It is easy to say this, but if you pull the main fuse/turn off the isolator, one can see a visual disconnect, and the temptation is to just ASSume, it's easy to judge, but sh*t happens. It's making our life more dangerous
I realised the potential consequences of unqualified work first hand the other day, when replacing a neighbours imploded light switch. For whatever reason I decided to remove the broken bits of face-plate _before_ isolating the circuit, with the inevitable result the rocker unexpectedly sprang out of the socket leaving a known live contact staring right at me. 😳 Yeah, ran right for the DB and threw the lighting circuit off at that before continuing the repair¹ and at least thought to test for zero voltage before carrying on. Still can't understand what in Thors name caused me to start _before_ isolating though, especially with my strong aversion to live working... 🤔 (¹ - Thankfully, a typical SPST switch replacement - And having _some_ confidence could not (In good conscience) leave the previous switch in such a dangerous condition when I had the tools and the means to do the job and at least make safe. Did the best I could, but neighbour's been advised to have the next visiting qualified electrician check it for safety and compliance all the same.)
Only an idiot works on a circuit without testing it's dead first. Trust no one. I work with sparks that say the circuit is dead on testing it's still live .
Working Live is not an issue with those alrdy in the knowing & capable of doing so; the issue is that any electrician never expect the "isolated" curcuits to be indeed Live at certain circumstances, after undergoing the Safe Isolation procedure. If we know its Live, we know how to handle & mitigate the risk of electric shock, arc flash or other hazards. Worst is when we tested the installation to be dead, then at certain juncture we come into an unexpected Live conductor etc. Its shocking & may be deadly.
We have 5 step rule in safety in Latvia: 1. Turn off power to circuit 2. Block switches or disconnectors to prevent accidental energising. Put up informative signs on disconnectrs. 3. Test circuits for energy absence. 4. Short to ground circuits you will work ok. 5. Isolate area from unauthorised personal. So, in a normal situation, electrican would have been stopped at step 3. We also have live work regulations and certifications but we try to do as little live work as possible.
I would not consider the options pictured...But I'll say this; If I lived within practical cabling distance of an electrified railway line, I'd *definitely* be considering moving my energy supplier to Network Rail... ⚡🛤👍 (Railway traction current is variable as anything - +/-50% in many cases, depending on section demands - But I would still choose that and local rectification over all of the CONsumer suppliers out there... 💸)
@@jonathanshaw6784 It depends where you are - In the UK it's generally 750v/5KA DC (SR third rail a.k.a. DCCR), or the vastly superior French 25KV/200A AC overhead system. London Underground (Spit! 🚇🇬🇧♿⛔) employs 315V+ 0V 315V- DC fourth rail electrification, and other localised systems (Mostly trams) exist here and there with local specifications. ⚡ It should be noted railway traction current is about as stable as my own mental health, so voltages given are nominal but in practice will vary by as much as 100% or more in given circumstances. Large voltage drops as trains enter section and _huge_ voltage spikes as trains leave section are part and parcel of railway electrification, so if running a house off UK DCCR your first line of rectification south of the network isolator would probably be a big-ass diode and more capacitance than you'd find in transatlantic copper cables. 🔋
We should report to the gods if they are loosing money but we are not worthy to remove a fuse to save our lives. We should have our own seals with our own member number on so that we can check and report. All seals would then be traceable and engineers safe.
Oh i have one for this lady....found one today, neutral cut and henley blocked before the meter, sneaky..... easy for customer to disconnect the neutral to the meter (i think this was accidental, but easily missed), the live...err line, was after the meter so easily missed
@TheChipmunk2008 The meter have 4 contacts 1 LINE IN, 2 NEUTRAL IN, 3 NEUTRAL OUT (2 and 3 are shorted inside the meter) 4 LINE OUT. To disconnect neutral supply of the meter you have to cut 2. But you also have disconnected neutral to your home!
You are right to point out the danger of a bypassed isolator, obviously. A helpful reminder for anyone not yet aware is to always assume live until proven otherwise, initially by a radio or light remaining on, for example. This is especially the case since PV solar systems, etc can backfeed the circuit. A mains indicator lamp would seem a sensible feature on any consmer unit or domestic installation.
So the tale tale signs of meter tampering is burning and carbonisation missed seals ? Never mind the fact that these could be a result of poorly trained installers and or bad installed meters with loose connections. The other points in the list yeah I might have think what’s been going on, but the first three points no . So the crap meter installer fecks up but the homeowner carries the can . Wonderful.
@@Elfin4 in a new build home, it is not a requirement to add an earth fly lead from the socket to the back box if the back box has at least 1 fixed lug. Which they all do. The back box is earthed via the faceplate screws
@@mx97jb Thanks for the reply. Dont understand how the screws would earth it though? or why there is an earthing terminal on the back box if not a requirement.
@@Elfin4 If you look at a socket outlet from the back, the CPC connection is part of a metal bar along the back of the socket and forms the eyelets which the socket screws tighten up against. So the socket screws actually pull the socket tight to the wall via an earth bar. This earths the socket screws and the back box all at the same time, keeping all exposed parts to the same potential.
There are two points of failure here 1. People choosing to break the law 2. Horrific pricing and economical mismanagement from our government and energy providers . There is no reason as to why energy now costs so much .record profits = record prices .
The meter bypass known up here in the northwest as the Liverpool loop it is jammed in the terminals 1 and 4 very common to find there are other methods but that is the most common as it can be quickly removed if the meter man turns up
I've always thought of digging up the concrete floor in the property and tapping in to the line and having a free socket. Obviously proper sketchy as you have no protection but I'm surprised it isn't a regular thing. I don't think it would ever be found.
One point on the bypassed meters ...... most meters are now electronic and have a RED sign when this is detected ...... Reverse Energy Detected! Working for a DNO I have probably come across these more than most. Sometimes you have to admire the workmanship put in to it. Dumb as, but 10/10 for effort! With the price of energy this is a growing problem!
@@totherarf Ok but technically no reverse energy will flow if input and output contacts are shunted. In order to reverse current you have to swap in and out terminals not only bypass. The anti-tampering system will have to work according to another principle for sure.
@@IZ8MWG I understand your point and have not recently taken one apart to see but I seem to remember it is the differential across a very low resistor not the contacts (if there are any)
@@IZ8MWG OK. It is an indication not an accurate description, so energy may not flow backwards across the meter. Sometimes there is though. Black Boxes used to be a thing where an autotransformer would raise the output side of the meter to higher potential than the incoming, thus energy would flow back! Most houses with those have burned down now so it is not a current issue ...... but when the meters (and the protocols) were being evolved it was and so we have a legacy that is not totally accurate all the time. If something works you do not fix it. Getting an easy way for a meter reader (I did say legacy) to know a meter had been tampered with was a good thing and I believe this is even included in the infra red used on some modern meters!
Two words. Safe isolation. I get the issue with tampering but if electricians carried out safe isolation each and every time then instances of shock from meter tampering would not happen. Ever. That's where the more concerning issue lies.
it is worth knowing regardless of how you feel about energy companies illegal bypasses are dangerous if you are going to do it there is a safe way but i will not say
Lots of people are tapping into the cable in their garden and running a piece of cable (crucially old cable, not dated after they've bought the house) in a quiet corner of the house. ''how am I supposed to know where that socket is fed from? I'm not an electrician. I've lived here 10 years and never had an issue with the electrics''.
@@Orgakoyd that is not very easy to do most of this old supply cable is paper insulated lead you need specialist skills and knowledge to strip it and often it’s concentric in such a way that it may have to be isolated to be cut to make a joint on some types the safest way would simply be connecting the consumer unit directly into the suppliers cut out but obviously I’m not advocating for it
I've found that the safest way to get free electricity is to take a whole bag of 10Ah power banks and £4,- down to your local Starbucks. Buy a Venti filter coffee, and plug all of those power banks into every USB port and wall-wart available. Drink the coffee as slowly as you can, and load up some good content on your phone in the meantime. 🎞 Voila! „Free“ electricity for the price of two filter coffees...Which in total cost _less_ than doing the same thing on your own domestic supply! 😉
@@dieseldragon6756 it is still less than your coffees cost. Also they do have restrictions and reserve the right to tell you not to use the plugs even if it simply your appliance has not been tested would be enough of our reason or something like that.
@@UKsystems Aye, that's fair (And so is a one plug/port per customer rule, too) 👍 Mind you; What's the position if the customers device bears an in-date PAT cert? 🙃
Why do you think you’re being smart at editing by moving a printed image like that, especially when it’s concerning a safety issue? It’s frankly annoying and stupid. What would you think if someone grabbed your head whilst you’re reading and thrust your nose against the page and wiped it up and down? Same thing with a screen, so is it some sort of dominance kink for RUclips or has nobody complained before?
If people have to resort to bypass their leccy meters as they cannot afford energy costs anymore, I think we cannot call ourselves a first world country. Nobody would risk their life in doing so if they can afford it. 40% electricity price rise for "sustainable energy" is not worth it....
@@SeanMoore2008 actually is, we are all subsidising wind turbines that brake on a daily bases, and also, have to have gas burning generators in case there is no wind. Search for you tube video "when the wind stops". At that point electricity companies and grid in UK had to impost power from Europe at £7000+ per MW instead usual £50 per MW.....who subsidised that, certainly not National Grid or power companies Also, check the cost of electricity production for wind turbine vs nuclear vs fossil fuel per MW
Here in the United States, as a residential electrician, I work on most 120v circuits live. 240v, or anything 3 phase I shut off. Most electricians I know are the same way
@@UKsystems In the US there is a "legal" loophole....if you are self-employed, i e. a "one man shop" there are no regulatory agency penalties for that individual. However, many commercial/industrial customers would be cited/fined if they allow live work by ANYONE, regardless of who it was. When I was running my own business, I never worked live to protect my clients and myself. Working on my own properties however, there were a few times I did work live.
@@mxslick50 it’s still is not good to do it because it kind of encourages complacency because you’re working live all the time. It’s another day it’s not. I am working live I need to be very careful.
The only safe isolation is to pull the main sealed fuses , when some one took micc cores thro a back entry on the IS. CO. BLOCKS .DIGGER DRIVER SAID THERE ARE SPARKS COMING OFF MY BUCKET ,went for a look jump in the hole and BANG THE MI CABLE , WENT OFF LIKE A ROMAN CANDLE ,covering my glass in molten copper , on a garage fore court , near STOKE , BACK IN THE 1970'S
The sparkies getting shocked as a result of tampering can't be doing proper dead testing.
I think the phrase is “Safe Isolation”. Cannot believe the complacency in our industry regarding this.
@@MS-Patriot2 yes, i learned this the hard way.
dead testing != testing for dead... it's why they changed it to safe isolation, easy to confuse the 2
It is easy to say this, but if you pull the main fuse/turn off the isolator, one can see a visual disconnect, and the temptation is to just ASSume, it's easy to judge, but sh*t happens. It's making our life more dangerous
I realised the potential consequences of unqualified work first hand the other day, when replacing a neighbours imploded light switch. For whatever reason I decided to remove the broken bits of face-plate _before_ isolating the circuit, with the inevitable result the rocker unexpectedly sprang out of the socket leaving a known live contact staring right at me. 😳
Yeah, ran right for the DB and threw the lighting circuit off at that before continuing the repair¹ and at least thought to test for zero voltage before carrying on. Still can't understand what in Thors name caused me to start _before_ isolating though, especially with my strong aversion to live working... 🤔
(¹ - Thankfully, a typical SPST switch replacement - And having _some_ confidence could not (In good conscience) leave the previous switch in such a dangerous condition when I had the tools and the means to do the job and at least make safe. Did the best I could, but neighbour's been advised to have the next visiting qualified electrician check it for safety and compliance all the same.)
That's why you test, test and test again 🤔
I have to say, that was my first thought too.
Only an idiot works on a circuit without testing it's dead first. Trust no one. I work with sparks that say the circuit is dead on testing it's still live .
Working Live is not an issue with those alrdy in the knowing & capable of doing so; the issue is that any electrician never expect the "isolated" curcuits to be indeed Live at certain circumstances, after undergoing the Safe Isolation procedure.
If we know its Live, we know how to handle & mitigate the risk of electric shock, arc flash or other hazards.
Worst is when we tested the installation to be dead, then at certain juncture we come into an unexpected Live conductor etc.
Its shocking & may be deadly.
Phenomenon Worcestershire
We have 5 step rule in safety in Latvia:
1. Turn off power to circuit
2. Block switches or disconnectors to prevent accidental energising. Put up informative signs on disconnectrs.
3. Test circuits for energy absence.
4. Short to ground circuits you will work ok.
5. Isolate area from unauthorised personal.
So, in a normal situation, electrican would have been stopped at step 3.
We also have live work regulations and certifications but we try to do as little live work as possible.
Short to ground is a good idea.
thanks for the pictures, I now know how to by pass my meter using a screw and shunt! genius boys.... PS love your site and the content
I would not consider the options pictured...But I'll say this; If I lived within practical cabling distance of an electrified railway line, I'd *definitely* be considering moving my energy supplier to Network Rail... ⚡🛤👍
(Railway traction current is variable as anything - +/-50% in many cases, depending on section demands - But I would still choose that and local rectification over all of the CONsumer suppliers out there... 💸)
@@dieseldragon6756what voltage do they use?
@@jonathanshaw6784 It depends where you are - In the UK it's generally 750v/5KA DC (SR third rail a.k.a. DCCR), or the vastly superior French 25KV/200A AC overhead system. London Underground (Spit! 🚇🇬🇧♿⛔) employs 315V+ 0V 315V- DC fourth rail electrification, and other localised systems (Mostly trams) exist here and there with local specifications. ⚡
It should be noted railway traction current is about as stable as my own mental health, so voltages given are nominal but in practice will vary by as much as 100% or more in given circumstances. Large voltage drops as trains enter section and _huge_ voltage spikes as trains leave section are part and parcel of railway electrification, so if running a house off UK DCCR your first line of rectification south of the network isolator would probably be a big-ass diode and more capacitance than you'd find in transatlantic copper cables. 🔋
We should report to the gods if they are loosing money but we are not worthy to remove a fuse to save our lives. We should have our own seals with our own member number on so that we can check and report. All seals would then be traceable and engineers safe.
Oh i have one for this lady....found one today, neutral cut and henley blocked before the meter, sneaky..... easy for customer to disconnect the neutral to the meter (i think this was accidental, but easily missed), the live...err line, was after the meter so easily missed
will take a picture tomorrow morning before we rejig it and notify the dno to seal their blocks
@@TheChipmunk2008 if you cut neutral how you think to supply the power? You need line and neutral to close the circuit!
@@IZ8MWG the neutral is in a connector block before the meter so it wouldn't interrupt the circuit... That's what's dodgy
@TheChipmunk2008 The meter have 4 contacts 1 LINE IN, 2 NEUTRAL IN, 3 NEUTRAL OUT (2 and 3 are shorted inside the meter) 4 LINE OUT. To disconnect neutral supply of the meter you have to cut 2. But you also have disconnected neutral to your home!
@@IZ8MWG no as I've said there's a Henley block on the N Before the meter where there shouldn't be one
You are right to point out the danger of a bypassed isolator, obviously. A helpful reminder for anyone not yet aware is to always assume live until proven otherwise, initially by a radio or light remaining on, for example. This is especially the case since PV solar systems, etc can backfeed the circuit. A mains indicator lamp would seem a sensible feature on any consmer unit or domestic installation.
So the tale tale signs of meter tampering is burning and carbonisation missed seals ? Never mind the fact that these could be a result of poorly trained installers and or bad installed meters with loose connections. The other points in the list yeah I might have think what’s been going on, but the first three points no . So the crap meter installer fecks up but the homeowner carries the can . Wonderful.
Sounds like fluke are trying to catch up with the Megger X1
That fluke kit is going to be a game changer I have wanted a test kit do it all for years - I hope its not a disappointment
Worcestershire (sauce!) and phenomenon
You can’t be tricked into working with live electrics they’ve clearly not done any dead tests when carrying out there work
As a non-electrician, could I ask if it is a requirement of current electrical regulations for new build homes to earth metal back boxes on sockets.
@@Elfin4 in a new build home, it is not a requirement to add an earth fly lead from the socket to the back box if the back box has at least 1 fixed lug. Which they all do. The back box is earthed via the faceplate screws
Never has been
@@mx97jb Thanks for the reply. Dont understand how the screws would earth it though? or why there is an earthing terminal on the back box if not a requirement.
Yes
@@Elfin4 If you look at a socket outlet from the back, the CPC connection is part of a metal bar along the back of the socket and forms the eyelets which the socket screws tighten up against. So the socket screws actually pull the socket tight to the wall via an earth bar. This earths the socket screws and the back box all at the same time, keeping all exposed parts to the same potential.
Worcestershire Sauce has to be this week's word
Joe your other channel helped me enormously to get my 2365 L2
This weeks words are Worcestershire and phenomenon
Worcestershire phenomenon
Probably their sauces. They're *impossibly* popular... 🍶💯😁
There are two points of failure here
1. People choosing to break the law
2. Horrific pricing and economical mismanagement from our government and energy providers .
There is no reason as to why energy now costs so much .record profits = record prices .
The meter bypass known up here in the northwest as the Liverpool loop it is jammed in the terminals 1 and 4 very common to find there are other methods but that is the most common as it can be quickly removed if the meter man turns up
I'd forgotten it was / is called that!!
Never seen one personally.....
Regards from Liverpool 👍
I think the codename for those down here is an M25... 🛣
(That is, after all, the _London_ Loop! 😋)
I've always thought of digging up the concrete floor in the property and tapping in to the line and having a free socket. Obviously proper sketchy as you have no protection but I'm surprised it isn't a regular thing. I don't think it would ever be found.
Great news as always, the words are Worcester Sauce & Phenomen
Lot of electricians work on live circuits just assume everything is live until a volt meter tells otherwise.
One point on the bypassed meters ...... most meters are now electronic and have a RED sign when this is detected ...... Reverse Energy Detected!
Working for a DNO I have probably come across these more than most. Sometimes you have to admire the workmanship put in to it. Dumb as, but 10/10 for effort!
With the price of energy this is a growing problem!
@@totherarf Why tampering would result in a reverse energy flow?
@@IZ8MWG ...... because the meters are made to detect that and display it?
@@totherarf Ok but technically no reverse energy will flow if input and output contacts are shunted. In order to reverse current you have to swap in and out terminals not only bypass. The anti-tampering system will have to work according to another principle for sure.
@@IZ8MWG I understand your point and have not recently taken one apart to see but I seem to remember it is the differential across a very low resistor not the contacts (if there are any)
@@IZ8MWG OK.
It is an indication not an accurate description, so energy may not flow backwards across the meter. Sometimes there is though. Black Boxes used to be a thing where an autotransformer would raise the output side of the meter to higher potential than the incoming, thus energy would flow back! Most houses with those have burned down now so it is not a current issue ...... but when the meters (and the protocols) were being evolved it was and so we have a legacy that is not totally accurate all the time.
If something works you do not fix it. Getting an easy way for a meter reader (I did say legacy) to know a meter had been tampered with was a good thing and I believe this is even included in the infra red used on some modern meters!
At least as sparkies we can jump our meters safely😂😂😂😂
I believe it was a WAGO that wasn't done up properly on that ship - but Efixx won't mention that because they probably sponsored by them!
Two words. Safe isolation. I get the issue with tampering but if electricians carried out safe isolation each and every time then instances of shock from meter tampering would not happen. Ever. That's where the more concerning issue lies.
🥳🥳🥳
Is it an electricians' job to learn rescue at height techniques? After all, we do pay for a highly capable fire and rescue service.
Joe, change the spiel..... or 'watching at home, as you do, you sad git'
😂No judgement here, just happy people are watching.
Oh mesh autodimmers...
Just wait couple of years once they find out how to hack them and create havoc.
Great idea.
One loose wire bricking a whole ship.
Now that sounds fun.
with prepaid surely if you bypass the inside unit the outside unit will detect tampering?
it is worth knowing regardless of how you feel about energy companies illegal bypasses are dangerous if you are going to do it there is a safe way but i will not say
Lots of people are tapping into the cable in their garden and running a piece of cable (crucially old cable, not dated after they've bought the house) in a quiet corner of the house. ''how am I supposed to know where that socket is fed from? I'm not an electrician. I've lived here 10 years and never had an issue with the electrics''.
@@Orgakoyd that is not very easy to do most of this old supply cable is paper insulated lead you need specialist skills and knowledge to strip it and often it’s concentric in such a way that it may have to be isolated to be cut to make a joint on some types the safest way would simply be connecting the consumer unit directly into the suppliers cut out but obviously I’m not advocating for it
I've found that the safest way to get free electricity is to take a whole bag of 10Ah power banks and £4,- down to your local Starbucks. Buy a Venti filter coffee, and plug all of those power banks into every USB port and wall-wart available. Drink the coffee as slowly as you can, and load up some good content on your phone in the meantime. 🎞
Voila! „Free“ electricity for the price of two filter coffees...Which in total cost _less_ than doing the same thing on your own domestic supply! 😉
@@dieseldragon6756 it is still less than your coffees cost. Also they do have restrictions and reserve the right to tell you not to use the plugs even if it simply your appliance has not been tested would be enough of our reason or something like that.
@@UKsystems Aye, that's fair (And so is a one plug/port per customer rule, too) 👍
Mind you; What's the position if the customers device bears an in-date PAT cert? 🙃
Nobody know how to use a contactor 😂😂😂 if your gunna do it do it right !
Worcestershire
Clear, present is my guess for your 2 words😊
Worcestershire Sauce and Phenomenon
Worcestershire phenomenon the 2 words
Worcester and Phenomenon (doo-doo, doo-doo-do-do)? 🙃
the link to the podcast page is broken, shouldn't have the word weekly in the address
Worcestershire sauce
costa del & worcestershire sauce
Worcestershire and phenomenon
Why do you think you’re being smart at editing by moving a printed image like that, especially when it’s concerning a safety issue? It’s frankly annoying and stupid.
What would you think if someone grabbed your head whilst you’re reading and thrust your nose against the page and wiped it up and down?
Same thing with a screen, so is it some sort of dominance kink for RUclips or has nobody complained before?
costa and Worcestershire
Worcester & phenomenon.
worcestershire, natty
Worcestershire sauce
phenomenon, natty
Got to be Worcestershire sauce and phenomenon for this week
Phenomenon and Worcestershire Sauce
Phnomomon and Worcestershire sauce
Are the words Worcestershire and Campari?
Phenomenon and Worcestershire sauce
Worcestershire sauce and Phenomenon
Worcestershire sauce and phenomenon
Worcestershire sauce and phenomenon
Worcestershire and phenomenon 😁
Could not find the links for training courses
Worcestershire and Phenomenon
Worcestershire and mitts
Worcestershire & phenomenon
worcestershire, phenomenon
If people have to resort to bypass their leccy meters as they cannot afford energy costs anymore, I think we cannot call ourselves a first world country. Nobody would risk their life in doing so if they can afford it. 40% electricity price rise for "sustainable energy" is not worth it....
@@donnied8127 but sustainable energy isn't the reason why electricity is so expensive
@@SeanMoore2008 actually is, we are all subsidising wind turbines that brake on a daily bases, and also, have to have gas burning generators in case there is no wind. Search for you tube video "when the wind stops". At that point electricity companies and grid in UK had to impost power from Europe at £7000+ per MW instead usual £50 per MW.....who subsidised that, certainly not National Grid or power companies
Also, check the cost of electricity production for wind turbine vs nuclear vs fossil fuel per MW
Missing security seals on the meters, aren’t they all missing them? 😉😂
Oh golly...Mine must be the only still-sealed meter in Britain! 😳
The seals on my meter are very old as is the analog meter.
Worcestershire sauce and phenomenom
Here in the United States, as a residential electrician, I work on most 120v circuits live. 240v, or anything 3 phase I shut off. Most electricians I know are the same way
that is not allowed though
Why would you work on any circuit live? It makes your job more difficult and is dangerous to boot.
@@UKsystems In the US there is a "legal" loophole....if you are self-employed, i e. a "one man shop" there are no regulatory agency penalties for that individual.
However, many commercial/industrial customers would be cited/fined if they allow live work by ANYONE, regardless of who it was.
When I was running my own business, I never worked live to protect my clients and myself. Working on my own properties however, there were a few times I did work live.
@@mxslick50 it’s still is not good to do it because it kind of encourages complacency because you’re working live all the time. It’s another day it’s not. I am working live I need to be very careful.
@@cobalt49 in the United States is almost like a bragging right when they do it for some reason
9:20 'Simplistic' doesn't mean what you appear to think it does.
The only safe isolation is to pull the main sealed fuses , when some one took micc cores thro a back entry on the IS. CO. BLOCKS .DIGGER DRIVER SAID THERE ARE SPARKS COMING OFF MY BUCKET ,went for a look jump in the hole and BANG THE MI CABLE , WENT OFF LIKE A ROMAN CANDLE ,covering my glass in molten copper , on a garage fore court , near STOKE , BACK IN THE 1970'S
Worcestershire and LLCoolJ. One of these days I’ll get it right! 😂
Thank god thats England is an Island 🙏