Critiquing Comedy In Star Trek Discovery

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  • Опубликовано: 1 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 80

  • @schpengler
    @schpengler 5 лет назад +21

    I totally agree with you about Tilly’s humor falling flat in season 2. You explained very well why it failed. The writers added jokes with no consideration of the scene.

  • @rocket396
    @rocket396 5 лет назад +20

    it's like someone said "let's make tilly deliver jokes like kramer"

  • @vimoh
    @vimoh 5 лет назад +26

    Exactly! In season one they presented her as someone with command potential. But watching her bumbling around in season 2 I was thinking, "Seriously? Her? In Command?" I don't think Commanders need to be unfunny. But this level of childishness was hard to swallow. I think they just didn't know what to do with her.

    • @FrankHuber
      @FrankHuber 5 лет назад +4

      maybe it's a kind of realistic depiction of a young person starting out in the hope her knowledge and skills are wanted and she could be someone really important and then after a while in the workplace with many colleagues giving her a hard time, not taking her seriously she got more and more insecure.

  • @MegaWetwilly
    @MegaWetwilly 5 лет назад +26

    I like Tilly, but i think they did a better use of humor with the Jett Reno character than Tilly in season 2, though I loved her humor when dealing with Po, they worked well together in my view.

    • @JessieGender1
      @JessieGender1  5 лет назад +5

      Agreed! Jet Reno was wonderful and I wish we got more of her. And Po and Tilly were also great, I wish Po get sent to the future with them.

    • @formy52
      @formy52 3 года назад +1

      @@JessieGender1 Oh boy do we need more Reno in our lives.

  • @DavidMajors
    @DavidMajors 5 лет назад +14

    In Season 1, my reaction to Tilly was very much in line with Lorca---"Seriously?"
    But in Season 2, I have to once again thank Anson Mount's phenomenal performance as Captain Pike. He clearly took an amicable (while still professional) liking to Tilly, despite her awkwardness and inexperience. Pike himself was a great character for alleviating tension in Season 2. He he was always cool under pressure. For a lot of viewers, I think Tilly was an avatar of being so flustered and scatter-brained in the middle of the Klingon War and stuck in the Mirror Universe. The writers did a lot of audience perspective through Tilly, I think (especially since so many fans see her as the most relatable character). That may have been the reason behind the change. Pike, and a more prominent Emperor Georgiou allowed comic relief, whereas Tilly could have some more 'story' moments, while still showing that she's still an awkward Ensign...that Captain Pike didn't really mind. ;)

  • @hokusman100
    @hokusman100 5 лет назад +14

    Tilly is the only character I liked in S1 other than pre-reveal Lorca

  • @bigbadbuckinboots
    @bigbadbuckinboots 5 лет назад +4

    Understand and agree with you on this topic, and like you, I hope season three allows Tilly to be herself - funny, intelligent, ebullient, friendly, cautious, shy, gutsy, neurotic, courageous - and not the "goofy laff riot" season two seemed to keep reminding us that she is.

  • @alanscott4846
    @alanscott4846 5 лет назад +10

    I was fine with Tilly in season 2, her and Stamets are my favorite characters. I do hope in season 3 that they have more episodes that develop other characters, Burnham is a great character but one of the things the older shows did do better was to have stand alone episodes that stared other characters and that allowed for more natural development. Dr Colbert was reborn from another dimension, we only got a peek at how that affected him physically and mentally, then it seemed like it was just over, I would have liked to have seen more let the characters breath a bit more. I think Tilly should always be funny and quirky but also more confident, not too confident she is a low level officer so she probably still has some growing to do. Just my two cents.

    • @cryofpaine
      @cryofpaine 5 лет назад +1

      Part of the problem is they only have a few episodes in a season. Half what a normal TV series has.

  • @munirone
    @munirone 5 лет назад +3

    Absolutely completely agree! Someone please share this vid with Disco producers!

  • @TheBlindDyslexic
    @TheBlindDyslexic 5 лет назад +7

    The Timing of her Humor was mediocre. You're right about the Door scene. She should have given the report, then the routine about the door.

  • @AnaT0
    @AnaT0 5 лет назад +6

    I agree, the humour was much more organic in season 1. I still like Tilly but the writers utilise her for comedic relief and techno/science babble to the point her character does not feel substantial. I really hope there will be more character-centric episodes in the next season

  • @EricRangell
    @EricRangell 4 года назад +1

    The reality of a career path is that people may not grow up for several years until something happens to them that forces an epiphany and changes their motivation. This can often be a serious mistake that puts a person's career at risk. So it is possible that she is being held back from growth in her role - but we need to see some pivotal event in the near future that changes her. Thanks for pointing out the ineffectiveness of how she is written in certain scenes.

    • @EricRangell
      @EricRangell 4 года назад

      Maybe give her some graveyard shift work with Jett on some quantum dark energy multiverse problems.

  • @mutanix
    @mutanix 5 лет назад +4

    Agreed. While I liked S2 more than the first season, the show still has a problem with character development and their mishandling of Tilly is evidence of that.

  • @MrPicaso72
    @MrPicaso72 5 лет назад +5

    I like Tilly, and think their approach of making her kind of timid works well. That being said, I really wish we could have seen more character development of Lieutenant Commander Ariam..

  • @kombinatsiya6000
    @kombinatsiya6000 5 лет назад +9

    I still don't understand why the writing on DISCO is so inconsistent and weak. Pretty sure they could get A-level writing talent if they wanted to, people who know how to write Sci-Fi in 2019 but instead the writers seem amateurish.

    • @TheCastellan
      @TheCastellan 5 лет назад

      Because it's 'the michael burnham show!'.
      Gave up on this show mid first season.

    • @HereComesPopoBawa
      @HereComesPopoBawa 4 года назад +2

      I do enjoy the series, but I feel that the characters and cast are better than the quality of the writing. There are some great themes and bits of story, but knit together by someone who didn't think the implications through very far, like they might have in a couple more drafts. I felt similarly about Picard, as well. Reminds me of RTD-era Doctor Who in a way - like they know what setpieces and emotional beats they want, but there's a lot of (IMO) unsatisfying handwaving about how they get there.

  • @jlbeeen
    @jlbeeen 3 года назад +1

    Maybe I never had a problem with some of those awkward moments because I do literally the same thing. I talk a lot when anxious, often state things people know, and have a hard time talking around people I'm not familiar with. I guess that's more that I saw it as relatable not comedy. Same with Barclay in TNG. While I know his main function was as comedy and laughed at some moments, I found his social anxiety and questionable coping methods very relatable, even if it was driven for comedy and often made fun of him.

  • @scottkfilgo
    @scottkfilgo 5 лет назад +3

    I know lots of fans have said the same thing you've said but I think the off-putting is a bit overstated. Basically the annoyingness of a few too many Tilly-isms deserved a 3 on a 10 point scale, but some are ranking it a 7. Yep, when the writing staff changes occurred early in season 2, we got better stories but simultaneously suffered a little in the character department for the primary characters but it's a transition i think will work out fine. The story got a LOT better than in Season 1 and is headed to even better areas next season, so if Tilly seems like a cardboard cutout of her original self, I say one must be patient. The over effect of staff changes was totally worth a few extra (and unnecessary) Tilly moments.

  • @ChuckstaGaming
    @ChuckstaGaming 4 года назад +2

    I really liked Tilly to begin with, I now find her annoying.
    I really like Georgiou. I can't wait for Section 31

  • @TheBlindDyslexic
    @TheBlindDyslexic 5 лет назад +1

    The dorp that the Red Angel was Michael, is what annoyed me the most. Because they KEPT her at ALL aspects of the PLANNING stages for the Mouse Trap.
    Michale SHOULD have recused herself. When the trap was being implemented, Spock should have midway through made should Shot her Apology down, started 3rd Degreeing as to Why she hadn't recused herself all so she could jinx the trap.

  • @amehak1922
    @amehak1922 5 лет назад +4

    She's adorable and it's endearing

  • @TheBlindDyslexic
    @TheBlindDyslexic 5 лет назад +1

    Like a Dronconian. My Life at your command.

  • @QueenBoadicea
    @QueenBoadicea 2 года назад

    I'm reminded of the behavior of another nervous redhead. Does anybody recall Willow's behavior when she tried to imitate her vampire self? That was wacky as all get out. "I'm so evil...and skanky. And I think I'm a little gay."

  • @josephde-haan1074
    @josephde-haan1074 5 лет назад +1

    Firstly I am really enjoying your videos. I like the insights I never considered and I learned the word and concept of BATHOS, ta. Just a comment on fascism in fiction. I am a big comic book fan and in the top tier of comic characters for me is Judge Dredd, from a young age I was fascinated how such a fascist character was also such a brilliant character and all of us 2000AD fans rooted for and admired the fascist. It very much depends on the world these characters were socialised in and their personal characteristics that make them seem justified in their reality. Captain Phillipa was socialised in the mirror universe and it is interesting watching her use these duplicitous, scheming charateristics to function within the world of the federation, whilst fulfilling their objectives.

  • @morrigangg
    @morrigangg 5 лет назад +4

    As a trans Star Trek nerd I feel so represented

  • @ronjeffrey8641
    @ronjeffrey8641 5 лет назад +11

    All this adds up to show the weak writing of the show, and my theory is the stepped up the comedy because they were attempting to compete with their strongest competition "The Orville"

  • @benjaminstock5334
    @benjaminstock5334 5 лет назад +1

    I agree wholeheartedly, but I am curious: how would you have incorporated Tilly's humor into season 2?

    • @JessieGender1
      @JessieGender1  5 лет назад +1

      It’s hard work being bitter honestly, I would have liked them to continue thecommand training program thread they had at the top of the season. It was something we really hadn’t seen before in Star Trek, and offered a cool way for us to learn how they train captain in Starfleet, and could have provided great fooder for Tilly’s character growth and humor. But it kinda got dropped after 2 or 3 episodes.

    • @benjaminstock5334
      @benjaminstock5334 5 лет назад

      @@JessieGender1 Thanks for the quick service.

    • @benjaminstock5334
      @benjaminstock5334 5 лет назад +2

      Personally, I think that Tilly's humor is a defensive mechanism to fend against the intensity of the workplace, and without a dramatic counterpoint like there was in season 1, Tilly has no motivation to be funny. I think that if Tilly wasn't humorous in non-intense episodes, it would benefit the show.
      Also, I agree with your points about knee jerk humor in serious situations ("yum yum". "AI sausage", etc.) I think these MCU-esque lines do real harm to the show and to the Star Trek brand. It makes me feel like I cannot take it seriously.

  • @joegrimes9232
    @joegrimes9232 Год назад

    She's introduced with a "tell don't show" mentality. Rather than say have Burnam assigned to Tilly aboard Discovery. Spend a day alongside her and JUST when she goes off duty, she finds out Tilly is her roomate... Comedy... No its reversed.

  • @michelvec
    @michelvec 4 года назад

    This channel is awesome!

  • @johnhall3106
    @johnhall3106 5 лет назад +1

    Win will u wear a Star Trek red dress ?

  • @HereComesPopoBawa
    @HereComesPopoBawa 4 года назад

    Hello? Yes, Clem Fandango - I can hear you!

  • @WKYanks
    @WKYanks 5 лет назад +2

    They know they have a good thing with Tilly and they've fallen for the same trap the writers of FarScape (John) and Stargate (Jack) fell into. We loved the uniqueness of their characters (kind of quirky, funny, etc.) but they ended up going overboard with them in their respective series’ latter years. Same with Tilly. I agree, I loved her more in season 1 than season 2 because the writers took her bubbly lovable personality and FORCED humor in thinking it would work. On many occasions in season 2, as you've stated, it did not... and it's not because of Mary Wiseman either, she's AWESOME! They just need to let Tilly be Tilly. Hopefully the DISCO writers will do better than the FarScape and Stargate writers did and learn from their mistakes. I'll add that another reason I love Tilly. Mary isn't a skinny supermodel. Probably the first time in Trek that a main character (human) doesn't look like they lived in the gym. Nice vid.

  • @RX552VBK
    @RX552VBK 5 лет назад +2

    Tilly to me represents everything I loathe about DISCO--great actor saddled with badly written dialog. Ugh! The whole show is like someone with long metal finger nails scratching a blackboards over and over again! >: (

  • @averybell4273
    @averybell4273 5 лет назад

    Great Analysis

  • @fredrika27
    @fredrika27 5 лет назад +5

    I don't agree with you. I think what you should do is stop comparing Tilly with other Trek series characters! You've missed the point of Tilly: she's there to have someone the audience can identify with. She tells jokes at the most inappropriate moments, has a motor mouth and must work at the simplest social interactions. Her imperfections force her colleagues and her superiors to deal with her on a more human level and even mentor her so that she can be a better person! Tilly has perfection all around her: people who excel at their jobs! This forces her character to actually deliver the goods, which Tilly does most of the time! Now, I love my Trek just like the next person, but Star Fleet also has a reputation as being elitist and perfectionist organization in which only a very few can join! Think about it! How many students actually attend an Ivy League university or West Point? Very few, because either your parents have to have money or you're so bright, you pass the test with flying colors. In fact the viewer never really gets to see how civilians view Star Fleet, which is like an intergalactic military and secret service rolled into one. We are only led to believe that you have to be very bright and goal oriented to get in. Tilly knows this and can't believe her luck that an "average girl" like herself got in! She most likely feels like a fraud, hence the jokes! Because of the backlash of the fan boys who hate SJW, a black female lead and gay marriage side story, the writers tried to placate them by bringing in Pike and Spock, who were better written in second season than any other characters and at the expense of supporting characters' development. I am very disappointed that you didn't recognize this and call the writers on their BS and for letting the entire cast down by mediocre writing of their characters! This is a pattern that the writers have displayed over the last 50+ years of writing for Trek! With the exceptions of Janeway, Seven, Kira and Dax, most women in Trek have not been written well. In fact on every series, they had to bring in women writers to improve the female characters! Don't believe me? Why is Pike better written than the lead character Burnham? It's a shame! That Trek needs to actually hire more minority and women writers to balance out the injustices would be kowtowing to SJW and feminist who supposedly want to emasculate Trek. That isn't the goal of SJW or feminists. They want more and better representation so that characters like Tilly will actually get good character development instead of this uneven writing because certain demographics have to be satisfied!

  • @djackson4657
    @djackson4657 5 лет назад

    Everyone on a starship has their own quarters, no one shares quarters, on a five year mission you need your own space,

    • @dorientjewoller113
      @dorientjewoller113 5 лет назад

      Discovery isn't exactly a starship. It was an expermental science ship being thrown into the role of a starship.

    • @Mokiefraggle
      @Mokiefraggle 4 года назад

      Given the size of a the TOS-era Trek starships (which the Discovery technically is even slightly earlier than), it's entirely likely that lower ranked crew members didn't have their own quarters. The officers might have (hence why even Yeoman Rand did), but it's entirely possible that particularly engineering crew were in bunks somewhere near their actual engineering stations, in case of emergencies and to ensure minimal time between shift pass-overs. The Constitution class ships were less than 1000 feet long, and goodness knows how much of that was not inhabitable space (engineering decks, the docking bay, etc.). Also, on an experimental glorified science-experiment of a ship like Discovery, with the need for the entire actual *forest* of space mushrooms to help power the spore drive, that right there is taking up a probably massive amount of liveable space right there, let alone everything else. It's probably akin to life on an aircraft carrier with a little more elbow room.
      Now, on a honking huge thing like the Enterprise-D, a Galaxy class, is over 2,100 feet in length, 1,500+ feet wide. That's the sort of ship where the only time people live in the same quarters is if they're family. You could probably slap a Discovery-era spore drive in one of those beasts with minimal disruption of quality-of-life for the crew.

  • @mattdrzal387
    @mattdrzal387 2 года назад +1

    Hard disagree. It'd be e extremely out of character for her, a character who gets easily nervous and rambles, to go in and say huge news. I don't think you're supposed to laugh each time she rambles

  • @michaeltipler5674
    @michaeltipler5674 2 года назад

    ? No it was a character assassination attempt on the writer's behalf

  • @rgvylcstaff1818
    @rgvylcstaff1818 5 лет назад +3

    The Doctor on Voyager and Data on TNG are the best comic relief characters. We know how they see the world, and they are really competent at their jobs, but they are fish out of water. Data and the Doctor are better than Tilly by miles.

    • @scottkfilgo
      @scottkfilgo 5 лет назад

      I respect that opinion but I have to say that Tilly is better than past Trek "comedic" characters because for the most part she is portrayed (and written) more realistically. Rewatch that Data episode with Guinan and the holo-comic (Joe Piscapo). Classic Trek humor... almost an entire episode devoted to bad dad-jokes. Hard to enjoy as much with adult ears. Rather fake (inauthentic) in my humble opinion. Same with most of The Doctor's humor... very... TV sit com. Those Treks were at their best when they focused on a few funny lines but got back to the drama, pathos and action. I don't think I have to even describe the mwah MWAHHH corniness in TOS comedy scenes.
      So I think Tilly is a vast improvement in the comedy department because she is much more real, more authentic, even if she delivers a few too many jokey moments this season. The whole "broke a captain" bit was not only funny, it was adorable for both Tilly AND Pike.

  • @ZoeMalDoran
    @ZoeMalDoran 4 года назад

    I'm enjoying Tilly so far (9 episodes in to season 1). She's my favourite member of the crew, though to be fair, almost everyone has grown on me.
    After the pilot 2-parter, I thought "Saru has a lot of potential, Burnham's horrible and unlikeable, and Georgiou should've survived instead. I'll see what I think about the rest of the main cast when we get to them".
    Stammets didn't make a good first impression, but after he injected himself with the tardigrade DNA, he was much more fun.
    Lorca was, and still is, firmly in the "love to hate" box. He's been entertaining and interesting primarily because of how much he differs from what we've come to expect from a Starfleet Captain (and yes, I know he's from the Mirror Universe).
    Tyler and Tilly have been good for Burnham. I feel they've softened her just enough that I can say "Yeah, she's not so bad now".
    Looking forward to the rest of the season 🙂
    Live long and prosper 🤗

  • @shelleywinters6763
    @shelleywinters6763 2 года назад

    I can't STAND the Tilly character, now seen all 4 seasons and still can't stand her. She's not funny, she's annoying and stressful to watch, I was more concerned that the unfounded support and letting her do responsible jobs was going to get everyone killed and it very nearly did on numerous occasions

  • @j-lgroen1239
    @j-lgroen1239 3 года назад

    I found nothing more immersion breaking than this awfully written character. It’s like the writers challenged themselves to write the most un-Trek character. Can you imagine anyone in previous Trek shows having a freaking emotional breakdown during every crisis and then being promoted to acting first officer? It’s a joke and the writers are laughing at us.
    I miss when Star Trek officers had an iota of decorum and acted like the professionals you’d have to be at that level of command. Instead we now get group hugs in every episode like it’s summer camp.
    I lament folks that get introduced to Star Trek via discovery and think that this is what it’s about...

  • @sideshowkazstuff3867
    @sideshowkazstuff3867 4 года назад

    It might also be that her character is nervous and the jokes come from nervousness. Unfortunately they also needed times to show her nervousness without humour. She needs a coping mechanism possibly silent like tapping a pressure point to show her nervousness without speaking and also when she does make a joke and actually needs to say it an extra bit of humour is someone mentioning she’s not doing her thing and she’s done the other thing.

  • @nicnaknoc
    @nicnaknoc 4 года назад

    I adore Tilly, cuz she feels so relatable as a fellow aspie

  • @GrannyGamer1
    @GrannyGamer1 Год назад

    💯🖖🏾

  • @codak29
    @codak29 5 лет назад +2

    Riley isn't funny. Tiley is a worse Barclay.

  • @Gabrigattin
    @Gabrigattin 3 года назад

    Tilly needs more love ❤️

  • @Hapokas112
    @Hapokas112 5 лет назад

    I don't like the comedy in Star Trek: Discovery.
    Nice video.

  • @Alixir_of_Life999
    @Alixir_of_Life999 5 лет назад +1

    Tilly really isn't very funny. No-one in discovery is particularly funny. It's like stargate: Universe. Whenever a franchise decides to be more dark or gritty they make everyone grumpy but leave one "funny " character who has no one to riff off of. People can be smart professionals and have a good sense of humour, but some tv shows don't see that these days

  • @trekjudas
    @trekjudas 5 лет назад

    I'm sorry, I was too distracted by those ugly ass uniforms!!

  • @boss-anova
    @boss-anova 5 лет назад

    A person on the Autustic Spectrum would never make it into Starfleet.

    • @Mikhavoc
      @Mikhavoc 5 лет назад

      nice troll comment

    • @boss-anova
      @boss-anova 5 лет назад

      @@Mikhavoc its true

    • @boss-anova
      @boss-anova 5 лет назад

      @Halifax because starfleet requires a psychological exam to pass. This era of Starfleet wouldn't accept an autistic cadet. Sorry.

    • @boss-anova
      @boss-anova 5 лет назад

      @Halifax next gen era would

    • @KariIzumi1
      @KariIzumi1 18 дней назад

      And yet there are many autistic coded characters in Star Trek! Curious! 🙃