Linus Torvalds: What You Should Do As A Developer
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
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I did the interview with Linus Torvalds back in 2007 when he said there may not be a kernel version 3.0, and back then I asked him about the whole NVIDIA deal. That was the interview which kicked off the meme about Linus being a "psychopath" for expressing his frustrations in a very forward way, and it was even quoted in Encyclopedia Dramatica years later. What fun times. I think it was one of the first more technical interviews that got into details about the core kernel like memory management and how it works, but written in a more friendly way for a general audience that might enjoy the details, like programmers and enthusiasts writing their own homebrew OSs. Back then we thought there wasn't much left to do, which is one reason he said there probably wasn't going to be a kernel 3.0. It would be just updates and patches to the 2.6 series kernel. How things have changed, and how they have also remained the same. Edit: Primeagen, you are absolutely correct about picking something to work on and it doesn't necessarily have to be different, because you want to, and it's exciting and interesting, and it can be HTTP 1.0 because you've never done sockets, and write a mini web server. Those projects are great, and it's these projects that make coding great, it's what keeps you interested and passionate, and absolutely can develop your skills to the next level.
Significant People like you just walk around the Internet with random usernames😂😂
@@yungifez true
That line note thing is actually genius. Also great advice Prime. Having yours and Linus's perspective combined definitely gave a better perspective on things.
Kinda like code comments, but just for you. Sounds great
"Hard to find a good C compiler in 2007"
Youngster.
I pirated Turbo C and ended up buying Borland C++ 4. and Borland C++ 5. I still have those shitty printed-on-toilet-paper manuals.
as a person born in 2004, printing man pages on paper is crazy
I agree with Prime a bit more here. I have personally felt disdain and doom when my brain fails to arrive at what others want but I always felt good when I did what I wanted to do. I also feel that finding what others need comes with a lot of experience. So, yes, maybe creating for others is a good idea when one has years of experience under their sleeves
Doing it! I am a bowler, so I created a stats app for myself, a PWA in 100% javascript, because I thought it would be challenging. I opened it up to the rest of the world a few weeks ago and it's doing great already. The project itself has been very fun. One thing I will say, once you open it up to the world, it becomes a different beast, just don't lose sight of why you created it in the first place.
2 million developers worldwide sounds tiny when you consider we have coding LLMs created from such a small pool of minds is pretty wild if you think about it
4:20 Open Source is NOT Democracy. Democracy is when the people vote about what's done, and then some solution is chosen which doesn't satisfy anybody.
Open Source is multiple dictatorships. But if you don't like it, you can fork it. And if the dictator does something wrong, people might switch to a fork, a different dictator.
True, it's like a world where every country is a kingdom but there's no borders and infinite land
Fair, but this broader use of things being "democratized" in English has little to do with the core concept of democracy. Usually instead refers to reduced barriers of entry into some activity, like reduced cost of entry, etc.
"the dictatorships of the working class"
almost like people are choosing the leader using some sort of voting system
@@Firefly445
not even remotely.
I think linus was coming from a purely OSS perspective and Primeagen was coming from a personal project that could help learn something new and it doesn’t have to OSS or useful to others. Both of these are kind of different points IMO
But nonetheless, a nice video.
My thoughts exactly 💯
0:11 Is Flip jealous of Prime?
It does looks pretty good, super tidy for a yerba mate cup
Flip, take this guy out
AFAIK, Linus was working with Minix and decided to tune it's terminal and after some time specifically for this tuning he got to the kernel patching and rewriting Minix to Linux. So it's not even "find something that interesting to you", he was just fooling around and it's just happened and kernel development found him and dragged into Linux development. BTW I find it's interesting to build scalable game server and modify the engine to spread workloads across the server farm and separate processing of different parts other the big open world. One day I'll try to do that for fun.
He made something that the growing tech industry needed so it doesn't pay "Microsoft tax" and boost the profit margins. FOSS is misrepresented as the "alternative" to "evil proprietary", but it is complimentary to it - it provided the second leg that "Big Tech" needed to stand. And what a gift to humanity Big Tech turned out to be...
FOSS is thriving in the B2B market, but where it is championed as good thing to people is in the user space. Like a lot of things, corporations are right in maximizing their investments, they try to avoid spending time and money on things that don't improve their goals, and focus on putting towards things that do.
Consumers on the other hand are more likely to get stuck in the rat race by not maximizing like this, and seeing buying a proprietary phone as a splurge, a treat for them to indulge in. It's a kind of learned helplessness too, a lot of people just don't know they can use FOSS apps, let alone know that they can modify it themselves.
While I hate all big tech, FOSS preventing "Microsoft tax" likely means that Microsoft would have even more control at this point.
A good tool can be abused by selfish actors. I don't think that means the tool itself is negative or that it should stop being accessible. Perhaps one could argue for stricter copylefting.
Big tech existing is much more a result of how markets work, a lack of regulation and restrictions, as well as societal tendencies as @AndrewMorris-wz1vq has pointed out
@@DasSnek Well, if it helps you sleep better at night, Microsoft most likely makes more money on FOSS than the sum of computer end users combined.
@@dgo4490 An impressive deflection
@@DasSnekI mean that the alleged "social betterment" motivation of FOSS is just marketing fluff. It was clearly designed with no safeguards to become a domain of unethical corporation and facilitate their predatory business practices. It's "freedom" as in "free market", which is "as much freedom as one can afford", it's immense power for the rich and close to nothing for average Joe - a vehicle of the amplification of inequality and exploitation of the downtrodden. What FOSS has done for the people en masse is some employment opportunity, till they train their AI replacement and get sacked in the name of profits.
Open Source is indeed for yourself, to learn something, and make your own work easier.
But always build with the intention that is can be used by others. That is not the goal, but will also help yourself if you check it again over a few months.
I'm not sure that Torvalds IS saying that the project needs to be "meaningful to others", he never directly says that, that's the article's writer's interpretation of his following statement. All he says is that you shouldn't chase trends, and find something you find interesting and become good at it. Which is the same thing you're saying.
That said, I think there is a slight adjustment required when making something for yourself, and that is that you should put in the effort required to share it with others. eg: document it, leave helpful comments, don't write just temporary code, and make it something that wouldn't irritate someone else if they had to work in your code base. If you're only focused on you, you might justify writing poor quality code or not document things. But yes, the problem with sharing it with others is ego chasing and doing it to try to impress someone else/build up your own pride, rather than just making something helpful and useful.
Can you give me an advice on this?
I'm a fresh graduate and I always listened to this advice of "start by building projects that are useful for yourself" but the problem is that I have never faced a tech problem...
Its like, I don't have any niche need to build a useful little app for and I can't find a passion after 4 years of university.
Sorry if I just dumped this on you, but I liked your comment
Netbeans mentioned!!!!
Came for Linus' advice. Stayed for Prime's wisdom.
Thanks for reminding me how awesome raspberry pi is and also the whole nine yards thing 👍
I remember my first experience with software, very first thing I ever did was write PHP and a little javascript straight into Notepad. I didn't even know, i just searched PHP and javascript online and read straight from documentation and forums, no youtube tutorials with setting up a development environment. felt so cool even with something so basic, that typing into a text file, changing the extension, and it can make the computer do work. i don't even understand how I ever got anything to work like that.
I did that same thing back in middle school more than a decade ago!
We'd write plain html into notepad by memory or referencing the class book, save as mysite1.txt, mysite2.txt etc then rename it and change the extension to .html
It was fascinating to me as a kid that I ended up doing the teacher's work of helping everyone else!
It was just basic rectangles and boxes but it sure was magical!
I miss those days and wish more than id like to admit if current tech was simple just like back then
as someone who was hired by tech and let go, now works in another industry but still codes... open source has a bright future. I see alot of passionate devs who are capable and out of work, we gotta do something :p
everybody does indeed have a unique view of the world from which unique ideas will naturally come from. many will follow others while ignoring their own ideas. i completely agree with prime that you should just go for it, let the future decide whether it's useful to others.
6:54 Question was about how to make a great OpenSource project. He talked about a lot of great devs work on Linux and how he couldn't have done it alone. He is not yapping about your hobby project telling you to drop it :D
Prime upgraded from swamp water to swamp shake.
3:08 meme discovered
I agree with Linus, maybe start an idea with something you'd enjoy building and using but along the way make it useful and meaningful to others. If your idea was to learn something, as a professional, making it for others as well make you learn better by forcing you to create something clean with good API / interface, good quality and relatable.
7:15 Yeah, I created a Petri Net Editor. It's probably useless to many people, but it's useful to me.
This. I write my personal projects for myself, out of need or curiosity. The ones that are public are the ones I think might be useful to someone else.
If you build something meaningful to others as soon as the hype dies out you will stop liking working on it.
This is also true for youtubers that stop doing what they like altogether to chase numbers, and then they burnout
I disagree prime, your line note thing would be useful to any dev. Think how many times comments have broken up code too much and made it more confusing as a result. Being able to add notes to the line of interest would be more effective in such scenarios. Dunno how you did it without an extra file but I'm guessing it involved meta data
Maybe I would have started programming earlier, if there were an abundance of free tools that were platform independed. Oh, and decent version controls.
I've been a programmer professionally for 17 years and it was my hobby since 2005.
Before 2005 I was already been studying for three years in university and my major was telecommunications programming. I had tried C and C++, but Java and using Eclipse changed everything.
I think netbeans has the same place in prime's heart that Python has in mine. It's important for us because it's what really threw us in the programming world, but God, we don't want to go back there ever
6:58 I agree.
For Christmas break I’m making a database project.
Is it for anyone else to use or find interesting? He’ll no.
Will it be highly derivative? You bet your ass.
Will be I be learning about deep optimization storage and retrieval techniques and what it takes to create a query language? I can hardly wait
Will I use it for anything? Guess we’ll see eh?
Either way, I don’t necessarily care, I’m making it for me and me alone. Like Minh Le and Jesse Cliffe, they made counter strike for themselves, they had no idea anyone else would give a shit about it, nevermind become a culturally defining phenomenon
The world would be better if we could dissociate copyleft licenses with free software.
Not following you. You can use any license you want.
I saw Linus at an early Linux Conference once where he had his baby daughter on his shoulder and he was chosing their food from the layed out smorgasboard.
Isn't OpenSearch a fork of Elasticsearch? Now it's governed by the Linux Foundation? That's actually good.
You can be really bad at everything, that is a skill very few have
vienna mentioned, lfg. nobody ever mentions us except
does linus just boldly stated his concern about open source codes getting more AI synthetic codes circulating into open sources, rather than genuine programmers? sorry my brain process this information differently.
We shared floppies with MASM and C compiler? It was pre-2000 and I was just a teen, we used QB45 and Pascal/Delphi!
All pirated from some BBS obviously.
Driking chimarrão?
You got good at blabbing now. Meaningful for me is pretty much any project ever. Then other people come along and say, heh, that's cool, let me borrow some of this.
I disagree with Linus in a positive way. Kernel 6.x has seen a multitude of compute optimizations for x86, ARM and RISC-V. It’s bee. 20yrs since we’ve seen this many CPU competitors too.
Am I crazy or is Prime drinking from the cup cut out every time
There was a video recording of the Q&A. You didn't have to read all that :(
Netbeans!
Completely random, but I've noticed that whenever the Primagen highlights a paragraph of text, he almost always skips highlighting the first and last characters in the paragraph. Is that intentional?
Eclipse was my netbeans but for c.
I really wanna see Prime’s wife
Curious how does she look like
still waiting for a foss CMC lathe...
it's still so hard to install visual c++ compiler. curse that compiler
Plural of Linus is Linui :P
zig? ALL YOUR BASE...
He don't read to good
Space Odyssey 2001
50% bait
I loved programming, but now after graduation I cannot find anything im interested in...
I feel like I lost my entire passion, and I also feel absolutely because theory heavy classes and tutorial hell of monke ctrl c, monkey ctrl c
If you can't be unique, then don't create a project. Instead, contribute to existing projects.
First! 🎉
You should create a foundation and allocate ~4% of the funding to do any real development work. The rest use it to buy influence and have a good time.