Why is SpaceX Starship Only Capable of 40 to 50 Tons to Orbit For the Flight 3 Version?
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- Опубликовано: 19 апр 2024
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Welcome back my friends to an intriguing week. We have so many great things to finally dive deeper into around Starbase and Starship updates as they prepare for flight 4. Many have been asking about the 40-50 tonnes to orbit for the current Starship design which came as a surprise to all of us (including me) from Elon's presentation last week. What are the SpaceX Starship Expectations vs. Reality? Is There a Problem? Raptor is the key, and it is complicated. Do we also have a dry mass problem? Are they running engines at lower thrust for safety? Lots to speculate about today. We have Falcon 9 action as always. Also, Boeing Starliner is ready to fly, and we are finally getting ready for action, with Gilmour Space and their Eris rocket preparing to take its first flight from Queensland Australia!
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Minor nit: the Raptor 3 is not the most powerful rocket engine in history.
@MarcusHouse Australia is going to launch a rocket soon. Do you think that Elon would consider a base in the Southern Hemisphere for Southern missions? Would be great to see. Love your work from Australia Mate.
And who promises me that DeleteMe is not selling my data themselves?
All these data deletion services are sketchy as hell, and I wouldn't trust a single one.
There is an LNG port close to Starbase. Do you know if they have considered getting a pipeline ran there directly to eliminate the need for transport by truck?
@@caldodge I said "for its size" and was referring to any raptor.
Your reporting is the easiest to understand, most comprehensive, and respectful. Thanks, Team Marcus.
Totally agree on that.
'Bout time the Aussies joined the space club! Welcome, friends!!!
19°, nice
Aussie was one of the first.
Australia's first satellite was launched in 1967
@MarcusHouse - I hope this comment doesn’t get buried - I wanted to say how appreciative I am of your videos, I love how they are WAY more researched than the other space RUclipsrs and that you included links and artwork from so many genius small sub creators!!!
Love seeing that Aussie flag on a rocket for space. So good thank you MH
Saving Chandra seems to the smart pick. Crazy that they've defunded the whole X-ray band that can't be done from Earth.
It’s almost as if this administration doesn’t want to push for space funding weird they have unlimited funds for war though
Scrapping Chandra is a classic move - it's NASA pushing back and saying if you cut, our only option is to cut things you want.
@@darrenmx Yep...who will blink first? (probably NASA).
Let's hope the Boeing Starliner won't have some side panel pop off mid-flight like with other Boeing products...
Or space MCAS
Too low, terrain, Too low, terrain!
Still wouldn't want to fly on it. Too many fixes since the last flight that have not themselves been flight tested.
Old joke.
@@RocketPal Well you go fly on it
Huge respect for people who coordinate all of the works at starbase
They should have a show. There must be some characters on the site.
I like how those all clamps work . Amazing
Love your videos Marcus, I look forward to seeing them every week!
Thank you David!
@@MarcusHouse thank you
19:52 Thanks for covering the Starliner rollout. A lot of passionate engineers and technicians putting in long hours to help fly return Suni and Butcher safely. Can't wait to see her fly. 🚀❤️
starliner looks like a trashcan on a telephone pole compared tp the elegant looking crew dragon capsule on a falcon 9.
@@michaelotoole1807 since when is appearance the primary motivation for rocket technology?
Hopefully engineers will have gained valuable insight that SpaceX or Blue Origin will want to take advantage of by hiring them. Boeing’s cost, performance, schedule and risk make any additional effort to succeed nothing more than a dubious face saving contract obligation
@@SamuelMM_Mitosis i didn't say it was. just making a point.
Hopefully, the Starliner's flight isn't following the rest of Boeings' quality control...
Let’s go Gilmore!
Good luck on your launch.
C’mon Aussie! Go you good thing!
Yippee, thanks Marcus. What a great week in space flight developments.
Good Morning.
Marcus 7AM Here in Chicago every Saturday. I listen to you. Love your reports.
Thank you for another great update, Marcus! The Space-Nerd's highlight of the week. Keep them coming.
Another fantastic episode. Thanks Marcus & team!
Great production! So much hard work! Well done! Thank you!
Great update Marcus, cheers bro.
Such a pleasure to have a MH post during my Saturday evening. Thanks for posting, loved it :)
love your content marcus as a fellow aussie its great to be able to keep upto date with my isp and the going ons with the amazing monster thats gonna change the world
Nicely done as always. Wish I had a tenth of your enthusiasm. Good on ya cobber.
Well done team @MarcusHouse
Always here at 7 (or later,ha) every Saturday. Thanks as always for your great info!!
Greetings from the dystopian Hoosiergeti Plain ...
Saturday mornin' Space stuff eye candy !!!!
Woot !!!
LOl. Hoosiergeti. Very good.
It's time to grab the coffee!🚀
Thanks Marcus !
Can’t wait to see the mid week deep dive thanks for the new video Marcus
Great video, shedding light on the raptor engine stat questions. Vast taking on launcher (yes I missed that) and a new player in Australia, all first time content for me.
Is it weird I can spot when you say something different? LOL "I'll see you in the next video" replaced with "I'll catch you for the next one".
As always, awesome content. I tried watching some other channels like this, but they just didn't have the same delivery. Great job!!
Go Queensland! That rocket should be painted Maroon! 😁
Nah, should be yellow. Then they could pay some people to put a bend in it.
Have you ever done a deep dive into how Space X’s administration process works for modification of their launch and space systems? It seems that this is overlooked even though their modification management process is as revolutionary as their rockets.
Markus always a pleasure and very informant.
Excellent stuff bro
thanks marcus
Good video. .
Unbelievable how S X is expanding. .
The Raptor 2 looks a beast..
Thank you MH + Team for all your hard work
Thanks for watching as always Rob!
Good to hear the Gilmour Space news. I wish them all the best for the future...
Just remember, Spacex extended falcon 9 and that has worked out wonderfully well. I bet it will be no different for Starship. Version one is the test vehicle and not the end product. The 100 ton mark will probably be achieved with version 2. SpaceX isn’t breaking the laws of physics, they are using them to their advantage
im sure versions 1 is a lot more capable than stated. the payload stated during the event showed the capability for "flight 3" and not for "version 1". its pretty likely that there was less fuel in the tanks and the engines were running at lower throttle during that flight.
I break the laws of physics all the time. But just me, I'm the only one that gets to. And no you can't see the pics. Just buy my book.
Nobody is breaking the laws of physics. It's the very laws of physics which allow us to do things that look like they break the laws of physics. Not sure why it irks me so much when people say this obvious thing. I guess it's like assuming you're speaking to a group of idiots, at a space flight event. When Musk makes SS float off the pad without engines or propellant then we can talk about the laws of physics. Until then they're doing what people have done since the beginning of space flight. Just with less congressmen threatening to give your money to Boeing to make jet engines for planes we don't fly anymore..... None of these ideas are new, everythings been tried in one way or another. They just have real funding now and less cooks in the kitchen.
I would expect alot more issues from extending Starship unlike Falcon 9.
Extending Starship changes Center of Gravity/Center of Mass radically. This will change ALL flight characteristics in how effective the engine gimbal are effect, how effective the grid gins and how big they need to be and how fast to pivot that much mass. It will change how POWERFUL thrusters need to move that mass. It will change how big the fins need to be to balance that mass through reentry.
Even the belly flop maneuver will be completely different from what was tested
@@saquist all these are problems SpaceX surely faced when extending Falcon... the only difference is the scale. The only unique problem might be the reentry flaps on Starship, but this seems like a relatively minor issue, assuming SpaceX can correctly tune their control systems with V1, which I'm sure they're already well on their way to completing.
@@akkkbn Center of Gravity and Mass calculations aren't minor. Take the shuttle as an example. Programs had to be written to adjust for constantly changing of the location CoM/CoG as the fuel is drained because of SSME use of asymmetric thrust.
It's not a linear comparable either because starship are SOOO much more massive than Falcon. Raptors don't have as much less gimbal room in a cluster of 33 engines.
Then taken all the fuel during landing and and slosh is around ! Remember Falcon never exploded on return to landing site. Different engines behave just differently under pressure.
Cheers Marcus and team. Love ya work ANZAC brother 🇳🇿🇭🇲
Does all that soot add any significant amount of weight to the rocket and how would you even clean it up if you wanted to ? Thanks
Great show!
@ 13:41 am I looking at the magnificent mach diamonds receding as the power is turned off?? Stunning visual, respect from Manchester (UK)
@ 14:37 as if by magic :)
Marcus House and Ozzy Man Reviews are my 2 favorite streamers from down under. 👍👍
Love OzzyMan
How about a colab? @@MarcusHouse
About TIME Australia got a spaceport. Good on you! 😁👍
Good stuff as usual. Thanks for the upload.
When I hear "crewed flight", I initially think "crude flight" 😳
I have the same problem!
0:55 It's a giant broken fidget spinner!! 😀
Thanks
Nice work my guys and gals
Always looking forward to your updates, quality over quantity. Thank you!
Yeah, let's get on the Boeing spaceship
If it's Boeing, I'm not going.
You can always go on Starship
Starliner! With all the issues it's had, you must have very big cajones to get on it... those are some brave astronauts.
Very Cool Marcus !
Hopefully nasa assigned an extra person to check the bolts on the doors for starliner lmao
QUESTION - Why is SpaceX not using a hopper like test rocket, to work out the catch process?? Seems like it would be simple enough for them to build a set of test-only rockets to work out the catch process???
@@truegrit1860 It obviously can, because after starship breaks off to orbit... the booster has to fly back to the pad.
@@truegrit1860The water towers flew on their own after Hoppy, right? Surely they could put a nose cone on, fly it up 10k and bring it back down as they did with Starship.
You don't know that. Maybe They could choose to light only 13 engines if needed@@truegrit1860
As reusability goes up total payload to orbit goes down. Same problem the Space Shuttle had. It was huge yet only capable of placing about 30,000 pounds in low earth orbit.
Bravo Marcus very good job
I read an article about satellite debris/dust in the upper atmosphere. It's mainly aluminium dust for the breakup of satellites. With SpaceX and several others looking to launch 1000's of comms satellites over the next few years we could see 'ozone holes' appear in the upper atmosphere.
Just for context, meteorites and other non-Earth debris contribute many tons per day to the dust in the atmosphere, but very little is an element like aluminium.
Very little reseach has been conducted on the long term effect of metal dust in the upper atmosphere.
Fun fact, some scientists believe this can help.
Surely offset by fully-resusable launch vehicles?
@@billstevens3796 Yes, it could affect the albedo of Earth, but it's an unknown factor...I'm sure some climate denialists will come along soon and say "I told ya so!'
@michaelmicek how does that change the number of satellites?
@@michaelmicekBut more satellites as a result?
Who else loves this 150 foot monstrosity? ❤
More outstanding work! I’m very thankful for a credible source, comprehensive, low bias information combined with an effective, efficient communication style. Keep it up!
Great job
Australia should develop its own reusable rocket system.
Should it?
Maybe just license Starship for now and wait for the patents to expire.
Poking holes in the Ozone Layer's a problem, also, dirtying up low earth orbit is too.....
Imagine 3 starships launched per day as Elon wants.
Excelent video and tecnical explanation about the "raptors" motors and the others alternatives ! Congratulations.
Thanks for covering the Starship payload decrease. I thought this would have received more coverage in the space/rocket media. Also good to see the Aussie rocket coming online. Still a way to go to catch us Kiwis ;-)
Everyone scoffed at SpaceX when they started. Oh, they'll never: get off the ground, get to orbit, propulsively land, reuse 10 times, make a full flow staged combustion engine running on methane and oxygen, get to orbit etc etc etc. The cost of mass to orbit keeps dropping, and i think they will continue to do amazing things.
Except the cost of mass to orbit hasn't dropped pretty much at all...
@@GraveFable25that's completely false. Everyone involved in space admits that. Don't let some preposterous internet clowns fool you.
@@admarsandbeyond Its not false. Not in terms of the actual total cost. Spacex are able to offer lower prices, but thats only because of government subsidizing them.
@@GraveFable25 NASA is not subsidizing SpaceX in any substantial way as far as I'm aware. Buying services from a commercial entity is not subsidies. Paying 600 million for a DIVH launch when you can buy the same service for ⅒ of that is subsidizing.
@@GraveFable25thats utter nonsense... spaceshuttle cost 13k$/kg into LEO and falcon 9 is sitting at less than 4k$/kg
Just hope SpaceX build up the ground level high enough they can put a flame trench under OLM2. The showerhead works but a flame trench eliminates so many problems they have with OLM1
The flame trench/diverter seems to be the way to go. I also feel that they should have one launch system and a separate recovery system. Keep it simple works the best. JMO
just a reminder: Starship on the OLM sits a few meters higher above the ground than the Saturn V on LC39. and at both sites you cannt really dig into the ground.
@@rayRay-pw6gzintegrated recovery / launch system is a fundamental goal of Starship, not an add-on.
They're specifically trying to eliminate the expense of building a flame trench and replace it with something that can manufactured, mass produced as it were.
@@michaelmicek I understand their stated goal. Sometimes you have to learn to walk before you try to run a marathon. We all will see what the future holds for SpaceX . I just was stating my opinion. The levels of thrust at launch is going to increase, as we have already seen. That being the case , repairing the launch system after every launch will force change. JMO✌️🫶🇺🇸
Cheers Marcus 🍻
Please do something on Space X teaming with Vast to make the Haven 1 potentially leading to the first RSS in human history.
So stoked if this is true!
Meanwhile SLS:
For all you doubters out there: it took 7 launches before Falcon made a successful launch, flight and landing. Now they do it twice a week.
This isn't Falcon and NASA was heavily involved
@@budyeddi5814I don’t know the extent of NASA being involved, but SpaceX just finished their 3rd launch of the heavy and between its first and third launches, they have made enormous progress over a thing substantially more complicated than Falcon. At this rate, Starship is on pace to beat Falcon. Now that is an awesome track record considering the increased engineering challenges and complexity.
@@Curteman20 ah yes, third launch and has yet to reach orbit. Absolutely groundbreaking
@@budyeddi5814ah yes, completely ignoring the original comment.
@@budyeddi5814 hate and bait all you want, just small bait didnt make spacex stopping chase their dreams😂
Cool! Sort of trainspotting advanced
Marcus, great news show. Solid info on rocket engine types. Excited to hear more about Starship F4 - it should be v soon, thanks, Eamon
Thank you!
Mars sample return was a very poorly thought out process. (NASA’s lack of foresight all too common these days)
The samples should have been stored with Perseverance so collection was at a single point. Having to follow the same path to collect them like breadcrumbs is insane.
Yes, same with the moon program, thes should have known that Mr. Musk will not have his homwork ready in time, no matter how many taxpayer money they throw in his direction.
they could use a helicopter to collect them?! Probably done within a week..
@@joansparky4439 The plan is (was) to use a second rover to follow the first. A total waste of effort for the distances they’d have to cover. Single point collection is the only cost effective method. Imagine your spouse buying groceries and paying for them but leaving them in the isle. You then go to the store and follow along her path later and have to find them, collect them and take them to your car… which is parked right next to theirs. Logical?
@@nooneyouknow9399 pretty sure the dropped sample tubes are backups that could be recovered in case the rover failed and made the primary samples still carried by the rover inaccessible. i think Mars Guy has mentoined that whenever this topic came up.
It is encouraging to observe Australia's proactive engagement in this initiative. I wish them success with the launch. Indeed, the participation of more nations heralds a more promising future for all.
I just got back from a vacation near KSC. It was an awesome trip. Got to see flight 20 of booster 1062 on my first evening there, then did the KSC tour on Sunday. It was a blast. It was a clear night, so I even got to see the first half of the landing burn. It was amazingly bright, even so far out at sea.
My bet is that the first catch attempt will be on flight test nine. The next few launches are going to have a lot of unforeseen variables arise to cause problems.
Yeah I wouldn't trust that boeing starliner.
Wouldn't jump on that one even if the ride was free 💀
@@AvyScottandFlower Watch out for falling hatches
Nice video resolution!
Catching is going to be the big show with starship. I doubt they'll be doing it as soon as you think tho
What are the milestones in the contract? They are the only expectations that count and SpaceX is woefully behind. Now musk is saying all problems fixed with v2 or v3? The grifter keeps iterating the grift.
If you think SpaceX is 'woefully behind schedule', then how would you describe the schedule situation of SLS+Orion, or Starliner for that matter?
Marcus should address the issues SpaceX has caused the Artemis programme also to make it a balance channel
issues like not seeking out and talking to private industry early on to get to the moon asap can't be put down on private industry pal. That's on NASA and the US gov and their schemes to funnel money and votes into districts of their choice to get re-elected.
Check when the Artemis II and III SLS launches will be possible. They are also causing delays. (SLS is Boeing after all). Ask why it is so far behind when at its core it is repackaged shuttle parts.
@@Scanner9631 that too he should do a episode on all of it
6:33 Cybertruck cameo 😂
Guys spacex has created this beast. It a steep learning curve. They still learning how to tame this beast. No one has ever done it before. We should give them the benefit of the doubt and also it’s super fascinating
HAVEN'T WATCHED IT YET, BUT AWESOME VIDEO LOL?! I JUST CAUGHT IT 25 SECONDS AGO
Nobody's watched this video all the way through yet, barring relativistic effects 😅
@@nathanielcleland6566 You know there's fast forwarding, right?
🤡🤡🤡
So great seeing Gilmour Space Technologies' progress! Aussie has been a long time since Woomera! (Yes, there were research launches of scramjet, etc.)
Thanks LHM ;)
Think you should start dedicating part of your overall segments to the upcoming Polaris Dawn missions. First private crew to ever do a space walk, highest orbit since Apollo. Space X will unveiling new EVA suit for that mission next month, which may be used on Moon/Mars. This crew will also potentially be the one first testing Starship, when it is crew ready. Think the public needs to know more about how important the Polaris Dawn missions will be and what they are all about.
I think they knew the V1s would only ever be a test article, so payload was always irrelevant.
More that the payload claims were aspirational rather than irrelevant. Apparently the US DoD will be releasing a funding round for extra-light weight military vehicles and Elon has secured access to large titanium reserves 😅
Then why not disclose that information to your customer who has paid you in advance?
@@mervstash3692what customer? And why would a deal between spacex and military/govt/corp be made public to us?
I hope the Starliner door stays in place.
The 4k render is awesome
IMO Mars sample/return was an uneconomic idea from the start. Fly a rover to Mars and collect samples whilst travelling over the surface. Fine, that works. But dumping those samples along the way to force the requirement for a second rover mission to follow the same route and (presumably) to return to the landing point somehow for sample transfer/encapsulation, launch and return? If the samples had remained on the rover, the return mission would not require that hugely expensive collection rover - land near the rover instead, transfer/encapsulate samples and launch/return missing out the middle man.
i wonder where the info that the dropped samples are the ones to be recovered is from, because as far as i know the primary sample collection is still in the rover, and the dropped sample stashes are just in case the rover fails and doesnt allow the retrieval of the primary samples. today is the first time i read that the dropped samples are intended to be the target for recovery..
Starship astronauts can pick them up on their first flight back...
I’d love to know what plans SpaceX has for an escape system for starship in case of a failing booster.
It seems to me it’s going to be such a long time before this is human rated that Mars is still a long, long way away.
Why? Musk already said there will be losses...
Hot staging allows the 2nd stage to separate and potentially be caught on a 2nd tower (another reason for a catch alone tower).
@@Scanner9631 theres no proof of concept until now, like the safe return in the first place, refueling in Orbit, reaching the moon safe, landing on the moon, return from the moon surface, relighting the engine in space multiple time, reusability of the system all to be working in 2026....
Thanks Marcus for all the new details. What I'm wondering is:
Where does all the dirt come from which is brought in by all those dump trucks onto the new orbital launch site?
A fantastic time to be alive!
The proposed Mars sample return mission is an absurd waste of money. Lots of exploration and research can be funded by NASA for that much money.
It is if they are talking 11 freaking billion. Geezzz...
@@MarcusHouse i think nasa should drop the project and focus on making 3d printers, drones, and other technologies that would help a mars colony. those samples aren't going anywhere, and they are nicely sealed up before any potential contaminates that could throw off our research. meaning it would be better to wait till we try to send them back
Also it simply doesn't cost that much to achieve it.. this is just throwing money at contactors and lining the pockets of investors. They need some serious revision of the way they make contracts. Also vertically integrating so part of the cost is actually an investment would help a lot
Why would a sample mission be funded and carried out in the first place without the ability to bring that sample back…..why would that approach be used in the first place, who signed that off?
@@ElectricYOGIchris the idea was the sample return mission from the start. the problem was how expensive it became. also they probably figured that sealing up interesting samples before humans set foot on mars would be a good way to keep any contaminates from ruining any discoveries, even if the sample return mission was dropped later on
Do SpaceX plan to human-rate Starship for the propulsive flip landing? Because that seems ...sporty... at best, in safety terms
There's always the option to launch and recover Starship unmanned, with the astronauts getting to and from orbit on a separate vehicle...like Dragon.
Ejecto-seato cuz
@@ghost307 That would make a lot of sense
@@ghost307ah yes, 16 launches to get to the moon.. what's one more😂
@@budyeddi5814 No more launch needed.
NASA isn't sending their astronauts on the modified Starship HLS. They're using the tiny capsule that Boeing has been trying to make work. The astronauts don't get to enjoy the huge volume of HLS until they get to the moon.
Thanks!
Thanks very much David. Sorry I missed this one a few weeks back. Very much appreciated.
6:32 Cybertruck !!!
I've been concerned from the second starship launch on, that the Raptors were going through too much fuel. The booster was basically empty and this was with no payload. I'm hoping some of this may be fuel that's been intentionally dumped to reduce any accidents that could occur but it's not clear. It leads to a possible conclusion that either the engines are under performing or the needed upgrades added significant weight to the rocket. I guess we won't really know until they start carrying a noticeable payload with the Raptor 3.
Its a combination of the two really. The engines are performing at less than 100% of their capability. And the needed robustness upgrades added significant weight which has a huge impact on pay load. However, future iterations of starship will Begin to delete mass and save weight once the starship system is working as intended.
The main cause of the payload reduction is Raptor's specific impulse being about 8% less than specified, as estimated from the flight data. It's a big difference, and it would be nice to know why. There are probably several root causes. My guess is that one of them may be: they have had to change the fuel/oxidizer ratio further from optimum, ie using a richer mixture.
I've followed SpaceX from the very start - the Falcon 1 launch and I was always very positive about them, with Falcon 9 finally getting landings right and Falcon Heavy being simply amazing. But, I'm starting to get a get concerned, Starship is so complex, with so many moving parts and points of potential failure, and even if they all go well I still have major questions about landing on The Moon and Mars, plus solar power for the long voyages and being able to cool fuel during the trip as well. You can't argue that Starbase has become a messy jig-saw puzzle of bits and pieces as this video demonstrates. Remember, all this ground infrastructure would be needed on Mars for a return voyage. I hope, no I pray that Starship is successful, but I'm getting worried. Mars seems a bit further off every day.
Mars has lower gravity and less dense atmosphere, so for the return flight you dont need the Booster, just the fully fueled ship is enough..
I'm mostly concerned about the heat shield tiles. Wasn't that great on the space shuttle as well (expensive to maintain and many points of possible failure).