The Szell/Cleveland/CBS Schubert 9th is the first I ever heard, from a Great Performances cassette my dad bought for me when I was about 13. It's been a favorite for 40 years, and the Munch for about 30.
GREAT comments Dave ! You nail exactly the pitfalls (and my own pet peeves) that so many conductors fail to avoid: the needless repeats in the scherzo, the luftpause in the ‘waltz’ theme (Gardiner makes a meal of this, as if he wanted to show the WP that he, too, could be ‘viennese’ !). About Böhm and the 9th, he recorded it in Hamburg (NDR) in 1956 and I consider it simply perfect in all respects (except modern sound of course). And yes, in that Dresden performance the massive climax in the Andante does foreshadow the crushing dissonance of Bruckner 9th’s Adagio - impossible to miss. Munch is terrifically right throughout. Other superb performances: Suitner Berlin RSO, Sinopoli Dresden and Giulini Chicago.
Schubert’s Ninth has always been close to my heart, but I hadn’t been aware of Munch’s recording, which completely redefined this symphony for me. I can’t thank you enough for this ear-opening experience. How could the tempi - not just in the Scherzo - be otherwise?! The energy of this performance is absolutely extraordinary! William Forsythe used the final movement for a ballet entitled ‘The Vertiginous Thrill of Exactitude’. He must or should have had this recording at hand!
Toscanini did three that were wonderful. Perfect solution to tempi, especially the 1941 with Philadelphia. The Bernstein/Concertgebouw is wonderful also. Uneccentric and joyous.
@@katherineparadis-chateaune8004 I haven't run across that, and wouldn't have thought to look. He was known for being an uninspiring performer, even if a brilliant teacher. He'd grab Abbado, Mehta, et al after a Mahler 3 performance and say "Feel my shirt. Perfectly dry!"
I first heard this symphony in Toscanini's 1953 recording so I never had the problem with the work that some people seem to have judging from the comments here. It's almost my 2nd favorite symphony after the Eroica. I agree, 1941 PO is the best, that last mvt is astonishing. My only quibble is I do prefer the Andante a bit less con moto than he generally took it.
Agreed about Bernstein - fantastic, a shame there's no 1st movement repeat though. It just goes to show what an incredible breadth of understanding of many composers B was blessed with.
In the early seventies while studying at UT Austin I got my real classical music education listening to KMFA-fm's announcer and program director Leonard Masters. It was he who first introduced me to Schubert's 9th by playing the Szell/CO performance (the only Schubert symphony I knew then was #8), so I guess I was lucky and spoiled to hear a superlative performance and interpretation the very first time. I went on to buy the LP and it became the standard against which all other recordings of the work were measured. So nice to have it available on YT now.
Listened to Munch on your recommendation, definitely a barn-burner of a performance. Seemed to me like it was played with almost reckless abandon and huge enthusiasm, just loved it.
I bought Schubert’s 9th by Norrington when it was first released decades ago. Loved the composition, but I am blown away after borrowing the Munch BSO recording. Wow. An astounding performance.
Dave: loved your timpani story! I joined a large community orchestra ( on its way to becoming professional) as ass’t 1st trumpet when I was 17 and soon took over counting bars for the section. We had the same issues. We also had a fine timpani at who was department head of astronomy at the university. Our quite fine conductor who was also a little martinet who used to ride him unnecessarily. We always hated it. I wish I would have blurted out what you said. I would have been canned.Later I stood up to him when I was the only one who could play our toughest music. I appreciate your moxie!
I remember the first time I heard this symphony, in my mid-teens, at a friend’s house - possibly one of the Karajan recordings? He had a Boosey and Hawkes pocket score and reading along I was frankly astonished that I knew nothing of it (I’d heard the Unfinished and the 5th, which get all the attention). The answer became obvious when I inspected my dad’s record collection - Bruno Walter, so dependable with the Beethoven symphonies, had recorded an absolute lacklustre dud of a Great, which was why the piece had almost never been played while I was growing up. More than the other symphonies the conductor’s input is critical, because without them the ‘heavenly length’ (Schumann’s words) becomes a joyless, sterile desert. There are so many indifferent versions of this work! One other fascinating textural issue in the finale after figure N is where the winds carry the descending melody from high Gs downwards. The heavy brass often obliterate everything else at fff dynamics; so on an otherwise unremarkable version conducted on a budget label by Peter Maag, having the first flute ascend to a top C at the climax (bar 1101) was revelatory, since that is where the phrases are clearly heading, but Schubert has to use the lower C as his playable compass only reaches the top B; the high C carries, where on every other version the brass blow the woodwinds away. Again I think there are plenty of examples that the work would have benefitted from Schubert being able to hear it performed to adjust balances, but we have to be grateful that the work is so perfect as it is.
Interesting talk this. Some people loathe this symphony, other people love it. I personally think it's a great symphony. And, especially when you think it was written by a man that was younger than Beethoven when he wrote his first..
Thank you for mentioning Munch and BSO. His Beethoven 9 is also brilliant, Brahms 4 Wagner orchestral excerpts ect. He is somewhat forgotten now but I believe he will have a rival.
I'm so happy to hear your go-to excitement recording is Munch and the Boston Symphony Orchestra. Absolutely agree it's the one on steroids. Nothing else can match its freshness and verve. Gold standard for me as well.
I just recieved my copy of Szell/Cleveland and it is now my favorite of Schubert 9-- more than my Furtwangler and 2 different Blomstedts that were my own favorites. . Thanks for the recommendation!
Found my copy of Munch's 9th recorded in the '90s on a Maxell cassette - just as you announced their performance as one of your favs. Talk about serendipity! The recording is being transferred to an SSD M.2 main drive and then backed up to further immortalize the 'Franz Man'. To me, he is only 'second' to Mr. Bach and, of course, Josquin Desprez.
I have to say, I’ve never been a fan of Schubert’s symphonies. It’s strange really. He’s such a great melodist generally and sets up very interesting contrasts in his chamber music...a true genius. Yet, I’ve always has the sense that the symphony genre was somehow “too big” for him - if that even makes sense. Anyway, I gave the Munch recording of the 9th a listen...and my goodness! It was as if I’d never heard Schubert until then. Which just goes to show how important the conductors and their readings / conceptions are. Thank you for pointing that recording out!
I agree. Having played some of the string quartets and the quintet regularly I never felt compelled to listen to the 9th except for the rare live performance. I’ve listened to this Munch recording 12 -15 x the last two weeks and enjoyed every minute.
Love Mr. Hurwitz's recommendations about the best Schubert "Great" symphony! I have both Karl Böhm versions with BPO and Staatskapelle Dresden. For a long time, I felt the former one is slower and less exciting and preferred the latter one: a passionate live recording conducted by an 85-year-old maestro! But with age, now I feel the BPO version is nobler, more dignified, and more lyrical in some parts; to me, the interpretation is closer to the Furtwängler DG recording. The versions played by Cleveland & Szell (mentioned in the video) and LSO & Josef Krips (Decca, 1958) are also my favorite.
At first, I hated most of Schubert's music, in particular this "great" symphony. But, in the years, I changed my mind...one of the most intriguing performances of Schubert's 9th is James Levine with the glorious Chicago Symphony on DG...for me was revelatory. Now I'm an admirer of Schubert's music and in particular of this symphony :) as always a very interesting review!! Congratulations for your channel
One interesting performance is Gardiner with Vienna. Fortunately, he is more sensitive a musician than Norrington! The result is actually something like a combination of "period" attributes with something of the Furtwangler tradition..I was pleasantly surprised!:)
This is my all-time favourite performance on CD and great recorded sound too. There is a live performance from Gardiner/VPO, presumably recorded at the same time, on RUclips now and worth checking out.
Oh absolutely Szell had such a great vision for this difficult work. I found the interpretations on the CBS and EMI recordings to be virtually identical, and the EMI has *much* better sound. In fact I was struck by how close in interpretation the two recordings were -- Szell was a machine in his discipline and consistency. So the version in regular rotation for me is the EMI one, purely because of the clearer, warmer sound quality (it also came with some interesting couplings of early Colin Davis including a laser-guided William Tell Overture, and for the 8th I prefer Carlos Kleiber). I wonder, what led you to lean toward the CBS version? Perhaps your (obviously) superior critical ear heard differences between the interpretations that I missed.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Wow I just did a search, and you're right, the EMI recording is indeed hard to find now. what a shame. I didn't realize, I bought it like 15 years ago. P.S. it's amazing how dialed-in and responsive you are on these comments, even 3-year-old videos!
Hello David. Regarding the best Furtwangler performance, are you referring to the 1952 recording that has appeared on several DG couplings, either with music from Rosamunde or Haydn's Symphony 88? It is a fantastic performance! I ask, because there is also the performance in that box set that you held up, on the Wartime Recordings disc. I think that one is from 1943. As good as that one is, I have a preference for the later one (I also ask because you mention that the Furtwangler recommendation is a fairly late recording). Thank you!
Just to be honest, it was Roger Norrington's recordings that opened this piece to me, and even some of my older friends who liked lavish romanticism thought his recording to be fresh and compelling. I since have added one of Wand's fine recordings to my collection, but I think Norrington's approach makes me think of a youthful composer.
I just discovered a fantastic previously unreleased recording of Herbert Blomstedt with the Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks (Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra) on the label BR-Klassik that was released recently. The symphony is part of a 4 CD-box with the title "Schubert Die Liebe Liebt Das Wandern" (in fact a spoken biography with the symphony as a bonus). But the symphony itself is worth investing in this edition. The sound quality is fantastic and the brass instruments are the big star of this recording. The pace in each of the 4 parts feels comfortable. This is a very balanced and pleasant performance that is among the best of the dozens of recordings that I have already listened to. For many enthusiasts this recording could be a hidden gem.
Now I am curious to hear this. I have always loved his San Francisco recording. (Though I admit I heard some recording, maybe Mackereas, which seemed even better.)
Finally a recommendation for Szell. I rarely see him in your top picks, and I must have watched all your videos, but instead a lot of Munch. A good thing to see him up there. Looking forward to your full Schubert symphonies run down
A little after midnight, I heard a narrator of a Classical Music Station make a goof: "And now let's listen to the second movement from Schubert's 9th symphony, the great sea monster."
Thanks. What do you think of Josef Krips and LSO? It won the Rosette. I haven't been disappointed yet by a Rosette winner. PS -- Do you live in a soundproof home? Wondering how you get to blast hours of titanic symphonic music without going to war with neighbors. ;) I have that problem, hence have to resort to headphones which is never really the same, no matter how good the cans and amp.
@@323oge Giulini's performance is a bore.. I grew up with the Toscanini/Philadelphia 1941 performance, the Szell, Cleveland and the Krips, LSO. I found all superb. Toscanini is Toscanini not Schubert. For that give me Krips. However, however, if you must have Szell his later with on EMI is more human. The 1957 recording is excellent but seems to me rushed, calculated and "virtuosic" I don't hear Schubert's soul. Bohm Dresden: agreed. Superb
To all lovers of this wonderful piece of music, I recommend reading Robert Schumann’s brief essay on it, which can be found in his collection “Schumann on Music” (Dover publications, hence bargain)
Dave. I am just listening to your video of the Schubert ninth so I am commenting very late but I have a question for you. And that is at the final bars of the fourth movement some conductors take a diminuendo to end and then most ignore it. I have discussed this with recorded conductors one told me that he inspected the actual score deposited in Vienna and that there is dimenuendo accent in schberts hand in the score. So in your opinion should conductors take the diminuendo or not?
Whether or not it is a diminuendo is very controversial. Schubert's accents often look just like diminuendo marks. The ending of this symphony is definitely NOT a diminuendo. The coda is working itself up to a huge, c-major climax, and frankly only an idiot could possibly believe that Schubert intended anything other than a sustained fortissimo. I just can't believe how unmusical these supposed "professionals" are. It frankly disgusts me. The context couldn't possibly make his intentions more obvious.
Just sat through the Cleveland Orchestra's Carnegie Hall 9th under Welser-Most and completely see what you mean about the repeats! (Though I'm a sucker for the Dvorak-like theme in the 3rd Movt and don't mind hearing that a few more times - that bit I thought they did well last night) But, goodness, having heard Munch just now it all seemed loud and heavy in the concert (surely the second movt. needs more elegance?) and that wasn't the orchestra I don't think. Never heard the Cleveland live until this. They are pretty fabulous and I love the Carnegie acoustics - especially way upstairs. You have some serious bands here in the USA!
My choice is Sir Charles Groves with The English Sinfonia on IMP ( aka Pickwick ). Modern digital recording at a budget price. I had the good fortune of seeing Sir Charles conduct in person, both with that Orchestra and The Philharmonia Orchestra in the late 1980's.
Munch's Schubert 9 was the first version I heard. Makes it hard to appreciate others. Skrowaczewski on Mercury is the only other version I actually like.
Can't argue with any of those choices. The Munch is a sleeper. The Furtwaengler is a great interpretation (and I hate the word, "interpretation"). Another sleeper is the Bernstein/Concertgebouw one - definitely one of the better recordings from his late period. Sawallisch/Dresden is good too. A personal favorite for me is the Konwitschny/Leipzig Gewandhuas one, which is now difficult to find. His scherzo is almost the opposite of Munch's. It's on the slow side, but 'boy' does it swing. Granted, the sound is a tad old and grotty. Good stuff. For me, 'yes' on the exposition repeat, but an emphatic 'no' for the scherzo and finale repeats. All that said, I actually like Schubert's 'little C-major' (#6) even more. However, that's irrelevant here.
I am not aware of another symphony in the standard repertoire that demands to be played with (seemingly) reckless abandon. Munch definitely gets it, but the Toscanini/NBC performance seems to be the one that set the mold. The Andante is a little too “con moto” for my taste, but it’s such a blisteringly good rendition one hardly cares.
Hey everyone! I am a fairly new and excited classical music listener, due largely to this fabulous RUclips channel. I have a relative who has tickets to Schubert’s 9th - March 10th with M T Thomas at The NY Phil. Any thoughts? Advice? What should I look for in his version? Ty in advance! I learn every time I view a video on this channel.
Just sit back and listen. Tilson Thomas isn't known for his Schubert--hopefully he will keep it fresh and slowing, but if you don't know the work it's hard to tell what he is doing as opposed to what anyone else would do, or what some theoretical "ideal" is. So just enjoy. It's gorgeous.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you for your words, Dave. I have 6 of the versions you recommended on an Amazon playlist. I am just going to cycle through those from now till the performance. Thanks again! “Keep listening!”
I hate those conductors who observe a diminuendo on the last chord. The symphony is a long journey and I like it end decisively- Blomsedt in his SFSO version on Decca provides a resounding end. As for the scherzo Ormandy gets thru it in 9 minutes without all those repeats.Probably my favourite recording is Abbado in his first account with the COE.
I already know Dave doesn't like period instrument performances, but the good old Charles Mackerras made a stunning fresh recording with the orchestra of the age of enlightenment of this symphony you should hear once at least.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Do you know Mackerras' performance with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra, Dave? As you seem to really rate him as a conductor, I thought this performance may have been mentioned in your survey? Personally, I love it. 🙂
In the mid-1970s I listened to a radio broadcast of an elementary schools concert by the Detroit Symphony. Antsl Dorati was the chief conductor at the time; but the Orchestra was led by an assistant conductor. The concert began with the featured work, the first movement of the Schubert Ninth. The performance was bedlam: the children completely ignored the music, preferring to chat and hollar. The conductor stopped the Orchestra several times, pleading with teachers to make the kids behave. Finally, he threatened to cancel the concert if the kids wouldn't shut up. At that point, I switched the radio off, too uncomfortable to listen further. I'm sure there was a lesson here; but d*mned if I know what it was.
@@DavesClassicalGuide or that opening a childrens concert with the first movement of Schubert's 9th without an explanation is bad programming. You wouldn't open a modern subscription concert with Schubert's 9th so why expect children to digest it without explanation? If you're going to open with a movement, the last movement of the 9th would probably get the kids standing at attention. Plus interaction between conductor and audience is crucial to those children's concerts. The assistant conductor probably didn't know how to talk to kids...I've seen that todisasterous effect.
The Dohnanyi/Cleveland "Great" would have eclipsed the Szell/Cleveland, only if Dohnanyi's tempo in the final movement didn't drift "out-of-control" fast, about two-thirds of the way through it...... Dohnanyi's third movement, with the exquisite "singing" of the winds in the Trio section, makes the performance worth it, on that alone.
Back in my student days I wanted a recording of this piece, and being on a budget I got the Carl Schuricht/SDR Symphony of Stuttgart version on Vanguard, which still gives pleasure today. It’s free of the tiresome repeats and the diminuendo on the last chord. Also what I find interesting about it is the very end of the first movement, the last five bars or so. Most conductors I’ve heard take an unwritten ritardando here, but Schuricht drives right through, absolutely a tempo, and it’s quite different and exciting.
I remember getting a Giulini DG recording of this and it was a snooze that really put me off this symphony for years. I think he did it with the VPO around the same time he did his wonderful recordings of the Bruckner 7-9. This mystified me because I think Schubert's Great must have helped Bruckner shake off Beethoven and develop his own symphonic language. I guess Giulini didn't divine the continuity! I've also sat through a couple of live performances that did nothing to make me see the light. Now I have John Eliot Gardiner's version (also on DG), which moves at a nice pace and really keeps the flow going. Will definitely try at least the Szell though because I have yet to be completely blown away by this symphony so I'm in search of a performance that will unlock its magic. It's a shame Jochum never did this symphony, because he was the one who got me going with Bruckner.
I’ve never liked it. It may be because a friend at uni had a recording which she played persistently. I found it prosaic, heavy, boring. I now think this may just be the fault of the recording, because I love everything else Schubert wrote. I do have the lovely Bomstadt box, so may grit my teeth and give it another go.
The Szell/Cleveland/CBS Schubert 9th is the first I ever heard, from a Great Performances cassette my dad bought for me when I was about 13. It's been a favorite for 40 years, and the Munch for about 30.
The Furtwangler performance sounds (in a good way) like he's making it up as he goes. That's what Furtwangler was all about.
When I was 15 my brother bought the Munch recording. I immediately fell in love with it and have never preferred any other since.
I'm so glad you recommended a Furtwaengler recording!
You gotta have both.
They are both great, and so much fun jumping between them.
GREAT comments Dave ! You nail exactly the pitfalls (and my own pet peeves) that so many conductors fail to avoid: the needless repeats in the scherzo, the luftpause in the ‘waltz’ theme (Gardiner makes a meal of this, as if he wanted to show the WP that he, too, could be ‘viennese’ !). About Böhm and the 9th, he recorded it in Hamburg (NDR) in 1956 and I consider it simply perfect in all respects (except modern sound of course). And yes, in that Dresden performance the massive climax in the Andante does foreshadow the crushing dissonance of Bruckner 9th’s Adagio - impossible to miss. Munch is terrifically right throughout. Other superb performances: Suitner Berlin RSO, Sinopoli Dresden and Giulini Chicago.
Giulini/Chicago is interminable, but his later recording for Sony (with fewer repeats) is much better.
Schubert’s Ninth has always been close to my heart, but I hadn’t been aware of Munch’s recording, which completely redefined this symphony for me. I can’t thank you enough for this ear-opening experience. How could the tempi - not just in the Scherzo - be otherwise?! The energy of this performance is absolutely extraordinary! William Forsythe used the final movement for a ballet entitled ‘The Vertiginous Thrill of Exactitude’. He must or should have had this recording at hand!
Toscanini did three that were wonderful. Perfect solution to tempi, especially the 1941 with Philadelphia. The Bernstein/Concertgebouw is wonderful also. Uneccentric and joyous.
Listening to the RCA Gold Seal 1941 Toscanini now! Brilliant.
SWAROWSKY
@@katherineparadis-chateaune8004 I haven't run across that, and wouldn't have thought to look. He was known for being an uninspiring performer, even if a brilliant teacher. He'd grab Abbado, Mehta, et al after a Mahler 3 performance and say "Feel my shirt. Perfectly dry!"
I first heard this symphony in Toscanini's 1953 recording so I never had the problem with the work that some people seem to have judging from the comments here. It's almost my 2nd favorite symphony after the Eroica. I agree, 1941 PO is the best, that last mvt is astonishing. My only quibble is I do prefer the Andante a bit less con moto than he generally took it.
Agreed about Bernstein - fantastic, a shame there's no 1st movement repeat though. It just goes to show what an incredible breadth of understanding of many composers B was blessed with.
Furtwangler for me.
In the early seventies while studying at UT Austin I got my real classical music education listening to KMFA-fm's announcer and program director Leonard Masters. It was he who first introduced me to Schubert's 9th by playing the Szell/CO performance (the only Schubert symphony I knew then was #8), so I guess I was lucky and spoiled to hear a superlative performance and interpretation the very first time. I went on to buy the LP and it became the standard against which all other recordings of the work were measured. So nice to have it available on YT now.
Listened to Munch on your recommendation, definitely a barn-burner of a performance. Seemed to me like it was played with almost reckless abandon and huge enthusiasm, just loved it.
Love all those mentioned. Muti in Vienna is my other go to.
Szell/Cleveland is my all time favorite and I have a very rare japanese Sony copy. Mark Lifshey's playing is the best!
Yes, the Japanese SONY version is a superb transfer.
I bought Schubert’s 9th by Norrington when it was first released decades ago. Loved the composition, but I am blown away after borrowing the Munch BSO recording. Wow. An astounding performance.
Dave: loved your timpani story! I joined a large community orchestra ( on its way to becoming professional) as ass’t 1st trumpet when I was 17 and soon took over counting bars for the section. We had the same issues. We also had a fine timpani at who was department head of astronomy at the university. Our quite fine conductor who was also a little martinet who used to ride him unnecessarily. We always hated it. I wish I would have blurted out what you said. I would have been canned.Later I stood up to him when I was the only one who could play our toughest music. I appreciate your moxie!
I remember the first time I heard this symphony, in my mid-teens, at a friend’s house - possibly one of the Karajan recordings? He had a Boosey and Hawkes pocket score and reading along I was frankly astonished that I knew nothing of it (I’d heard the Unfinished and the 5th, which get all the attention). The answer became obvious when I inspected my dad’s record collection - Bruno Walter, so dependable with the Beethoven symphonies, had recorded an absolute lacklustre dud of a Great, which was why the piece had almost never been played while I was growing up.
More than the other symphonies the conductor’s input is critical, because without them the ‘heavenly length’ (Schumann’s words) becomes a joyless, sterile desert. There are so many indifferent versions of this work!
One other fascinating textural issue in the finale after figure N is where the winds carry the descending melody from high Gs downwards. The heavy brass often obliterate everything else at fff dynamics; so on an otherwise unremarkable version conducted on a budget label by Peter Maag, having the first flute ascend to a top C at the climax (bar 1101) was revelatory, since that is where the phrases are clearly heading, but Schubert has to use the lower C as his playable compass only reaches the top B; the high C carries, where on every other version the brass blow the woodwinds away. Again I think there are plenty of examples that the work would have benefitted from Schubert being able to hear it performed to adjust balances, but we have to be grateful that the work is so perfect as it is.
Interesting talk this. Some people loathe this symphony, other people love it. I personally think it's a great symphony. And, especially when you think it was written by a man that was younger than Beethoven when he wrote his first..
Thank you for mentioning Munch and BSO. His Beethoven 9 is also brilliant, Brahms 4 Wagner orchestral excerpts ect. He is somewhat forgotten now but I believe he will have a rival.
Masur/Leipzig Gewandhaus. My first ever CD given to me by my piano teacher as a bar mitzvah gift!
I'm so happy to hear your go-to excitement recording is Munch and the Boston Symphony Orchestra. Absolutely agree it's the one on steroids. Nothing else can match its freshness and verve. Gold standard for me as well.
I just recieved my copy of Szell/Cleveland and it is now my favorite of Schubert 9-- more than my Furtwangler and 2 different Blomstedts that were my own favorites. . Thanks for the recommendation!
You're very welcome.
Found my copy of Munch's 9th recorded in the '90s on a Maxell cassette - just as you announced their performance as one of your favs. Talk about serendipity! The recording is being transferred to an SSD M.2 main drive and then backed up to further immortalize the 'Franz Man'. To me, he is only 'second' to Mr. Bach and, of course, Josquin Desprez.
Of course!
I have to say, I’ve never been a fan of Schubert’s symphonies. It’s strange really. He’s such a great melodist generally and sets up very interesting contrasts in his chamber music...a true genius. Yet, I’ve always has the sense that the symphony genre was somehow “too big” for him - if that even makes sense. Anyway, I gave the Munch recording of the 9th a listen...and my goodness! It was as if I’d never heard Schubert until then. Which just goes to show how important the conductors and their readings / conceptions are. Thank you for pointing that recording out!
I'm so glad that it "clicked" for you.
I agree. Having played some of the string quartets and the quintet regularly I never felt compelled to listen to the 9th except for the rare live performance. I’ve listened to this Munch recording 12 -15 x the last two weeks and enjoyed every minute.
My favorite is not an audio recording but a video: Sawallisch and the Vienna Philharmonic. It is so finely played - extraordinary!!
Love Mr. Hurwitz's recommendations about the best Schubert "Great" symphony! I have both Karl Böhm versions with BPO and Staatskapelle Dresden. For a long time, I felt the former one is slower and less exciting and preferred the latter one: a passionate live recording conducted by an 85-year-old maestro! But with age, now I feel the BPO version is nobler, more dignified, and more lyrical in some parts; to me, the interpretation is closer to the Furtwängler DG recording. The versions played by Cleveland & Szell (mentioned in the video) and LSO & Josef Krips (Decca, 1958) are also my favorite.
At first, I hated most of Schubert's music, in particular this "great" symphony. But, in the years, I changed my mind...one of the most intriguing performances of Schubert's 9th is James Levine with the glorious Chicago Symphony on DG...for me was revelatory. Now I'm an admirer of Schubert's music and in particular of this symphony :) as always a very interesting review!! Congratulations for your channel
how can someone hate Schubert's music? At least you came around to it.
One interesting performance is Gardiner with Vienna. Fortunately, he is more sensitive a musician than Norrington! The result is actually something like a combination of "period" attributes with something of the Furtwangler tradition..I was pleasantly surprised!:)
This is my all-time favourite performance on CD and great recorded sound too. There is a live performance from Gardiner/VPO, presumably recorded at the same time, on RUclips now and worth checking out.
Oh absolutely Szell had such a great vision for this difficult work. I found the interpretations on the CBS and EMI recordings to be virtually identical, and the EMI has *much* better sound. In fact I was struck by how close in interpretation the two recordings were -- Szell was a machine in his discipline and consistency. So the version in regular rotation for me is the EMI one, purely because of the clearer, warmer sound quality (it also came with some interesting couplings of early Colin Davis including a laser-guided William Tell Overture, and for the 8th I prefer Carlos Kleiber). I wonder, what led you to lean toward the CBS version? Perhaps your (obviously) superior critical ear heard differences between the interpretations that I missed.
No, my ear isn't obviously superior. I just liked the coupling and it was easier to find.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Wow I just did a search, and you're right, the EMI recording is indeed hard to find now. what a shame. I didn't realize, I bought it like 15 years ago. P.S. it's amazing how dialed-in and responsive you are on these comments, even 3-year-old videos!
Hello David. Regarding the best Furtwangler performance, are you referring to the 1952 recording that has appeared on several DG couplings, either with music from Rosamunde or Haydn's Symphony 88? It is a fantastic performance! I ask, because there is also the performance in that box set that you held up, on the Wartime Recordings disc. I think that one is from 1943. As good as that one is, I have a preference for the later one (I also ask because you mention that the Furtwangler recommendation is a fairly late recording). Thank you!
The later one.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Many thanks. It's in my top 3 for Schubert 9, along with Krips/LSO and Vegh!
Just to be honest, it was Roger Norrington's recordings that opened this piece to me, and even some of my older friends who liked lavish romanticism thought his recording to be fresh and compelling. I since have added one of Wand's fine recordings to my collection, but I think Norrington's approach makes me think of a youthful composer.
Good thing that Szell-Cleveland is the one chosen by Jakob Spindler with the score along on his YT channel.
Thomas Schippers with Cinncinati Symphony in Vox, is one if my favorite with Munch y Szell!!!
I just discovered a fantastic previously unreleased recording of Herbert Blomstedt with the Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks (Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra) on the label BR-Klassik that was released recently. The symphony is part of a 4 CD-box with the title "Schubert Die Liebe Liebt Das Wandern" (in fact a spoken biography with the symphony as a bonus).
But the symphony itself is worth investing in this edition. The sound quality is fantastic and the brass instruments are the big star of this recording. The pace in each of the 4 parts feels comfortable. This is a very balanced and pleasant performance that is among the best of the dozens of recordings that I have already listened to.
For many enthusiasts this recording could be a hidden gem.
Now I am curious to hear this. I have always loved his San Francisco recording. (Though I admit I heard some recording, maybe Mackereas, which seemed even better.)
Have you also seen a new recording by Blomstedt and the gewandhausorchester?
Finally a recommendation for Szell. I rarely see him in your top picks, and I must have watched all your videos, but instead a lot of Munch. A good thing to see him up there. Looking forward to your full Schubert symphonies run down
Have you seen my Beethoven videos? Mozart? Haydn? Kodaly? Dvorak? Smetana? Szell is all over those.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, as you said, "What can be better than a box of Szell !"
Great video! I love your top 3. My suggestion is Suitner with the Berlin Staatskapelle :)
Yes...Can you do a Suitner video?
A little after midnight, I heard a narrator of a Classical Music Station make a goof: "And now let's listen to the second movement from Schubert's 9th symphony, the great sea monster."
Thanks. What do you think of Josef Krips and LSO? It won the Rosette. I haven't been disappointed yet by a Rosette winner.
PS -- Do you live in a soundproof home? Wondering how you get to blast hours of titanic symphonic music without going to war with neighbors. ;) I have that problem, hence have to resort to headphones which is never really the same, no matter how good the cans and amp.
Check the comments for a discussion of Krips. No, I don't live in a soundproof home, but I don't play music at excessive volume.
Knappertsbusch Vienna Philharmonic 1957 on DG. To not give a damn.
I totally agree with you
Found the Vegh set on Google Play. Many thanks for the recommendation.
Hope you enjoy it!
Autoeroticism! Lucky I wasn't drinking coffee when you came out with that one. I would have spat it out all over the screen, no kidding.
How about the recording of CSO conducted by Giulini ?
Boring. If you want Giulini in that work, go for his later Sony recording with Bavarian Radio.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you for your kindness.☺
@@323oge Giulini's performance is a bore.. I grew up with the Toscanini/Philadelphia 1941 performance, the Szell, Cleveland and the Krips, LSO. I found all superb. Toscanini is Toscanini not Schubert. For that give me Krips. However, however, if you must have Szell his later with on EMI is more human. The 1957 recording is excellent but seems to me rushed, calculated and "virtuosic" I don't hear Schubert's soul. Bohm Dresden: agreed. Superb
To all lovers of this wonderful piece of music, I recommend reading Robert Schumann’s brief essay on it, which can be found in his collection “Schumann on Music” (Dover publications, hence bargain)
What about Günter Wand with the Berliner Philharmoniker?
Probably my favorite!
Do you script these or is it ad lib? So enjoying these reviews!
Both--I outline to get my ideas in order and then just talk--sometimes they stay in order, and sometimes they don't! Thanks very much either way.
I agree that Günter Wand made his best recording with the NDR Symphony Orchestra.
Dave. I am just listening to your video of the Schubert ninth so I am commenting very late but I have a question for you. And that is at the final bars of the fourth movement some conductors take a diminuendo to end and then most ignore it. I have discussed this with recorded conductors one told me that he inspected the actual score deposited in Vienna and that there is dimenuendo accent in schberts hand in the score. So in your opinion should conductors take the diminuendo or not?
Whether or not it is a diminuendo is very controversial. Schubert's accents often look just like diminuendo marks. The ending of this symphony is definitely NOT a diminuendo. The coda is working itself up to a huge, c-major climax, and frankly only an idiot could possibly believe that Schubert intended anything other than a sustained fortissimo. I just can't believe how unmusical these supposed "professionals" are. It frankly disgusts me. The context couldn't possibly make his intentions more obvious.
you know d’Avalos / Philharmonia orchestra?
We've only met once or twice.
Just sat through the Cleveland Orchestra's Carnegie Hall 9th under Welser-Most and completely see what you mean about the repeats! (Though I'm a sucker for the Dvorak-like theme in the 3rd Movt and don't mind hearing that a few more times - that bit I thought they did well last night) But, goodness, having heard Munch just now it all seemed loud and heavy in the concert (surely the second movt. needs more elegance?) and that wasn't the orchestra I don't think. Never heard the Cleveland live until this. They are pretty fabulous and I love the Carnegie acoustics - especially way upstairs. You have some serious bands here in the USA!
My choice is Sir Charles Groves with The English Sinfonia on IMP ( aka Pickwick ). Modern digital recording at a budget price.
I had the good fortune of seeing Sir Charles conduct in person, both with that Orchestra and The Philharmonia Orchestra in the late 1980's.
I have the same set, they are very good performances
Munch's Schubert 9 was the first version I heard. Makes it hard to appreciate others. Skrowaczewski on Mercury is the only other version I actually like.
Can't argue with any of those choices. The Munch is a sleeper. The Furtwaengler is a great interpretation (and I hate the word, "interpretation"). Another sleeper is the Bernstein/Concertgebouw one - definitely one of the better recordings from his late period. Sawallisch/Dresden is good too. A personal favorite for me is the Konwitschny/Leipzig Gewandhuas one, which is now difficult to find. His scherzo is almost the opposite of Munch's. It's on the slow side, but 'boy' does it swing. Granted, the sound is a tad old and grotty. Good stuff. For me, 'yes' on the exposition repeat, but an emphatic 'no' for the scherzo and finale repeats. All that said, I actually like Schubert's 'little C-major' (#6) even more. However, that's irrelevant here.
Don't forget Bohm's 1979 Dresden performance !
I always disliked the finale as pushy, but Munch really keeps it more light-footed. Great performance indeed!
I am not aware of another symphony in the standard repertoire that demands to be played with (seemingly) reckless abandon. Munch definitely gets it, but the Toscanini/NBC performance seems to be the one that set the mold. The Andante is a little too “con moto” for my taste, but it’s such a blisteringly good rendition one hardly cares.
Hey everyone! I am a fairly new and excited classical music listener, due largely to this fabulous RUclips channel. I have a relative who has tickets to Schubert’s 9th - March 10th with M T Thomas at The NY Phil. Any thoughts? Advice? What should I look for in his version? Ty in advance! I learn every time I view a video on this channel.
Just sit back and listen. Tilson Thomas isn't known for his Schubert--hopefully he will keep it fresh and slowing, but if you don't know the work it's hard to tell what he is doing as opposed to what anyone else would do, or what some theoretical "ideal" is. So just enjoy. It's gorgeous.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you for your words, Dave. I have 6 of the versions you recommended on an Amazon playlist. I am just going to cycle through those from now till the performance. Thanks again! “Keep listening!”
Has no one heard Boult on EMI?
Of course we have. It just could be that no one cares about Boult on EMI.
Coincidently, the top 2 performances are from 2 american orchestras
Nobody mentioning Muti? He kicks some big A with Schuberts fantastic GREAT symphony no 9.
Have a look at my video on Schubert symphony cycles.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I just did. Thank you so much for this!
I hate those conductors who observe a diminuendo on the last chord. The symphony is a long journey and I like it end decisively- Blomsedt in his SFSO version on Decca provides a resounding end. As for the scherzo Ormandy gets thru it in 9 minutes without all those repeats.Probably my favourite recording is Abbado in his first account with the COE.
The diminuendo is demonstrably wrong (Solti!). Happily, that fad seems to have largely ended.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes exactly; the same with the last note of the Quintet in C..
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank God!
I already know Dave doesn't like period instrument performances, but the good old Charles Mackerras made a stunning fresh recording with the orchestra of the age of enlightenment of this symphony you should hear once at least.
I have it. It's very nice. I don't dislike period instrument performance. I dislike bad performances on period instruments.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Do you know Mackerras' performance with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra, Dave? As you seem to really rate him as a conductor, I thought this performance may have been mentioned in your survey? Personally, I love it. 🙂
In the mid-1970s I listened to a radio broadcast of an elementary schools concert by the Detroit Symphony. Antsl Dorati was the chief conductor at the time; but the Orchestra was led by an assistant conductor. The concert began with the featured work, the first movement of the Schubert Ninth. The performance was bedlam: the children completely ignored the music, preferring to chat and hollar. The conductor stopped the Orchestra several times, pleading with teachers to make the kids behave. Finally, he threatened to cancel the concert if the kids wouldn't shut up. At that point, I switched the radio off, too uncomfortable to listen further. I'm sure there was a lesson here; but d*mned if I know what it was.
The lesson is that kids will be kids.
@@DavesClassicalGuide or that opening a childrens concert with the first movement of Schubert's 9th without an explanation is bad programming. You wouldn't open a modern subscription concert with Schubert's 9th so why expect children to digest it without explanation? If you're going to open with a movement, the last movement of the 9th would probably get the kids standing at attention. Plus interaction between conductor and audience is crucial to those children's concerts. The assistant conductor probably didn't know how to talk to kids...I've seen that todisasterous effect.
My favorite one is that by Josef Krips with the London Symphony.
I have a special affection for it. He lets it breathe. The final movement brings tears to my eyes. It just sings along…
The Dohnanyi/Cleveland "Great" would have eclipsed the Szell/Cleveland, only if Dohnanyi's tempo in the final movement didn't drift "out-of-control" fast, about two-thirds of the way through it...... Dohnanyi's third movement, with the exquisite "singing" of the winds in the Trio section, makes the performance worth it, on that alone.
Right Dave, in this case, Szell rules here- as so often. Also his ... wait for it..Schumann.
I really love Gunter Wand live
Don't we all?
Back in my student days I wanted a recording of this piece, and being on a budget I got the Carl Schuricht/SDR Symphony of Stuttgart version on Vanguard, which still gives pleasure today. It’s free of the tiresome repeats and the diminuendo on the last chord. Also what I find interesting about it is the very end of the first movement, the last five bars or so. Most conductors I’ve heard take an unwritten ritardando here, but Schuricht drives right through, absolutely a tempo, and it’s quite different and exciting.
I remember getting a Giulini DG recording of this and it was a snooze that really put me off this symphony for years. I think he did it with the VPO around the same time he did his wonderful recordings of the Bruckner 7-9. This mystified me because I think Schubert's Great must have helped Bruckner shake off Beethoven and develop his own symphonic language. I guess Giulini didn't divine the continuity! I've also sat through a couple of live performances that did nothing to make me see the light. Now I have John Eliot Gardiner's version (also on DG), which moves at a nice pace and really keeps the flow going. Will definitely try at least the Szell though because I have yet to be completely blown away by this symphony so I'm in search of a performance that will unlock its magic. It's a shame Jochum never did this symphony, because he was the one who got me going with Bruckner.
The dull Giulini recording was made in Chicago. Jochum did record the Ninth. Try Szell or Munch.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Oops, sloppy me! Thx for the response.
What eold we do without little old ladies? Do they still exist? 😷
If it was the seventh symphony he wrote so why call it the 9th?
Because the chronology is all screwed up.
I have piles of different Schubert 9ths.
Got Vegh?
@@katherineparadis-chateaune8004 , I don't. But I wish I did.
very funny anecdote sir
'number 9' The Beatles agree
Карл Бём лучший исполнитель симфоний Шуберта. И 9-ой.
I don't know if he's the best, but he's very good!
I’ve never liked it. It may be because a friend at uni had a recording which she played persistently. I found it prosaic, heavy, boring. I now think this may just be the fault of the recording, because I love everything else Schubert wrote. I do have the lovely Bomstadt box, so may grit my teeth and give it another go.
You can't love everything. The right version may do the trick, but I wouldn't worry about it.
Istvan Kertesz and Viena Philarmonic Orchestra is the best
Szell.magnifico.comunque la grande è solo il primo movimento.gli altri sono ossessione ritmica.