outside of the culprit's controle. Also I think having Klavier or Blackquil be the tutorial would be a nice change of pase as I'm kinda getting sick of the tutorial rival becoming completely trivial after the case is closed. As for the normal cases I would have them be 2 day cases. The 1st investigation is there to introduce you the defendent, the victim and all of the suspects as well as get a glims of what prosecuter's against your client is going to be by speaking with detective. The culprit is absolutly NOT going to be introduced in the 2nd half as I believe that the player should already be able to figure out who the culprit is IF they are really smart and perceptive. The trial would 1st start of with the prosecution having the detective give testimonies in regards to how and/or why the defendent did the deed and after that some eye witnisess show up to give their accounts. The player would either need to 1, come up with an alternative theory in regards to how a 3rd party could have commited the crime or 2, point enough holes in the prosecution's case that an extention is warrented. The 2nd investigation would deeper into the backstory behind some of the charaters involved without it resulting in them being able to figure out who the culprit is by the end of the investigation. The 2nd trial would be split a trial former and and trial latter. The 1st half would have the prosecution either trying to debunk your theory or bring up new stuff in order to make the defendent look bad. They do this by either calling in new witnesses or reusing old 1s. The player starts point out wholes, however this time the judge isn't convinced and so at the end the player needs to use all of the knowlege uptained so far to figure out who the real culprit is and then calling them to the stand. The 2nd half is a boss fight against the culprit where both motive and method are discussed before then using revisualisation to use everything you've learned from the case in order to figure out what piece of evidence is nessery to put the nail in the culprit's coffin. The finaly is a bit tricky, however here is my rough sketch. 1, no case exclusive characters. Having them be in the finaly will result in the player marking them as not being the culprit. 2, have the final boss be introduced in the 1st or 2nd case and give them enough screen pressence for the reveal to not feel cheap. 3, have the prosecution's case be so strong against the defendent that player starts to doubt their innocence. 4, have there atleast 1 red hering that can actually trick the player. And finaly, have the final case connect back to every other case so we don't have any filler, as well as make the mystery more complex.
I love the idea of bringing reebuttals from Ace Attorny Investigations for proseecutors and judges. imagine if it is also used in investigation sections, maybe with the detectives
You are so right about the potential of Athena and Kristoph being foils to each other and I'm so happy to see that I'm the only one who thinks that. And I feel like that could still work, even if Capcom is really bent on a "no spoilers" rule, because Athena is the only character in the main cast who doesn't know anything about Kristoph. So, if she's the main character, she'd be learning about him along with any newcomers to the franchise. ...Which, come to think of it, could lead to a pretty terrifying case if Kristoph somehow manipulated Athena into defending him while Phoenix and Trucy were busy helping Edgeworth. Like, appealing to her past determination to save the falsely convicted Simon and implying that some of the evidence (the bloody ace) was forged. New players wouldn't think anything of it at first, while old players would be losing their minds knowing that Athena is walking into another Matt Engarde situation. And then Klavier catches wind of it at the Prosecutors' Office or something like that. Or Apollo returns from Khura'in at that exact moment. But yeah, all of your ideas are fantastic and now I REALLY want to play an Ace Attorney game with the Mood Matrix in the way that you described. It's such a great way to reinvent gameplay so that it feels new, but still "Ace Attorney." Love the idea of less confident rookie prosecutor as well. That would be such a great change of pace. I honestly don't know how likely any of your ideas are, because I get the impression that Capcom would rather milk in nostalgia with the OT. But I hope I'm wrong, because what you're suggesting sounds exactly like the kind of AA game that I'd want to play.
15:42 Phoenix walking quickly in reverse and sitting the fuck down made me laugh harder than it probably should’ve. I totally love all these ideas about an Athena-focused game, I’d be so happy to play a game like this!!
I was wondering if it'd be a thematically-fitting choice to have Sebastian Debeste as Athena's main rival in court. Athena's a very emotionally-transparent character, and a prosecutor who's similarly open, if a bit toned down, would work fairly well, especially if he's intended to be the type who actively works with the defense like Klavier. Maybe Kay could also return as a detective or private investigator, who'd also mesh really well with Athena. Not only would the two of them be a couple of fun returning characters for those who've played the Investigations games, but they'd also feel especially new to those who haven't. We'd be able to see just how much the Investigations kids have grown into their own since before Phoenix's disbarment, between Sebastian growing and thriving under Edgeworth's leadership as the Chief Prosecutor and cleaning house and Kay developing beyond the Great Thief Yatagarasu into a skilled detective making both Gumshoe and her Uncle Badd proud. Kay could even lend her own technological aid to investigations through use of Little Thief. Though if there's ever another Investigations game, I'd be fascinated by seeing it from either Simon or Nahyuta's perspective. Either one of the two could sort of inherit Edgeworth's Logic Chess mechanic, through Simon's more methodical use of psychology or Nahyuta offering a much more empathetic and even personal approach as a monk, if not being given a much more familiar mechanic in the form of a Magatama like Phoenix's (possibly given to him by his mother). Both of them could use a lot more development beyond Simon's reputation as an ex-con with a "sword" and a Cooper's hawk and Nahyuta's ultimately-feigned-but-infamous prejudice towards defense attorneys. I could definitely jive with either one learning to be a bit more mellowed out and/or getting used to life outside the emotional hellscapes they had to live in for years on end. Adding in the fact that they both behave as older siblings to other main characters in the series could also help their development. Making sibling relationships a theme might also open a door for the Gavin brothers, with Klavier openly acknowledging the atrocities Kristoph could've committed beyond Phoenix's disbarment, and also Apollo and Trucy figuring out their own relationship should they find out they're half-siblings as well.
Ace Attorney 7 needs to fix up most of the biggest problems that Apollo Justice, Duel Destinues, and Spirit of Justice had. 1. Bring back old characters but make them have development and not flanderize them. 2, Have the Jury system actually be apart of the Court. 3. If Athena is going to be brought back show how much she has grown and learned. 4. Do not make Phoneix Wright the main character of the game, instead have him be just a side character 5. Don't reveal the outcome of the killer when the case starts 6. Have more variety of cases instead of always being murder 7. Cut down on the Filler 8. Don't make the Villain obvious from the start 9. Apollo Justice needs to be involved more instead of just being there and not doing much. 10. The Prosecutors don't always have to be evil but they can have ones that are fair and just trying to find the truth
Regarding phoenix as a main character, my view is as follows They tried making him a side character in apollo justice and he came back as a main character in each new game after with spirit arguably being the most focused on him even with them giving apollo another back story. Even the great ace attorney is connected to him tangentially via the main character being his ancestor I personally i just dont see them making a game after apollo where he isnt a main character no matter how much of the fanbase asks for it.
@@TheWheelman298 He could still be A main character, but he doesn't have to be THE main character. Just make him Athena's support in court, nothing more and nothing less.
To expand upon the "rookie prosecutor" idea, I think it'd be great to not only have them introduced in the first case (no more Payne, at least for now), but to have Athena be forced to lose said case, with the truth cloudy and uncertain on whether the defendant was guilty or not, and the rookie prosecutor making a name for themself to mirror Athena's beginnings. This ties into the "special case" that Phoenix is working on, as it turns out that very trial is what they were looking into, with the final episode being a retrial. By then, Athena is looking at the case with a whole new lens and applies what she's learned throughout the game here. And the prosecutor, now more knowledgeable and confident, is putting on a Gavin-like role of focusing on the truth, even if it means losing.
Also, have Maya assist Athena and Trucy assist Phoenix, and have Gumshoe make a return as a private investigator, bumping into Athena during a case, then returning in the final case showing he was working with Phoenix and Edgeworth in the background. Also, when Athena is at a big low point, have Mia and Godot come back in different cases to give their take on "the worst of times are when lawyers force their biggest smiles" as they both have used that phrase and can expand upon it so Athena can find her own meaning behind those words. A great way to bring everything full-circle and close off the series.
I have a few thoughts: I think a cool idea for a new game would be to introduce a corrupt judge, who makes the wrong verdicts for personal gain, with one of the plots of the game being to figure him out and bring him down. Also, Athena hasn't been able to do a case on her own, despite being a prodigy, so I think a game can show Phoenix bailing her out throughout the game, and show her cope with her failures despite her brilliance, but in the end have Phoenix force her to do a trial on her own, forcing her to grow like he had to when Mia died and left him alone. Finally, it is an Apollo Justice trilogy. I thought that before Capcom announced it. The first game showed that Apollo was a competent lawyer. The second game showed his weaknesses, with Phoenix coming in to cover for him. The third game shows Apollo overcoming his weaknesses which were shown in the second game, completing his story becoming a lawyer that can press on no matter how hard it can be for him personally.
An idea I've had that I'm fond of for a future game is one where you can choose which attorney you play as foe each case. This would also play into their unique gameplay gimmicks, with Phoenix being able to use the magatama to get extra information in investigations and apollo and Athena being able to use the bracelet and mood matrix to "interrogate" better in trials. Having different playable characters with different paths through the cases would also give the games more replayability, and if we're looking at a game of 7+ cases, then you could give them each a tutorial case where they're mandatory to introduce them and their gameplay, a few cases where you can pick and choose your route, and then a final case where you have to present mastery of each character while being forced to play different ones in different sections. Maybe there's too much too look into, and they all split up to find info on different things at once? The idea just sounds like a lot of fun to me. But regardless, I definitely think AA7 should focus more on Athena. She deserves so much more than she got, and I'll never forgive 6-4 for taking away her moment in the spotlight for a blackquill cameo
Great video! The parts about the Mood Matrix working kind of like Logic Chess and Athena’s arc in a future game being about learning to deviate from Phoenix’s lessons and choosing her own path are really good ideas!
I want: - The Great Ace Attorney Investigations focusing on Barok van Zieks or Kazuma Asogi (or both of them) - AA7 to take place at a different law agency, they want to eliminate Phoenix, but don't at the same time, but keep tying the game directly to him in some form, it's just confusing.
@@realperson9951 Okay but only if they keep him dead. None of that "lol just kidding" crap they pulled in The Great Ace Attorney. Also no "hey we're going to summon him with a spirit medium whenever we want so it's basically like he's still alive" either.
I know it's super specific, but a case set in a Mars simulation exercise would make for some fun puzzles. You'd have a few people in a shelter in the desert that have to wear spacesuits to go out, with a 20-minute delay to communicate with the outside world. But since it's not really Mars, someone could always break the rules, and someone could even come in from outside. Solving a murder case there would be a real challenge.
@@givlupi2686 oh that's a little embarrassing then. It's a puzzle mystery games and the plan you thought off was eerily similar to some of the things that happen in it
Honestly all the previous prosecutors returning could make for some really interesting cases. Case 1 the prosecutor is Payne because the unwritten rule is that Payne always has to be the first Prosecutor you fight against. (Even Layton Vs Wright did this by having Phoenix battle Bri'ish Payne) Case 2 is Franziska. Case 3 is Klavier. Case 4 is Edgeworth. And finally Case 5 is Blackquill as I feel like Athena having to defeat him all on her own would be incredible and a perfect way to conclude her arc. You could even have Blackquill say something along the lines of 'if your mother was still alive she would have been so proud to see the person you have become.' Hell, if it is seven cases the rookie Prosecutor could be like a recurring antagonist who helps the Prosecutor of each case as an assisstant and gaining experience along the way as sort of a mirror to Athena in DD and SoJ until they eventually become the main Prosecutor of the case just before the final one. (Or if done correctly they could very well prove to be worthy of being the main Prosecutor of the final case and then Sebastian could return for Case 6) Tbh I just want an Athena game because I'm a biased Athena fan.
I heard a brief suggestion that SOJ sets up an Apollo Investigations game. I think that might be good to help conclude his own story, but we’d also need at least another game or two in the main series to finish off some of those plots. I also love the idea that Phoenix and Edgeworth have some big thing to work on in the background. I really do want more interaction between them and Phoenix and Trucy moments. I don’t think she would be allowed to stay with Apollo in Khurain, and it could be that she acts as assistant to Athena. But- not sure about that, I just want Trucy to have some relevance.
18:10 call me crazy but lets say theoretically speaking that there existed a young prosecutor who is connected to Edgeworth that we haven't seen in years. Some might even call him The Best
The Mood Matrix would be a good mechanic to focus on and flesh out, but they'd need to do it really carefully. Some people are just terrible at reading emotions. Unlike something like Phoenix and Apollo's gimmicks where there is visible evidence, emotions are not always rooted in logic. They'd have to write scenarios carefully enough to make it a good puzzle while still making it comprehensible.
(Disclaimer: Phoenix is absolutely my favourite character in series.) I personally hope, that Phoenix dies in the next game, but only after he does something amazing, like change the laws, successfully defend someone we know well or something and then we have to, defend him. Like we say, there was a scene, where someone died and Phoenix didsapeared and would be blamed. So we would have to defend him, without him actually being there and later, we would find out, he was dead. (Or maybe we would know about his death from the start). That would absolutely destroy me. And then after the case is closed, we would get some melancholic cover of Objection 2001, I would cry and then the series can end. Oh god. I on one hand hope this happens and on the other, I hope it won't end like this. But I do want to hear cover of Objection 2001 for the another time in Ace Attorney, since it's been some time since we heard it last time and it's my favourite Objection theme. Also I hope Athena gets more screen time.
I mentioned this before but I am very much against Phoenix dying. While there will be a short term impact of devestation, in the longterm it will just simply ruin the whole feel and theme of Ace Attorney as a whole. Ace Attorney gets dark yes, but never actively killing a major character besides maybe Misty and Dhurke, both of which have their own problems in their own right. And I feel his death with inevitably feel more hollow than anything, and just ruin that feel of optimism the series tries to project. Ace Attorney stays light-hearted and goofy while knowing how to get dark while bordering the line of not making it to mature (besides DD because wtf was that). And I feel an extreme of killing Phoenix will no matter what ruin that light-hearted side of the game and break the line of making it too dark. Ace Attorney has shown they can pull at the heart strings in many other ways, so jumping the gun and killing off phoenix is just an extreme that will ruin the mood of everything
@@CoolCarGuy I totally understand that. As I said. He is my favourite character, but I do want some conclusion to his story in case this would be his last game. So I was just thinking, that if it actually was last mainline AA game, then why not either let Phoenix settle with Iris or something or maybe the other extreme, where he sacrifices himself for someone. (Also DD is my favourite AA game. Maybe partially, because of that one moment. So I quess that's why I don't mind some dark moments.) Also. I really want to say this was really good video. Super edit and some really nice ideas.
Another thing I _wish_ Ace Attorney would do is to completely disconnect the tutorial from the story- make it an optional mini case (think something like the escapades-length) not connected to the story to introduce the gameplay for new players, while returning players can jump right into the story without having to sit through another tutorial. Which also would free up the slot for a more meaningful case.
It’s kind of fair, but also some of the best first cases from the very first turnabout to turnabout beginnings or turnabout trump work very well to not catch the player up to speed mechanically, but to set up the entire theme, feel, and story for the rest of the game. So there are ways to mix it up, like even starting with a mini investigation or just keeping it simple. But overall I feel the tutorial cases more work most to set up everything narratively
Even if we got another Great Ace Attorney set in Japan which follows the formula and story of the last two, I'd be really happy. I love those charactes. My worry is that GAA is so good, the next one will have a tough time following it. To me it's so good, I have a hard time imagining a better AA game.
I am very much for having Susato be the protagonist. Or perhaps a change of pace of playing as the Prosecutor in court with Kazuma. It would be intersting spins continuing franchises that Takumi would def have a perspective in wanting to do
@@CoolCarGuy Maybe they could do both? Solving cases in Japan with Ryunosuke as a defense attorney, and Asogi in Britain as a prosecutor. And then it turns out the cases are connected and Ryunosuke comes back to London or somthing.
I'd really appreciate a closer look at the case that caused Phoenix to lose his bade. And I'd like Apollo and Trucy to find out they're half siblings. Maybe even look more into some of prosecutors backgrounds. We barely know anything about them and any connections to others. Maybe see how other characters are doing in their lives.
The fact that Athena can hear discord in the voices of people can be used for a case too. I would love to see a case where she takes a case but her client had a huge amount of discord in his voice. During the investigations and the first trial day it makes her doubt her client, and even wanting to drop his/her case at the end of the second investigations day. Then Phoenix learning her that sometimes you pick up a client who turns out to be guilty, but that you should still do the best job for your client. Then in trial day 2 it could turn out that the client thinks he's done something wrong to the actual culprit, but turning out to be a simple misunderstanding. The discord disappears and then finding out he was innovent after all
Ok three things 1. Pls Trucy and Apollo neeed to know theyre siblings I think it would be cool to have a spinoff game with Trucy as the main character and she solves cases with Apollo, and at the end they finally, finally finally find out theyre siblings and it can be really cool and stuff It would also be good because she went through some really tragic stuff in AJ1 and they kind of pretend that never happened??? If she were the main character of a game she could have this really epic arc where she finally grows a personality that isnt related to being a magician Also cuz then they could focus a little more on her relationship with Phoenix whos supposed to be like a father figure to her (well yeah cuz he adopted her obviously) but whenever you see them interact in the games they just act like friends It feels lazy, they should really do something about that 2. Kay needs her own Yatagarasu team Kay wants a team of young, talented girls right? Umm just look at the main series?? She would make a really cool team with Ema and Athena And they all have tragic backstories, they can be best friends!!!!!!! (A spinoff game for a spinoff game?) 3. Debeste needs to come back and be a cool prosecutor or something Everyone liked his character (I think) He has room for a character arc It would be cool to have a game playing as a prosecutor (who actually goes to court) (A spinoff game for a spinoff game?? Again??) (Although I guess I would also be just as happy if he was in the main series) (Just bring him back pls) TL;DR: I just want more spinoff games
I do like the idea of the prosecutor being an older one, perhaps even all the prosecutors making a cameo if it’s the final game. It would make a nice wrap up for the series as a sort of reminiscence on all the events in the series
About Athena going into a character arch is really cool. But I did saw that in a fan project before and OMG is really dark. The project is called elements of justice, is a sequel to an old fan case called turnabout storm. And yes, is a mlp fan case with ace attorney, but not let that distract you on how good this project is and how good Athena's internal conflict to try to be like phoenix Wright is portrayed here. I know MLP is very infamous but you have to watch this, is really good. And like I said, really dark, and tragic, a direction you would never see in a official ace attorney game
ruclips.net/p/PL347AD9B9E509804A&si=Tr6by2RX4pyvFDmZ This is the turnabout storm. Keep in mind that this was made serveal years ago and it may be not that good but this is the prequel to:
@Elevada_Forester easy the channel literally named elements of justice. Then watch from case 1 all the way up to case 3 Episode 2 I'm so excited to see more EoJ it's so exciting
Unpopular opinion, but I’d like to see an Ace Attorney prequel, possibly a game focusing on Mia Fey, her lawyer journey after 3-1 and how she took Phoenix under her wing. Many old characters can return too, including most of those in 1-5.
@@a-s-greigYes! I want to know: where is Lana Skye and why Emma has seemed to have forgotten she even has sister since she is never even mentioned in the later games?!? Her absence seems utterly bizarre to me, given how emotional the end of Rise From the Ashes was.
I hope one day in the future, my dream Ace Attorney game gets made. That dream being playing as a detective, a decently experienced one at that, allowing you the player to become the first ever competent detective that solves stuff (minus Sholmes maybe, I haven't played DGS 2 yet). Then, your "sidekicks" are both a rookie defense attorney and prosecutor, both of which follow you around like Maya or Trucy. Culminating into a final case where the detective main character gets injured as part of the set up for the final case and you play as the rookie attorneys flailing their way through the final case.
So an idea I've always had for an Athena game would be that while she's visiting her relatives in Europe, the same ones who took care of her after her mother died, she gets caught up in a bunch of legal shenanigans, this would help separate this hypothetical Athena game from the others and providing a reason why Phoenix and Apollo aren't there
Dude, it's eerie how close your idea of an Athena game is to mine. Back in 2017, I came up with a story for a fancase where Athena is all alone in Christmas taking care of the office while Phoenix and Trucy are on vacation elsewhere. She takes a softball case where one of her favorite players is accused of hitting the catcher to death with the bat. Blackquill is the prosecutor. Athena loses the case, making her question her worth as a lawyer, but then the killer is charged with another murder and Athena has to decide whether to defend her or not. If not, the first killer would get the death penalty for a crime she didn't commit, but it would be somewhat of a win for Athena because she's a murderer anyway and had it coming, but then the second killer would get off scot-free. By defending her, Athena catches the second killer and has the chance to overturn the first verdict, creating more tension between her and the first killer, like "you just proved me innocent of one crime, and now you want to prove me guilty of another, some lawyer you are". Alas, the case spiraled out of control with how big and convoluted it got. I even tied it to the jury system from Apollo Justice, giving an explanation as to why it was scrapped. Apollo would even be playable in a flashback case! But I never made it true. Turns out designing three cases and three trials is super hard. Instead I made a small case with Edgeworth and Phoenix 5 months after Bridge to the Turnabout. It's called Turnabout In Plain Sight and it's in Ace Attorney Online, if anyone's interested. But yeah, I would love it if Athena got her own game.
I'm actually making my own Ace Attorney 7 (yay fan games) and I'm using a lot of your ideas for the Mood Matrix already, but you added some that are really solid. I might just take some of those suggestions. One thing I did do though: add new emotions. I added fear and shame to the Mood Matrix, and that freed up the blue emotion to be sadness and despair. What's more, we never see character's emotions change. They always feel the same way about events that occurred. But what if Athena could change their perception of what happened? What if she made them so comfortable, she got an inaccurate reading because they no longer feel that way? That's what I'm trying to play with here. Emotions are inherently unstable. I liked what you said about Athena breaking down too. I've been struggling a lot with what to do for her overall arc, but that's a great idea and I might actually work it in. The idea I had before was more generic and similar to the Apollo arc I had planned. This is a solid idea. The main issue with that is Phoenix's advice about forcing a smile is advice he doesn't follow in the trilogy. He's always getting emotionally swept up in his cases, and this also occurs in Dual Destinies, making him outright hypocritical (but I hated Dual Destinies Phoenix so that's just me being mad about the character assassination). So I'm also playing with that, giving Phoenix a case that he has such an intense emotional attachment to that other characters start to become uncomfortable and he realizes he's getting too close but, at this point, is in too far. I also like that you said something about not adding new prosecutors, as that's been obnoxious and unnecessary for a while now. I'm bringing back Franziska to conclude her arc and give the player more insight into who she is, not to mention letting her mature by 10 years and putting her against Athena and Apollo. That being said, your idea for the new prosecutor was great and I think that's really solid. I'm kind of doing that with a new judge. We've had that old bearded guy forever. Let's shake things up. Also the 7-case format is brilliant and I'm glad you said it because I was actually contemplating doing a mini-case but wasn't sure if it was a good idea. Plus I'm finding that I prefer the Danganronpa format of one investigation, one trial. It made my first two cases a lot simpler. Anyway I'm totally rambling. Point is, I think your ideas are good for the main series continuation. It would make things more interesting for sure.
EDIT: I just finished watching the video and your pitch is awesome! I'm completely sold! If Capcom does that then we'll live in a good timeline - Eh, I don't think the spoiler rule is actually a thing tbh. Major spoilers are generally off the table, but previous events have certainly been referenced in the past, like DL-6 or the events of Reunion, And Turnabout. It's just that AA4 was a pretty stark departure from the series and DD and SoJ are mostly self-contained games by nature. On another note, it was very cool that you included kanji names for Takumi and Yamazaki! It was just a nice addition c:
Thx I just like to include their kanji names out of respect for them. Also even if the spoiler rule may or may not be entire true or at least consistent, I think the consequences of CapCom’s unwillingness to continue a lot of key plot lines is apparent, hence why this theoretical spoiler rule is still actively claimed
@CoolCarGuy Fair enough, that does seem to be happening recently (though I wonder if it's a Yamazaki thing). Btw I just finished watching the video (I edited my comment too) so great job on that!! Your pitch was really good
EXCUSE ME DO YOU REALISE THE STORY YOU SET FOR ATHENA IS BASICALLY JFA BUT WITH HER AS A COMBINATION OF PHOENIX AND FRANZISKA i mean this in the best way possible. jfa has so many good themes and so much juice that wasnt really explored well (mainly between edgeworth and his deaths effect on phoenix and franziska respectively) and it was also a lot about legacy. there was this whole part where phoenix staunchly believes prosecutors are evil and "the point of being a defense attorney" was to be a force of good only for that to lead up to and implode in the last case (an amazing conclusion) cuz he did end up finding his "point" and athena should have an arc like that as well :D
I honestly didn’t realize but now that you mention it, that is exactly what I really want them to do. I know Athena’s arc does reuse some elements from other characters, mainly Edgeworth’s backstory with some Maya moments, but Athena herself as a character is unique enough that she needs to find her own purpose like Phoenix did in JFA Very good point you made thx
i absolutely love both ace attorney and ghost trick, a crossover would be incredible. takumi says himself that he would be interested in a crossover where phoenix dies.
@@CoolCarGuy i really wonder how the cast of characters would come together if we considered the crossover happening after ghost trick ended. spoilers below after the game ended and everything came back to how it was, missile and yomiel were back to normal, and they are both extremely important characters. characters like lynne, kamila, jowd and cabanela could easily be incorporated into an ace attorney game, but missile and yomiel were relevant to the plot mostly because of their powers. but maybe it would be cool to see yomiel after his redemption arc lol
If i was to make AA7 I would do like Shu Takumi did with the great ace attorney and tried to do with Apollo Justice and flush all the old cast and make up a new one. The big problem since AA4 is that Shu Takumi wanted to get rid of Phoenix because his arc was concluded and he wanted to start from scratch storywise but Capcom wanted their sweet brand recogintion. And the great ace attorney writing went back to Takumi who did what he wanted with Apollo and featured and entirely new cast and boy does it show in comparison to 5 and 6 which feel more like AA fanfic with original-do-not-steal characters most people don't care about and that the writers couldn't be bothered to flesh out properly like giving Apollo a new backstory in each game and then giving Athena a backstory which we never talk about after ever because in the end it mattered only for that one trial despite how fucked up and traumatic that backstory was. Those who have made the latest numerical games don't seem to get that the reason why they were popular isnt because there was a ton of gimmicks in the gameplay, it's that we followed Phoenix and Maya and witnessed their growth and bond as fleshed out characters. And like yeah...Athena's backstory is tragic but does it even matter past the trial where it was relevant? Nope. And then she just reverts back to quirky girl archetype and it's never adressed ever again which kinda tends to make me forget that Athena even had a tragic backstory. It's as if in the trilogy they completely stopped talking about Mia as if her death had no impact on the characters. But thats the problem from 4 to 6. The characters are inconsistent, the plot is inconstitent and it relies more on more on moon logic to solve the problems. Get rid of all the characters, get rid of all their stupid gimmicks and go back to basics. A well written new arc with new comers we will learn to know and love.
Twas honestly a banger of a video. Definitely agree with the shorter cases thing, main reason i want investigations 3 so that we can have more of this kind of thing
I really don't see Kristoph being alive for another game. He was convicted of two murders, attempted a third giving him serial killer status, forged evidence and, crucially, framed another attorney for it. There is just no way a world in which Dahlia Hawthorne got the rope for 1 murder and 2 attempteds (officially) that Kristoph Gavin didn't.
I think it should be similar to SOJ with its character balancing SOJ balanced Phoenix and Apollo well but Apollo still felt like the star by the end Do this but replace Apollo with Athena
I really like your idea! You are essentially taking the loose threads that Apollo Justice left for the possible sequel, and applying them to the characters of Dual Destinies (I really love the idea of Athena and Kristoph being sort of the whole opposites of each other), and also how you are analyzing in more depth the core values of the series. I always had doubts about wheater or not an Ace Attorney 7 would make me satisfied considering how much the Apollo Justice Trilogy just made the storyline a giant mess (not saying the games are bad, but they really have lots of issues when it comes to the plot-line), but I think this video really made me see that there is a possibility for it to work in a satisfactory way. I really hope Shu Takumi and his team are up to the task, but I gotta say you did a great job so Im sure they can manage. Great video!
Actually I wouldn’t want Kristoph. I want The Phantom. Imagine if one of the cases is defending someone falsely accused of being the sniper. Attempted murder instead of actual murder. The man who killed Athena’s mother, the only person who almost hid his emotions from even her. Imagine him being a Hannibal Lector style character. Either revealing his real face or always keeping him in shadow in creative ways.
I totally agree with you! Especially with the mood matrix, we could get very interesting sections with him like we did in 5-5! Also so many people think that he died, but the game said he didn’t. Oh well-
Can i just say, I LOVE how your concept of the mood matrix works. Ive never been a fan of any of the new ginmicks introduced in the modern trilogy, apecifocally because they dont feel very alligned with the main mechanics of the series. But utilising Logic chess aswell as Jury Rebuttals and multiple witnesses is genuis! Jury rebuttals in GAA has always been more persuation than logic, since the juror are very emotionally fickle and quick to cast judgement, convincing them is a matter of using their reactions to you advantage, a perfect with a psychology expert like athena. Logic chess follows a similar design as it doesnt rely on presenting evidence but rather your own words and how they effect your target. These are great tools for an empathetic indivual like Athena and a great extension of her abilities. Well done!
fun fact, I think a jury system, like seen in TGA, was a scrapped feature in AA5. If you look in the concept art in the Apollo Justice Trilogy for AA5's backgrounds you can see a new courtroom setting that has either a jurist area or scales with weights.
I feel the one and only way we could get Phoenix to be mostly out of the picture, he would have to retire. He’s been doing this for so long, I feel as though it only makes sense. Especially if they do a lengthy timeskip
i want to see athena losing case. i remember the time when phoenix got guilty verdict while in khurain. it was 1st time i felt thrilled by an ace attorney game. lawyers not always win a trial
Wait Franzika and Gumshow aren’t AA characters anymore? Why, why have they taken my children away from they’re gods But hinestly Franziska being a the most prodigy prodigy to ever progicute she going up against Athena would be a great parallel I’ve also always loved the idea of Klavier and Blackquill or Franziska as a dynamic, Klavier and Blackquil getting whipped would be amazing and Klavier personality plays off both their hyper serious personality’s so well and I just want the prosecutors to interact man
In terms of other kinds of cases, I think Great Ace Attorney stumbled on an interesting idea with attempted murder. Especially in GAA2-2. That set up allowed the victim to be a hostile witness you need to fight, which is a very fresh angle to cases. I think the next game really needs to be Athena focused and it needs to focus on her dynamics with Phoenix and Blackquill. If they do a new prosecutor like usual then I think Blackquill should swoop in as the final case prosecutor, like how Edgeworth prosecuted 2-4.
honestly you gave so many great mechanic ideas that i woulc LOVE to see implemented in the future AA games ! Personnally I still kinda wish to see a game with Mia as the main character, but I know it's too soon...
3:54 - 4th option. Mia prequel. I will always be down for the idea of a Mia Fey: Ace Attorney where college aged Phoenix interns at her office and takes on the assistant role.
honestly if it were to be a "new" prosecutor. Id like it to be Sebastian Debest. Edgeworth would happy to entrust him to move forward with prosecution and can be as emotive with Athena. And his theme to conduct the mood and "flow" of the trial. Which could parallel of the use of emotions in the court. Honestly i can see Athena and Sebastian a good duo for interactions. possiably how he can hold control of his emotions while walking forward simmilar to phinoxe's motto, but his own path to reach the truth.
I'm pretty sure AA7 will finally see the return of not only Franziska and Gumshoe but also many characters from the Investigations series. I could totally see Kay having become a rookie defense attorney and Athena being her mentor while going head-to-head against Franziska in the courtroom. Gumshoe would be the detective and maybe we'd even see Justine Courtney as a judge in one case. Maybe we'll also see Apollo and Nayuta in a DLC case. I think this would give pretty great character development for Athena while also having the opportunity to bring back a lot of past characters. EDIT: I also do think we need a flashback case between Phoenix and Athena on how they met. In Dual Destinies, Athena mentioned that Phoenix helped her out of a tough situation but we never got any more details. That would be a great idea to put more of the spotlight on Athena.
I had an idea long ago that they should make an Ace Attorney game, but when you get to the defendant and take the case, you choose which lawyer will take the case. Yeah, that would have been a lot of work on the devs, but that would also add replay value. It would also be the best way to show how different the lawyers are/can be. Now that I've heard your idea, I kind of want two pretty similar cases, but one for each lawyer. Phoenix will breeze through the early parts of the trials due to experience, but he has to find an alternate way to deal with emotional witnesses; where Athena will struggle to make her arguments come through (perhaps requiring her to present three pieces of evidence to make the trial move forward, where Phoenix only needed one because thanks to his experience, he thought that far ahead already) but thanks to the Mood Matrix will get an easier time with emotional witnesses. It would have been amazing to see these differences. Maybe after the last case, Phoenix do understand that Athena should be doing Athena things, while Athena takes a level in lawyering and gets to understand that the smiling thing has its merits, even if she has a hard time with it. And from there, we can afford to see Phoenix being an equal to Athena rather than a mentor, to possibly end up being someone Athena doesn't feel like she has to rely upon.
If we get a new trilogy, I hope Capcom learns from the mistakes they made with Apollo's. Relying on the original Trilogy too much was a misstep, particularly when they didn't have anything new to do with the cast (Phoenix not having any personal arcs, Maya showing up just to be kidnapped/accused of murder again, Pearl just being there, etc.). Besides, there were a bunch of characters from 4 - 6 that had potential if they were revisited, which they never got to be. I imagine Vera Misham could have a fun interaction with a therapist attorney, for example.
Not a fan of Athena but must admit that her finding out and defending a guilty client while trying to hide that from her boss would be very compelling. It also adds a new layer to the trilogy of such cases. Your mentor fanfiction scene even seamlessly fits in as well. Would be nice for Franziska to return as Prosecutor where she both mentors and scolds Athena for her mistakes, especially as they both have been known as "prodigies" and the weight of that. While I like your Mood Matrix Interrogation, I think killing Lamiroir is the way to go. Tragic family murders are a big thing in Ace Attorney and would be a compelling way of uniting Apollo and Trucy continuing the Gramarye Tale as well. It really forces them into the position of exploring the past narrative which they have really needed a push for.
I want widget to do something because all they show of them is just saying "He BlUrTs OuT wHaT iM tHiNkInG sOmTiMeS" and then he does it once abd never again
I'd love a Mia Fey : Ace Attorney game (Gyakuten Saiban 0) which develops things like her decision to become a lawyer, her relationships with Phoenix, Maya, Pearl, Lana, Grossberg and Godot, her investigations about Misty's disappearance and her journey to becoming a top attorney. Another possibility would be a Klavier Gavin Investigations game that would finally slove the mystery around Kristoph and the black psyche locks
Honestly that's been one of the best AA writting i've seen in a while, that whole Athena Arc really could be what she needs to develop, although i'd make some changes to it, mostly regarding the Prosecutor and Nick, In my mind i think Franziska should be her rival during this game, mostly because Fran would more or less be a twist in the mentoring thing, Fran's more interested in testing Athena and see if she even got it in her to be an attorney, maybe even pushing more pressure on her about being a protogy but in a less than intentional way, every trial she's not in it to win but mostly as to pressure Athena to evolve, maybe their first trial against each other she's holding back and Athena realizes it and in annoyance ends up bringing it to Fran after the trial, in which Fran starts slowly taking Athena more seriously, always back handedly praising Athena if not simply damming with faint praise, more things that push down on Athena and make her question if she even wants this, and then she ends up meeting another attorney, Kristoph who recently started acting as an attorney again, pretty much exactly what Black Quill was doing in Dual Destinies, i want Kristoph to be a even more twisted mentor to Athena, Kristoph knows of Athena's whole deal, and he wants to use her if possible, i wouldn't really say Kristoph would become a co-council for her, maybe in a single trial but more often than not he'd be at a arms lenght of her, doing his own thing and working on his own cases, and when Athena's breaking into tears at the Wright & Co Agency, Kristoph's the one who shows up not Nick since he'd be busy and out of the country, and then Kristoph uses this chance to approach her even more and then gains her full trust, just like he needed in order to then push her to taking on his up coming re-trial, since Nick and Apollo would be out of the country, this would be Kristoph's perfect chance to walk away free and for that he's gonna need a defence attorney, Athena Cykes the person he ended up gromming for just that
I think a really cool idea is to have someone with DID that Athena has to Cross Examine, Specifically with the Mood Matrix. And specifically someone who doesn’t know they have DID. Especially because I have read that there are different types of personalities and that they either A: can't remember something another Alter did Or B: feel no emotion towards the memory that another Alter did. So it would be cool for someone to testify, show emotion towards what they are saying and then the next day, act differently and have to give basically the same testimony as yesterday except, there are parts they forget and they show no emotion towards stuff that they should and you need to reveal that they have DID. And when you try to pick at why they have DID, black psyche locks form. I think that could be cool...i could also be completely wrong about how DID works. But if I am correct, I think a case with someone with DID would be cool.
Gonna be ahead of the curve and lay down my own feelings on what I’d like from the next Ace Attorney game. While I’m not against an Athena focused game or trilogy, I’d personally prefer a whole new cast and maybe setting. I sorta struggle to imagine what they could even do to advance Athena’s character without tacking on disconnected backstories like what Capcom did to Apollo, and I don’t want Athena to be muddled like Apollo. Also… I want to move on from Phoenix. His story is done and while I believe Dual Destinies handled his character decently, Spirit of Justice annoyingly made him feel like a rookie again at times because there’s apparently a rule that Phoenix has to have a backbone made of wet paper, tape, and a lotta prayer so we can have our tired “Phoenix is shocked and overwhelmed and cowering at what the hell to do and we need him to overreact when the prosecutor basically assaults him” moments. A new cast, main character, and setting could help bring more freshness and possibilities for the IP. The Great Ace Attorney was a fantastic departure from the main series and I want more games like it with its own focus without any baggage from the original trilogy and its haphazard second “trilogy”. Just my two cents though, looking forward to seeing your ideas! Edit after watching video: Excellent video and ideas (though personally I want nothing to do with Kristoph and his petty ass) and it made me rethink how Takumi could give Athena the spotlight she deserves. However on the gameplay side of things I really think Capcom should focus on making the investigations segments better. The trials are engaging enough as is with what they've established, but the investigations need more to make them less of a slog.
I feel the same way! I’d be down for an Athena game, but I’m mostly just wanting a female-led game in general. There’s a lot of cool female characters in AA but none of them have had their name on the box, so to speak, and I think Athena is probably our best chance at this point lmao (I mean my dream next game is a Franziska investigations but I know that is not gonna happen lol). I think it could be cool if they aged Athena up a few years in the future and maybe gave her more depth that way? Or, like you said, a totally new cast would work well too. Excited to see this video!
@@EF-kk3vh you can actually make the villians a lot more physicly imposing without needing to give them crazy designs if the protagonist is female. It would also make them a lot harder to spot.
So you want a game with Kristoph as villain and Klaviar as prosecutor that solves Apollo's plot lines but with Athena that is just like AA4 when they made Apollo a plot device for phoenix's story AA7 would just make Athena a plot device a better story is to make one of her friends the prosecutor (the boy who turned out to be a girl) while the other is her assistant like juniper or the lawyer bot don't remember his name and the main conflict to be about where did the phantom come from like someone like that can't exist from thin air imagine if there is an organization that raise street kids to be emotionless And for the first idea I think it should be for the final Apollo game for him to finish his own story for once that way both of them have there own stories with there own cast of characters and nick should be a member of the bar association
You know, the thing that bothered me is that, the further series go, the less of a rival prosecutors seem, OG trilogy had always written the opposing side with that in mind: With Miles there was a clash of ideals and trauma. Franziska wanted to spite Miles, because she felt left behind, and Godot simply hated Wright, but in reality could not move on from the tragedy that befelled him. Not to mention every single prosecutor grown after each game (we can't really tell with Godot due to him being the final prosecutor in trilogy, but his final words show that he indeed, started to heal). In the new trilogy? Gavin was nothing BUT truth seeking and willing to work with Apollo. Simon, in fact, besides his sadistic exterior was always a caring person, who was wrongly accused, and was willing to die for someone he knew. In DD Gavin was reduced to a blink and you'll miss it cameo, and SoJ Blackquill just doesn't have a death sentance hanging over his head. Here's what i think: Why not break the established formula and have different prosecutors for each case? Instead of them changing their ways, each one would impart a lesson on Athena instead. We have a pretty decent list of prosecuting attorneys already, even without putting Edgeworth into it for the sake of fanservice. Also add more interactions with said prosecutors outside of courtrooms, heck add some in between cases, like imagine going to detention center only to see that questioning isn't done and meet the prosecutor you just won against in previous trial finished questioning suspect for a different trial, unrelated to yours. And because said prosecutor stopped acting like dick towards defence attorney, actually talk, compare notes, maybe even in one case provide a theory that can be used to turn around the trial at a crucial point.
Watching this video has made me muse about this idea for a Ace Attorney Fanfic if I ever bother to go through with it that is since it's still a WIP. It also happens to be an idea for "Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney" where Phoenix is still around but mainly seems more focused on laying back and just taking care of the Agency. Given his prominence at this point and the wacky courtroom antics he dealt with up to now, especially the ones from Khu'rain, he'd likely be laying back or at least, focusing more on the larger cases (like you have suggested) thrown his way while leaving Athena with the smaller ones. Funnily enough, this idea also involves introducing an OC that will be Athena's sidekick who is a young boy that just so happens to tag along with her. The reason is definitely silly but I'll just leave it at that. How he'd meet her would also involve Athena meeting a familiar witness from Spirit of Justice... and her tagging along with them as well. Other returning characters seem to mostly draw from Investigations such as Sebastian Debeste who I think would be fun to have as the Prosecutor for her cases, especially the first one(s). I kinda wanted to build off from how in the end of Investigations II, he kinda needs to form his own identity. Simon Blackquill's involvement would come in a later case or rather, a partocularly big one which spoiler alert! Will likely be kept secret from the public. Oh and uh, technology is a notable element in the story, especially with that OC sidekick (which could he compared to a new game mechanic or something similar if this were actually a game).
I have lots AND LOTS of ideas for future Ace Attorney games! Such as *Athena gets her own trilogy *Apollo eventually returns *Possibly a new female defense attorney *Athena get her own partner/assistant (I imagine a boy since Phoenix and Apollo have Maya and Trucy) *A new female prosecutor for my Athena trilogy hope above (imagine a young woman who is the opposite of Pre-Character Devolopment Franziska) *Dick Gumshoe, Maggey Byrde, Larry Butz, Winston Payne, The Tenmas, Juniper Woods, Robin Newman, Hugh O'Conner, Myriam Scuttlebutt, Solomon Starbuck, and The Judge's Brother all return (in anyways anyhow) *more female murderers and culprits *Representation in general (racial, lgbtq+, disabilites, etc) *More breakdowns of course!
Whether it's an Apollo or Athena game all I ask is that it's not PHOENIX AGAIN. I'm genuinely sick of the other cast getting pushed aside because Phoenix makes more money. I'm still appalled they consider DD and SOJ as "Apollo games".
4:43: What reboot? There wasn't any reboot in Apollo's trilogy!. Also, his story fits perfectly in every subsequent game. We know very little of Apollo in Apollo Justice (being honest, Phoenix got the most attention in said game), all we know is that he was born a Gramarye, his father died in an accident and that he grew in a foster home. In Dual Destinies we discover what his life was like in said orphanage, meanwhile in Spirit of Justice we learn what his life was like prior to going to said orphanage, what caused his father to die (and who his father was) and how he was raised since he was a baby. None of this contradicts what was setup in Apollo Justice.
the problem with the reboots is that it kind of recontextualizes a lot of what occurred in Apollo Justice and make Apollo divide into three seperate characters with three different stories compared to one continuous story filtering into a development. And a lot of the back stories just doesn't make sense. Like why would Apollo never mention he was raised in a foreign nation. And then his father and step-brother being attorneys in their own right, yet only mentions Phoenix being an inspiration for him to be a lawyer in Apollo Justice. And even if it is like "Apollo doesn't bring up his past often," it is like then what about Clay? In Dual Destinies he constantly brought up his "BEST FRIEND" despite never mentioning him in Apollo Justice at all. And if they are such close friends, why did Clay never come to even call Apollo on his first day as a lawyer or ever appear in the entire events in Apollo Justice? Apollo is very willing to share new parts about himself. But even just taking away those little plot holes/contrivances within Apollo's own backstory, it just turns Apollo's character into just a filtering of character events. The twists to Apollo's characters is told through the events of the past he never brought up ever, so it just becomes less substantial and a superficial method of doing character development, making the events of the past be more telling than the character being impacted by said events. Maybe if they finally actually connect the events together more smoothly instead of trying to fill in the blanks with random bullshit because they were never brought up would kind of make the development stronger. Especially if in AJ they established that friendship between Clay and Apollo earlier and then demonstrate the impact his death had by making him even more present in the final trial then maybe I would concede. But compared to say Phoenix's time in college filtering into his story and offer a converging point between him and Godot, the Apollo extra backstories just feel like twist fluff. Little substance and short term impact.
@@CoolCarGuy *"and make Apollo divide into three seperate characters with three different stories"* No, it does not. Nothing in Apollo's trilogy divides Apollo's character more than Phoenix's trilogy would divide his. It might not be told in one straight line, but nothing in Apollo's backstory causes any contradiction. *"Like why would Apollo never mention he was raised in a foreign nation."* Because Apollo is the kind of person that never talks about his past till it becomes relevant. I mean, Apollo himself also did not mention much of his past in Apollo Justice either, so this would be a "problem" of said game as much as it is a problem of SoJ. *"And then his father and step-brother being attorneys in their own right, yet only mentions Phoenix being an inspiration for him to be a lawyer in Apollo Justice."* That can also be explained. Nahyuta (at the time Apollo was left in the orphanage) would have been too young to be a lawyer; Apollo was simply trying to fully forget who Dhurke was at the time, ergo, he wouldn't admit that Dhurke was part of the reason why Apollo is a lawyer. *"it is like then what about Clay?"* Because Clay was the victim of said case, his past with Clay became pertinent to the case at hand. *"why did Clay never come to even call Apollo on his first day as a lawyer or ever appear in the entire events in Apollo Justice?"* Eh, being an astronaut, he was probably busy. So he maybe simply couldn't make it. Or maybe he did make it and we (the player) just did not see it because it wasn't important for the plot. I will remind you that Maya was continually visiting Phoenix yet she doesn't appear in-person till SoJ, so this can happen. The third possibility is simply that Clay did not bother to contact Apollo. Believe it or not, that can happen, that is how my friends and I interact quite often. *"it just turns Apollo's character into just a filtering of character events."* That sounds a lot like Phoenix as well, not gonna lie. He also lacks much backstory (even more so than Apollo had) and he was also used to guide the player through character events. *"The twists to Apollo's characters is told through the events of the past he never brought up ever, so it just becomes less substantial and a superficial method of doing character development,..."* Dude, this describes like 90% of characters in fiction. It sounds to me like you simply don't like when a character's past is explored further in sequels to the work that said character debutted in. *"Maybe if they finally actually connect the events together more smoothly..."* Why? Not every single event in a character's life has to be fully connected to each other, that would be way way too contrived and confusing to do. *"Especially if in AJ they established that friendship between Clay and Apollo earlier and then demonstrate the impact his death had by making him even more present in the final trial then maybe I would concede."* Something that would require filler lines and scenes to do and that would just add fluff to the story of Apollo Justice because Clay Terran would serve literally no purpose in said game. *"But compared to say Phoenix's time in college filtering into his story and offer a converging point between him and Godot,..."* I will remind ya that there was no indication in the first two games of Phoenix's trilogy that he either knew Mia from his college years, nor that he dated "Dahlia" at all. That was added in in Trials and Tribulations in the same way DD added Clay Terran to Apollo's backstory.
Not going to lie, it just feels like over complicated ways to justify large leaps in logic on part of the writers. There is a lot of mental gymnastics that has to go to try and connect them when they aren't really thoroughly defined throughout the games. There is just too much different and just makes Apollo's character grown more about digging up the past that somehow exists compared to building it up as moments of him having to confront his past. Lets compare this to Rocket from The Guardians Movies. He is very vocal he doesn't want to dredge up his past until it inevitably catches up to him in the third movie. Not only is his dark and complicated past referenced and set up, it is clearly shown they are impactful aspects to his character even when not directly revealed. Yet with Apollo's story between Apollo Justice to Dual Destinies to Spirit of Justice, there is no flow to them, there is barely any substance leading the past elements up to the final cases, and it makes Apollo's development entirely disconnected and broken apart. There is no build up, no slow growth, just the past showing up instead of being slowly developed. Even with Phoenix's where despite his college not being established, throughout the game itself you can see moments where he references his disdain for what Dahlia did to him, and we are actually able to see the impact Dahlia had on him in the FIRST CASE. We barely even knew Clay existed until case 4 of Dual Destinies. And speaking of clay, i just entirely disagree that Clay and Apollo's past isn't pertinent to the case because you just entirely lose that emotional appeal or emotional sympathy you would have that Apollo himself is feeling. We just see Clay as another victim and not emotionally distraught like Apollo was. Like look at the reveal that the death of Elise Deauxinum was Misty Fey. That has more emotional significance knowing that Maya has been wanting to meet her mother for years only for the revelation that she will never meet her mother because she died trying to save her. That has a way more emotional impact compared to Apollo off chance saying "I have a best friend!" and then suddenly he is dead. there is nothing that makes me care for Clay before, during, or after his death which would then make me understand more of why Apollo is becoming so belligerent because we are only TOLD how Apollo feels about clay and not experiencing it. The events themselves are just half baked, and just feels more like retcons because "oh it is a grey area so we can write whatever we want in it." It just makes it so disconnected just to give a very mid development of Apollo's character
@@CoolCarGuy *"it just feels like over complicated ways to justify large leaps in logic on part of the writers."* Your reasoning for why it doesn't work feels like this as well. *"There is a lot of mental gymnastics that has to go to try and connect them when they aren't really thoroughly defined throughout the games."* Again, the same happens in 90% of fiction when a franchise grows and gets sequels. *"There is just too much different and just makes Apollo's character grown more about digging up the past that somehow exists compared to building it up as moments of him having to confront his past."* Dude, not only this ignores how, as I keep saying, this is just how a franchise normally grows, but you are also ignoring how Apollo himself grows in his skills as a lawyer and how he becomes more and more confident over his abilities at being a lawyer. *"Not only is his dark and complicated past referenced and set up, it is clearly shown they are impactful aspects to his character even when not directly revealed."* Yet nothing of the sort was even hinted at in the prior movies he was part of (a problem you seem to have with Apollo's backstory). Prior to GotG Vol.3 I couldn't even guess that is what his backstory was about because there weren't any hints to that being the case. *"Yet with Apollo's story between Apollo Justice to Dual Destinies to Spirit of Justice, there is no flow to them,..."* Again, because not everything in a character's life must be connected. It is fine if a character goes on adventures and has experiences that is not connected between "sagas", this just makes the character way more complex. *"throughout the game itself you can see moments where he references his disdain for what Dahlia did to him, and we are actually able to see the impact Dahlia had on him in the FIRST CASE."* No, there are no hints to this whatsoever, especially not in the first case of the franchise. You are reading way way too much right now. *"And speaking of clay, i just entirely disagree that Clay and Apollo's past isn't pertinent to the case because you just entirely lose that emotional appeal or emotional sympathy you would have that Apollo himself is feeling."* When did I say the oppossite? What I said was that Clay existing wasn't pertinent to any other cases that are not the final 2 of DD. It is not pertinent at in Apollo's debut game and adding him in would just be fluff for said game. *"Like look at the reveal that the death of Elise Deauxinum was Misty Fey. That has more emotional significance knowing that Maya has been wanting to meet her mother for years only for the revelation that she will never meet her mother because she died trying to save her."* Am sorry, but I not only feel that this death, but also this case (and the entire game as a whole) are quite overrated in my opinion. We not only not interact with Misty enough for her death to be as dramatic as you want it to be, but we know nothing of her as a character at all, we don't even know what her personality was like. At least Apollo explains to us who Clay was and how much Clay marked him as a friend. *"there is nothing that makes me care for Clay before, during, or after his death which would then make me understand more of why Apollo is becoming so belligerent because we are only TOLD how Apollo feels about clay and not experiencing it."* Again, this is exactly what I feel about Misty Fey. Maya only mentions her once in case 1-2, Misty becomes the indirect reasoning for case 2-2 and then she isn't even mentioned till case 3-5!. We know nothing of her when she returns and yet you are telling me that I must feel sorry that she died? Please. *"The events themselves are just half baked, and just feels more like retcons because "oh it is a grey area so we can write whatever we want in it.""* I am still unable to see the problem here. This just makes Apollo a more developed and complex character. Besides, let me remind you that Apollo Justice didn't setup anything at all when it came to his past, it was always left open for future development, how is it bad for a writer to take advantage of this and make Apollo a complex character?.
"Again, the same happens in 90% of fiction when a franchise grows and gets sequels." That isn't justifications of leaps in logic without trying to link them together more seamlessly. "Dude, not only this ignores how, as I keep saying, this is just how a franchise normally grows, but you are also ignoring how Apollo himself grows in his skills as a lawyer and how he becomes more and more confident over his abilities at being a lawyer." Apollo's growth comes off as more rigid than a natural flow. This is mostly in due to the split attention between multiple protags, but Apollo simply doesn't have as much moments of slowly becomng better and overcoming conflict that someone like Phoenix or Naruhodo have, but Apollo's development from being a still struggling lawyer at the end of AJ to being rather competent in the start of DD is just jagged, and just doesn';t have the same impact or set up as Phoenix beating a perfect prosecutor like Edgeworth, him and Edgeworth bonding together to take down Dee, and Phoenix overcoming Edgeworth to defeat his mentor. Plus all of the development from Farewell and etc. and you can feel the slow growth as so many events tests his vigor and compitence as a lawyer. It is something subject to opinion maybe, but in my honest to god opinion, Apollo just doesn't show that development well with him being interuppted many times in his development. "Yet nothing of the sort was even hinted at in the prior movies he was part of (a problem you seem to have with Apollo's backstory). Prior to GotG Vol.3 I couldn't even guess that is what his backstory was about because there weren't any hints to that being the case." I don't think you even watched the Guardians movies now. Gunn said he intentionally made Rocket the true protagonist of those movies, and he shows repeatedly all of the scars of his abuse for his creator, constantly brutes and shoves away his new Guardians family from trying to uncover his past due to his trauma, and the first movie literally directly names Lillia, Floors, and Teefs and key people he considers family. The movie directly shows how his past molded him into the stuborn and aggressive character he is and why he is able to slowly warm back up when the guardians and especially his interaction with Yondu in GOTG2 made him realize those flaws and want to be better. That is beautiful writing so undermining that aspect that they "don't bring up the past" just missed the entire movies. "What I said was that Clay existing wasn't pertinent to any other cases that are not the final 2 of DD. It is not pertinent at in Apollo's debut game and adding him in would just be fluff for said game." & "At least Apollo explains to us who Clay was and how much Clay marked him as a friend." Once again, the exact problem. Tell not show. Telling how Apollo feels instead of showing them being friends is just lazy writing. There is little to no impact just from Apollo saying "YEAH I HAVE A BEST FRIEND HES GREAT" with no context out of no where is not character writing or character interaction. Especially since we don't even get his name till after he is dead. "Again, this is exactly what I feel about Misty Fey. Maya only mentions her once in case 1-2, Misty becomes the indirect reasoning for case 2-2 and then she isn't even mentioned till case 3-5!. We know nothing of her when she returns and yet you are telling me that I must feel sorry that she died? Please." I'm going to be frank and I don't say this lightly: I genuinely don't think you have played the Ace Attorney trilogy at all after this. Misty was directly name dropped and shown a picture of in 1-4 where they explained that she left Mia and Maya after being embarrassed as a spirit medium during the DL-6 incident. And through Maya we clearly see how much she is impacted by being the only one in her family basically, and with the introduction of Pearl, further exemplifying that she has to try and stay strong and be a motherly figure to Pearl because of the absence of Misty and the death of Mia. And in 2-2, Maya is then put further at target by morgan because she is trying to take the Master of the Kurain Channeling Technique as he own through Pearl since Misty's disappearance and eventual "legal" and true death fifteen years later. Misty is mentioned so much and is an ever present figure even. And even without being directly mentioned, she clearly has a impact on the stories of Mia and Maya, especially Maya trying to live up to the greatness of Misty and Mia, constantly failing, and viewing herself as useless and a failure because of it. And it makes it all the more tragic with the reveal of Misty's being the victim as it means Maya and her mother will never ever formally meet ever. I'm not going to lie, I feel that is way more compelling compared to a best friend a step brother and step dad you never mentioned besides offhandedly here and there. Apollo's backstories are just so disconnected while someone like Misty even with her being absent is directly felt through Maya. "Apollo Justice didn't setup anything at all when it came to his past, it was always left open for future development, how is it bad for a writer to take advantage of this and make Apollo a complex character?" One, you don't need to use backstory to make a compelling and complex character. Look at Ryunosuke Naruhodo from TGAA. And two, even though backstories can help, there actually was a backstory and plotline given for Apollo with Lamiroir and Apollo's dad. Feeding more useless stuff into that with disconnection just interrupts the already implied backstory. "oh but dahlia wasn't implied in the first two games" yet it doesn't directly interfere with the established backstory nor does it embellish it into unrealistic and out of no where backstories.
Damn, imagine a Case 1 with Athena being so confident on her victory and having help from Phoenix at her side, and then in Case 2 Phoenix left to help Edgeworth, and Athena alone needs to confront the other presecutor, that is fresh late graduate because needed to take the final exam 5 times or something, a contrast to Athena prodigy, but also a show of the character determination, and that has the support of Klavier or Simon at their side. Basicly a role reversal of the series archetypes. Ooof, the potential...
The "spoiler rule" is the most nonsensical thing ever. Like, it runs directly _contrary to how a series works:_ You can't go into a sequel expecting to not get spoiled on previous installments. Thus, trying to accommodate otherwise in a setting where continuity matters a lot inevitably results in sloppy writing, character stagnation, wasted potential, unresolved arcs/plotlines, etc.
Before the AJ Trilogy announcement came out, I would've said the best course of action would be to make another choral game, with a prosecutor bound to Phoenix (as opposed to Athena's Simon and Apollo's Nahyuta), that would create a trilogy of sorts with DD and SoJ. That way loose ends could be wrapped up, and it would make up the thematic incoherence from AJ to DD. Alas, Fate was not on our side lmao
So I want to propose something for "Keep Cameos to a minimum". Keep all cameos in the DLC case. Just make the DLC case the fanservice case while keep the rest of the game with only post reboot and new characters. (post reboot includes returning characters like Phoenix, Ema, Maya, Pearl and Edgeworth) Just stuff the DLC case full of original trilogy characters. Maybe even entirely original trilogy characters. Including the culprit and victim. That way they are out of the way and you will also see what all the old characters we know and love became in the last 9 years.
I just want gumshoe back tbh
man... can you imagine a gumshoe spinoff??? one of the cases being the disappearance of gumshoe's salary.
And I want Lan Hikari and MegaMan.exe making a crossover with AA
Same, honestly.
YESSS !!! i miss him so much
I would love to see him again, imagine they bring him back as the chief police officer, with some of his hair white or something, i would cry if I say my boy again, or him being retired with Maggie
In my opinion, the arc Athena REALLY needs is one of independence. She’s never truly managed to clinch a case all on her own; whenever she’s in the lead she always breaks down eventually and needs someone to save her, be it Phoenix, Simon, or her friends. And Apollo’s consistently been there with her, usually taking the lead or playing a significant role as the assistant. It truly feels like she’s been set up for this journey of finding that confidence, and cracking the case with nothing but her own strength and ingenuity, just like Phoenix in 3-5 and Apollo in 6-5(if I recall correctly Phoenix didn’t actually do that much in the latter trial of 6-5). DD explored her backstory, briefly skirting by her fear of courtrooms, now I think it’s time to focus on the AFTERMATH of her backstory, and have her confront that fear head-on!
Oh absolutely. Especially with Yamazaki's writing style trying to make her Phoenix when Athena is her own separate entity with a whole unique skillset. I don't need Athena to keep on quoting Phoenix's motto of "forcing a smile at all times" when she literally can't lie about her emotions. Like I know showing too much emotion isn't "professional," but this is a universe that has the prosecution trying to kill the defense so I think a little emotion is allowed.
Anyways tangent aside, Athena just needs so much more focus on her than she has currently.
You could also have a new Prosecutor who is Obsessed with Ruining the Wright Agency.
But Athena is alone, which gives the Prosecutor hope & copium to continue for 4 cases.
The first case could use Payne.
Or Maybe even Edgeworth.
Ah yes, although the only problem is that's what phoenix's character arc as well
You know who could’ve worked as her rival? That friend of hers from Duel Destiny
@@spaghettiisyummy.3623 Why would Edgeworth, after all this time, become obsessed with ruining the Wright Agency?
I just want Sebastian as an actual prosecutor you have to face in a trial. I miss him.
in before Capcom renames Sebastian to "Purt Felt" or some dumb shit
@@CoolCarGuy oh my god I never even considered that
@@Thenia707 yup so maybe it’s alright if AAI2 doesn’t get ported 😔
Spoiler rule is sending their greetings.
Apollo vs. Sebastian is something I would kill to see
I've had this thought for a long time now and I don't know what other place to put it:
If Ace Attorney ever actually has a final game in the series, I really want to see a wholesome moment with the Judge where he announces his retirement and lets everyone who he's seen change the justice system know how important they really are (and also maybe reveal his real name?)
wdym his name is Judge
@@pixelatedheartx Mr Judge, like Chris Judge
Udgey
@@mertensiam3384That's a nickname.
@@Alter-Ego-ci5qo and judge is a title yet people here are joking about that
I'm wondering if they'll try to raise the stakes for the final case again. At this rate the final case will probably have you preventing nuclear war. I'd rather just have something personal, like the all the original trilogy final cases.
Phoenix Wright X Oppenheimer
Something like AAI2 works too, high enough stakes, but not galaxy level stuff.
@@crescentmoon5686 Yep, it's more about how much you care about the stakes. High stakes ≠ high tension.
tbh apollo's final case in his trilogy was pretty personal
i mean, the killer was responsible for both his biological and foster father's deaths
i really don't know why people just love to complain about the apollo games tbh
If we get an Athena trilogy, I think it’d be super cool to have a space themed final trial. Unlike the cosmic turnabout, I want it to ACTUALLY take place in space, cause 1. Raising the epicness and scale of it all, 2. It really fits with Athena considering her backstory and all
Wonder if it'd be possible to make Franziska a prosecutor this time around. I'm not saying she has to be a main one but we haven't seen her since AAI2 so I'm pretty sure her inclusion is long overdo. I'd like to see her go against Athena.
Edit: Came late and gonna rewatch the premiere.
It would be nice to have women on both sides of the courtroom for a change
I really want to see Athena vs Franziska, especially because I feel like the female characters keep getting done dirty by these games.
Since Athena studied law in Europe, I think it would be cute if she learned about Franziska in her studies and kind of fangirls over her lol. I don't mean that in a shippy way, I just think it would fun she be starstruck by Franziska while also having to go against her in court.
I also want her to face Phoenix again, because she never fulfill that goal after original trilogy
Funny thing is, in the video they mention Athena only has 2,5 cases under her belt (onscreen).
But doesn't this also apply to Franziska? She was the prosecutor in 2-2 and 2-3. Afterwards she was shot and Edgeworth took over for 2-4.
She did do the first trial day for 3-5 against Edgeworth (mostly to buy some time), until she was replaced by Godot for the remainder of the case.
Athena vs Franziska would be nice. Also it would be the battle of the prodigies.
@@funchildrenchannel3913I think that those are just instances of court-related cases. In terms of murder cases she's been involved in overall, I think I'd have to add in AAI and AAI2 as she worked with Edgeworth there on those cases (even if it was short-lived). But I do agree that she has been dirty in terms of actual court cases.
I’ve seen artwork by Soaptaculart on her pitch for an Ace Attorney 7 starring Athena called “Karmic Conviction” which of course revolves around Franziska, along with her niece Constanze as the Athena’s rival, and also her nephew Klaus as her assistant. I highly recommend checking it out! It’s my favorite AA7 pitch overall! 😁
I will defiantly check it out! And right after uploading I forgot that I would love to see Franziska vs Athena which I implied but never piece together in my mind somehow lol
Oh I LOVE Karmic Conviction, I'd love to play/make it a fangame
In my opinion, a case focusing on the blackquill's would be cool, not only does it develop simon and aura more but it may also expand on Athena's and simon relationship.
Blackquil really kind of was just there huh. He really needs more development besides “haha convict is prosecuting”
@@CoolCarGuy yea! I feel like he's not developed enough in dual destinies, but it's better compared to nahyuta
@@lovemoonforever6068to be fair, almost every single persecutor in this series is better than Nahyuta. That’s really not that big of a bar to clear
@@KeDe1606 Yea, that's true. I hope Ace Attorney 7 will not have a new prosecutor if they gonna screw the character up like Nahyuta. ( I think clay and Nahyuta should have been mentioned earlier than later, that could have even more development into their characters)
@@lovemoonforever6068 I feel like they should’ve stuck to there being only 1 main lawyer and prosecutor per trilogy/storyline.
Imo, the only reason the „1 prosecutor per game“ approach worked in the beginning, was because of how small the main cast of characters was back then. So they could still be integrated into the story without much hassle. But that isn’t the case anymore.
The idea of there always being a new prosecutor that exemplifies the main themes of the games was neat, but the games are just way too short for any of these characters or storylines to really stick. It feels like the games always end _just_ before the new prosecutor really gets going
One issue I have with Kristoph being the main villain is honestly his current status. With the black psyche locks explaination in Dual Destinies, I always thought the implication was Kristoph was mentally destroyed, given Apollo/Phoenix should have "forcefully" broke his psyche locks by their actions.
If they follow through with the mentally destroyed route, I could honestly see Kristoph becoming Ace Attorney's first active serial killer, given all previous serial killers were active before the start of the game.
idk im just wondering if he would even still be alive, you know having been convicted of 3 murders. like he's someone that should be dead via death penalty.
@@SJrad I was thinking a storyline where Kristoph manages to breaks out of prison, and maybe Phoenix is taken out of the story as Edgeworth puts him into witness protection and fakes his death.
Phoenix's apparent death would be enough reason for Apollo to come back to the States as well, giving a chance to do a full wrap up of Apollo's story.
I was thinking something along those lines of an active serial killer targetting attorneys and prosecutors. Making it Kristoph could actually be the best twist ever even have him (fake out) kill Phoenix at the the end of the game. That way, we can functionally remove him from the story and give the more underdeveloped characters more room to grow.
I'm still hoping for a 'Marvin Grossberg Ace Attorney: Mysteries of the boatshop' 🤞
IT WAS ME OHOENIX I WAS TGE ONE AT THE BOAT SHOP
Marvin Grossberg Ace Attorney 2 - The Scent of Fresh Lemons
@xxProjectJxx Marvin Grossberg Ace Attorney 3 - Just Hemmaroids
Marvin Grossberg Ace Attorney 4 - The Harlem Shakedown
@@Fandomizer11037Marvin Grossberg: Ace Attorney: A blast to the past
What I want to see is the return of Franziska as the prosecutor for AA7 if it was to be about Athena. Franziska is pretty much the antithesis to Athena with being courtroom prodigies, where Athena seeks the truth with her ability to understand emotions and her kindness for others, Franziska is cold and ruthless, throwing emotions aside to pursue her conviction rather than the truth using facts and logic.
Franziska can get Athena to question whether or not her approach of looking at emotions is truly in the best interest to her client in a way that is blunt spite rather than Blackquill's way that is subtly trying to manipulate her. Maybe she can even get Athena to doubt herself by saying that Phoenix would would of put up a better fight and should be more like him, before Athena learns for herself that she should stop trying to be like him and seek the truth in the way that only she can do. Maybe by stepping in to save Phoenix from loosing a case and taking over it like what he does in the first case of DD.
Good idea but one problem
Fransizka already went through her arc
Edgeworth and Phoenix already showed her that a perfect record is meaningless and she should prosecute for the sake of the truth
I'd want to see a more grown up fransizka who is trying but struggling to follow that life path
@@thechargedfoxie456yt2 Franziska has learned to move on from her perfect record and revenge for her father, but she still believes in 'the perfect case', but now to find the truth instead of personal pride.
Her methodology is still to be as strict and ruthless as before (partly out of principle, partly out of her personality), because perfection is still fundamental to her view of how to prosecute someone. I think this could play well off of Athena because that cold and ruthless approach neglects emotions and allows it to be a blindside for Athena to find openings to her case.
You're so real for this, the Athena nation keeps winning
ngl athena nation hasn't really been winning so im happy to help with the cause
@@CoolCarGuy "winning" as in: getting anything whatsoever (i am coping very hard)
Honestly
I'm on trucy nation
Trucy is extremely underdone
She hasnt had a full character arc of her own and has really just been a joke character to bounce off apollo and athena recently
The most development for her that we got was magical turnabout and it was amazing
Seeing her question herself, unsure of if she actually did it or not
Despite her belief of magic she falters and thinks she really could have killed someone
Honestly I'd rather Apollo have not been there
It should've been an Athena case
Apollo and Athena have a good character relationship sure but Apollo believes in trucy
Athena is still new to law
And hearing someone be unsure of themself, if Athena heard those emotions I feel like she'd be unsure too
And seeing how trucy reacts to having no one believes in her, not even herself, would let us see so much more of how trucy works
I actually tbh would be pretty excited for a new prosecutor for Athena to go against, and even a new sidekick tbh. I think it’s kinda crazy that Franziska is the only female prosecutor the game has seen, making it currently a 5-1 ratio across the 6 games. A girl vs girl match-up would be a first for the series and could be fun to include especially when Athena takes the reigns of the Defense table.
In fact, if we’re going into a new age of games, given that the Apollo Trilogy being the end of that particular arc, just having a brand new set of new characters all along I feel like would be the freshest for the series.
I like the idea of putting Athena up against a rookie prosecutor - and I think it would be very interesting if the tutorial case had you play as the prosecutor.
I think 2 Apollo cases, 2 Athena case and 1 Phoenix case would be a great way to go.
I just hope this game isn't a spiritual successor to DD. That's the first time I've had a major reduction in enjoyment. Blackquill is amazing, Athena would've been great as a minor character, but overall it was a giant unfun mess to me.
Make Trucy great again. Bring Klavier back for a proper appearance. I miss Gumshoe. And as seems to be a necessity let's have a repeat of Edgeworth in the final case.
And for the love of God let Trucy and Apollo know they're siblings
I think DD and SOJ are very messy, but going back to trying to continue the AJ plotline after all of that will have the exact same problems that DD soft rebooting AJ had.
A lot of people are still fond of DD and SOJ. So just abandoning their love in a linear series just wouldn’t work, especially how much Apollo has changed and just needs a break from the spotlight.
I think there are new ways to bring focus to other characters like Trucy and Edgeworth and I want Gumshoe to return, but trying to revive the AJ plotline over an Athena focused story and getting that over with would just make it more difficult and amplify the existing problems.
And I’m not against Apollo’s return, but I want him more as a mature assistant/friend to Athena imo
how about 3 athena cases, 1 apollo case(in Khura'in before he returns home), 1 phoenix case, and then the final case which involves all 3
18:22 If this "timid rookie prosecutor" isn't Sebastian Debeste, I will riot. It sounds like A) a perfect way to lead off Sebastian's growth in AAI2, with Edgeworth having taken him under his wing, and B) Similarly to Athena having to find her own way without Phoenix's guidance, Sebastian would have to find his own way without Edgeworth. And given the two of them are more outwardly emotional and irrational in their approaches, I feel like Athena and Sebastian could bounce off each other really well (besides, the "smug overconfident rival prosecutor" angle has been done to death several times over)
I really think that Phoenix should become a politician and rewrite the laws so defence attorneys and prosecuters are finaly equals as well eliminate 3 day trial restriction in order to allow the truth to become more easaly uptain able in cases that are being investigated tried. The player's ultimate goal would be to make sure Phoenix sucseeds in his goal. We can even have the player topple a conspiracy, which involves the final boss wanting to inact their own justice system on a (inter)national scale.
As for gameplay I would 1st have it be possible for the player to switch from mood matrix to requlair cross-examenination and back, like with the Blackquil cross-exam in Dual Destinies. I would also have it so testemonies are put into the court record. 1 tab for evidence, 1 for profiles and 1 for testemony. I would also bring back multiple witnesses and have the player not only able to persue other witnesses, but also the prosecution, the judge and even your aid. I would also have the prosecution and the judge give testimonies like in the investigation games where they argue why they believe that the defendent is guilty. Also, I know that this ability actually belongs to Edgeworth, but how cool would it be if Logic was used to progress and/or end cross-exams? Finaly, if you've played Hotel Dusk: Room 215 or it's sequel Last Window: Secret of Cape West than you know that when come to conversations often the characters you speak with talk in orange text instead of white and when that happens a yellow triangle appears that when pressed results in your character yelling hold it before than being presented with 2 questions that you can ask the character. So why not incorperate something like that into AA?
I love the logic idea, even if it is just a hint method or just something they include to recontextualize the mystery in some way.
Something that ironically fucking Genshin impact did with their ace attorney inspired case they did
@@CoolCarGuy BTW what is your opinions on 3 day trial cases? Mine is that they should only be used in the finale of games. Nina Aquila: Legel Eagle is an Ace Attorney clone (don't know how else to discripe it) made on RPG maker and aside from it's tutorial case all other cases currently available are 6 days long (day 1 investigation day 2 trial day 3 investigation day 4 trial day 5 investigation day 6 trial). However the latter 2 investigation days aren't really spent investigating the crime and more just playing an advanced form of rock paper sissors with nameless npcs in order to eventually gain the oppertunitiy to briefly talk with the suspects of the case. Yes you do learn some new info, but if you eliminate the RPS minigame then you could easaly condence the cases from 6 to 4 days.
Anyway, back to Ace Attorney, how I would structure the cases is to have the tutorial have a trial former and a trial latter with the 1st half teaching the basics and the 2nd half testing you by taking down the culprit. However, I would prefere the culprit's identity is not revealed up front and that they aren't complete morons. Turnabout Target is my favorite tutorial case, because it does a really good job at hiding the culprit without it feeling cheap and once the game reveals who it is the culprit only says like 1 stupid thing, but ultimately you take down the culprit, not because the culprit is an idiot, but because ultimately got caught due stuff that was outside of the culprit's controle. Also I think having Klavier or Blackquil be the tutorial would be a nice change of pase as I'm kinda getting sick of the tutorial rival becoming completely trivial after the case is closed.
As for the normal cases I would have them be 2 day cases. The 1st investigation is there to introduce you the defendent, the victim and all of the suspects as well as get a glims of what prosecuter's against your client is going to be by speaking with detective. The culprit is absolutly NOT going to be introduced in the 2nd half as I believe that the player should already be able to figure out who the culprit is IF they are really smart and perceptive. The trial would 1st start of with the prosecution having the detective give testimonies in regards to how and/or why the defendent did the deed and after that some eye witnisess show up to give their accounts. The player would either need to 1, come up with an alternative theory in regards to how a 3rd party could have commited the crime or 2, point enough holes in the prosecution's case that an extention is warrented. The 2nd investigation would deeper into the backstory behind some of the charaters involved without it resulting in them being able to figure out who the culprit is by the end of the investigation. The 2nd trial would be split a trial former and and trial latter. The 1st half would have the prosecution either trying to debunk your theory or bring up new stuff in order to make the defendent look bad. They do this by either calling in new witnesses or reusing old 1s. The player starts point out wholes, however this time the judge isn't convinced and so at the end the player needs to use all of the knowlege uptained so far to figure out who the real culprit is and then calling them to the stand. The 2nd half is a boss fight against the culprit where both motive and method are discussed before then using revisualisation to use everything you've learned from the case in order to figure out what piece of evidence is nessery to put the nail in the culprit's coffin.
The finaly is a bit tricky, however here is my rough sketch. 1, no case exclusive characters. Having them be in the finaly will result in the player marking them as not being the culprit. 2, have the final boss be introduced in the 1st or 2nd case and give them enough screen pressence for the reveal to not feel cheap. 3, have the prosecution's case be so strong against the defendent that player starts to doubt their innocence. 4, have there atleast 1 red hering that can actually trick the player. And finaly, have the final case connect back to every other case so we don't have any filler, as well as make the mystery more complex.
I love the idea of bringing reebuttals from Ace Attorny Investigations for proseecutors and judges. imagine if it is also used in investigation sections, maybe with the detectives
You are so right about the potential of Athena and Kristoph being foils to each other and I'm so happy to see that I'm the only one who thinks that. And I feel like that could still work, even if Capcom is really bent on a "no spoilers" rule, because Athena is the only character in the main cast who doesn't know anything about Kristoph. So, if she's the main character, she'd be learning about him along with any newcomers to the franchise.
...Which, come to think of it, could lead to a pretty terrifying case if Kristoph somehow manipulated Athena into defending him while Phoenix and Trucy were busy helping Edgeworth. Like, appealing to her past determination to save the falsely convicted Simon and implying that some of the evidence (the bloody ace) was forged. New players wouldn't think anything of it at first, while old players would be losing their minds knowing that Athena is walking into another Matt Engarde situation. And then Klavier catches wind of it at the Prosecutors' Office or something like that. Or Apollo returns from Khura'in at that exact moment.
But yeah, all of your ideas are fantastic and now I REALLY want to play an Ace Attorney game with the Mood Matrix in the way that you described. It's such a great way to reinvent gameplay so that it feels new, but still "Ace Attorney." Love the idea of less confident rookie prosecutor as well. That would be such a great change of pace. I honestly don't know how likely any of your ideas are, because I get the impression that Capcom would rather milk in nostalgia with the OT. But I hope I'm wrong, because what you're suggesting sounds exactly like the kind of AA game that I'd want to play.
Oh man I want that now
@@legobeylov7470 SAME it would be a clever way to get around the spoiler rule!
15:42 Phoenix walking quickly in reverse and sitting the fuck down made me laugh harder than it probably should’ve. I totally love all these ideas about an Athena-focused game, I’d be so happy to play a game like this!!
I was wondering if it'd be a thematically-fitting choice to have Sebastian Debeste as Athena's main rival in court. Athena's a very emotionally-transparent character, and a prosecutor who's similarly open, if a bit toned down, would work fairly well, especially if he's intended to be the type who actively works with the defense like Klavier. Maybe Kay could also return as a detective or private investigator, who'd also mesh really well with Athena.
Not only would the two of them be a couple of fun returning characters for those who've played the Investigations games, but they'd also feel especially new to those who haven't. We'd be able to see just how much the Investigations kids have grown into their own since before Phoenix's disbarment, between Sebastian growing and thriving under Edgeworth's leadership as the Chief Prosecutor and cleaning house and Kay developing beyond the Great Thief Yatagarasu into a skilled detective making both Gumshoe and her Uncle Badd proud. Kay could even lend her own technological aid to investigations through use of Little Thief.
Though if there's ever another Investigations game, I'd be fascinated by seeing it from either Simon or Nahyuta's perspective. Either one of the two could sort of inherit Edgeworth's Logic Chess mechanic, through Simon's more methodical use of psychology or Nahyuta offering a much more empathetic and even personal approach as a monk, if not being given a much more familiar mechanic in the form of a Magatama like Phoenix's (possibly given to him by his mother). Both of them could use a lot more development beyond Simon's reputation as an ex-con with a "sword" and a Cooper's hawk and Nahyuta's ultimately-feigned-but-infamous prejudice towards defense attorneys. I could definitely jive with either one learning to be a bit more mellowed out and/or getting used to life outside the emotional hellscapes they had to live in for years on end. Adding in the fact that they both behave as older siblings to other main characters in the series could also help their development. Making sibling relationships a theme might also open a door for the Gavin brothers, with Klavier openly acknowledging the atrocities Kristoph could've committed beyond Phoenix's disbarment, and also Apollo and Trucy figuring out their own relationship should they find out they're half-siblings as well.
Ace Attorney 7 needs to fix up most of the biggest problems that Apollo Justice, Duel Destinues, and Spirit of Justice had.
1. Bring back old characters but make them have development and not flanderize them.
2, Have the Jury system actually be apart of the Court.
3. If Athena is going to be brought back show how much she has grown and learned.
4. Do not make Phoneix Wright the main character of the game, instead have him be just a side character
5. Don't reveal the outcome of the killer when the case starts
6. Have more variety of cases instead of always being murder
7. Cut down on the Filler
8. Don't make the Villain obvious from the start
9. Apollo Justice needs to be involved more instead of just being there and not doing much.
10. The Prosecutors don't always have to be evil but they can have ones that are fair and just trying to find the truth
Regarding phoenix as a main character, my view is as follows
They tried making him a side character in apollo justice and he came back as a main character in each new game after with spirit arguably being the most focused on him even with them giving apollo another back story.
Even the great ace attorney is connected to him tangentially via the main character being his ancestor
I personally i just dont see them making a game after apollo where he isnt a main character no matter how much of the fanbase asks for it.
@@TheWheelman298 He could still be A main character, but he doesn't have to be THE main character. Just make him Athena's support in court, nothing more and nothing less.
To expand upon the "rookie prosecutor" idea, I think it'd be great to not only have them introduced in the first case (no more Payne, at least for now), but to have Athena be forced to lose said case, with the truth cloudy and uncertain on whether the defendant was guilty or not, and the rookie prosecutor making a name for themself to mirror Athena's beginnings. This ties into the "special case" that Phoenix is working on, as it turns out that very trial is what they were looking into, with the final episode being a retrial. By then, Athena is looking at the case with a whole new lens and applies what she's learned throughout the game here. And the prosecutor, now more knowledgeable and confident, is putting on a Gavin-like role of focusing on the truth, even if it means losing.
Also, have Maya assist Athena and Trucy assist Phoenix, and have Gumshoe make a return as a private investigator, bumping into Athena during a case, then returning in the final case showing he was working with Phoenix and Edgeworth in the background. Also, when Athena is at a big low point, have Mia and Godot come back in different cases to give their take on "the worst of times are when lawyers force their biggest smiles" as they both have used that phrase and can expand upon it so Athena can find her own meaning behind those words. A great way to bring everything full-circle and close off the series.
Athena needs a trilogy and this is an amazing idea I would love to see it actually happen
I have a few thoughts:
I think a cool idea for a new game would be to introduce a corrupt judge, who makes the wrong verdicts for personal gain, with one of the plots of the game being to figure him out and bring him down. Also, Athena hasn't been able to do a case on her own, despite being a prodigy, so I think a game can show Phoenix bailing her out throughout the game, and show her cope with her failures despite her brilliance, but in the end have Phoenix force her to do a trial on her own, forcing her to grow like he had to when Mia died and left him alone.
Finally, it is an Apollo Justice trilogy. I thought that before Capcom announced it. The first game showed that Apollo was a competent lawyer. The second game showed his weaknesses, with Phoenix coming in to cover for him. The third game shows Apollo overcoming his weaknesses which were shown in the second game, completing his story becoming a lawyer that can press on no matter how hard it can be for him personally.
An idea I've had that I'm fond of for a future game is one where you can choose which attorney you play as foe each case. This would also play into their unique gameplay gimmicks, with Phoenix being able to use the magatama to get extra information in investigations and apollo and Athena being able to use the bracelet and mood matrix to "interrogate" better in trials. Having different playable characters with different paths through the cases would also give the games more replayability, and if we're looking at a game of 7+ cases, then you could give them each a tutorial case where they're mandatory to introduce them and their gameplay, a few cases where you can pick and choose your route, and then a final case where you have to present mastery of each character while being forced to play different ones in different sections. Maybe there's too much too look into, and they all split up to find info on different things at once? The idea just sounds like a lot of fun to me. But regardless, I definitely think AA7 should focus more on Athena. She deserves so much more than she got, and I'll never forgive 6-4 for taking away her moment in the spotlight for a blackquill cameo
Great video! The parts about the Mood Matrix working kind of like Logic Chess and Athena’s arc in a future game being about learning to deviate from Phoenix’s lessons and choosing her own path are really good ideas!
I want:
- The Great Ace Attorney Investigations focusing on Barok van Zieks or Kazuma Asogi (or both of them)
- AA7 to take place at a different law agency, they want to eliminate Phoenix, but don't at the same time, but keep tying the game directly to him in some form, it's just confusing.
@@realperson9951 Okay but only if they keep him dead. None of that "lol just kidding" crap they pulled in The Great Ace Attorney.
Also no "hey we're going to summon him with a spirit medium whenever we want so it's basically like he's still alive" either.
@@mjc0961 theyre not going to be able to keep him dead for long and have a case named after a pun like "rise from the ashes" but different
I know it's super specific, but a case set in a Mars simulation exercise would make for some fun puzzles. You'd have a few people in a shelter in the desert that have to wear spacesuits to go out, with a 20-minute delay to communicate with the outside world. But since it's not really Mars, someone could always break the rules, and someone could even come in from outside. Solving a murder case there would be a real challenge.
Heh, you're a fan of that series aren't ya ? I gotcha zero escape is goated
@@Kobaaming090 Never heard of it
@@givlupi2686 oh that's a little embarrassing then. It's a puzzle mystery games and the plan you thought off was eerily similar to some of the things that happen in it
Honestly all the previous prosecutors returning could make for some really interesting cases. Case 1 the prosecutor is Payne because the unwritten rule is that Payne always has to be the first Prosecutor you fight against. (Even Layton Vs Wright did this by having Phoenix battle Bri'ish Payne) Case 2 is Franziska. Case 3 is Klavier. Case 4 is Edgeworth. And finally Case 5 is Blackquill as I feel like Athena having to defeat him all on her own would be incredible and a perfect way to conclude her arc. You could even have Blackquill say something along the lines of 'if your mother was still alive she would have been so proud to see the person you have become.' Hell, if it is seven cases the rookie Prosecutor could be like a recurring antagonist who helps the Prosecutor of each case as an assisstant and gaining experience along the way as sort of a mirror to Athena in DD and SoJ until they eventually become the main Prosecutor of the case just before the final one. (Or if done correctly they could very well prove to be worthy of being the main Prosecutor of the final case and then Sebastian could return for Case 6) Tbh I just want an Athena game because I'm a biased Athena fan.
I heard a brief suggestion that SOJ sets up an Apollo Investigations game. I think that might be good to help conclude his own story, but we’d also need at least another game or two in the main series to finish off some of those plots.
I also love the idea that Phoenix and Edgeworth have some big thing to work on in the background. I really do want more interaction between them and Phoenix and Trucy moments. I don’t think she would be allowed to stay with Apollo in Khurain, and it could be that she acts as assistant to Athena. But- not sure about that, I just want Trucy to have some relevance.
18:10 call me crazy but lets say theoretically speaking that there existed a young prosecutor who is connected to Edgeworth that we haven't seen in years. Some might even call him The Best
The Mood Matrix would be a good mechanic to focus on and flesh out, but they'd need to do it really carefully. Some people are just terrible at reading emotions. Unlike something like Phoenix and Apollo's gimmicks where there is visible evidence, emotions are not always rooted in logic. They'd have to write scenarios carefully enough to make it a good puzzle while still making it comprehensible.
I'm gonna be real I'd love a funny reveal that there's another ruthless Von Karma procecutor we never knew about...
Manfred's wife
(Disclaimer: Phoenix is absolutely my favourite character in series.)
I personally hope, that Phoenix dies in the next game, but only after he does something amazing, like change the laws, successfully defend someone we know well or something and then we have to, defend him. Like we say, there was a scene, where someone died and Phoenix didsapeared and would be blamed. So we would have to defend him, without him actually being there and later, we would find out, he was dead. (Or maybe we would know about his death from the start).
That would absolutely destroy me.
And then after the case is closed, we would get some melancholic cover of Objection 2001, I would cry and then the series can end.
Oh god. I on one hand hope this happens and on the other, I hope it won't end like this. But I do want to hear cover of Objection 2001 for the another time in Ace Attorney, since it's been some time since we heard it last time and it's my favourite Objection theme.
Also I hope Athena gets more screen time.
I mentioned this before but I am very much against Phoenix dying. While there will be a short term impact of devestation, in the longterm it will just simply ruin the whole feel and theme of Ace Attorney as a whole. Ace Attorney gets dark yes, but never actively killing a major character besides maybe Misty and Dhurke, both of which have their own problems in their own right. And I feel his death with inevitably feel more hollow than anything, and just ruin that feel of optimism the series tries to project.
Ace Attorney stays light-hearted and goofy while knowing how to get dark while bordering the line of not making it to mature (besides DD because wtf was that). And I feel an extreme of killing Phoenix will no matter what ruin that light-hearted side of the game and break the line of making it too dark. Ace Attorney has shown they can pull at the heart strings in many other ways, so jumping the gun and killing off phoenix is just an extreme that will ruin the mood of everything
@@CoolCarGuy I totally understand that. As I said. He is my favourite character, but I do want some conclusion to his story in case this would be his last game. So I was just thinking, that if it actually was last mainline AA game, then why not either let Phoenix settle with Iris or something or maybe the other extreme, where he sacrifices himself for someone. (Also DD is my favourite AA game. Maybe partially, because of that one moment. So I quess that's why I don't mind some dark moments.)
Also. I really want to say this was really good video. Super edit and some really nice ideas.
Another thing I _wish_ Ace Attorney would do is to completely disconnect the tutorial from the story- make it an optional mini case (think something like the escapades-length) not connected to the story to introduce the gameplay for new players, while returning players can jump right into the story without having to sit through another tutorial. Which also would free up the slot for a more meaningful case.
It’s kind of fair, but also some of the best first cases from the very first turnabout to turnabout beginnings or turnabout trump work very well to not catch the player up to speed mechanically, but to set up the entire theme, feel, and story for the rest of the game.
So there are ways to mix it up, like even starting with a mini investigation or just keeping it simple. But overall I feel the tutorial cases more work most to set up everything narratively
Even if we got another Great Ace Attorney set in Japan which follows the formula and story of the last two, I'd be really happy. I love those charactes. My worry is that GAA is so good, the next one will have a tough time following it. To me it's so good, I have a hard time imagining a better AA game.
I am very much for having Susato be the protagonist. Or perhaps a change of pace of playing as the Prosecutor in court with Kazuma. It would be intersting spins continuing franchises that Takumi would def have a perspective in wanting to do
@@CoolCarGuy Maybe they could do both? Solving cases in Japan with Ryunosuke as a defense attorney, and Asogi in Britain as a prosecutor. And then it turns out the cases are connected and Ryunosuke comes back to London or somthing.
I'd really appreciate a closer look at the case that caused Phoenix to lose his bade. And I'd like Apollo and Trucy to find out they're half siblings. Maybe even look more into some of prosecutors backgrounds. We barely know anything about them and any connections to others. Maybe see how other characters are doing in their lives.
That case with Zak Gramarye? What more of that case does anyone need to know, exactly?
The fact that Athena can hear discord in the voices of people can be used for a case too. I would love to see a case where she takes a case but her client had a huge amount of discord in his voice. During the investigations and the first trial day it makes her doubt her client, and even wanting to drop his/her case at the end of the second investigations day. Then Phoenix learning her that sometimes you pick up a client who turns out to be guilty, but that you should still do the best job for your client. Then in trial day 2 it could turn out that the client thinks he's done something wrong to the actual culprit, but turning out to be a simple misunderstanding. The discord disappears and then finding out he was innovent after all
Ok three things
1. Pls Trucy and Apollo neeed to know theyre siblings
I think it would be cool to have a spinoff game with Trucy as the main character and she solves cases with Apollo, and at the end they finally, finally finally find out theyre siblings and it can be really cool and stuff
It would also be good because she went through some really tragic stuff in AJ1 and they kind of pretend that never happened??? If she were the main character of a game she could have this really epic arc where she finally grows a personality that isnt related to being a magician
Also cuz then they could focus a little more on her relationship with Phoenix whos supposed to be like a father figure to her (well yeah cuz he adopted her obviously) but whenever you see them interact in the games they just act like friends
It feels lazy, they should really do something about that
2. Kay needs her own Yatagarasu team
Kay wants a team of young, talented girls right? Umm just look at the main series??
She would make a really cool team with Ema and Athena
And they all have tragic backstories, they can be best friends!!!!!!!
(A spinoff game for a spinoff game?)
3. Debeste needs to come back and be a cool prosecutor or something
Everyone liked his character (I think)
He has room for a character arc
It would be cool to have a game playing as a prosecutor (who actually goes to court)
(A spinoff game for a spinoff game?? Again??)
(Although I guess I would also be just as happy if he was in the main series)
(Just bring him back pls)
TL;DR: I just want more spinoff games
I do like the idea of the prosecutor being an older one, perhaps even all the prosecutors making a cameo if it’s the final game. It would make a nice wrap up for the series as a sort of reminiscence on all the events in the series
About Athena going into a character arch is really cool.
But I did saw that in a fan project before and OMG is really dark.
The project is called elements of justice, is a sequel to an old fan case called turnabout storm. And yes, is a mlp fan case with ace attorney, but not let that distract you on how good this project is and how good Athena's internal conflict to try to be like phoenix Wright is portrayed here.
I know MLP is very infamous but you have to watch this, is really good.
And like I said, really dark, and tragic, a direction you would never see in a official ace attorney game
Can you tell me where i could watch all of what you talked about ?
@@Elevada_Forester is all in here I'm RUclips. I will give you a link to the original turnabout storm and then the project of elements of justice
ruclips.net/p/PL347AD9B9E509804A&si=Tr6by2RX4pyvFDmZ
This is the turnabout storm. Keep in mind that this was made serveal years ago and it may be not that good but this is the prequel to:
ruclips.net/p/PLIXxZC4rUfO4EYpjbJNp1c0X7OPpyyo6E&si=R7IueBXGiUwJt_E_
And this is elements of justice plus extra events that give more world building
@Elevada_Forester easy the channel literally named elements of justice. Then watch from case 1 all the way up to case 3 Episode 2 I'm so excited to see more EoJ it's so exciting
Unpopular opinion, but I’d like to see an Ace Attorney prequel, possibly a game focusing on Mia Fey, her lawyer journey after 3-1 and how she took Phoenix under her wing.
Many old characters can return too, including most of those in 1-5.
SL-9 crew. We have excellent characters from that game _not named Ema Skye_ that we've never seen since and may never see again.
@@a-s-greigYes! I want to know: where is Lana Skye and why Emma has seemed to have forgotten she even has sister since she is never even mentioned in the later games?!? Her absence seems utterly bizarre to me, given how emotional the end of Rise From the Ashes was.
Ace Attorney Origins: Mia Fey with Lana Skye as the prosecutor, and Angel Starr as the detective. Something like that?
I hope one day in the future, my dream Ace Attorney game gets made. That dream being playing as a detective, a decently experienced one at that, allowing you the player to become the first ever competent detective that solves stuff (minus Sholmes maybe, I haven't played DGS 2 yet). Then, your "sidekicks" are both a rookie defense attorney and prosecutor, both of which follow you around like Maya or Trucy. Culminating into a final case where the detective main character gets injured as part of the set up for the final case and you play as the rookie attorneys flailing their way through the final case.
I hope you finished DGS because it's when you play both that you fully appreciate the game ❤
So an idea I've always had for an Athena game would be that while she's visiting her relatives in Europe, the same ones who took care of her after her mother died, she gets caught up in a bunch of legal shenanigans, this would help separate this hypothetical Athena game from the others and providing a reason why Phoenix and Apollo aren't there
2:50 Maya never gets a break 😭
Great video.
Love Athena and would absolutely be behind an Athena centered game 🙌
Dude, it's eerie how close your idea of an Athena game is to mine. Back in 2017, I came up with a story for a fancase where Athena is all alone in Christmas taking care of the office while Phoenix and Trucy are on vacation elsewhere. She takes a softball case where one of her favorite players is accused of hitting the catcher to death with the bat. Blackquill is the prosecutor. Athena loses the case, making her question her worth as a lawyer, but then the killer is charged with another murder and Athena has to decide whether to defend her or not. If not, the first killer would get the death penalty for a crime she didn't commit, but it would be somewhat of a win for Athena because she's a murderer anyway and had it coming, but then the second killer would get off scot-free. By defending her, Athena catches the second killer and has the chance to overturn the first verdict, creating more tension between her and the first killer, like "you just proved me innocent of one crime, and now you want to prove me guilty of another, some lawyer you are".
Alas, the case spiraled out of control with how big and convoluted it got. I even tied it to the jury system from Apollo Justice, giving an explanation as to why it was scrapped. Apollo would even be playable in a flashback case! But I never made it true. Turns out designing three cases and three trials is super hard. Instead I made a small case with Edgeworth and Phoenix 5 months after Bridge to the Turnabout. It's called Turnabout In Plain Sight and it's in Ace Attorney Online, if anyone's interested.
But yeah, I would love it if Athena got her own game.
It was an awesome video and analysis! Your story attempt is really interesting, I would love to see it in action!
I know it doesn't seem likely, but I would Absolutely LOVE a DGS spinoff
I'm actually making my own Ace Attorney 7 (yay fan games) and I'm using a lot of your ideas for the Mood Matrix already, but you added some that are really solid. I might just take some of those suggestions. One thing I did do though: add new emotions. I added fear and shame to the Mood Matrix, and that freed up the blue emotion to be sadness and despair. What's more, we never see character's emotions change. They always feel the same way about events that occurred. But what if Athena could change their perception of what happened? What if she made them so comfortable, she got an inaccurate reading because they no longer feel that way? That's what I'm trying to play with here. Emotions are inherently unstable.
I liked what you said about Athena breaking down too. I've been struggling a lot with what to do for her overall arc, but that's a great idea and I might actually work it in. The idea I had before was more generic and similar to the Apollo arc I had planned. This is a solid idea. The main issue with that is Phoenix's advice about forcing a smile is advice he doesn't follow in the trilogy. He's always getting emotionally swept up in his cases, and this also occurs in Dual Destinies, making him outright hypocritical (but I hated Dual Destinies Phoenix so that's just me being mad about the character assassination). So I'm also playing with that, giving Phoenix a case that he has such an intense emotional attachment to that other characters start to become uncomfortable and he realizes he's getting too close but, at this point, is in too far.
I also like that you said something about not adding new prosecutors, as that's been obnoxious and unnecessary for a while now. I'm bringing back Franziska to conclude her arc and give the player more insight into who she is, not to mention letting her mature by 10 years and putting her against Athena and Apollo. That being said, your idea for the new prosecutor was great and I think that's really solid. I'm kind of doing that with a new judge. We've had that old bearded guy forever. Let's shake things up.
Also the 7-case format is brilliant and I'm glad you said it because I was actually contemplating doing a mini-case but wasn't sure if it was a good idea. Plus I'm finding that I prefer the Danganronpa format of one investigation, one trial. It made my first two cases a lot simpler. Anyway I'm totally rambling. Point is, I think your ideas are good for the main series continuation. It would make things more interesting for sure.
I almost thought you said 78 years had passed since Ace Attorney’s last installment.
This editing is genuinely incredible! The amount of time that is put into each moment must be immense-
EDIT: I just finished watching the video and your pitch is awesome! I'm completely sold! If Capcom does that then we'll live in a good timeline
-
Eh, I don't think the spoiler rule is actually a thing tbh. Major spoilers are generally off the table, but previous events have certainly been referenced in the past, like DL-6 or the events of Reunion, And Turnabout. It's just that AA4 was a pretty stark departure from the series and DD and SoJ are mostly self-contained games by nature.
On another note, it was very cool that you included kanji names for Takumi and Yamazaki! It was just a nice addition c:
Thx I just like to include their kanji names out of respect for them.
Also even if the spoiler rule may or may not be entire true or at least consistent, I think the consequences of CapCom’s unwillingness to continue a lot of key plot lines is apparent, hence why this theoretical spoiler rule is still actively claimed
@CoolCarGuy Fair enough, that does seem to be happening recently (though I wonder if it's a Yamazaki thing).
Btw I just finished watching the video (I edited my comment too) so great job on that!! Your pitch was really good
EXCUSE ME DO YOU REALISE THE STORY YOU SET FOR ATHENA IS BASICALLY JFA BUT WITH HER AS A COMBINATION OF PHOENIX AND FRANZISKA
i mean this in the best way possible. jfa has so many good themes and so much juice that wasnt really explored well (mainly between edgeworth and his deaths effect on phoenix and franziska respectively) and it was also a lot about legacy. there was this whole part where phoenix staunchly believes prosecutors are evil and "the point of being a defense attorney" was to be a force of good only for that to lead up to and implode in the last case (an amazing conclusion) cuz he did end up finding his "point" and athena should have an arc like that as well :D
I honestly didn’t realize but now that you mention it, that is exactly what I really want them to do.
I know Athena’s arc does reuse some elements from other characters, mainly Edgeworth’s backstory with some Maya moments, but Athena herself as a character is unique enough that she needs to find her own purpose like Phoenix did in JFA
Very good point you made thx
i absolutely love both ace attorney and ghost trick, a crossover would be incredible. takumi says himself that he would be interested in a crossover where phoenix dies.
how will they kill phoenix though :(. Prob something funky like him breaking his back
@@CoolCarGuyhit him with the thinker. We’ll see if he survives that
@@CoolCarGuy i really wonder how the cast of characters would come together if we considered the crossover happening after ghost trick ended. spoilers below
after the game ended and everything came back to how it was, missile and yomiel were back to normal, and they are both extremely important characters. characters like lynne, kamila, jowd and cabanela could easily be incorporated into an ace attorney game, but missile and yomiel were relevant to the plot mostly because of their powers. but maybe it would be cool to see yomiel after his redemption arc lol
@@CoolCarGuy Maybe the game will set in distant future, where Phoenix just dies of old age
@@CoolCarGuyKristoph Gavin revenche x)
If i was to make AA7 I would do like Shu Takumi did with the great ace attorney and tried to do with Apollo Justice and flush all the old cast and make up a new one. The big problem since AA4 is that Shu Takumi wanted to get rid of Phoenix because his arc was concluded and he wanted to start from scratch storywise but Capcom wanted their sweet brand recogintion. And the great ace attorney writing went back to Takumi who did what he wanted with Apollo and featured and entirely new cast and boy does it show in comparison to 5 and 6 which feel more like AA fanfic with original-do-not-steal characters most people don't care about and that the writers couldn't be bothered to flesh out properly like giving Apollo a new backstory in each game and then giving Athena a backstory which we never talk about after ever because in the end it mattered only for that one trial despite how fucked up and traumatic that backstory was. Those who have made the latest numerical games don't seem to get that the reason why they were popular isnt because there was a ton of gimmicks in the gameplay, it's that we followed Phoenix and Maya and witnessed their growth and bond as fleshed out characters. And like yeah...Athena's backstory is tragic but does it even matter past the trial where it was relevant? Nope. And then she just reverts back to quirky girl archetype and it's never adressed ever again which kinda tends to make me forget that Athena even had a tragic backstory. It's as if in the trilogy they completely stopped talking about Mia as if her death had no impact on the characters. But thats the problem from 4 to 6. The characters are inconsistent, the plot is inconstitent and it relies more on more on moon logic to solve the problems. Get rid of all the characters, get rid of all their stupid gimmicks and go back to basics. A well written new arc with new comers we will learn to know and love.
couldn't have said it better honestly
Twas honestly a banger of a video. Definitely agree with the shorter cases thing, main reason i want investigations 3 so that we can have more of this kind of thing
I really don't see Kristoph being alive for another game. He was convicted of two murders, attempted a third giving him serial killer status, forged evidence and, crucially, framed another attorney for it. There is just no way a world in which Dahlia Hawthorne got the rope for 1 murder and 2 attempteds (officially) that Kristoph Gavin didn't.
I think it should be similar to SOJ with its character balancing
SOJ balanced Phoenix and Apollo well but Apollo still felt like the star by the end
Do this but replace Apollo with Athena
I really like your idea! You are essentially taking the loose threads that Apollo Justice left for the possible sequel, and applying them to the characters of Dual Destinies (I really love the idea of Athena and Kristoph being sort of the whole opposites of each other), and also how you are analyzing in more depth the core values of the series. I always had doubts about wheater or not an Ace Attorney 7 would make me satisfied considering how much the Apollo Justice Trilogy just made the storyline a giant mess (not saying the games are bad, but they really have lots of issues when it comes to the plot-line), but I think this video really made me see that there is a possibility for it to work in a satisfactory way. I really hope Shu Takumi and his team are up to the task, but I gotta say you did a great job so Im sure they can manage. Great video!
Actually I wouldn’t want Kristoph. I want The Phantom. Imagine if one of the cases is defending someone falsely accused of being the sniper. Attempted murder instead of actual murder.
The man who killed Athena’s mother, the only person who almost hid his emotions from even her. Imagine him being a Hannibal Lector style character. Either revealing his real face or always keeping him in shadow in creative ways.
I totally agree with you! Especially with the mood matrix, we could get very interesting sections with him like we did in 5-5!
Also so many people think that he died, but the game said he didn’t. Oh well-
@@DRAGOquing Every second we spend with this man should have you like that muscular fish in Fry Cook Games “I’ve gotta get out of here!”
This has nothing to do with the idea, but I want Shelly De Killer to interact with him and both of them fight. I wanna see more Shelly.
Can i just say, I LOVE how your concept of the mood matrix works. Ive never been a fan of any of the new ginmicks introduced in the modern trilogy, apecifocally because they dont feel very alligned with the main mechanics of the series. But utilising Logic chess aswell as Jury Rebuttals and multiple witnesses is genuis! Jury rebuttals in GAA has always been more persuation than logic, since the juror are very emotionally fickle and quick to cast judgement, convincing them is a matter of using their reactions to you advantage, a perfect with a psychology expert like athena. Logic chess follows a similar design as it doesnt rely on presenting evidence but rather your own words and how they effect your target. These are great tools for an empathetic indivual like Athena and a great extension of her abilities. Well done!
fun fact, I think a jury system, like seen in TGA, was a scrapped feature in AA5. If you look in the concept art in the Apollo Justice Trilogy for AA5's backgrounds you can see a new courtroom setting that has either a jurist area or scales with weights.
I feel the one and only way we could get Phoenix to be mostly out of the picture, he would have to retire. He’s been doing this for so long, I feel as though it only makes sense. Especially if they do a lengthy timeskip
retiring at like 37 with no money is crazy though ngl but i get what you mean
@@CoolCarGuy or well, maybe not retire, but step down from being a lawyer, and just focus solely on management for the wright anything agency
i want to see athena losing case. i remember the time when phoenix got guilty verdict while in khurain. it was 1st time i felt thrilled by an ace attorney game. lawyers not always win a trial
i just want them to make wrightworth canon
Wait Franzika and Gumshow aren’t AA characters anymore? Why, why have they taken my children away from they’re gods
But hinestly Franziska being a the most prodigy prodigy to ever progicute she going up against Athena would be a great parallel
I’ve also always loved the idea of Klavier and Blackquill or Franziska as a dynamic, Klavier and Blackquil getting whipped would be amazing and Klavier personality plays off both their hyper serious personality’s so well and I just want the prosecutors to interact man
In terms of other kinds of cases, I think Great Ace Attorney stumbled on an interesting idea with attempted murder. Especially in GAA2-2. That set up allowed the victim to be a hostile witness you need to fight, which is a very fresh angle to cases.
I think the next game really needs to be Athena focused and it needs to focus on her dynamics with Phoenix and Blackquill. If they do a new prosecutor like usual then I think Blackquill should swoop in as the final case prosecutor, like how Edgeworth prosecuted 2-4.
If 'Ace Attorney 7' does become a reality, Franziska should become the game's main prosecutor, while Gumshoe becomes the game's detective.
honestly you gave so many great mechanic ideas that i woulc LOVE to see implemented in the future AA games ! Personnally I still kinda wish to see a game with Mia as the main character, but I know it's too soon...
3:54 - 4th option. Mia prequel. I will always be down for the idea of a Mia Fey: Ace Attorney where college aged Phoenix interns at her office and takes on the assistant role.
Athena and Gumshoe. The best duo that hasn’t happened yet
honestly if it were to be a "new" prosecutor. Id like it to be Sebastian Debest. Edgeworth would happy to entrust him to move forward with prosecution and can be as emotive with Athena. And his theme to conduct the mood and "flow" of the trial. Which could parallel of the use of emotions in the court.
Honestly i can see Athena and Sebastian a good duo for interactions. possiably how he can hold control of his emotions while walking forward simmilar to phinoxe's motto, but his own path to reach the truth.
I'm pretty sure AA7 will finally see the return of not only Franziska and Gumshoe but also many characters from the Investigations series.
I could totally see Kay having become a rookie defense attorney and Athena being her mentor while going head-to-head against Franziska in the courtroom. Gumshoe would be the detective and maybe we'd even see Justine Courtney as a judge in one case. Maybe we'll also see Apollo and Nayuta in a DLC case.
I think this would give pretty great character development for Athena while also having the opportunity to bring back a lot of past characters.
EDIT: I also do think we need a flashback case between Phoenix and Athena on how they met. In Dual Destinies, Athena mentioned that Phoenix helped her out of a tough situation but we never got any more details. That would be a great idea to put more of the spotlight on Athena.
Objection! That’s a nice Ace Attorney story…for an ATHENA TRILOGY! **Objection theme play**
I had an idea long ago that they should make an Ace Attorney game, but when you get to the defendant and take the case, you choose which lawyer will take the case.
Yeah, that would have been a lot of work on the devs, but that would also add replay value. It would also be the best way to show how different the lawyers are/can be.
Now that I've heard your idea, I kind of want two pretty similar cases, but one for each lawyer. Phoenix will breeze through the early parts of the trials due to experience, but he has to find an alternate way to deal with emotional witnesses; where Athena will struggle to make her arguments come through (perhaps requiring her to present three pieces of evidence to make the trial move forward, where Phoenix only needed one because thanks to his experience, he thought that far ahead already) but thanks to the Mood Matrix will get an easier time with emotional witnesses. It would have been amazing to see these differences. Maybe after the last case, Phoenix do understand that Athena should be doing Athena things, while Athena takes a level in lawyering and gets to understand that the smiling thing has its merits, even if she has a hard time with it. And from there, we can afford to see Phoenix being an equal to Athena rather than a mentor, to possibly end up being someone Athena doesn't feel like she has to rely upon.
If we get a new trilogy, I hope Capcom learns from the mistakes they made with Apollo's. Relying on the original Trilogy too much was a misstep, particularly when they didn't have anything new to do with the cast (Phoenix not having any personal arcs, Maya showing up just to be kidnapped/accused of murder again, Pearl just being there, etc.). Besides, there were a bunch of characters from 4 - 6 that had potential if they were revisited, which they never got to be. I imagine Vera Misham could have a fun interaction with a therapist attorney, for example.
the next ace attorney game now has to compete with the fontaine archon quest from genshin
I’ll ace attorney case review it and rip it apart
Not a fan of Athena but must admit that her finding out and defending a guilty client while trying to hide that from her boss would be very compelling.
It also adds a new layer to the trilogy of such cases. Your mentor fanfiction scene even seamlessly fits in as well. Would be nice for Franziska to return as Prosecutor where she both mentors and scolds Athena for her mistakes, especially as they both have been known as "prodigies" and the weight of that.
While I like your Mood Matrix Interrogation, I think killing Lamiroir is the way to go. Tragic family murders are a big thing in Ace Attorney and would be a compelling way of uniting Apollo and Trucy continuing the Gramarye Tale as well. It really forces them into the position of exploring the past narrative which they have really needed a push for.
I want widget to do something because all they show of them is just saying "He BlUrTs OuT wHaT iM tHiNkInG sOmTiMeS" and then he does it once abd never again
I'd love a Mia Fey : Ace Attorney game (Gyakuten Saiban 0) which develops things like her decision to become a lawyer, her relationships with Phoenix, Maya, Pearl, Lana, Grossberg and Godot, her investigations about Misty's disappearance and her journey to becoming a top attorney.
Another possibility would be a Klavier Gavin Investigations game that would finally slove the mystery around Kristoph and the black psyche locks
I just hope your ideas get implemented. This was a really good video.
This video was so good. That I'm watching it again.
Honestly that's been one of the best AA writting i've seen in a while, that whole Athena Arc really could be what she needs to develop, although i'd make some changes to it, mostly regarding the Prosecutor and Nick, In my mind i think Franziska should be her rival during this game, mostly because Fran would more or less be a twist in the mentoring thing, Fran's more interested in testing Athena and see if she even got it in her to be an attorney, maybe even pushing more pressure on her about being a protogy but in a less than intentional way, every trial she's not in it to win but mostly as to pressure Athena to evolve, maybe their first trial against each other she's holding back and Athena realizes it and in annoyance ends up bringing it to Fran after the trial, in which Fran starts slowly taking Athena more seriously, always back handedly praising Athena if not simply damming with faint praise, more things that push down on Athena and make her question if she even wants this, and then she ends up meeting another attorney, Kristoph who recently started acting as an attorney again, pretty much exactly what Black Quill was doing in Dual Destinies, i want Kristoph to be a even more twisted mentor to Athena, Kristoph knows of Athena's whole deal, and he wants to use her if possible, i wouldn't really say Kristoph would become a co-council for her, maybe in a single trial but more often than not he'd be at a arms lenght of her, doing his own thing and working on his own cases, and when Athena's breaking into tears at the Wright & Co Agency, Kristoph's the one who shows up not Nick since he'd be busy and out of the country, and then Kristoph uses this chance to approach her even more and then gains her full trust, just like he needed in order to then push her to taking on his up coming re-trial, since Nick and Apollo would be out of the country, this would be Kristoph's perfect chance to walk away free and for that he's gonna need a defence attorney, Athena Cykes the person he ended up gromming for just that
I think a really cool idea is to have someone with DID that Athena has to Cross Examine, Specifically with the Mood Matrix. And specifically someone who doesn’t know they have DID.
Especially because I have read that there are different types of personalities and that they either
A: can't remember something another Alter did
Or B: feel no emotion towards the memory that another Alter did.
So it would be cool for someone to testify, show emotion towards what they are saying and then the next day, act differently and have to give basically the same testimony as yesterday except, there are parts they forget and they show no emotion towards stuff that they should and you need to reveal that they have DID. And when you try to pick at why they have DID, black psyche locks form. I think that could be cool...i could also be completely wrong about how DID works. But if I am correct, I think a case with someone with DID would be cool.
so basically what you mean is uendo wasted potential
Gonna be ahead of the curve and lay down my own feelings on what I’d like from the next Ace Attorney game. While I’m not against an Athena focused game or trilogy, I’d personally prefer a whole new cast and maybe setting. I sorta struggle to imagine what they could even do to advance Athena’s character without tacking on disconnected backstories like what Capcom did to Apollo, and I don’t want Athena to be muddled like Apollo. Also… I want to move on from Phoenix. His story is done and while I believe Dual Destinies handled his character decently, Spirit of Justice annoyingly made him feel like a rookie again at times because there’s apparently a rule that Phoenix has to have a backbone made of wet paper, tape, and a lotta prayer so we can have our tired “Phoenix is shocked and overwhelmed and cowering at what the hell to do and we need him to overreact when the prosecutor basically assaults him” moments. A new cast, main character, and setting could help bring more freshness and possibilities for the IP. The Great Ace Attorney was a fantastic departure from the main series and I want more games like it with its own focus without any baggage from the original trilogy and its haphazard second “trilogy”. Just my two cents though, looking forward to seeing your ideas!
Edit after watching video: Excellent video and ideas (though personally I want nothing to do with Kristoph and his petty ass) and it made me rethink how Takumi could give Athena the spotlight she deserves. However on the gameplay side of things I really think Capcom should focus on making the investigations segments better. The trials are engaging enough as is with what they've established, but the investigations need more to make them less of a slog.
Me too
we'll see tomorrow ;)
I feel the same way! I’d be down for an Athena game, but I’m mostly just wanting a female-led game in general. There’s a lot of cool female characters in AA but none of them have had their name on the box, so to speak, and I think Athena is probably our best chance at this point lmao (I mean my dream next game is a Franziska investigations but I know that is not gonna happen lol). I think it could be cool if they aged Athena up a few years in the future and maybe gave her more depth that way? Or, like you said, a totally new cast would work well too. Excited to see this video!
In which time period would this reboot take place in would it have super natural things attached to?
@@EF-kk3vh you can actually make the villians a lot more physicly imposing without needing to give them crazy designs if the protagonist is female. It would also make them a lot harder to spot.
This is SUPER solid. Just wow, brilliant.
So you want a game with Kristoph as villain and Klaviar as prosecutor that solves Apollo's plot lines but with Athena that is just like AA4 when they made Apollo a plot device for phoenix's story AA7 would just make Athena a plot device a better story is to make one of her friends the prosecutor (the boy who turned out to be a girl) while the other is her assistant like juniper or the lawyer bot don't remember his name and the main conflict to be about where did the phantom come from like someone like that can't exist from thin air imagine if there is an organization that raise street kids to be emotionless
And for the first idea I think it should be for the final Apollo game for him to finish his own story for once that way both of them have there own stories with there own cast of characters and nick should be a member of the bar association
You know, the thing that bothered me is that, the further series go, the less of a rival prosecutors seem, OG trilogy had always written the opposing side with that in mind: With Miles there was a clash of ideals and trauma. Franziska wanted to spite Miles, because she felt left behind, and Godot simply hated Wright, but in reality could not move on from the tragedy that befelled him. Not to mention every single prosecutor grown after each game (we can't really tell with Godot due to him being the final prosecutor in trilogy, but his final words show that he indeed, started to heal). In the new trilogy? Gavin was nothing BUT truth seeking and willing to work with Apollo. Simon, in fact, besides his sadistic exterior was always a caring person, who was wrongly accused, and was willing to die for someone he knew. In DD Gavin was reduced to a blink and you'll miss it cameo, and SoJ Blackquill just doesn't have a death sentance hanging over his head. Here's what i think: Why not break the established formula and have different prosecutors for each case? Instead of them changing their ways, each one would impart a lesson on Athena instead. We have a pretty decent list of prosecuting attorneys already, even without putting Edgeworth into it for the sake of fanservice. Also add more interactions with said prosecutors outside of courtrooms, heck add some in between cases, like imagine going to detention center only to see that questioning isn't done and meet the prosecutor you just won against in previous trial finished questioning suspect for a different trial, unrelated to yours. And because said prosecutor stopped acting like dick towards defence attorney, actually talk, compare notes, maybe even in one case provide a theory that can be used to turn around the trial at a crucial point.
For a sec I thought you said “it’s been 78 years since the last ace attorney game”
idea for Athena what if simon kinda becomes what was maya to Phoenix but with Athena i think it would be a good idea they fell like siblings
I think a Mia fey trilogy would be awesome, it would show us her journey with the finale being Phoenix coming to work for her
Detective Gumshoe: Ace Detective.
Please.
More like Ass Detective
(I love gumshoe, but it is canon that he is awful at his job)
@@cheese0827 that's true 🤣
Watching this video has made me muse about this idea for a Ace Attorney Fanfic if I ever bother to go through with it that is since it's still a WIP. It also happens to be an idea for "Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney" where Phoenix is still around but mainly seems more focused on laying back and just taking care of the Agency. Given his prominence at this point and the wacky courtroom antics he dealt with up to now, especially the ones from Khu'rain, he'd likely be laying back or at least, focusing more on the larger cases (like you have suggested) thrown his way while leaving Athena with the smaller ones.
Funnily enough, this idea also involves introducing an OC that will be Athena's sidekick who is a young boy that just so happens to tag along with her. The reason is definitely silly but I'll just leave it at that. How he'd meet her would also involve Athena meeting a familiar witness from Spirit of Justice... and her tagging along with them as well.
Other returning characters seem to mostly draw from Investigations such as Sebastian Debeste who I think would be fun to have as the Prosecutor for her cases, especially the first one(s). I kinda wanted to build off from how in the end of Investigations II, he kinda needs to form his own identity. Simon Blackquill's involvement would come in a later case or rather, a partocularly big one which spoiler alert! Will likely be kept secret from the public.
Oh and uh, technology is a notable element in the story, especially with that OC sidekick (which could he compared to a new game mechanic or something similar if this were actually a game).
I have lots AND LOTS of ideas for future Ace Attorney games! Such as
*Athena gets her own trilogy
*Apollo eventually returns
*Possibly a new female defense attorney
*Athena get her own partner/assistant (I imagine a boy since Phoenix and Apollo have Maya and Trucy)
*A new female prosecutor for my Athena trilogy hope above (imagine a young woman who is the opposite of Pre-Character Devolopment Franziska)
*Dick Gumshoe, Maggey Byrde, Larry Butz, Winston Payne, The Tenmas, Juniper Woods, Robin Newman, Hugh O'Conner, Myriam Scuttlebutt, Solomon Starbuck, and The Judge's Brother all return (in anyways anyhow)
*more female murderers and culprits
*Representation in general (racial, lgbtq+, disabilites, etc)
*More breakdowns of course!
Whether it's an Apollo or Athena game all I ask is that it's not PHOENIX AGAIN. I'm genuinely sick of the other cast getting pushed aside because Phoenix makes more money. I'm still appalled they consider DD and SOJ as "Apollo games".
4:43: What reboot? There wasn't any reboot in Apollo's trilogy!. Also, his story fits perfectly in every subsequent game. We know very little of Apollo in Apollo Justice (being honest, Phoenix got the most attention in said game), all we know is that he was born a Gramarye, his father died in an accident and that he grew in a foster home. In Dual Destinies we discover what his life was like in said orphanage, meanwhile in Spirit of Justice we learn what his life was like prior to going to said orphanage, what caused his father to die (and who his father was) and how he was raised since he was a baby. None of this contradicts what was setup in Apollo Justice.
the problem with the reboots is that it kind of recontextualizes a lot of what occurred in Apollo Justice and make Apollo divide into three seperate characters with three different stories compared to one continuous story filtering into a development.
And a lot of the back stories just doesn't make sense. Like why would Apollo never mention he was raised in a foreign nation. And then his father and step-brother being attorneys in their own right, yet only mentions Phoenix being an inspiration for him to be a lawyer in Apollo Justice. And even if it is like "Apollo doesn't bring up his past often," it is like then what about Clay? In Dual Destinies he constantly brought up his "BEST FRIEND" despite never mentioning him in Apollo Justice at all. And if they are such close friends, why did Clay never come to even call Apollo on his first day as a lawyer or ever appear in the entire events in Apollo Justice? Apollo is very willing to share new parts about himself.
But even just taking away those little plot holes/contrivances within Apollo's own backstory, it just turns Apollo's character into just a filtering of character events. The twists to Apollo's characters is told through the events of the past he never brought up ever, so it just becomes less substantial and a superficial method of doing character development, making the events of the past be more telling than the character being impacted by said events.
Maybe if they finally actually connect the events together more smoothly instead of trying to fill in the blanks with random bullshit because they were never brought up would kind of make the development stronger. Especially if in AJ they established that friendship between Clay and Apollo earlier and then demonstrate the impact his death had by making him even more present in the final trial then maybe I would concede. But compared to say Phoenix's time in college filtering into his story and offer a converging point between him and Godot, the Apollo extra backstories just feel like twist fluff. Little substance and short term impact.
@@CoolCarGuy *"and make Apollo divide into three seperate characters with three different stories"*
No, it does not. Nothing in Apollo's trilogy divides Apollo's character more than Phoenix's trilogy would divide his. It might not be told in one straight line, but nothing in Apollo's backstory causes any contradiction.
*"Like why would Apollo never mention he was raised in a foreign nation."*
Because Apollo is the kind of person that never talks about his past till it becomes relevant. I mean, Apollo himself also did not mention much of his past in Apollo Justice either, so this would be a "problem" of said game as much as it is a problem of SoJ.
*"And then his father and step-brother being attorneys in their own right, yet only mentions Phoenix being an inspiration for him to be a lawyer in Apollo Justice."*
That can also be explained. Nahyuta (at the time Apollo was left in the orphanage) would have been too young to be a lawyer; Apollo was simply trying to fully forget who Dhurke was at the time, ergo, he wouldn't admit that Dhurke was part of the reason why Apollo is a lawyer.
*"it is like then what about Clay?"*
Because Clay was the victim of said case, his past with Clay became pertinent to the case at hand.
*"why did Clay never come to even call Apollo on his first day as a lawyer or ever appear in the entire events in Apollo Justice?"*
Eh, being an astronaut, he was probably busy. So he maybe simply couldn't make it.
Or maybe he did make it and we (the player) just did not see it because it wasn't important for the plot. I will remind you that Maya was continually visiting Phoenix yet she doesn't appear in-person till SoJ, so this can happen.
The third possibility is simply that Clay did not bother to contact Apollo. Believe it or not, that can happen, that is how my friends and I interact quite often.
*"it just turns Apollo's character into just a filtering of character events."*
That sounds a lot like Phoenix as well, not gonna lie. He also lacks much backstory (even more so than Apollo had) and he was also used to guide the player through character events.
*"The twists to Apollo's characters is told through the events of the past he never brought up ever, so it just becomes less substantial and a superficial method of doing character development,..."*
Dude, this describes like 90% of characters in fiction. It sounds to me like you simply don't like when a character's past is explored further in sequels to the work that said character debutted in.
*"Maybe if they finally actually connect the events together more smoothly..."*
Why? Not every single event in a character's life has to be fully connected to each other, that would be way way too contrived and confusing to do.
*"Especially if in AJ they established that friendship between Clay and Apollo earlier and then demonstrate the impact his death had by making him even more present in the final trial then maybe I would concede."*
Something that would require filler lines and scenes to do and that would just add fluff to the story of Apollo Justice because Clay Terran would serve literally no purpose in said game.
*"But compared to say Phoenix's time in college filtering into his story and offer a converging point between him and Godot,..."*
I will remind ya that there was no indication in the first two games of Phoenix's trilogy that he either knew Mia from his college years, nor that he dated "Dahlia" at all. That was added in in Trials and Tribulations in the same way DD added Clay Terran to Apollo's backstory.
Not going to lie, it just feels like over complicated ways to justify large leaps in logic on part of the writers. There is a lot of mental gymnastics that has to go to try and connect them when they aren't really thoroughly defined throughout the games. There is just too much different and just makes Apollo's character grown more about digging up the past that somehow exists compared to building it up as moments of him having to confront his past.
Lets compare this to Rocket from The Guardians Movies. He is very vocal he doesn't want to dredge up his past until it inevitably catches up to him in the third movie. Not only is his dark and complicated past referenced and set up, it is clearly shown they are impactful aspects to his character even when not directly revealed. Yet with Apollo's story between Apollo Justice to Dual Destinies to Spirit of Justice, there is no flow to them, there is barely any substance leading the past elements up to the final cases, and it makes Apollo's development entirely disconnected and broken apart. There is no build up, no slow growth, just the past showing up instead of being slowly developed.
Even with Phoenix's where despite his college not being established, throughout the game itself you can see moments where he references his disdain for what Dahlia did to him, and we are actually able to see the impact Dahlia had on him in the FIRST CASE. We barely even knew Clay existed until case 4 of Dual Destinies. And speaking of clay, i just entirely disagree that Clay and Apollo's past isn't pertinent to the case because you just entirely lose that emotional appeal or emotional sympathy you would have that Apollo himself is feeling. We just see Clay as another victim and not emotionally distraught like Apollo was. Like look at the reveal that the death of Elise Deauxinum was Misty Fey. That has more emotional significance knowing that Maya has been wanting to meet her mother for years only for the revelation that she will never meet her mother because she died trying to save her. That has a way more emotional impact compared to Apollo off chance saying "I have a best friend!" and then suddenly he is dead. there is nothing that makes me care for Clay before, during, or after his death which would then make me understand more of why Apollo is becoming so belligerent because we are only TOLD how Apollo feels about clay and not experiencing it.
The events themselves are just half baked, and just feels more like retcons because "oh it is a grey area so we can write whatever we want in it." It just makes it so disconnected just to give a very mid development of Apollo's character
@@CoolCarGuy *"it just feels like over complicated ways to justify large leaps in logic on part of the writers."*
Your reasoning for why it doesn't work feels like this as well.
*"There is a lot of mental gymnastics that has to go to try and connect them when they aren't really thoroughly defined throughout the games."*
Again, the same happens in 90% of fiction when a franchise grows and gets sequels.
*"There is just too much different and just makes Apollo's character grown more about digging up the past that somehow exists compared to building it up as moments of him having to confront his past."*
Dude, not only this ignores how, as I keep saying, this is just how a franchise normally grows, but you are also ignoring how Apollo himself grows in his skills as a lawyer and how he becomes more and more confident over his abilities at being a lawyer.
*"Not only is his dark and complicated past referenced and set up, it is clearly shown they are impactful aspects to his character even when not directly revealed."*
Yet nothing of the sort was even hinted at in the prior movies he was part of (a problem you seem to have with Apollo's backstory). Prior to GotG Vol.3 I couldn't even guess that is what his backstory was about because there weren't any hints to that being the case.
*"Yet with Apollo's story between Apollo Justice to Dual Destinies to Spirit of Justice, there is no flow to them,..."*
Again, because not everything in a character's life must be connected. It is fine if a character goes on adventures and has experiences that is not connected between "sagas", this just makes the character way more complex.
*"throughout the game itself you can see moments where he references his disdain for what Dahlia did to him, and we are actually able to see the impact Dahlia had on him in the FIRST CASE."*
No, there are no hints to this whatsoever, especially not in the first case of the franchise. You are reading way way too much right now.
*"And speaking of clay, i just entirely disagree that Clay and Apollo's past isn't pertinent to the case because you just entirely lose that emotional appeal or emotional sympathy you would have that Apollo himself is feeling."*
When did I say the oppossite? What I said was that Clay existing wasn't pertinent to any other cases that are not the final 2 of DD. It is not pertinent at in Apollo's debut game and adding him in would just be fluff for said game.
*"Like look at the reveal that the death of Elise Deauxinum was Misty Fey. That has more emotional significance knowing that Maya has been wanting to meet her mother for years only for the revelation that she will never meet her mother because she died trying to save her."*
Am sorry, but I not only feel that this death, but also this case (and the entire game as a whole) are quite overrated in my opinion. We not only not interact with Misty enough for her death to be as dramatic as you want it to be, but we know nothing of her as a character at all, we don't even know what her personality was like. At least Apollo explains to us who Clay was and how much Clay marked him as a friend.
*"there is nothing that makes me care for Clay before, during, or after his death which would then make me understand more of why Apollo is becoming so belligerent because we are only TOLD how Apollo feels about clay and not experiencing it."*
Again, this is exactly what I feel about Misty Fey. Maya only mentions her once in case 1-2, Misty becomes the indirect reasoning for case 2-2 and then she isn't even mentioned till case 3-5!. We know nothing of her when she returns and yet you are telling me that I must feel sorry that she died? Please.
*"The events themselves are just half baked, and just feels more like retcons because "oh it is a grey area so we can write whatever we want in it.""*
I am still unable to see the problem here. This just makes Apollo a more developed and complex character. Besides, let me remind you that Apollo Justice didn't setup anything at all when it came to his past, it was always left open for future development, how is it bad for a writer to take advantage of this and make Apollo a complex character?.
"Again, the same happens in 90% of fiction when a franchise grows and gets sequels." That isn't justifications of leaps in logic without trying to link them together more seamlessly.
"Dude, not only this ignores how, as I keep saying, this is just how a franchise normally grows, but you are also ignoring how Apollo himself grows in his skills as a lawyer and how he becomes more and more confident over his abilities at being a lawyer." Apollo's growth comes off as more rigid than a natural flow. This is mostly in due to the split attention between multiple protags, but Apollo simply doesn't have as much moments of slowly becomng better and overcoming conflict that someone like Phoenix or Naruhodo have, but Apollo's development from being a still struggling lawyer at the end of AJ to being rather competent in the start of DD is just jagged, and just doesn';t have the same impact or set up as Phoenix beating a perfect prosecutor like Edgeworth, him and Edgeworth bonding together to take down Dee, and Phoenix overcoming Edgeworth to defeat his mentor. Plus all of the development from Farewell and etc. and you can feel the slow growth as so many events tests his vigor and compitence as a lawyer. It is something subject to opinion maybe, but in my honest to god opinion, Apollo just doesn't show that development well with him being interuppted many times in his development.
"Yet nothing of the sort was even hinted at in the prior movies he was part of (a problem you seem to have with Apollo's backstory). Prior to GotG Vol.3 I couldn't even guess that is what his backstory was about because there weren't any hints to that being the case." I don't think you even watched the Guardians movies now. Gunn said he intentionally made Rocket the true protagonist of those movies, and he shows repeatedly all of the scars of his abuse for his creator, constantly brutes and shoves away his new Guardians family from trying to uncover his past due to his trauma, and the first movie literally directly names Lillia, Floors, and Teefs and key people he considers family. The movie directly shows how his past molded him into the stuborn and aggressive character he is and why he is able to slowly warm back up when the guardians and especially his interaction with Yondu in GOTG2 made him realize those flaws and want to be better. That is beautiful writing so undermining that aspect that they "don't bring up the past" just missed the entire movies.
"What I said was that Clay existing wasn't pertinent to any other cases that are not the final 2 of DD. It is not pertinent at in Apollo's debut game and adding him in would just be fluff for said game." & "At least Apollo explains to us who Clay was and how much Clay marked him as a friend." Once again, the exact problem. Tell not show. Telling how Apollo feels instead of showing them being friends is just lazy writing. There is little to no impact just from Apollo saying "YEAH I HAVE A BEST FRIEND HES GREAT" with no context out of no where is not character writing or character interaction. Especially since we don't even get his name till after he is dead.
"Again, this is exactly what I feel about Misty Fey. Maya only mentions her once in case 1-2, Misty becomes the indirect reasoning for case 2-2 and then she isn't even mentioned till case 3-5!. We know nothing of her when she returns and yet you are telling me that I must feel sorry that she died? Please." I'm going to be frank and I don't say this lightly: I genuinely don't think you have played the Ace Attorney trilogy at all after this.
Misty was directly name dropped and shown a picture of in 1-4 where they explained that she left Mia and Maya after being embarrassed as a spirit medium during the DL-6 incident. And through Maya we clearly see how much she is impacted by being the only one in her family basically, and with the introduction of Pearl, further exemplifying that she has to try and stay strong and be a motherly figure to Pearl because of the absence of Misty and the death of Mia. And in 2-2, Maya is then put further at target by morgan because she is trying to take the Master of the Kurain Channeling Technique as he own through Pearl since Misty's disappearance and eventual "legal" and true death fifteen years later. Misty is mentioned so much and is an ever present figure even. And even without being directly mentioned, she clearly has a impact on the stories of Mia and Maya, especially Maya trying to live up to the greatness of Misty and Mia, constantly failing, and viewing herself as useless and a failure because of it. And it makes it all the more tragic with the reveal of Misty's being the victim as it means Maya and her mother will never ever formally meet ever.
I'm not going to lie, I feel that is way more compelling compared to a best friend a step brother and step dad you never mentioned besides offhandedly here and there. Apollo's backstories are just so disconnected while someone like Misty even with her being absent is directly felt through Maya.
"Apollo Justice didn't setup anything at all when it came to his past, it was always left open for future development, how is it bad for a writer to take advantage of this and make Apollo a complex character?" One, you don't need to use backstory to make a compelling and complex character. Look at Ryunosuke Naruhodo from TGAA. And two, even though backstories can help, there actually was a backstory and plotline given for Apollo with Lamiroir and Apollo's dad. Feeding more useless stuff into that with disconnection just interrupts the already implied backstory.
"oh but dahlia wasn't implied in the first two games" yet it doesn't directly interfere with the established backstory nor does it embellish it into unrealistic and out of no where backstories.
Damn, imagine a Case 1 with Athena being so confident on her victory and having help from Phoenix at her side, and then in Case 2 Phoenix left to help Edgeworth, and Athena alone needs to confront the other presecutor, that is fresh late graduate because needed to take the final exam 5 times or something, a contrast to Athena prodigy, but also a show of the character determination, and that has the support of Klavier or Simon at their side.
Basicly a role reversal of the series archetypes.
Ooof, the potential...
The "spoiler rule" is the most nonsensical thing ever. Like, it runs directly _contrary to how a series works:_ You can't go into a sequel expecting to not get spoiled on previous installments.
Thus, trying to accommodate otherwise in a setting where continuity matters a lot inevitably results in sloppy writing, character stagnation, wasted potential, unresolved arcs/plotlines, etc.
Before the AJ Trilogy announcement came out, I would've said the best course of action would be to make another choral game, with a prosecutor bound to Phoenix (as opposed to Athena's Simon and Apollo's Nahyuta), that would create a trilogy of sorts with DD and SoJ. That way loose ends could be wrapped up, and it would make up the thematic incoherence from AJ to DD. Alas, Fate was not on our side lmao
So I want to propose something for "Keep Cameos to a minimum". Keep all cameos in the DLC case. Just make the DLC case the fanservice case while keep the rest of the game with only post reboot and new characters. (post reboot includes returning characters like Phoenix, Ema, Maya, Pearl and Edgeworth)
Just stuff the DLC case full of original trilogy characters. Maybe even entirely original trilogy characters. Including the culprit and victim. That way they are out of the way and you will also see what all the old characters we know and love became in the last 9 years.