Federer Del Potro | Side by Side Forehand Analysis | Super Slow Motion

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  • Опубликовано: 19 дек 2024

Комментарии • 59

  • @thomasmedeiros5722
    @thomasmedeiros5722 3 года назад +1

    Very interesting analysis. I learned to play back in the day with a wooden racquet. My classic forehand has evolved into the eastern forehand grip Del Potro style. I love to move forward and take it on the rise. Like to put them to sleep with with the deep high loop over the net then move forward on the short return and flatten in out. I also find the Eastern Forehand grip is useful on the approach and easy to adjust on the volley to close out the point.

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  Год назад

      Interesting how your forehand evolved into an eastern forehand grip. I'm happy to hear you are able to hit a looping and flatter forehand as well, it sounds like you have a solid game. Thanks for your comment! JF

  • @scottharper8233
    @scottharper8233 6 лет назад +1

    Thank you for putting the time into this comparison. Looking at the nuances of various swings using the slow motion, side-by-side view is a great tool for comparing and/or analyzing. It would be so much more effective and valuable, however, if you found videos of both players hitting a similar ball from a similar position on the court in order to see how they do it differently. For example, find a video of Federer stepping forward to a ball similar to what Del Po is doing. You would clearly see that Federer hits the ball at least as far in front as Del Po. You would also see Federer with a different follow through, although it would still be different than Del Po's. That would be very instructive for us to see. Ideally, it would also be best if they were both hitting either crosscourt, down the line, inside in, inside out, etc. Then it wouldn't be necessary to guess why their wrist-racquet angles at contact are in different positions. (Contact is not the only factor that determines the flight, spin, and speed of the ball. The path of the racquet and shape of the swing, matters greatly too.)
    Thanks again. You obviously love tennis like the rest of us. Keep on improving your videos so more people will watch them and learn from them as this is a great way for viewers to accurately see similarities and differences. Which way is better is the debatable part. Which way is doable is probably more important.

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  6 лет назад +1

      Scott, thank you for your comment. What you have stated is exactly what I have said about all strokes in general, they are like snowflakers, no two are alike. You are correct, I need to do another analysis on both players but on strokes that are as close to each other as possible. For example, both players are hitting offensive forehands, from similar areas on the courts, to similar areas on their opponents part of the court, with similar shapes (the ball flight) with similar spin ratios on the ball. Wow, their is a lot that goes into hitting a shot. Let me see what I can do. Do you mind if I reference you in the video if I make it? Regards, John Frausto

  • @shawkinguk
    @shawkinguk 6 лет назад +3

    Great video!
    Loved it
    I’m a college player/5.0 /coach
    Moved my forehand from “bent” position to straight arm on contact to be more in line with delpo
    Has been interesting transition but incredibly rewarding
    I would never teach bent elbow now
    Delpo FH all the way

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  4 года назад

      Oliver, thank you for your comment. How is your straight arm forehand working out? JF

    • @emjay2045
      @emjay2045 3 года назад

      How did this help ?

  • @Better_Call_Raul
    @Better_Call_Raul Год назад +1

    04:15 Fed is in the "palm down" position while DelPo is on edge. It is true that the Fed swing is, arguably, more complicated as it swivels from that palm down position. *BUT* Fed's forehand is more compact; less time to execute that complicated swing.
    Some will say that the Fed style requires more precise timing due to the complex swing from the palm down. OTOH, DelPo's swing takes more time to execute. The benefits of the compact palm down swing might outweigh its downside.

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  Год назад

      Great comment. I am going to create more videos in the future on this palm down position and utilizing the "swivel". I agree with you, his swing is more compact which is helpful with ball speeds increasing. Thanks for your comment! JF

    • @Better_Call_Raul
      @Better_Call_Raul Год назад

      @@topspintennis Thanks for the wonderful video. At 07:07, we see both players with buttcap pointed at the ball.
      Dr Mark Kovacs calls this the "locked in position". The wrist will be in an extended position. Basically, from this "locked in position" to contact the wrist will remain in that extended position; very little to no wrist movement in the flexion direction. Of course, the wrist will release in the instant just after contact.
      My understanding is that the common objection to the "pat the dog" or "palm down" is that you reach the "locked in position" much later and there is less margin for error. Requires more precise timing and will lead to more mishits than the Delpo style.
      It would be interesting to compare the *distance* from that "locked in position" to the ball with Fed and Delpo hitting similar balls with similar intent. At 07:07, It appears that Fed reaches the "locked in position" later than Delpo -- the ball is closer to Fed compared to Delpo. Not sure with camera angle. Also, Fed is in a semi-open stance and Delpo is in a neutral stance and hitting with different intent. May not be a valid comparison.

  • @Fernwald84
    @Fernwald84 5 лет назад +1

    I believe that an important factor in keeping a powerful forehand while shortening the backswing is getting a good loop in the backswing. You can easily see this effect by practicing some shadow swings and taking your racquet hand at least as high as your shoulder in the backswing. In this video, Del Potro seems to have a slightly greater loop than Federer but the big difference in their backswings that I see is Del Potro's almost vertical racquet head position. I think that this enhances his power by providing a longer racquet head swing path without needing an exceptionally long backswing--just as a bigger backswing loop does. In watching other videos of Del Potro I think he emphasizes his loop backswing & vertical racquet head position whenever he wants to put extra mph on his forehand.

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  4 года назад

      George, if you have the time a longer loop can potentially create more power. There are other factors of course but the increase loop can aid in power. Thanks for your comment! JF

  • @shaylevy100
    @shaylevy100 6 лет назад +4

    I'm self taught. For a very long time i tried to keep my racket head closed (palm down) but always revert back to palm out since it feels more natural. Palm out can be great but only if you have solid footwork and positioning, it is risky because the racket face is open as you start to move towards contact and can be completely open by the time you make contact resulting in a home run instead of a winner.

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  6 лет назад +1

      Shay Levy Thank you for your comment. I believe one way to eliminate the uncontrollable racquet face is to go to ball slower, accelerating just before contact. This way its easier to find the ball. Thanks again for watching the video. Is there anything you would like to see instructionally? Thanks, John

    • @shaylevy100
      @shaylevy100 6 лет назад +1

      The "go to ball slower" is a great advice, my only problem is that I can't seems to execute it in match as i'm always rushing looking for a quick way to end the point instead of being a bit more patient. The forehand analysis videos are great.

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  6 лет назад

      Shay Levy I'm glad you like the analysis. Think "Go slow before you go." Just as you touch the ball you accelerate. Enjoy your day!

  • @rkram3118
    @rkram3118 6 лет назад +8

    Looks like they both are not same type of incoming ball? Fed is hitting on back foot (absorbing?) and Delp on front foot (attacking)

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  6 лет назад +3

      Good point. They are definitely moving in different directions. The incoming ball is different for each player. Thanks for pointing this out! John Frausto

    • @obaidfarghani9202
      @obaidfarghani9202 6 лет назад

      Correct but we got what we needed

  • @twinwankel
    @twinwankel 6 лет назад

    I use to drop left arm quickly because it gets it out of my vision so I can see the ball better but recently I have gone to holding and extending my left arm more so I can get more torque on my stroke. I think this is the reason for Dpol. But realize that he is a massive man and that he can hit hard and flat with any kind of technique. I’ve played against tall strong people and they don’t practice with great technique.

  • @Adam-rh9my
    @Adam-rh9my 5 лет назад +1

    Great job. Couple things I have to point out though...their stance cannot be taken as a standard, simply because they didn't receive the same exact ball. Notice how is Roger way back behind the baseline compared to Juan, who is obviously moving in on a base line. Another point, which I don't think was mentioned was their ARM EXTENSION! That's the biggest difference, between their forehand and others like Djokovic, Murray, Nishikori, Roddick, who lack that arm extension right before the contact..Nadal has a great extension for western grip as well, Berdych and Cilic are somewhere in the middle..The extension gives you that "whip" in your forehand -> more power. The last thing is something that is very hard to notice by tennis observers and analysts, even players. It's the body weight professionals put in their strokes. Because you didn't fully finish the stroke motion and cut the finish too soon, you don't see how Federer turns after each forehand. ruclips.net/video/KLzaaln6Rf0/видео.html It looks like he is almost forcing the turn after the hit. But he isn't. He is simply finishing the balance shift from one leg to the other. Look for that right foot coming forward after each stroke even in warmups, even if it's a very tiny step..its the balance shifting move, that adds a lot of power. Notice here ruclips.net/video/pY6o5m3jRfs/видео.html Del Potro does a tiny jump before every hit to shift the weight into the stroke. He does it every time. It's the small left foot right foot split jump that makes a huge difference ,especially for players who hit it flat and use eastern grip. Timing is everything. One last thing. The hardest thing to analyse I believe, and I didn't find a single video on youtube so far on it, and what makes Roger's forehand the best ever is that finish right after the hit. The magic that happens in the wrist. The closing that produces topspin and control after flawless (I believe) flat hit. No one does that at the ATP tour. No one does it like him, nor DelPo nor Dimitrov.

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  4 года назад

      Great observation Yatan, are extension does play an important factor in generating power. There will be more videos to come on this topic! Thanks, JF

  • @sebastiansantos5561
    @sebastiansantos5561 Год назад +1

    which of both backswings make heat with more power delpo's or federer's and why?? and which one do you recommend for today's game if you want to become pro and either why

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  Год назад

      Sebastian, I personally think Roger's ATP forehand creates more power. He utitlizes the lag and swivel move more efficiently, increasing racquet head speed and power. Just my personal opinion. I'm sure this could be debated. Thanks for your question! JF

    • @sebastiansantos5561
      @sebastiansantos5561 Год назад

      @@topspintennis but if we see in this case Delpo's forehand is powerfull than federer's¡! What's your opinion about that and why?¿

  • @pbc_03
    @pbc_03 3 года назад +1

    My loop and racquet face is very much like Del Potro. That is just how I was taught and it has become second nature to me. I tried switching to a semi western grip with open stance but i prefer the "Classic" stance and swing. It feels natural, I get much more power and pace with an eastern grip. Also...the straight arm full extension really helps in creating extra power on the forehand. I admire both players but Del Potro is my favorite on tour. Would you do an analysis on Nick Kyrgios slap forehand? That is another devastating forehand that is unmatched on tour. Especially his jump slap shot.

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  3 года назад +1

      I don't have footage of Kyrgios but if I come across some I will definitely do an analysis. He is fun to watch! JF

  • @jimmclennan2234
    @jimmclennan2234 3 года назад +2

    Very very good - succinct analysis - where do you work? I am in the Bay Area - Jim

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  3 года назад

      Jim, thank you. I am located in Wisconsin, just north of Milwaukee (50 miles.) I teach part time, I have another full time job. JF:)

  • @jonathanchen1026
    @jonathanchen1026 5 лет назад +2

    For your average tennis player, do you think delpotro forehand swing path is easier and more simpler to emulate and has less chances to make errors from shanks and mis hits because he also doesn’t really over uses the wrist?

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  4 года назад

      Jonathan, I do believe it is a "simpler" stroke as you stated. The challenge is that Del Potro has a had several injuries, is his technique the issue? Thanks, JF

    • @stefandrago8578
      @stefandrago8578 3 года назад

      No, it's not simpler, because hitting that flat can be risky and it mainly suits an offensive 2-3 shots game.

  • @abdelrhmanmahmoud9275
    @abdelrhmanmahmoud9275 6 лет назад +1

    Great analysis I really appreciate it and am asking if you can make an analysis of Nick kyrgios serve I think he has a great serve that deserves analysing

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  6 лет назад +1

      Unfortunately I don't have video of Nick. Thank you for your comment. All the best with your tennis game! John Frausto

  • @2378o0o0
    @2378o0o0 5 лет назад

    Look also where the left hand goes after the take back? Feds is high and del potro is low. That makes a difference. And I would suspect it's due to Del potro being so tall about 6ft7ish. Thanks your thoughts?

  • @newtonfirefly3584
    @newtonfirefly3584 6 лет назад

    john, You have some interesting comments and observations. Clearly Roger has more complexity in the path of his stroke. He also has several variations depending upon the situation though he tends to have palm and racket face down as You indicated. Juan Martin does have a higher loop, but simpler stroke. They each do something to achieve more racket head speed. As seen, but not pointed out, Juan Martin bends his wrist back a bit more before moving into the contact point. If You see the analysis by IMG coaching with Maria Shishkina, using Juan Martin for the Pro comparison, it is pointed out the directing of the racket butt toward the ball, maintaining it as long as possible, moving the arm forward, then rotating into the contact point with good extension, and extension in the follow through.

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  6 лет назад

      Thank you for your comment and analysis. You are correct with your comment in regards to Del Potro's Forehand being cleaner and simpler. I hope Del Potro has more tennis in him, he has a big game and is fun to watch. All the best with your tennis game!

    • @CC42_
      @CC42_ 6 лет назад

      exactly ...feds forehand is extremely difficult to emulate because of how much timing between body and wrist is required in his stroke. He has a sublime wrist action. He also has like you said more variations on that stroke than other players. His grip is kinda unique too. He uses eastern but there's a slight adjustment he makes that I can't quite copy. You can best see this if you look at hos take back from behind him. It allows him to sort of drop his hand into a pet the dog position which, when he fires his hips, sets his wrist into that beautiful lag he gets.

  • @LaTiNoDiaz
    @LaTiNoDiaz 6 лет назад

    Does one technique clearly favor the other regarding the chance to get injuries in the long term?

  • @johnnyguitar6697
    @johnnyguitar6697 6 лет назад

    I think Delpo is dropping his non-hitting arm so fast because his arms are so long that it would end up getting in the way and require more effort. As in: it would just take more time to clear it given the distance it has to travel to get back to the left side of his body. Also, longer lever means more effort to keep that arm up. So this is the most "economical" way for him to clear his arm, and allows him to maintain his looseness.
    As for how I personally hit my forehand, it would be close to Delpo, except that my racquet doesn't go as high on the top of the loop. I was taught tennis in the late 70's - early 80's with an Eastern forehand grip, with an emphasis in driving through the ball. I have a tendency to bend my arm at contact, and I can still hear my old coach yelling "Keep your arm straight!!!". Topspin would be a consequence of dropping the racquet a bit lower at the end of a loop, and allowing a bit more upward wrist action, but the arm was to be kept relatively straight. How I hit is really a function of my fitness: if I am fit and on my game, I manage to adjust my footwork to create enough space with the ball and hit with only a slight bent. The lazier / more tired I am, the more bent the arm becomes.

  • @jonlonsmith402
    @jonlonsmith402 6 лет назад

    Can you please do a video in Carla Suárez Navarro’s one hand backhand

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  6 лет назад

      Will do. Thank you for your request! JF

  • @obaidfarghani9202
    @obaidfarghani9202 6 лет назад

    Great thanka

  • @internetanalytics618
    @internetanalytics618 6 лет назад

    I heard Darren Cahill say Fed and Del Po have the best forehands cause the keep their elbows basically straight. I have always hit with a bent elbow. With a straight elbow you have to rotate the core more says cahill. Therefore you get more power easily. Cahill is correct. I have played with a straighter elbow on my forehand in the last three weeks. I get way more pace easily, and WAY more topspin. Blasting the ball through the court is so much easier with a straight elbow.
    Absolutely the straight elbow provides more easy power. It gives you more leverage easier. Hint: Your gonna need a ball machine to make the transition from bent to straight elbow. And you have to do it in sets not just practice. Guess who is going to the tennis center to rent a ball machine for 10,000 strokes. LOL

  • @obaidfarghani9202
    @obaidfarghani9202 5 лет назад +1

    Great share but different situations, Potro is stepping in hitting at front foot and Fed is hitting on back foot.

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  4 года назад

      You are correct. Thanks for your comment! JF

  • @stefandrago8578
    @stefandrago8578 3 года назад +1

    Delpo's wrist seems to be a little stiff (this could be one of the reasons why he had the injury in 2009). He's also taller and hits superflat shots, so the machanics looks different. But obviously every tennis player seems stiff when compared to Fed.

    • @topspintennis
      @topspintennis  3 года назад

      Stefan, he doesn't have as much lag as someone like Federer or Sinner. Has that led to his wrist injuries, possibly. I'm a fan of staying relaxed and letting the technique generate the power. Thanks for your comment! JF

    • @emjay2045
      @emjay2045 3 года назад

      Plus since his racket was so stinking stiff … I’m sure that didn’t help either. After his R hand wrist surgery… two on his L wrist. Oh what could had been DP!! 🏆

  • @sebastiansantos5561
    @sebastiansantos5561 6 месяцев назад

    There still players at today's game in the pro tour that continues doing Del Potro's forehand technique?¿

  • @ts440s
    @ts440s 6 лет назад

    Hitting like Del potro your swing is much longer, fine for slow balls but when pace increases I don't know how he has the time. I've tried both delpo is more natural, way less topspin is the problem I find, needing to hit reverse forehands all the time.

  •  6 лет назад

    You delivered what you promised...Fed vs. delPo forehand analysis. About 5.3K people had seen this at the writing of this comment. I wonder how many watched all the way through and of those, how many wanted their 11:15 back. I know I do. Thanks.

    • @wickedandbadful
      @wickedandbadful 4 года назад

      What an awful comment. Are you always this passive aggressive and precious?

  • @handsomejohnjohn
    @handsomejohnjohn 6 лет назад

    Federer form is easier to follow than Del. Del Portro have to drop from very high to low and eventually in the exactly same racquet position as Federer as you can see in video. You don't need extra step to waste time.

  • @twinwankel
    @twinwankel 5 лет назад

    I am very dubious of your video analysis. First Del Potro is not taking the ball early. The ball was hit relatively short compared to Federer's and so he had to move up. You can see that by the path of the ball. It's traveling horizontally before contact and not rising. Second, it's clear why Fed said that. Del Potro has a simple stroke that's slow, easy to teach and easy to time. So it would make perfect sense to teach that to young people. You don't want to teach Fed's technique because it's very advance and complex. He relies so much on timing and racket head speed. It would take so much longer to get it reliable. Third, the reason why Del Potro generates so much power is because he is a massive human being. He doesn't need much racket velocity to generate big momentum. If juniors want big power however they wont get it from Del Potro's swing unless they are as big as he is. Another thing is that he moves his left arm out of the way to increase visibility. He's got so much momentum that he doesn't need much shoulder rotation.

    • @Adam-rh9my
      @Adam-rh9my 5 лет назад +1

      Del Potro's forehand technique is super hard to time bro. Probably one of the hardest strokes to control on the court. Roger on the other hand is by books the most beautiful forehand, because its fluid, natural, simple and easy to teach. I would recommend everyone to copy his or Dimitorv's forehand not DelPotro's.

    • @bournejason66
      @bournejason66 3 года назад

      Yatan exactly. The bigger the loop, the harder to time it right. Fed’s forehand is not as complicated. It gets complicated when he sometimes hit in the middle of that windshield wiper, that’s hard to time and get the direction right. But you don’t need that extra cherry on top unless you are playing against Rafa or djokovic 😀🎾