I'm not sure I've seen a more intense space battle. They were seriously outgunned against an enemy they didn't expect. Whitestars were getting blasted like they were mere fighters. The tension was in the music and the camera angles. Ivanova would've died if it weren't for Marcus' sacrifice.
I'd forgotten how much clever flying there was in the mix there, particularly when they 180 to focus fire on the destroyer. Had Ivanova not kept them moving they could have been toast,
@@joncn005 Because the Vorlon tech was seamlessly integrated into the White Stars. All that Shadow tech on those Omega Destroyers was "Hey let's slap this on and hope that it works and doesn't immediately kill the crew."
Also while they were tougher AND had slightly advanced firing systems they were still up essentially against a fleet a VERY manuverable Corvette/Destroyers whose space frames were build from the ground up with advanced tech.
It was more likely a trade off for earths telepaths to be the central processing unit to defend against foreign telepaths halting their ships (like when the shadows eradicated Narn telepaths) for their technology
imagine in the middle of ivanova's big speach at 3.00 , the comms oficer says " ah, captain, the coms were still off just now but its back up, ao can you take from the top with the " death incarnate thing?"
I like how they went extra hard on these ships because of the shadow tech. No mercy, no chance for surrender, not letting them fire first Considering how easily they were dealt with, one has to wonder what was so advanced about them anyway.
The main reason Ivanova went extra hard was because the Shadow destroyer force was tasked with hunting down the standard Earth Force destroyers on the rebel side who would have stood little chance against them. The White Stars were designed specifically to take on real Shadow vessels in the first place and had far better speed and maneuverability. The White Star fleet were therefore a good match up against the Shadow destroyers, and Ivanova pressed her advantage to have every last one of them destroyed to prevent future casualties.
I wouldn't say 'easily'. It was a tough battle that could have gone wrong for Ivanova's side. Sure, those destroyers were no Shadow vessels, but they were thougher than ordinary destroyers. Notice that 2:58, even though the White Star unloads all it has on the enemy, it doesn't even leave a scratch, where against the ordinary destroyers in previous it set them on fire. Also, because Ivanova knew these guys wouldn't defect nor surrender, she went for the kill right from the get go.
... No one doesn't have to wonder what was so advanced about them if one watches the whole video it starts with a battle against non-advanced Omegas and extremely clearly shows how much less powerful and durable they are...
It's basically like the federation reverse engineering a Borg cube and plating the enterprise with it. Won't make the enterprise invincible, especially against ships made specifically for killing Borg (defiant class)
This looks like the HBO version thats so far the best.. its easy to identify because its 4:3 aspect ratio.. thats the best that can be done as the series was done in 4:3 and there is not 16:9 master or version.. any 16:9 was done croping from the 4:3 so when stretched it looks even worst.. i prefer the HBO 4:3 version.. its the one that looks nicer and you dont miss anything as the original was 4:3 too. Sadly making a proper HD version would imply redoing the entire series CGI and composite shots from scratch .. considering the finantial failure that Star Trek TNG HD remaster was i cant see WB risking millions in a proper B5 remaster in widescreen
I would like to point out, these EARTH made vessels with Shadow Tech took more to kill than a real shadow vessel earlier in the season, and even the Drahk, who were using tech just under the shadows themselves could barely go one on one with a White Star, despite being bigger than these things were. Says something about Earth made stuff in this universe. We build to last...even when dealing with materials made from the nightmares of orphans.
It's a nice thing that the advanced destroyer group waited until Ivanova had finished her speach and they even let Ivanova to have the first shot. Also nice that they only used one cannon per ship so that the Whitestars could dodge their fire.
The captain obviously held his fire to convince the white star fleet to surrender. Dur. The omega destroyers we're built in about...5 minutes. They were prototypes, armed with the exact same array as their warlock destroyer counterpart. They were made as a last ditch effort because the white star fleet was cutting through earth force like butter. Dur. Did you not even watch the show?
@@We_Are_Borg_478 omega-xs had nothing in common with the warlock weaponwise. They used light molecular slicers, outdated shadow weapons reverse engineered from Mars, warlock had no shadow weapons. Whitestar fleet was largely depleted by the time of earth's battle. This doesn't mean that they are less capable than omegas. Just that Sheridan and ivanova usually started their fights by holding back, and a majority of EF ships lol-nop'd out of the war, staying away from it by surrendering or abandoning their positions. Imagine if about 70% of a country's entire military abandoned its deployment patterns and present orders, while a guerilla faction is heading for its capital. B5wars has more details.
It is not necessarily a question of “letting” an enemy fire first. There are also issues of targeting and range. Before you can shoot at something they have to get into your weapons range and you also have to get a target lock on them. The White stars would be actively maneuvering on approach while Ivanona was speaking. We know the White Stars have a longer weapons range than the regular Omegas. The weapons range and targeting abilities of the Omega-X’s are unclear, but they may still be less than those of the White Stars, since the White Stars are Vorlon + Minbari tech while the Omega-X’s are Shadow + Human tech, and while Vorlon and Shadow tech are probably equivalent, Minbari tech is still superior to Human tech at this point in the series timeline. And if they were equal, or even if the Omega-X’s were slightly superior, the smaller size and greater maneuverability of the White Stars means they are more likely going to get target lock on the bigger slower Omega-X’s first, and get to fire first.
@@ComradeOgilvy1984 Just let him ignore the facts he can see with his own eyes and shape reality so it fits his narrow world view so he can feel important. 90% of the comments are like those from the last couple of years. "We" the 1982 1984 generation have to endure this Facebook/Fortnite idiotic generation until our kids take over and hopefully do better.
@@IIISentorIII They are not wrong. Plot armor went a long way on these space battles on this and other series. Weapons that could destroy a small moon suddenly could not penetrate a non reinforced and non shielded hull and vice versa ships that could survive a star exploding get detroyed by a small rock. And of course, like these destroyers who theoretically have trained crews, some develop a case of stormtrooper aim.
@@JOESMITH-qs8ue So you, too, believe that making a generic complaint is a useful contribution to a discussion, even if nothing you say is relevant to the series being discussed?
I count 3 of them destroyed in this clip and just after this clip ends Ivanova's WhiteStar is going to get destroyed too, fatally wounding Ivanova. So if WhiteStars plot armour is incredible, Advanced Omega Destroyers have darn good anti-plot-armor weapon systems
I wish they would have given those shadow destroyers more credit than they gave them they were shadow vessels for crying out loud!!! I understand the white stars were strong but come on pfft
I'm kind of surprised the fighters seem to get a whitestar or 2. I'd have thought their shielding and armour would protect against fighter level weaponry.
Heard there was a (unofficial?) novel about Marcus getting awoken decades after Ivanova's death. After being absolutely miserable for a while, he pulls himself together and decides he and Susan deserves a decent retirement. Using his remaining contacts, he steals a sample of Ivanova's DNA and has a perfect clone of her created with memories up to the point were she was injured. He then arranges for them to be marooned on a out of the way paradise world, then wakes the Ivanova clone and tells her that they crashed on the planet after the battle and that they had no means to return to space or call for help (but had all the tools to live in relative comfort). Thus Marcus and Susan spent the rest of their lives together on their paradise world with Susan giving birth to Marcus's children.
@@903IDFOLEY I don't recall the kids part but it was a short story in Amazing Stories magazine. I liked it but it had mixed reactions from the online community.
Honestly, I thought that the Earth ships should've destroyed a 3rd of the Whitestar fleet. The Shadow armor should've made an Earth destroyer tough to destroy like that.
Nothing is invincible if you focus enough DAKKA!!! on it. But the Shadow armor indeed made the destroyers tougher, and the Whitestar fleet had to coordinate fire to take them out. For comparison, they easily ripped through the regular destroyers at the beginning of the clip.
Also, it is more than likely that the Shadow Armor on the Omega-X’s won’t be quite as tough as regular Shadow Armor. The Shadows aren’t likely going to give the humans their very best stuff, and even if they did, the quality of the final product would be limited by Earth’s base manufacturing capability and the time Earth had to build them. (Remember they are prototypes that were rushed into combat prematurely because Clark was getting desperate)
@adamwu4565 I agree, because you never give a technologically less advanced civilization than yours technology that's thousands of years more advance than anything they have yet, to develop on their own. Let's not forget that the Centauri only gave humans jump drive technology when they first encountered them. The Centauri could've conquered the human race but, they decided not to because they do not want to get into another long and bitter war like they had with the the Narns. The Shadows could've given the EA their cloaking technology. The ability to create organic ships since their technology is similar to the Vorlons. Lastly they could've given them the technology to create artificial gravity aboard any Earth ship. Most likely, the Shadows had a liaison to help the EA to develop organic armor to graft onto Earth Alliance warships. The only thing the Shadows didn't do was give them was major fire power.
The Omega X wiped out most of the Whitestars in that battle. Ivanova's command ship was nealy destroyed to. They gave the Whitestars with more number one hell of a run for their money. I think these Omega X might be equal to a Sharlin cruiser.
Erm, Earth Force destroyers, what was stopping someone from just chucking a missle or bomb of some description into the great bit bloody hole in the front of them?
@@adamwu4565 I know what the hole is, the fighters coming out of it was a clue ;) But even with point defences, it seems like a bloody big, bloody obvious target...
There are 2 separate engagements in this clip. The first engagement is with 2 regular Omega-class destroyers (Damocles and Orion) they are not destroyed. The second engagement (after the jump-gate) is against the shadow hybrid advanced omega-class destroyers
the white stars had better ecm and armor/shielding(yes there was shielding in B5 just not SW style bigolebubble) compared to the fighters while also being smaller in comparison to the destroyers. firepower wise they might have been sorta even but id give the slight advantage to the white stars as they had vorlon lvl beams where as the Omegas had buffed up versions but not the same as shadow grade slicer beams.
The White Stars would still have a technological advantage, since they are Vorlon + Minbari tech, while the Omega-X’s were Shadow + Human tech, and while Vorlon and Shadow tech are close to equivalent, Minbari tech is still significantly superior to human tech at that point in the storyline. The fighters on the Earth side are regular unenhanced bog standard Thunderbolt Starfuries, and these are no match for the White Stars at all. A White Star could probably take on 10 or more of them at once and still win.
![Space Battle [Babylon 5: An Ancient Ally]](/img/1.gif)
Watching end of 2023 and looks as awesome as when it came out decades ago. Babylon V never gets old.
Don't watch the first season 😉
I'm not sure I've seen a more intense space battle. They were seriously outgunned against an enemy they didn't expect. Whitestars were getting blasted like they were mere fighters. The tension was in the music and the camera angles. Ivanova would've died if it weren't for Marcus' sacrifice.
To me, Susan's response to the enemy captain's order to surrender, is the most hair raising, bone chilling, deep soul line of the entire series.
i appreciate the ships keep momentum when going by the destroyers, turning and shooting as they pass
I don't think I've seen another sci-fi series actually utilise that until The Expanse.
Such an awesome and iconic Battle Scene! This scene never gets old!!
I'd forgotten how much clever flying there was in the mix there, particularly when they 180 to focus fire on the destroyer. Had Ivanova not kept them moving they could have been toast,
That battle scene was the most kickass one from all of B5! I loved that little speech from Commander Ivanova.
The use of Shadow technology made it a close and tougher fight.
But in the end, Vorlon technology still wins.
No, really?
@@joncn005 Because the Vorlon tech was seamlessly integrated into the White Stars. All that Shadow tech on those Omega Destroyers was "Hey let's slap this on and hope that it works and doesn't immediately kill the crew."
Also while they were tougher AND had slightly advanced firing systems they were still up essentially against a fleet a VERY manuverable Corvette/Destroyers whose space frames were build from the ground up with advanced tech.
The guy in the background reacting to her speech is perfect, an honest reaction to sheer terror.
"We're not that lucky" Somehow that sounds eerily familar.
I heavily suspect that the Shadows had helped President Clark's regime to make those ships as a response to the Whitestar's existence.
The Shadows didn't help President Clark's regime, that's not how they operate. They were President Clark's regime.
It was more likely a trade off for earths telepaths to be the central processing unit to defend against foreign telepaths halting their ships (like when the shadows eradicated Narn telepaths) for their technology
The Omega-X destroyers are the coolest looking ships ever.
4:36 I can always FEEL this fly-by!!!
"We have your jump-capable ships maneuvering within a three-dimensional space surrounded!" 🤣🤣🤣
imagine in the middle of ivanova's big speach at 3.00 , the comms oficer says " ah, captain, the coms were still off just now but its back up, ao can you take from the top with the " death incarnate thing?"
🤣
Obs, Opsii.
the special effects were amazing for their day - even now they are still amazing
That was one kick ass battle scene 👍
I like how they went extra hard on these ships because of the shadow tech. No mercy, no chance for surrender, not letting them fire first
Considering how easily they were dealt with, one has to wonder what was so advanced about them anyway.
The main reason Ivanova went extra hard was because the Shadow destroyer force was tasked with hunting down the standard Earth Force destroyers on the rebel side who would have stood little chance against them.
The White Stars were designed specifically to take on real Shadow vessels in the first place and had far better speed and maneuverability. The White Star fleet were therefore a good match up against the Shadow destroyers, and Ivanova pressed her advantage to have every last one of them destroyed to prevent future casualties.
I wouldn't say 'easily'. It was a tough battle that could have gone wrong for Ivanova's side. Sure, those destroyers were no Shadow vessels, but they were thougher than ordinary destroyers. Notice that 2:58, even though the White Star unloads all it has on the enemy, it doesn't even leave a scratch, where against the ordinary destroyers in previous it set them on fire.
Also, because Ivanova knew these guys wouldn't defect nor surrender, she went for the kill right from the get go.
... No one doesn't have to wonder what was so advanced about them if one watches the whole video it starts with a battle against non-advanced Omegas and extremely clearly shows how much less powerful and durable they are...
I wouldn't say easy when you consider that the advanced destroyers particle beam cannons are able to one-shot a Whitestar.
It's basically like the federation reverse engineering a Borg cube and plating the enterprise with it.
Won't make the enterprise invincible, especially against ships made specifically for killing Borg (defiant class)
Nice enhance and upscale you got there. Looks better than many early 2000s cgi
This looks like the HBO version thats so far the best.. its easy to identify because its 4:3 aspect ratio.. thats the best that can be done as the series was done in 4:3 and there is not 16:9 master or version.. any 16:9 was done croping from the 4:3 so when stretched it looks even worst.. i prefer the HBO 4:3 version.. its the one that looks nicer and you dont miss anything as the original was 4:3 too.
Sadly making a proper HD version would imply redoing the entire series CGI and composite shots from scratch .. considering the finantial failure that Star Trek TNG HD remaster was i cant see WB risking millions in a proper B5 remaster in widescreen
Babylon 5 has the best space battles of any Science Fiction show!
That reply was epic
The upscaleing actually removed the shadow tendrils from some of the shots
Great episode
I often wonder how the Clark government kept those advanced destroyers from eating their crews.
I would like to point out, these EARTH made vessels with Shadow Tech took more to kill than a real shadow vessel earlier in the season, and even the Drahk, who were using tech just under the shadows themselves could barely go one on one with a White Star, despite being bigger than these things were.
Says something about Earth made stuff in this universe. We build to last...even when dealing with materials made from the nightmares of orphans.
Ivanava needed to be relieved...great acting you could tell the character was right on the edge
It's a nice thing that the advanced destroyer group waited until Ivanova had finished her speach and they even let Ivanova to have the first shot. Also nice that they only used one cannon per ship so that the Whitestars could dodge their fire.
It's a show. If you want real warfare go to the Ukraine
You must be fun at parties
The captain obviously held his fire to convince the white star fleet to surrender.
Dur.
The omega destroyers we're built in about...5 minutes. They were prototypes, armed with the exact same array as their warlock destroyer counterpart.
They were made as a last ditch effort because the white star fleet was cutting through earth force like butter.
Dur.
Did you not even watch the show?
@@We_Are_Borg_478 omega-xs had nothing in common with the warlock weaponwise. They used light molecular slicers, outdated shadow weapons reverse engineered from Mars, warlock had no shadow weapons.
Whitestar fleet was largely depleted by the time of earth's battle. This doesn't mean that they are less capable than omegas. Just that Sheridan and ivanova usually started their fights by holding back, and a majority of EF ships lol-nop'd out of the war, staying away from it by surrendering or abandoning their positions. Imagine if about 70% of a country's entire military abandoned its deployment patterns and present orders, while a guerilla faction is heading for its capital.
B5wars has more details.
It is not necessarily a question of “letting” an enemy fire first. There are also issues of targeting and range. Before you can shoot at something they have to get into your weapons range and you also have to get a target lock on them.
The White stars would be actively maneuvering on approach while Ivanona was speaking.
We know the White Stars have a longer weapons range than the regular Omegas. The weapons range and targeting abilities of the Omega-X’s are unclear, but they may still be less than those of the White Stars, since the White Stars are Vorlon + Minbari tech while the Omega-X’s are Shadow + Human tech, and while Vorlon and Shadow tech are probably equivalent, Minbari tech is still superior to Human tech at this point in the series timeline.
And if they were equal, or even if the Omega-X’s were slightly superior, the smaller size and greater maneuverability of the White Stars means they are more likely going to get target lock on the bigger slower Omega-X’s first, and get to fire first.
The Whitestars always had incredible plot armor.
Lots of them get blown up!
@@ComradeOgilvy1984 Just let him ignore the facts he can see with his own eyes and shape reality so it fits his narrow world view so he can feel important. 90% of the comments are like those from the last couple of years. "We" the 1982 1984 generation have to endure this Facebook/Fortnite idiotic generation until our kids take over and hopefully do better.
@@IIISentorIII They are not wrong. Plot armor went a long way on these space battles on this and other series. Weapons that could destroy a small moon suddenly could not penetrate a non reinforced and non shielded hull and vice versa ships that could survive a star exploding get detroyed by a small rock. And of course, like these destroyers who theoretically have trained crews, some develop a case of stormtrooper aim.
@@JOESMITH-qs8ue So you, too, believe that making a generic complaint is a useful contribution to a discussion, even if nothing you say is relevant to the series being discussed?
I count 3 of them destroyed in this clip and just after this clip ends Ivanova's WhiteStar is going to get destroyed too, fatally wounding Ivanova.
So if WhiteStars plot armour is incredible, Advanced Omega Destroyers have darn good anti-plot-armor weapon systems
plot twist: "And this is Capt. Lasky of the UNSC Infinity to strange funny-looking black ships....have a series-8 MAC round up your ass!" 😛
4:28 2 whitestars getting oneshot
"God sent me..." :)
I wish they would have given those shadow destroyers more credit than they gave them they were shadow vessels for crying out loud!!!
I understand the white stars were strong but come on pfft
Why cut out the end? It was only another 30 seconds or so...
The speech
Susan Ivanova has guts I like her!
I'm kind of surprised the fighters seem to get a whitestar or 2. I'd have thought their shielding and armour would protect against fighter level weaponry.
The fighters were also using Shadow tech.
Plot twist. Ivanova secretly hacked the earth ships, so they couldn't do anything until she decided it..
In such combat it helps not to fly in a straight line
say what you will about the graphics for the time but I am definitely getting wing commander vibes
And, all those Ministries? Literally 1984.
early game tech vs late game tech
mid game tech vs late game tech
;D
lol reaching end game and going back to beginner areas
Yet , Susan never go to 'boff' that Ranger that was in love with her. Marcus didn't quite get his chance...
Heard there was a (unofficial?) novel about Marcus getting awoken decades after Ivanova's death.
After being absolutely miserable for a while, he pulls himself together and decides he and Susan deserves a decent retirement. Using his remaining contacts, he steals a sample of Ivanova's DNA and has a perfect clone of her created with memories up to the point were she was injured.
He then arranges for them to be marooned on a out of the way paradise world, then wakes the Ivanova clone and tells her that they crashed on the planet after the battle and that they had no means to return to space or call for help (but had all the tools to live in relative comfort). Thus Marcus and Susan spent the rest of their lives together on their paradise world with Susan giving birth to Marcus's children.
@@903IDFOLEY I don't recall the kids part but it was a short story in Amazing Stories magazine. I liked it but it had mixed reactions from the online community.
When science fiction was good!
I read somewhere that semi organic skin was eating the crew Idk if that's true or not
Yes, it's Gary's Cannon
Honestly, I thought that the Earth ships should've destroyed a 3rd of the Whitestar fleet. The Shadow armor should've made an Earth destroyer tough to destroy like that.
Nothing is invincible if you focus enough DAKKA!!! on it. But the Shadow armor indeed made the destroyers tougher, and the Whitestar fleet had to coordinate fire to take them out. For comparison, they easily ripped through the regular destroyers at the beginning of the clip.
Also, it is more than likely that the Shadow Armor on the Omega-X’s won’t be quite as tough as regular Shadow Armor. The Shadows aren’t likely going to give the humans their very best stuff, and even if they did, the quality of the final product would be limited by Earth’s base manufacturing capability and the time Earth had to build them. (Remember they are prototypes that were rushed into combat prematurely because Clark was getting desperate)
@adamwu4565 I agree, because you never give a technologically less advanced civilization than yours technology that's thousands of years more advance than anything they have yet, to develop on their own. Let's not forget that the Centauri only gave humans jump drive technology when they first encountered them. The Centauri could've conquered the human race but, they decided not to because they do not want to get into another long and bitter war like they had with the the Narns. The Shadows could've given the EA their cloaking technology. The ability to create organic ships since their technology is similar to the Vorlons. Lastly they could've given them the technology to create artificial gravity aboard any Earth ship. Most likely, the Shadows had a liaison to help the EA to develop organic armor to graft onto Earth Alliance warships. The only thing the Shadows didn't do was give them was major fire power.
The Omega X wiped out most of the Whitestars in that battle. Ivanova's command ship was nealy destroyed to. They gave the Whitestars with more number one hell of a run for their money. I think these Omega X might be equal to a Sharlin cruiser.
They did more than that, the 2 fleets wiped each other out.
Erm, Earth Force destroyers, what was stopping someone from just chucking a missle or bomb of some description into the great bit bloody hole in the front of them?
That hole is their hangar bay, so it presumably is heavily covered with point defences, as well as the forward facing regular weapons batteries too.
@@adamwu4565 I know what the hole is, the fighters coming out of it was a clue ;) But even with point defences, it seems like a bloody big, bloody obvious target...
It was interesting scene
Белые "колготки" - ну мы же пытаемся многократно договориться, как мир делить, но черти не хотят. Ну а как тут уже без Баратино обойтись
The battle sequence is out of order. Did you do that on purpose to avoid copyright issues?
There are 2 separate engagements in this clip. The first engagement is with 2 regular Omega-class destroyers (Damocles and Orion) they are not destroyed. The second engagement (after the jump-gate) is against the shadow hybrid advanced omega-class destroyers
What was the name of this episode?
Between the Darkness and the Light
I enjoyed this show but the amount of hack writing and over-acting could be tough sometimes.
Hack writing? Watch Star Trek Discovery. Or Star Trek Picard.
@@paulanerruhrpott6188 PASS! lol
Lame.
the dialogue in this show is pretty bad.
Your mother cooking is ready patrick!
@@IIISentorIII I can see why this dialogue would appeal to people who don't natively speak english.
There was no way they should have won against the destroyers and fighters they were out numbered
the white stars had better ecm and armor/shielding(yes there was shielding in B5 just not SW style bigolebubble) compared to the fighters while also being smaller in comparison to the destroyers. firepower wise they might have been sorta even but id give the slight advantage to the white stars as they had vorlon lvl beams where as the Omegas had buffed up versions but not the same as shadow grade slicer beams.
@@erpherp4047 read the description of the various EA ships .. you can get all the tech specs ..there are a couple channels that do that kinda thing
@@xadam2dudex suggest ya take ya own advice there.
The White Stars would still have a technological advantage, since they are Vorlon + Minbari tech, while the Omega-X’s were Shadow + Human tech, and while Vorlon and Shadow tech are close to equivalent, Minbari tech is still significantly superior to human tech at that point in the storyline.
The fighters on the Earth side are regular unenhanced bog standard Thunderbolt Starfuries, and these are no match for the White Stars at all. A White Star could probably take on 10 or more of them at once and still win.