Thrawn with a SSD would had been unstopable, but the idea of him having a standard ISD demonstrates that his strategies works quite well no matter what ship he commands
When there's no enemy to face the conflicts would become Civil Wars, moffs looking to rise above their station, perhaps even a coalition, held together only by constant management and likely assasinations - Palpatine wanted a hands off empire, controlling the biggest toy that nobody could match, if not for the critical and intentional flaw of the first by a subtle traitor, or man eating teddy bears (the local wildlife) rendering the second vulnerable, he'd have had his wish easily. Hell without the Emperors death and his battle meditator abandoning his post to go look for the Emperor they still could have won the second battle easily@@Casey093
Another thing I could note is the cost of maintaining a SSD. Considering that thrawn was in the unknown regions cut off from the now fractured empire he probably wouldn’t have the resources to maintain it
Bingo, I don't know how long fuel lasts in Star Wars, and I don't know how hard it is to refine, but it seems to me like a SSD would be the GAS HOG of the SW universe, the proverbial "boat" of a car like an old Cadillac or something. Not to mention all the food, water, and other necessities a huge crew would need to simply survive. I don't know what the advantages of an SSD are, but if it doesn't have more "air power" like fighter launch capabilities and/or a significant turbolaser capability increase over a regular SD, then its definitely not worth the resources it would take to run one (or several) in the scenario that post-Endor would have caused in terns of the usual supply lines/logistical break down that would have occurred, unless Thrawn could have set up his own supply channels/lines and sources and what not but I doubt even a man of Thrawns abilities could have figured up a consistent, reliable supply source for a fleet of any considerable size, much less more than one fleet, SSD's included or not.
@@lastmanstanding-xp3ub supposedly they gain fuel from taking particles from hyperspace and channeling the energy they produce to go back as well as nuclear fusion via Tibanna Gas or Gas from Gas giants however I think it can survive a few weeks on full fuel though it wouldn't be combat ready
There is actually a passage in the original Thrawn trilogy, where he considers the loss of the Death Star and how in his opinion the only real loss was, that it took the Executor with it.
Thrawn probably regretted the loss of the talented crew and officers.Although not without risk, serving onboard Vader's personal command ship was seen as a way to gain rank within the Imperial Navy. Thus there was a lot of competition to serve in Vader's fleet which attracted the most talented crews.
Thrawn stuck me as a man who would have looked at the SSD and gone something like "The money that went into this could have bought many normal SDs that would be more flexible from a tactical and strategic standpoint..." His only regret at the loss of the DS2 and the Executor was that their loss took out the best and the brightest of the Empire's officers and enlisted men with them, which he would have considered real and actual valuable resources.
@@SoranPryde the one thing he may have valued it for is to be placed in loyal hands and utterly shutdown and rogue forces - more than just a mere destroyer but rather warlords - such as if the northern warlords had emerged during the empires time
I feel like he also wouldn't want one. An Imperial Star Destroyer was already at the max of size for a ship he'd find use for. He preferred smaller more easily moved and maintained ships.
@@CHRF-55457 he won't refuse it definitely, Thrawn isn't one to throw away Ships or chances , neither misuse and 2aste them , He would have it as a Hammer , A wall In reserve or In the Rear most ranks or In a System one jump away , like Pellion did at battle of Orinda with the Dominion or Megador
It jus makes me think of the aftermath of the HMS Hood & Battleship Bismarck Incident in World War II, after it became clear that these huge warships were more of a hinderance, navies took to smaller, more agile ships! Gone were your Man-of-War, your Dreadnaught, your Cruiser, in were Frigates, Destroyers and Aircraft Carriers, the latter now taking up the mantle of Flagship, like the Ark Royal and the Enterprise, the former actaully instrumental in sinking of the Bismarck and the ship of my hometown!
I'd also imagine that resupplying an SSD would've been a massive pain and slowed down Thrawn's operations significantly, especially in the Unknown Regions. As the famous quote from Napoleon goes, "Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics.".
People really don't understand how vital logistics are to an Army/Navy/military in general, it's a make or break aspect of warfare, so much so that many of the most famous failed campaigns & military leaders can be pretty much entirely or, at least, partially tied to logistical oversight/arrogance/etcetera. A military falls apart as a cohesive fighting force pretty quickly once food, fuel, munitions, etcetera stop coming on a consistent basis or stop coming at all.
Empire has huge bulk transport ships - they would be enough to supply SSD and its support fleet even in the unknown regions - empire was really good at logistical support btw.
hey eck, just wanted to tell you how much i appreciate your chanel. I remember days i stayed home from school and just watched your videos all day! Your a great creater and i wish you a great 2024, cheers!
I love this topic. Only you Empire at War players understand the math of Star Wars dreadnoughts. A battleship twelve times the length and twenty times the tonnage of its opponents would be conventionally unstoppable but also an absolute bullseye, especially in a setting where swarms single-seat fighters really can overwhelm a large ship. It happened in real life to the Bismarck and Yamato.
The biplane bombers that attacked the Bismarck have a lot of parallels to the Y-wing starfighter. Both were rather old and considered outdated, yet still proved effective in battle against more modern enemy ships.
#AskEck you brought it up in this video, so here’s a discussion topic for you: reimagine Heir to the Empire with an SSD in Thrawn’s fleet. What would he do with it? Would the SSD make a difference in Thrawn’s campaign or were his plans too complex for his underlings to follow and therefore be ultimately unsuccessful (especially considering he was stabbed in the back). Another angle to consider is what if Thrawn gets a hold of an SSD in Ashoka season 2 -what do you think would happen?
Eck you should do a video of the perfect “police fleet” A fleet that a system would have to protect itself from pirates, smugglers or small enemy fleets You could have multiple episodes one for each faction from the Republic to the New Republic
1 Rendili Dreadnaught - flagship - enough troops to board any pirate ship, its missiles can engage foes outside its vision, and its poor speed is largely irrelevant for defensive duties. 2 Tartans - pursuit ship - fast enough to catch any capital ship, and its ion cannons can disable runaways to allow for boarding. 1 Ton-Falk - fleet carrier - starfighters will catch whatever the Tartans can't. 4 Carracks - gunship - provide defensive cover for the Dreadnaught and Ton-Falk. 2 Nebulon-Bs - sensor - detects hostile ships from afar and helps coordinate the fleet. 6 Raiders - patrol - does what it says on the tin, boring but necessary. During the latter days of the Empire, used Victories and Venators would likely have been cheap enough to replace the Dreadnaught and Ton-Falk in system defence forces.
I would see thrawn using it as a "fleet in being", basically a way to tie down enemy forces where they always had to protect against the threat of an SSD, preventing them from responding quickly to attacks elsewhere and tying up resources (a whole fleet would be needed to counter the SSD theoretically, disregarding rogue squadron shenanigans). He might first use it as a surprise, and then a way to pin down enemy forces and keep them from countering his attacks.
I like it. Battleship Tirpitz and Bismarck terrified the allied powers so much that every single strategic move they considered was influenced by the very fact that they existed. Entire fleets were tied up in harbor just because it was possible Bismarck or Tirpitz could be involved.
Interesting concept for the star wars universe but i think that an SSD is just too massive for an idea like that. I know star wars doesnt usually talk about that but imagine the amount of maintenance and food it takes for the crew just to have this 17km long ship annoy some light rebel forces. The Bismarck can be compared to a normal ISD, which would still be difficult to get rid off in the early ages of the rebellion.
I don't think Thrawn would want a SSD to be his flagship. A ISD is power, and enough agility that he would prefer to be on the Chimera. However Thrawn would find use of a SSD in his fleet tactics. Even if it was such a inelegant, overpowered vessel.
Super Star Destroyer: "You see, you're not dealing with the average Star Destroyer anymore." Rebel Alliance: "We feel like we've been here before. Have we been here before?"
…the algorithm hadn’t shown me one of your videos in years (literally)… …this video was awesome… ..thank you for making me excited about a Star Wars story in years as well…
It would be cool if the canon reason was that Thrawn had some well thought out, highly esoteric reason to eschew one like "the SSD may seem superior to the ISD in every aspect but when it's caught between 4 gravity wells it is a veritable death trap; one potentially catastrophic to the fleet's survival if its commander in chief were to choose it as his residence."
Imagine if Thrawn legit did have an SSD ready for a decisive battle's turnaround. He would've called it in after the Smugglers' attack, but if I remember correctly, the Wayland report and subsequent assassination happened immediately afterwards, so he was distracted. Also, for why Thrawn didn't use one if you want to go with normal play, he probably only had enough men during The Last Command to even properly man it. Because another thing, SSDs are a logistical nightmare. You also need food and parts too for it, and the Empire seemed to be on the backfoot before Thrawn took command. Thrawn was doing more hit and run and being impossible to track. Cannibalizing an SSD could be more useful to keep smaller ships running so as to be everywhere over one single one that would get tracked and attacked at once, and SSDs are notably taken out by almost nothing in Legends a lot beforehand. You also add the whole, "Thrawn is doing all this without even a battlecruiser, how much can we actually hold up against this guy?" going into the fear campaign he did as well.
i can see Thrawn having a Super Star Destroyer that's on the smaller side but faster than its size implies, like the Bellator. interesting fact: the Chiss *are* human, they're skin and eye color started changing at some point due to the planet they settled on. as a result, they got the mixed bag of the Andorian's blue skin, (from Star Trek, minus the antennas) and red eyes of the Nocturneans, (Warhammer 40k) which is also the homeworld of the Salamanders. Vulkan lives!
@@TY-km8hjA Belator or an updated Mandator would've had several benefits. Both are smaller and likely more maneuverable in sublight while be a lot more powerful than a standard ISD. And Politically either could've been passed off as an insult to Thrawn while actually being a reward.
@martyf3698 u summed up it up perfectly, especially the political aspect. The other grand admirals probs would laughe dandy scoffed like Danetta Pitta but Thrawn would just see it as a W
I suspect they would have been weaker overall. Yeah, there's more places to hide their assets, but they need a constant supply of disgruntled Imperial citizens joining up or donating supplies and equipment to keep going. They also need to be close enough to the Empire to harass it, or they just become impotent and ignorable.
I think he would use it like an aircraft carrier/C&C ship for directing operations and not necessarily being on board .Thanks Bud, great work as always.
While I support that the main reason was that Thrawn was a secret Grand Admiral, and given more easily concealed resources as a result, I don't think one can dismiss the fact that Thrawn didn't like unwieldly superweapons and super-capital sized ships, as was done in the beginning of this video. Yes, true, the vessels were already built, and if one was offered to him with no other alternative, he definitely would take it. But that's the key part....no alternative. Put simply, if he was offered a SSD vs 12 more standard ISDs, I believe he would take the latter every single time. Unless he had some very special, very specific, one-off use for such a ship. For every SSD the Empire had, it also had something to the tune of 500+ ISDs or VSDs. Thrawn would easily have picked 12 over 1 SSD but in truth what he may have been given in lieu of a SSD could have been dozens or even hundreds of 'regular' SDs. I don't think anyone can argue with that number of SDs versus a SSD. Legends canon establish how Star Destroyers in general are not the most practical of ships too, being highly capital and manpower intensive. There was still merit to ships the size of ISDs, but the return on resources got worse the more you approached something the size of a SSD. Not a single Executor/Super class SD was appreciated for their logistical return. Every single one of them was used in symbolic and limited decisive roles in the service of any faction. Even Zsinj saw his beloved Iron Fist more as a symbol of his military might rather than a particularly practical weapon...much of his then empire was dedicated to simply supplying the ship itself, in a sign of his fatally impractical vainglory and obsession withb the ship. For a man like Thrawn who intends to secure large parts of the Galaxy and establish order, rather than carve out some small little petty empire for himself where power can be concentrated in a few ships and people, the choice is obvious.
#AskEck: What are your thoughts on Operation Domino and how the Galactic Civil War would've gone if it was successful? I wish we could've gotten more lore about the "Secession Worlds" mentioned in The Essential Guide to Warfare that the Empire crushed early on.
I've been working on a fanfiction series that beefs up the Empire of the Hand (making it stronger and more active, instead of fading away after Thrawn's death and his clone's in Legends - i.e. other authors not named Timothy Zahn completely forgetting about it). Anyway, my Empire of the Hand constructs a new type of Super Star Destroyer to use as its flag ship against the Yuuzhan Vong, and it doubles as a mobile repair station for other capital ships: *Renaissance-class Super Star Destroyer* (about 12 km long) Built: Kuat Drive Yard’s Spiral Shipyards, Nirauan system. Officially finished construction in 21 ABY, but Admiral Parck would occasionally make use of its incomplete state before then. The Renaissance class is a shorter, wider, heavier-set, ship than the more familiar Executor-class SSDs from the old Galactic Empire, taking several design features from the prototype Eclipse class, including integrated interdiction technology, a complement of over 400 TIE Defender fighters, and a superlaser capable of cracking a planetary crust (or a Yuuzhan Vong world ship). Like other Empire of the Hand designs, the Renaissance-class’ bridge is not located in an exposed tower, but rather deep inside the ship, with cameras and a powerful sensor suite compensating for the lack of viewports. Borrowing from Mon Calamari designs, the Renaissance-class also utilizes overlapping shield technology. As well as standard Imperial weaponry like turbolasers, tractor beams and ion cannons, the Renaissance -class also utilizes Chiss Ascendency weaponry such as Plasma ball launchers and breacher missiles. The main difference from the earlier class (and, the “selling point” that convinced then-Grand Moff Xelarra to sign off on its creation) is the ability of the Renaissance-class to carry up to five Imperial or Spiral- class Star Destroyers on the hull itself, with the smaller (but still capital sized) ships docking on five triangular recesses on the main hull, 3 on top of the superstructure, two below. The Renaissance-class can thus act as a mobile repair station as well as the command ship. Its main hanger bay can internally carry ships up to 300 m in length (i.e. the size of an Arquitens-class light cruiser or an Explorer-class research/scout vessel). The Renaissance also has integrated Interdictor technology, and is equipped with several cloaking devices (necessary because of the ship’s size). These two systems cannot normally be used at the same time, though Grand Admiral Thrawn remembers a few tricks learned earlier in his career to get around this limitation. As cloaking devices are double-blind - they protect a ship from detection, but said ship also cannot see outside of it when activated through conventional means, the cloak is most effectively used with the cooperation of an Imperial Knight, who can use the Force to sense outside the cloak. However, with proper timing and practice the cloaks can be used without the assistance of Force-users. As the Empire of the Hand did not sign the Pellaeon-Gavrisom Treaty, they are not prohibited from using cloaking devices. Known vessels in the class: SSD Renaissance CO: Fleet Admiral Voss Parck (19-28 ABY), Grand Admiral Thrawn (28 ABY +) XO: Commodore Eli Vanto (28 ABY+) Starfighter commander: Colonel Jagged Fel (28 ABY +) Flagship of the Navy of the Hand. Displays the same Paccosh signil as the ISD Chimaera on its hull. Commissioned by Fleet Admiral Parck, in anticipation of Grand Admiral Thrawn’s rumoured return in 19 ABY. Thrawn (actually his clone, known as ‘Raw’nuru’ until he was ready to retake the mantle of Grand Admiral) did not take command until the beginning of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, after the Evacuation of Lysatra.
I’ve often seen it said that Thrawn wouldn’t want an SSD, I suspect based on a scene from the first of the new novels where he explains to Eli Vanto that ISD sized vessels and accompanying escorts are the most efficient forms of projected naval power. I’ve made the point before though, not unlike Eck, that Thrawn is not the type to waste an available resource. Indeed a large part of his characterisation is the clever use of what he has available. He usually doesn’t have the biggest, the best, or the most numerous, but he does have the genius to use what he has to win anyway.
I think Thrawn would object to having SSD on two accounts: logistics burden in the UR, and putting too many eggs in one basket. Look at what loss of Executor did at Endor.
If you really think about it... A huge advantage of a SSD is it's size imagine the factory's and research and development center's you could fit on it. For crew you could replace most of them with droids. With the Tie Advance and defender it could hull around hundreds. And if you put in a factory it could produce it's own. Then enemy fighters would be out numberd and out teched. With it's shielding and fire power it could take down the most important ship of an enemy fleet. Thrawn if he had a SSD could turn it into a mobile bass of operations although it is slow it's still faster than a planet and tactically, it is an unmatched opponent give it an escort fleet and an upgraded point defense along with Thrawn's Tie fighters and his tactics and an opponent wouldn't stand a chance.
I think Thrawn would also get a lot of use out of a SSD by using it as a "fleet in being." This is basically a strategy where fleets (or even large ships) are kept in friendly ports with the intention of tying down enemy forces to guard or counter it. He could station the SSD somewhere, wait for the New Republic to redeploy their forces in systems near it, and launch a diversionary attack with great effect.
He didn’t want one. Thrawn didn’t believe in super weapons hence why he didn’t like the death star. Now if they had some of his tie defenders on it Im sure he wouldn’t mind. They would have made a difference in that last battle.
They would have made a difference in ANY battle involving "air' power, BUT they wouldn't have allowed Palpatine to dissolve the Imperial Senate and absorb its, at that point, limited power into his sole control like the Death Star did, and as we all know, ole Sheevy wanted absolute, unfettered and unquestionable authority & power more than anything else.
Thrawn had nothing to do with TIE Defenders, hes actually a big part of why they were never used on a wider scale. It was Grand Admiral Zaarin who oversaw their development
Thrawn with an Executor would more than likely one of two ways. 1: He uses it to distract the NR while running around with the Chrimera. 2: He uses it as a sledge hammer bringing it in to stomp NR fleets already engaged or as a Spearhead
Logistics. He's already out in the Unknown Regions far from the main Imperial supply chains and lines of communications. Even if he's working to establish bases and supply depots out there, imagine trying to keep an SSD properly supplied in what was essentially the middle of nowhere (Chiss Ascendancy notwithstanding). Just think about the challenges involved in doing so. And keeping the SSD properly supplied would also be taking supplies and equipment away from Thrawn's task of establishing those aforementioned bases.
Perhaps if the SSDs could be rejiggered to be more self-sufficient, he could have used it as a mobile base for his various projects, but as he didn’t want or need such a vessel and as you mentioned it would have been problematic for Palps. Great video 👍🏻
For some reason i just picture thrawn's SSD having a sick paint job and pulling handbrake turns/drifting maneuvers that would make the cast of fast and the furious gasp 🤣🤣
If Thrawn had a SSD, I think he would have kept it hidden most of the time. A SSD in Chiss space would have alienated him from any alliance with them. I could see him use it for covert attacks against the Vagarri or Vong probes, but he would use it more as a hidden base. In HTTE, he would use it to guard Mt. Tantiss or as a staging platform to refit the Katana Fleet. At most, he would jump in and out of different sectors to lead the New Republic Navy on a distracting chase while hitting his real targets.
I'd still think Thrawn would vastly prefer a more flexible ship over a completely vulnerable and overly expensive target. Yeah, he would USE it if he had to, but that's like giving him the Death Star or some other brain-dead Imperial weapon of fear rather than of actual utility.
(eckharts saying the Executor is the most powerful ship) Eclipse: Am I a JOKE to you?! Death Star: Pipe down, you are just a fat executor with an axial pea shooter! And don't even start with that "calling me a station" crap. I have engines and move. I am a ship too.
I think the main reasons why Thrawn wouldn't want a SSD is because they're slow, big, probably have low amounts of AA guns, and because it would be a main target for the New Republic/Rebels. If Thrawn did have one, it would be very likely he would use it as a distraction and command from another Star Destroyer, just like already said in the video. Only if Thrawn was able to have a modified version of the SSD, then it could be different. .Manioverment of the Malevolence .A large amount of AA guns Corvettes and other small vessels have .A lot of fighters and bombers being carried aboard it .A Superweapon installed into it, such as the Malevolence's super ion cannons or the Eclipse's large planetary-destroying/ship laser This would make the SSD a lot better for Thrawn and his Imperial Remnants fleet at Peridia.
Not only could I see it as a mobile base, I could see it as a mobile shipyard and factory. I think I heard somewhere that the hanger was almost large enough to take a Victory class. At least early on, then use it to establish mines and factories away from the Republic. Just being able to build Tie Defenders or Avengers as a stop gap or supplement would go a long way into helping Thrawn rebuild the Empire.
I don't remember where I read it, but I thought it was funny that that Ardus Kaine was apparently just about to send Reaper to Thrawn when the battle of Bilbringi happened. It's funny to me regardless of whether that was true or not. Funny in a grim way of "Oh if only I had sent it sooner, we could have still won" or funny in a boasting way like he's saying a meeting "Yknow if I had sent Reaper to Thrawn we would have won."
#AskEck In Legends after Endor, what was life like as or under an Imperial Warlord. How did they rule their territories, maintain the economy, build armies and ships, pay for those armies and ships. I ask for the small Warlords that controlled 1-3 planets but you could talk about the bigger ones like the Pentastar Alignment or Zsinj too.
What did thrawn tell palpatine in regard to “bigger is better”? It was something like “star destroyer sized warships and accompanying support craft is the most flexible fleet arrangement in both offensive actions and defensive actions”
I agree just because he opposed the construction of said ship he would not oppose using it if it were put in front of him. And yea he would have used it as a base of opp in the unknown. Im honestly shocked he wasn't given the first one off the line to then be sent out into the unknown to do his thing. DUH!
6:40 You can have an SSD hid in a nebula while you have SD, or Victories running around scouting and causing hell or not all while giving you a base of operations to rebuild what you have lost. The SSD is a mini manufacturing facility. VITAL!
I agree, if it was being built he would have disapproved but if already built he would have found a use for it. I would use it as a mobile base rather than a front line ship. Also would have tried to get more of the tie defenders for my pilots.
from the narrative perspective giving him an ISD is pretty genious, since after we saw those deadly ships being controlled by morons it's refreshing to see them being used to their full potential and absolutely deadly. Although I'd love to see him have an Allegiance battlecruiser as his right hand to be used as a deadly finishing move, jumping from a nearby starsystem mid battle to show up and wreck havoc
Potential Thrawn Idea: "Super Starfighter Trap" - Put a lone SSD in the battle area, tempt New Republic to send swarms of starfighters to destroy it, use Interdictors to vector in Lancer Frigates to decimate said starfighter swarms.
In Disney, he wouldn't have had one due to SSD's coming into play after Yavin with Vader getting the first one...which was after Thrawn was chucked out of the galaxy. In Legends, there's a massive suggestion that Thrawn did have at least one SSD with him when he was sent on his mission. It wasn't an Executor class, and is assumed to be the same basic frame as either the Arc Hammer or the production version of the type destroyed during the Dawn of Defiance campaign over Byss (The "Sarlacc Class" naming by the codename of the project of the prototype). It was lost or left behind when he returned to the Empire along with most of his forces.
In the Essential Guide to Warfare, several Executor-class Star Dreadnoughts were sent to the Unknown Regions by Emperor Palpatine. So, that being said, I wonder if those Dreadnoughts were constructed at top secret shipyards away from the eyes of Thrawn's rivals?
I agree with your point about Thrawn using the SSD as a fake command post in battle while leading from else where, very good point. I disagree though about the SSD in the unknown regions / chaos because as we see in Episode 5 when faced with asteroids or debris, the bigger ship would get damaged more
I can Imagine Thrawn being bored with an SSD; his stock in trade was coordinated assaults. An SSD can only be in one place at a time and still needs a great deal of support craft. This limits the recourses available for other strikes. I seem to recall somewhere that he even favored the venerable old Victory SDs over such large boondoggles as an SSD. On the other hand, I could see Thrawn absolutely begging the Emperor for access to a World Devastator. Even one in his hands in the Unknown Regions would give him the logistic and fabrication framework that could properly support his strategic brilliance.
Didn't you ever read the books? I am sure you did, because I could swear you brought this exact point of mine up in the past. Thrawn hated SSDs, seeing them as massive wastes of resources, which is why his main capitol ship was a simple SD. The whole bit with the Penta's Reaper was one-sided and not on Thrawn's part, he would have used it maybe as a trap, but not in any ongoing effort. You can achieve the same firepower with less resources, and have more mobility and options with multiple SDs as opposed to a SSD. It was well written out and one of the defining features of Thrawn's character, insisting on strategy and tactics to outplay his opponents than any ignorant Tarkin Doctrine strategy of fear.
Having not watched the video yet...In Legends he was already sent to the unknown regions on his mission to Chiss space and in Canon he was already on Peridea due to the events of Star Wars Rebels before the first SSD was ever completed and deployed which was given to Vader. That's the answer.
Agree that the political basis and intrigue of the inner workings of the empire would certainly make it difficult for Sidious to bestow a SSD on thrown without some controversy. However, think that the resource and military costs of maintaining such a weapon of war, while stranded in the unknown regions and even more importantly he doesn't need one in order to bring the new republic to its knees as he did in the legends verse. Though having one, once he had the clones and resources to crew it properly would have given him an edge for a key and crucial battle such as bilbringi that new republic could never anticipate before it was too late.
Me as well, id like to see a video/videos of the different types of fuel and what they're each used for, Rhydonium, Tibanna, Klouzon I think its called, etcetera.
Thrawn is good enough to not NEED a SSD, but if he had one, oh boy! Plus Palpatine knew Thrawn would never truly be 100% loyal to the empire. He would never betray the empire, but he would keep secrets if it protected the Chiss. That’s the only reason Thrawn joined the empire, to gain an ally to help the Chiss when a serious threat came
7:47 Captain Gilad Pellaeon thought to himself that the battle was not lost, that Thrawn could still have won it ... but he couldn't. That was why he ordered the retreat. Since we know he was a highly experienced, and level-headed navy man, and knew what Thrawn was capable of perhaps best of all, I am inclined to trust his judgement.
Happy New Years Eck! Hope you, Mrs. Eck and the little Ecks enjoyed the holidays! 😊 Loved the video and very interesting the idea of SSDs being political favours. Dumb af, but so was the Empire’s bureaucracy. With Star Wars drawing on more and more bits from Legends, I would LOVE to see some of Thrawn’s elite troopers do a heist-type mission on Corusant so we could see the Lusankya’s rise happen in live action within the current/upcoming Thrawn arc. Shit would be iconic.
#AskEck Okay, if Thrawn isn't going to get an SSD (or other Dreadnought sized warship) from the Emperor for the reasons you described but lets say the Emperor talks to Thrawn one day and says "name one OTHER ship in the fleet and it is yours my loyal servant." What is the one single ship Thrawn would have asked for (presumably that he didn't have already, I guess he could always ask for yet another ISD but that's not fun). I have an idea what it would be but I don't want to bias you; but lets just say its initials confusingly happened to be ISD.
I feel like Thrawn would want some kind of factory ship, like his own personal Altor tender to support extended operations abroad. Maybe modify it to produce good fighters for his command and subordinates. That's if we're talking a singular ship.
@@apathymanthemundane4165 Yea, a factory ship would be great both when he's out taming the Unknown Regions then after he gets back and finds the Empire in shambles (although he wouldn't know the ship would be useful for that at the time). Although I don't know about it being able to produce "good" fighters, by that I take it to mean fighters that aren't standard Imperial designs. Doubtful they'd be able to cook those up on their own, even if they did they aren't going to match what Raith Sienar and his design teams cook up in terms of efficiency. At best they'd be able to turn out TIEs modified with things like shield generators or missiles at the expense of the features that make a TIE effective. They might be able to build Starwings and Skipray Blastboats at really low production rates (although it might be more efficient just to put in a requisition for them), I doubt TIE/Ds and TIE/ADs are coming off a factory ship due to the complexity unless maybe they stripped out the hyperdrives; since I doubt such small hyperdrives are easy to build and frankly a TIE/D without one would still be a damn good fighter.
A Lucrehulk or Venator, something that can carry a ton of troops and/or fighters. Or maybe a World Devastator if that was invented and Thrawn knew about it, more due to the fact that it's essentially a mini Star Forge than anything.
I always wondered how serious Kane was about joing up with Thrawn - I really think that even if Thrawn had survived Billbringi, he’d pretty much already lost the battle and Mount Tantis was gone. No way Kane would join up THEN Maybe if he won Billbringi but I’m not certain if he was in a place to do so
Kaine definitely saw how competent thrawn was, assuming thrawn wins billbringi Kaine sees what he’s able to do with such a small-mid sized fleet and he would definitely be curious to see how he would work with a massive fleet.
The Thrawn series of books would have been a little different if he had one but he wrecked the New Republic without it. the Chimaera was scary enough with him in command.
Consider this: one SSD was able to take down the planetary shields of Coruscant itself in the escape from that planet of Isard. Believe me, there is a reason to put so much firepower on one ship.
I always figured he just preferred smaller ships. He loves frigates and cruisers. His tactics usually require maneuverability and speed not a giant slow ship.
Palpatine had to nerf Thrawn fr, if he had one he’d be too elite
He’s so elite that even StarWars writers had to nerf him several times, it’s still not enough 😱
He didn't NEED a super to compensate for weaknesses, unlike Vader.
Frfr lol
I concur...
On god
Thrawn with a SSD would had been unstopable, but the idea of him having a standard ISD demonstrates that his strategies works quite well no matter what ship he commands
If they had built a large ISD fleet carrying Tie Defenders instead of building two Death Stars, the republic would have been finished soon. o.O
When there's no enemy to face the conflicts would become Civil Wars, moffs looking to rise above their station, perhaps even a coalition, held together only by constant management and likely assasinations - Palpatine wanted a hands off empire, controlling the biggest toy that nobody could match, if not for the critical and intentional flaw of the first by a subtle traitor, or man eating teddy bears (the local wildlife) rendering the second vulnerable, he'd have had his wish easily. Hell without the Emperors death and his battle meditator abandoning his post to go look for the Emperor they still could have won the second battle easily@@Casey093
@@Casey093 Honestly tho, literally all the Rebels could do was run away from a tie defender.
I think we can all agree that whatever he would have done with a SSD, it would have been *artistically* done.
Yeah, it would be basically as easy as a brush stroke.
Imagine an SSD with Chimeras design or something underneath on the belly
Another thing I could note is the cost of maintaining a SSD. Considering that thrawn was in the unknown regions cut off from the now fractured empire he probably wouldn’t have the resources to maintain it
Bingo, I don't know how long fuel lasts in Star Wars, and I don't know how hard it is to refine, but it seems to me like a SSD would be the GAS HOG of the SW universe, the proverbial "boat" of a car like an old Cadillac or something. Not to mention all the food, water, and other necessities a huge crew would need to simply survive. I don't know what the advantages of an SSD are, but if it doesn't have more "air power" like fighter launch capabilities and/or a significant turbolaser capability increase over a regular SD, then its definitely not worth the resources it would take to run one (or several) in the scenario that post-Endor would have caused in terns of the usual supply lines/logistical break down that would have occurred, unless Thrawn could have set up his own supply channels/lines and sources and what not but I doubt even a man of Thrawns abilities could have figured up a consistent, reliable supply source for a fleet of any considerable size, much less more than one fleet, SSD's included or not.
@@lastmanstanding-xp3ub supposedly they gain fuel from taking particles from hyperspace and channeling the energy they produce to go back as well as nuclear fusion via Tibanna Gas or Gas from Gas giants however I think it can survive a few weeks on full fuel though it wouldn't be combat ready
"Can't lose the battle if you get assassinated before it's over."
-Sun Tzu Thrawn
There is actually a passage in the original Thrawn trilogy, where he considers the loss of the Death Star and how in his opinion the only real loss was, that it took the Executor with it.
Thrawn probably regretted the loss of the talented crew and officers.Although not without risk, serving onboard Vader's personal command ship was seen as a way to gain rank within the Imperial Navy. Thus there was a lot of competition to serve in Vader's fleet which attracted the most talented crews.
SSD's are such beautiful ships. It's a shame every time one gets lost.
Thrawn stuck me as a man who would have looked at the SSD and gone something like
"The money that went into this could have bought many normal SDs that would be more flexible from a tactical and strategic standpoint..."
His only regret at the loss of the DS2 and the Executor was that their loss took out the best and the brightest of the Empire's officers and enlisted men with them, which he would have considered real and actual valuable resources.
That's actually from Pellaeon's point of view, not Thrawn's.
@@SoranPryde the one thing he may have valued it for is to be placed in loyal hands and utterly shutdown and rogue forces - more than just a mere destroyer but rather warlords - such as if the northern warlords had emerged during the empires time
I feel like he also wouldn't want one. An Imperial Star Destroyer was already at the max of size for a ship he'd find use for. He preferred smaller more easily moved and maintained ships.
He's have it as his back up one jump away
I think he would have turned it into a logistic ship and added a lot of Star destroyer docks for resupply.
But even he would not refuse such an offer if its already been built.
@@CHRF-55457 he won't refuse it definitely, Thrawn isn't one to throw away Ships or chances , neither misuse and 2aste them , He would have it as a Hammer , A wall In reserve or In the Rear most ranks or In a System one jump away , like Pellion did at battle of Orinda with the Dominion or Megador
It jus makes me think of the aftermath of the HMS Hood & Battleship Bismarck Incident in World War II, after it became clear that these huge warships were more of a hinderance, navies took to smaller, more agile ships! Gone were your Man-of-War, your Dreadnaught, your Cruiser, in were Frigates, Destroyers and Aircraft Carriers, the latter now taking up the mantle of Flagship, like the Ark Royal and the Enterprise, the former actaully instrumental in sinking of the Bismarck and the ship of my hometown!
I'd also imagine that resupplying an SSD would've been a massive pain and slowed down Thrawn's operations significantly, especially in the Unknown Regions. As the famous quote from Napoleon goes, "Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics.".
People really don't understand how vital logistics are to an Army/Navy/military in general, it's a make or break aspect of warfare, so much so that many of the most famous failed campaigns & military leaders can be pretty much entirely or, at least, partially tied to logistical oversight/arrogance/etcetera. A military falls apart as a cohesive fighting force pretty quickly once food, fuel, munitions, etcetera stop coming on a consistent basis or stop coming at all.
I thought that was sun tzu?
Empire has huge bulk transport ships - they would be enough to supply SSD and its support fleet even in the unknown regions - empire was really good at logistical support btw.
hey eck, just wanted to tell you how much i appreciate your chanel. I remember days i stayed home from school and just watched your videos all day! Your a great creater and i wish you a great 2024, cheers!
Creator
I love this topic. Only you Empire at War players understand the math of Star Wars dreadnoughts. A battleship twelve times the length and twenty times the tonnage of its opponents would be conventionally unstoppable but also an absolute bullseye, especially in a setting where swarms single-seat fighters really can overwhelm a large ship. It happened in real life to the Bismarck and Yamato.
The biplane bombers that attacked the Bismarck have a lot of parallels to the Y-wing starfighter. Both were rather old and considered outdated, yet still proved effective in battle against more modern enemy ships.
@@InventorZahran This
#AskEck you brought it up in this video, so here’s a discussion topic for you: reimagine Heir to the Empire with an SSD in Thrawn’s fleet. What would he do with it? Would the SSD make a difference in Thrawn’s campaign or were his plans too complex for his underlings to follow and therefore be ultimately unsuccessful (especially considering he was stabbed in the back).
Another angle to consider is what if Thrawn gets a hold of an SSD in Ashoka season 2 -what do you think would happen?
The Ashoka Thrawn would probably mistake it for a dorito and eat it.
Pelleon would have one in reserve just for him.
Eck you should do a video of the perfect “police fleet”
A fleet that a system would have to protect itself from pirates, smugglers or small enemy fleets
You could have multiple episodes one for each faction from the Republic to the New Republic
1 Rendili Dreadnaught - flagship - enough troops to board any pirate ship, its missiles can engage foes outside its vision, and its poor speed is largely irrelevant for defensive duties.
2 Tartans - pursuit ship - fast enough to catch any capital ship, and its ion cannons can disable runaways to allow for boarding.
1 Ton-Falk - fleet carrier - starfighters will catch whatever the Tartans can't.
4 Carracks - gunship - provide defensive cover for the Dreadnaught and Ton-Falk.
2 Nebulon-Bs - sensor - detects hostile ships from afar and helps coordinate the fleet.
6 Raiders - patrol - does what it says on the tin, boring but necessary.
During the latter days of the Empire, used Victories and Venators would likely have been cheap enough to replace the Dreadnaught and Ton-Falk in system defence forces.
I would see thrawn using it as a "fleet in being", basically a way to tie down enemy forces where they always had to protect against the threat of an SSD, preventing them from responding quickly to attacks elsewhere and tying up resources (a whole fleet would be needed to counter the SSD theoretically, disregarding rogue squadron shenanigans). He might first use it as a surprise, and then a way to pin down enemy forces and keep them from countering his attacks.
I like it. Battleship Tirpitz and Bismarck terrified the allied powers so much that every single strategic move they considered was influenced by the very fact that they existed. Entire fleets were tied up in harbor just because it was possible Bismarck or Tirpitz could be involved.
@@toospooky051 tirpitz and Bismarck were part of where I got the idea from.
Interesting concept for the star wars universe but i think that an SSD is just too massive for an idea like that. I know star wars doesnt usually talk about that but imagine the amount of maintenance and food it takes for the crew just to have this 17km long ship annoy some light rebel forces.
The Bismarck can be compared to a normal ISD, which would still be difficult to get rid off in the early ages of the rebellion.
I don't think Thrawn would want a SSD to be his flagship. A ISD is power, and enough agility that he would prefer to be on the Chimera. However Thrawn would find use of a SSD in his fleet tactics. Even if it was such a inelegant, overpowered vessel.
Back up force , one system jump away , in case plan F0cks up badly .... like a Jedi showing up or Assasin killing the Artist
Super Star Destroyer: "You see, you're not dealing with the average Star Destroyer anymore."
Rebel Alliance: "We feel like we've been here before. Have we been here before?"
“I understood that reference.” - Goku probably
Does the SSD come with a Muffin Button?
There is no Muffin button!@@bobs1422
I wanna be a super star destroyer! I wanna! I wanna! I wanna!
SSD: "I AM A SUPER STAR DESTROYER!!!"
RA: "Oh my Republic, this is happening again!"
…the algorithm hadn’t shown me one of your videos in years (literally)…
…this video was awesome…
..thank you for making me excited about a Star Wars story in years as well…
It would be cool if the canon reason was that Thrawn had some well thought out, highly esoteric reason to eschew one like "the SSD may seem superior to the ISD in every aspect but when it's caught between 4 gravity wells it is a veritable death trap; one potentially catastrophic to the fleet's survival if its commander in chief were to choose it as his residence."
Palpatine: You are in this navy, but we do not guarant you a SSD
Thrawn: This is outrageous, it's unfair
Imagine if Thrawn legit did have an SSD ready for a decisive battle's turnaround. He would've called it in after the Smugglers' attack, but if I remember correctly, the Wayland report and subsequent assassination happened immediately afterwards, so he was distracted.
Also, for why Thrawn didn't use one if you want to go with normal play, he probably only had enough men during The Last Command to even properly man it. Because another thing, SSDs are a logistical nightmare. You also need food and parts too for it, and the Empire seemed to be on the backfoot before Thrawn took command. Thrawn was doing more hit and run and being impossible to track. Cannibalizing an SSD could be more useful to keep smaller ships running so as to be everywhere over one single one that would get tracked and attacked at once, and SSDs are notably taken out by almost nothing in Legends a lot beforehand. You also add the whole, "Thrawn is doing all this without even a battlecruiser, how much can we actually hold up against this guy?" going into the fear campaign he did as well.
i can see Thrawn having a Super Star Destroyer that's on the smaller side but faster than its size implies, like the Bellator.
interesting fact: the Chiss *are* human, they're skin and eye color started changing at some point due to the planet they settled on.
as a result, they got the mixed bag of the Andorian's blue skin, (from Star Trek, minus the antennas) and red eyes of the Nocturneans, (Warhammer 40k) which is also the homeworld of the Salamanders.
Vulkan lives!
A Ballator or even an updated mandator would fit him perfectly
In legends there was a executor prototype it was 8 km short than the standard executor class
@@TY-km8hjA Belator or an updated Mandator would've had several benefits. Both are smaller and likely more maneuverable in sublight while be a lot more powerful than a standard ISD. And Politically either could've been passed off as an insult to Thrawn while actually being a reward.
@martyf3698 u summed up it up perfectly, especially the political aspect. The other grand admirals probs would laughe dandy scoffed like Danetta Pitta but Thrawn would just see it as a W
Pelleon in the books thought about what thrawn could have done with the executor if it hadnt been destroyed
#AskEck How much stronger would the Rebellion be if they set up in the unknown regions?
They did to an extent...but likely they would have been destroyed by the Chiss.
@@justinlast2lastharder749Maybe the Rebels would have formed an alliance with the Chiss.
@@STSWB5SG1FAN the Chiss probably would’ve leaned towards the empire over the RA
I suspect they would have been weaker overall. Yeah, there's more places to hide their assets, but they need a constant supply of disgruntled Imperial citizens joining up or donating supplies and equipment to keep going. They also need to be close enough to the Empire to harass it, or they just become impotent and ignorable.
@@michaelramon2411 this. Not to mention the additional threats in that area, like Nuso Esva
after a one year leave from the internet itself i am back to grind ur videos and the first one i see is just fun
*_Thrawn doesn't need to compensate_*
It's not just the resources needed to build the things, but also the resources needed to _maintain_ them.
I think he would use it like an aircraft carrier/C&C ship for directing operations and not necessarily being on board .Thanks Bud, great work as always.
wtf I thought there was only one. Having many cheapens its extravagance.
While I support that the main reason was that Thrawn was a secret Grand Admiral, and given more easily concealed resources as a result, I don't think one can dismiss the fact that Thrawn didn't like unwieldly superweapons and super-capital sized ships, as was done in the beginning of this video. Yes, true, the vessels were already built, and if one was offered to him with no other alternative, he definitely would take it. But that's the key part....no alternative. Put simply, if he was offered a SSD vs 12 more standard ISDs, I believe he would take the latter every single time. Unless he had some very special, very specific, one-off use for such a ship. For every SSD the Empire had, it also had something to the tune of 500+ ISDs or VSDs. Thrawn would easily have picked 12 over 1 SSD but in truth what he may have been given in lieu of a SSD could have been dozens or even hundreds of 'regular' SDs. I don't think anyone can argue with that number of SDs versus a SSD.
Legends canon establish how Star Destroyers in general are not the most practical of ships too, being highly capital and manpower intensive. There was still merit to ships the size of ISDs, but the return on resources got worse the more you approached something the size of a SSD. Not a single Executor/Super class SD was appreciated for their logistical return. Every single one of them was used in symbolic and limited decisive roles in the service of any faction. Even Zsinj saw his beloved Iron Fist more as a symbol of his military might rather than a particularly practical weapon...much of his then empire was dedicated to simply supplying the ship itself, in a sign of his fatally impractical vainglory and obsession withb the ship. For a man like Thrawn who intends to secure large parts of the Galaxy and establish order, rather than carve out some small little petty empire for himself where power can be concentrated in a few ships and people, the choice is obvious.
I feel like eck has to talk about this at least once a year
#AskEck: What are your thoughts on Operation Domino and how the Galactic Civil War would've gone if it was successful? I wish we could've gotten more lore about the "Secession Worlds" mentioned in The Essential Guide to Warfare that the Empire crushed early on.
Operation domino? No one out pizzas the huts!
I've been working on a fanfiction series that beefs up the Empire of the Hand (making it stronger and more active, instead of fading away after Thrawn's death and his clone's in Legends - i.e. other authors not named Timothy Zahn completely forgetting about it). Anyway, my Empire of the Hand constructs a new type of Super Star Destroyer to use as its flag ship against the Yuuzhan Vong, and it doubles as a mobile repair station for other capital ships:
*Renaissance-class Super Star Destroyer* (about 12 km long)
Built: Kuat Drive Yard’s Spiral Shipyards, Nirauan system. Officially finished construction in 21 ABY, but Admiral Parck would occasionally make use of its incomplete state before then.
The Renaissance class is a shorter, wider, heavier-set, ship than the more familiar Executor-class SSDs from the old Galactic Empire, taking several design features from the prototype Eclipse class, including integrated interdiction technology, a complement of over 400 TIE Defender fighters, and a superlaser capable of cracking a planetary crust (or a Yuuzhan Vong world ship). Like other Empire of the Hand designs, the Renaissance-class’ bridge is not located in an exposed tower, but rather deep inside the ship, with cameras and a powerful sensor suite compensating for the lack of viewports. Borrowing from Mon Calamari designs, the Renaissance-class also utilizes overlapping shield technology. As well as standard Imperial weaponry like turbolasers, tractor beams and ion cannons, the Renaissance -class also utilizes Chiss Ascendency weaponry such as Plasma ball launchers and breacher missiles.
The main difference from the earlier class (and, the “selling point” that convinced then-Grand Moff Xelarra to sign off on its creation) is the ability of the Renaissance-class to carry up to five Imperial or Spiral- class Star Destroyers on the hull itself, with the smaller (but still capital sized) ships docking on five triangular recesses on the main hull, 3 on top of the superstructure, two below. The Renaissance-class can thus act as a mobile repair station as well as the command ship. Its main hanger bay can internally carry ships up to 300 m in length (i.e. the size of an Arquitens-class light cruiser or an Explorer-class research/scout vessel).
The Renaissance also has integrated Interdictor technology, and is equipped with several cloaking devices (necessary because of the ship’s size). These two systems cannot normally be used at the same time, though Grand Admiral Thrawn remembers a few tricks learned earlier in his career to get around this limitation. As cloaking devices are double-blind - they protect a ship from detection, but said ship also cannot see outside of it when activated through conventional means, the cloak is most effectively used with the cooperation of an Imperial Knight, who can use the Force to sense outside the cloak. However, with proper timing and practice the cloaks can be used without the assistance of Force-users.
As the Empire of the Hand did not sign the Pellaeon-Gavrisom Treaty, they are not prohibited from using cloaking devices.
Known vessels in the class:
SSD Renaissance
CO: Fleet Admiral Voss Parck (19-28 ABY), Grand Admiral Thrawn (28 ABY +)
XO: Commodore Eli Vanto (28 ABY+)
Starfighter commander: Colonel Jagged Fel (28 ABY +)
Flagship of the Navy of the Hand. Displays the same Paccosh signil as the ISD Chimaera on its hull.
Commissioned by Fleet Admiral Parck, in anticipation of Grand Admiral Thrawn’s rumoured return in 19 ABY. Thrawn (actually his clone, known as ‘Raw’nuru’ until he was ready to retake the mantle of Grand Admiral) did not take command until the beginning of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, after the Evacuation of Lysatra.
Imagine if Thrawn bad an Eclipse SSD
I’ve often seen it said that Thrawn wouldn’t want an SSD, I suspect based on a scene from the first of the new novels where he explains to Eli Vanto that ISD sized vessels and accompanying escorts are the most efficient forms of projected naval power.
I’ve made the point before though, not unlike Eck, that Thrawn is not the type to waste an available resource. Indeed a large part of his characterisation is the clever use of what he has available. He usually doesn’t have the biggest, the best, or the most numerous, but he does have the genius to use what he has to win anyway.
I think Thrawn would object to having SSD on two accounts: logistics burden in the UR, and putting too many eggs in one basket. Look at what loss of Executor did at Endor.
6:35 uh, wait, why is Thrawn dressed as Boba Fett? Or just, a Mandalorian? That is such a weird thing to see, and with freaking Darth Vader there, too
If you really think about it...
A huge advantage of a SSD is it's size imagine the factory's and research and development center's you could fit on it.
For crew you could replace most of them with droids. With the Tie Advance and defender it could hull around hundreds. And if you put in a factory it could produce it's own. Then enemy fighters would be out numberd and out teched. With it's shielding and fire power it could take down the most important ship of an enemy fleet.
Thrawn if he had a SSD could turn it into a mobile bass of operations although it is slow it's still faster than a planet and tactically, it is an unmatched opponent give it an escort fleet and an upgraded point defense along with Thrawn's Tie fighters and his tactics and an opponent wouldn't stand a chance.
I can imagine Thrawn would have seen a Super Star Destroyer like a master Swordsman would see a Warhammer.
I think Thrawn would also get a lot of use out of a SSD by using it as a "fleet in being." This is basically a strategy where fleets (or even large ships) are kept in friendly ports with the intention of tying down enemy forces to guard or counter it. He could station the SSD somewhere, wait for the New Republic to redeploy their forces in systems near it, and launch a diversionary attack with great effect.
Thrawn + The Reaper SSD + VADER + The Death Star II + The Dark Reaper - Useless weak Politicians - Palpatine = The Yuzhan Vong Decimated🤯☠️
Happy New Year, Justin of EchkhartsLadder!
Could you imagine seeing the Chimera paint on the bottom of an Executor Class? MAN that would look great.
Grand Admiral Thrawn: "I'm surrounded by idiots."
Ezra Bridger: "I thought you're surrounded by gumdrops and ice cream."
Bruh the bots are faster than real people
Don't think he'd appreciate an Executor SSD, but a Resurgence Destroyer would be right up his alley.
He didn’t want one. Thrawn didn’t believe in super weapons hence why he didn’t like the death star. Now if they had some of his tie defenders on it Im sure he wouldn’t mind. They would have made a difference in that last battle.
They would have made a difference in ANY battle involving "air' power, BUT they wouldn't have allowed Palpatine to dissolve the Imperial Senate and absorb its, at that point, limited power into his sole control like the Death Star did, and as we all know, ole Sheevy wanted absolute, unfettered and unquestionable authority & power more than anything else.
Thrawn had nothing to do with TIE Defenders, hes actually a big part of why they were never used on a wider scale. It was Grand Admiral Zaarin who oversaw their development
Thrawn with an Executor would more than likely one of two ways.
1: He uses it to distract the NR while running around with the Chrimera.
2: He uses it as a sledge hammer bringing it in to stomp NR fleets already engaged or as a Spearhead
I want to make a meme with that image with the dominos with
"Palpatine not giving Thrawn a SSD"
"The fall of the empire"
Pretty sure Thrawn didn't like the SSD as it was, in his opinion, tactically difficult to plan around.
Logistics. He's already out in the Unknown Regions far from the main Imperial supply chains and lines of communications. Even if he's working to establish bases and supply depots out there, imagine trying to keep an SSD properly supplied in what was essentially the middle of nowhere (Chiss Ascendancy notwithstanding). Just think about the challenges involved in doing so. And keeping the SSD properly supplied would also be taking supplies and equipment away from Thrawn's task of establishing those aforementioned bases.
Perhaps if the SSDs could be rejiggered to be more self-sufficient, he could have used it as a mobile base for his various projects, but as he didn’t want or need such a vessel and as you mentioned it would have been problematic for Palps.
Great video 👍🏻
For some reason i just picture thrawn's SSD having a sick paint job and pulling handbrake turns/drifting maneuvers that would make the cast of fast and the furious gasp 🤣🤣
If Thrawn had a SSD, I think he would have kept it hidden most of the time. A SSD in Chiss space would have alienated him from any alliance with them. I could see him use it for covert attacks against the Vagarri or Vong probes, but he would use it more as a hidden base. In HTTE, he would use it to guard Mt. Tantiss or as a staging platform to refit the Katana Fleet. At most, he would jump in and out of different sectors to lead the New Republic Navy on a distracting chase while hitting his real targets.
I'd still think Thrawn would vastly prefer a more flexible ship over a completely vulnerable and overly expensive target.
Yeah, he would USE it if he had to, but that's like giving him the Death Star or some other brain-dead Imperial weapon of fear rather than of actual utility.
Would love to see an SSD in the upcoming shows / movies Thrawn will be in. Even though its unlikely it's been forever since we've seen one in film
(eckharts saying the Executor is the most powerful ship)
Eclipse: Am I a JOKE to you?!
Death Star: Pipe down, you are just a fat executor with an axial pea shooter! And don't even start with that "calling me a station" crap. I have engines and move. I am a ship too.
I think the main reasons why Thrawn wouldn't want a SSD is because they're slow, big, probably have low amounts of AA guns, and because it would be a main target for the New Republic/Rebels.
If Thrawn did have one, it would be very likely he would use it as a distraction and command from another Star Destroyer, just like already said in the video.
Only if Thrawn was able to have a modified version of the SSD, then it could be different.
.Manioverment of the Malevolence
.A large amount of AA guns Corvettes and other small vessels have
.A lot of fighters and bombers being carried aboard it
.A Superweapon installed into it, such as the Malevolence's super ion cannons or the Eclipse's large planetary-destroying/ship laser
This would make the SSD a lot better for Thrawn and his Imperial Remnants fleet at Peridia.
Not only could I see it as a mobile base, I could see it as a mobile shipyard and factory. I think I heard somewhere that the hanger was almost large enough to take a Victory class. At least early on, then use it to establish mines and factories away from the Republic. Just being able to build Tie Defenders or Avengers as a stop gap or supplement would go a long way into helping Thrawn rebuild the Empire.
Thrawn is a Giga Chad. He doesn't need to compensate for anything.
He ate it.
(Disney live action version)
I don't remember where I read it, but I thought it was funny that that Ardus Kaine was apparently just about to send Reaper to Thrawn when the battle of Bilbringi happened. It's funny to me regardless of whether that was true or not. Funny in a grim way of "Oh if only I had sent it sooner, we could have still won" or funny in a boasting way like he's saying a meeting "Yknow if I had sent Reaper to Thrawn we would have won."
More important then national news if you ask me.
#AskEck In Legends after Endor, what was life like as or under an Imperial Warlord. How did they rule their territories, maintain the economy, build armies and ships, pay for those armies and ships. I ask for the small Warlords that controlled 1-3 planets but you could talk about the bigger ones like the Pentastar Alignment or Zsinj too.
whenever i hear hopefully this coming year will be better i almost cry
my brother died yesterday and this year is aready the worst
What did thrawn tell palpatine in regard to “bigger is better”? It was something like “star destroyer sized warships and accompanying support craft is the most flexible fleet arrangement in both offensive actions and defensive actions”
I agree just because he opposed the construction of said ship he would not oppose using it if it were put in front of him. And yea he would have used it as a base of opp in the unknown. Im honestly shocked he wasn't given the first one off the line to then be sent out into the unknown to do his thing. DUH!
6:40 You can have an SSD hid in a nebula while you have SD, or Victories running around scouting and causing hell or not all while giving you a base of operations to rebuild what you have lost. The SSD is a mini manufacturing facility. VITAL!
I agree, if it was being built he would have disapproved but if already built he would have found a use for it. I would use it as a mobile base rather than a front line ship. Also would have tried to get more of the tie defenders for my pilots.
from the narrative perspective giving him an ISD is pretty genious, since after we saw those deadly ships being controlled by morons it's refreshing to see them being used to their full potential and absolutely deadly.
Although I'd love to see him have an Allegiance battlecruiser as his right hand to be used as a deadly finishing move, jumping from a nearby starsystem mid battle to show up and wreck havoc
I thought Thrawn didn’t get one because he was sent out to the Unknown Regions before the Executor-line even left the production line.
If Thrawn had a SSD, there would have been no New Republic.
The ship would work perfectly for Thrawn's ambush tactics.
Potential Thrawn Idea: "Super Starfighter Trap" - Put a lone SSD in the battle area, tempt New Republic to send swarms of starfighters to destroy it, use Interdictors to vector in Lancer Frigates to decimate said starfighter swarms.
In Disney, he wouldn't have had one due to SSD's coming into play after Yavin with Vader getting the first one...which was after Thrawn was chucked out of the galaxy.
In Legends, there's a massive suggestion that Thrawn did have at least one SSD with him when he was sent on his mission. It wasn't an Executor class, and is assumed to be the same basic frame as either the Arc Hammer or the production version of the type destroyed during the Dawn of Defiance campaign over Byss (The "Sarlacc Class" naming by the codename of the project of the prototype). It was lost or left behind when he returned to the Empire along with most of his forces.
In the Essential Guide to Warfare, several Executor-class Star Dreadnoughts were sent to the Unknown Regions by Emperor Palpatine. So, that being said, I wonder if those Dreadnoughts were constructed at top secret shipyards away from the eyes of Thrawn's rivals?
I agree with your point about Thrawn using the SSD as a fake command post in battle while leading from else where, very good point. I disagree though about the SSD in the unknown regions / chaos because as we see in Episode 5 when faced with asteroids or debris, the bigger ship would get damaged more
I can Imagine Thrawn being bored with an SSD; his stock in trade was coordinated assaults. An SSD can only be in one place at a time and still needs a great deal of support craft. This limits the recourses available for other strikes. I seem to recall somewhere that he even favored the venerable old Victory SDs over such large boondoggles as an SSD. On the other hand, I could see Thrawn absolutely begging the Emperor for access to a World Devastator. Even one in his hands in the Unknown Regions would give him the logistic and fabrication framework that could properly support his strategic brilliance.
I don’t think he’d want one, focusing all your resources on one ship losing versatility, compared to having the equivalent finding into regular ISDs
Didn't you ever read the books? I am sure you did, because I could swear you brought this exact point of mine up in the past.
Thrawn hated SSDs, seeing them as massive wastes of resources, which is why his main capitol ship was a simple SD. The whole bit with the Penta's Reaper was one-sided and not on Thrawn's part, he would have used it maybe as a trap, but not in any ongoing effort. You can achieve the same firepower with less resources, and have more mobility and options with multiple SDs as opposed to a SSD. It was well written out and one of the defining features of Thrawn's character, insisting on strategy and tactics to outplay his opponents than any ignorant Tarkin Doctrine strategy of fear.
great video, explains a lot!
Thrawn is smart enough to know that sometimes it's just easier and makes more sense to grab the hammer instead of the scapel.
I agree thrown would definitely use a super star destroyer as a base of operations or maybe an R&R facility for his men
Having not watched the video yet...In Legends he was already sent to the unknown regions on his mission to Chiss space and in Canon he was already on Peridea due to the events of Star Wars Rebels before the first SSD was ever completed and deployed which was given to Vader.
That's the answer.
I imagine thrawn using a SSD more like a mobile base. From there coordinate quick strikes and return to resupply.
Agree that the political basis and intrigue of the inner workings of the empire would certainly make it difficult for Sidious to bestow a SSD on thrown without some controversy. However, think that the resource and military costs of maintaining such a weapon of war, while stranded in the unknown regions and even more importantly he doesn't need one in order to bring the new republic to its knees as he did in the legends verse. Though having one, once he had the clones and resources to crew it properly would have given him an edge for a key and crucial battle such as bilbringi that new republic could never anticipate before it was too late.
Something that huge probably would have strained supply lines to keep fully operational in the unknown regions.
6:21 why the heck Thrwan is wearing a mandalorian armor?
I feel like the only reason Thawn would want a SSD is just for the ground troop capacity. But he could get the same effect by just bringing more ISDs
#AskEck I would be interested in fleet logistics; fuel transport, cargo, that sort of thing
Me as well, id like to see a video/videos of the different types of fuel and what they're each used for, Rhydonium, Tibanna, Klouzon I think its called, etcetera.
Thrawn is good enough to not NEED a SSD, but if he had one, oh boy! Plus Palpatine knew Thrawn would never truly be 100% loyal to the empire. He would never betray the empire, but he would keep secrets if it protected the Chiss. That’s the only reason Thrawn joined the empire, to gain an ally to help the Chiss when a serious threat came
7:47 Captain Gilad Pellaeon thought to himself that the battle was not lost, that Thrawn could still have won it ... but he couldn't. That was why he ordered the retreat.
Since we know he was a highly experienced, and level-headed navy man, and knew what Thrawn was capable of perhaps best of all, I am inclined to trust his judgement.
Happy New Years Eck! Hope you, Mrs. Eck and the little Ecks enjoyed the holidays! 😊
Loved the video and very interesting the idea of SSDs being political favours. Dumb af, but so was the Empire’s bureaucracy.
With Star Wars drawing on more and more bits from Legends, I would LOVE to see some of Thrawn’s elite troopers do a heist-type mission on Corusant so we could see the Lusankya’s rise happen in live action within the current/upcoming Thrawn arc. Shit would be iconic.
Thrawn be like: My plan failed but this is what I wanted...
#AskEck Okay, if Thrawn isn't going to get an SSD (or other Dreadnought sized warship) from the Emperor for the reasons you described but lets say the Emperor talks to Thrawn one day and says "name one OTHER ship in the fleet and it is yours my loyal servant." What is the one single ship Thrawn would have asked for (presumably that he didn't have already, I guess he could always ask for yet another ISD but that's not fun).
I have an idea what it would be but I don't want to bias you; but lets just say its initials confusingly happened to be ISD.
I feel like Thrawn would want some kind of factory ship, like his own personal Altor tender to support extended operations abroad. Maybe modify it to produce good fighters for his command and subordinates. That's if we're talking a singular ship.
If I were Thrawn being given a SSD, I would name it the Chimera II
@@apathymanthemundane4165 Yea, a factory ship would be great both when he's out taming the Unknown Regions then after he gets back and finds the Empire in shambles (although he wouldn't know the ship would be useful for that at the time).
Although I don't know about it being able to produce "good" fighters, by that I take it to mean fighters that aren't standard Imperial designs. Doubtful they'd be able to cook those up on their own, even if they did they aren't going to match what Raith Sienar and his design teams cook up in terms of efficiency. At best they'd be able to turn out TIEs modified with things like shield generators or missiles at the expense of the features that make a TIE effective. They might be able to build Starwings and Skipray Blastboats at really low production rates (although it might be more efficient just to put in a requisition for them), I doubt TIE/Ds and TIE/ADs are coming off a factory ship due to the complexity unless maybe they stripped out the hyperdrives; since I doubt such small hyperdrives are easy to build and frankly a TIE/D without one would still be a damn good fighter.
A Lucrehulk or Venator, something that can carry a ton of troops and/or fighters.
Or maybe a World Devastator if that was invented and Thrawn knew about it, more due to the fact that it's essentially a mini Star Forge than anything.
I always wondered how serious Kane was about joing up with Thrawn - I really think that even if Thrawn had survived Billbringi, he’d pretty much already lost the battle and Mount Tantis was gone. No way Kane would join up THEN
Maybe if he won Billbringi but I’m not certain if he was in a place to do so
Kaine definitely saw how competent thrawn was, assuming thrawn wins billbringi Kaine sees what he’s able to do with such a small-mid sized fleet and he would definitely be curious to see how he would work with a massive fleet.
The Thrawn series of books would have been a little different if he had one but he wrecked the New Republic without it. the Chimaera was scary enough with him in command.
I feel pretty happy that I don't have to watch this video too know the answer is "he wouldn't want one"
It could lure others into fighting him more often, leading to more enemy losses.
The only Super Star Destroyer ship I’d see him owning was the Supremacy, since it’s a flying a shipyard.
Consider this: one SSD was able to take down the planetary shields of Coruscant itself in the escape from that planet of Isard. Believe me, there is a reason to put so much firepower on one ship.
Now imagine a Super Star Destroyer with full squadrons of TIE Defenders
That would have caused so much more damage and terror than a Death Star
I always figured he just preferred smaller ships. He loves frigates and cruisers. His tactics usually require maneuverability and speed not a giant slow ship.