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I don't agree with using 6-8 on isolation. In my experience this rep range is gold for most compound lifts, since it's easier to approach failure and less fatiguing. But as you said, it puts more stress on the joints when used in isolations, so imo the volume changes and caution you have to have is not worth it. In general, i like to do 6-8 for most of my compounds (e.g. dips, squats), 8-10 to some compounds (e.g. leg press, rows) and anywhere between 8-15 for isolation.
what do you mean "stress on the joints" im doing heavy isolations now and its fine. maybe you need more collagen or a form check or something if you mean painful. heavy squats puts "stress on the joints" too in your knees and hips. heavy dips stress the shoulders and sternum. im pretty sure lifting weights in general puts "stress on the joints"
@@burritodog3634 A good example would be leg extensions. Set of 5 probably aren't going to feel very good and aren't a good idea. Much better to load those in a higher rep range.
I always went for 6-8, compunds and isolations, which has always worked great for me so far - as a beginner doing 40kg (88 lbs) bench press until now doing 110kg (240 lbs). The only exceptions are dips and lateral raises for some reason, because using more weights feels kinda bad on the joints.
I like 6-15 depending on the exercise. For heavy movements like squat, bench it's best to stay in 6-10. For isolations 10-15 is good depending on the muscle group.
I first learned of the 4-6 and 6-8 rep range from Mike Matthew’s book Bigger Leaner Stronger. Been using 6-8 for most of my workouts except for Dumbell lateral raises😢
Great video. I find it much easier to get psyched up and really give it 100% for 7 reps than 10 plus. The latter on something like weighted pull ups just fills me with dread
For me it’s not even dread, it’s just a waste of time really. Why do 12 reps if you get the same exact growth stimulus and more overall strength output with 7?
T@@REVIVALFitness True. It was a great video because it made me realise that subconsciously as the hypertrophy range is 6 to 30 I've been thinking well 6 is right at the bottom of that range so not that great. Which when you think about it logically as you laid out is ridiculous! I think even as low as 4 reps if done slowly is going to be pretty effective. I mean its not like 5 reps - no hypertrophy and then you do one extra rep and suddenly hypertrophy. You might shoot for 6 or 7 reps for your first rep but fail on the 5th but that's still probably a good set.
As a older man in his 50’s and who trains off and on these days lol I’ve got to fully agree with you, I always back in the day trained 6 to 8 reps only but over the years you start getting sucked into the you must do more reps and stupidly over the years adjusted my rep ranges but in all honesty and from many many years of training I can truly say I was at my biggest when doing 6 to 8 anything 10+ in my opinion just makes no difference to 6 to 8 rather than waste time
I like to cycle every month or two through 15 - 20 reps, 7 - 10 reps, 2 - 5 reps. Last reps performed each set always at or close to failure. Keeps things more interesting. Each rep range requires a different mindset, works the muscles differently, and helps spur on slightly different adaptations.
I've always been a believer in varying rep ranges. I think you have to build your strength and skill across the spectrum of light and heavy. But the lighter stuff, set of 10-25, say, is in a way more important because that's where you're gonna build most your muscle, which is more permanent and has more uses than neurological strength adaptation on its own. So building the base in the higher reps for the most part, then towards the end of a bulk, you go heavier to peak and get more out of your now much bigger muscles.
@@TheBcoolGuy Because heavy reps make you recruit most of your muscle fibers immediately and there is little contribution of fatigue resistance adaptations which have nothing to do with muscle size or strength. And usually doing high reps will cause burning sensations due to accumulation of metabolites and/or high cardiovascular effect (especially on leg exercises). Both of these will decrease your ability to recruit muscle fibers. And to make a muscle fiber grow, it must be activated. So there is really no other sensible way than low to moderate reps. Also, high reps mean more calcium ion accumulation into the cells (calcium makes the contraction happen) and that will cause more muscle damage, affecting your future workouts negatively. So, what do you think makes high reps better for muscle growth?
Great video, I think the main thing with low reps is getting hurt on single joint exercises. Also, with calves people will often say they are so slow twitch that low reps don't make sense...That being said I done 6-8 rep range on preacher curls, tricep machines, but I'm pretty careful about not overdoing it till something pops. Doing say a 3 rep set for biceps doesn't seem to make too much sense because the set will be over before you may even connect with the exercise.
I agree with doing 6-8 sometimes and still being able to progress. I've been doing this with bicep curls, started with 35x8, now doing 52's x 8 with good form. And making more progress than the entire last year
I do Dynamic Double Progression, so as soon as I reach 12 reps the weight will go up to the 6 reps in the next session for that set, this way I went to 22Kg from 17Kg in 2 months, while for the same amount of weight increase took me over a year before with a standard "do everything the same and only sweat in last set" approach
I was a 10-12 rep andy for over a decade until I switched to 8-10 recently for my heavier lifts with the aim to reduce time in the gym. The strength gains accelerated, and very noticeable muscles growth that came along with the new strength. However I find that certain isolation movements still benefit better in the 10-12 range.
you worked out for 10 years following a bodybuilder rep range then you removed a few reps and started making gains ???? maybe in strength but size ??? I call BS .... a lie doesn't care who tells it
This is why warming up properly and doing my heaviest working set first is very important to me. You can get the most out of higher reps in the sets after you already started off with your highest degree of intensity, but I feel like you can’t replicate it the other way around. I’d rather get 6-8 reps of a lighter weight to failure after stimulating the muscle with higher weight as opposed to starting off with that same lighter weight and getting 12-15 half-ass reps.
I usually do 5-8 for main lifts (Dead, Bench, Squat, OHP), 8-12 for accessories (Rows, Pull ups, Dips), and 12-15 for pump work (Curls, Pushdowns, Flies, Lateral Raises)
At age 40, after 8 reps, the muscle group has more in the tank, but I am out of breath. Maybe age isn't even the main factor, but it seems more pronounced now. The only times I have injured myself have been low weight with 15-20 reps, years ago.
For me I've realized it's just basically proximity to failure and getting effective reps. It's not so much the amount of reps your set is, moreso the amount of effective reps and proximity to failure. At this point I vary my rep ranges on most exercises, one week I might do 6 to 8, one I might do 12 to 15, or even 3 to 5. The movement and program is the same just the rep ranges vary from week to week.
@chilldoc9638 actually its the opposite. You get much more fatigue when you are pushing extremely heavy weight for low reps compared to when you lift moderate weight for higher reps.
I usually do 6-10 reps to failure for upper body exercises except for my incline presses and Yates rows where my rep range is 4-8 reps to failure. With lower body, I do a compound lower body exercise with 4-15 reps to failure and there are a couple other lower body exercises I do 8-20 reps to failure on. Legs respond well in my experience with a bit higher reps.
Lol i used to have a gentleman in my comments exclaim that i am on gear because im big AND train with sets of 10-20, which is apparently a sign of gear use
I usually do 4-6 reps for compound lifts(like bench, squat, deadlift), 8-12 reps for DB bench, and 20-30 repa for isolation exercises like curls for pump work. I remember when you said to get stronger at different rep ranges and so far your advice still helps.
Very much depends on the exercise and individual. For small range of motion exercises like shrugs and calf raises I prefer 8-15. For tricep extensions and lateral raises I prefer higher reps to save my joints. Most exercises I prefer 6-8 reps though
@@multishit6664 Weird because with high reps theres more blood pumping making ur body warm for example elbows if they're warm ur not gonna feel pain at all
@Mantastic-ho3vm Doing enough volume with 1-4 reps in reserve causes more fatigue since your muscles are active for a longer period of time. The effective reps model by Chris Beardsley is the most accurate.
I've always disliked high rep ranges due to the first reps being unchallenging and seemingly a waste of time. Big, main movements I keep in the 5-8 rep range (unless I can get more of course, the goal should always be to surpass this range with proper technique) and secondary and isolation movements I aim for 8-10, sometimes 10-12 like with face pulls. The big downside I've noticed to the low rep range approach seems to be high systemic fatigue. I figure the only way to deal with this for some guys is a deload but deload workouts just don't feel very good. I've heard of guys taking full weeks off when they experienced this and gaining muscle and strength during this time but skipping the gym for even just one week sounds unbearable for a lot of dudes, let's be honest lol.
When you’re body stops training for a week you’re muscles become under stimulated again so when you do train them again they are more responsive too training; moreover if you train 6 weeks straight with no prolonged break you’re muscles become accustomed too the stimulus so gains slow down, take a couple days or a week of and then come back also you’re mtor increases after you stop training
Rep range really doesn’t matter for building muscle cause as long as your training close to failure or to failure it’s not gonna matter what rep range you use. Now I will say that less reps with more heavy weight will definitely transfer to greater strength gains because strength is a skill but either way that builds muscle too.
@@yoeyyoey8937 Skill by definition means the ability to do something well or train to do a particular task. Therefore building strength overtime is a skill. But it is also an adaptation. It’s both. That’s why if you miss the gym for a couple of weeks you notice that you lose strength, on certain lifts cause those certain lifts require skill to get strong at. Of course you don’t lose muscle. This is also why people who lift heavy all the time are stronger than the guys who lift moderate or light weights because they are practicing the skill of strength. This is a method practiced by powerlifters and strong man.
Rep range is quite literally everything.. you could train ludicrous reps close to failure and go nowhere for years or actually use your brain and lift effectively near your max without fatigue..but overloading and progress until your genetics say fuck you.
I am not completely sold on effective rep theory; I still think tonnage/overall workload has a part to play. Louis Simmons liked his 20 rep db bench presses for a reason. I think it is worth doing 6-8 on most compounds from time-to-time...but are you really lifting much more weight than for 10 reps. In many cases...not really. In practice imo you're going to be doing a lot of rpe 6/7 sets, especially if you like free weights. And I can't see how shaving max 30s off a set will compensate for 1-2m extra rest between sets - doesn't add up. Changing things up usually works for a while though.
I mean I do agree that the reps between 5 and 2 of failure are probably more 'hypertrophic'. But basically ERT states that nobody got big doing 531 BBB. Which is silly.
Is 10-12 reps bad? I work out like 45 min to an hour, mostly do compound exercises, 4-5 times a week with some isolation exercises and cardio exercises.
For the average person I recommend 8-12 minimum to failure. Fewer injuries, easier on connective tissue, and you'll get plenty of hypertrophy. I would exclude deadlifts and squats from this equation.
it's funny cause for the past month or so I've been considering switching up my training and instead of doing heavy hip thrusts for 12 reps that I've been doing for 7 months, to trying out the 8-10 rep range. and I started thinking about it again today with it being leg day, and then this video pops up on my recommended lol I just feel like it's a sign for what I already wanted to start doing
You could do them for 5-6 reps. What matters is reaching the intensity threshold but low reps ultimately save time and are more effective on a per-rep basis.
@@REVIVALFitness yeah that’s definitely a good point that reps will be more effective lower for sure. i lift heavy regardless cause i like to put in work by any means even if i gotta stop at rep 9 and go back in and finish the rest of my reps 😂. i also just like higher volume in general just cause i know i’ll burn a lil more calories and it’s been working for me for sure, so i feel like somewhere in the middle would be perfect for me and would still give me the opportunity to try something new
Even though I love calisthenics way more than weight training, I never let myself do that 15+ rep BS. I’ve been adding weight to my calisthenics compounds since the 3rd year of training (you might think that’s a bit late, but keep in mind I started calisthenics at 163 kg and I’m also 6 ft 9 so yeah I was doing incline rows/push ups and foot assisted pull ups/dips for a long time before I was even able to master those basics). Once I was able to do 6-8 slow and controlled reps of a particular angle/progression, I reduced leverage, reduced assistance, or added weight. That high rep zero time under tension calisthenics BS is so annoying… they the ones that make everyone think calisthenics is easy and for beginners and you can’t get big with it.
Totally agree a lot of those people make flutter kicks a staple in their training and that’s what people think callisthenics is push-ups to mountain climbers to 500 bodyweight squats 10 second rest and go back in and while your resting do flutter kicks😂😂
I usually just aim for 8-10 reps then use a weight I know I can’t hit for 10 reps but push out as many as I can to get at least 6-8 reps out of and build upon that
15 reps and above for me on bench is cardio meaning I have to count and watch when I inhale and exhale and I have to breathe with each rep, not over several reps. Exhaustion appears to be oxygen intake limited.
To essentially “taze” and keep sore until the next workout, 2 sets of the chest fly will put me on the floor if the sets are between 12-18 reps. If I do 6-8 reps, it would take me 8 sets. I know because I’ve tried it. Why are lifters scared of critical thinking.
@@huglug9195 then I’m guessing you haven’t lifted a whole lot of weights, because if you ignore it and keep going you can get rhabdo and literally die. It’s very indicative and relevant
@@soonahero ok??? The point is, hypertrophy is stimulated by the last 5-6 reps in a set(the ones where there is involuntary rep speed slowdown during the concentric). We know this. Those first 10 reps may make you feel sore, or tired, but that doesn't mean they triggered a hypertrophic response. How trashed you feel after a set is not a reliable metric for placing one style of training above another. You can do 100 reps of cable curls, and it will probably put you on a floor, but if you skip those last 5 reps that get you to failure, that set will not produce muscle growth. On the other hand, you can do a heavy, 6 rep set of cable curls taken to absolute failure, and you'll probably feel fine after, even though that set produced a more significant amount of muscle growth. There are plenty of examples of types of exercise that "put you on the floor" but produce negligible levels of hypertrophy.
In all the studies that I'm aware of , in which the try to see the hypertrophy rep range they usually have two groups . Group A does 3 sets 10 reps and group B does 10 sets 3 reps and the find equal hypertrophy, and also group B had more strength gains and stayed in the gym for hours. Just do whatever works for you. Some respond better to high reps and low volume some don't .
Time/duration of workouts and level of muscular endurance based upon anaerobic fitness, is arguably the reason for keeping rep ranges lower, assuming one has access to all the equipment they need for their individual strength range. Mostly people have neither the time, nor the inclination to spend 3-4 hours in the gym (or even 2 hours) X number of times per week. But few iso exercises work optimally in lower rep ranges, so the lower rep ranges mostly apply to compound and bigger lifts.
I’m in my 50s and started training in the 5-8 range and now my joints feel better. Yes you need to train with heavier weights compared to 10-15 reps but honestly it’s not that much heavier.
The biggest problem with YT fitness is they want you to live in the gym, confuse you and charge you for programming. Tailored programs with sets and reps is a scam. Just eat in a surplus and train how you like. Do the cut later.
So for better hypertrophy 6-8 or 8-10 reps? I mean isn't the progression in reps and load better when working in the 8-10 reps because it's a bit less taxing on the nervous system and from recovery standpoint in general?
You could also argue that when doing 12 reps, the first 8 ( using your example) does do something, it fatigues more of the muscle fibres meaning that when you are doing the last reps, you are having to use them all. The other thing is rep ranges are person specific, that's why the science says 5-20, as some respond better to lower, some respond better to higher. The logical reason is due to peoples muscle fibre composition. The key is to try it for a month/meso then adjust based off how you feel.
6-8 is time under tension. You don't get much muscle strain time at 1-2 reps. Those reps are to try a new max or bench a bit at max. Longer is cardio, and deals with breathing more than lifting.
I like 5-8 on the Big 3 (and weighted pull-ups) particularly for the Beginner/Intermediate levels, and I 10-15 on isolation work and most other things. Once you hit a certain level of strength on the big 3, you will probably benefit from going higher volume on those too. I like to keep deadlifts as a 5x1 exercise otherwise I believe your waist can get thicker, and I don’t want that in Men’s Physique. If you don’t want bigger legs for similar reasons, keeping your squat at 5 reps or less can be good too - strong legs without necessarily getting bigger.
I mostly train in the 8-12 rep range but 3 weeks ago I started training with low loads and higher reps (up to 25) rpe 7 on isolation movements, for compounds I'm leaving 2-4 rir. The reason for this change is because I've accumulated systemic fatigue and joint discomfort during the previous couple of months, also stress not related to workout. I might be training like this for another month, my joints are feeling better, I feel less tired to the point that I don't even take naps anymore. I also feel like I really want to lift heavy, so motivation is going up a lot. I totally recommend higher reps for instances like this.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but it is discouraged to hit your muscles every day, like hitting chest 6 days per week etc. But you have men with labor professions like farmers, lumberjacks, etc that lift heavy things for hours 5-7 days per week and are jacked. Can you help me understand? Am I missing something?
You shouldn’t be hitting a muscle every single day unless you have to for work. Common work-involved muscles like the forearms, calves, abs, and traps are more resilient to this due to muscle fiber types. Much of manual labor is isometric holds, meaning they are carrying things or assuming one position for extended periods. This is not the same as performing an eccentric and concentric stretch/contraction. A full muscle contraction (eg a bench press) needs more recovery time than carrying tools or swinging an axe.
If you don't already, you should follow Chris Beardsley. He's a dense science content guy that recommends your advocated training range. A bit lower actually (5-7 reps) with a Hepburn style progression.
I always felt like the term hypertrophy is so useless and overly broad. It makes more sense to work with a set and rep range that is constant and just progressive overload the weight amount. I get there are many ways to lift, but the whole hypertrophy obsession seems to keep lifters, especially novices and beginners, stuck spinning their wheels instead of just focusing on building a size and strength base. I only really apply higher rep ranges and a more hypertrophy approach to isolated movements, but heavy compounds seem to be done better with high intensity, low volume imo. Also, the word in itself is lame - small and weak science dorks use it to excuse themselves from working hard and putting more weight on the bar.
If all the reps before failure are junk reps and don't count, then why is it 6 to 20, 6 to 8 or whatever.. why not just 1 rep at full max all the time.. that should make shorter gym time and max gains...well according that all the other reps mean nothing.
Used to do calisthenics back in the pre gym days and made gains from sets of 30+ reps of push ups and 20+ reps of pull ups and dips. The best chest gains in my life came at that time from just doing tons of push ups with tons of sets and reps, to the point its too big and train it only once a week now.
5 reps still builds a ton of muscle, I'd argue even 4 reps can. Just 1-2 won't do anything substantial and 3 is flexibly not much size gains or sometimes does continue to size
the only one thing i probably disagree on is the isolation work like bicep curls especially and others should be more moderate to high reps to minimise injury risk
Some isolation movements just tend to not feel so great when loaded too heavily. But yeah if you’re really controlling the weight I think the rep range can be lowered
It important to understand that this is not what the current data shows us, this is just this guy’s opinion on training. In reality there only a few things that actually matter, and not necessarily in this order, they are. 1, effort 2, consistency 3, diet 4, rest and recovery You can do anything from 1-40 reps and build a massive strong physique. I think the most important things are consistency and the effort YOU bring to the gym! You can can have a shit diet and still make gains, you can have a terrible sleep schedule and still make gains, but if you can’t consistently bring more effort than last time you will not progress.
Use a reasonable rep range for each exercise, get stronger in said rep range maintaining good form. (Don’t do triples on curls or 14 rep deadlifts) No magic bullet here
@The Jerk Show don't see how it wouldn't work, calves are like any other muscle in the sense that they need to be progressively overloaded and loaded decently heavy enough to be efficiently taken to failure, it's not just feel the burn fluff and pump
I saw a big strength gains with 5sets/5reps, But I saw a bigger size games with 4sets/8reps. I’m natural and if you want to gain size as a natural, you’re gonna have to do at least eight reps
Totally clicked on this cause the title triggered me! TBH I pick weights where I fail each set around 8 and grind on with cheat reps or whatever to hit my 10 reps. So I actually agree higher weights and failing around 6 to 8 will improve strength and offer the same hypertrophy so long as you don't end up cutting your time under tension down.
📈10-20 Sets Per Muscle Group Per Week ... NOPE! ruclips.net/video/mplWFUZYF1A/видео.html
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6-8 reps? Jesus revival, we’re not training for a marathon here. -rippetoe probably
I ran a fahve k
I got bigger on 3*5 😮
Nah bro. 0-1 reps ego lifting with lots a cheating is ideal.
@@REVIVALFitness don't forget hip drahve.
He does recommend 8-10 for assistance lifts in the book
I don't agree with using 6-8 on isolation. In my experience this rep range is gold for most compound lifts, since it's easier to approach failure and less fatiguing. But as you said, it puts more stress on the joints when used in isolations, so imo the volume changes and caution you have to have is not worth it. In general, i like to do 6-8 for most of my compounds (e.g. dips, squats), 8-10 to some compounds (e.g. leg press, rows) and anywhere between 8-15 for isolation.
I agree, going too heavy with single joint stuff just tends to not feel so good on the joints
what do you mean "stress on the joints" im doing heavy isolations now and its fine. maybe you need more collagen or a form check or something if you mean painful. heavy squats puts "stress on the joints" too in your knees and hips. heavy dips stress the shoulders and sternum. im pretty sure lifting weights in general puts "stress on the joints"
@@burritodog3634 Big weight many joint good
Big weight single joint bad
@@burritodog3634 A good example would be leg extensions. Set of 5 probably aren't going to feel very good and aren't a good idea. Much better to load those in a higher rep range.
actually triceps and biceps work better on low reps since are very explosive muscles
Yapping into the camera while driving with no seatbelt on 🎉
He the reall Daredevil
I always went for 6-8, compunds and isolations, which has always worked great for me so far - as a beginner doing 40kg (88 lbs) bench press until now doing 110kg (240 lbs). The only exceptions are dips and lateral raises for some reason, because using more weights feels kinda bad on the joints.
Wow😮 how long it took you to reach 110kg
@@CarlosDiazAustralia About a year of constant grinding! It started to slow down now, though.
@@korovband Amazing progress!! Thanks for your reply🙋♂️
Did you get ripped or just stronger?
thank you for converting to pounds
15 reps I get absolutely huge, I will never stop this rep range as I respond so well
I like 6-15 depending on the exercise. For heavy movements like squat, bench it's best to stay in 6-10. For isolations 10-15 is good depending on the muscle group.
I first learned of the 4-6 and 6-8 rep range from Mike Matthew’s book Bigger Leaner Stronger. Been using 6-8 for most of my workouts except for Dumbell lateral raises😢
Great video. I find it much easier to get psyched up and really give it 100% for 7 reps than 10 plus. The latter on something like weighted pull ups just fills me with dread
For me it’s not even dread, it’s just a waste of time really. Why do 12 reps if you get the same exact growth stimulus and more overall strength output with 7?
T@@REVIVALFitness True. It was a great video because it made me realise that subconsciously as the hypertrophy range is 6 to 30 I've been thinking well 6 is right at the bottom of that range so not that great. Which when you think about it logically as you laid out is ridiculous! I think even as low as 4 reps if done slowly is going to be pretty effective. I mean its not like 5 reps - no hypertrophy and then you do one extra rep and suddenly hypertrophy. You might shoot for 6 or 7 reps for your first rep but fail on the 5th but that's still probably a good set.
As a older man in his 50’s and who trains off and on these days lol I’ve got to fully agree with you, I always back in the day trained 6 to 8 reps only but over the years you start getting sucked into the you must do more reps and stupidly over the years adjusted my rep ranges but in all honesty and from many many years of training I can truly say I was at my biggest when doing 6 to 8 anything 10+ in my opinion just makes no difference to 6 to 8 rather than waste time
Hate to be that guy but you can get big from 8 sets of 2 and 6 sets of 4, and 10x3 and 3x6-8!
Not everything is 8-12 for "hypertrophy only"
💪🏼✅
Literally started doing 5-8 reps for my main work 2 weeks ago and this video comes out, I'm doing sum right
Did you stick with it?
@@yqafree Yes, I rarely do above 10 reps nowadays, 8-12 only on rear delt flys, lateral raise, calf raise, chest flys etc..
I like to cycle every month or two through 15 - 20 reps, 7 - 10 reps, 2 - 5 reps. Last reps performed each set always at or close to failure.
Keeps things more interesting. Each rep range requires a different mindset, works the muscles differently, and helps spur on slightly different adaptations.
I've always been a believer in varying rep ranges. I think you have to build your strength and skill across the spectrum of light and heavy. But the lighter stuff, set of 10-25, say, is in a way more important because that's where you're gonna build most your muscle, which is more permanent and has more uses than neurological strength adaptation on its own. So building the base in the higher reps for the most part, then towards the end of a bulk, you go heavier to peak and get more out of your now much bigger muscles.
No
@@TheBcoolGuy explain to me physiologically how sets of 10-25 reps build most of your muscle? Because I'd argue sets of 4-8 build the most muscle.
@@ernoeskeli1139 Nice counterargument, but explain to me how it is true, because I find that I am always right. How do you explain that?
@@TheBcoolGuy Because heavy reps make you recruit most of your muscle fibers immediately and there is little contribution of fatigue resistance adaptations which have nothing to do with muscle size or strength.
And usually doing high reps will cause burning sensations due to accumulation of metabolites and/or high cardiovascular effect (especially on leg exercises). Both of these will decrease your ability to recruit muscle fibers. And to make a muscle fiber grow, it must be activated. So there is really no other sensible way than low to moderate reps.
Also, high reps mean more calcium ion accumulation into the cells (calcium makes the contraction happen) and that will cause more muscle damage, affecting your future workouts negatively.
So, what do you think makes high reps better for muscle growth?
Great video,
I think the main thing with low reps is getting hurt on single joint exercises. Also, with calves people will often say they are so slow twitch that low reps don't make sense...That being said I done 6-8 rep range on preacher curls, tricep machines, but I'm pretty careful about not overdoing it till something pops. Doing say a 3 rep set for biceps doesn't seem to make too much sense because the set will be over before you may even connect with the exercise.
I agree with doing 6-8 sometimes and still being able to progress. I've been doing this with bicep curls, started with 35x8, now doing 52's x 8 with good form. And making more progress than the entire last year
I do Dynamic Double Progression, so as soon as I reach 12 reps the weight will go up to the 6 reps in the next session for that set, this way I went to 22Kg from 17Kg in 2 months, while for the same amount of weight increase took me over a year before with a standard "do everything the same and only sweat in last set" approach
I was a 10-12 rep andy for over a decade until I switched to 8-10 recently for my heavier lifts with the aim to reduce time in the gym. The strength gains accelerated, and very noticeable muscles growth that came along with the new strength. However I find that certain isolation movements still benefit better in the 10-12 range.
would you mind sharing an example please
@@InitialDTMexample of what
I think he meant an example of isolation movements that benefit from 10-12@@chilldoc9638
all you did is a range you wernt use to and grew. If you did the reverse you would get the same results
you worked out for 10 years following a bodybuilder rep range then you removed a few reps and started making gains ???? maybe in strength but size ??? I call BS .... a lie doesn't care who tells it
This is why warming up properly and doing my heaviest working set first is very important to me. You can get the most out of higher reps in the sets after you already started off with your highest degree of intensity, but I feel like you can’t replicate it the other way around. I’d rather get 6-8 reps of a lighter weight to failure after stimulating the muscle with higher weight as opposed to starting off with that same lighter weight and getting 12-15 half-ass reps.
I usually do 5-8 for main lifts (Dead, Bench, Squat, OHP), 8-12 for accessories (Rows, Pull ups, Dips), and 12-15 for pump work (Curls, Pushdowns, Flies, Lateral Raises)
Ok
I like 6-10 for my main lifts, 8-12 on my secondary lifts and 12-15 on lifts like lateral raises abd face pulls.
At age 40, after 8 reps, the muscle group has more in the tank, but I am out of breath. Maybe age isn't even the main factor, but it seems more pronounced now. The only times I have injured myself have been low weight with 15-20 reps, years ago.
My rep range is this: go until muscle ouchie
Works for me, gonna keep doing it
Basically this in a nutshell 😂
Been doing 6-8.
Working great for me.
For me I've realized it's just basically proximity to failure and getting effective reps. It's not so much the amount of reps your set is, moreso the amount of effective reps and proximity to failure. At this point I vary my rep ranges on most exercises, one week I might do 6 to 8, one I might do 12 to 15, or even 3 to 5. The movement and program is the same just the rep ranges vary from week to week.
I get what you are saying about the "time wasting" though, I never thought of that. That's an interesting point
@@nomadericand fatigue, higher reps bring more fatigue
@chilldoc9638 actually its the opposite. You get much more fatigue when you are pushing extremely heavy weight for low reps compared to when you lift moderate weight for higher reps.
@@nomaderic no it’s not, for example 20 reps of squats with 9 RIR compared to 7 reps with 9 RIR as well, higher reps will always bring more fatigue
That is true, from my own experience. When I was doing eight or more that was a sign I need more volume.
imo 6-8 reps for compounds is the best. for some isolation , like biceps i do 8-10
I usually do 6-10 reps to failure for upper body exercises except for my incline presses and Yates rows where my rep range is 4-8 reps to failure.
With lower body, I do a compound lower body exercise with 4-15 reps to failure and there are a couple other lower body exercises I do 8-20 reps to failure on. Legs respond well in my experience with a bit higher reps.
Lol i used to have a gentleman in my comments exclaim that i am on gear because im big AND train with sets of 10-20, which is apparently a sign of gear use
I've always found 6-8 reps, or even 5-8 is way better for me, good for both size and strength.
I usually do 4-6 reps for compound lifts(like bench, squat, deadlift), 8-12 reps for DB bench, and 20-30 repa for isolation exercises like curls for pump work. I remember when you said to get stronger at different rep ranges and so far your advice still helps.
High reps cause more fatigue
I've trained Back and Biceps 💪 this evening, 6 sets of 25 to 50 reps 😮 ... I love it, my genetics...
started doing 6-8 on dumbbell bench and went from doing 70s for 8 to 90s for 7 in 3 months and been on cut past 2 months as well lol
15 reps are best
10 years later
5 resp are best
10 years later
8 reps are best
10 years later
-2 reps are best
@@anzarv 15 years later
Working out is KILLING your gains
Because EVERYTHING works! As long as you keep intensity fairly high and keep progressing you will grow.
the only downside to 6-8 is that it is a bit harder on the joints the 8-12 so if younwant to do a lot of volume it‘s probably not optimal
You don't need a lot of volume. 1 work set per exercise..
Very much depends on the exercise and individual. For small range of motion exercises like shrugs and calf raises I prefer 8-15. For tricep extensions and lateral raises I prefer higher reps to save my joints. Most exercises I prefer 6-8 reps though
High reps actually wreck my joints lol.
@@multishit6664 Weird because with high reps theres more blood pumping making ur body warm for example elbows if they're warm ur not gonna feel pain at all
MK, live from the Schuylkill. I like cycling my compounds from 10-2 reps and have found good progress with accessories in the 8-12 double progression.
Training to failure is what matters the most.
Not in isolation
@@REVIVALFitness If nutrition and sleep is dialed in, training hard to failure is only thing that matters.
@Mantastic-ho3vm Correct me then.
@Mantastic-ho3vm Doing enough volume with 1-4 reps in reserve causes more fatigue since your muscles are active for a longer period of time. The effective reps model by Chris Beardsley is the most accurate.
@Mantastic-ho3vm How has effective reps theory been debunked? You can fatigue the muscle by doing 1-2 set to failure without any junk volume.
I've always disliked high rep ranges due to the first reps being unchallenging and seemingly a waste of time. Big, main movements I keep in the 5-8 rep range (unless I can get more of course, the goal should always be to surpass this range with proper technique) and secondary and isolation movements I aim for 8-10, sometimes 10-12 like with face pulls.
The big downside I've noticed to the low rep range approach seems to be high systemic fatigue. I figure the only way to deal with this for some guys is a deload but deload workouts just don't feel very good. I've heard of guys taking full weeks off when they experienced this and gaining muscle and strength during this time but skipping the gym for even just one week sounds unbearable for a lot of dudes, let's be honest lol.
When you’re body stops training for a week you’re muscles become under stimulated again so when you do train them again they are more responsive too training; moreover if you train 6 weeks straight with no prolonged break you’re muscles become accustomed too the stimulus so gains slow down, take a couple days or a week of and then come back also you’re mtor increases after you stop training
I've always done 6-10 reps on almost every exercise because beyond 10 just feels mentally draining for me
Rep range really doesn’t matter for building muscle cause as long as your training close to failure or to failure it’s not gonna matter what rep range you use.
Now I will say that less reps with more heavy weight will definitely transfer to greater strength gains because strength is a skill but either way that builds muscle too.
Strength is an adaptation, not really a skill. But yeah it builds muscle because that’s part of the equation
@@yoeyyoey8937 Skill by definition means the ability to do something well or train to do a particular task.
Therefore building strength overtime is a skill. But it is also an adaptation. It’s both.
That’s why if you miss the gym for a couple of weeks you notice that you lose strength, on certain lifts cause those certain lifts require skill to get strong at. Of course you don’t lose muscle.
This is also why people who lift heavy all the time are stronger than the guys who lift moderate or light weights because they are practicing the skill of strength. This is a method practiced by powerlifters and strong man.
Rep range is quite literally everything.. you could train ludicrous reps close to failure and go nowhere for years or actually use your brain and lift effectively near your max without fatigue..but overloading and progress until your genetics say fuck you.
@@multishit6664 wym? Overloading and progression is the only thing you can do in training
@@yoeyyoey8937 bacon
I use mostly 6-8, but in the end of workout put 8-15 witch helps me add more work without raising my fatigue too much.
I am not completely sold on effective rep theory; I still think tonnage/overall workload has a part to play.
Louis Simmons liked his 20 rep db bench presses for a reason.
I think it is worth doing 6-8 on most compounds from time-to-time...but are you really lifting much more weight than for 10 reps. In many cases...not really. In practice imo you're going to be doing a lot of rpe 6/7 sets, especially if you like free weights.
And I can't see how shaving max 30s off a set will compensate for 1-2m extra rest between sets - doesn't add up.
Changing things up usually works for a while though.
Are you not sold on the idea of effective reps anecdotally or because you have research to back it up.
@@nickdreezy2457 I don't think the science on effective reps is hard and shut.
I mean I do agree that the reps between 5 and 2 of failure are probably more 'hypertrophic'. But basically ERT states that nobody got big doing 531 BBB. Which is silly.
I feel personally attacked that we didn’t hear from the "algorythm" in this video, which is the only reason I watch any of your videos
Is 10-12 reps bad? I work out like 45 min to an hour, mostly do compound exercises, 4-5 times a week with some isolation exercises and cardio exercises.
For the average person I recommend 8-12 minimum to failure. Fewer injuries, easier on connective tissue, and you'll get plenty of hypertrophy.
I would exclude deadlifts and squats from this equation.
Size bro
how many reps dont matter just stay in rational range of reps without radicalism
Completely agree...i do exactly 8 reps on all heavy compounds unless i fail before.
it's funny cause for the past month or so I've been considering switching up my training and instead of doing heavy hip thrusts for 12 reps that I've been doing for 7 months, to trying out the 8-10 rep range. and I started thinking about it again today with it being leg day, and then this video pops up on my recommended lol I just feel like it's a sign for what I already wanted to start doing
You could do them for 5-6 reps. What matters is reaching the intensity threshold but low reps ultimately save time and are more effective on a per-rep basis.
@@REVIVALFitness yeah that’s definitely a good point that reps will be more effective lower for sure. i lift heavy regardless cause i like to put in work by any means even if i gotta stop at rep 9 and go back in and finish the rest of my reps 😂. i also just like higher volume in general just cause i know i’ll burn a lil more calories and it’s been working for me for sure, so i feel like somewhere in the middle would be perfect for me and would still give me the opportunity to try something new
Damn you got point and good idea i will start experimenting this from now on thx 💪
Dropping a comment for the algo.👍
🤜🤛
Even though I love calisthenics way more than weight training, I never let myself do that 15+ rep BS. I’ve been adding weight to my calisthenics compounds since the 3rd year of training (you might think that’s a bit late, but keep in mind I started calisthenics at 163 kg and I’m also 6 ft 9 so yeah I was doing incline rows/push ups and foot assisted pull ups/dips for a long time before I was even able to master those basics). Once I was able to do 6-8 slow and controlled reps of a particular angle/progression, I reduced leverage, reduced assistance, or added weight. That high rep zero time under tension calisthenics BS is so annoying… they the ones that make everyone think calisthenics is easy and for beginners and you can’t get big with it.
Totally agree a lot of those people make flutter kicks a staple in their training and that’s what people think callisthenics is push-ups to mountain climbers to 500 bodyweight squats 10 second rest and go back in and while your resting do flutter kicks😂😂
And great progress congratulations!!💪
I usually just aim for 8-10 reps then use a weight I know I can’t hit for 10 reps but push out as many as I can to get at least 6-8 reps out of and build upon that
15 reps and above for me on bench is cardio meaning I have to count and watch when I inhale and exhale and I have to breathe with each rep, not over several reps. Exhaustion appears to be oxygen intake limited.
To essentially “taze” and keep sore until the next workout, 2 sets of the chest fly will put me on the floor if the sets are between 12-18 reps.
If I do 6-8 reps, it would take me 8 sets. I know because I’ve tried it.
Why are lifters scared of critical thinking.
You have to experiment with it. But idk how you would need 8 sets to get the same stimulus. That doesn't make sense.
@@REVIVALFitness this man does not understand math😂
Whether a set "puts you on the floor" or not is not indicative of muscle growth.
@@huglug9195 then I’m guessing you haven’t lifted a whole lot of weights, because if you ignore it and keep going you can get rhabdo and literally die.
It’s very indicative and relevant
@@soonahero ok??? The point is, hypertrophy is stimulated by the last 5-6 reps in a set(the ones where there is involuntary rep speed slowdown during the concentric). We know this. Those first 10 reps may make you feel sore, or tired, but that doesn't mean they triggered a hypertrophic response. How trashed you feel after a set is not a reliable metric for placing one style of training above another. You can do 100 reps of cable curls, and it will probably put you on a floor, but if you skip those last 5 reps that get you to failure, that set will not produce muscle growth. On the other hand, you can do a heavy, 6 rep set of cable curls taken to absolute failure, and you'll probably feel fine after, even though that set produced a more significant amount of muscle growth. There are plenty of examples of types of exercise that "put you on the floor" but produce negligible levels of hypertrophy.
In all the studies that I'm aware of , in which the try to see the hypertrophy rep range they usually have two groups . Group A does 3 sets 10 reps and group B does 10 sets 3 reps and the find equal hypertrophy, and also group B had more strength gains and stayed in the gym for hours. Just do whatever works for you. Some respond better to high reps and low volume some don't .
No, according to modern research, you can gain similar muscle growth in anywhere with 5-30 rep range but you’ll have higher fatigue with higher reps
Time/duration of workouts and level of muscular endurance based upon anaerobic fitness, is arguably the reason for keeping rep ranges lower, assuming one has access to all the equipment they need for their individual strength range. Mostly people have neither the time, nor the inclination to spend 3-4 hours in the gym (or even 2 hours) X number of times per week.
But few iso exercises work optimally in lower rep ranges, so the lower rep ranges mostly apply to compound and bigger lifts.
I was about to type some dumb shit yesterday, when this vid first came out like " lol only higher reps
Looking super jacked in the thumbnail 💪
Thank you
I’m in my 50s and started training in the 5-8 range and now my joints feel better. Yes you need to train with heavier weights compared to 10-15 reps but honestly it’s not that much heavier.
The biggest problem with YT fitness is they want you to live in the gym, confuse you and charge you for programming. Tailored programs with sets and reps is a scam. Just eat in a surplus and train how you like. Do the cut later.
So for better hypertrophy 6-8 or 8-10 reps? I mean isn't the progression in reps and load better when working in the 8-10 reps because it's a bit less taxing on the nervous system and from recovery standpoint in general?
But what about time under tension brah?
You could also argue that when doing 12 reps, the first 8 ( using your example) does do something, it fatigues more of the muscle fibres meaning that when you are doing the last reps, you are having to use them all. The other thing is rep ranges are person specific, that's why the science says 5-20, as some respond better to lower, some respond better to higher. The logical reason is due to peoples muscle fibre composition. The key is to try it for a month/meso then adjust based off how you feel.
6-8 is time under tension. You don't get much muscle strain time at 1-2 reps. Those reps are to try a new max or bench a bit at max. Longer is cardio, and deals with breathing more than lifting.
I did not get a 100kg bench for many years because I always did 10 reps. it was a fucking L for sure.
Guessing you hit it once you went to 5 - 8 ?
@@npc2k I got a 100kg bench by doing 4 sets of 3... ... on overhead press
See Skip LaCour Bodybuilder . 4 to 6 Reps , 5er split . The best .
No skip now does 6 to 8
Max OT baby
Did anyone else watch this video because they hate doing high reps?
I like 5-8 on the Big 3 (and weighted pull-ups) particularly for the Beginner/Intermediate levels, and I 10-15 on isolation work and most other things. Once you hit a certain level of strength on the big 3, you will probably benefit from going higher volume on those too. I like to keep deadlifts as a 5x1 exercise otherwise I believe your waist can get thicker, and I don’t want that in Men’s Physique. If you don’t want bigger legs for similar reasons, keeping your squat at 5 reps or less can be good too - strong legs without necessarily getting bigger.
Is this a reply to Scott Herman?
No. Did he just discuss this?
I mostly train in the 8-12 rep range but 3 weeks ago I started training with low loads and higher reps (up to 25) rpe 7 on isolation movements, for compounds I'm leaving 2-4 rir.
The reason for this change is because I've accumulated systemic fatigue and joint discomfort during the previous couple of months, also stress not related to workout.
I might be training like this for another month, my joints are feeling better, I feel less tired to the point that I don't even take naps anymore. I also feel like I really want to lift heavy, so motivation is going up a lot.
I totally recommend higher reps for instances like this.
If you're training at RPE7, you're wasting time
@@divyansh6574 why?
@@cafecitoconazucar Best growth stimulus only happens at RPE9-10. Training to failure is the most important thing for growth.
@@divyansh6574 I train like that, this is my first time doing this different approach. What would you recommend for my case?
@@cafecitoconazucar Only 1-2 sets on every exercise to failure. 3-4 exercises every training day. 3-4 training days per week.
Weirdly enough, I got my best muscle and strength gains doing a mix of low(~5),mid(~10) and high reps(20-25)
I agree to an extent, best to cycle rep ranges.
8-12 (start with weight that fails at 8) to go 12 then up weight. That's how i do it
Thats a good progression model
I only less than 6 for squats. For some reason, my legs have been blowing up with this, I went from 225 to 285 within 3 weeks.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but it is discouraged to hit your muscles every day, like hitting chest 6 days per week etc. But you have men with labor professions like farmers, lumberjacks, etc that lift heavy things for hours 5-7 days per week and are jacked. Can you help me understand? Am I missing something?
You shouldn’t be hitting a muscle every single day unless you have to for work. Common work-involved muscles like the forearms, calves, abs, and traps are more resilient to this due to muscle fiber types. Much of manual labor is isometric holds, meaning they are carrying things or assuming one position for extended periods. This is not the same as performing an eccentric and concentric stretch/contraction. A full muscle contraction (eg a bench press) needs more recovery time than carrying tools or swinging an axe.
Those guys don’t train those muscles close to failure, they aren’t actually training when working at all
If you don't already, you should follow Chris Beardsley. He's a dense science content guy that recommends your advocated training range. A bit lower actually (5-7 reps) with a Hepburn style progression.
Average Black Ice enjoyer fr
I always felt like the term hypertrophy is so useless and overly broad. It makes more sense to work with a set and rep range that is constant and just progressive overload the weight amount. I get there are many ways to lift, but the whole hypertrophy obsession seems to keep lifters, especially novices and beginners, stuck spinning their wheels instead of just focusing on building a size and strength base. I only really apply higher rep ranges and a more hypertrophy approach to isolated movements, but heavy compounds seem to be done better with high intensity, low volume imo. Also, the word in itself is lame - small and weak science dorks use it to excuse themselves from working hard and putting more weight on the bar.
I agree with this.
George Leeman has entered the chat
If all the reps before failure are junk reps and don't count, then why is it 6 to 20, 6 to 8 or whatever.. why not just 1 rep at full max all the time.. that should make shorter gym time and max gains...well according that all the other reps mean nothing.
Dude...how do you not have more subscribers?
Too honest
Used to do calisthenics back in the pre gym days and made gains from sets of 30+ reps of push ups and 20+ reps of pull ups and dips. The best chest gains in my life came at that time from just doing tons of push ups with tons of sets and reps, to the point its too big and train it only once a week now.
5 reps still builds a ton of muscle, I'd argue even 4 reps can. Just 1-2 won't do anything substantial and 3 is flexibly not much size gains or sometimes does continue to size
I personally have always felt a better response with 8s on extreme ROM lateral raises and bicep curls :^D
Extreme ROM lateral raises?
What does that even mean
Great video. Im going to go back to 6 to 8 reps for upper body...you increase weights once you hit 9 reps?
Paul Carter has been saying this for years. Before social media. 6-8 reps is preferable for muscle growths. With low-moderate volume & high intensity.
the only one thing i probably disagree on is the isolation work like bicep curls especially and others should be more moderate to high reps to minimise injury risk
Actual facts. People think youre gonna get elbow ebola or joint cancer if you do lateral raises or curls in a low rep range
I’ve been doing 6-8 rep lateral raises and they’re a very nice challenge compared to the usual 12-15
Some isolation movements just tend to not feel so great when loaded too heavily. But yeah if you’re really controlling the weight I think the rep range can be lowered
Joint cancer hahahah
It important to understand that this is not what the current data shows us, this is just this guy’s opinion on training.
In reality there only a few things that actually matter, and not necessarily in this order, they are.
1, effort
2, consistency
3, diet
4, rest and recovery
You can do anything from 1-40 reps and build a massive strong physique.
I think the most important things are consistency and the effort YOU bring to the gym! You can can have a shit diet and still make gains, you can have a terrible sleep schedule and still make gains, but if you can’t consistently bring more effort than last time you will not progress.
Use a reasonable rep range for each exercise, get stronger in said rep range maintaining good form. (Don’t do triples on curls or 14 rep deadlifts) No magic bullet here
I do 9 reps just to spite you.
6-8 reps for isolation exercises works well too, you dont have to exclusively do high reps for those, i find 6-8 reps for calves really works
@The Jerk Show don't see how it wouldn't work, calves are like any other muscle in the sense that they need to be progressively overloaded and loaded decently heavy enough to be efficiently taken to failure, it's not just feel the burn fluff and pump
i mix high & low rp ranges in one excercise, set by set
Just adjust the weight.
2:00 I hate that shit so much.
I saw a big strength gains with 5sets/5reps, But I saw a bigger size games with 4sets/8reps. I’m natural and if you want to gain size as a natural, you’re gonna have to do at least eight reps
Your conclusion is totally wrong. 8 or more reps is not magic for naturals. Lol.
Ok so
6-8 reps
How many sets nd how long should I rest 1,2,or 3 min ?
How long you rest is dependent on what exercise you do and how hard you train
I personally prefer the 1-4 rep range, but that's because I can only count to 4 🐸
1, 2, 5, 4 (5, 4)
Hypertrophy is ur least favorite word? :(
LOL
Totally clicked on this cause the title triggered me! TBH I pick weights where I fail each set around 8 and grind on with cheat reps or whatever to hit my 10 reps. So I actually agree higher weights and failing around 6 to 8 will improve strength and offer the same hypertrophy so long as you don't end up cutting your time under tension down.
Gotcha 😈
I haven't even watched the video yet but the title is enough for me, since I hate going above 8
🤝