Not just Arathorn (II); the question could be asked for any of the chieftains of the Dunedain since the time of Arvedui, the last king of Arthedain. It comes down to the claim of King Arvedui for the throne of Gondor having been rejected by the Council of Gondor, making Earnur, son of Earnil, the thirty-third king of Gondor. Until the accomplishments of Aragorn II the Dunedain of the North would have been seen as usurpers.
I know that's the 'reason', but who has Gondor got by Arathorn's time that has a closer line of descent than him? No one. So if he has the stongest remaining claim, and there is NO current king, he CAN'T be an Usurper. They just didn't want a 'foreigner' in charge!
@@DraconimLt If Arathorn II, or any previous chieftain of the Dunedain had laid claim to the throne of Gondor he would have encountered much resistance up to and including civil war. For this same reason, Aragorn II could not have put forth his claim prior to the War of the Ring. The Council of Gondor was content with the rule of the stewards.
@@otaku-sempai2197 I know, that's what I said, 'they just DIDN'T WANT A FOREIGNER IN CHARGE' kinda implies resistance to any of them putting their claim forward doesn't it? All I'm saying is he had the strongest claim, and couldn't be an USURPER, an usurper is someone who takes power with a lesser claim than the rightful heir or no claim at all. The chieftains of the Dunedain had the best claim, they just had no support.
I just love How all of them are fostered by Elrond. Like for one Part it is so moving that Elrond can Watch over and meet tiny parts of his Brother via his descendants. On the other hand, it is so much comedic potential, because you simply know that Elladan and Elrohir will do pranks.
I suspect for Aragorn and the other Chieftains, it was not always easy in House of Elrond. Elrond and those of his house spent decades preparing and teaching Aragorn.
@@johnfleet235 i find the fact that a child version of his father. Grandfather and great grandfather. All new Arwen the same way he knows her quit strange.
That fan film Born of Hope was absolutely fantastic. For not being studio made everything about it seemed in line with the story and a great tribute to the Jackson movies as well as the books
Every few months I binge watch the LOTR trilogy. I always begin it with Born Of Hope. It was very well done with such a small budget and I highly recommend watching it if you haven't yet
Arathorn could not claim the kingship of Gondor. Isildur's Bane needed to be found before the Kinship could be restored. Arathorn was dead for some years before Bilbo found the One Ring. By this point the Music of the Ainur had ended. Neither Sauron nor the Valar had any ideas on what lay ahead. The were playing the game of Illuvatar.
I watched Born of Hope several months ago. I liked it and think it is one of the best fan films about a Middle Earth theme. I look forward to more of this kind.
Aragorn lead both the men of Rohan and Gondor in major military victories and he was well liked by denethors father and the men he lead. IT isso weird that he would just leave all of that behind and go to wonder in the wilderness.
Born of Hope was really amazing, considering its budget. Imagine what could be done with that story with a New Line Cinema budget. Born of Hope is worthy of theatrical release, licensing aside.
I watched Born of Hope when it first came out and I enjoyed it. Even though it did not have a PJ budget it still conveyed the story in a believable manner. Keep up the good work chaps!
I do believe that Aranarth son of Arvedui should have the right to claim the throne of Gondor after Earnur death for he was the only remaining member of House of Anarion through his mother Firiel.
Good explanation also I’d like to add that perhaps the reason why the chieftains before Arathorn and Arathorn himself chose not to claim the throne of Gondor was due to perhaps foresighted visions they saw or were told of their destinies and also maybe because they all trusted the stewards of Gondor to rule until a worthy king ascended the throne.
We can ask this question not only of Arathorn, but also of all the descendants of Isildur after the fall of Arnor. The main thing here is the arrival of the promised, and it has prophetic manifestations. (I think the Music of the Ainur is a melody woven into it.) In this respect, Aragorn is like the Jesus Christ archetype in Christian theology.
What? Gandalf is more like Jesus - a pre-existent being who takes on a humble-looking human role, dies, and is resurrected to save people. I don't recall Jesus in his story having a broken sword reforged and using it for military victories.
@@Cat_Woods Many honorary titles associated with Christ are also attributed to the character Aragorn. For example, being a healer. Aragorn is a critical milestone in accomplishing this mission, on the way to ensure human dominance over Arda, the ultimate vision of Eru, the god of Tolkien mythology.
@@TarMody Interesting. I thought Christians like him were rather attached to there only being one person. But then he was more flexible in his mythology than he would have been with his faith.
Thank you Broken sword ,because even though it has been a long-time (maybe a year ?)since I watched your videos I'm glad that you're continuing to make videos on the topic.
Could the ability of foresight amongst some of the Dunedain be a remnant power of that of the Numenorean Kings of whom some had possessed the ability themselves such as Tar- Palantir?
I think Peter Jackson should have added a 5th hour to ROTK at the end, showing the Gondor Council of Elders debating and politicking whether to crown Aragorn King.
Everyone has a destiny and Arathorn's destiny was to be the father of the one, whom would bring hope to men and become the first king of the reunited kingdoms. Nothing more and nothing less than that was his fate.
The only difference between the book and the film is that Arathorn is shot in the chest with an arrow and then has another arrow stabbed in the eye by an orc, compared to the book, where he is shot in the eye.
Because of the relavence of Narsil in Numanorian folklore I always assumed that the one could only become king if he weilded the reforged shards of Narsil almost as a ceremonial or symbolic trope. Narsil could only be reforged by the elves (because they onlne had the shards) so in having the sword reforged this would be proof to the people that he was worthy of being king. Arathorn never sought the shards and was never offered them and so would never become king.
The kingship of Gondor wasn't just up for them to claim. The Stewards and people of Gondor wouldn't recognize a king that wasn't of Anarion's line. Aragorn was from Isildur's line. He ultimately became king because he earned it. Not so much because he was rightfully so.
But both royal lines were reunited within Aragorn's line when one of the previous Chieftains married a woman who was part of the royal house in Gondor. It's in the appendices, but I can't at the moment remember exactly where.
@@grossepointemichigan The last king of Arnor-Arvedui married Firiel daughter of King Ondoher of Gondor. Therefore the lines of Isildur and Anarion were combined and the Chieftains of the North were their descendants.
@@America_is_now_Mexico2.0 I don't think Tolkien ever gave the life span of Eldarion. I imagine he had a very healthy later-Númenorean-ish life span, though, since he was approximately half-elven (Arwen was 3/4 elf).
Why do so many artists depict the descendants of Elros having beards? Tolkien himself said something to the effect that greater height, longevity and beardlessness were the most enduring traits of the descendants of the half elven and faded very slowly.
@@arc7375 Elros (Elrond's brother and Aragorn's great-great-great-grandfather) chose to be human. Besides, his line married with humans anyway (Numenoreans and their descendents are humans, after all).
Can you imagine a total stranger who's ancestor 1000 years ago happened to be king claims the throne in your country? Unless you some kind of hero it's likely not going to work no matter what proof you have. In my mind isn't it more interesting why the stewards or the prince of Dol Amroth never made a claim to the throne. I would think they would have a bigger chance (before Aragorn showed up).
Not just Arathorn (II); the question could be asked for any of the chieftains of the Dunedain since the time of Arvedui, the last king of Arthedain. It comes down to the claim of King Arvedui for the throne of Gondor having been rejected by the Council of Gondor, making Earnur, son of Earnil, the thirty-third king of Gondor. Until the accomplishments of Aragorn II the Dunedain of the North would have been seen as usurpers.
I know that's the 'reason', but who has Gondor got by Arathorn's time that has a closer line of descent than him? No one. So if he has the stongest remaining claim, and there is NO current king, he CAN'T be an Usurper. They just didn't want a 'foreigner' in charge!
@@DraconimLt If Arathorn II, or any previous chieftain of the Dunedain had laid claim to the throne of Gondor he would have encountered much resistance up to and including civil war. For this same reason, Aragorn II could not have put forth his claim prior to the War of the Ring. The Council of Gondor was content with the rule of the stewards.
@@otaku-sempai2197 I know, that's what I said, 'they just DIDN'T WANT A FOREIGNER IN CHARGE' kinda implies resistance to any of them putting their claim forward doesn't it?
All I'm saying is he had the strongest claim, and couldn't be an USURPER, an usurper is someone who takes power with a lesser claim than the rightful heir or no claim at all. The chieftains of the Dunedain had the best claim, they just had no support.
@@DraconimLt Batman's a scientist!
@@backwashjoe7864 ????
I just love How all of them are fostered by Elrond. Like for one Part it is so moving that Elrond can Watch over and meet tiny parts of his Brother via his descendants.
On the other hand, it is so much comedic potential, because you simply know that Elladan and Elrohir will do pranks.
I suspect for Aragorn and the other Chieftains, it was not always easy in House of Elrond. Elrond and those of his house spent decades preparing and teaching Aragorn.
@@johnfleet235 i find the fact that a child version of his father. Grandfather and great grandfather. All new Arwen the same way he knows her quit strange.
Thanks for the mention of Born of Hope, I had never heard of it, but was clearly missing out. So well done for an independent fan film!
That fan film Born of Hope was absolutely fantastic. For not being studio made everything about it seemed in line with the story and a great tribute to the Jackson movies as well as the books
Fantastic
Every few months I binge watch the LOTR trilogy. I always begin it with Born Of Hope. It was very well done with such a small budget and I highly recommend watching it if you haven't yet
And in a little while, we will have War of the Rohirrim to push in there somewhere. At the beginning or before Two Towers?
Arathorn could not claim the kingship of Gondor. Isildur's Bane needed to be found before the Kinship could be restored. Arathorn was dead for some years before Bilbo found the One Ring. By this point the Music of the Ainur had ended. Neither Sauron nor the Valar had any ideas on what lay ahead. The were playing the game of Illuvatar.
I watched Born of Hope several months ago. I liked it and think it is one of the best fan films about a Middle Earth theme. I look forward to more of this kind.
There is another Fan Film called "The Hunt For Gollum" that`s not bad.
“Horn of Gondor” is also a fan flim worth watching.
@@delichonnl7744 Yes i have seen that 3 about a year ago. Born of Hope was my favorite. Any other fan films worth watching?
@@Nagy.Patrik None have the quality of Peter Jacksons LotR (budget). Born of Hope, Horn of Gondor, Hunt for Gollum, One of the Seven.
@@delichonnl7744 thanks, never heard about one of the seven.
Aragorn lead both the men of Rohan and Gondor in major military victories and he was well liked by denethors father and the men he lead. IT isso weird that he would just leave all of that behind and go to wonder in the wilderness.
Born of Hope was really amazing, considering its budget. Imagine what could be done with that story with a New Line Cinema budget. Born of Hope is worthy of theatrical release, licensing aside.
I watched Born of Hope when it first came out and I enjoyed it. Even though it did not have a PJ budget it still conveyed the story in a believable manner. Keep up the good work chaps!
I do believe that Aranarth son of Arvedui should have the right to claim the throne of Gondor after Earnur death for he was the only remaining member of House of Anarion through his mother Firiel.
Not seeking power shows he deserved it. That is a Kingly trait. To have earned it.
Born of Hope was impressive. Just shows what you can do when you have knowledge and a passion for the source material - looking at you ROP.
Born of Hope was fantastic, definitely recommended. Great video as usual!
"I'm your king."
"Well I didn't vote for you"
I get that reference!
If I ran around claiming I was an emperor because some moistened bit lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government
Good explanation also I’d like to add that perhaps the reason why the chieftains before Arathorn and Arathorn himself chose not to claim the throne of Gondor was due to perhaps foresighted visions they saw or were told of their destinies and also maybe because they all trusted the stewards of Gondor to rule until a worthy king ascended the throne.
Great video once again. I am still shocked (in a good way) that the Tolkien Estate has not had a crack down on Born of Hope...
Because Kate Madison had an agreement with New Line Cinema.
Born of hope is a beautiful love letter to tokien
We can ask this question not only of Arathorn, but also of all the descendants of Isildur after the fall of Arnor. The main thing here is the arrival of the promised, and it has prophetic manifestations. (I think the Music of the Ainur is a melody woven into it.) In this respect, Aragorn is like the Jesus Christ archetype in Christian theology.
What? Gandalf is more like Jesus - a pre-existent being who takes on a humble-looking human role, dies, and is resurrected to save people. I don't recall Jesus in his story having a broken sword reforged and using it for military victories.
@@Cat_Woods Many honorary titles associated with Christ are also attributed to the character Aragorn. For example, being a healer. Aragorn is a critical milestone in accomplishing this mission, on the way to ensure human dominance over Arda, the ultimate vision of Eru, the god of Tolkien mythology.
@@TarMody Do you mean you think Tolkien intended the Jesus parallel for Aragorn as well as Gandalf?
@@Cat_Woods Partially
@@TarMody Interesting. I thought Christians like him were rather attached to there only being one person. But then he was more flexible in his mythology than he would have been with his faith.
Thank you Broken sword ,because even though it has been a long-time (maybe a year ?)since I watched your videos I'm glad that you're continuing to make videos on the topic.
I watched Born of Hope recently and it was a solid film.
I actually liked the film tbh and can’t wait to watch your short film ✌️
I thought Born of Hope was pretty well done as a fan film. I especially like the song at the end.
Even denethor said he won't bow to the ranger from the north
Could the ability of foresight amongst some of the Dunedain be a remnant power of that of the Numenorean Kings of whom some had possessed the ability themselves such as Tar- Palantir?
What if arthedui became king of Gondor
Nice work dude thanks
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Watched born of hope i thought it was really good
I really liked Born Of Hope
I believe the same people that made "Born of Hope" also made "The Hunt for Gollum".
I think Peter Jackson should have added a 5th hour to ROTK at the end, showing the Gondor Council of Elders debating and politicking whether to crown Aragorn King.
read the books he was chosen by his own people and Faramir asked them if they would have him as King and they all said yes
Thanks!
Thank you so much 💚
@@TheBrokenSword - You are welcome- thanks for the great video story.
Everyone has a destiny and Arathorn's destiny was to be the father of the one, whom would bring hope to men and become the first king of the reunited kingdoms. Nothing more and nothing less than that was his fate.
Never heard of it, considering the litigious nature of the Tolkien estate I'm legitimately surprised it got to exist.
Good question.
If possible can you do a video on how gandalf kept radagasts staff after the hobbit and until his regeneration in the lord of the rings???
please do a wat if the balrog had managed to pass video
Funny that all those images have the chieftains with beards. The elven gene is highly dominant regarding that.
I enjoyed born of hope
That image of Dirhael is actually from Game of Thrones season 1 and the character of Jory Cassel, not Dirhael. Great video otherwise!
Больше всего мне нравится начало их трудно го но очень увлекательного путешествия с проводником и следопытом таинственным и серьезным Араторном
What if EÄRNIL EÄRNUR where slain in Harad in the south
What if un Goliant killed melkor the 7 balrogs in lamoth in the first Age
Yeah, why?
Honestly, I would rather watch, aA New Hope, or The Hunt For Gollum than the overblown Hobbit trilogy.
The only difference between the book and the film is that Arathorn is shot in the chest with an arrow and then has another arrow stabbed in the eye by an orc, compared to the book, where he is shot in the eye.
Who ruled the Dunedain as regent until Estel came of age?
How did the line be remade if islidur passed and did not have a son
I love that fan film! They actually show Elrond’s sons!
Arathorn is basically making a more kind, glorious version of Macbeth.
How long did Aragorn's son live?
Because of the relavence of Narsil in Numanorian folklore I always assumed that the one could only become king if he weilded the reforged shards of Narsil almost as a ceremonial or symbolic trope.
Narsil could only be reforged by the elves (because they onlne had the shards) so in having the sword reforged this would be proof to the people that he was worthy of being king.
Arathorn never sought the shards and was never offered them and so would never become king.
That's in the movie, not in the book. Elrond gave him the shards of Narsil when Aragorn was 20 years old.
@@grossepointemichigan i realise that, but he could have sought out Arathorn before his death and presented in the reforged Narsil.
@@liamfowell8661 Sorry, my error. I thought you had said Aragorn, but you wrote Arathorn. My bad!
@@grossepointemichigan ha! no problem man, no apology necessary!
Born of Hope is better than the rings of power series
The kingship of Gondor wasn't just up for them to claim. The Stewards and people of Gondor wouldn't recognize a king that wasn't of Anarion's line. Aragorn was from Isildur's line. He ultimately became king because he earned it. Not so much because he was rightfully so.
But both royal lines were reunited within Aragorn's line when one of the previous Chieftains married a woman who was part of the royal house in Gondor. It's in the appendices, but I can't at the moment remember exactly where.
@@grossepointemichigan The last king of Arnor-Arvedui married Firiel daughter of King Ondoher of Gondor. Therefore the lines of Isildur and Anarion were combined and the Chieftains of the North were their descendants.
@@johnfleet235 Thank you for the refresher! I knew I'd get something wrong if I tried to do it off the top of my head!
😅That's jorry cassel
How did the elves know that the one ring had to be cast into the tires of mount doom to destroy it?
Was there ever a son born from aragorn? Did his line after he passed?
Eldarion was Aragorn's son.
Thanks man Ihad no idea. Did he have the long lifeline of his father? I mean considering he’s half elf as well.
@@America_is_now_Mexico2.0 I don't think Tolkien ever gave the life span of Eldarion. I imagine he had a very healthy later-Númenorean-ish life span, though, since he was approximately half-elven (Arwen was 3/4 elf).
Why do so many artists depict the descendants of Elros having beards? Tolkien himself said something to the effect that greater height, longevity and beardlessness were the most enduring traits of the descendants of the half elven and faded very slowly.
👍👍
Video 256
😍😍😍
Skill issue
Nice to see you guys here 😁
@@TheBrokenSword Thanks for making these videos!
Heeee Kings and generals
Why are all of Aragorn’s line depicted with beards? They have Elvish lineage. They shouldn’t be able to grow any facial hair at all.
Elves can have beards.
@@jameshoffa7085Only Ciardan as far as I know. And he’s possibly the single oldest Elf in Arda.
@@arc7375 Elros (Elrond's brother and Aragorn's great-great-great-grandfather) chose to be human. Besides, his line married with humans anyway (Numenoreans and their descendents are humans, after all).
@@mateuszslawinski1990 But Prince Imrahil didn't have a beard.
@@robertstewart239 Maybe he was just clean shaved?
Hard to be King with an arrow in Your eye😜
Can you imagine a total stranger who's ancestor 1000 years ago happened to be king claims the throne in your country? Unless you some kind of hero it's likely not going to work no matter what proof you have. In my mind isn't it more interesting why the stewards or the prince of Dol Amroth never made a claim to the throne. I would think they would have a bigger chance (before Aragorn showed up).
I assumed he was dead
Wrong timing lol
What if isildur destroyed the one Ring
A very boring trilogy.
They did not have hobbits
Because he is not king Arthur lol
Get Disney to make The Lord of the Rings: A New Hope
hsa
So In short Arathorn…… kinda sucks in battle
Too much love of lineage: Ode to that one Royal Load.