5:56 You’re right: the nib assembly of a real VP alignes with the guidance from the groove in the pen body, from gravity alone, when you reassemble it.
The reason for such a blatant copy is the patent had expired on the VP. I believe it was 50 years. This made it fair game for Moonman/Majohn to replicate it without any legal repercussions. The pen isn't an exact copy, they changed up the design of the centre band. The Pilot one is a double ring design. On the plus side, Majohn did also release a Clipless version - this would satisfy the people who had grip issues with the VP clip version. The centre band on the Clipless is a unique design as well. So far, all parts are interchangeable between the VP and the A1. The A1 is a good value and may even became a gateway to people upgrading to a VP down the road.
I have 3 VP and a Decimo and had ordered a couple of A1 to be used as clipless cases for the nibs. Also makes good casual writing. The Moonman/Majohn cartridges and converters are also perfect upgrades to the Pilot ones.
@@theolich4384 Good move to utilize the better nib units in the less expensive bodies. Especially being able to use a Clipless version instead of hacking the actual VP.
in terms of copyright/trademark: this is China we’re talking about. the land of intellectual property theft. it’s where good ideas go to get stolen and mass produced.
You are absolutely correct about the spring. It IS too strong. My Vanishing Point spring is smaller, and has just the right tension to allow the tab to sit in the barrel slot. I had an extra Pilot gold nib assembly so I swapped it out with the stock MaJohn, which is not a Gold Nib. Apparently all the parts are interchangeable between the MaJohn and the Vanishing Point with the exception of the spring. My Mahjohn nock DOES have a touch more "slop," but frankly I never noticed it until you mentioned it. I don't find it objectionable, but I'm not an engineer. I chose the MaJohn with the roll stop because I hate the Pilot Pocket Clip getting in the way, BUT I found that the pocket clip DOES keep the nib oriented correctly which is otherwise on the Majohn not so automatic.
Thanks for covering this. I just went over and dropped a few bucks on this with the extra rewards points from my credit card. I'm normally against knockoff pens because I understand how much engineering goes into these, just to have someone steal the design. That being said, I appreciate that they offer a clipless version. That's the one feature that turns many people off from the authentic one.
As for stealing potential customers from Pilot, I don't think too many people going to buy a $30-40 knockoff are also legitimately considering the Pilot unless they're the type that would get this, fall in love with the form factor, then go buy the authentic model since they know it's something they like.
Have heard people complain the clip is skewed to one side - congrats to Pilot who did that first to fit fingers better and congrats Moonman / Majohn for noting one of the most subtle obscure details of the VP
This is my edc, fits perfectly in my chef coat's pen pocket. Accidentally bought two when I got into collecting pens. Been meaning to paint one, or buy a another colored one and swap parts to make them look different.
@@npcstudios I see the nibs available on Aliexpress, just in the one size though. If you look at the back of the nib unit where the cartridge is inserted you will see two notches cut out on the sides. There are no tools purchasable as far as I know, but a tool can be made to insert into these and over the nipple the cartridge is inserted which will then unscrew this part. The Moonman A1 nib I have is friction fit too, but took more effort to remove. There are also notches in the same place as on the Pilot unit, but I haven't attempted to unscrew it.
I have purchased several Majohn A1 fountain pens for myself and for family members over the past year. Generally, they are near perfect clone of the Pilot Vanishing point. However, a couple the pens did bleed. Noteworthy, there is a RUclips video that offers a way to correct the problem. The cause is very hard to diagnose but it centers on the nib/ink assembly and may be related to quality control issues during manufacturing. The most effective corrective action seems to be applying light silicone grease to seal the area where the nib is attached to the ink cartridge assemble. Overall, I am very pleased with the product.
This video did not mention that the original Pilot Vanishing Point had a thicker body than the later-introduced Pilot Decimo VP. I have both types, but I prefer the Decimo because it is thinner. Another thing: The joint where the A1 cap and barrel meet is recessed, whereas on the Pilot models there is a chrome ring. On the original version of the VPs the ring stands proud at the joint, but on the Decimo the ring is nearly flush, and is more aesthetically pleasing. The spring is probably as heavy as a pilot spring; they have heavy springs too. Lining up the tab with the slot is no big deal. I don't mind if a pen looks a little scruffy, as long as it writes decently. I have tried to find vintage VPs, but have been unsuccessful so far; I like that the clip is an en bloc construction.
My 2 North American VPs and 1 imported stainless steel nibbed Capless all have a lighter spring, but do seem to develop the ink spillage over time still. The trap door is also a beast to clean, I recommend long applicators (cotton swabs) to hold the door open, then rinse and swab out with another applicator.
So much details covered in the review. That's what I really like about your reviews. I don't have enough words to say how much I enjoy your detailed pen reviews.
I just got one of these rascals and I replaced the nib with a genuine Pilot 18k nib assembly and it works remarkably close to a Vanishing Point. The pen itself cost me $30 and the nib I got from Pen Chalet for $70, so for about $100 I have a pretty fair approximation of a Pilot VP for considerably less money. Of course, Moonman should be ashamed and I should feel bad, too, for buying it but Holy Crap! Wotta deal! I liked it so much I have another one on its way! Great video!
The difference isn't really that much when you consider how easily you can find a VP on sale, and how low they go 2nd hand. If the nib could be found for cheaper, definitely would be a tempting proposition but IMHO I would just pony up a little more and have the better fit and build quality of the real thing.
Good Stuff, DB! I purchased 2 VP’s back in ‘97. They have the faceted plastic body. The metal threading on the nib side recuts the plastic grooves on click side every time you close the VP from refilling it. The clip and nib shroud are a single contoured piece, not 2 pieces. The nib unit key does drop into the Keyway so you don’t have to pay much attention when screwing it back together like the A1. The nibs are both gold EF nibs, as that is what was available at that time. At this time I have 7 A1’s. 5 with clips, 2 clip-less. I find the clip version easier to keep the nib aligned to the paper as I grip the pen farther back on the barrel of the pen as opposed to having a tip-pinch grip. The first one I ordered, almost a year ago now, was in the piano black lacquer. The finish is starting to get rough and etched. I probably should have put some TSW on it to keep skin oils off. The nibs all write EF, and a touch dry. I have adjusted them to make them a little wetter writing, flossed and shimmed them. Frankly, the 2 vintage VP’s I have write dry also. I am going to order a VP replacement Fine, Medium and Broad unit to drop in the A1’s and see how they write, as a cheap alternative. I might order a new VP based on the nib tests. I like to have a “writing” pen in a finer nib, and a “signing” pen in a medium/broad nib, loaded with unwashable ink. But I admit, I’m a tad peculiar that way. After I replace one of the A1 nib units I’m going to autopsy the unit- just cause… Presently if you look about AliExpress the A1’s can be found sub $25 US with free shipping.
@@Cortesevasive The plastic threads in the upper section get recut/worn every time the pens are opened to re-ink them. They have a limited lifespan. So in their case they are relegated to the collection. As to nib units, Moonman doesn’t make other nib sizes, Pilot does. I don’t want to have scavenged pen carcasses laying in a box somewhere. As for being economical, it’s just money. You pinch-a-penny here, you splurge a dime there. If hoarding pens is bad, then you definitely don’t want to know about my wall of inks. Enjoy the hobby.
Now have three A1s. My matte black one has a real Pilot VP broad nib in it. The Pilot nib units are exchangeable with the A1. All three was currently inked, and I am having fun!. In the blue A1 I am using the converter, and in the orange & matte black I am using the cartridge. Have had no skipping, no dry nibs. For an EF nib, it is doing a good job. All three of my A1s have clips, which are not proving problematic. My only issue is MaJohn/Moonman is not making any aftermarket nib units. If you want a med, broad or stub nib unit, you will need to buy a VP replacement nib unit. Atlas Stationers in Chicago, Il. are offering VP nib units for $70. I refill my cartridges using a syringe, eliminating any "ink" mess. LOL. A Pilot VP with a medium nib cost more like $167. Have had no problem with the coating-- no chips at all. I do tend to be careful about how I handle my pens, irregularless of how much they cost. Interesting how the spring recoil does not bother me at all. For those who like clicking vs writing, then that clicker will hold up under that obsessive use. I spent $109 for three A1s, plus $70 for a VP broad nib unit, which means I have three A1s for $179, which would be the cost of the one Pilot VP I would like to have purchased.
I have one real VP and one moon man. By weight and feel the only way I can tell the difference blindfolded is the real VP has a bit of texture to its enamel finish while the moon man is smooth. I got it because I dropped my VP medium nib on the ground, messed it up and got a fine to replace it. I’ve since fixed the medium nib and was looking for a body to put it in. No one was selling just the VP bodies so I got a moon man. The nib units swap perfectly so now I essentially have two Vp, one in medium one in fine
First the Pilot Custom 823 (Wing Sung 699) and now this.... It's crazy how good both the pens are, especially at the 30 dollar price point. Thank you once again for such a detailed review! I have a vanishing point and I can confirm that the nib unit gets keyed in in the slot unlike this pen, and the knocker on the top is dead straight. I might decide to buy this pen just to get another nib unit for my VP :)
Yes, the real Pilot VP has a nib unit and body that allows the nib unit which allows the bump on the end of the nib unit to slide in the barrel before being screwed on. The spring on the Pilot VP feels more consistent than the copy. Not many talk about it but as someone who is into mechanical keyboards (with a spring under each key on your keyboard), it makes a big difference to me.
Also again yes, correct again DB! The crimps on the nib unit on the VP are at the same height, there are three of them evenly spaced between eachother. The crimps on my A1 are the same as yours so I doubt it's done by hand.
LOL I should really make these all in one comment but it's easier to type bit by bit. Yes, the knock on my A1 is off by a few degrees as well. I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it, the knock on my Pilot VP is always dead straight.
Thanks for all the info on comparing with your genuine VP. I was flying blind but just had a feeling those things would be taken care of properly on a Pilot version
@@Doodlebud DoodleBud noticed me! I feel honoured. Funnily enough, the more I write with my A1 the more I appreciate my VP. The VP really just has better fit and finish but most importantly the nib and feed are better tuned. Whilst the EF on my A1 is smooth for an EF that's really all I can say that's good about it, it's quite dry and very stiff which just doesn't suit the way I hold my A1. In comparison my VP has a fine 18k gold nib and it's a bit springy, quite responsive, smoother, significantly wetter but not a gusher so good for every day writing and it doesn't leak as much ink atop the nib and around the exterior of the feed.
Just got my clipless today and I am very pleased. My intention was to put my spare VP nib unit in it but it currently writes like a dream. Very smooth. I have 7 OG Pilot pens so I have no shame with this.
Great in-depth review as usual. I have this exact pen along with two Pilot VPs (one vintage). I used the Moonman for 4-5 month as an everyday writer and it never missed a beat until the Pilot blue-black cartridge went dry. Yes, Pilot cartridges fit and work in it. I’ve actually had more problems with my Pilot VPs drying out, especially the vintage one, which I think needs to have the trap door repaired. Moonman has the same wonky plunger on the nock as yours although a bit less noticeable. Anyone who cares about the appearance will find the Pilot units to be spectacular in comparison to the finish on the Moonman, but performance is really quite similar. PS, both Pilots have the gold nib unit. Thanks for your hard work and diligence.
Apparently the patent that Pilot had on the VP has expired which allows people to make exact copies like this. As mentioned in another comment, the VP internals fit perfectly in the A1 and same goes the other way. The backs can even be swapped although, they don't quite fit perfectly because of the difference in the ring. A good quality copy of a "desirable pen" makes a great way to find out if you would actually like the VP, without dropping the price of a VP. It's also great for those who want a VP but can't afford one. That all said I completely agree, they should have done a bit more to make it look different, even if they kept the Pilot internals.
The patent may have expired but the copyright on the design is very probably still in effect. This is a combination of the Chinese culture of taking "Anything you can do, I can do better/cheaper/easier" and a backing from the central government to disregard international IP agreements. This is why the TWSBI fiasco was so weird to me. Clearly there was a Taiwan mainland China political thing here, but calling others in your market puddle names when you are knowingly both using public domain designs was bound to fail. Either way, this is not just a 1:1 look-alike, they copied it down to the threading, you can actually mix not just the internal unit, even the back and front parts can be interchanged, so if you broke a section or a knock on your VP, the A1 can be used for spare parts. My only gripe is that it sprays ink inside like mad, Doug Rathbun had it too. I tried using different glues to slop the leakage and restore sanity, but it was no use. either the knocking-around inside when you click it is too much or the design it just bad. I ended up giving up on the original unit and getting an original VP, so I went all out and got it with a black nib and a B tip. problem is it seems to have the biggest baby buttcrack I have ever experienced in a pen, and I will fix that one myself. This has now cost me almost the price of an original complete VP...
@@Seefood73 Can't really copyright or trademark much about pen design, so once the patent expires as long as they don't use your name, and pass it off as a counterfeit, then there isn't much Pilot can do.
@@martinlebl631 can't copyright industrial design? I am pretty sure there are international treaties saying otherwise, or there would be copies of the Lamy 2000 and all other products all over the place.
@@martinlebl631 ok, I stand corrected, seems like it changes from country to country and may be much shorter lived than rights on music, books, pictures, etc. Learned something new today 😄
@@Seefood73 Trademarking industrial design is difficult, and fairly new protection, and not available everywhere. Lamy 2000 is difficult to copy due to the material used, that many others can't make in similar quality. Copyright is mostly for performance of an idea, be it writing, song, or movies. Used to be limited in time, but due to lobbying by the music industry and Disney has been extended many times. So it is now very long in time protection indeed. Used to be 20+ years that could be renewed and now life of author plus many years after. Still varies country to country, but much longer. Now patent protection is shortest. Copyright could easily run 100+ years. Trademarks are forever, unless diluted or abandoned, but much more limited in scope. Industrial design can be protected by patent, but that only last a short time, and if very distinctive, then by trademark, but that is very hard to achieve.
About the nib ink blotch. I've heard from those who have the VPs mentioning it is also common among pilot pens. This is second hand knowledge, I only have the A1. Edit : I too have the ink blotch on my A1, it doesn't affect performance
The crimps of my VP unit are like that of the Majohn; they are spaced equally - like if you were to divide a pie in thirds - and none are 180 degrees from each other. One is closer to the step-down that the other two. I looked at all 4 of my VP units (EF, F, M and SU), and they are all like that. I might get one to see if the VP nib unit fits in the notch before reassembling the pen, but I'm afraid of damaging the 18k nib. 🤔😱😨
Have both VP and A1. Love them both. Only thing I notice on the A1 is the paint on the clicker is wearing off. Other than that it works great and I sometimes put my Vo Gold Nib in the jet black A1. All converters and cartridges are interchangeable as well
I bought an A1 a while back to help decide if I liked the idea enough to buy a VP. I most certainly do. I really like the A1 and will probably get a clipless model. I purchased a VP just as you published this video. With this small sample size, so far the details you predicted in a pen from Pilot have been true: the spring is softer, the clicker doesn’t wiggle, etc. The Pilot nib is spectacular enough that I’ve wanted to use it to the exclusion of all other pens I have inked. This could explain why I haven’t had problems with the VP drying out. 😃 In the end, I’m happy to have tried the A1, and much happier that I ended up with a VP, as well. I’ll be happier getting more VPs than I will more A1s.
I purchased the clip less model and and am amazed by how smooth the EF nib is. My Pilot Vanishing Point currently has a medium nib which is juicy wet, very nice. The A1 was purchased so I could put my second Vanishing Point fine nib in it, but the A1 nib is so great I may not make the change very often. The clicker button on the A1 is virtually the same as the original VP and the finish on my Orange model is very nice.
Only had problems with my Vanishing point Crimson sunrise. The nib in that is awful does not take much use to get it somehow missaligned or bent. All my other pens are ok. All gold nibs Parker, platinum, Sailor.
I have one Pilot Capless, one Majohn A1 & two Majohn A2's... All of them are wonderful! (& I have another A1 & A2 en route) I have swapped the internals between all 3 of them with no issues (because I wanted the color of the installed cartridge to match the body of the pen) I WILL say that the Pilot & the A1 both open & retract super smoothly, but the A2 is not as smooth mechanically. All of them write beautifully & I as I often use multiple colors of ink for work, these are perfect. Portable, functional, & I still get my fountain pen fix! (I took my Pilot apart while watching this & the crimps are in the same place & staggered slightly in height as well)
Looks just like the real deal. I have the black matte original. I’ll have to get one and swap parts to see just how far they recreated it. Hoping at the least Pilot gets a kick back for IP license but highly doubtful.
Hey bud…I am pretty sure Doug over at inkquiring minds has a VP that he would probably let you borrow to compare. I know he is closer in proximity to you. But if not, I’d be happy to send you one to borrow so you can do a side by side. Let me know DB. I can tell you, majohn/moonman knocked it out of the park with this copy. I have one as well as several VPs and the differences are minimal and you picked up on most of the differences without even handing a VP. Well done friend!
They make these with no clip too, very interesting as someone with two VPs might be cool to try one without a clip. Wonder if it weighs the same? The vp is a bit heavy, that's my only complaint really
I'd love to try the A1, but I already have a vintage pen on the way from overseas and I want to enjoy it before I get another... but howdy do... I like the idea of a VP or a capless pen with a mechanism because it would be my EDC, more than likely. Thanks for sharing and picking apart the mechanisms of this Moonman/Majohn! 🙂
Thanks for the review. I picked one up a couple months back for about $30 USD. I've noticed recently that the price is creeping up. I used it as my daily driver for a while. No issues. Writes great. The only negative for me is nib size, it's too fine for my taste. I would like to see them offer medium and broad. I have a Pilot Vanishing Point as well and I see the same issue with ink gathering near the nib with heavy use. Overall, the Majohn A1 is a great pen.
yes in fact the spring is not quite as strong in a real vp, and the alignment nub on the nib/feed unit sits lower in that channel, even lower than where you speculated. (it sits so that the bottom half-circle is just out of view, if that makes any sense.) i highly recommend the real vanishing point. i love mine so much, and the gold nib is much smoother and bouncier than the steel nib on the moonman.
oh and one more difference i noticed - the tip of the pen body tapers a bit more on the real vp, and the opening is smaller. i guess making a complete copy of the vp's mechanism was a little too hard to do cost-effectively without sizing it up just a little bit, or maybe assembly was a challenge at that size.
11:54 I read the comments but I couldn't find the answer whether the Pilot Vanishing Point has well aligned crimps. Did you got any information about it?
Everything looks nearly identical to the VP. the only difference, as you stated, is that the VP nib unit goes all the way down into the slot before you screw the cap on. Also, pretty certain my nib touches the trap door, definitely does on the way back at least. Wonder if there’s something wrong.
I had a Pilot Decimo vanishing point. Expensive. I had 2 nibs, a stub and a medium. I. didn't like either so I sold it. I will try one of these Majong pens
It's possible, but bet the thread would be pretty shewy from running the backside of that crimp down it. Would have to be a fine pitch thread due to thin material wall, and that crimp running up & down it would probably be nice & grindy LOL. For some it's nails on a chalk board that sends them shivers. For me, it's bad threads 😣 If I close my eyes I can feel & hear the grinding
I got the pilot fountain pen and I don't think the spring is too strong but I didn't know there were cheap knockoffs till today so I come in here to check it out, it's pretty close to the real McCoy
I bought one from Amazon and am waiting it to arrive... I'll plan used it as my beater fountain pen instead of a Dlike brass one I got, I like the Dlike but the clicking mechanism makes the Pilot VP and this Majonh A1 quicl note takers wich is why I really need, it's a shame I couldn't get a smaller size design of this pen. Thanks for the video. PS. I'm planning to brush the laker of the Majonh A1 yo give it a raw brass appearance like the Dlike, I hope I won't mess it up 😅🤞
I just got my A1 today. And I noticed some differences between the VP and A1. First is how smooth the clicking mechanism is on the VP. The A1 feels a bit rough when clicking it. Second is what you mentioned about the feed part. The A1 has a strong spring that doesn’t let the nib unit to fall into the notch on the barrel. Third is when I put in the cartridge that came with the A1, the cartridge is kinda leaning to one side. Unlike in VP where the cartridge will fit in the feed unit in a straight way. Third is if you look at the trap door part of the pens, the VP has a more rounded opening while the A1 has a more angular opening. I’m pretty sure I’ll find more differences the more I use the A1. But it won’t stop me from using the A1. In fact, I even bought another A1 because I love how it feels and writes for a fraction of the price of the VP.
I'm not a fan of companies copying designs, but at least with this one they did a good job. Really angers me when they copy but do a terrible job and cut a bunch of corners.
i ordered 2 of these a while back and one failed spectacularly and bled ink all over the place. the other one is a perfectly fine counterfeit vanishing point, just with a stiffer, steel nib.
@@martinlebl631 depends on the country - laws are different everywhere. the mechanism, the shape, and even just the idea can all be protected in some legal jurisdictions
@@Danny.._ Yes, that is a patent, but that expires. On purpose, to oromote competition. Patent law is essentially harmonized by treaties worldwide. Generic cigar pen shape hard to protect by copyright, as that isn't for objects, and only few countries have design trademarks, which are hard to get, so most fifty year old products, like vanishing point, don't have those. If they don't slap Pilot name, logo, or unique graphic, like the middle ring, on it, then they can pretty safely sell it just about anywhere.
I love the engineering perspective(s) that you put into your videos. You do a great job that is so much better than the boring unboxing and here's a scribble on some paper thing that so many others do. I have a question, though,. You don't happen to own a PIlot Vanishing Point do you? ;)
Was at a 6hr work conference the other day. Took this pen, was perfect. I really get the appeal & utility of the VP. The real deal is obviously nicer, but for the price of this A1.... DAMN!
I understand you can swap the nib assembly with a Vanishing Point version. If you go for the Vanishing Point, find an earlier model. It's lighter and especially the clip in further down the cap so it is not impeding your grip or fingers.
Every time you said “I don’t have a VP”, I was asking “why on earth he hasn’t got one yet ?” !! I guess making a flawless knockoff is also quite skillful ! I’m holding a Moonman X1, a knock-off of Montblanc Boheme retractable pen as I’m writing this comment !!!
I have the clipless version, and I love it! I didn't want the Pilot version because of the clip placement. It's just not comfortable for me. But this pen ... Wow! It's so well balanced. The nib is really smooth. I still can't figure out how they did it for $35. For those saying the design was stolen, I believe the patent on the Capless / VP / Decimo has expired. So there aren't any actual laws being broken, at least from what I understand.
the way they did it for $35 is the same way pilot does it for $170 once youve got the design and manufacture for all the components worked out something like this doesnt cost all that much to make pilots just hiking the price wayyyyy up
When you get the real vanishing point, could you also make a video about it? I've seen 100s of videos about that pen, and I'm still debating whether I should get one or not
I have the PIlot Vanishing point Carbonesque with a medium nib and a spare Pilot italic nib. I just received the Majohn A1. The construction of the Majohn is acceptable but not as good as the pilot. The clicking action on the Majohn A1 has an unpleasant rub that is not smooth like the Pilot's click action. Aside from that, the bodies of both pens are very similar. However, the Pilot pen is noticeably tighter/more solid in construction. The Majohn A1 nib works but is a disappointment compared to the Pilot nib. It feels scratchy in certain angles and the flow of ink is dry. I have other Moonman pens, with the standard number 6 type nib, and they have been all okay. I am surprised at how poorly this A1 nib performs. I put my extra Pilot nib into the Majohn A1 body and it fits very nicely and works fine. The Pilot nibs are superior in every way but they do cost many times more. I will not be using the Majohn A1 nib.
Guess your A1 nib is a bit of an outlier and I've heard really good response about the nibs. But yeah, build on a VP should be much better, hence the price tag. But all in all, pretty damn good pen for the $35CAD I spent.
I respect these people/company to produce them as they gives some less fortunate or cannot afford peeps a chance to tryout the product whatever it may be. So I call these "copy" instead of disrespecting or insulting words like knockoff or fake. (I love copy products/items, i search for them first instead of the first/original one) if the product is good in this case Pilot is extremely good with awesome quality control then people will eventually buy it after trying a copy. I also do not believe in "support your local business" mindset, I support only those who are friendly to my wallet plus law of diminishing returns wisdom.
Thank you for linking that video about the background of Chinese imitation culture. I understand this better now. Also thanks for the detailed video. However I still think that these products don't deserve to get more publicity. I think that we should be more and more conscious about our purchasing decisions and what are the business activities we support by those purchases. I find it very frustrating that many people are motivated by price only and disregard how those products are made -- e.g. terrible worker conditions, disregards for environmental issues, or in this case undercutting competition by mitigating development and marketing costs via a blatant IP theft. Moonman has some decent low budget models that are original (AFAIK) like the M2. They should get publicity for that and not for their knock off models.
Hey DB I have a question for you unrelated to this specific video, but still pen related, if you don’t mind. I want to buy some plain B nibs and try to do some of my own grinding but I can’t really afford proper grinding stones. Do you think one could use, at least to start out, grinding different nibs with regular micro mesh pads? And if so how high should I go with the grit when purchasing to be able to do it all properly
The lower grit pads will wear out quickly. The low cost setup would be some coarse grit wet sandpaper (220, 600, 1000, 2000) then a few micromesh pads (4000, 8000, 12000). Put the sandpaper on some type of flat surface (wood block, tile, glass). Grind the geometry with the sandpaper then finish & smooth on the micromesh. You can pick up a 400/1000 combo stone pretty cheap from amazon, then just use micromesh pads to finish it off as well. And as a bonus you can use the same stone to sharpen your knives if you want to learn as well. The stone goes for about $11 on Amazon
@@Doodlebud oh wow. When I was looking into them a couple months ago I could have sworn the stones were more expensive. I will have to look into that more. Thanks so much man!
I've heard the Pilot copyright has expired, so copying is OK. Public domain is there for all, companies included. What would be bad is if they were claiming to be Pilot, which they aren't. Funny, you don't hear people complain about books in the public domain being copied, or medicine being much cheaper because it's in the public domain. Disney has made LOADS of money using stories from the public domain.
From an engineer's perspective it's more about the lack of creativity. Creative thinking is the path that someone bypasses when they copy. So nothing new is created in that process. Now if someone takes an existing idea and improves it a little bit, that's great! That took creativity & now there's a new contribution to the overall knowledge base. Now the argument can be made that copying something and reducing the overall quality, but intern being able to lower the price and make something more accessible to everybody is a good thing. I don't have a problem with that. That thinking is all around us all the time and we all benefit. That's why I gave this particular pen good remarks because they actually did a very good job. Only 1 minor change I would suggest and its just a simple spring swap out. They copied, made it cheaper, but with great execution. So at the end of the day, if you're not going to be the one innovating, at least give it your best effort in your copies and don't cut corners. Do it the best you can for that new lower price point. You will have to compromise on material selections, but instead optimize on cost savings in creative manufacturing & assembly techniques. That I respect big time! Being cheap & clever I respect. Being cheap & shitty, no respect 🤓
@@Doodlebud >Being cheap & shitty, no respect Have to agree with that! >it's more about the lack of creativity. OK. Creativity and improvements are certainly nice. And I think greatly reduced prices is nice as well, which you also noted. However, in these such discussions, I often see people being strongly opposed to the "copies" and often using language that is both incorrect and intended to be highly negative. You didn't do that. Stuff being in the public domain is highly beneficial to the public for a variety of reason. As for myself, as a side gig I've made over $50,000 the last several years selling some products which were derived from things in the public domain, and yes, which I improved. Not pens. :)
@@erad67 Yup, all it takes is someone to build on an existing idea to come up with a new application, process, product, efficiency, etc. We all benefit from that and that person made a contribution to the greater good which can multiply into more good. 👍👍 We're told not to copy in school so we most immediately conflate the two concepts of "copying." The copying in learning is bad because nobody wins. Copying in creativity & innovation is good because it's like evolution. Each new concept is built upon the knowledge base of the last, therefore expanding the knowledge base. Win win
My experience is another. The pen nib is leaking, The ink goes all over the nib, if you start to write, first came out a big point of ink. The nib doesn't write well, it is very scratchy, even when I tried to work on it. By the way, if the hole front section is full of ink, how can you clean it? Because the door doesn't open. So my Majohn A1 pen ist a big disappointment! I have contaced the seller, they only said, sorry we can't solve the problems!, that ist ridiculous. Best greetings from Austria.
Oh wow, sounds like you got a bit of a defective pen. If it was Pilot, they would take care of it for you, but that is the tradeoff with these pens. The service is essentially zero. I've gotten 2 of them now and they have both been amazing. Guess its just luck of the draw sometimes
I'm fine with copying mechanisms after a while(the vanishing point is way past being patentable), but I just find it lazy to outright copy a visual design. It's just so boring and uncreative. Even if you're copying it to make an affordable version for a different market for example, you can still come up with something new and interesting looking.
I own a Capless and an A1, and with a sample size of 1 the A1 actually works better. The action isn't as smooth but it writes much more reliably. If I don't use the Pilot for a week it won't start without wetting the nib; the A1 has always started up right away. Personally I don't care that they copied the mechanism. What bothers me a bit is that Moonman just copied everything. If they had offered it I'd much rather have a unique design by them withh the same mechanism.
Just a thought… the clip less version that Moonman offers is definitely a design difference. I really like the clip less A1, and nothing like that is offered by Pilot.
Hello. Its would be my first time buying a pen on this style so I was hoping you could help me. I could by this from Etsy with 45€ and get it in almost 3 weeks or I could give 15€ more and buy a Platinum Curidas and get it in 2 days. Whats ur thoughts. I really hope u see this. Thank u
I wouldn't make how long you have to wait the deciding factor for a pen. Some ofy favorite pens took me several years to acquire. Those pens look & fit in the hand very different. Watch reviews on both and decide from that, not wait time
I’m tempted to snag what is essentially a $35 VP, but I really hate how these Chinese companies essentially steal designs, so I really don’t want to support them. Thanks for the review!!
Makes no difference, as they make these for the Chinese market. The export market is just too small to influence this, whereas in their domestic market the copies are in demand.
@@martinlebl631 great point. The profit they make from me is small; the Chinese market for those will give them all the profit they want. All the same. I struggle to support it on a matter of principle. Though, I wonder if Chinese folks can even buy a legitimate Pilot VP and if this is the only option they have. If so, who am I to judge they who are oppressed in China for wanting to buy a cool product? It’s a surprisingly complex issue?
Finally a reviewer with impeccable nails! :)
It doesn't happen on all my vids trust me
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
5:56 You’re right: the nib assembly of a real VP alignes with the guidance from the groove in the pen body, from gravity alone, when you reassemble it.
Thx for letting me know
That’s also one of the first things I noticed with the A1.
I have two Majohn A1 and I have just bought another one but with no clip. There are marvelous!
My wife forgot her Pilot Decimo in Burgundy in a pocket of a garment she put in the washing-machine!
It came out clean! And the laquer unaffected!
Thats a good paint job!
The reason for such a blatant copy is the patent had expired on the VP. I believe it was 50 years. This made it fair game for Moonman/Majohn to replicate it without any legal repercussions. The pen isn't an exact copy, they changed up the design of the centre band. The Pilot one is a double ring design. On the plus side, Majohn did also release a Clipless version - this would satisfy the people who had grip issues with the VP clip version. The centre band on the Clipless is a unique design as well. So far, all parts are interchangeable between the VP and the A1. The A1 is a good value and may even became a gateway to people upgrading to a VP down the road.
Can't violate Pilot trademark, but most of the pen isn't trademarkeable, so just change those, and voila a legal copy.
I have 3 VP and a Decimo and had ordered a couple of A1 to be used as clipless cases for the nibs. Also makes good casual writing. The Moonman/Majohn cartridges and converters are also perfect upgrades to the Pilot ones.
@@theolich4384 Good move to utilize the better nib units in the less expensive bodies. Especially being able to use a Clipless version instead of hacking the actual VP.
in terms of copyright/trademark: this is China we’re talking about. the land of intellectual property theft. it’s where good ideas go to get stolen and mass produced.
Whoa, I didn't know the pilot vanishing point had been around for at least 50 years?!?!
You are absolutely correct about the spring. It IS too strong. My Vanishing Point spring is smaller, and has just the right tension to allow the tab to sit in the barrel slot. I had an extra Pilot gold nib assembly so I swapped it out with the stock MaJohn, which is not a Gold Nib. Apparently all the parts are interchangeable between the MaJohn and the Vanishing Point with the exception of the spring. My Mahjohn nock DOES have a touch more "slop," but frankly I never noticed it until you mentioned it. I don't find it objectionable, but I'm not an engineer. I chose the MaJohn with the roll stop because I hate the Pilot Pocket Clip getting in the way, BUT I found that the pocket clip DOES keep the nib oriented correctly which is otherwise on the Majohn not so automatic.
Thanks for covering this. I just went over and dropped a few bucks on this with the extra rewards points from my credit card.
I'm normally against knockoff pens because I understand how much engineering goes into these, just to have someone steal the design.
That being said, I appreciate that they offer a clipless version. That's the one feature that turns many people off from the authentic one.
As for stealing potential customers from Pilot, I don't think too many people going to buy a $30-40 knockoff are also legitimately considering the Pilot unless they're the type that would get this, fall in love with the form factor, then go buy the authentic model since they know it's something they like.
Have heard people complain the clip is skewed to one side - congrats to Pilot who did that first to fit fingers better and congrats Moonman / Majohn for noting one of the most subtle obscure details of the VP
This is my edc, fits perfectly in my chef coat's pen pocket. Accidentally bought two when I got into collecting pens. Been meaning to paint one, or buy a another colored one and swap parts to make them look different.
On the Pilot the nib unit can be taken apart with a tool that goes in the back. The nib is also friction fit on the feed, kind of like a Lamy.
Do you know where you can find one of these tools? I've never heard of this before. Also, Majohn has allegedly started selling just the nib of the A1.
@@npcstudios I see the nibs available on Aliexpress, just in the one size though. If you look at the back of the nib unit where the cartridge is inserted you will see two notches cut out on the sides. There are no tools purchasable as far as I know, but a tool can be made to insert into these and over the nipple the cartridge is inserted which will then unscrew this part. The Moonman A1 nib I have is friction fit too, but took more effort to remove. There are also notches in the same place as on the Pilot unit, but I haven't attempted to unscrew it.
@@ChrisM-st1pw
I have purchased several Majohn A1 fountain pens for myself and for family members over the past year. Generally, they are near perfect clone of the Pilot Vanishing point. However, a couple the pens did bleed. Noteworthy, there is a RUclips video that offers a way to correct the problem. The cause is very hard to diagnose but it centers on the nib/ink assembly and may be related to quality control issues during manufacturing. The most effective corrective action seems to be applying light silicone grease to seal the area where the nib is attached to the ink cartridge assemble. Overall, I am very pleased with the product.
This video did not mention that the original Pilot Vanishing Point had a thicker body than the later-introduced Pilot Decimo VP. I have both types, but I prefer the Decimo because it is thinner. Another thing: The joint where the A1 cap and barrel meet is recessed, whereas on the Pilot models there is a chrome ring. On the original version of the VPs the ring stands proud at the joint, but on the Decimo the ring is nearly flush, and is more aesthetically pleasing. The spring is probably as heavy as a pilot spring; they have heavy springs too. Lining up the tab with the slot is no big deal. I don't mind if a pen looks a little scruffy, as long as it writes decently. I have tried to find vintage VPs, but have been unsuccessful so far; I like that the clip is an en bloc construction.
Thanks for an intelligent and comprehensive review.
I received mine today and I switch the nib unit and put my decimo nib unit in it and it writes and works just as good as a pilot vanishing point
Thanks for the review, it made me buy one today 2.24.2024 on eBay. It should be here next month 3.20.2024, great review.
My 2 North American VPs and 1 imported stainless steel nibbed Capless all have a lighter spring, but do seem to develop the ink spillage over time still.
The trap door is also a beast to clean, I recommend long applicators (cotton swabs) to hold the door open, then rinse and swab out with another applicator.
So much details covered in the review. That's what I really like about your reviews. I don't have enough words to say how much I enjoy your detailed pen reviews.
Thanks buddy. I just record what I see and look at when I get a pen in my hands
I just got one of these rascals and I replaced the nib with a genuine Pilot 18k nib assembly and it works remarkably close to a Vanishing Point. The pen itself cost me $30 and the nib I got from Pen Chalet for $70, so for about $100 I have a pretty fair approximation of a Pilot VP for considerably less money. Of course, Moonman should be ashamed and I should feel bad, too, for buying it but Holy Crap! Wotta deal! I liked it so much I have another one on its way! Great video!
I think thats what im gonna do, get a VP nib
Yep, I’ve done the same thing. Only thing I don’t like about the Moonman is that it only comes in an XF nib. But pilot nibs fix that problem.
Why should they feel ashamed? The patent expired and they made a great copy lol
The difference isn't really that much when you consider how easily you can find a VP on sale, and how low they go 2nd hand.
If the nib could be found for cheaper, definitely would be a tempting proposition but IMHO I would just pony up a little more and have the better fit and build quality of the real thing.
Good Stuff, DB!
I purchased 2 VP’s back in ‘97. They have the faceted plastic body. The metal threading on the nib side recuts the plastic grooves on click side every time you close the VP from refilling it. The clip and nib shroud are a single contoured piece, not 2 pieces. The nib unit key does drop into the Keyway so you don’t have to pay much attention when screwing it back together like the A1. The nibs are both gold EF nibs, as that is what was available at that time.
At this time I have 7 A1’s. 5 with clips, 2 clip-less. I find the clip version easier to keep the nib aligned to the paper as I grip the pen farther back on the barrel of the pen as opposed to having a tip-pinch grip.
The first one I ordered, almost a year ago now, was in the piano black lacquer. The finish is starting to get rough and etched. I probably should have put some TSW on it to keep skin oils off.
The nibs all write EF, and a touch dry. I have adjusted them to make them a little wetter writing, flossed and shimmed them. Frankly, the 2 vintage VP’s I have write dry also.
I am going to order a VP replacement Fine, Medium and Broad unit to drop in the A1’s and see how they write, as a cheap alternative. I might order a new VP based on the nib tests. I like to have a “writing” pen in a finer nib, and a “signing” pen in a medium/broad nib, loaded with unwashable ink. But I admit, I’m a tad peculiar that way.
After I replace one of the A1 nib units I’m going to autopsy the unit- just cause…
Presently if you look about AliExpress the A1’s can be found sub $25 US with free shipping.
If you have the original VP why buy the A1? . Also buying nib units aint that economical too. Hoarding is a drug mate.
@@Cortesevasive The plastic threads in the upper section get recut/worn every time the pens are opened to re-ink them. They have a limited lifespan. So in their case they are relegated to the collection. As to nib units, Moonman doesn’t make other nib sizes, Pilot does. I don’t want to have scavenged pen carcasses laying in a box somewhere. As for being economical, it’s just money. You pinch-a-penny here, you splurge a dime there.
If hoarding pens is bad, then you definitely don’t want to know about my wall of inks.
Enjoy the hobby.
Yup, you are right, the Vanishing Point doesn't have any of those issues you pointed out 😉
All we need is ripoff for pilot falcon. So popular but no knockoffs!
Glad you tried this! Pilot VP is one of my favorites. I have a standard VP, LS, Fermo, and Decimo. Love them all.
Might have to end up getting the real deal after this A1
Now have three A1s. My matte black one has a real Pilot VP broad nib in it. The Pilot nib
units are exchangeable with the A1. All three was currently inked, and I am having fun!.
In the blue A1 I am using the converter, and in the orange & matte black I am using the
cartridge. Have had no skipping, no dry nibs. For an EF nib, it is doing a good job. All three
of my A1s have clips, which are not proving problematic. My only issue is MaJohn/Moonman
is not making any aftermarket nib units. If you want a med, broad or stub nib unit, you will
need to buy a VP replacement nib unit. Atlas Stationers in Chicago, Il. are offering VP nib
units for $70. I refill my cartridges using a syringe, eliminating any "ink" mess. LOL. A
Pilot VP with a medium nib cost more like $167. Have had no problem with the coating--
no chips at all. I do tend to be careful about how I handle my pens, irregularless of
how much they cost. Interesting how the spring recoil does not bother me at all. For
those who like clicking vs writing, then that clicker will hold up under that obsessive
use. I spent $109 for three A1s, plus $70 for a VP broad nib unit, which means I
have three A1s for $179, which would be the cost of the one Pilot VP I would like to
have purchased.
I have one real VP and one moon man. By weight and feel the only way I can tell the difference blindfolded is the real VP has a bit of texture to its enamel finish while the moon man is smooth. I got it because I dropped my VP medium nib on the ground, messed it up and got a fine to replace it. I’ve since fixed the medium nib and was looking for a body to put it in. No one was selling just the VP bodies so I got a moon man. The nib units swap perfectly so now I essentially have two Vp, one in medium one in fine
This is a very useful usecase to keep old abandoned nib units in circulation.
First the Pilot Custom 823 (Wing Sung 699) and now this.... It's crazy how good both the pens are, especially at the 30 dollar price point. Thank you once again for such a detailed review! I have a vanishing point and I can confirm that the nib unit gets keyed in in the slot unlike this pen, and the knocker on the top is dead straight.
I might decide to buy this pen just to get another nib unit for my VP :)
After this pen I might end up getting a real VP LOL
Love all my 699s. The shape is right, and so is the price.
You can also put a nice Pilot nib unit in this cheap body.
Yes, the real Pilot VP has a nib unit and body that allows the nib unit which allows the bump on the end of the nib unit to slide in the barrel before being screwed on.
The spring on the Pilot VP feels more consistent than the copy. Not many talk about it but as someone who is into mechanical keyboards (with a spring under each key on your keyboard), it makes a big difference to me.
Also again yes, correct again DB! The crimps on the nib unit on the VP are at the same height, there are three of them evenly spaced between eachother.
The crimps on my A1 are the same as yours so I doubt it's done by hand.
LOL I should really make these all in one comment but it's easier to type bit by bit. Yes, the knock on my A1 is off by a few degrees as well. I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it, the knock on my Pilot VP is always dead straight.
Thanks for all the info on comparing with your genuine VP. I was flying blind but just had a feeling those things would be taken care of properly on a Pilot version
@@Doodlebud DoodleBud noticed me! I feel honoured.
Funnily enough, the more I write with my A1 the more I appreciate my VP. The VP really just has better fit and finish but most importantly the nib and feed are better tuned. Whilst the EF on my A1 is smooth for an EF that's really all I can say that's good about it, it's quite dry and very stiff which just doesn't suit the way I hold my A1.
In comparison my VP has a fine 18k gold nib and it's a bit springy, quite responsive, smoother, significantly wetter but not a gusher so good for every day writing and it doesn't leak as much ink atop the nib and around the exterior of the feed.
Just got my clipless today and I am very pleased. My intention was to put my spare VP nib unit in it but it currently writes like a dream. Very smooth. I have 7 OG Pilot pens so I have no shame with this.
Great in-depth review as usual. I have this exact pen along with two Pilot VPs (one vintage). I used the Moonman for 4-5 month as an everyday writer and it never missed a beat until the Pilot blue-black cartridge went dry. Yes, Pilot cartridges fit and work in it. I’ve actually had more problems with my Pilot VPs drying out, especially the vintage one, which I think needs to have the trap door repaired. Moonman has the same wonky plunger on the nock as yours although a bit less noticeable. Anyone who cares about the appearance will find the Pilot units to be spectacular in comparison to the finish on the Moonman, but performance is really quite similar. PS, both Pilots have the gold nib unit.
Thanks for your hard work and diligence.
Glad you enjoyed my vid. How's your vintage VP holding up
Always love the engineering insights.
Good to know. The design & engineering always interest me with anything I use
Apparently the patent that Pilot had on the VP has expired which allows people to make exact copies like this. As mentioned in another comment, the VP internals fit perfectly in the A1 and same goes the other way. The backs can even be swapped although, they don't quite fit perfectly because of the difference in the ring.
A good quality copy of a "desirable pen" makes a great way to find out if you would actually like the VP, without dropping the price of a VP. It's also great for those who want a VP but can't afford one. That all said I completely agree, they should have done a bit more to make it look different, even if they kept the Pilot internals.
The patent may have expired but the copyright on the design is very probably still in effect. This is a combination of the Chinese culture of taking "Anything you can do, I can do better/cheaper/easier" and a backing from the central government to disregard international IP agreements. This is why the TWSBI fiasco was so weird to me. Clearly there was a Taiwan mainland China political thing here, but calling others in your market puddle names when you are knowingly both using public domain designs was bound to fail.
Either way, this is not just a 1:1 look-alike, they copied it down to the threading, you can actually mix not just the internal unit, even the back and front parts can be interchanged, so if you broke a section or a knock on your VP, the A1 can be used for spare parts. My only gripe is that it sprays ink inside like mad, Doug Rathbun had it too. I tried using different glues to slop the leakage and restore sanity, but it was no use. either the knocking-around inside when you click it is too much or the design it just bad. I ended up giving up on the original unit and getting an original VP, so I went all out and got it with a black nib and a B tip. problem is it seems to have the biggest baby buttcrack I have ever experienced in a pen, and I will fix that one myself. This has now cost me almost the price of an original complete VP...
@@Seefood73 Can't really copyright or trademark much about pen design, so once the patent expires as long as they don't use your name, and pass it off as a counterfeit, then there isn't much Pilot can do.
@@martinlebl631 can't copyright industrial design? I am pretty sure there are international treaties saying otherwise, or there would be copies of the Lamy 2000 and all other products all over the place.
@@martinlebl631 ok, I stand corrected, seems like it changes from country to country and may be much shorter lived than rights on music, books, pictures, etc. Learned something new today 😄
@@Seefood73 Trademarking industrial design is difficult, and fairly new protection, and not available everywhere. Lamy 2000 is difficult to copy due to the material used, that many others can't make in similar quality. Copyright is mostly for performance of an idea, be it writing, song, or movies. Used to be limited in time, but due to lobbying by the music industry and Disney has been extended many times. So it is now very long in time protection indeed. Used to be 20+ years that could be renewed and now life of author plus many years after. Still varies country to country, but much longer. Now patent protection is shortest. Copyright could easily run 100+ years. Trademarks are forever, unless diluted or abandoned, but much more limited in scope. Industrial design can be protected by patent, but that only last a short time, and if very distinctive, then by trademark, but that is very hard to achieve.
About the nib ink blotch.
I've heard from those who have the VPs mentioning it is also common among pilot pens.
This is second hand knowledge, I only have the A1.
Edit : I too have the ink blotch on my A1, it doesn't affect performance
The crimps of my VP unit are like that of the Majohn; they are spaced equally - like if you were to divide a pie in thirds - and none are 180 degrees from each other. One is closer to the step-down that the other two. I looked at all 4 of my VP units (EF, F, M and SU), and they are all like that.
I might get one to see if the VP nib unit fits in the notch before reassembling the pen, but I'm afraid of damaging the 18k nib. 🤔😱😨
Have both VP and A1. Love them both. Only thing I notice on the A1 is the paint on the clicker is wearing off. Other than that it works great and I sometimes put my Vo Gold Nib in the jet black A1. All converters and cartridges are interchangeable as well
I bought an A1 a while back to help decide if I liked the idea enough to buy a VP. I most certainly do. I really like the A1 and will probably get a clipless model. I purchased a VP just as you published this video. With this small sample size, so far the details you predicted in a pen from Pilot have been true: the spring is softer, the clicker doesn’t wiggle, etc. The Pilot nib is spectacular enough that I’ve wanted to use it to the exclusion of all other pens I have inked. This could explain why I haven’t had problems with the VP drying out. 😃 In the end, I’m happy to have tried the A1, and much happier that I ended up with a VP, as well. I’ll be happier getting more VPs than I will more A1s.
Legit VP is on the horizon for me after this pen for sure
I have one without the clip. Love it!
I purchased the clip less model and and am amazed by how smooth the EF nib is. My Pilot Vanishing Point currently has a medium nib which is juicy wet, very nice. The A1 was purchased so I could put my second Vanishing Point fine nib in it, but the A1 nib is so great I may not make the change very often.
The clicker button on the A1 is virtually the same as the original VP and the finish on my Orange model is very nice.
These are crazy good for the price!
Only had problems with my Vanishing point Crimson sunrise. The nib in that is awful does not take much use to get it somehow missaligned or bent. All my other pens are ok. All gold nibs Parker, platinum, Sailor.
On my Vanishing Point the nib assembly has to be in the notch. I wonder if the Pilot nib assembly would swap with this pen? Now I am curious…
I've read in the comments everything is swapable
I have one Pilot Capless, one Majohn A1 & two Majohn A2's... All of them are wonderful! (& I have another A1 & A2 en route) I have swapped the internals between all 3 of them with no issues (because I wanted the color of the installed cartridge to match the body of the pen) I WILL say that the Pilot & the A1 both open & retract super smoothly, but the A2 is not as smooth mechanically. All of them write beautifully & I as I often use multiple colors of ink for work, these are perfect. Portable, functional, & I still get my fountain pen fix! (I took my Pilot apart while watching this & the crimps are in the same place & staggered slightly in height as well)
Looks just like the real deal. I have the black matte original. I’ll have to get one and swap parts to see just how far they recreated it. Hoping at the least Pilot gets a kick back for IP license but highly doubtful.
The only kick -back pilot is getting is square in the 🍒
@@Doodlebud lol. Ain’t that the truth! Would this pen undergo the DBAG test?
I could do it but pretty sure it wouldn't hold up well nib down. Nib up, no problem
Hey bud…I am pretty sure Doug over at inkquiring minds has a VP that he would probably let you borrow to compare. I know he is closer in proximity to you. But if not, I’d be happy to send you one to borrow so you can do a side by side. Let me know DB. I can tell you, majohn/moonman knocked it out of the park with this copy. I have one as well as several VPs and the differences are minimal and you picked up on most of the differences without even handing a VP. Well done friend!
I have someone here locally who said I can borrow her VP for a comparison, but thanks for thinking of me buddy 👍
They make these with no clip too, very interesting as someone with two VPs might be cool to try one without a clip. Wonder if it weighs the same? The vp is a bit heavy, that's my only complaint really
That's progress. Never understood why Pilot didn't make a clipless version.
@@ichirofakename I think they want to make sure it is nib up in a shirt pocket, just in case of a leak.
@@martinlebl631 I think you’re right, and the clip is usable enough that it is the only pen I have ever clipped into my shirt pocket.
I'd love to try the A1, but I already have a vintage pen on the way from overseas and I want to enjoy it before I get another... but howdy do... I like the idea of a VP or a capless pen with a mechanism because it would be my EDC, more than likely.
Thanks for sharing and picking apart the mechanisms of this Moonman/Majohn! 🙂
Hope your vintage pens works out great!
Thanks for the review. I picked one up a couple months back for about $30 USD. I've noticed recently that the price is creeping up.
I used it as my daily driver for a while. No issues. Writes great. The only negative for me is nib size, it's too fine for my taste. I would like to see them offer medium and broad.
I have a Pilot Vanishing Point as well and I see the same issue with ink gathering near the nib with heavy use.
Overall, the Majohn A1 is a great pen.
I just got mine for $15!! What a deal!
yes in fact the spring is not quite as strong in a real vp, and the alignment nub on the nib/feed unit sits lower in that channel, even lower than where you speculated. (it sits so that the bottom half-circle is just out of view, if that makes any sense.)
i highly recommend the real vanishing point. i love mine so much, and the gold nib is much smoother and bouncier than the steel nib on the moonman.
oh and one more difference i noticed - the tip of the pen body tapers a bit more on the real vp, and the opening is smaller. i guess making a complete copy of the vp's mechanism was a little too hard to do cost-effectively without sizing it up just a little bit, or maybe assembly was a challenge at that size.
Ha! I was just asking you about the VP a couple weeks ago.
😉
11:54 I read the comments but I couldn't find the answer whether the Pilot Vanishing Point has well aligned crimps. Did you got any information about it?
Hi DB! Thanks again for this very interesting review. Personally, I will buy a genuine Pilot. However, I do see its need in the market.
Everything looks nearly identical to the VP. the only difference, as you stated, is that the VP nib unit goes all the way down into the slot before you screw the cap on.
Also, pretty certain my nib touches the trap door, definitely does on the way back at least. Wonder if there’s something wrong.
Does it touch on the A1 or on the VP?
I had a Pilot Decimo vanishing point. Expensive. I had 2 nibs, a stub and a medium. I. didn't like either so I sold it. I will try one of these Majong pens
Pretty damn close to the really deal. Just that spring is the only noticeable difference. Even the crimping is pretty much the same.
I got the moonman 10 days ago and it is interchangeable with the pilot pen and the moonman spring is stronger then the pilot pen
At 11:40 ish, are those crimps possibly following a screw thread?
It's possible, but bet the thread would be pretty shewy from running the backside of that crimp down it. Would have to be a fine pitch thread due to thin material wall, and that crimp running up & down it would probably be nice & grindy LOL. For some it's nails on a chalk board that sends them shivers. For me, it's bad threads 😣 If I close my eyes I can feel & hear the grinding
This pen is probably going to increase sales of the VP considering how many people are trying it out and liking it😅
That’s what I did. I now have three. 2 capless and one decimo
I got the pilot fountain pen and I don't think the spring is too strong but I didn't know there were cheap knockoffs till today so I come in here to check it out, it's pretty close to the real McCoy
I bought one from Amazon and am waiting it to arrive... I'll plan used it as my beater fountain pen instead of a Dlike brass one I got, I like the Dlike but the clicking mechanism makes the Pilot VP and this Majonh A1 quicl note takers wich is why I really need, it's a shame I couldn't get a smaller size design of this pen. Thanks for the video.
PS. I'm planning to brush the laker of the Majonh A1 yo give it a raw brass appearance like the Dlike, I hope I won't mess it up 😅🤞
Good luck with all brass look!
I just got my A1 today. And I noticed some differences between the VP and A1.
First is how smooth the clicking mechanism is on the VP. The A1 feels a bit rough when clicking it.
Second is what you mentioned about the feed part. The A1 has a strong spring that doesn’t let the nib unit to fall into the notch on the barrel.
Third is when I put in the cartridge that came with the A1, the cartridge is kinda leaning to one side. Unlike in VP where the cartridge will fit in the feed unit in a straight way.
Third is if you look at the trap door part of the pens, the VP has a more rounded opening while the A1 has a more angular opening.
I’m pretty sure I’ll find more differences the more I use the A1. But it won’t stop me from using the A1. In fact, I even bought another A1 because I love how it feels and writes for a fraction of the price of the VP.
Just getting into fountain pens and I'd love to see your take on Wood Fountain Pens' The Hemmingway pen!
Not familiar with that particular pen. So far I only have one wood pen: Faber Castell Ondoro in Smoked Oak.
Great pen. Great video
Sure enough on my VP the notch sits in the slot almost all the way down.
Would be very interesting to see you do a side by side comparison if and when you do get a proper Capless.
VP is on the list after this pen for sure
yup, the dents in the nib mech are the same one is lowered
I'm not a fan of companies copying designs, but at least with this one they did a good job. Really angers me when they copy but do a terrible job and cut a bunch of corners.
i ordered 2 of these a while back and one failed spectacularly and bled ink all over the place. the other one is a perfectly fine counterfeit vanishing point, just with a stiffer, steel nib.
Unless they marked it Pilot and not Moonman/Majohn it isn't counterfeit, just a copy.
@@martinlebl631 depends on the country - laws are different everywhere. the mechanism, the shape, and even just the idea can all be protected in some legal jurisdictions
@@Danny.._ Yes, that is a patent, but that expires. On purpose, to oromote competition. Patent law is essentially harmonized by treaties worldwide. Generic cigar pen shape hard to protect by copyright, as that isn't for objects, and only few countries have design trademarks, which are hard to get, so most fifty year old products, like vanishing point, don't have those. If they don't slap Pilot name, logo, or unique graphic, like the middle ring, on it, then they can pretty safely sell it just about anywhere.
I love the engineering perspective(s) that you put into your videos. You do a great job that is so much better than the boring unboxing and here's a scribble on some paper thing that so many others do.
I have a question, though,. You don't happen to own a PIlot Vanishing Point do you? ;)
Like I mentioned in the video, I don't currently own a Pilot VP. But that might change after getting this pen
Great detailed review.
Really wanna get one. A lot cheaper than the VP, plus really want a good note taker for school
Was at a 6hr work conference the other day. Took this pen, was perfect. I really get the appeal & utility of the VP. The real deal is obviously nicer, but for the price of this A1.... DAMN!
I understand you can swap the nib assembly with a Vanishing Point version.
If you go for the Vanishing Point, find an earlier model. It's lighter and especially the clip in further down the cap so it is not impeding your grip or fingers.
Thx for the tip
Got one, loved it. Then it started leaking. Even laying on its side. Tried different inks, didn’t work. Had to trash it.
Oh damn, definitely some kind of fault with yours by the sounds of it
Can we use pilot cartridge in jinhao retractable fountain pen?
Every time you said “I don’t have a VP”, I was asking “why on earth he hasn’t got one yet ?” !!
I guess making a flawless knockoff is also quite skillful !
I’m holding a Moonman X1, a knock-off of Montblanc Boheme retractable pen as I’m writing this comment !!!
A proper VP is on the list for sure now
I have the clipless version, and I love it! I didn't want the Pilot version because of the clip placement. It's just not comfortable for me. But this pen ... Wow! It's so well balanced. The nib is really smooth. I still can't figure out how they did it for $35. For those saying the design was stolen, I believe the patent on the Capless / VP / Decimo has expired. So there aren't any actual laws being broken, at least from what I understand.
It's such an amazing pen at this price point!
the way they did it for $35 is the same way pilot does it for $170
once youve got the design and manufacture for all the components worked out something like this doesnt cost all that much to make
pilots just hiking the price wayyyyy up
I heard the patent ran out on the vanishing point.
I hope moon man come out with a knock off of the pilot decimo
Perhaps they designed it for the tab to sit just outside of the notch to make it "legally distinct" from a Pilot. "See, it's not an EXACT copy!"
When you get the real vanishing point, could you also make a video about it? I've seen 100s of videos about that pen, and I'm still debating whether I should get one or not
Yup I'll make one for sure. But will watching 1 more video about the same pen make up your mind....? 🤔
@@Doodlebud Honestly, at this rate I'm going, it just might. I was happy 1 year ago with my 10 pens, now I'm on 30+ and counting .-.
@@Fershky98 Yes, ot sneaks up on you that way. Before you know it you will have a pen room a la chrisrap52.
I just got my second and third!
I have the PIlot Vanishing point Carbonesque with a medium nib and a spare Pilot italic nib. I just received the Majohn A1. The construction of the Majohn is acceptable but not as good as the pilot. The clicking action on the Majohn A1 has an unpleasant rub that is not smooth like the Pilot's click action. Aside from that, the bodies of both pens are very similar. However, the Pilot pen is noticeably tighter/more solid in construction. The Majohn A1 nib works but is a disappointment compared to the Pilot nib. It feels scratchy in certain angles and the flow of ink is dry. I have other Moonman pens, with the standard number 6 type nib, and they have been all okay. I am surprised at how poorly this A1 nib performs. I put my extra Pilot nib into the Majohn A1 body and it fits very nicely and works fine. The Pilot nibs are superior in every way but they do cost many times more. I will not be using the Majohn A1 nib.
Guess your A1 nib is a bit of an outlier and I've heard really good response about the nibs. But yeah, build on a VP should be much better, hence the price tag. But all in all, pretty damn good pen for the $35CAD I spent.
I respect these people/company to produce them as they gives some less fortunate or cannot afford peeps a chance to tryout the product whatever it may be.
So I call these "copy" instead of disrespecting or insulting words like knockoff or fake. (I love copy products/items, i search for them first instead of the first/original one)
if the product is good in this case Pilot is extremely good with awesome quality control then people will eventually buy it after trying a copy.
I also do not believe in "support your local business" mindset, I support only those who are friendly to my wallet plus law of diminishing returns wisdom.
Thank you for linking that video about the background of Chinese imitation culture. I understand this better now. Also thanks for the detailed video. However I still think that these products don't deserve to get more publicity. I think that we should be more and more conscious about our purchasing decisions and what are the business activities we support by those purchases. I find it very frustrating that many people are motivated by price only and disregard how those products are made -- e.g. terrible worker conditions, disregards for environmental issues, or in this case undercutting competition by mitigating development and marketing costs via a blatant IP theft. Moonman has some decent low budget models that are original (AFAIK) like the M2. They should get publicity for that and not for their knock off models.
Hey DB I have a question for you unrelated to this specific video, but still pen related, if you don’t mind. I want to buy some plain B nibs and try to do some of my own grinding but I can’t really afford proper grinding stones. Do you think one could use, at least to start out, grinding different nibs with regular micro mesh pads? And if so how high should I go with the grit when purchasing to be able to do it all properly
The lower grit pads will wear out quickly. The low cost setup would be some coarse grit wet sandpaper (220, 600, 1000, 2000) then a few micromesh pads (4000, 8000, 12000). Put the sandpaper on some type of flat surface (wood block, tile, glass). Grind the geometry with the sandpaper then finish & smooth on the micromesh. You can pick up a 400/1000 combo stone pretty cheap from amazon, then just use micromesh pads to finish it off as well. And as a bonus you can use the same stone to sharpen your knives if you want to learn as well. The stone goes for about $11 on Amazon
@@Doodlebud oh wow. When I was looking into them a couple months ago I could have sworn the stones were more expensive. I will have to look into that more. Thanks so much man!
Just ordered one I think I will pick up a Vp here soon
What do you think of the Lm focus 3?
Don't want to pick one up as it's a flat out forgery. They use the Lamy name/logo. I understand designs re copied, but forgeries I'm not too cool with
Will pilot vanishing point nib unit fit in this pen?
Several viewers have commented everything is swapable
I've heard the Pilot copyright has expired, so copying is OK. Public domain is there for all, companies included. What would be bad is if they were claiming to be Pilot, which they aren't. Funny, you don't hear people complain about books in the public domain being copied, or medicine being much cheaper because it's in the public domain. Disney has made LOADS of money using stories from the public domain.
From an engineer's perspective it's more about the lack of creativity. Creative thinking is the path that someone bypasses when they copy. So nothing new is created in that process. Now if someone takes an existing idea and improves it a little bit, that's great! That took creativity & now there's a new contribution to the overall knowledge base. Now the argument can be made that copying something and reducing the overall quality, but intern being able to lower the price and make something more accessible to everybody is a good thing. I don't have a problem with that. That thinking is all around us all the time and we all benefit. That's why I gave this particular pen good remarks because they actually did a very good job. Only 1 minor change I would suggest and its just a simple spring swap out. They copied, made it cheaper, but with great execution. So at the end of the day, if you're not going to be the one innovating, at least give it your best effort in your copies and don't cut corners. Do it the best you can for that new lower price point. You will have to compromise on material selections, but instead optimize on cost savings in creative manufacturing & assembly techniques. That I respect big time! Being cheap & clever I respect. Being cheap & shitty, no respect 🤓
@@Doodlebud >Being cheap & shitty, no respect
Have to agree with that!
>it's more about the lack of creativity.
OK. Creativity and improvements are certainly nice. And I think greatly reduced prices is nice as well, which you also noted. However, in these such discussions, I often see people being strongly opposed to the "copies" and often using language that is both incorrect and intended to be highly negative. You didn't do that. Stuff being in the public domain is highly beneficial to the public for a variety of reason.
As for myself, as a side gig I've made over $50,000 the last several years selling some products which were derived from things in the public domain, and yes, which I improved. Not pens. :)
@@erad67 Yup, all it takes is someone to build on an existing idea to come up with a new application, process, product, efficiency, etc. We all benefit from that and that person made a contribution to the greater good which can multiply into more good. 👍👍 We're told not to copy in school so we most immediately conflate the two concepts of "copying." The copying in learning is bad because nobody wins. Copying in creativity & innovation is good because it's like evolution. Each new concept is built upon the knowledge base of the last, therefore expanding the knowledge base. Win win
If they'd made a model with a Medium nib, I'd already own it!
My experience is another. The pen nib is leaking, The ink goes all over the nib, if you start to write, first came out a big point of ink. The nib doesn't write well, it is very scratchy, even when I tried to work on it. By the way, if the hole front section is full of ink, how can you clean it? Because the door doesn't open. So my Majohn A1 pen ist a big disappointment! I have contaced the seller, they only said, sorry we can't solve the problems!, that ist ridiculous. Best greetings from Austria.
Oh wow, sounds like you got a bit of a defective pen. If it was Pilot, they would take care of it for you, but that is the tradeoff with these pens. The service is essentially zero. I've gotten 2 of them now and they have both been amazing. Guess its just luck of the draw sometimes
I'm fine with copying mechanisms after a while(the vanishing point is way past being patentable), but I just find it lazy to outright copy a visual design. It's just so boring and uncreative. Even if you're copying it to make an affordable version for a different market for example, you can still come up with something new and interesting looking.
All I got out of this is was … watch how many times I can click this thing.
I own a Capless and an A1, and with a sample size of 1 the A1 actually works better. The action isn't as smooth but it writes much more reliably. If I don't use the Pilot for a week it won't start without wetting the nib; the A1 has always started up right away.
Personally I don't care that they copied the mechanism. What bothers me a bit is that Moonman just copied everything. If they had offered it I'd much rather have a unique design by them withh the same mechanism.
Why capless is drying out? is the ink ok? is it used pen or sth?. Moonman has good designs like T1
Just a thought… the clip less version that Moonman offers is definitely a design difference. I really like the clip less A1, and nothing like that is offered by Pilot.
Hello. Its would be my first time buying a pen on this style so I was hoping you could help me. I could by this from Etsy with 45€ and get it in almost 3 weeks or I could give 15€ more and buy a Platinum Curidas and get it in 2 days. Whats ur thoughts. I really hope u see this. Thank u
I wouldn't make how long you have to wait the deciding factor for a pen. Some ofy favorite pens took me several years to acquire. Those pens look & fit in the hand very different. Watch reviews on both and decide from that, not wait time
Are you related to AvE of Boltr fame? Can you say skookum?
The clicker on my VPs are all dead solid
So want to get a real one now
@@Doodlebud They're kinda small, the ink capacity borders on anemic yet somehow they're addictive! Consider yourself warned 🙂
I’m tempted to snag what is essentially a $35 VP, but I really hate how these Chinese companies essentially steal designs, so I really don’t want to support them.
Thanks for the review!!
Makes no difference, as they make these for the Chinese market. The export market is just too small to influence this, whereas in their domestic market the copies are in demand.
@@martinlebl631 great point. The profit they make from me is small; the Chinese market for those will give them all the profit they want. All the same. I struggle to support it on a matter of principle.
Though, I wonder if Chinese folks can even buy a legitimate Pilot VP and if this is the only option they have. If so, who am I to judge they who are oppressed in China for wanting to buy a cool product? It’s a surprisingly complex issue?
@@johnnymontalvo5620 Most things usually are. I am sure that for many actual Pilot is out of their price range forever, even if it is available.
I see optics..
It's the best book to have on hand. Covers such a wide range of topics
I only see the Vanishing points for over 200 euros and that isn't even with a gold nib.
wow really could fool anyone
👍
👍
What! No one wants to copy the Platinum Curidas??? 😁
Oh there is, and it's bad. Go to about the 18 min mark and you'll see:
ruclips.net/video/K3UFGJq8LHM/видео.html
@@Doodlebud Ugh! That was nasty! Have never seen a fountain pen do that! You had the Blob coming out of that pen.
I would buy a real VP but… I’m too poor